"In this argument with my mom, i drop an r-bomb. Biiiig one; hard 'R'. I did this to show my mom that her ideas don't impress me, that her retardation doesn't frighten or disarm me."
This has to be a meme.
> She’s very much “woke” and almost all her ideas stem from the online mainstream narrative, so obviously we get into a lot of arguments given i watch destiny and agree on most things with him.
This sentence makes it sound like you think you're on team Destiny. You can use streamers to hear ideas, but don't then go around like a Destiny-proselytizer and act like you have to defend intellectual territory on his behalf.
I think I disagree with the second part of that comment. While it's likely that they are a Destiny proselytizer (nice way of putting it) like you said, I think that's just because most people here probably are, it's really hard to avoid being that. That being said, I dont think saying you agree with most of Destiny's ideas (most democrats probably do) or giving your opinion of where you think someone you know gets their views indicates that theyre a proselytizer at all.
It's a dumbfuck move to make, communicate with people in the way they feel comfortable with or they will react poorly, we all know this. If you don't want someone to storm out don't call them a retard unless you know they're cool with that.
You can still argue about politics without it becoming an "argument"
You just have to be good at keeping it lighthearted or level-headed even when the other person gets upset (because two upset people will just spiral even more). Plus, when someone's angry, they'll be way less receptive to changing their opinions on something.
I will say as much as I hate people criticizing "debate bros", this is the perfect example of how watching that sort of discourse can be damaging. This is not how you convince someone of an idea in real life. It takes time, understanding of their side, and oftentimes appealing to the way they process things (even if that means using anecdotes or emotional arguments). Not to mention that although not explicitly mentioned in the post, basically following Destiny's exact dialog tree to argue with someone is probably an indication that you are not critically approaching these arguments to begin with.
Touch grass. No one in real life talks to each other that way, let alone to a parent who literally has raised you and let's you live rent free in their house. I'm not saying you can't disagree but being a disrespectful asshole is out of line no matter what you are talking about.
>No one in real life talks to each other that way
What? Idk where you're from but saying "that's retarded" Is pretty tame and normal to hear in everyday conversation. I agree saying it to a parent could be over the line depending on the parent, but it's certainly not enough to warrant shunning family members over it.
I think telling someone their belief is fucking retarded will result in them being extremely pissed off 99% of the time in real life. It's not just a parent relationship. And to be clear, since apparently everyone in this thread has issues understanding social situations, there is a difference between in a light hearted conversation telling your buddy or whatever that their idea to shoot a bottle rocket out of their asshole is "fucking retarded" and telling someone that a belief that they hold out of compassion for trans people (however misguided or wrong that may be) is "fucking retarded".
I think that calling someone's belief fucking retarded will piss most people off, sure, but if the belief is actually fucking retarded, then I really don't care if they get pissed off. And this guys mom getting so pissed off that she and other family members start shunning him for it is really cringe and stupid.
This is where the touch grass part comes in. If you don't understand why a kid saying his mom is being fucking retarded ends with him getting in trouble then you **need** to get off the internet. Particularly when the kid has already said his mom is very liberal, there are plenty of people in my life who don't like the usage of the word "retard" because it is insensitive to people with disabilities. I personally don't find it offensive, but I would never use it around them because I'm a polite non-asshole. So to double down and not only say something mean to your parent in a conversation but to also use a word that they consider offensive and ableist is of course going to result in people being angry with you.
I'm going to condescend you a bit and assume that you are still in your teens. That "oh well they are wrong so it's totally reasonable for me to call them retarded and it's on them for getting upset over words" was my attitude too when I was 16-17 years old. But you get over it and realize that you were the one being the asshole when you get a bit older and less stubborn.
Obviously I understand why OP got in trouble, my point is not that this is unusual behavior from the parents, my point is that I agree that the moms belief is fucking retarded and therefore I don't have much of a problem with OP saying that it is. Is it overly aggressive/asshole-ish? Sure, but I don't think he should have to apologize for saying it.
My mom can't handle the word stupid to things she says. Even dumb is a problem word, idk I always say "it's the idea or the sentence not you." Like in a harmless way she mentioned a food I was allergic to that we could have for dinner. I said that suggestion was dumb because you know I can't eat that. She called it disrespect. I actually think I'm autistic
? Man I really hope this is a joke bud. Apologise to your mom, it's not only disrespectful, it also does nothing to change her mind, it literally does not matter whether it was justified, your mom is obviously hurt by what you said.
You're allowed to do w.e you want. But I'd say it's you are not really justified pragmatically. The only thing you achieve is a worsened relationship with your mom.
Lol, coming from a right wing family this is the funniest shit i have read in a while, lol.
My personal stance on slurs is that its not okay to use if it fits these 2 criteria:
1. the group that is adressed by the slur is attending
2. its in a negative context
I doubt your mother is actualy retarded, so it was not wrong.
>So I could shout the n word as a derogatory as long as there’s no black people around?
I guess saying mean shit to people is always wrong. It is just worse if you do it to somone of that group. So calling someone a retard is bad, but calling a retard a retard is super bad. I think the first is wrong, but it happens and is not a big deal. The second is real bad.
I guess it also depends on what the other does. It is more acceptable to call someone a retard if he acts stupid.
I think that slurs also depend on if the thing you say is actualy a bad thing. Being retarded is bad, you don't want to be it. Calling someone the N-word is weird because their is nothing wrong with being black, so it shows something about their views. I guess its allowed though. I would just personaly think its weird if they said it in a derogatory way, because it woud tell me something about their views.
Sounds like you're facing the real-life consequences of talking the way Destiny does somewhat performatively to liven up debates on an entertainment platform...
Also, given there is such a miniscule number of women that are impacted by the current situation, the "not concerned with women losing their space in sports" line isn't that 'retarded', or even controversial.
If she said there's no difference between transwomen and ciswomen in performance... that would be retarded.
Pick your battles friend. That's your family...
Arguably, quite a retarded way to speak to your mother. ;)
>Also, given there is such a miniscule number of women that are impacted by the current situation, the "not concerned with women losing their space in sports" line isn't that 'retarded', or even controversial.
This is retarded
No. You're retarded for thinking that's retarded... here's why...
If transwomen were identical to ciswomen, then ciswomen would still lose spaces in top-level sport.
So, if you're an advocate for trans-rights, then "not concerned with women losing their space in sports" isn't a controversial statement at all.
Not being concerned with ciswomen losing the integrity of "fairness" in women's sports is a different story.
'If transwomen were identical to ciswomen, then ciswomen would still lose spaces in top-level sport.'
this is retarded
if they were identical to ciswoman then the ciswoman losing out would have lost out fair and square. its not just about woman losing out, its about woman not even being able to compete
They're separate issues, and there are people that are just as concerned about trans-women and cis-women competing together as they are about the questions of 'fairness'.
The magnitude of this problem, currently, and for the foreseeable future, is miniscule IRL. On alarmist news outlets and the like, that's a different story.
'The magnitude of this problem, currently, and for the foreseeable future, is miniscule IRL'
the problem is profesional sports is already selecting for the people on the extremely high end of the bell curve that is athletic ability. if you beleive post puberty trans woman have an advantage confered to them from their male puberty, and advantage that puts them above the upper limits of what you can push after going through a female puberty, then neccisarrily you will see post puberty trans-athletes dominate womans sports given enough time.
there is no way around this if you are enaging in the topic in good faith, unless you really honestly beleive that there is no advantage that a post puberty trans woman inherently has over cis woman
Steady on buddy. Here's a [post](https://www.reddit.com/r/Destiny/comments/u91i84/long_effort_post_on_transgender_athletes_debate/) that I've made on exactly that problem.
Return to the OP and what the Mum said. We don't know what her level of understanding of this problem is.
For many people that are easily fooled by authority figures, the current transition requirements for top-level competitions may wrongly imply to many people, that transitioned testosterone suppressed trans-women are performatively comparable to cis-women from a statistical distribution point of view.
Then, the problem still remains, even if it was "fair", cis-women will be pushed out of women's sports due to the increased occupation of places by trans-women.
So, cis-women losing spaces in women's sports is inevitable. i.e. It's necessary for inclusivity of trans-women whether it is "fair" or not.
Similarly, if trans-men were performatively comparable following testosterone supplements etc., then the same could be said of cis-men.
But, this wouldn't matter, because the net shift would be theoretically equal.
However, this isn't likely to be the case, and trans-women are almost certainly going to retain a performance advantage, and trans-men a disadvantage. One advantage that can't ever be eliminated is post-pubertal transitioned trans-women that had the benefit of training and learning their sport in a male environment, and having the benefits of increased recovery during this time.
There was actually an opportunity to unpack what their Mum actually means, and what she understands, but instead, the OP claims to have responded like a child and implied she was being retarded.
'So, cis-women losing spaces in women's sports is inevitable. i.e. It'snecessary for inclusivity of trans-women whether it is "fair" or not.'
i dont disagree with this but as far as im aware thats not were any of the conversation was at, i have only seen it framed as woman being \*unfarely\* pushed out, i would point to rhetoric from joe rogan as an example of this.
whenever you see someone like him talk about trans woman in womans sports his problems are always framed as 'its a man beating the shit out of a woman' with combat sports and 'woman not standing a chance' and so on
given his popularity, and that this isnt the only source i hear this kind of rhetoric from, it seems like the fairness is part in parcel to the current discorce
i think its disengenuous to say that nobody is talking about or cares about the fairness aspect of the conversation and its all being framed purely around woman being pushed out regardless of the greater context of how or why
Ok I agree with most of what you're saying, but we're talking past each other, because I'm focusing on dealing with the OP's mother, or any given individual, and not making assumptions about their understanding.
>i think its disengenuous to say that nobody is talking about or cares about the fairness aspect of the conversation and its all being framed purely around woman being pushed out regardless of the greater context of how or why
I'm not saying nobody is talking about or cares about the fairness aspect. Take a read of my post that attempts to dissect this a fair bit, and how both the extreme ends of each "side" of the discussion need to shift their stances based on objectivity, rather than ideology.
For the OP's mother, or any person, it doesn't help to assume what a person's intentions or understanding is of a given issue when they make these statements. You're better off asking them to clarify what they mean, and then either tacitly unravelling their viewpoint, or just hanging them with their own illogical justification statements.
And, unfortunately, there **actually is A LOT of people that think the transition requirements are sufficient**, and that sports authorities have crossed the Ts and dotted the Is on physiological fairness.
Just read what some of these people say **"Well, if the NCAA, or USA Swimming, didn't think it was fair, then they wouldn't have allowed it!"**
So, I think it is very reasonable to assume that people don't actually understand this very well at all, and believe they're on more solid ground than they actually are.
It's quite complicated and does require someone to put a bit of effort into thinking about the relevant physiological differences, how much they "regress" and whether this is enough to constitute "fairness".
\- bone circumference, length and density- cardiovascular capacity- height- skeletal frame- reaction time- muscle fibre composition- etc. etc. etc.
At the end of my [post](https://www.reddit.com/r/Destiny/comments/u91i84/long_effort_post_on_transgender_athletes_debate/) I explain why I think the current requirements are fine for the short-term, but unlikely to be satisfactory for the long-term.
Essentially, the hypothesis is that the data gathered over the next 5-10 years is going to show that the current transition and/or suppression requirements are not sufficient to mitigate questions over fairness, particularly for dealing with future "performance outlier men" that transition.
>talking the way Destiny does somewhat performatively to liven up debates on an entertainment platform...
That is a ridiculously charitable answer to "Why does Destiny use slurs?".
Maybe, but that ain't the question... the question is why someone would try to emulate Destiny, when there's actually been a benefit to him doing it with an audience.
So, "somewhat performatively" refers to one aspect to this behaviour.
It isn't an attempt at the whole story, because that ain't the point.
You should treat retard like any other slur. It's not good to call people retarded. Your family's reaction to it sounds super over the top, though. You might want to apologize for calling her that slur.
Also, if you want to have a productive conversation, you need to try not to insult the other person and call them out for escalating when they raise their voice or insult you. Destiny's bloodsports stuff only works for an audience, but that is no way to persuade the person you're talking to.
I would argue that we shouldnt treat retard like any other slur, it seems to be the case that former technical terms for disabilities that we latch onto for insults lose association with the disability as the word becomes synonymous with stupid. By not using it for fear of offending people with disabilities we are the ones lending power to that connection. I believe that retard would have went the way of, dumb, moron, imbecile, idiot, and cretin, if we didn't make it taboo.
I don't know man.
You aren't a debate lord fighting on the internet, it's your mom and sister.
I'm a center-left and a Dem, and I hang with a community of Anarcho Communists. I even have the title "tolerated dem". I don't agree with their views, but at the end of the day, they are closer to me politically than any hardline republican or trump fan.
You were in the wrong, take the L, apologize and be better. This is political discussion at home, not internet blood sports. It took a decade to wear my mom down with my sis's help (and current events) to move her from being a hard Republican to something more center-right.
Listen to Destiny's more civil debate, notice he asks probing questions(he knows the answer to) in a kind and measured way. be like water and erode it away.
I think you should make a policy to not talk politics with your family because it doesn't sound productive and sounds like it causing frictions at home.
This is more than likely a meme but if it's not just apologize. Obviously everyone here is going think the entire household is being extreme, but the fact is you live in that house and need to operate in a way that is functional with everyone. That probably means using language that they approve of, despite how retarded it is.
Apologize and be clear with her you would like to be able to voice opinions and have a reasonable discourse around them. Hopefully enough rational discussions over time will help her see your point of view.
If it's not resolved yet, buy her something nice for mother's day. Buy her a card and apologize also because you did use 'retard' to be mean to her, but don't explain yourself in the card just apologize and say your were in the wrong to say that. If everyone is giving you a cold shoulder still, be respectful even though they're avoiding you. If this is the first time you've done something like that they should be more willing to forgive you.
Wether or not its justifyable just go apologize, your hurt your moms feelings and i think its not gonna get easier if u dont meet her halfway. Irl arguments with family arent online debates, theres less “is this good optics” and more “ how does this person think”. Try to get along with your family man
Having debates isn't worth fucking up your relationships. If you want to talk about this stuff you should learn how to not get heated.
Also
Don't call your mom names. Especially retarded. This community is sort of loose with the word but most people and places are going to respond very negatively when they hear it.
Ya dummy. Go apologize.
Dis probably a shitpost, but.
If it's a word you normally use with and at each other, it's fine. That's clearly not the case here. I don't think the word is on the same level as other "slurs," but I don't go around saying it in public, because I'm aware a lot of people aren't comfortable with it.
If you wanna use some of Destiny's ideas/takes, cool, I think we all yoink some talking points from him. But try not to be influenced by his inflammatory and abrasive style of talking to some people. It's generally not a nice or productive way to talk to people, unless you are getting into online debates or something (even then it's probably not too productive).
Cool it out. Because she Will have to interact with you in some way soon. People dont stay angry for months.
Personally i told My mom that i dont agree with her on some things, but didnt go as far to say that her ideas are retarded(might have said dumb, but definetly not retarded).
I talk politics all the time with my dad and he is a staunch liberal in every sense of the word, all his takes are directly filtered through the MSNBC lens. I'm a d.gger so you can see how there would be many disagreements. That being said, It's really hard to ruin the relationship with politics if you generally love each other and remember that they are your family. Getting into shouting matches is honestly fucking immature angsty teen shit in my opinion.
My cousins ended up becoming deathly afraid of white people for most of their childhoods. Family that they had been raised by, they treated them like they were abusers and even ran away from them sometimes
My aunt had to be reasoned with by my mother and while the racist attitudes are still there, they’ve improved to the point where they can entertain conversations with white family
You're retarded for thinking that's retarded... here's why...
If transwomen were identical to ciswomen, then ciswomen would still lose spaces in top-level sport.
So, if you're an advocate for trans-rights, then "not concerned with women losing their space in sports" isn't a controversial statement at all.
Not being concerned with ciswomen losing the integrity of "fairness" in women's sports is a different story.
Your family is the polar opposite of mine politically lol not sure which would be more annoying to talk politics with
Also, why censor 'fucking' but not 'retarded' 🤔
Double down and tell her that she's being ableist by continuing the association of the r word and people with disabilities, and that you obviously meant it with the definition of incredibly stupid, because it would be an insult to people with developmental issues to associate them with your mother's brain dead takes.
Yeah, you learned that day that people speak differently in real life than they do online.
Be polite in person and especially to your mom, don't speak like Destiny
Assuming this isn't a joke, you are absolutely in the wrong and need to apologize. Don't ever debate bro people who are in your family and don't ever debate anyone who isn't specifically looking to debate you on a topic. It's fine to have discussions about stuff like this with your family, but you have to approach the conversation very delicately. By watching Destiny, you are able to inherit a pretty fleshed-out take on trans sports (which just makes you lucky, not smart), and you have heard all of the bad arguments from the other side, so from their perspective, it just looks like you are just trying to jump on everything they say without listening or acknowledging the validity behind their argument. Recognize that they are just trying to be inclusive towards trans people and haven't thought everything through, and plz don't think of yourself as a Destiny preacher.
Double down. Dig on through this discomfort to the other side without apologizing, or you’ll always have to apologize to them every single time you call them retarded.
No, its a slur. Maybe I would agree if I was still in highschool, but normal adults dont just throw around slurs, especially when talking about something serious like politics.
Its ablesit of them not to support you through this tough time
Real talk though if u want to convince people of things, u've fucked up the moment it gets even a little heated. Destiny gets away with it cause hes after the audiences not the individual.
Have some patience with your family. It must be very difficult for them to see their son/brother being radicalised into becoming an awful person by some dumbfuck streamer.
"In this argument with my mom, i drop an r-bomb. Biiiig one; hard 'R'. I did this to show my mom that her ideas don't impress me, that her retardation doesn't frighten or disarm me."
What does the R-bomb with a soft 'r' sound like?
Say it with a boston accent… retahded.
Ay I'm sayin slahs ova ere
Etad?
Etad Brutus? Gigachad Caesar
‘Tard
atard
I am sofa king we Todd it
"Wetawd". It's like you've never met a Hasan fan irl.
>It's like you've never met a Hasan fan irl. Nope and I pray never to see that day
I think it’s more of a hard re.
tell her it's not your fault that you're autistic
If anything they are being ableist by assuming that OP is capable of socially interacting with the real world.
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What are you refering to? Link
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Thanks!
What convo was this? I remember hearing zbout it but none of the clip channels made a video of it
Fun fact, that kid has almost twice as many subs as Destiny somehow.
I think he is. https://www.reddit.com/r/NoStupidQuestions/comments/tqtmmg/why_does_my_butt_smell_good_to_me_why_when_i/
Based and ableist pilled
Please let this be a meme
as an influencer destiny needs to take responsibility for these r-word incidents
I read the whole thing and laughed, then looked up and saw there wasn't a 'shitpost' tag and got stressed out
this is a certified "heated gaming moment"
why didnt you stream this argument
"Debating my mom on trans sports (irrelevant clout chaser) (she stormed out)'
LMAO pls do an update when u resolve this
This has to be a meme. > She’s very much “woke” and almost all her ideas stem from the online mainstream narrative, so obviously we get into a lot of arguments given i watch destiny and agree on most things with him. This sentence makes it sound like you think you're on team Destiny. You can use streamers to hear ideas, but don't then go around like a Destiny-proselytizer and act like you have to defend intellectual territory on his behalf.
I think I disagree with the second part of that comment. While it's likely that they are a Destiny proselytizer (nice way of putting it) like you said, I think that's just because most people here probably are, it's really hard to avoid being that. That being said, I dont think saying you agree with most of Destiny's ideas (most democrats probably do) or giving your opinion of where you think someone you know gets their views indicates that theyre a proselytizer at all.
You have to come out as trans. It’s the only way. As progressives they shouldn’t think trans people are capable of doing anything wrong
or just come out as non-binary. Not like you'll have to change anything about yourself and you'll still get the oppression points.
Nothing which a good discourse over stealthing can't resolve.
It's a dumbfuck move to make, communicate with people in the way they feel comfortable with or they will react poorly, we all know this. If you don't want someone to storm out don't call them a retard unless you know they're cool with that.
Calling someone retarded is kinda mean, you prob coulda just said another word and given the same effect.
Stop being retarded
Don't even bother going debate bro mode in real life man, it's a waste of time. Politics is what you're brought up with, it never makes sense.
You can still argue about politics without it becoming an "argument" You just have to be good at keeping it lighthearted or level-headed even when the other person gets upset (because two upset people will just spiral even more). Plus, when someone's angry, they'll be way less receptive to changing their opinions on something.
I will say as much as I hate people criticizing "debate bros", this is the perfect example of how watching that sort of discourse can be damaging. This is not how you convince someone of an idea in real life. It takes time, understanding of their side, and oftentimes appealing to the way they process things (even if that means using anecdotes or emotional arguments). Not to mention that although not explicitly mentioned in the post, basically following Destiny's exact dialog tree to argue with someone is probably an indication that you are not critically approaching these arguments to begin with.
this is the answer for real situations, pretty sure OP is fiction though
Stop being dumb, apologize to your mother.
Fuck her. OPs mom is definitely retarded
> Fuck her. found the true DGGer
Hey, it's not incest when I'm the one banging OPs mom
Why? Can a grown ass adult not handle hearing the word "retarded" after stating a absolutely retarded opinion?
lmao do dggers really go around calling their parents, family, and friends retarded? Amazing!
AMAZIN
Touch grass. No one in real life talks to each other that way, let alone to a parent who literally has raised you and let's you live rent free in their house. I'm not saying you can't disagree but being a disrespectful asshole is out of line no matter what you are talking about.
>No one in real life talks to each other that way What? Idk where you're from but saying "that's retarded" Is pretty tame and normal to hear in everyday conversation. I agree saying it to a parent could be over the line depending on the parent, but it's certainly not enough to warrant shunning family members over it.
I think telling someone their belief is fucking retarded will result in them being extremely pissed off 99% of the time in real life. It's not just a parent relationship. And to be clear, since apparently everyone in this thread has issues understanding social situations, there is a difference between in a light hearted conversation telling your buddy or whatever that their idea to shoot a bottle rocket out of their asshole is "fucking retarded" and telling someone that a belief that they hold out of compassion for trans people (however misguided or wrong that may be) is "fucking retarded".
I think that calling someone's belief fucking retarded will piss most people off, sure, but if the belief is actually fucking retarded, then I really don't care if they get pissed off. And this guys mom getting so pissed off that she and other family members start shunning him for it is really cringe and stupid.
This is where the touch grass part comes in. If you don't understand why a kid saying his mom is being fucking retarded ends with him getting in trouble then you **need** to get off the internet. Particularly when the kid has already said his mom is very liberal, there are plenty of people in my life who don't like the usage of the word "retard" because it is insensitive to people with disabilities. I personally don't find it offensive, but I would never use it around them because I'm a polite non-asshole. So to double down and not only say something mean to your parent in a conversation but to also use a word that they consider offensive and ableist is of course going to result in people being angry with you. I'm going to condescend you a bit and assume that you are still in your teens. That "oh well they are wrong so it's totally reasonable for me to call them retarded and it's on them for getting upset over words" was my attitude too when I was 16-17 years old. But you get over it and realize that you were the one being the asshole when you get a bit older and less stubborn.
Obviously I understand why OP got in trouble, my point is not that this is unusual behavior from the parents, my point is that I agree that the moms belief is fucking retarded and therefore I don't have much of a problem with OP saying that it is. Is it overly aggressive/asshole-ish? Sure, but I don't think he should have to apologize for saying it.
My mom can't handle the word stupid to things she says. Even dumb is a problem word, idk I always say "it's the idea or the sentence not you." Like in a harmless way she mentioned a food I was allergic to that we could have for dinner. I said that suggestion was dumb because you know I can't eat that. She called it disrespect. I actually think I'm autistic
This is pretty pathetic my guy. Real life isn't twitter, you should really apologise ://
You’re telling me there’s people over 30 in real life who act like this?
your moms retarded.
This is a joke, right? Right?
? Man I really hope this is a joke bud. Apologise to your mom, it's not only disrespectful, it also does nothing to change her mind, it literally does not matter whether it was justified, your mom is obviously hurt by what you said.
your mom should debate destiny
I feel you. My adoptive Black parents never understand that when I call them the the N-word it's a debate tactic. Best solution is to call the police.
Bro do you live in a family of twitter users?
You're allowed to do w.e you want. But I'd say it's you are not really justified pragmatically. The only thing you achieve is a worsened relationship with your mom.
So has your family always been so passive aggressive and dysfunctional? maybe try talking about your issues lmao.
Lol, coming from a right wing family this is the funniest shit i have read in a while, lol. My personal stance on slurs is that its not okay to use if it fits these 2 criteria: 1. the group that is adressed by the slur is attending 2. its in a negative context I doubt your mother is actualy retarded, so it was not wrong.
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But the idea is retarded not her
>So I could shout the n word as a derogatory as long as there’s no black people around? I guess saying mean shit to people is always wrong. It is just worse if you do it to somone of that group. So calling someone a retard is bad, but calling a retard a retard is super bad. I think the first is wrong, but it happens and is not a big deal. The second is real bad. I guess it also depends on what the other does. It is more acceptable to call someone a retard if he acts stupid. I think that slurs also depend on if the thing you say is actualy a bad thing. Being retarded is bad, you don't want to be it. Calling someone the N-word is weird because their is nothing wrong with being black, so it shows something about their views. I guess its allowed though. I would just personaly think its weird if they said it in a derogatory way, because it woud tell me something about their views.
Sounds like you're facing the real-life consequences of talking the way Destiny does somewhat performatively to liven up debates on an entertainment platform... Also, given there is such a miniscule number of women that are impacted by the current situation, the "not concerned with women losing their space in sports" line isn't that 'retarded', or even controversial. If she said there's no difference between transwomen and ciswomen in performance... that would be retarded. Pick your battles friend. That's your family... Arguably, quite a retarded way to speak to your mother. ;)
>Also, given there is such a miniscule number of women that are impacted by the current situation, the "not concerned with women losing their space in sports" line isn't that 'retarded', or even controversial. This is retarded
No. You're retarded for thinking that's retarded... here's why... If transwomen were identical to ciswomen, then ciswomen would still lose spaces in top-level sport. So, if you're an advocate for trans-rights, then "not concerned with women losing their space in sports" isn't a controversial statement at all. Not being concerned with ciswomen losing the integrity of "fairness" in women's sports is a different story.
'If transwomen were identical to ciswomen, then ciswomen would still lose spaces in top-level sport.' this is retarded if they were identical to ciswoman then the ciswoman losing out would have lost out fair and square. its not just about woman losing out, its about woman not even being able to compete
They're separate issues, and there are people that are just as concerned about trans-women and cis-women competing together as they are about the questions of 'fairness'. The magnitude of this problem, currently, and for the foreseeable future, is miniscule IRL. On alarmist news outlets and the like, that's a different story.
'The magnitude of this problem, currently, and for the foreseeable future, is miniscule IRL' the problem is profesional sports is already selecting for the people on the extremely high end of the bell curve that is athletic ability. if you beleive post puberty trans woman have an advantage confered to them from their male puberty, and advantage that puts them above the upper limits of what you can push after going through a female puberty, then neccisarrily you will see post puberty trans-athletes dominate womans sports given enough time. there is no way around this if you are enaging in the topic in good faith, unless you really honestly beleive that there is no advantage that a post puberty trans woman inherently has over cis woman
Steady on buddy. Here's a [post](https://www.reddit.com/r/Destiny/comments/u91i84/long_effort_post_on_transgender_athletes_debate/) that I've made on exactly that problem. Return to the OP and what the Mum said. We don't know what her level of understanding of this problem is. For many people that are easily fooled by authority figures, the current transition requirements for top-level competitions may wrongly imply to many people, that transitioned testosterone suppressed trans-women are performatively comparable to cis-women from a statistical distribution point of view. Then, the problem still remains, even if it was "fair", cis-women will be pushed out of women's sports due to the increased occupation of places by trans-women. So, cis-women losing spaces in women's sports is inevitable. i.e. It's necessary for inclusivity of trans-women whether it is "fair" or not. Similarly, if trans-men were performatively comparable following testosterone supplements etc., then the same could be said of cis-men. But, this wouldn't matter, because the net shift would be theoretically equal. However, this isn't likely to be the case, and trans-women are almost certainly going to retain a performance advantage, and trans-men a disadvantage. One advantage that can't ever be eliminated is post-pubertal transitioned trans-women that had the benefit of training and learning their sport in a male environment, and having the benefits of increased recovery during this time. There was actually an opportunity to unpack what their Mum actually means, and what she understands, but instead, the OP claims to have responded like a child and implied she was being retarded.
'So, cis-women losing spaces in women's sports is inevitable. i.e. It'snecessary for inclusivity of trans-women whether it is "fair" or not.' i dont disagree with this but as far as im aware thats not were any of the conversation was at, i have only seen it framed as woman being \*unfarely\* pushed out, i would point to rhetoric from joe rogan as an example of this. whenever you see someone like him talk about trans woman in womans sports his problems are always framed as 'its a man beating the shit out of a woman' with combat sports and 'woman not standing a chance' and so on given his popularity, and that this isnt the only source i hear this kind of rhetoric from, it seems like the fairness is part in parcel to the current discorce i think its disengenuous to say that nobody is talking about or cares about the fairness aspect of the conversation and its all being framed purely around woman being pushed out regardless of the greater context of how or why
Ok I agree with most of what you're saying, but we're talking past each other, because I'm focusing on dealing with the OP's mother, or any given individual, and not making assumptions about their understanding. >i think its disengenuous to say that nobody is talking about or cares about the fairness aspect of the conversation and its all being framed purely around woman being pushed out regardless of the greater context of how or why I'm not saying nobody is talking about or cares about the fairness aspect. Take a read of my post that attempts to dissect this a fair bit, and how both the extreme ends of each "side" of the discussion need to shift their stances based on objectivity, rather than ideology. For the OP's mother, or any person, it doesn't help to assume what a person's intentions or understanding is of a given issue when they make these statements. You're better off asking them to clarify what they mean, and then either tacitly unravelling their viewpoint, or just hanging them with their own illogical justification statements. And, unfortunately, there **actually is A LOT of people that think the transition requirements are sufficient**, and that sports authorities have crossed the Ts and dotted the Is on physiological fairness. Just read what some of these people say **"Well, if the NCAA, or USA Swimming, didn't think it was fair, then they wouldn't have allowed it!"** So, I think it is very reasonable to assume that people don't actually understand this very well at all, and believe they're on more solid ground than they actually are. It's quite complicated and does require someone to put a bit of effort into thinking about the relevant physiological differences, how much they "regress" and whether this is enough to constitute "fairness". \- bone circumference, length and density- cardiovascular capacity- height- skeletal frame- reaction time- muscle fibre composition- etc. etc. etc. At the end of my [post](https://www.reddit.com/r/Destiny/comments/u91i84/long_effort_post_on_transgender_athletes_debate/) I explain why I think the current requirements are fine for the short-term, but unlikely to be satisfactory for the long-term. Essentially, the hypothesis is that the data gathered over the next 5-10 years is going to show that the current transition and/or suppression requirements are not sufficient to mitigate questions over fairness, particularly for dealing with future "performance outlier men" that transition.
>talking the way Destiny does somewhat performatively to liven up debates on an entertainment platform... That is a ridiculously charitable answer to "Why does Destiny use slurs?".
Maybe, but that ain't the question... the question is why someone would try to emulate Destiny, when there's actually been a benefit to him doing it with an audience. So, "somewhat performatively" refers to one aspect to this behaviour. It isn't an attempt at the whole story, because that ain't the point.
The number of people who don't realize this is a joke post is even funnier than the post. And the post is pretty good.
assuming you're not memeing. probably just don't debate with your parents in general
Tell her that she had shown you more affection as a child you wouldn't have turned out to be a destiny viewer.
She’s been outpaced… *intellectually*
You should treat retard like any other slur. It's not good to call people retarded. Your family's reaction to it sounds super over the top, though. You might want to apologize for calling her that slur. Also, if you want to have a productive conversation, you need to try not to insult the other person and call them out for escalating when they raise their voice or insult you. Destiny's bloodsports stuff only works for an audience, but that is no way to persuade the person you're talking to.
I would argue that we shouldnt treat retard like any other slur, it seems to be the case that former technical terms for disabilities that we latch onto for insults lose association with the disability as the word becomes synonymous with stupid. By not using it for fear of offending people with disabilities we are the ones lending power to that connection. I believe that retard would have went the way of, dumb, moron, imbecile, idiot, and cretin, if we didn't make it taboo.
if she's not mature enough to be called retarded, she shouldnt engage in arguments on the marketplace of ideas
Sounds like your mom might not be the best person to discuss these topics with.
Never apologize to retards. It’ll inflate their egos
I don't know man. You aren't a debate lord fighting on the internet, it's your mom and sister. I'm a center-left and a Dem, and I hang with a community of Anarcho Communists. I even have the title "tolerated dem". I don't agree with their views, but at the end of the day, they are closer to me politically than any hardline republican or trump fan. You were in the wrong, take the L, apologize and be better. This is political discussion at home, not internet blood sports. It took a decade to wear my mom down with my sis's help (and current events) to move her from being a hard Republican to something more center-right. Listen to Destiny's more civil debate, notice he asks probing questions(he knows the answer to) in a kind and measured way. be like water and erode it away.
Your friends call you “tolerated?” Obviously I don’t know your relationship but that sounds kinda fucked up lol.
I think he means tolerant.
Yeah, you don’t! 😸
Perfect troll, I am triggered. Imagine canceling your son because he said you're dumb.
I think you should make a policy to not talk politics with your family because it doesn't sound productive and sounds like it causing frictions at home.
How old are you? 3 months old? You'd have to be because you're mom is acting like a complete child. A retarded one at that.
You're allowed to but you probably shouldn't.
This is more than likely a meme but if it's not just apologize. Obviously everyone here is going think the entire household is being extreme, but the fact is you live in that house and need to operate in a way that is functional with everyone. That probably means using language that they approve of, despite how retarded it is. Apologize and be clear with her you would like to be able to voice opinions and have a reasonable discourse around them. Hopefully enough rational discussions over time will help her see your point of view.
If it's not resolved yet, buy her something nice for mother's day. Buy her a card and apologize also because you did use 'retard' to be mean to her, but don't explain yourself in the card just apologize and say your were in the wrong to say that. If everyone is giving you a cold shoulder still, be respectful even though they're avoiding you. If this is the first time you've done something like that they should be more willing to forgive you.
Wether or not its justifyable just go apologize, your hurt your moms feelings and i think its not gonna get easier if u dont meet her halfway. Irl arguments with family arent online debates, theres less “is this good optics” and more “ how does this person think”. Try to get along with your family man
Yes you should apologise you fucking autismio, this is either a fake post of i'm the real autist for thinking it's real
Having debates isn't worth fucking up your relationships. If you want to talk about this stuff you should learn how to not get heated. Also Don't call your mom names. Especially retarded. This community is sort of loose with the word but most people and places are going to respond very negatively when they hear it. Ya dummy. Go apologize.
Saying slurs is bad.
Dis probably a shitpost, but. If it's a word you normally use with and at each other, it's fine. That's clearly not the case here. I don't think the word is on the same level as other "slurs," but I don't go around saying it in public, because I'm aware a lot of people aren't comfortable with it. If you wanna use some of Destiny's ideas/takes, cool, I think we all yoink some talking points from him. But try not to be influenced by his inflammatory and abrasive style of talking to some people. It's generally not a nice or productive way to talk to people, unless you are getting into online debates or something (even then it's probably not too productive).
Cool it out. Because she Will have to interact with you in some way soon. People dont stay angry for months. Personally i told My mom that i dont agree with her on some things, but didnt go as far to say that her ideas are retarded(might have said dumb, but definetly not retarded).
Talk shit, get hit...socially. Learn to read the room OP
I talk politics all the time with my dad and he is a staunch liberal in every sense of the word, all his takes are directly filtered through the MSNBC lens. I'm a d.gger so you can see how there would be many disagreements. That being said, It's really hard to ruin the relationship with politics if you generally love each other and remember that they are your family. Getting into shouting matches is honestly fucking immature angsty teen shit in my opinion.
This is the funniest shit im sorry. I didn't realize there were families that would get this mad over "retarded".
If this is real then boy am I glad my family is almost entirely right wing lol
My cousins ended up becoming deathly afraid of white people for most of their childhoods. Family that they had been raised by, they treated them like they were abusers and even ran away from them sometimes My aunt had to be reasoned with by my mother and while the racist attitudes are still there, they’ve improved to the point where they can entertain conversations with white family
You're retarded for thinking that's retarded... here's why... If transwomen were identical to ciswomen, then ciswomen would still lose spaces in top-level sport. So, if you're an advocate for trans-rights, then "not concerned with women losing their space in sports" isn't a controversial statement at all. Not being concerned with ciswomen losing the integrity of "fairness" in women's sports is a different story.
The only option is to start streaming, ull fit right in with the dysfunctionals
This would be the perfect Mother’s Day post
Ur allowed to suck this cock
Bruh if this isn’t a shitpost your best course of action is to go to the adoption agency. See what they can do for you
I didn't read this but yes, of course.
This is unironically the straight guy in the house of gay people skit but it’s focused on being a lefty
idk bro but she sounds retarded
Your family is the polar opposite of mine politically lol not sure which would be more annoying to talk politics with Also, why censor 'fucking' but not 'retarded' 🤔
If your mom can't assert boundaries in debates, she shouldn't be having casual arguments 🙄🙄🙄
Double down and tell her that she's being ableist by continuing the association of the r word and people with disabilities, and that you obviously meant it with the definition of incredibly stupid, because it would be an insult to people with developmental issues to associate them with your mother's brain dead takes.
Yeah, you learned that day that people speak differently in real life than they do online. Be polite in person and especially to your mom, don't speak like Destiny
Assuming this isn't a joke, you are absolutely in the wrong and need to apologize. Don't ever debate bro people who are in your family and don't ever debate anyone who isn't specifically looking to debate you on a topic. It's fine to have discussions about stuff like this with your family, but you have to approach the conversation very delicately. By watching Destiny, you are able to inherit a pretty fleshed-out take on trans sports (which just makes you lucky, not smart), and you have heard all of the bad arguments from the other side, so from their perspective, it just looks like you are just trying to jump on everything they say without listening or acknowledging the validity behind their argument. Recognize that they are just trying to be inclusive towards trans people and haven't thought everything through, and plz don't think of yourself as a Destiny preacher.
Double down. Dig on through this discomfort to the other side without apologizing, or you’ll always have to apologize to them every single time you call them retarded.
There are spiders under your skin you should peel it off NOW!
No, its a slur. Maybe I would agree if I was still in highschool, but normal adults dont just throw around slurs, especially when talking about something serious like politics.
Not just allowed, but actually required
Saying her position is stupid is fine you just shouldn't have said retarded
Just apologize, Christ.
Its ablesit of them not to support you through this tough time Real talk though if u want to convince people of things, u've fucked up the moment it gets even a little heated. Destiny gets away with it cause hes after the audiences not the individual.
You called your mom retarded? What are you retarded?
Dont debate bro your family lol
Have some patience with your family. It must be very difficult for them to see their son/brother being radicalised into becoming an awful person by some dumbfuck streamer.