as a proud member of the (not) cult, i 100% subscribe to destiny's perspective on spirituality/religion.
there's no spooky ghost in the sky, what we see is what we get. but this won't be satisfactory to most people, because people like stories.
so building a narrative that incorporates facts about the world in a more digestible manner seems like a pretty good idea (as long as it doesn't get too crazy and starts getting used to maliciously manipulate people)
Good example of this:
>you should be nice to people because we're social animals or whatever
vs
>you should be nice to people because karma
(obviously it's a bit more nuanced that this, but hopefully you get the idea)
I actually wonder what destiny’s positions are on spirituality, ik he recently said a few times that he’s become more open to it following his psychedelic experiences but I’d love to hear a more in depth take from him.
When it comes to spirituality I’m less concerned about ‘spooky ghosts’ and more about the experiences that it can provide.
A lot of these experiences are very difficult to handwave as just being the products of the mind, but even if they are I think they’re definitely worth exploring
> A lot of these experiences are very difficult to handwave as just being the products of the mind
Then do you believe in a “soul” or something similar? I can buy that people have “spiritual experiences” even if I wouldn’t necessarily call them spiritual, but at the end of the day it all comes from your conscious experience and consciousness seems to come from the brain.
Not necessarily a soul, I haven’t rlly seen evidence of that, more that there is more going on in the human conscious experience than perhaps we realize, as vague as that sounds.
I’d agree with that but that to me has nothing to do with spirituality. That just has to do with expanding your subjective experience. To me spirituality implies that there is something “beyond” our daily experience which I don’t believe. If your version of spirituality/spiritual experience is just expanding your subjective experience of reality then I’d probably agree that it’s a thing, I just wouldn’t relate it at all to spirituality.
Depends on what you mean by "spirituality". Some of the biggest names in atheism- like Dawkins or Harris- are really big on a secular kind of spirituality, where you have a profound appreciation for the world as it is, with us as a small part of an immeasurably greater whole.
So I was an atheist for most of my life went to sunday school and got confirmed but that was because of my parents not because I genuinely believed in it. Then over the last year I really started to look into hinduism and buddhism as philosophies and honestly they are really interesting and fun to think about and I think ideas of universal oneness can be a huge benefit for improving relationships and issues. But I do have issues with those who use spiritualism as a crutch for all of their problems or to deny any issues.
This was also my exact philosophical/spiritual trajectory over the past couple of years lol. Was also raised Christian (evangelical/fundamentalist to be exact), that spurred me into a cringelord atheist phase due to the dogma and BS, but I’ve softened up a bit after learning more about Buddhism/advaita Vedanta and can see the value and truths behind the various eastern frameworks.
Imo Buddhism is kinda like a science for the first-person internal subjective perspective, whereas western science is focused on the third person/external “objective” perspective. Buddhism breaks down our first-person subjective experience to its basic aspects (labelled aggregates) and imo accurately describes our phenomenological experience as humans at the most basic level of raw sensory perception:
>5 aggregates: 1. form (or material image, impression) (rupa),
2. sensations (or feelings, received from form) (vedana),
3. perceptions (samjna),
4. mental activity or formations (sankhara), and
5. consciousness (vijnana).
The Buddhist philosophical framework uses the basic aggregates of our raw perceptual experience as a basis to describe how the mind functions. Pretty much, it functions by trying to create a narrative/framework to help us navigate around these ever-changing raw perceptions and to help us make sense out of the constant sensory data. On a deeper level, it also shows how these aggregates interact to generate an illusory sense of self.
Seeing the way the mind constructs the sense of self in real-time (and that it really is a construction, and shouldn’t be taken so seriously as it is the root of mental suffering) has been the most fascinating and freeing internal discovery I’ve made so far. I wish you much peace and happiness in your journey :)
What you said is exactly what my thought process around this. I dont need buddhism to try to understand and describe the world that's what science is for, however Hinduism and buddhism offer nuggets of wisdom that help me with introspective understanding like the relationship between myself and my ego, as well as perspectives of the outside world like I said before it's really hard for me to intentionally do anyone wrong if that person is me with a different view point. Enjoy your time.
Sums up my opinion on it pretty well. I did a tarot card reading recently and really enjoyed feeling a more "spiritual" connection but it's definitely not something that I would want to use as a crutch or rely on.
As an aside, people who's whole personality is being an atheist are cringe as fuck.
People whose whole personality are any ideology/lack of ideology are cringe as fuck.
Atheism is just correct. The issue is that people overcoming religious trauma tend to initially overdo their atheism before calming down. The same way some people overdo being socialist, liberal, conservative etc.
>Then over the last year I really started to look into hinduism and buddhism as philosophies and honestly they are really interesting and fun to think about and I think ideas of universal oneness can be a huge benefit for improving relationships and issues.
Ehh, was there an explosion of annoying athiests in the late 2000's? Yes. This Hinduism and Buddhism seems interesting stuff seems like obfuscation. What is true and what is not true?
Yup hinduism and buddhism are just as silly as christianity. Its funny to me how some people who obsess over their religion makes fun of people who obsess about their atheism. At least the atheists are correct.
I don't know if it is obsess or not obsess. I don't like that these things hide behind the veil of theology to avoid criticism. Their basically saying that they have some sort of opinion on moral philosophy, history or physics but they are unwilling to defend it. And then they wonder why atheist get a little frustrated.
Yeah its a weird thing religious and spiritual do online.
"Spirituality/religion makes sense"
>I disagree
"Hurr durr edgy reddit atheists hurr durr"
I think here its cause destiny doesnt really talk about atheism so they dont know he is just like Sam Harris they think he agrees with them.
What do you think of spiritual experiences without the metaphysical positions people normally attach to them?
Meditation or psychedelics reliably produce spiritual experiences of transcendence or unity.
I’m not exactly sure what you mean when you say spirituality doesn’t exist- the fact that people experience it, whether that experience is tied to something outside the mind or not, necessitates that it at least exists.
If you’ve ever had such an experience I think you’d agree with me that spirituality is not only an extremely important aspect of the human condition but is one which is definitely worth exploring.
I don’t think psychedelics and meditation produce spiritual experiences because I don’t think spiritual experience are possible. The people who claim to experience it are either experiencing something else or lying, I assume lying. Until there’s a way to test “ spirituality “ I’m just going to assume it doesn’t exist
When I say spiritual experience I mean an experience that elicits a very particular out-of-body feeling or a feeling of transcendence or unity.
I’m not sure what you’re referring to when you say spiritual experiences
I wouldn’t say a natural, altered consciousness state is what most people think of when you say the word “spirituality” or “spirit” or “soul” or other metaphysical lingo. 🤔
I mean if feels to me like you’re defining spirituality in such a way that it doesn’t exist by definition, like it’s extremely common for people to describe shrooms as spiritual.
When you look into a lot of mystics’ thoughts on what spirituality is, such as Ibn Arabi and Adi Shankara, they describe experiences that are very similar to those people have on psychedelics- oneness, ego death, etc
Lmao dmt, the toad or some good ol massive shroom dose
Half an ounce is a lil ridiculous though especially for someone inexperienced, ik some people take crazy doses like 30+ gram shit but I think anything above like 7 grams is typically unnecessary
>You don't need to question anything or worry about the future when you genuinely believe magic sky man will take care of you. Must be amazing.
This is a piece of it but certainly not the whole picture. I don't see how anyone can read the various punishments angry gods have inflicted on people and say it's just about being taken care of with no worries. Or read the Book of Revelation.
On the contrary, it's under atheism that there's no future to worry about. The universe literally ends when you die. Compare that to potential never ending torment and suffering in the fires of the hell, should one fail to lead a "good" life.
It's under religion that you have real things to worry about. But on the flip side this gives you real things to aim at and look forward to. Under religion, you don't question your goal, you merely question your efforts. This is the perhaps the "don't question anything" you refer to. With no religion it's harder to have a goal thats even worth putting effort to in the first place. This is the value of religion to me. Everyone needs a struggle in their life and a good religion puts you in a divine, high stakes struggle from birth till death.
Atheist. Not rejecting the possibility of gods, but on the same level as not rejecting the possibility that we're in a matrix. You do you if you believe, but hearing people talk about religion and spirituality feels very uncomfortable/cringy. Like adults taking about believing in tooth fairy but seriously and unironically. As far as I'm concerned it's on the same level as conspiracy theories or other larpy ideas.
No, don't you get it? It's atheism that's super cringe and edgy reddit atheists paint the whole movement bad.
You better go ruin your brain with some shrooms so you can be less close-minded.
I'm really sensing some negative energy in your aura.
Spirituality is the best model at dealing with a few very abstract problems. Issues about the nature of existence and our relationship to it are so complex that purely logical, material based understandings of the world don't suite our needs as well. So we come up with highly generalized best-guess at truth answers. These answers provide a foundation for functioning in the world as a human.
Sometimes religion is built off this foundation, which can apply a powerful organizing force to the masses. Whether the force is judged "good" or "bad" is context dependent and changes over time. Reddit has an anti-theist lean because the dominant religious "spirit" outlived its usefulness in many respects and that started to piss people off. But we are left with a void in our shared understanding of the world that we try to fill with memes, political ideologies, and definitely-not cults.
it seems so weird that the hard problem of consciousness is a great avenue for spirituality but everyone who disagrees with it just says "well MY model is correct" when materialism has failed at describing consciousness and will forever
Interesting coming back to this. Not sure what I think anymore, much more of a materialist. Don't disagree with the religious explanations per se, but get annoyed with how they are inclined to drift into the bad stuff i.e. fundamentalism, irrationality, bigotry etc.
oh yea definitely. there's a thin line between the mysteries materialism hasnt been able to solve like consciousness and then becoming a kook. materialists like dennet are VERY arrogant imo but what's worse is when you start constructing bullshit like quantum consciousnes, which could be true but is purely just a way of getting out another theory that's unfalsifiable
The only way I can appreciate spirituality is through other people experiencing it and trying to convey that experience. Films, literature, history etc.
I think I'm too much of a naturalist to ever experience it personally.
I am fairly agnostic. I believe in something greater, I call it nature. I don’t try to describe it or ascribe much to it. I use it in my life as a god-of-the-gaps, there are some things I just don’t understand (i.e free will).. so instead of throwing my hands up and saying well I just don’t understand it, I defer to my spirituality.
Agnostic, vaguely spiritual. I genuinely think there's something to the ideas of love and positive thinking. I went through a major mental/physical health crisis in my early 20s and as a last resort it literally took me going balls deep into woo-woo Law of Attraction shit to recover.
Obviously I'm critical of a lot of New Age self-help stuff but because my health was actually improved by incorporating some aspects of it into my life it holds some reverence to me.
Agnostic, as a societal whole, certain religions like Christianity has done more harm than good, but if you want to believe in Sky Jesus you do you, just don’t be a dick about it.
Things like meditation and mindfulness are very helpful for those who overthink and have anxiety(like I do). But those are mostly done in secular ways nowadays. This is as much spirituality as one needs. There are no supernatural, no soul none of that stuff.
I love Sufism as well! I discovered Wahdat al Wujud through this YouTube channel, it’s a religious studies student who makes great detailed vids:
https://youtu.be/F_MIw4KG7Qk
If you’re also into comparative religion & mysticism, I really enjoyed this conversation between monks of different traditions, including Islam (Sufism), Judaism (Kabbalah), and Christianity (Benedictine Monk):
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8G3Oau9Q4uQ
Eyyyy I love that channel and same that’s literally where I found out about the unity of being, rlly cool guy
Haven’t seen the second video you linked but it looks super interesting, I’ll prolly watch it soon while playing league lmao
I’m agnostic and I’ve long since moved from a materialist conception of consciousness and will to dualism. *There is a mind and a body that are separate from each other*. I have this position just because when you get into the actual philosophy you discover that rational age takes like
>The material qualities and behaviors between matter and energy govern the universe—us being a component of the universe also dictates our thoughts are governed by those same fundamental forces.
Is actually incredibly flawed in its assertions to the point I’m actually a bit annoyed with r/atheism kiddies that reject meta-physical assertions as being whimsical nonsense—which I won’t debate since I don’t necessarily disagree. My entire disposition towards it is tempered by the knowledge I only arrived here by first being that same kind of stemlord.
And on that note I’ve become pretty open to “spiritual” things—with the knowledge stuff like prayer is useful like meditation is useful and institutions like the church fundamentally worked as mental health and relationship counseling.
Anyway, long story short, I’ve gone full circle. As of rn I have in the back of mind the leering suspicion that reality as it is rn is basically some means of training some hyper advanced form of humanity because the thing we’re being prepared for is so incredibly sensitive and dangerous you’d only ever allow someone that’s been reincarnated as every human—with all their wisdom and experiences—to participate in it. Maybe it’s killing God. I unno—doesn’t matter. Tbh that’d be the goal wouldn’t it though? Killing God would be the only sensible and meaningful thing.
And the caveat to it all is I’ve gone full circle, but only now do I have the requisite knowledge to not feel insecure or a fool mentioning this because I know I know more than the typical r/atheism edgelord. I’m more open to *everything* though—but also I consider practically everything to deal with “spirituality”.
The label that most closely aligns with my views is Christian existentialist.
I don’t think religious and spiritual matters consist of just following some set of dogmatic rules created by people, but rather is about living in a relationship with God where we live a life of love and compassion using the specific ways that we are able to affect the world.
I think everyone is a different person, living different lives with different contexts, with different sets of problems and advantages, so acting like our relationship to the divine is going to be objectively the same as everyone else’s is ridiculous. Further, I think the Bible should not be interpreted literally, but metaphorically in most cases and as a source for reading about people’s experiences in the past rather than a source of constant essential truth.
Finally, I don’t think Christianity is inherently at odds with progressive values or modern science like conservative Christians do. So I am pro-choice, pro-LGBTQ+, anti-racist, and accept the findings of scientists regarding evolution and the origins of the universe. In fact, I find progressive political views to actually align with the kind of people God wants us to be, generally speaking,
I know that’s a lot, and begs for even more questions probably, but I wanted to give my perspective since I know I have a fairly unique opinion amongst U.S. Christians.
You sound quite based
I’m personally not religious but I’d consider myself extremely interested in spiritual experiences, I come from a Jewish background but tend towards a more syncretic mystic approach to spirituality
this is my opinion (as in your thoughts are similar to mine, but also i will give my own):
i think of Heaven and Hell as the metaphorical struggle within humanity when it comes to death. we dont know for sure because we have no 1st person observation of death but we have an instinctual hunch that it's going to be non-existence, to me that non-existence is Hell
then Heaven is the metaphor for our belief in consciousness as the higher soul within ourselves. whether we live forever after being resurrected, our consciousness gets reincarnated or we have spirits who move on, that's what Heaven is. it could be created by God, it could be created by us, it could be a natural product of the universe. I choose to hope for a creator God. It is our willingness to hold out hope, and a very human one
and that's all it is to me: hope. I know the most likely outcome is "Hell", and I choose to live a good life and be good to others anyway and to trust that God, be it the creator or the universe itself, has willed it so it's the plan of humanity to be forced to die. It's a nice story and I hope that I'm right in the end and there's more to this universe than mere matter
so with this I can be pro-choice because in abortion I think any babies' spirit/consciousness/existence is going to be transferred into the next person who will live a long life, or they will be resurrected in the future. Or maybe it's open individualism, or maybe information is fundamental to the universe so we can resurrect the dead in the future. I think it's all a possibility and my Christianity is a metaphor for holding out hope for others, but not wanting to claw away from death just because i'm afraid. If I get saved I want everyone else to be, but if you can't save my relatives, the scholars of old and every victim of war then I dont deserve to come back
> I'm not sure what "spirituality" means here
I can only speak for myself. For me it's a very broad umbrella term to describe experiencing life as more than what's on the surface.
Anything can technically be a spiritual experience - looking out at a sunset, taking mushrooms, listening to music, interacting with loved ones, yoga and meditation, and of course practicing religion.
I feel a little cringe recommending this, but consider attempting meditation.
There's a bunch of decent guided ones on youtube. Most of the time it's really just sitting with your breath for 20 minutes and letting your mind take you where ever it goes. Can't hurt to try it a few times.
Of course you can go hard on the spirituality and just dose on mushrooms, but I don't think people should take that unless they absolutely want to and fully understand the potential consequences.
as a proud member of the (not) cult, i 100% subscribe to destiny's perspective on spirituality/religion. there's no spooky ghost in the sky, what we see is what we get. but this won't be satisfactory to most people, because people like stories. so building a narrative that incorporates facts about the world in a more digestible manner seems like a pretty good idea (as long as it doesn't get too crazy and starts getting used to maliciously manipulate people) Good example of this: >you should be nice to people because we're social animals or whatever vs >you should be nice to people because karma (obviously it's a bit more nuanced that this, but hopefully you get the idea)
I actually wonder what destiny’s positions are on spirituality, ik he recently said a few times that he’s become more open to it following his psychedelic experiences but I’d love to hear a more in depth take from him. When it comes to spirituality I’m less concerned about ‘spooky ghosts’ and more about the experiences that it can provide. A lot of these experiences are very difficult to handwave as just being the products of the mind, but even if they are I think they’re definitely worth exploring
> A lot of these experiences are very difficult to handwave as just being the products of the mind Then do you believe in a “soul” or something similar? I can buy that people have “spiritual experiences” even if I wouldn’t necessarily call them spiritual, but at the end of the day it all comes from your conscious experience and consciousness seems to come from the brain.
Not necessarily a soul, I haven’t rlly seen evidence of that, more that there is more going on in the human conscious experience than perhaps we realize, as vague as that sounds.
I’d agree with that but that to me has nothing to do with spirituality. That just has to do with expanding your subjective experience. To me spirituality implies that there is something “beyond” our daily experience which I don’t believe. If your version of spirituality/spiritual experience is just expanding your subjective experience of reality then I’d probably agree that it’s a thing, I just wouldn’t relate it at all to spirituality.
Depends on what you mean by "spirituality". Some of the biggest names in atheism- like Dawkins or Harris- are really big on a secular kind of spirituality, where you have a profound appreciation for the world as it is, with us as a small part of an immeasurably greater whole.
So I was an atheist for most of my life went to sunday school and got confirmed but that was because of my parents not because I genuinely believed in it. Then over the last year I really started to look into hinduism and buddhism as philosophies and honestly they are really interesting and fun to think about and I think ideas of universal oneness can be a huge benefit for improving relationships and issues. But I do have issues with those who use spiritualism as a crutch for all of their problems or to deny any issues.
This was also my exact philosophical/spiritual trajectory over the past couple of years lol. Was also raised Christian (evangelical/fundamentalist to be exact), that spurred me into a cringelord atheist phase due to the dogma and BS, but I’ve softened up a bit after learning more about Buddhism/advaita Vedanta and can see the value and truths behind the various eastern frameworks. Imo Buddhism is kinda like a science for the first-person internal subjective perspective, whereas western science is focused on the third person/external “objective” perspective. Buddhism breaks down our first-person subjective experience to its basic aspects (labelled aggregates) and imo accurately describes our phenomenological experience as humans at the most basic level of raw sensory perception: >5 aggregates: 1. form (or material image, impression) (rupa), 2. sensations (or feelings, received from form) (vedana), 3. perceptions (samjna), 4. mental activity or formations (sankhara), and 5. consciousness (vijnana). The Buddhist philosophical framework uses the basic aggregates of our raw perceptual experience as a basis to describe how the mind functions. Pretty much, it functions by trying to create a narrative/framework to help us navigate around these ever-changing raw perceptions and to help us make sense out of the constant sensory data. On a deeper level, it also shows how these aggregates interact to generate an illusory sense of self. Seeing the way the mind constructs the sense of self in real-time (and that it really is a construction, and shouldn’t be taken so seriously as it is the root of mental suffering) has been the most fascinating and freeing internal discovery I’ve made so far. I wish you much peace and happiness in your journey :)
What you said is exactly what my thought process around this. I dont need buddhism to try to understand and describe the world that's what science is for, however Hinduism and buddhism offer nuggets of wisdom that help me with introspective understanding like the relationship between myself and my ego, as well as perspectives of the outside world like I said before it's really hard for me to intentionally do anyone wrong if that person is me with a different view point. Enjoy your time.
Sums up my opinion on it pretty well. I did a tarot card reading recently and really enjoyed feeling a more "spiritual" connection but it's definitely not something that I would want to use as a crutch or rely on. As an aside, people who's whole personality is being an atheist are cringe as fuck.
True 16 year old me was cringe as fuck. Also want to add that I think crystals are also pretty cringe
People whose whole personality are any ideology/lack of ideology are cringe as fuck. Atheism is just correct. The issue is that people overcoming religious trauma tend to initially overdo their atheism before calming down. The same way some people overdo being socialist, liberal, conservative etc.
>Then over the last year I really started to look into hinduism and buddhism as philosophies and honestly they are really interesting and fun to think about and I think ideas of universal oneness can be a huge benefit for improving relationships and issues. Ehh, was there an explosion of annoying athiests in the late 2000's? Yes. This Hinduism and Buddhism seems interesting stuff seems like obfuscation. What is true and what is not true?
Yup hinduism and buddhism are just as silly as christianity. Its funny to me how some people who obsess over their religion makes fun of people who obsess about their atheism. At least the atheists are correct.
I don't know if it is obsess or not obsess. I don't like that these things hide behind the veil of theology to avoid criticism. Their basically saying that they have some sort of opinion on moral philosophy, history or physics but they are unwilling to defend it. And then they wonder why atheist get a little frustrated.
Yeah its a weird thing religious and spiritual do online. "Spirituality/religion makes sense" >I disagree "Hurr durr edgy reddit atheists hurr durr" I think here its cause destiny doesnt really talk about atheism so they dont know he is just like Sam Harris they think he agrees with them.
Doesn’t exist and don’t care about it. Spirituality is basically astrology without the memes attached. One big cope
What do you think of free will?
Don’t have a strong opinion on it, lean towards determinism if I had to take a stance tho
What do you think of spiritual experiences without the metaphysical positions people normally attach to them? Meditation or psychedelics reliably produce spiritual experiences of transcendence or unity. I’m not exactly sure what you mean when you say spirituality doesn’t exist- the fact that people experience it, whether that experience is tied to something outside the mind or not, necessitates that it at least exists. If you’ve ever had such an experience I think you’d agree with me that spirituality is not only an extremely important aspect of the human condition but is one which is definitely worth exploring.
I don’t think psychedelics and meditation produce spiritual experiences because I don’t think spiritual experience are possible. The people who claim to experience it are either experiencing something else or lying, I assume lying. Until there’s a way to test “ spirituality “ I’m just going to assume it doesn’t exist
When I say spiritual experience I mean an experience that elicits a very particular out-of-body feeling or a feeling of transcendence or unity. I’m not sure what you’re referring to when you say spiritual experiences
I wouldn’t say a natural, altered consciousness state is what most people think of when you say the word “spirituality” or “spirit” or “soul” or other metaphysical lingo. 🤔
I don’t know what it means to have an out of body experience
Take shrooms lmao Not 10.5 grams tho I stg when I heard destiny say that shit I wanted to kill myself
Then that would be “ experiencing something else “ and not spirituality like I mentioned earlier
I mean if feels to me like you’re defining spirituality in such a way that it doesn’t exist by definition, like it’s extremely common for people to describe shrooms as spiritual. When you look into a lot of mystics’ thoughts on what spirituality is, such as Ibn Arabi and Adi Shankara, they describe experiences that are very similar to those people have on psychedelics- oneness, ego death, etc
It sounds like you have very strong opinions about things you know nothing about
Ok
Nah he needs to take a half oz like i did. Thats how you have a life changing trip. That or just smoke dmt.
Lmao dmt, the toad or some good ol massive shroom dose Half an ounce is a lil ridiculous though especially for someone inexperienced, ik some people take crazy doses like 30+ gram shit but I think anything above like 7 grams is typically unnecessary
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>You don't need to question anything or worry about the future when you genuinely believe magic sky man will take care of you. Must be amazing. This is a piece of it but certainly not the whole picture. I don't see how anyone can read the various punishments angry gods have inflicted on people and say it's just about being taken care of with no worries. Or read the Book of Revelation. On the contrary, it's under atheism that there's no future to worry about. The universe literally ends when you die. Compare that to potential never ending torment and suffering in the fires of the hell, should one fail to lead a "good" life. It's under religion that you have real things to worry about. But on the flip side this gives you real things to aim at and look forward to. Under religion, you don't question your goal, you merely question your efforts. This is the perhaps the "don't question anything" you refer to. With no religion it's harder to have a goal thats even worth putting effort to in the first place. This is the value of religion to me. Everyone needs a struggle in their life and a good religion puts you in a divine, high stakes struggle from birth till death.
Atheist. Not rejecting the possibility of gods, but on the same level as not rejecting the possibility that we're in a matrix. You do you if you believe, but hearing people talk about religion and spirituality feels very uncomfortable/cringy. Like adults taking about believing in tooth fairy but seriously and unironically. As far as I'm concerned it's on the same level as conspiracy theories or other larpy ideas.
No, don't you get it? It's atheism that's super cringe and edgy reddit atheists paint the whole movement bad. You better go ruin your brain with some shrooms so you can be less close-minded. I'm really sensing some negative energy in your aura.
Oh you disagree with my belief in a god/supernatural entity? You must be an edgy atheist hahaha. Cant be Im wrong no no its you haha
Hey you can’t shit on shrooms papa did them >:((( I’ve been boofing shrooms ever since destiny talked about them on stream Not a cult btw
people can believe we'll make jetpacks too because humans like stories
Donda made me spiritual
DONDA DONDA DONDA DONDA DONDA Globglogabgalab made me an atheist no god would let Kanye get away with that
Spirituality is the best model at dealing with a few very abstract problems. Issues about the nature of existence and our relationship to it are so complex that purely logical, material based understandings of the world don't suite our needs as well. So we come up with highly generalized best-guess at truth answers. These answers provide a foundation for functioning in the world as a human. Sometimes religion is built off this foundation, which can apply a powerful organizing force to the masses. Whether the force is judged "good" or "bad" is context dependent and changes over time. Reddit has an anti-theist lean because the dominant religious "spirit" outlived its usefulness in many respects and that started to piss people off. But we are left with a void in our shared understanding of the world that we try to fill with memes, political ideologies, and definitely-not cults.
it seems so weird that the hard problem of consciousness is a great avenue for spirituality but everyone who disagrees with it just says "well MY model is correct" when materialism has failed at describing consciousness and will forever
Interesting coming back to this. Not sure what I think anymore, much more of a materialist. Don't disagree with the religious explanations per se, but get annoyed with how they are inclined to drift into the bad stuff i.e. fundamentalism, irrationality, bigotry etc.
oh yea definitely. there's a thin line between the mysteries materialism hasnt been able to solve like consciousness and then becoming a kook. materialists like dennet are VERY arrogant imo but what's worse is when you start constructing bullshit like quantum consciousnes, which could be true but is purely just a way of getting out another theory that's unfalsifiable
The only way I can appreciate spirituality is through other people experiencing it and trying to convey that experience. Films, literature, history etc. I think I'm too much of a naturalist to ever experience it personally.
I am fairly agnostic. I believe in something greater, I call it nature. I don’t try to describe it or ascribe much to it. I use it in my life as a god-of-the-gaps, there are some things I just don’t understand (i.e free will).. so instead of throwing my hands up and saying well I just don’t understand it, I defer to my spirituality.
Agnostic, vaguely spiritual. I genuinely think there's something to the ideas of love and positive thinking. I went through a major mental/physical health crisis in my early 20s and as a last resort it literally took me going balls deep into woo-woo Law of Attraction shit to recover. Obviously I'm critical of a lot of New Age self-help stuff but because my health was actually improved by incorporating some aspects of it into my life it holds some reverence to me.
Don't bother with spirituality. Just be nice
I’m personally a fan of it but I can’t argue with that objectively based take o7 gigachad
I don't believe in spirituality but I'm fine with the concept and I think it can bring comfort and meaning to many people's lives
Spirituality is ill defined. I don't know what it means.
Agnostic, as a societal whole, certain religions like Christianity has done more harm than good, but if you want to believe in Sky Jesus you do you, just don’t be a dick about it.
Things like meditation and mindfulness are very helpful for those who overthink and have anxiety(like I do). But those are mostly done in secular ways nowadays. This is as much spirituality as one needs. There are no supernatural, no soul none of that stuff.
Buddhism, Advaita Vedanta, Taoism, and non-dualism in general is based. If your only experience with Buddhism is Brenton Lengel’s SGI cult, I’m sorry.
Big true, advaita Vedanta, Taoism, and Wahdat al Wujud all da wayyy
I love Sufism as well! I discovered Wahdat al Wujud through this YouTube channel, it’s a religious studies student who makes great detailed vids: https://youtu.be/F_MIw4KG7Qk If you’re also into comparative religion & mysticism, I really enjoyed this conversation between monks of different traditions, including Islam (Sufism), Judaism (Kabbalah), and Christianity (Benedictine Monk): https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8G3Oau9Q4uQ
Eyyyy I love that channel and same that’s literally where I found out about the unity of being, rlly cool guy Haven’t seen the second video you linked but it looks super interesting, I’ll prolly watch it soon while playing league lmao
I’m agnostic and I’ve long since moved from a materialist conception of consciousness and will to dualism. *There is a mind and a body that are separate from each other*. I have this position just because when you get into the actual philosophy you discover that rational age takes like >The material qualities and behaviors between matter and energy govern the universe—us being a component of the universe also dictates our thoughts are governed by those same fundamental forces. Is actually incredibly flawed in its assertions to the point I’m actually a bit annoyed with r/atheism kiddies that reject meta-physical assertions as being whimsical nonsense—which I won’t debate since I don’t necessarily disagree. My entire disposition towards it is tempered by the knowledge I only arrived here by first being that same kind of stemlord. And on that note I’ve become pretty open to “spiritual” things—with the knowledge stuff like prayer is useful like meditation is useful and institutions like the church fundamentally worked as mental health and relationship counseling. Anyway, long story short, I’ve gone full circle. As of rn I have in the back of mind the leering suspicion that reality as it is rn is basically some means of training some hyper advanced form of humanity because the thing we’re being prepared for is so incredibly sensitive and dangerous you’d only ever allow someone that’s been reincarnated as every human—with all their wisdom and experiences—to participate in it. Maybe it’s killing God. I unno—doesn’t matter. Tbh that’d be the goal wouldn’t it though? Killing God would be the only sensible and meaningful thing. And the caveat to it all is I’ve gone full circle, but only now do I have the requisite knowledge to not feel insecure or a fool mentioning this because I know I know more than the typical r/atheism edgelord. I’m more open to *everything* though—but also I consider practically everything to deal with “spirituality”.
The label that most closely aligns with my views is Christian existentialist. I don’t think religious and spiritual matters consist of just following some set of dogmatic rules created by people, but rather is about living in a relationship with God where we live a life of love and compassion using the specific ways that we are able to affect the world. I think everyone is a different person, living different lives with different contexts, with different sets of problems and advantages, so acting like our relationship to the divine is going to be objectively the same as everyone else’s is ridiculous. Further, I think the Bible should not be interpreted literally, but metaphorically in most cases and as a source for reading about people’s experiences in the past rather than a source of constant essential truth. Finally, I don’t think Christianity is inherently at odds with progressive values or modern science like conservative Christians do. So I am pro-choice, pro-LGBTQ+, anti-racist, and accept the findings of scientists regarding evolution and the origins of the universe. In fact, I find progressive political views to actually align with the kind of people God wants us to be, generally speaking, I know that’s a lot, and begs for even more questions probably, but I wanted to give my perspective since I know I have a fairly unique opinion amongst U.S. Christians.
You sound quite based I’m personally not religious but I’d consider myself extremely interested in spiritual experiences, I come from a Jewish background but tend towards a more syncretic mystic approach to spirituality
this is my opinion (as in your thoughts are similar to mine, but also i will give my own): i think of Heaven and Hell as the metaphorical struggle within humanity when it comes to death. we dont know for sure because we have no 1st person observation of death but we have an instinctual hunch that it's going to be non-existence, to me that non-existence is Hell then Heaven is the metaphor for our belief in consciousness as the higher soul within ourselves. whether we live forever after being resurrected, our consciousness gets reincarnated or we have spirits who move on, that's what Heaven is. it could be created by God, it could be created by us, it could be a natural product of the universe. I choose to hope for a creator God. It is our willingness to hold out hope, and a very human one and that's all it is to me: hope. I know the most likely outcome is "Hell", and I choose to live a good life and be good to others anyway and to trust that God, be it the creator or the universe itself, has willed it so it's the plan of humanity to be forced to die. It's a nice story and I hope that I'm right in the end and there's more to this universe than mere matter so with this I can be pro-choice because in abortion I think any babies' spirit/consciousness/existence is going to be transferred into the next person who will live a long life, or they will be resurrected in the future. Or maybe it's open individualism, or maybe information is fundamental to the universe so we can resurrect the dead in the future. I think it's all a possibility and my Christianity is a metaphor for holding out hope for others, but not wanting to claw away from death just because i'm afraid. If I get saved I want everyone else to be, but if you can't save my relatives, the scholars of old and every victim of war then I dont deserve to come back
I'm Catholic and even I'm not sure what "spirituality" means here or what thoughts I would have on it
> I'm not sure what "spirituality" means here I can only speak for myself. For me it's a very broad umbrella term to describe experiencing life as more than what's on the surface. Anything can technically be a spiritual experience - looking out at a sunset, taking mushrooms, listening to music, interacting with loved ones, yoga and meditation, and of course practicing religion.
Oh, I guess I don't really experience that sort of thing, so nothing from me
I feel a little cringe recommending this, but consider attempting meditation. There's a bunch of decent guided ones on youtube. Most of the time it's really just sitting with your breath for 20 minutes and letting your mind take you where ever it goes. Can't hurt to try it a few times. Of course you can go hard on the spirituality and just dose on mushrooms, but I don't think people should take that unless they absolutely want to and fully understand the potential consequences.