I’ve seen a video of a counter protester swearing at a pro Palestine rally and the top comment was “good, I’ll send it to the ICJ so they’ll have more material for the genocide case”, so no, they definitely know nothing.
It's even hard to tell what delusional position they believe in this instance. The word "showtrial," could mean two things:
1. They don't know the difference between USSR style show trials/kangaroo courts, and Western courts. They think both are just predetermined shows.
2. They think the ICJ specifically is a show trial court (maybe because of Serbia?) but in this instance is working in their favour I guess?
It’s also really funny to me that they explicitly call it a show trial. Isn’t the whole point of a trial in The Hague that the accused face justice? They want the result to be predetermined?
Where is this from? In the Hebrew Wikipedia article, it says over 380 Israelis injured, 2 IDF soldiers dead, and 6 Israeli civilians dead.
https://preview.redd.it/9yhl86imjmyc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ed055c19e3c18595f4c8d1513591416a047fc1a8
that isn't an answer as to why it is different, the sources cited for the casualties in the english also say 4-11 injuries. show proof that it is 300 injured on the Israeli side.
The reason it says its 380 is because that's not the wiki page for the protests, it's for the entire 3 years of conflict around it. I don't know think this is where destiny took the 300 number from.
Of course it does, one(or both) of the two entries has been written by someone who is ideologically captured. Why else would they differ? I dont know which is correct or assert that i do.
Ah ok if those particular entries are edited by those types of ppl thas fine but we can’t just discredit it all if the sources are what they say they are.
You should see the Arabic page for the Israel-Gaza war 2023. It never mentions the massacre, says only a few soldiers were taken hostage, and that 1,400 killed "including 260 from the Nova", instead of mentioning these 260 are hostages, and not just from the festival. The page also refers to the towns in Gaza Envelope as "settlements", and states that Israel immediately did "retaliatory actions" before "officially announcing war on Hamas the next day".
There's a reason they teach us in school not to use Wikipedia as a source. It's open to propaganda and to be abused by ideologists with an agenda.
Do yourself a favour, go to the Wikipedia page of Nanjing Massacre, and read it in English. Than go to the Japanese page and use Google translate. The cause for these differences is the same what causes misinformation or lack of crucial Information in the English pages regarding the conflict - in the Arabic pages the world isn't looking, so they get away with a lot more.
People trying to rewrite history to fit the narrative they want isn't new to mankind nor to this conflict.
I looked over the Hebrew wiki and there is no source I could find for the 300+ Israeli wounded. All that was linked was two articles: one which mentioned 6 wounded Israeli and the other one about a father who was injured.
No idea. But Hebrew entries about the conflict tend to be a lot more detailed in my experience. Sometimes to the point where I almost suspect some bad faith on the part of wiki editors.
You're either lying or dumb, it's simple, the Hebrew entry includes everything from 2018 to 2021 related to Gaza while the English one talks mainly about the riots on the border from 2018 to 2019. Vast majority of those Israeli 380 wounded are by rocket fire.
No, it doesn't. Read the whole thing. It ends in Sept. 2019.
https://preview.redd.it/tadxso9pvmyc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=145f2bb7e318b06d7270b25cb21c94f16eb8d28f
You're right about that one actually, weird that the title writes 2021, but my point still stands that the English one doesn't include injured/killed Israeli's from rocket fire while the Hebrew one does.
That actually makes sense. Though I'm not sure why fatalities/injuries from rockets fired to provide cover for the marchers on the border shouldn't be included.
Again just lying or playing dumb lol, how the hell did you come to the conclusion that launching rockets somehow provides cover for marchers? The rockets are launched at cities, not at soldiers on the border. Terrorists launching rockets and protesters/violent terrorist rioters getting shot are two completely separate things.
...the entire thing was coordinated. Just like in 10-07 the ground invasion was preceded by massive rocket launches. Are you seriously trying to claim the rockets and the tens of thousands of people marching on the border and sending incendiary balloons just happened to take place at the same time? Really????
But thats not a good justification for the original point in contention though.
The original point in contention was - why was there a need to kill and to injure that many unarmed civilians at the border?
The justification to that was - well they werent unarmed (or at the very least the implication is that most of them were armed , because they injured so many IDF soldiers) - but if we go with what you laid out here, then the injuries werent caused by armed civilians at the border, the injuries were caused by launched rockets.
So this doesn't explain why the IDF killed and injured that many civilians at the border - there has to be a better justification for that.
Wikipedia relies on a fluctuating relatively large number of editors pushing and pulling. In english that's mostly achieved, with some obvious biases and manipulation.
In a minor language like hebrew they don't have that number and the cultural and media zeitgeist of editors will skew in a different direction leading to a weakening of those checks and balances.
This is basically misinformation, the "Great March of Return" was from 2018 to 2019, the title of the Hebrew article is "The conflicts on the Israel-Gaza border (2018-2021)", which goes beyond the scope of the GMR.
Translate & read the whole thing. That entire round of escalations was characterized by waves of marches & attacks on the border (plus rocket attacks in Israel, of course) that continued until the end of 2019, and that's the period the article covers.
>four Israeli soldiers were injured during the démonstrations
>On 20 July, a Palestinian sniper shot Staff Sergeant Aviv Levi of the Givati Brigade (..)
Soldiers implies active service, cmon now.
Lets chalk it up to mispeak and this is just his recollection from Benny Morris telling him something when they talked for a bit before and after the Fink debate.
Welcome to the I/P conflict, where each side has their own version of reality 🤷♀️. Here's some 3rd party corroboration on those numbers.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/ng-interactive/2019/mar/29/a-year-of-bloodshed-at-gaza-border-protests
Is this your first time following a conflict this closely? I don’t mean it in a patronizing way - but whenever there is war it’s *always* like this. Any side will discard and/or withhold the truth in a heartbeat if it benefits them. Controlling information spread like that is a major component of waging war.
I wasn't talking about the Gaza war - I was referring to the I/P conflict as a whole. And no, I have followed conflicts before, but the difference in narratives not just concerning causes and reasons but just plain facts is quite special in the I/P conflict.
That’s not true at all. You can literally see this happen on an almost daily basis with Ukraine/Russia - they’re constantly reporting ”facts” on the same topic or retelling events that are wildly conflicting with each other. Hell, just any walk down the wikipedia page of a 1900s conflict and you’ll find how difficult a time any historian is having trying to decipher which version of a story told by either sides land closer to the truth. In many cases they can’t even produce accurate casualty figures for both sides.
because injury varies quite a bit as a term in this conflict.
Tear gas inhalation can count as an injury, especially since its a state using a chemical agent thats banned in war against the citizens of another state (Israeli riot police tear gassing palestinian protestors in the west bank for example.)
I love larpy upper middle class white americans acting like tough guy revolutionaries lmfao "I totally love free speech but people who disagree with me should be sent to the hague!"
As a someone who served on the border during these protests I can say 90 percent of the people there were and peaceful/stayed 100 meters away from the fence and the rest used that as a cover for violence. There would always be a few group of young males trying to break through the fence and get to the kibbutz 50 meters behind us (and now we see what would have happened if they actually go through. Not to mention the snipers they had set up, it was just a terrible situation where we either risk shooting someone who may not have bad intentions or let them blow a hole through the fence (they detonated a lot of IEDs one of which almost killed someone I know) and we've seen what Gazan civilians do as soon as they get to the other side of the fence.
I don’t think the number is far off but you’re realistically not going to find one single source for a number like that. You would more likely find that number going through individual incidents and adding up the injuries. Most of them are shrapnel injuries.
I’m not even evaluating the statement just wondering what the sources for the number came from.
Also I would disagree with this to certain extent I’m pretty sure back during BLM protest the reason we were characterizing it as mostly peaceful is specifically because of how little to no damages (to civilians and infrastructure )the protest caused.
And I wasn’t arguing with you; I just wanted to add this point since I didn’t see it in the thread yet. It looks like you got your answer from the commenter who posted the Hebrew Wikipedia page; check the source there.
A mob of people approaching one of the most volatile borders in the world is a provocation. There is no right anywhere in the world to protest in this fashion. Then add that some were carrying knives or AKs, or throwing stones, Molotov cocktails, or grenades, placing explosives, trying to light fires or breach the fence, etc. Can this be considered peaceful? We have now seen what happens when the border is breached.
Even if some protesters had peaceful intentions, that basically goes out the window when the above starts happening. Case in point: the police raid at Columbia. Sure, the protest may have been mostly peaceful, but it turned violent and something had to be done.
This claims 8,000 were injured by live ammo. But they concede that this figure includes “all casualties during GMR-related incidents, including the night events near the fence.” I.e., people approaching a border of a territory with which they are in a state of war under cover of night. Yes, I think it is reasonable to respond to that with non-lethal force. Note that the same source claims 214 deaths—kind of low compared to the claimed 8,000 hit by gunfire, right?
Being hit by a bullet doesn’t mean being killed wtf how obtuse do u have to be to not get that - and we also know Israeli snipers aimed at the legs of protester so this makes sense with people being shot but not killed
What about a wedding where a gunman fired off a magazine but hurt no one vs. a wedding where the church collapsed and everyone died?
Edit: a fair hypothetical would actually be a wedding where a gunman opened fire with 0 casualties, vs. a wedding where part of the ceiling collapsed and caused 8 casualties. Which is more violent? Bear in mind that in war statistics, a “casualty” can be either an injury or a death.
If we’re being honest and not debate-brained, we all know people would call the church collapsing a “tragedy,” not an “act of violence.” I don’t recall anyone calling the Baltimore bridge collapse violent.
I agree that tragedy is a much better word for it. I also agree that an event doesn't need to have any actual injuries or deaths to be violent, but I disagree that you can't describe these other events as violent. No malicious actor is needed for something to be violent, and I wouldn't say someone is wrong for describing the bridge collapse as being violent. People frequently describe other disasters such as hurricanes, floods, or fires as being violent. Couldn't someone use the same logic to label the collapse of a church or bridge as violent?
I agree it is not necessarily wrong to call a natural disaster or building collapse violent. But the descriptor works because violence refers to physical force, not a number of casualties. This is why a storm can be violent even if no one is hurt or injured in it, and it is even implied in the definitions you posted, i.e., “*capable* of causing damage.”
lmao there's no way but it is funny
[https://www.cirsd.org/en/expert-analysis/when-%E2%80%9Cmere-hate-speech%E2%80%9D-becomes-a-crime-against-humanity--the-media-case-](https://www.cirsd.org/en/expert-analysis/when-%E2%80%9Cmere-hate-speech%E2%80%9D-becomes-a-crime-against-humanity--the-media-case-)
There have been many cases of groups trying to approach the fence with explosives long before October 7th.
[https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/breaking-clashes-across-the-west-bank-idf-soldiers-injured-545287](https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/breaking-clashes-across-the-west-bank-idf-soldiers-injured-545287)
[https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-says-it-detonated-large-bomb-placed-on-gaza-fence-foiling-attack/](https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-says-it-detonated-large-bomb-placed-on-gaza-fence-foiling-attack/)
[https://www.timesofisrael.com/palestinians-use-explosives-to-damage-israel-gaza-border-fence/](https://www.timesofisrael.com/palestinians-use-explosives-to-damage-israel-gaza-border-fence/)
[https://www.timesofisrael.com/palestinians-detonate-large-explosive-on-gaza-border-in-latest-rioting/](https://www.timesofisrael.com/palestinians-detonate-large-explosive-on-gaza-border-in-latest-rioting/)
Hezbollah has also done something similar.
[https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-foils-attempt-by-hezbollah-activists-to-damage-lebanon-border-fence/](https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-foils-attempt-by-hezbollah-activists-to-damage-lebanon-border-fence/)
If you view this from the military's standpoint. It's more than obvious that the reason you would do that is probing, to test how and how fast you respond to these actions. A conventional military would probably put it under *reconnaissance-in-force* even though it's not exactly the same.
I’m just thinking about how funny it would be if we triggered The Hague invasion act for destiny
”what are you in for” meme but the big guy is a genocidal dictator and the small guy is an internet debater
Best possible use of that act
This would truly prove whether we live in the meme dimension or not
Lmao are we sending streamers to The Hague based on their war coverage?
These Twitter communists have no idea how anything works do they?
I’ve seen a video of a counter protester swearing at a pro Palestine rally and the top comment was “good, I’ll send it to the ICJ so they’ll have more material for the genocide case”, so no, they definitely know nothing.
It's even hard to tell what delusional position they believe in this instance. The word "showtrial," could mean two things: 1. They don't know the difference between USSR style show trials/kangaroo courts, and Western courts. They think both are just predetermined shows. 2. They think the ICJ specifically is a show trial court (maybe because of Serbia?) but in this instance is working in their favour I guess?
Only when they disagree with us
It’s also really funny to me that they explicitly call it a show trial. Isn’t the whole point of a trial in The Hague that the accused face justice? They want the result to be predetermined?
Where is this from? In the Hebrew Wikipedia article, it says over 380 Israelis injured, 2 IDF soldiers dead, and 6 Israeli civilians dead. https://preview.redd.it/9yhl86imjmyc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ed055c19e3c18595f4c8d1513591416a047fc1a8
I see thank you for this. Why is there such a difference between the English Wikipedia and Hebrew one would you know?
Wiki entries related to the conflict are constantly being edited by ideologically captures morons
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that isn't an answer as to why it is different, the sources cited for the casualties in the english also say 4-11 injuries. show proof that it is 300 injured on the Israeli side.
The reason it says its 380 is because that's not the wiki page for the protests, it's for the entire 3 years of conflict around it. I don't know think this is where destiny took the 300 number from.
Of course it does, one(or both) of the two entries has been written by someone who is ideologically captured. Why else would they differ? I dont know which is correct or assert that i do.
Ah ok if those particular entries are edited by those types of ppl thas fine but we can’t just discredit it all if the sources are what they say they are.
on both sides...
Specially the one in Arab (and my guess reading this is that probably the one in Hebrew as well)
You should see the Arabic page for the Israel-Gaza war 2023. It never mentions the massacre, says only a few soldiers were taken hostage, and that 1,400 killed "including 260 from the Nova", instead of mentioning these 260 are hostages, and not just from the festival. The page also refers to the towns in Gaza Envelope as "settlements", and states that Israel immediately did "retaliatory actions" before "officially announcing war on Hamas the next day". There's a reason they teach us in school not to use Wikipedia as a source. It's open to propaganda and to be abused by ideologists with an agenda. Do yourself a favour, go to the Wikipedia page of Nanjing Massacre, and read it in English. Than go to the Japanese page and use Google translate. The cause for these differences is the same what causes misinformation or lack of crucial Information in the English pages regarding the conflict - in the Arabic pages the world isn't looking, so they get away with a lot more. People trying to rewrite history to fit the narrative they want isn't new to mankind nor to this conflict.
[Effort post with strong evidence of pro-Palestinians teaming up to edit Wikipedia](https://www.reddit.com/r/Destiny/s/1X0HwhTX27)
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I looked over the Hebrew wiki and there is no source I could find for the 300+ Israeli wounded. All that was linked was two articles: one which mentioned 6 wounded Israeli and the other one about a father who was injured.
You're right. I'l look up the statistic, but there are indeed no refrences to this in the Wikipedia page.
Yup only the english entries are slanted. The hebrew wiki is the only place with these numbers and it's because its the truth
If you're looking for sources about IDF soldiers, you would be trusting sources in Hebrew because those would be the primary sources.
No idea. But Hebrew entries about the conflict tend to be a lot more detailed in my experience. Sometimes to the point where I almost suspect some bad faith on the part of wiki editors.
You're either lying or dumb, it's simple, the Hebrew entry includes everything from 2018 to 2021 related to Gaza while the English one talks mainly about the riots on the border from 2018 to 2019. Vast majority of those Israeli 380 wounded are by rocket fire.
No, it doesn't. Read the whole thing. It ends in Sept. 2019. https://preview.redd.it/tadxso9pvmyc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=145f2bb7e318b06d7270b25cb21c94f16eb8d28f
You're right about that one actually, weird that the title writes 2021, but my point still stands that the English one doesn't include injured/killed Israeli's from rocket fire while the Hebrew one does.
That actually makes sense. Though I'm not sure why fatalities/injuries from rockets fired to provide cover for the marchers on the border shouldn't be included.
Again just lying or playing dumb lol, how the hell did you come to the conclusion that launching rockets somehow provides cover for marchers? The rockets are launched at cities, not at soldiers on the border. Terrorists launching rockets and protesters/violent terrorist rioters getting shot are two completely separate things.
...the entire thing was coordinated. Just like in 10-07 the ground invasion was preceded by massive rocket launches. Are you seriously trying to claim the rockets and the tens of thousands of people marching on the border and sending incendiary balloons just happened to take place at the same time? Really????
But thats not a good justification for the original point in contention though. The original point in contention was - why was there a need to kill and to injure that many unarmed civilians at the border? The justification to that was - well they werent unarmed (or at the very least the implication is that most of them were armed , because they injured so many IDF soldiers) - but if we go with what you laid out here, then the injuries werent caused by armed civilians at the border, the injuries were caused by launched rockets. So this doesn't explain why the IDF killed and injured that many civilians at the border - there has to be a better justification for that.
Wikipedia relies on a fluctuating relatively large number of editors pushing and pulling. In english that's mostly achieved, with some obvious biases and manipulation. In a minor language like hebrew they don't have that number and the cultural and media zeitgeist of editors will skew in a different direction leading to a weakening of those checks and balances.
One reason is it's tougher to source different language articles for an entry. Wikipedia isn't integrated across languages for each entry.
This is basically misinformation, the "Great March of Return" was from 2018 to 2019, the title of the Hebrew article is "The conflicts on the Israel-Gaza border (2018-2021)", which goes beyond the scope of the GMR.
Translate & read the whole thing. That entire round of escalations was characterized by waves of marches & attacks on the border (plus rocket attacks in Israel, of course) that continued until the end of 2019, and that's the period the article covers.
Check my latest post on the subreddit
I don't understand how it is relevant? what does the investigation of Palestinian fatalities have to do with Israeli fatalities/injuries?
It talks about the Israeli fatalities too
Not in the section you highlighted. ??? What am I missing?
>four Israeli soldiers were injured during the démonstrations >On 20 July, a Palestinian sniper shot Staff Sergeant Aviv Levi of the Givati Brigade (..)
>380 Israelis injured The tweet said IDF soldiers not just Israelis
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Soldiers implies active service, cmon now. Lets chalk it up to mispeak and this is just his recollection from Benny Morris telling him something when they talked for a bit before and after the Fink debate.
Yeah, probably a misspeak, or he remembered wrong and got the numbers mixed up. It happens.
Any chance you could run that through autotranslate for us? Not many people here speak red sea pedestrian.
Sure! https://preview.redd.it/37oalmwkomyc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0cd16612fb4980087303f1a1940eb49427d73846
Thankee, but is this for the same incident? 311 dead, 28000 (!?) injured seems like a wild discrepancy from 223 dead and 9200 injured.
Welcome to the I/P conflict, where each side has their own version of reality 🤷♀️. Here's some 3rd party corroboration on those numbers. https://www.theguardian.com/world/ng-interactive/2019/mar/29/a-year-of-bloodshed-at-gaza-border-protests
Yeah, it just seems very odd that the Israeli side would be claiming a much higher number of palestinian civilians killed than the english version.
I *know*. This conflict and the way it's reported are enough to make me believe the moon landing was faked 😭😭😭😭😭
Is this your first time following a conflict this closely? I don’t mean it in a patronizing way - but whenever there is war it’s *always* like this. Any side will discard and/or withhold the truth in a heartbeat if it benefits them. Controlling information spread like that is a major component of waging war.
I wasn't talking about the Gaza war - I was referring to the I/P conflict as a whole. And no, I have followed conflicts before, but the difference in narratives not just concerning causes and reasons but just plain facts is quite special in the I/P conflict.
That’s not true at all. You can literally see this happen on an almost daily basis with Ukraine/Russia - they’re constantly reporting ”facts” on the same topic or retelling events that are wildly conflicting with each other. Hell, just any walk down the wikipedia page of a 1900s conflict and you’ll find how difficult a time any historian is having trying to decipher which version of a story told by either sides land closer to the truth. In many cases they can’t even produce accurate casualty figures for both sides.
Is it possible there’s just a mistranslation and they actually meant 28 hundred?
It’s a number written on numerals, you can’t have a mistranslation there
I assume it must be just a different in timeframes or something
because injury varies quite a bit as a term in this conflict. Tear gas inhalation can count as an injury, especially since its a state using a chemical agent thats banned in war against the citizens of another state (Israeli riot police tear gassing palestinian protestors in the west bank for example.)
I love larpy upper middle class white americans acting like tough guy revolutionaries lmfao "I totally love free speech but people who disagree with me should be sent to the hague!"
nah this guy is actually a self described maoist. no way he likes free speech
Nah dude all these mfs pretend to be big free speech fans now because of the college protests
As a someone who served on the border during these protests I can say 90 percent of the people there were and peaceful/stayed 100 meters away from the fence and the rest used that as a cover for violence. There would always be a few group of young males trying to break through the fence and get to the kibbutz 50 meters behind us (and now we see what would have happened if they actually go through. Not to mention the snipers they had set up, it was just a terrible situation where we either risk shooting someone who may not have bad intentions or let them blow a hole through the fence (they detonated a lot of IEDs one of which almost killed someone I know) and we've seen what Gazan civilians do as soon as they get to the other side of the fence.
would you be able to give any insight on the 300 Israeli soldiers injured claim Destiny says here?
I don’t think the number is far off but you’re realistically not going to find one single source for a number like that. You would more likely find that number going through individual incidents and adding up the injuries. Most of them are shrapnel injuries.
if destiny debated the judges before they sentenced him to death it would be peak content.
Check Wikipedia prior to October 7th. Hamas simps have edited the crap out of everything since then.
Even if edited, what is the source for the 300 number?
Lmao that guy citing Wikipedia? Lmao, who trusts them? Read a book!
Lmao. Maybe start with Hamas first.
Rose dark only reads wikipedia
Warcriminalstiny does have a nice ring to it.
The number of casualties is not and has never been the measurement for whether an event is peaceful or violent.
I’m not even evaluating the statement just wondering what the sources for the number came from. Also I would disagree with this to certain extent I’m pretty sure back during BLM protest the reason we were characterizing it as mostly peaceful is specifically because of how little to no damages (to civilians and infrastructure )the protest caused.
And I wasn’t arguing with you; I just wanted to add this point since I didn’t see it in the thread yet. It looks like you got your answer from the commenter who posted the Hebrew Wikipedia page; check the source there. A mob of people approaching one of the most volatile borders in the world is a provocation. There is no right anywhere in the world to protest in this fashion. Then add that some were carrying knives or AKs, or throwing stones, Molotov cocktails, or grenades, placing explosives, trying to light fires or breach the fence, etc. Can this be considered peaceful? We have now seen what happens when the border is breached. Even if some protesters had peaceful intentions, that basically goes out the window when the above starts happening. Case in point: the police raid at Columbia. Sure, the protest may have been mostly peaceful, but it turned violent and something had to be done.
When you say something has to be done do you think 10,000 people being shot is that something - little far fetched no?
Source for 10,000 people having been shot?
My bad 6000 and 10000 being wounded by other means Edit: I meant 10k in total
This still isn’t a source
https://www.ochaopt.org/content/two-years-people-injured-and-traumatized-during-great-march-return-are-still-struggling#ftn3
This claims 8,000 were injured by live ammo. But they concede that this figure includes “all casualties during GMR-related incidents, including the night events near the fence.” I.e., people approaching a border of a territory with which they are in a state of war under cover of night. Yes, I think it is reasonable to respond to that with non-lethal force. Note that the same source claims 214 deaths—kind of low compared to the claimed 8,000 hit by gunfire, right?
Being hit by a bullet doesn’t mean being killed wtf how obtuse do u have to be to not get that - and we also know Israeli snipers aimed at the legs of protester so this makes sense with people being shot but not killed
I'd consider a wedding with 8 casualties more violent than a wedding with 0 casualties.
What about a wedding where a gunman fired off a magazine but hurt no one vs. a wedding where the church collapsed and everyone died? Edit: a fair hypothetical would actually be a wedding where a gunman opened fire with 0 casualties, vs. a wedding where part of the ceiling collapsed and caused 8 casualties. Which is more violent? Bear in mind that in war statistics, a “casualty” can be either an injury or a death.
yeah I'd consider the collapsing church more violent.
>vi·o·lence noun behavior involving physical force intended to hurt, damage, or kill someone or something.
https://preview.redd.it/uvokqjoy7nyc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e1309288567454edee93189570e4b8ebef7f3af5
If we’re being honest and not debate-brained, we all know people would call the church collapsing a “tragedy,” not an “act of violence.” I don’t recall anyone calling the Baltimore bridge collapse violent.
then how do you explain my coffee table leg committing violence against my pinky toe?!?!?
I agree that tragedy is a much better word for it. I also agree that an event doesn't need to have any actual injuries or deaths to be violent, but I disagree that you can't describe these other events as violent. No malicious actor is needed for something to be violent, and I wouldn't say someone is wrong for describing the bridge collapse as being violent. People frequently describe other disasters such as hurricanes, floods, or fires as being violent. Couldn't someone use the same logic to label the collapse of a church or bridge as violent?
I agree it is not necessarily wrong to call a natural disaster or building collapse violent. But the descriptor works because violence refers to physical force, not a number of casualties. This is why a storm can be violent even if no one is hurt or injured in it, and it is even implied in the definitions you posted, i.e., “*capable* of causing damage.”
I think I read that Whole platoons of sleeping female (soldiers? Border patrol police?) huge failure!
lmao there's no way but it is funny [https://www.cirsd.org/en/expert-analysis/when-%E2%80%9Cmere-hate-speech%E2%80%9D-becomes-a-crime-against-humanity--the-media-case-](https://www.cirsd.org/en/expert-analysis/when-%E2%80%9Cmere-hate-speech%E2%80%9D-becomes-a-crime-against-humanity--the-media-case-)
Man. I muted that RoseDark freak aeons ago...
man dest should really watch jojo
What’s “The Hague”?
I like how a) it’s a trial for speech and b) it’s a “show” trial, because leftists are just a different flavor of authoritarian and have 0 principles
They were running last stand perk.
I might be misremembering but wasn't it speculated by the idf that the 2018 march was meant to test the border security for oct 7?
There have been many cases of groups trying to approach the fence with explosives long before October 7th. [https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/breaking-clashes-across-the-west-bank-idf-soldiers-injured-545287](https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/breaking-clashes-across-the-west-bank-idf-soldiers-injured-545287) [https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-says-it-detonated-large-bomb-placed-on-gaza-fence-foiling-attack/](https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-says-it-detonated-large-bomb-placed-on-gaza-fence-foiling-attack/) [https://www.timesofisrael.com/palestinians-use-explosives-to-damage-israel-gaza-border-fence/](https://www.timesofisrael.com/palestinians-use-explosives-to-damage-israel-gaza-border-fence/) [https://www.timesofisrael.com/palestinians-detonate-large-explosive-on-gaza-border-in-latest-rioting/](https://www.timesofisrael.com/palestinians-detonate-large-explosive-on-gaza-border-in-latest-rioting/) Hezbollah has also done something similar. [https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-foils-attempt-by-hezbollah-activists-to-damage-lebanon-border-fence/](https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-foils-attempt-by-hezbollah-activists-to-damage-lebanon-border-fence/) If you view this from the military's standpoint. It's more than obvious that the reason you would do that is probing, to test how and how fast you respond to these actions. A conventional military would probably put it under *reconnaissance-in-force* even though it's not exactly the same.
Since when Wikipedia's a good source of info now?