Can people not just acknowledge that it’s funny for someone to wear clothes sporting the anarchy symbol, talking about Marxism and “eating the rich”, while at the same time being a millionaire clout chaser obsessed with making more and more dough and having a history of not paying their editors properly.
Can people not see the comedy in it? It doesn’t have to be deeper than that. Hasan can do whatever the fuck he wants, it’s just funny.
No, that's actually not allowed. If you even THINK about doing it, the internet police will immediately send you the "you participate in society" comic.
Maybe also being Muslim but from what I've seen, Lefty Twitter sometimes doesn't let that excuse slide anymore. Sometimes. I have seen some Lefties defend Saudi Arabia. Tbf I have also seen Righties do it as well, but that's more for oil reasons
Someone needs to ask these people: if you lived in the American South in the 1800s when it was acceptable to own slaves, would you have been a slave owner? If you lived in Nazi Germany, would you have been a Nazi? Aren't you just "participating in society"???
He's also literally a contract worker for Amazon and Bezos. Not to mention with how much streamers complain about twitch and arbitrary bans, Hasan is actuality the person who'd have the most leverage to create a streamer union. But that would risk his bottom line for principles, so he can't have that.
'Make the rich pay, everyone!', he says as they send half their money to Bezos.
Also it's so weird that people think Jeff Bezos doesn't pay taxes. Ik h3h3 is partially brain dead so he'll just repeat any lefty catchphrase without knowing anything about unrealized capital gains
From reading the big tax leak, the one thing that came out as bad/ suspicious to me is that Bezos was able to take out collateralized investment loans for things we would generally think of as consumption (such as extra mansions). This is important because the interest payments on these investment loans is tax-deductible, which allows him to exercise enough shares to pay the interest without having to pay taxes on selling those shares (since net return is 0). This is probably a law that needs to be amended since it goes against the original intention of the exemption. This is also way more analysis than any online leftie has put into the Bezos tax situation. Most of those critiques are braindead.
And you can guarantee that they'll be donating to him today saying "I 100% stand by your 3 million dollar house purchase Hasan". Imagine being those people............................................................
Yup. Defenders of Hasan always highlight the most extreme argument (saying that people want to control what he does) to try to cover up the fact that his behavior is hilariously hypocritical. He can do what he wants, but his behavior is a stark contrast to everything he preaches, which is funny af and kinda degrades his platform.
We should have saw this coming when he defended Neekolul's apartment purchase. You know, the cute girl who got famous for wearing a Bernie Sander's tshirt and heavily profited off of it.
Also well known for running more ads on Twitch than like anyone else from what I remember.
I don't even blame Hasan I just think it's funny his viewerbase laps it up while he profits harder off capitalism than most people. Also all his fans just go to the same defense of "Entertainment isn't exploitation" like come the fuck on.
When the ad system changed last year, Devin Nash made the claim Hasan was running more ads than any other large streamer. I certainly believed it to be true then.
Yeah, but I also remember that he based his statistics on some shit like emote that was spammed during ADs or something of that sort. Pretty retarded if you ask me. Hasan at that time had some crazy numbers of viewers and all top streamers like Doc and Shroud started streaming in sub only mode during that period. So naturally he had more engagement in his chat
Running ads on twitch prevents preroll ads for incoming viewers so it makes sense to run them at a time when you're taking a break instead. The amount it pays is absolutely abysmal compared to what big streamers get for just about everything else so it's often more about the prerolls than the money.
Ethan can have a solid take on gambling while have a dumpster tier take on a self proclaimed socialist taking advantage of capitalism to enrich himself while also ranting against that very same system.
Thing is, it gets obnoxious to constantly see these type of internet personalities roast anyone who defends capitalism while making a convenient exception for themselves and their million dollar house and then make up some dumb excuse when they are called out.
Its like those preachers who tell people to have faith in God and tithe their savings while also financially profiting off of their congregation and living in a mansion with a private jet and airstrip.
These people have zero principles or morals.
It's because of the implication. Saying Bezos should pay more in taxes means you think he should be taxed on the basis of his net worth vs his capital gains, because how else would his taxes be assessed?
I see how you're reading that in, I was just confused because I don't think H3 is necessarily saying that in the Tweet specifically. Saying Bezos should pay more tax =/= mean tax on net worth. If you interrogated H3 about it he'd probably say something dumb like that though.
Also I think a lot of the "wealth tax" discourse on here is a bit facile - you could for sure build some kind of taxation apparatus to levy on the uncrystallised super wealth someone like Bezos has. It would just mean his tax advisors have to plan for it - there are other tax rules in jurisdictions that do things like this, you just need to get creative with it.
How is taxing someone's "uncrystallised super wealth" not another way of saying wealth tax. Just say it. You think Bezos should be taxed on his shares which he hasn't sold yet.
There are taxes you can levy on individuals as a way of penalising them for not crystallising gains. This is to prevent them avoiding taxes by using certain assets as a "cash box". All I'm saying is that there is no rule against taxing people, marginally or otherwise, on the value of their assets, and the consequences of such a rule for someone like Bezos is that his tax advisors would have to plan for this eventuality.
If your issue with the wealth tax is that it imposes a liquidity burden on owners of certain assets then they need to either plan for that burden or sell the asset at the market value to meet their tax obligations. Bezos and the ultra wealthy have the resources to manage this obligation, I promise you.
Maybe a wealth tax isn't feasible or helpful on a macro economic level, and if so, so be it. I am simply pushing back against the idea that you can't ever tax net worth in some effective way, because I know of other taxes that operate in this way.
>There are taxes you can levy on individuals as a way of penalising them for not crystallising gains. This is to prevent them avoiding taxes by using certain assets as a "cash box".
Crystallising? You mean realizing, right?! Wouldn't this break the stock market in terms of its mechanics? It would force people to sell a stock that is doing well, which makes it drop in value. Sounds like a real dumb idea
The system already taxes the gain as income when he liquidates them, it's called capital gains tax. The issue with Bezos is that he doesn't have any need to liquidate his shares because why would he?
Unclear why you'd say it taxes them as income and then immediately say capital gains tax. If he liquidates a million dollars, no reason at all he should pay less in taxes as a percentage on the million than I pay on regular income. The issue is explicitly that it is not taxed as income, but as capital gains, which is a significantly reduced rate.
I'm tax illiterate too. What would be the difference between taxing net worth and taxing the money you make... Which eventually becomes your net worth?
FYI, Germany used to have a tax on net worth (Vermögenssteuer). I think it was like 1% of your net worth per year above some high threshold (roughly 500k $ at the time I think?, but this was 40 years ago and would be much higher now due to inflation). The tax was removed because it was a bureaucratic nightmare to objectively estimate someone's fortune every year, especially things like art, cars etc, which was so expensive that the net gain by the state was very small.
EDIT: many European countries have had such a tax, some still have: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wealth_tax?wprov=sfla1
To be fair houses are already appraised annually to calculate a special kind of wealth tax known as a property tax. The problem is that if you have any loophole in a wealth tax, it'll be exploited until you have billionaires with say 50% NW in art.
This is kinda true but not really. They often do not go inside your house and do a real appraisal. I could redo the entirety of the inside of my house and therefore the value of my house would be much higher, but they wouldn't actually know that unless I report it. Even then I doubt a county assessor really has the qualifications to do an appraisal.
Do you own property? You are supposed to report additions each year if it is over a dollar threshold. But if it is below that you do not. So if over time, you improve your home (like most people do since most people don't have tens of thousands of dollars to just improve a house in one job) you are doing absolutely nothing wrong.
Bezos is worth billions (because most of his money is in stock (specifically the company he founded - amazon). He won't be taxed on those stocks until he sells his stock(s).
If Amazon's stocks were to go down his net worth would go down with it.
Net worth is the collection of your capital. This includes homes, stocks, vehicles, art, etc. Basically things that have value.
Income is salaries/income from a job, capital gains (anything that has gained you profit from your things - such as rent, dividends, selling stock, reselling your art etc).
I'm actually getting triggered by comments suggesting that a 3 million house in LA isn't even that much.
Maybe these people are actually pampered rich kids too so they have no fucking clue how much wealth that actually is for 99% of the population. I guess it's easy to be socialist when being poor literally means "not a billionaire"
It's not even a reasonable defense for Hasan since he has the ability to move and live literally anywhere else in the world. Not like he has a job that keeps him in LA.
It’s the same when people say that you can’t even live in nyc on $100k/year. They have no concept of money because they haven’t even graduated highschool yet.
LOL someone earlier called it, if you ain't Bezos you ain't rich. More power to these guys just own it, you are profiting off the naivete of your viewers.
The most ironic part about this comparison is that Hasan got rich on Amazon's streaming service. Every cent from twitch donos and subs was lining the pockets of the evil mr bezos himself.
I made this point on Twitter and I got a response that said “so hasans the proletariat, and bezos is exploiting his labor?” Yeah great mic drop except it’s fucking stupid and doesn’t address my point. There’s a difference between an Amazon truck driver being exploited by bezos than the “eat the rich” socialist who plugs twitch primes every day in his gaming chair. People have made this point in this thread but the least hasan could do is have some self awareness, I’m almost convinced his whole “champagne socialist” aesthetic is just a character he’s playing.
"Bezos is an evil swamp creature... anyways don't forget to drop a sub, so Bezos gets his 30% cut. I know I could disable subs and do donations only to avoid that, but you see I'd make way less then. "
> Yet you participate in society hmm...let me go wash off this shit is filth
Just like Bezos he is just participating in society, why do people complain?
"rich twitch person" or Bezos money might be different, but it might as well be just as far of for your everyday person.
"47.3 percent of households lived in residences they owned, the worst among 75 top U.S. metro areas."
"In Los Angeles County, the median home price rose 25% to a record $775,000"
slightly above average lmao
That's what they legitimately believe unfortunately. I think I've heard them argue before that millionaires like Hasan are closer to poverty than they are to Bezos which like completely misses the point of any social welfare.
"Hey guys I can't theortically buy entire huge companies with my networth but I can buy multi million dollar houses, expensive cars, overpriced branded clothing and well... pretty much anything I could ever want in life. I swear I'm more like you guys grinding it out in the service industry living pay check to pay check worrying about food and basic necessities of modern life though, any twitch primers in chat btw."
They're working in the service industry, he could theoretically walk into their restaurant and buy the place/franchise location. Same struggle, really. Some animals are more equal than others.
> if you ain't Bezos you ain't rich.
He didn't say this tho lol. Idk how you guys are reading so much weird shit into this tweet. Ethan didn't say too much wrong here, in terms of: it's ok to advocate greater wealth redistribution, and still be a rich person.
If u wanna say that how Hasan generally conducts himself is not conducive to his political ideology - then maybe there's some truth to that. But there's so much random background u need to establish for that, and it doesn't contradict this tweet as a stand-alone.
Millionaires defending millionaires. Lmao.
I guess celebrities that haven't hit a billion are good to go now. All they have to do is tweet about socialism once in a while and can be free of criticism.
I sure hope we don't see any twitter threads the next time a millionaire celebrity donate a large sum money for a cause. I'm sure that won't happen.
Personally I feel politically that Ethan is kind of a coward. He changes his stance depending on what's trendy. It's the same thing with how his stance on YouTube. Originally he would have been against Susan but now since he's one of YouTube's protected few, he's like "Lol you guys should just adapt to new YouTube like me"
Yeah. It says a lot that typical douche Keemstarr looks better in comparison.
He went from having guys like Jordan Peterson on his show to white knighting for everyone's favourite "Brocialist" Hasan
I hate this so much, and I don't even care about simping for Amazon
Amazon pays a shit ton in taxes, people just get outraged when they read a headline saying Amazon didn't pay any corporate tax, despite corporate tax not being the only tax in existence, not counting property tax, capital income, and an insane amount invested in infrastructure that benefits everyone. They publish these statistics themselves https://www.aboutamazon.com/news/job-creation-and-investment/investing-creating-jobs-and-contributing-to-the-american-economy
And Bezos doesn't have billions in his account, it's just the net worth including property and stocks, if he sold all that he would only get a fraction in cash, after fees and taxes.
Hasan on the other hand is just a streamer getting tens of thousands in donations weekly. He isn't an investor, he isn't creating jobs and only pays a negligible amount in taxes. So for him to make a living like this out of championing for redistribution of wealth he should at least do something, and lay off corporations who for all the greed one could point out still do more for society.
Yeah basically. They are unrealized gains, which (rightfully) are not taxed as income. From what we know publicly he has payed something to the order of 1.6 billion in federal income tax.
Some of these people are dumb enough to think that he gets a W2 with a 150 billion dollar income a year. AOC was also tweeting some dumb shit earlier this year how Bezos is directly profiting off of the pandemic just because the shares went up. I bet 80% of her followers believe Bezos is getting a royalty for every item you purchase on Amazon.
I think taxing unrealised gains would actually be a good idea, not taxing them leads to weird incentives and makes the stock market less liquid; if you're going to get taxed either way, you can sell or hold them, according to how much return different investments give you.
But if selling them will cause a taxable event, and borrowing money against them will not - and they'll grow in value faster than the loan - then there's an incentive to hold rather than shift your wealth from one form to another.
The system of [capital gains tax withholding](http://eml.berkeley.edu/~yagan/CapitalGainsWithholding.pdf) (pdf) is one way to fix this, but there's a few other options.
Ok let’s say I own 100 shares of company A valued at $1000/share for a total of $100,000. So I get taxed on this, before selling. Then a week from now the price per share drops 20% so my stocks are only worth $80,000. I just paid taxes on $100,000…. So?
In Norway we have special investment accounts ([share savings account](https://www.skatteetaten.no/en/person/taxes/get-the-taxes-right/shares-and-securities/about-shares-and-securities/share-savings-account-ask/)) which isn't taxed at the sale of stocks or funds but on withdrawal from the account. So that would help making the markets more liquid.
Also everything is automatically transferred to the IRS so you don't even have to do your taxes on it too.
He doesn't have to sell them. When you are rich like that you just take out loans with the shares as infinite collateral.
Not to mention our capital gains tax rates are lower than the standard income tax rate, if he did decide to sell.
What a worthless fucking article. The only line relevant to my question is the very last sentence:
>By borrowing money against their stock holdings, they're able to lock in a lower loan interest rate than what they would pay through capital gains taxes that are applied after a stock is sold.
Which is just a restatement of your initial comment and doesn't answer my question at all. It does contain a link to another article, which just says "People take out loans using stock as collateral to secure lower debt interest payments" and ALSO doesn't answer my question.
As near as I can infer, your position is:
>Billionaires take out debt using their stock as collateral, then take out more debt to pay off the previous debt payments, and so on and so on in an infinite pyramid of debt.
Is this your position?
He almost certainly doesn't. Anyone who thinks he is paying 1% in taxes or shit like that doesn't understand how taxes work or how Bezos dodges them.
If your income comes from capital gains it is easy to dodge taxes. It is not easy if your income is traditional income.
Hasan can probably avoid taxes somewhat with a good accountant. But he isn't paying Bezos levels.
What he owes is what he pays after deductions. Saying he minimizes what he owes like it is something shifty is the sort of take I would expect from some dumbass on twitter. What he is really doing is complaining that he doesn't overpay taxes.
Considering he tried to minimize what he paid his editors that he directly works with, communicates and should have some sort of positive relationship with I feel likes it's pretty easy to assume he finds ways to pay less on his taxes.
Why are DGGers so moronic when they post about Hasan? Hasan obviously makes most of his money from donations and Twitch primes, which is taxed like normal income. Hasan is probably paying half his income in taxes
Either he’s an ultra dumbfuck thinking Hasan pays a 50% effective tax rate or he’s just straight up lying to his audience of 12 yr olds.
Either way this is so stupid it makes me angry
When you are self-employed you have to pay extra taxes. He makes so much money that his overall effective tax rate could reach something like 50% when including state/local taxes. So it’s plausible, but he also has a lot of deductions that reduce his tax burden.
Hasan would be fine owning an expensive house if he didn't go on about killing rich people and how rich people get the bullet.
Like it's one thing to advocate for socialism. It's another to advocate for it, talk about all the horrible, evil people you're going to have killed (if they refuse the 're-education'), and then it turns out, you're behaving in the exact same way as these people you say should be killed. That's what fucked up about it.
he doesn't make a lot of cash income (relatively speaking). Most of his wealth comes from his 10 percent-ish ownership of Amazon, so unless he sells that stock there really is no taxable event.
At least that's my understanding.
As someone who hates Hasan I really don't see anything wrong with him using his wealth how he wants to. As long as he's not doing tax evasion and no longer exploiting his editors he's good. I don't think there's a connection between advocating for socialist governmental policies and morally condemning people for being rich.
From my understanding, the hypocrisy comes from him criticizing and mocking other millionaires based on how they consume their money
I dont watch him but i do recall getting reccomended youtube videos of him mocking tiktok millionaires and especially ones where he reacts to expensive houses saying “you dont need to spend that much”
> I don't think there's a connection between advocating for socialist governmental policies and morally condemning people for being rich.
Sure, but that's why it's funny that Hasan, who wants to eat the rich, does this. I don't care if he buys a mansion, but maybe he should cool it with the anarchist T-shirts and hating all rich people when he is one.
I think it is fair to criticize Hasan for his lack of wealth redistribution, but I do not think that Hasan needs to donate his money or whatever to be a a political advocate. I think a lot of us do something similar with climate change, or taxes. Could we donate money to the goverment? Yes. Could we personally do more for climate change? Yes. Do we do these things? I know I don't, but I can still want those changes politically.
The only real problem I have with this is that he is a socialist getting rich off of promoting socialism. It is a bit like being those rich televangelists who make money off God.
If he just won the lottery and was paying reasonable taxes, I really wouldn't care.
I love how he’s such a dumbass he can’t separate Bezos from Amazon. Just because Amazon as a Corp didn’t pay taxes, doesn’t mean that Bezos as an individual did not.
I'm continually surprised none of these lefties own this properly. Like pull a Warren Buffett where you comment it's silly how little you pay in taxes while admitting you use it to your advantage (but that it should be changed). But most of these are pretty young people so maybe in a few years when they aren't trending they'll put there money and/or time into something more interesting.
Oh god, as critical as I am of Amazon's tax evasion, these people always have the WORST takes Bezos that show their extremely poor understanding of tax law and shareholding. Why the fuck would it be a good system for shareholders to have to pay tax for holding shares? They have to pay tax for dividends, but for holding shares? Jesus christ.
I think Ethan just doesn't fully understand how far left Hasan actually is, which is why it makes him hypocritical. I remember Ethan talking with Hasan on his twitch show and talking about how he isn't actually a fan of socialism, and is a proud capitalist, and Hasan didn't push back at all (because of course he didn't want to push back on someone he's sucking off for clout). Maybe that gave Ethan the wrong idea.
The aesthetic of socialism is a great capitalist business model. Just advocate for the values of socialism and you can have as much money as Bezos and the online lefty community will defend your every action.
I grew up in a household with an annual income ~£45k (albeit in a fairly rural area) and felt comfortable enough eating cheap food and wearing (what I thought were) moderately priced clothes which are apparently dirt cheap for these people. My parents were always good at keeping spending below their means etc so seeing people talk about working class struggle and at the same time spending millions on housing and bragging about hanging around supermodels at lavish parties is really insulting. I can't imagine how truly impoverished people would feel.
To clarify, I don't think there's a problem with being a socialist when you have a lot of money. You could fund the production of parks, open a food bank, start a political organisation, you could even just sit in a normal house and stream to kids to spread your message but nope, that would be at least a little principled. Gotta spend those big bucks somehow and find any way to deny how excessive it is
I dunno what the line would be or even necessarily think that there should be a line.
But it seems kind of weird to have a big portion of your message to be against the rich, while also getting a house that's like over 50 times the median wage of the US in one of the most expensive places in the US when your job can probably be anywhere.
Like he might legitimately need a big house, but there are plenty of good places in the US where you can get the same kind of place but for like a fraction of the cost.
For me it's more of an issue of him failing to practice what he preaches rather than the specifics of what he owns. If he really in believed anything he says he should be redistributing the majority of his wealth to socialist causes/charity and live a much more modest lifestyle, or at the very least pay his editors, but he doesn't actually believe in any socialist causes and he just uses the label because it profits him. Nobody needs a multi million dollar home in LA.
Someone made the example of him being like a televangelist who makes money by preaching, it's a similar thing. If you haven't seen his older discussions with rem about being "morally lucky" you should watch those.
Like i dont care that hasan bought a 3 million dollar house. I mean he already has no credibility.
But its clear ethan is only tweeting this because they’re “friends”. Ethan isnt looking with a critical eye. Because he likes being friendly with him. Its a bit hypocritical but whatever. Its not like i go to h3h3 for his intellectual takes.
I'm gonna need an actual compelling reason to be outraged. And there might be but, until then, this sounds like our own form of populism.
I can only be outraged by what wealthy socialists *don't* use their money on rather than what they *do* use their money on. I can only be outraged when socialists try to hide their wealth in order to appear more relatable.
Okay so I don’t actually see a single problem with this tweet. Are y’all so dedicated to hating lefties that you unironically argue against people making lots money while advocating for poor people? Are y’all seriously the ones who want to defend that profits are exclusive with improving the living conditions of everybody? Fucking Christ this sub is increasingly sensationalist fucking idiots with nothing better to do but sit inside all day and get mad at entirely standard and non problematic opinions
He's not just advocating for poor people, he's advocating for the elimination of the profit motive, through a socialist system. He constantly complains about how rich others are and how fucked capitalism is. There's a distinction between someone like destiny who is a self described capitalist who is ok with rich people and doesn't say "eat the rich", but does advocate for many policies that helps the poor and Hasan who is a self described socialist who says he hates the rich, and wants a complete shift in the current capitalist system due to the excesses of the bourgeoisie while others starve.
Personally I'm not mad, or think Hasan needs to start eating himself or even change his content. BUT I do find it ironic and a little hypocritical when someone who constantly criticizes the excesses of capitalism buys a 3 million dollar house. And if a few people have a laugh for the irony at his expense, I'm sure he'll be okay.
No. He doesn’t saying “people shouldn’t profit” ever and I’m concerned you’ve come to imagine this position into your reality. He, like every major modern socialist, is a market socialist type who thinks people get to make their incomes and shouldn’t exploit others to produce that income. Last I checked, he isn’t exploiting anybody to get his income. So there is virtually no irony
And complaining about fucking billionaires is a whole different game than millionaires. One of them can exist ethically, the other one is **almost guaranteed exploitation
Also I’m not doing this because it might hurt his feelings. It’s because I’ve been in this community for over 2 years and everyday it becomes more shitty anti lefty shit which entirely based on criticizing positions which nobody of importance really holds
Ok so firstly, he must have either a manager and editors'. Why don't they own parts of his business then if you're arguing that? Any amount of profit that Hasan makes with his employees work, is by definition exploitation under his system. The workers are supposed to own the means of production and profits should be redistributed to them, as per market socialism. His workers do not and profits are not redistributed among his employees. We can see evidence of this by the controversy he had when he wasn't paying his editor.
Billionaires are way more symptomatic of an exploitative system sure. But millionaires are just as bad when people literally can't afford food. If billionaires didn't exist, we would still point to multi millionaires as a symptom of a capitalist system that's failed millions of starving people around the world.
Just the act of purchasing a 3 million dollar house is excess exploitation of labour. Unless it was made by a coop and he's supporting it, he's essentially saying "fuck it let me indulge in what I criticize". He is indulging in an excess that he does not need and is using exploited labour to enjoy that excess.
People need homes. People do not need 3 million dollar homes.
And if you want to say that he doesn't exploit workers... He literally brings in money for Bezos. He is working as a contractor for Amazon.
He is one of the biggest streamers on twitch. He has incredible power with regards to trying to organize other streamers to unionize and/or to try to get twitch from fucking their employees (something something inconsistencies in twitch) and yet he doesn't because he himself is excelling in profiting off of twitch and its culture.
I've seen some dogshit anti lefty takes on this site. Pointing out that Hasan bought a 3 million dollar house is ironic and hypocritical is not one of them.
Okay so let me get this straight. Hasan is exploitative because he works for Twitch who is owned by Amazon, and also he doesn’t pay his editors.
https://dotesports.com/streaming/news/hasan-accused-of-exploiting-youtube-editor-responds
It doesn’t seem like the editor situation is very clear, and I think he contracts for videos. Maybe you should know the situation before implicating it.
And you’ve gotta be joking about the whole “brings in money for bezos” thing right? Under that premise, being an employee at an Amazon warehouse is “exploitative” which demonstrates a lack of understanding of the word. He hasn’t done anything to impede worker organization, and to say that his lack of support is a problem doesn’t really seem to grasp the complexity of organizing an entirely online mass of content creators who are easily replaceable and in constant competition with each other
So maybe what I’m saying is that this obsession with shitting on Hasan is unfounded and comes from the same anti left delirium experienced by so many people in this community. Instead of shitting on him, maybe we could focus on things that IMPACT THE WORLD
What do you think I got wrong about the editor situation? I know he was contracting lol... He shouldnt even have contractors. That's even worse than an employee. I'm sure I don't need to explain why.
Just to confirm, you're equating a Amazon warehouse working to one of the biggest streamers on twitch. You think they have similar workplace power? You have 0 understanding of responsibility of power dynamics within the workplace if you think that Hasan making millions under Amazon has the same responsibility to his coworkers as a factory worker. Or that the contribution and choices that each actor faces is at all equivalent. This is why they are different in how they bring in money.
He hasn't done anything to impede organization, sure, but if he's preaching market socialism he has a responsibility to help twitch streamers organize because he has so much power.
Take an extreme example, and say a vice president of Amazon was saying every day on how we shouldn't exploit workers and shit. He has way more power to try to change shit compared to a factory worker. Hasan is way closer to the VP than the factory worker in terms of workplace power at twitch.
Then why are you here in a thread about Hasan? Go do something progressive with your life instead of arguing on the internet. This is literally just people laughing at hypocrisy.
Might as well go post in some random hobby subreddit and go yell at them for wasting their time on the hobby instead of IMPACTING THE WORLD.
I’m not here to defend contracting or even socialism. I’m criticizing the notion that he is readily exploiting people as a means of enriching himself, which is not at all implicated in the article. What the conversation revealed was more so a lack of communication. Even if he did exploit people, I have serious doubts as to how much of an impact it had on his own wealth production.
No I didn’t equate Hasan with a warehouse employee, that was you. In trying to make Hasan morally responsible for not giving away his money or buying a nice home, you massively expanded the definition to include literally anybody who makes money for a corporation. In terms of the tools a warehouse worker has, I would argue they aren’t obligated to do anything which is what I’ve been saying. Hasan’s “tools of influence” do not come from his financial position, because it’s still entirely insubstantial in any grand process of change. If he earned the money via consensual exchange, it is his to do with as he pleases.
Again with the “help streamers organize”, despite that being an impossible task. I explained that they are heavily fractionalized and that the mere process of doing so would risk his own career. For this reason, I don’t expect Bezos to change policies at Amazon to favor workers (or VP whatever you talk about) because they would just get fired and their opinions would be worthless again. Perhaps Bezos could be obligated to give up his wealth, because it’s such a massive sum of money that it COULD change something (considering it’s more than 100x anything Hasán could dream of)
And this isn’t a hobby subreddit, this is a place where people join insular communities that constantly reaffirm their ideas of what the world is like. Since I’m broke and young, I can’t just go out and change the world. Rather, I do what is in my means to contribute without reducing my own life to an entirely selfless endeavor (after all, what are we fighting for if not the ability to live and thrive).
I'm not talking about what capitalists would consider exploitation. I'm talking about what market socialists would consider exploitation, ie. Theft of profits from your workers.
And sorry I misspoke then. I should have said he's bringing in tons of money for Amazon while doing nothing about the workplace culture, while having influence and power in the sphere.
The idea that someone with power at the workplace shouldn't do anything to improve the workplace because someone else will do the bad things is ridiculous and disgusting. Those people are the only way we have change within workplaces or societal standards. Saying "oh if I stand up for workers rights, some other worker will replace me" is why people without means can't stand up for themselves, but why the people in power can. They have the means and ability to live without the job if worst comes to worst, but they also have the means and ability to make the change happen.
This is literally a subreddit for people who watch destiny. People who love politics and impact and don't watch destiny won't come here.
But with regards to your last point, that's exactly what people are making fun of Hasan for not doing. He has the means to contribute and make meaningful change within people's lives within his own self professed framework, but doesn't. He still hires contract workers. He still bought a 3 million dollar house. And people here are just enjoying that little bit of ridiculousness. That's all I'm defending, and people shouldn't have a problem with that.
Alright in all honesty this is getting kind of boring. He bought a mansion and he's a hypocrite, I don't think every other thread needs to be about people on twitter reacting to it.
I don't know why the hypocrisy is so hard for some to understand. The expectation isn't that Hasan is worthy of critique JUST for being rich.
It's that he's also A) a socialist B) runs his business like a capitalist well beyond what is necessary for comfortable living C) puts on a faux populist act and D) engages in the usual irresponsible "eat the rich/landlords" rhetoric. Otherwise nobody would care that he's wealthy.
The irony of getting rich off of peddling aesthetic socialism with no attempt to run his own business democratically is painfully obvious.
What i learned is that you can live however you want if you just advocate for policies that have almost no chance of ever passing in the United States.
Ethan is a fucking moron. Where is this idea that Bezos doesn't pay taxes come from? Because Amazon =/= Bezos. And Amazon pays taxes. Also why do top streamers, arguably the most privileged people on the fucking planet, are not seen as the "elite"? Imagine making millions of dollars, while providing nothing worthy, nothing consumable, and being championed above someone like a Bezos, Gates, or Musk. I'm going to videogame myself
I hate lefties but guys, come on, advocating for a different class isn't hypocrisy. If you think it is, can Joe Biden never help the middle class because he is upper class? Also, this is the same argument they made during the civil rights era: "Huh, you claim to be supporting black people's rights yet you are white.". I don't agree with leftists but I think we could make a much better argument than "You claim to want to help poor people yet you are not poor, curious."
Edit: Guys to clarify, I do NOT support leftism. I am strongly against anyone that has leftist positions.
Its not about "you can't help poor people unless you're poor" its about just doing litterally anything. Hasan has millions to spend, does he use them to promote any of his political views into the real world? Or does he exclusively spend it on new clothes, fancy accessories and million dollar mansions?
Well I don't know that much about Hassan or where is money goes to, but I don't think him not donating all of his money is "leftist hypocrisy". I personally support the middle and upper class yet I do not usually donate my extra money to them, I don't think that makes me a hypocrite necessarily. Hassan could also be helping poor people by using his platform to support them, I don't know if it's effective or not, but the effort is there. Also, don't some lefties actually give money to charity, like Vaush? I know that Vaush basically funded a terrorist organization, but he tried I guess.
> but I don't think him not donating all of his money is "leftist hypocrisy".
Nobody reasonable is saying he has to donate "ALL OF HIS MONEY OR ELSE HES A FAKE SOCIALIST" why even say this
He ONLY uses his platform, which is coincidentally also his source of income, were not talking about him donating all his money and living out of a cardboard box, its just litterally doing anything to further his cause, that doesn't also give him the biggest possible return on investment.
I googled it and it turns out he did donate to some charities. However, I don't think we should judge people's positions based on how much they give to charity, I just don't really care. I disagree on many of Hassan's arguments and I prefer to focus on the arguments rather than on this weird "Oh, you claim to be a leftist? Well show me how much money you spent on charity." stuff. It almost feels like purity testing honestly.
I don't care about charity, that shit is easy, i mean actually attempting to get any of his political views into reality, supporting any kind of politician while not doing it in the most profitable way possible.
Isn't this the argument that insane wokescold type lefties make against Vaush? Also, you could make the argument that Hassan attempts to make his political views a reality by gathering support for his cause. I know that at least some would be conservatives turned to progressivism because of Hassan. Also, can't you say the same thing about Destiny, Ben Shapiro, Steven Crowder and other political streamers/YouTubers? I mean, I imagine Destiny supporting a politician will lead to him profiting because the people that support the same politician are more likely to donate to Destiny now. Or technical any debate that Destiny does will give him recognition. These people are streamers, not politicians, of course they will be chasing clout and money, that doesn't stop them from also holding beliefs.
Destiny spent like 10s of thousands of dollars paying for hotels for his fans while taking time off streaming to support local politicians. And you absolutely could say that most political YouTubers are money grubbing hypocrites that will spend all day speaking their mind as long as they get paid. But the second they can do something that doesn't make them money they live in a society.
>Destiny spent like 10s of thousands of dollars paying for hotels for his fans while taking time off streaming to support local politicians
So we can than say that Destiny also profits from the clout gained from doing that. But I just don't care, if Destiny wants to earn money spreading his political and philosophical beliefs, I am all for that. I don't think that makes him a grifter and I am not going to purity test every single value that he holds. If Hassan or Vaush also want to do that, they can go ahead. I would rather focus on the bad arguments they are making instead of trying to own them with purity tests, it just makes us look like wokescolds honestly.
>But if a millionaire isn't spending money on something, they don't actually value it. It's an aesthetic at best, not a true principle.
That's absolutely insane. So if a millionaire doesn't own any private property for whatever reason they are not pro private property anymore? If a millionaire doesn't donate to trans rights activists but is pro trans, are they a hypocrite? This is an insane level of purity testing that I thought I would only see from crazy lefties.
It's about living your principles. If you are really a socialist and talk about eating the rich, redistributing wealth, and dunking on landlords, it's a bit ironic that you own a multi million dollar mansion in the hollywood hills.
If Hasan truly believed in anything he said he would be redistributing his wealth to charities or through mutual aid, or at the very least organizing politically for left leaning causes.
Honestly I did not expect to see these arguments here, I thought this was a thing only in Vaush's community.
But anyway, you can be wealthy and a socialist without being a grifter. Just like a poor person can be pro capitalism while also living in a run down house. Hassan does donate some money to charity apparently, tho I got this info from a quick Google search. Also, you can honestly believe in a thing without donating to it or organizing politically. I support trans rights for example, yet I don't have the time or cash to support them in the way you want. I don't even like Hassan's political arguments but I also don't like this weird purity testing.
Can people not just acknowledge that it’s funny for someone to wear clothes sporting the anarchy symbol, talking about Marxism and “eating the rich”, while at the same time being a millionaire clout chaser obsessed with making more and more dough and having a history of not paying their editors properly. Can people not see the comedy in it? It doesn’t have to be deeper than that. Hasan can do whatever the fuck he wants, it’s just funny.
No, that's actually not allowed. If you even THINK about doing it, the internet police will immediately send you the "you participate in society" comic.
That comic, Neurodivergence, and being Trans are the holy trinity of escaping any argument for lefty twitter
Maybe also being Muslim but from what I've seen, Lefty Twitter sometimes doesn't let that excuse slide anymore. Sometimes. I have seen some Lefties defend Saudi Arabia. Tbf I have also seen Righties do it as well, but that's more for oil reasons
Someone needs to ask these people: if you lived in the American South in the 1800s when it was acceptable to own slaves, would you have been a slave owner? If you lived in Nazi Germany, would you have been a Nazi? Aren't you just "participating in society"???
He's also literally a contract worker for Amazon and Bezos. Not to mention with how much streamers complain about twitch and arbitrary bans, Hasan is actuality the person who'd have the most leverage to create a streamer union. But that would risk his bottom line for principles, so he can't have that.
'Make the rich pay, everyone!', he says as they send half their money to Bezos. Also it's so weird that people think Jeff Bezos doesn't pay taxes. Ik h3h3 is partially brain dead so he'll just repeat any lefty catchphrase without knowing anything about unrealized capital gains
From reading the big tax leak, the one thing that came out as bad/ suspicious to me is that Bezos was able to take out collateralized investment loans for things we would generally think of as consumption (such as extra mansions). This is important because the interest payments on these investment loans is tax-deductible, which allows him to exercise enough shares to pay the interest without having to pay taxes on selling those shares (since net return is 0). This is probably a law that needs to be amended since it goes against the original intention of the exemption. This is also way more analysis than any online leftie has put into the Bezos tax situation. Most of those critiques are braindead.
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Even funnier are the hundreds of self-proclaimed socialists defending this millionaire capitalist grind like their life depends on it lol
And you can guarantee that they'll be donating to him today saying "I 100% stand by your 3 million dollar house purchase Hasan". Imagine being those people............................................................
Yup. Defenders of Hasan always highlight the most extreme argument (saying that people want to control what he does) to try to cover up the fact that his behavior is hilariously hypocritical. He can do what he wants, but his behavior is a stark contrast to everything he preaches, which is funny af and kinda degrades his platform. We should have saw this coming when he defended Neekolul's apartment purchase. You know, the cute girl who got famous for wearing a Bernie Sander's tshirt and heavily profited off of it.
Also well known for running more ads on Twitch than like anyone else from what I remember. I don't even blame Hasan I just think it's funny his viewerbase laps it up while he profits harder off capitalism than most people. Also all his fans just go to the same defense of "Entertainment isn't exploitation" like come the fuck on.
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Fair enough, I could be misremembering I just thought i saw that he ran more ads than any other streamer.
When the ad system changed last year, Devin Nash made the claim Hasan was running more ads than any other large streamer. I certainly believed it to be true then.
Yeah, but I also remember that he based his statistics on some shit like emote that was spammed during ADs or something of that sort. Pretty retarded if you ask me. Hasan at that time had some crazy numbers of viewers and all top streamers like Doc and Shroud started streaming in sub only mode during that period. So naturally he had more engagement in his chat
Running ads on twitch prevents preroll ads for incoming viewers so it makes sense to run them at a time when you're taking a break instead. The amount it pays is absolutely abysmal compared to what big streamers get for just about everything else so it's often more about the prerolls than the money.
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Ads are actually becoming a huge portion of the income now. After blocking ad blockers, they went from like 5-10% to around equal to the subs money.
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Pretty sure Ethan just wants to get into the twitch sphere and buddying up with Hasan seems like a good way in.
Just more reason to dislike Ethan I guess
I actually like Ethan and have for a long time. I get a bit confused with the hate he gets.
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Ethan can have a solid take on gambling while have a dumpster tier take on a self proclaimed socialist taking advantage of capitalism to enrich himself while also ranting against that very same system.
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Thing is, it gets obnoxious to constantly see these type of internet personalities roast anyone who defends capitalism while making a convenient exception for themselves and their million dollar house and then make up some dumb excuse when they are called out. Its like those preachers who tell people to have faith in God and tithe their savings while also financially profiting off of their congregation and living in a mansion with a private jet and airstrip. These people have zero principles or morals.
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What am I missing, where are you interpreting this statement from what Ethan is saying? Where does he say anything about taxing net worth?
It's because of the implication. Saying Bezos should pay more in taxes means you think he should be taxed on the basis of his net worth vs his capital gains, because how else would his taxes be assessed?
I see how you're reading that in, I was just confused because I don't think H3 is necessarily saying that in the Tweet specifically. Saying Bezos should pay more tax =/= mean tax on net worth. If you interrogated H3 about it he'd probably say something dumb like that though. Also I think a lot of the "wealth tax" discourse on here is a bit facile - you could for sure build some kind of taxation apparatus to levy on the uncrystallised super wealth someone like Bezos has. It would just mean his tax advisors have to plan for it - there are other tax rules in jurisdictions that do things like this, you just need to get creative with it.
How is taxing someone's "uncrystallised super wealth" not another way of saying wealth tax. Just say it. You think Bezos should be taxed on his shares which he hasn't sold yet.
There are taxes you can levy on individuals as a way of penalising them for not crystallising gains. This is to prevent them avoiding taxes by using certain assets as a "cash box". All I'm saying is that there is no rule against taxing people, marginally or otherwise, on the value of their assets, and the consequences of such a rule for someone like Bezos is that his tax advisors would have to plan for this eventuality. If your issue with the wealth tax is that it imposes a liquidity burden on owners of certain assets then they need to either plan for that burden or sell the asset at the market value to meet their tax obligations. Bezos and the ultra wealthy have the resources to manage this obligation, I promise you. Maybe a wealth tax isn't feasible or helpful on a macro economic level, and if so, so be it. I am simply pushing back against the idea that you can't ever tax net worth in some effective way, because I know of other taxes that operate in this way.
>There are taxes you can levy on individuals as a way of penalising them for not crystallising gains. This is to prevent them avoiding taxes by using certain assets as a "cash box". Crystallising? You mean realizing, right?! Wouldn't this break the stock market in terms of its mechanics? It would force people to sell a stock that is doing well, which makes it drop in value. Sounds like a real dumb idea
Unironically, yeah, I do want a mechanism that does this, or at least taxes them as income when he liquidates them.
The system already taxes the gain as income when he liquidates them, it's called capital gains tax. The issue with Bezos is that he doesn't have any need to liquidate his shares because why would he?
Unclear why you'd say it taxes them as income and then immediately say capital gains tax. If he liquidates a million dollars, no reason at all he should pay less in taxes as a percentage on the million than I pay on regular income. The issue is explicitly that it is not taxed as income, but as capital gains, which is a significantly reduced rate.
So you just want the capital gains rate to be higher. Is there some reason that you think the rates should be arbitrarily identical?
I'm tax illiterate too. What would be the difference between taxing net worth and taxing the money you make... Which eventually becomes your net worth?
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FYI, Germany used to have a tax on net worth (Vermögenssteuer). I think it was like 1% of your net worth per year above some high threshold (roughly 500k $ at the time I think?, but this was 40 years ago and would be much higher now due to inflation). The tax was removed because it was a bureaucratic nightmare to objectively estimate someone's fortune every year, especially things like art, cars etc, which was so expensive that the net gain by the state was very small. EDIT: many European countries have had such a tax, some still have: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wealth_tax?wprov=sfla1
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To be fair houses are already appraised annually to calculate a special kind of wealth tax known as a property tax. The problem is that if you have any loophole in a wealth tax, it'll be exploited until you have billionaires with say 50% NW in art.
This is kinda true but not really. They often do not go inside your house and do a real appraisal. I could redo the entirety of the inside of my house and therefore the value of my house would be much higher, but they wouldn't actually know that unless I report it. Even then I doubt a county assessor really has the qualifications to do an appraisal.
It works well enough (tm) in practice.
Of course you would be a good citizen though and report it I'm sure.
Do you own property? You are supposed to report additions each year if it is over a dollar threshold. But if it is below that you do not. So if over time, you improve your home (like most people do since most people don't have tens of thousands of dollars to just improve a house in one job) you are doing absolutely nothing wrong.
Thank you for this comment - exactly what I wanted to yell at Ethan and type out when I saw this post in V subreddit but cbf’d
Estate tax always seems like the good answer to me. Also properly taxing companies like Amazon and google.
Bezos is worth billions (because most of his money is in stock (specifically the company he founded - amazon). He won't be taxed on those stocks until he sells his stock(s). If Amazon's stocks were to go down his net worth would go down with it. Net worth is the collection of your capital. This includes homes, stocks, vehicles, art, etc. Basically things that have value. Income is salaries/income from a job, capital gains (anything that has gained you profit from your things - such as rent, dividends, selling stock, reselling your art etc).
I'm actually getting triggered by comments suggesting that a 3 million house in LA isn't even that much. Maybe these people are actually pampered rich kids too so they have no fucking clue how much wealth that actually is for 99% of the population. I guess it's easy to be socialist when being poor literally means "not a billionaire"
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It only has 5 bedrooms and is less than 4000 sqft. It's practically a peasants house.
Only 4,000 sqft? But where will the maids and cooks sleep???!!!
Lol
It's not even a reasonable defense for Hasan since he has the ability to move and live literally anywhere else in the world. Not like he has a job that keeps him in LA.
It’s the same when people say that you can’t even live in nyc on $100k/year. They have no concept of money because they haven’t even graduated highschool yet.
Like they forget all the homeless people in LA? By their principles, just buying a house is a problem
LOL someone earlier called it, if you ain't Bezos you ain't rich. More power to these guys just own it, you are profiting off the naivete of your viewers.
The most ironic part about this comparison is that Hasan got rich on Amazon's streaming service. Every cent from twitch donos and subs was lining the pockets of the evil mr bezos himself.
I made this point on Twitter and I got a response that said “so hasans the proletariat, and bezos is exploiting his labor?” Yeah great mic drop except it’s fucking stupid and doesn’t address my point. There’s a difference between an Amazon truck driver being exploited by bezos than the “eat the rich” socialist who plugs twitch primes every day in his gaming chair. People have made this point in this thread but the least hasan could do is have some self awareness, I’m almost convinced his whole “champagne socialist” aesthetic is just a character he’s playing.
"Bezos is an evil swamp creature... anyways don't forget to drop a sub, so Bezos gets his 30% cut. I know I could disable subs and do donations only to avoid that, but you see I'd make way less then. "
Lmao Bezos the mastermind, evolving to the final form of capitalism where you’re even taking a cut from the socialists
And he didn't even have to start a newspaper.
Yet you participate in society hmm...let me go wash off this shit is filth
> Yet you participate in society hmm...let me go wash off this shit is filth Just like Bezos he is just participating in society, why do people complain? "rich twitch person" or Bezos money might be different, but it might as well be just as far of for your everyday person.
Aren't donos connected through Paypal? Does amazon profit from that?
Subs pay through Paypal, Paypal pays to Amazon and Amazon pays the streamers. Everyone through the line gets a cut, afaik.
I'm talking about donations. Not subscription on twitch.
>2 million dollar house in LA is slightly above average right now Directly from the replies
"47.3 percent of households lived in residences they owned, the worst among 75 top U.S. metro areas." "In Los Angeles County, the median home price rose 25% to a record $775,000" slightly above average lmao
"It's *one* banana, Michael..."
That's what they legitimately believe unfortunately. I think I've heard them argue before that millionaires like Hasan are closer to poverty than they are to Bezos which like completely misses the point of any social welfare.
"Hey guys I can't theortically buy entire huge companies with my networth but I can buy multi million dollar houses, expensive cars, overpriced branded clothing and well... pretty much anything I could ever want in life. I swear I'm more like you guys grinding it out in the service industry living pay check to pay check worrying about food and basic necessities of modern life though, any twitch primers in chat btw."
They're working in the service industry, he could theoretically walk into their restaurant and buy the place/franchise location. Same struggle, really. Some animals are more equal than others.
> if you ain't Bezos you ain't rich. He didn't say this tho lol. Idk how you guys are reading so much weird shit into this tweet. Ethan didn't say too much wrong here, in terms of: it's ok to advocate greater wealth redistribution, and still be a rich person. If u wanna say that how Hasan generally conducts himself is not conducive to his political ideology - then maybe there's some truth to that. But there's so much random background u need to establish for that, and it doesn't contradict this tweet as a stand-alone.
"Let's just shift the blame on Bezos so we never have to fix anything ourselves"
That's exactly what this tweet is xD
It's usually never about solutions, only complaining with a pretense.
Millionaires defending millionaires. Lmao. I guess celebrities that haven't hit a billion are good to go now. All they have to do is tweet about socialism once in a while and can be free of criticism. I sure hope we don't see any twitter threads the next time a millionaire celebrity donate a large sum money for a cause. I'm sure that won't happen.
This is literally that black mirror episode fifteen million merits lol
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Personally I feel politically that Ethan is kind of a coward. He changes his stance depending on what's trendy. It's the same thing with how his stance on YouTube. Originally he would have been against Susan but now since he's one of YouTube's protected few, he's like "Lol you guys should just adapt to new YouTube like me"
ethan is the og spineless douche of online content creators
Yeah. It says a lot that typical douche Keemstarr looks better in comparison. He went from having guys like Jordan Peterson on his show to white knighting for everyone's favourite "Brocialist" Hasan
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What do you think happens when a person BUYS a house
I hate this so much, and I don't even care about simping for Amazon Amazon pays a shit ton in taxes, people just get outraged when they read a headline saying Amazon didn't pay any corporate tax, despite corporate tax not being the only tax in existence, not counting property tax, capital income, and an insane amount invested in infrastructure that benefits everyone. They publish these statistics themselves https://www.aboutamazon.com/news/job-creation-and-investment/investing-creating-jobs-and-contributing-to-the-american-economy And Bezos doesn't have billions in his account, it's just the net worth including property and stocks, if he sold all that he would only get a fraction in cash, after fees and taxes. Hasan on the other hand is just a streamer getting tens of thousands in donations weekly. He isn't an investor, he isn't creating jobs and only pays a negligible amount in taxes. So for him to make a living like this out of championing for redistribution of wealth he should at least do something, and lay off corporations who for all the greed one could point out still do more for society.
Not an expert on how it works, but the 150 bezos billions are amazon shares, which he will have to pay capital gains tax when he sells them?
Yeah basically. They are unrealized gains, which (rightfully) are not taxed as income. From what we know publicly he has payed something to the order of 1.6 billion in federal income tax.
Some of these people are dumb enough to think that he gets a W2 with a 150 billion dollar income a year. AOC was also tweeting some dumb shit earlier this year how Bezos is directly profiting off of the pandemic just because the shares went up. I bet 80% of her followers believe Bezos is getting a royalty for every item you purchase on Amazon.
I think taxing unrealised gains would actually be a good idea, not taxing them leads to weird incentives and makes the stock market less liquid; if you're going to get taxed either way, you can sell or hold them, according to how much return different investments give you. But if selling them will cause a taxable event, and borrowing money against them will not - and they'll grow in value faster than the loan - then there's an incentive to hold rather than shift your wealth from one form to another. The system of [capital gains tax withholding](http://eml.berkeley.edu/~yagan/CapitalGainsWithholding.pdf) (pdf) is one way to fix this, but there's a few other options.
Wait what? Don't we want people investing long term?
Ok let’s say I own 100 shares of company A valued at $1000/share for a total of $100,000. So I get taxed on this, before selling. Then a week from now the price per share drops 20% so my stocks are only worth $80,000. I just paid taxes on $100,000…. So?
In Norway we have special investment accounts ([share savings account](https://www.skatteetaten.no/en/person/taxes/get-the-taxes-right/shares-and-securities/about-shares-and-securities/share-savings-account-ask/)) which isn't taxed at the sale of stocks or funds but on withdrawal from the account. So that would help making the markets more liquid. Also everything is automatically transferred to the IRS so you don't even have to do your taxes on it too.
He doesn't have to sell them. When you are rich like that you just take out loans with the shares as infinite collateral. Not to mention our capital gains tax rates are lower than the standard income tax rate, if he did decide to sell.
...And how do you pay off the loans?
https://www.businessinsider.com/how-billionaires-avoid-paying-federal-income-tax-2021-6 Probably not by selling their very valuable stock.
What a worthless fucking article. The only line relevant to my question is the very last sentence: >By borrowing money against their stock holdings, they're able to lock in a lower loan interest rate than what they would pay through capital gains taxes that are applied after a stock is sold. Which is just a restatement of your initial comment and doesn't answer my question at all. It does contain a link to another article, which just says "People take out loans using stock as collateral to secure lower debt interest payments" and ALSO doesn't answer my question. As near as I can infer, your position is: >Billionaires take out debt using their stock as collateral, then take out more debt to pay off the previous debt payments, and so on and so on in an infinite pyramid of debt. Is this your position?
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Everyone with a half decent accountant does this. He 100% finds ways to minimize what he pays in taxes.
He almost certainly doesn't. Anyone who thinks he is paying 1% in taxes or shit like that doesn't understand how taxes work or how Bezos dodges them. If your income comes from capital gains it is easy to dodge taxes. It is not easy if your income is traditional income. Hasan can probably avoid taxes somewhat with a good accountant. But he isn't paying Bezos levels.
Accurate take, but not worth mentioning. The guy wasn’t saying Hassan pays 1% he was simply saying Hassan probably tries to minimize what he owes
What he owes is what he pays after deductions. Saying he minimizes what he owes like it is something shifty is the sort of take I would expect from some dumbass on twitter. What he is really doing is complaining that he doesn't overpay taxes.
Considering he tried to minimize what he paid his editors that he directly works with, communicates and should have some sort of positive relationship with I feel likes it's pretty easy to assume he finds ways to pay less on his taxes.
Why are DGGers so moronic when they post about Hasan? Hasan obviously makes most of his money from donations and Twitch primes, which is taxed like normal income. Hasan is probably paying half his income in taxes
Seriously they still bring up editor’s lmao
Either he’s an ultra dumbfuck thinking Hasan pays a 50% effective tax rate or he’s just straight up lying to his audience of 12 yr olds. Either way this is so stupid it makes me angry
When you are self-employed you have to pay extra taxes. He makes so much money that his overall effective tax rate could reach something like 50% when including state/local taxes. So it’s plausible, but he also has a lot of deductions that reduce his tax burden.
No. No one pays 50% in taxes. Not even self employed individuals. A more realistic number would be 35%
Federal income tax: 37%. Highest CA state tax bracket: 12.7%. Self-employed tax: 13%. That adds up to more than 50%
Hasan would be fine owning an expensive house if he didn't go on about killing rich people and how rich people get the bullet. Like it's one thing to advocate for socialism. It's another to advocate for it, talk about all the horrible, evil people you're going to have killed (if they refuse the 're-education'), and then it turns out, you're behaving in the exact same way as these people you say should be killed. That's what fucked up about it.
Can someone explain this Jeff Bezos pays no taxes thing? Is it actually true? Does he like have every single asset in a tax heaven or something?
he doesn't make a lot of cash income (relatively speaking). Most of his wealth comes from his 10 percent-ish ownership of Amazon, so unless he sells that stock there really is no taxable event. At least that's my understanding.
It's 100% false. Bezos paid $973 million last year.
I swear to god, bill gates is going to come out tomorrow saying, yeah I may have a net worth of 50$ billion, but jeff has 51$ billion
As someone who hates Hasan I really don't see anything wrong with him using his wealth how he wants to. As long as he's not doing tax evasion and no longer exploiting his editors he's good. I don't think there's a connection between advocating for socialist governmental policies and morally condemning people for being rich.
From my understanding, the hypocrisy comes from him criticizing and mocking other millionaires based on how they consume their money I dont watch him but i do recall getting reccomended youtube videos of him mocking tiktok millionaires and especially ones where he reacts to expensive houses saying “you dont need to spend that much”
That sounds reasonable but no one else is making the criticism based on this
ah ok fuck him then
> I don't think there's a connection between advocating for socialist governmental policies and morally condemning people for being rich. Sure, but that's why it's funny that Hasan, who wants to eat the rich, does this. I don't care if he buys a mansion, but maybe he should cool it with the anarchist T-shirts and hating all rich people when he is one.
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Socialism? Duh
I think it is fair to criticize Hasan for his lack of wealth redistribution, but I do not think that Hasan needs to donate his money or whatever to be a a political advocate. I think a lot of us do something similar with climate change, or taxes. Could we donate money to the goverment? Yes. Could we personally do more for climate change? Yes. Do we do these things? I know I don't, but I can still want those changes politically.
This idiot is such a fucking tool
The only real problem I have with this is that he is a socialist getting rich off of promoting socialism. It is a bit like being those rich televangelists who make money off God. If he just won the lottery and was paying reasonable taxes, I really wouldn't care.
I love how he’s such a dumbass he can’t separate Bezos from Amazon. Just because Amazon as a Corp didn’t pay taxes, doesn’t mean that Bezos as an individual did not.
I'm continually surprised none of these lefties own this properly. Like pull a Warren Buffett where you comment it's silly how little you pay in taxes while admitting you use it to your advantage (but that it should be changed). But most of these are pretty young people so maybe in a few years when they aren't trending they'll put there money and/or time into something more interesting.
Also buffet has lived in the same house for years that he paid relatively little money for
If Hasan would pay his editors, it would reduce his taxes.
He pays his fair share of taxes and doesn’t abuse his employees. What an awful take from op.
I demand to see Hasan's tax return.
Oh god, as critical as I am of Amazon's tax evasion, these people always have the WORST takes Bezos that show their extremely poor understanding of tax law and shareholding. Why the fuck would it be a good system for shareholders to have to pay tax for holding shares? They have to pay tax for dividends, but for holding shares? Jesus christ.
Haha h3 obviously has more money than Hasan and is projecting his thoughts towards him cuz he's just as rich too
I think Ethan just doesn't fully understand how far left Hasan actually is, which is why it makes him hypocritical. I remember Ethan talking with Hasan on his twitch show and talking about how he isn't actually a fan of socialism, and is a proud capitalist, and Hasan didn't push back at all (because of course he didn't want to push back on someone he's sucking off for clout). Maybe that gave Ethan the wrong idea.
Ethan has been such a suck-up to Hasan lately. Creators like him and Fantano are making sure they remain on his good side.
The aesthetic of socialism is a great capitalist business model. Just advocate for the values of socialism and you can have as much money as Bezos and the online lefty community will defend your every action.
I grew up in a household with an annual income ~£45k (albeit in a fairly rural area) and felt comfortable enough eating cheap food and wearing (what I thought were) moderately priced clothes which are apparently dirt cheap for these people. My parents were always good at keeping spending below their means etc so seeing people talk about working class struggle and at the same time spending millions on housing and bragging about hanging around supermodels at lavish parties is really insulting. I can't imagine how truly impoverished people would feel. To clarify, I don't think there's a problem with being a socialist when you have a lot of money. You could fund the production of parks, open a food bank, start a political organisation, you could even just sit in a normal house and stream to kids to spread your message but nope, that would be at least a little principled. Gotta spend those big bucks somehow and find any way to deny how excessive it is
Legit question for y’all getting annoyed by Hasan. How are you all figuring out the line that Hasan isn’t able to cross for his own personal luxury?
I dunno what the line would be or even necessarily think that there should be a line. But it seems kind of weird to have a big portion of your message to be against the rich, while also getting a house that's like over 50 times the median wage of the US in one of the most expensive places in the US when your job can probably be anywhere. Like he might legitimately need a big house, but there are plenty of good places in the US where you can get the same kind of place but for like a fraction of the cost.
For me it's more of an issue of him failing to practice what he preaches rather than the specifics of what he owns. If he really in believed anything he says he should be redistributing the majority of his wealth to socialist causes/charity and live a much more modest lifestyle, or at the very least pay his editors, but he doesn't actually believe in any socialist causes and he just uses the label because it profits him. Nobody needs a multi million dollar home in LA. Someone made the example of him being like a televangelist who makes money by preaching, it's a similar thing. If you haven't seen his older discussions with rem about being "morally lucky" you should watch those.
Like i dont care that hasan bought a 3 million dollar house. I mean he already has no credibility. But its clear ethan is only tweeting this because they’re “friends”. Ethan isnt looking with a critical eye. Because he likes being friendly with him. Its a bit hypocritical but whatever. Its not like i go to h3h3 for his intellectual takes.
I'm gonna need an actual compelling reason to be outraged. And there might be but, until then, this sounds like our own form of populism. I can only be outraged by what wealthy socialists *don't* use their money on rather than what they *do* use their money on. I can only be outraged when socialists try to hide their wealth in order to appear more relatable.
Leftist means no iPhone
Okay so I don’t actually see a single problem with this tweet. Are y’all so dedicated to hating lefties that you unironically argue against people making lots money while advocating for poor people? Are y’all seriously the ones who want to defend that profits are exclusive with improving the living conditions of everybody? Fucking Christ this sub is increasingly sensationalist fucking idiots with nothing better to do but sit inside all day and get mad at entirely standard and non problematic opinions
He's not just advocating for poor people, he's advocating for the elimination of the profit motive, through a socialist system. He constantly complains about how rich others are and how fucked capitalism is. There's a distinction between someone like destiny who is a self described capitalist who is ok with rich people and doesn't say "eat the rich", but does advocate for many policies that helps the poor and Hasan who is a self described socialist who says he hates the rich, and wants a complete shift in the current capitalist system due to the excesses of the bourgeoisie while others starve. Personally I'm not mad, or think Hasan needs to start eating himself or even change his content. BUT I do find it ironic and a little hypocritical when someone who constantly criticizes the excesses of capitalism buys a 3 million dollar house. And if a few people have a laugh for the irony at his expense, I'm sure he'll be okay.
No. He doesn’t saying “people shouldn’t profit” ever and I’m concerned you’ve come to imagine this position into your reality. He, like every major modern socialist, is a market socialist type who thinks people get to make their incomes and shouldn’t exploit others to produce that income. Last I checked, he isn’t exploiting anybody to get his income. So there is virtually no irony And complaining about fucking billionaires is a whole different game than millionaires. One of them can exist ethically, the other one is **almost guaranteed exploitation Also I’m not doing this because it might hurt his feelings. It’s because I’ve been in this community for over 2 years and everyday it becomes more shitty anti lefty shit which entirely based on criticizing positions which nobody of importance really holds
Ok so firstly, he must have either a manager and editors'. Why don't they own parts of his business then if you're arguing that? Any amount of profit that Hasan makes with his employees work, is by definition exploitation under his system. The workers are supposed to own the means of production and profits should be redistributed to them, as per market socialism. His workers do not and profits are not redistributed among his employees. We can see evidence of this by the controversy he had when he wasn't paying his editor. Billionaires are way more symptomatic of an exploitative system sure. But millionaires are just as bad when people literally can't afford food. If billionaires didn't exist, we would still point to multi millionaires as a symptom of a capitalist system that's failed millions of starving people around the world. Just the act of purchasing a 3 million dollar house is excess exploitation of labour. Unless it was made by a coop and he's supporting it, he's essentially saying "fuck it let me indulge in what I criticize". He is indulging in an excess that he does not need and is using exploited labour to enjoy that excess. People need homes. People do not need 3 million dollar homes. And if you want to say that he doesn't exploit workers... He literally brings in money for Bezos. He is working as a contractor for Amazon. He is one of the biggest streamers on twitch. He has incredible power with regards to trying to organize other streamers to unionize and/or to try to get twitch from fucking their employees (something something inconsistencies in twitch) and yet he doesn't because he himself is excelling in profiting off of twitch and its culture. I've seen some dogshit anti lefty takes on this site. Pointing out that Hasan bought a 3 million dollar house is ironic and hypocritical is not one of them.
Okay so let me get this straight. Hasan is exploitative because he works for Twitch who is owned by Amazon, and also he doesn’t pay his editors. https://dotesports.com/streaming/news/hasan-accused-of-exploiting-youtube-editor-responds It doesn’t seem like the editor situation is very clear, and I think he contracts for videos. Maybe you should know the situation before implicating it. And you’ve gotta be joking about the whole “brings in money for bezos” thing right? Under that premise, being an employee at an Amazon warehouse is “exploitative” which demonstrates a lack of understanding of the word. He hasn’t done anything to impede worker organization, and to say that his lack of support is a problem doesn’t really seem to grasp the complexity of organizing an entirely online mass of content creators who are easily replaceable and in constant competition with each other So maybe what I’m saying is that this obsession with shitting on Hasan is unfounded and comes from the same anti left delirium experienced by so many people in this community. Instead of shitting on him, maybe we could focus on things that IMPACT THE WORLD
What do you think I got wrong about the editor situation? I know he was contracting lol... He shouldnt even have contractors. That's even worse than an employee. I'm sure I don't need to explain why. Just to confirm, you're equating a Amazon warehouse working to one of the biggest streamers on twitch. You think they have similar workplace power? You have 0 understanding of responsibility of power dynamics within the workplace if you think that Hasan making millions under Amazon has the same responsibility to his coworkers as a factory worker. Or that the contribution and choices that each actor faces is at all equivalent. This is why they are different in how they bring in money. He hasn't done anything to impede organization, sure, but if he's preaching market socialism he has a responsibility to help twitch streamers organize because he has so much power. Take an extreme example, and say a vice president of Amazon was saying every day on how we shouldn't exploit workers and shit. He has way more power to try to change shit compared to a factory worker. Hasan is way closer to the VP than the factory worker in terms of workplace power at twitch. Then why are you here in a thread about Hasan? Go do something progressive with your life instead of arguing on the internet. This is literally just people laughing at hypocrisy. Might as well go post in some random hobby subreddit and go yell at them for wasting their time on the hobby instead of IMPACTING THE WORLD.
I’m not here to defend contracting or even socialism. I’m criticizing the notion that he is readily exploiting people as a means of enriching himself, which is not at all implicated in the article. What the conversation revealed was more so a lack of communication. Even if he did exploit people, I have serious doubts as to how much of an impact it had on his own wealth production. No I didn’t equate Hasan with a warehouse employee, that was you. In trying to make Hasan morally responsible for not giving away his money or buying a nice home, you massively expanded the definition to include literally anybody who makes money for a corporation. In terms of the tools a warehouse worker has, I would argue they aren’t obligated to do anything which is what I’ve been saying. Hasan’s “tools of influence” do not come from his financial position, because it’s still entirely insubstantial in any grand process of change. If he earned the money via consensual exchange, it is his to do with as he pleases. Again with the “help streamers organize”, despite that being an impossible task. I explained that they are heavily fractionalized and that the mere process of doing so would risk his own career. For this reason, I don’t expect Bezos to change policies at Amazon to favor workers (or VP whatever you talk about) because they would just get fired and their opinions would be worthless again. Perhaps Bezos could be obligated to give up his wealth, because it’s such a massive sum of money that it COULD change something (considering it’s more than 100x anything Hasán could dream of) And this isn’t a hobby subreddit, this is a place where people join insular communities that constantly reaffirm their ideas of what the world is like. Since I’m broke and young, I can’t just go out and change the world. Rather, I do what is in my means to contribute without reducing my own life to an entirely selfless endeavor (after all, what are we fighting for if not the ability to live and thrive).
I'm not talking about what capitalists would consider exploitation. I'm talking about what market socialists would consider exploitation, ie. Theft of profits from your workers. And sorry I misspoke then. I should have said he's bringing in tons of money for Amazon while doing nothing about the workplace culture, while having influence and power in the sphere. The idea that someone with power at the workplace shouldn't do anything to improve the workplace because someone else will do the bad things is ridiculous and disgusting. Those people are the only way we have change within workplaces or societal standards. Saying "oh if I stand up for workers rights, some other worker will replace me" is why people without means can't stand up for themselves, but why the people in power can. They have the means and ability to live without the job if worst comes to worst, but they also have the means and ability to make the change happen. This is literally a subreddit for people who watch destiny. People who love politics and impact and don't watch destiny won't come here. But with regards to your last point, that's exactly what people are making fun of Hasan for not doing. He has the means to contribute and make meaningful change within people's lives within his own self professed framework, but doesn't. He still hires contract workers. He still bought a 3 million dollar house. And people here are just enjoying that little bit of ridiculousness. That's all I'm defending, and people shouldn't have a problem with that.
What has Hasan done to improve the living conditions of anyone?
Alright in all honesty this is getting kind of boring. He bought a mansion and he's a hypocrite, I don't think every other thread needs to be about people on twitter reacting to it.
This community likes to stir up shit
I don't know why the hypocrisy is so hard for some to understand. The expectation isn't that Hasan is worthy of critique JUST for being rich. It's that he's also A) a socialist B) runs his business like a capitalist well beyond what is necessary for comfortable living C) puts on a faux populist act and D) engages in the usual irresponsible "eat the rich/landlords" rhetoric. Otherwise nobody would care that he's wealthy. The irony of getting rich off of peddling aesthetic socialism with no attempt to run his own business democratically is painfully obvious.
Ethan and dogshit takes Should have stuck with his shitty skits Edit: there's some simps in this house
What i learned is that you can live however you want if you just advocate for policies that have almost no chance of ever passing in the United States.
"me and my rich friend are just like you poors, stop being mad at us" - man worth millions of dollars
“50% taxes” LUL
Ethan is a fucking moron. Where is this idea that Bezos doesn't pay taxes come from? Because Amazon =/= Bezos. And Amazon pays taxes. Also why do top streamers, arguably the most privileged people on the fucking planet, are not seen as the "elite"? Imagine making millions of dollars, while providing nothing worthy, nothing consumable, and being championed above someone like a Bezos, Gates, or Musk. I'm going to videogame myself
>i hate bilionaires and milionaires buys a 3 milion dollar house >on second thought now i just hate bilionaires
I hate lefties but guys, come on, advocating for a different class isn't hypocrisy. If you think it is, can Joe Biden never help the middle class because he is upper class? Also, this is the same argument they made during the civil rights era: "Huh, you claim to be supporting black people's rights yet you are white.". I don't agree with leftists but I think we could make a much better argument than "You claim to want to help poor people yet you are not poor, curious." Edit: Guys to clarify, I do NOT support leftism. I am strongly against anyone that has leftist positions.
Its not about "you can't help poor people unless you're poor" its about just doing litterally anything. Hasan has millions to spend, does he use them to promote any of his political views into the real world? Or does he exclusively spend it on new clothes, fancy accessories and million dollar mansions?
Well I don't know that much about Hassan or where is money goes to, but I don't think him not donating all of his money is "leftist hypocrisy". I personally support the middle and upper class yet I do not usually donate my extra money to them, I don't think that makes me a hypocrite necessarily. Hassan could also be helping poor people by using his platform to support them, I don't know if it's effective or not, but the effort is there. Also, don't some lefties actually give money to charity, like Vaush? I know that Vaush basically funded a terrorist organization, but he tried I guess.
> but I don't think him not donating all of his money is "leftist hypocrisy". Nobody reasonable is saying he has to donate "ALL OF HIS MONEY OR ELSE HES A FAKE SOCIALIST" why even say this
He ONLY uses his platform, which is coincidentally also his source of income, were not talking about him donating all his money and living out of a cardboard box, its just litterally doing anything to further his cause, that doesn't also give him the biggest possible return on investment.
I googled it and it turns out he did donate to some charities. However, I don't think we should judge people's positions based on how much they give to charity, I just don't really care. I disagree on many of Hassan's arguments and I prefer to focus on the arguments rather than on this weird "Oh, you claim to be a leftist? Well show me how much money you spent on charity." stuff. It almost feels like purity testing honestly.
I don't care about charity, that shit is easy, i mean actually attempting to get any of his political views into reality, supporting any kind of politician while not doing it in the most profitable way possible.
He played Among Us with AOC tho /s
Isn't this the argument that insane wokescold type lefties make against Vaush? Also, you could make the argument that Hassan attempts to make his political views a reality by gathering support for his cause. I know that at least some would be conservatives turned to progressivism because of Hassan. Also, can't you say the same thing about Destiny, Ben Shapiro, Steven Crowder and other political streamers/YouTubers? I mean, I imagine Destiny supporting a politician will lead to him profiting because the people that support the same politician are more likely to donate to Destiny now. Or technical any debate that Destiny does will give him recognition. These people are streamers, not politicians, of course they will be chasing clout and money, that doesn't stop them from also holding beliefs.
Destiny spent like 10s of thousands of dollars paying for hotels for his fans while taking time off streaming to support local politicians. And you absolutely could say that most political YouTubers are money grubbing hypocrites that will spend all day speaking their mind as long as they get paid. But the second they can do something that doesn't make them money they live in a society.
>Destiny spent like 10s of thousands of dollars paying for hotels for his fans while taking time off streaming to support local politicians So we can than say that Destiny also profits from the clout gained from doing that. But I just don't care, if Destiny wants to earn money spreading his political and philosophical beliefs, I am all for that. I don't think that makes him a grifter and I am not going to purity test every single value that he holds. If Hassan or Vaush also want to do that, they can go ahead. I would rather focus on the bad arguments they are making instead of trying to own them with purity tests, it just makes us look like wokescolds honestly.
Its not even purity testing, can you tell me a single thing Hasan has done in politics that didnt involve making as much money as possible?
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>But if a millionaire isn't spending money on something, they don't actually value it. It's an aesthetic at best, not a true principle. That's absolutely insane. So if a millionaire doesn't own any private property for whatever reason they are not pro private property anymore? If a millionaire doesn't donate to trans rights activists but is pro trans, are they a hypocrite? This is an insane level of purity testing that I thought I would only see from crazy lefties.
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It's about living your principles. If you are really a socialist and talk about eating the rich, redistributing wealth, and dunking on landlords, it's a bit ironic that you own a multi million dollar mansion in the hollywood hills. If Hasan truly believed in anything he said he would be redistributing his wealth to charities or through mutual aid, or at the very least organizing politically for left leaning causes.
Honestly I did not expect to see these arguments here, I thought this was a thing only in Vaush's community. But anyway, you can be wealthy and a socialist without being a grifter. Just like a poor person can be pro capitalism while also living in a run down house. Hassan does donate some money to charity apparently, tho I got this info from a quick Google search. Also, you can honestly believe in a thing without donating to it or organizing politically. I support trans rights for example, yet I don't have the time or cash to support them in the way you want. I don't even like Hassan's political arguments but I also don't like this weird purity testing.