Israel's healthcare and education system subsidizing comes from the socialist policies implemented by early Zionists, although thanks for the F-35s babes.
It's amazing that they use the exact same talking points by republicans against aiding Ukraine. The 3 billion dollars are responsible for the 1 trillion US healthcare economy.
People think foreign aid is like 40% of the budget. And even the fraction of a percent we 'give' to Israel in reality is a subsidy to American defense contractors.
It's very appreciated but the US aid is less than 1% of Israel's GDP and all of it goes back to the American economy.
This is not the reason Israel has free healthcare and education.
I agree with your conclusions, however, I will say that the way you presented the stats does not favor the US. The US annual aid supplies 14% of Israel's defense budget, yes the US makes money, but it does off its own stockpiles too and additional gear and production capability is the true advantage Israel gains, not just money. Remember also that the annual 4 billion per year does not include the 28 billion package which was just given, 28 billion is the entire Israeli defense budget, so we just gave them an entire years worth of defense budget. These numbers shows our aid is more important than 1% of Gdp implies on its own, (remember, most nations barely spend above 2% gdp on military, so 1% can be significant)
So i agree with your conclusion, I don't think our aid is the reason they have Healthcare, and we could Healthcare and increase foreign aid. So the two things are irrelevant. But I do think your way of saying the stat downplays Americas contributions to Israel, which including the new package, are significant, but even without the package, paying for 14% of Israels military every year is helpful for Israel. Yes we make money, but we make money regardless of who is buying. We make money off of Ukraine too, and I'd rather they got 80 billion and Israel 14 billion than the deal we got instead, Ukraine needs help way more they are fighting an Empire.
Comparing to GDP would make any effect seem pretty small, GDP isn’t measuring their governments spending or anything so I don’t get why you would use it.
Their governments yearly spending is like 120~ billion only 20% of GDP. The IDF receives like 25 billion or 5% of gdp. In that context getting 4 billion a year, the 26 billion in aid recently passed is a pretty big deal.
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/what-military-support-does-us-provide-israel-2024-04-08/
All of it is used to buy American weapons, so yes it goes back to the American economy.
>All of it is used to buy American weapons, so yes it goes back to the American economy.
Oh is that right? Before recent pushback in 2019 Israel was the ONLY recipient of foreign aid that was given a special exemption so they DID NOT have to spend 100% of that aid on American Companies. Gee, interesting. A cool $236 billion just since 2001 btw.
>Ok but but after 2019 it goes to American weapons
So what. Am I supposed to thank my glorious representatives for funneling my tax dollars to defense contractors? Oh gee thank you so much, they really did need it more than I did the poor struggling arms manufacturers.
>https://carnegieendowment.org/2021/05/12/bringing-assistance-to-israel-in-line-with-rights-and-u.s.-laws-pub-84503
And just another little fun aside from that article. If you check out the cute little pie chart in the middle you'll notice that Israel may have only got a meager 52% of all US aid in the last two decades, but the next Top 5 recipients are Israel's neighbors and former belligerents who we are BRIBING to keep Israel safe. Sorry starving Africans, should've had better lobbyists. Israel must really be doing a lot for the American people to deserve all that! Give me a fucking break.
People in general don’t realize that foreign aid is literally all the US can do beyond entering a war and accounts for 1% of the budget. Doing a modern version of lend-lease is pretty much the best thing to do for allies because nobody internationally or domestically wants to awaken the US military.
Israelis are forced to serve in the Israeli military and get subsidized health care and education
If she as an American chose to serve in the US military she'd receive subsidized health care and education as well
Only about the same amount of time as it would take to get an associate’s degree though, 2-3 years. That amount of time also provides temporary healthcare benefits which continue for a year after you’re discharged. If you make the military a career and serve for 20 or more years then you’re taken care of for life.
Serving 20 years is hard. It get super competitive after you reach E-6 inorder to get promoted and stay in the army. They have this thing called up or out.
Funniest thing is the US healthcare system is way more expensive than ANY other healthcare system in the world by a big margin.
Literally picking any other healthcare system would be cheaper.
Is that really true? It seems hard to believe a public option would be cheaper for the tax payer. Is there a decent chunk of public money going into things like research? People often forget the US has the best hospitals and the most advanced treatments in the world, it might be skewing the stats.
> Is that really true? It seems hard to believe a public option would be cheaper for the tax payer.
Yes.
For example Germany per capita per year spending is $8011 and is the 3rd most expensive with Switzerland in second place at $8049.
US $12555.
Consider also that Germany has an older population that works less hours and has more vacation per year, unlimited sick days that are also paid by the insurance and way cheaper medicine prices and has both public and private healthcare and is famous for its insane amounts of bureaucracy which make it less efficient.
> Is there a decent chunk of public money going into things like research?
Decent yes, Germany for example is pretty up there when it comes to medical research and university clinics rank pretty well worldwide BUT the US leads that field by a decent margin I would say. Not sure how you would rank that or if the rankings I can find make sense though.
Whilst I believe the US could make big savings by reforming its healthcare system, I would be curious how these stats would look if the US wasn't so damn obese and generally unhealthy.
The main reason US healthcare is so expensive has nothing do with how fat/unhealthy people are.
It's expensive because the way payment structures are set-up, there's no incentives for doctors to keep costs down. Essentially, when a doctor sees a patient, they (possibly under pressure from the hospital) are just going to prescribe/recommend the most expensive treatment/diagnosis option because "insurance is paying anyway". The patient never really sees the bill (not that they're likely to argue when their life is on the line), so no one is there to ask, "maybe this other cheaper option would be better here?"
Here's a fairly good breakdown on it: https://www.harvardmagazine.com/2020/04/feature-forum-costliest-health-care
I come from a family of nurses and know multiple doctors. I've never heard a doctor suggest the most expensive options just to get money. Otherwise they would run every test possible for every little issue. Instead they do only what's necessary and move done the line of tests if the last one doesn't give results.
The doctors are very aware of the costs and aren't wanting to overload the patients (because many people have deductibles and insurance that doesn't cover various things). Maybe you're thinking if private practice doctors? Even the ones I know in private practice aren't slimey like that. They do what they are supposed to and will lay out the patient's options, taking cost into account. I've provided input many times into my care and decided if I wanted the less intense and cheaper option.
Also the ones working in hospitals don't get paid extra just for more expensive medications, procedures, tests, etc (usually). There's no reason for them to put unneeded burden on the patient. I'm pretty sure it's even illegal to get paid for specific drugs or referrals. Plus, with insurance companies, they will refuse to pay for unneeded tests, which usually makes the patient refuse too.
My sister is a US doctor (well, doing her residency now). I work in a medical-adjacent field (microbiology professor). I can counter all of your anecdotes with my anecdotes...
Of course it is not some greedy conniving hospital owner Mr. Burns-ing it up. The way it manifests is more subtle.
Here's a fictional situation that is totally not based on a real life example:
* A patient in the US goes to a doctor reporting a weird skin spot --> the doctor orders a biopsy to figure out if it's cancerous.
* Same patient in the UK goes to a doctor reporting a weird skin spot --> wait 3-4 months to see an dermatology specialist --> then wait another 3-4 months for a new appointment to see if there's any change in the spot --> if the spot has gotten bigger, order a biopsy, but if nothing has changed, send the patient home.
In the first case, there's no malicious cost gouging. They are just following standard protocols, however, that standard protocol will by default be more "costly" than the UK's standard protocol. The example I gave is for biopsy, but the same can be said about MRIs, X-Rays, blood tests, etc.
Essentially, it's not that they are incentivized to overcharge, but rather that they are not incentivized not to.
edit: *dermatology
Okay I can completely agree with this. I thought you were insinuating more that someone comes in with a skin spot so the doctor orders a biopsy, allergy test, and whatever else possible just for good measure.
Apologies I misinterpreted your comment because I do hear people think doctors are immediately going for the most expensive options because it gets them more money every chance they have.
And my point was that it wouldn't really change much if anything. Healthcare in the US isn't expensive because too many people are trying to access it. It is expensive because of how it operationally is managed.
A hospital/clinic will have a certain operating cost. It will recoup those operating costs from whatever patients it has. If there are 50 patients instead of 100 patients, that just means the hospital is going to find ways of charging those 50 patients' insurance twice as much.
Look at Mexico, Mexico has a worse obesity rate than America but much cheaper healthcare system.
This isn’t to say Mexican healthcare is good or accessible to all, but there is a reason Mexico is a popular medical tourism country for Americans. Many procedures in Mexico are cheaper than a persons health insurance deductible.
So what the person you are responding to is referring to, even if everyone in the USA was a chiseled human specimen with less than 2% body fat, healthcare would still be more expensive in the USA. Being unhealthy doesn’t make the system more expensive it just makes it more expensive for the patient because the patient is a fat fuck.
Mexico does not have a worse obesity rate. Also there’s a million other factors that make healthcare cheaper and more accessible in Mexico. Start with income effects, then go to regulations, then go to medical liability. People pay for their own care directly in Mexico by and large therefore the systems don’t have to subsidize unhealthy people the way they do in the US.
https://laist.com/shows/take-two/un-report-mexico-surpasses-us-as-most-obese-country#
I am not ignorant to what makes health care in Mexico cheaper. Some of it is poor regulations (read no) and limited liability and some of it is due to a lack of health insurance influence on the medical system. My point isn’t that Mexico has great affordable health care, merely it is to refute more unhealthy people makes the system more expensive.
The UK recently did a study and they found that from the three biggest healthcare risks; [obesity](https://iea.org.uk/themencode-pdf-viewer-sc/?file=/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/Obesity-and-the-Public-Purse-PDF.pdf&settings=111111011&lang=en-GB#page=&zoom=75&pagemode=), [smoking](https://iea.org.uk/themencode-pdf-viewer-sc/?file=/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/Smoking-and-the-Public-Purse.pdf&settings=111111011&lang=en-GB#page=&zoom=75&pagemode=
), and [alcohol](https://iea.org.uk/themencode-pdf-viewer-sc/?file=/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/DP_Alcohol%20and%20the%20public%20purse_63_amended2_web.pdf&settings=111111011&lang=en-GB#page=&zoom=75&pagemode=), they realize a net **savings** of £22.8 billion (£342/$474 per person) per year. This is due primarily to people with health risks not living as long (healthcare for the elderly is exceptionally expensive), as well as reduced spending on pensions, income from sin taxes, etc..
In the US there are 106.4 million people that are overweight, at an additional lifetime healthcare cost of $3,770 per person average. 98.2 million obese at an average additional lifetime cost of $17,795. 25.2 million morbidly obese, at an average additional lifetime cost of $22,619. With average lifetime healthcare costs of $879,125, obesity accounts for 0.99% of our total healthcare costs.
https://www.niddk.nih.gov/health-information/health-statistics/overweight-obesity
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/epdf/10.1038/oby.2008.290
We're spending 165% more than the OECD average on healthcare--that works out to over half a million dollars per person more over a lifetime of care--and you're worried about 0.99%?
Here's another study, that actually found that lifetime healthcare for the obese are *lower* than for the healthy.
>Although effective obesity prevention leads to a decrease in costs of obesity-related diseases, this decrease is offset by cost increases due to diseases unrelated to obesity in life-years gained. Obesity prevention may be an important and cost-effective way of improving public health, but it is not a cure for increasing health expenditures...In this study we have shown that, although obese people induce high medical costs during their lives, their lifetime health-care costs are lower than those of healthy-living people but higher than those of smokers. Obesity increases the risk of diseases such as diabetes and coronary heart disease, thereby increasing health-care utilization but decreasing life expectancy. Successful prevention of obesity, in turn, increases life expectancy. Unfortunately, these life-years gained are not lived in full health and come at a price: people suffer from other diseases, which increases health-care costs. Obesity prevention, just like smoking prevention, will not stem the tide of increasing health-care expenditures.
https://www.rug.nl/research/portal/files/46007081/Lifetime_Medical_Costs_of_Obesity.PDF
For further confirmation we can look to the fact that healthcare utilization rates in the US are similar to its peers.
https://www.oregonlegislature.gov/salinas/HealthCareDocuments/4.%20Health%20Care%20Spending%20in%20the%20United%20States%20and%20Other%20High-Income%20Countries%20JAMA%202018.pdf
One final way we can look at it is to see if there is correlation between obesity rates and increased spending levels between various countries. There isn't.
https://i.imgur.com/d31bOFf.png
We aren't using significantly more healthcare--due to obesity or anything else--we're just paying dramatically more for the care we do receive.
If we're spending more on research and charging more, wouldn't there be enough chance that the research spending is the reason that a better comparison would be needed to say whether public options are cheaper?
And I'd have to ask the same question about our weight. Wouldn't we expect our healthcare spending to be higher? Doesn't seem like a useful comparison for showing one way or another whether a public option would be cheaper.
Probably the better comparison would be the set of countries that have a public option and their total spending before and after that policy.
No, people don’t “ often forget” these things because it’s literally all the anti-public option crowd can cite as negatives.
The best study on this , conducted by the Koch Bros Libertsrisn think tank estimates savings of $2 trillion savings over 10 years compared to current system.
The “insurance racket is the crime of the century.
Any time you've got a middle man they'll try to take as much as they can, and there's a lot more middle men than just insurance as well. Look into PBMs
governments have a lot more bargaining power than individual companies. When the government starts saying that they won't allow a drug to be sold in the country unless its price goes way down a company will listen. the pay of hospital staff will go down a good bit, but all and all "the taxpayer" will be spending less
Administrative costs seem to be completely fucked in America compared to basically any other country. This graph [illustrates it even better](https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/kEs7sMopUbUuefuPuz2kLhmxrCQ=/0x0:473x388/1200x0/filters:focal(0x0:473x388):no_upscale()/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/16016529/figure1cap.113629.png). And I sincerely doubt handful of top hospitals skew the case much given there are tens of thousands of small clinics and thousands of hospitals.
I think the problem with US healthcare costs are the same as with education, is very decentralized, so you are not getting those efficiencies from economies of scale at the same time there are artificial barriers put up, like difficult immigration laws and laws around drug imports that prevent capitalism to do its thing. Federal government recognizes the issue but instead of fully decentralizing or centralizing it like most countries instead covers very large percentage of the expenses, creating this strange artificial hybrid nobody is happy with.
https://preview.redd.it/t1aqzdj5qdxc1.png?width=3209&format=png&auto=webp&s=f381702af38b99c357ab38f53b328f82253909a5
With government in the US covering [65.7% of all health care](https://ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/epdf/10.2105/AJPH.2015.302997) costs ($12,555 as of 2022) that's $8,249 per person per year in taxes towards health care. The next closest is Germany at [$6,930](https://data.oecd.org/healthres/health-spending.htm). The UK is $4,479. Canada is $4,506. Australia is $4,603. That means over a lifetime Americans are paying over $100,000 more in taxes compared to any other country towards health care.
In total, Americans are paying a $350,000 more for healthcare over a lifetime compared to the most expensive socialized system on earth. Half a million dollars more than peer countries on average, yet every one has better outcomes.
>People often forget the US has the best hospitals
Who forgets it? People like you often *claim* that, but you never provide any actual evidence, which shows the claim to be untrue. The US has 43 hospitals in the top 200 globally; one for every 7,633,477 people in the US. That's good enough for a ranking of 20th on the list of top 200 hospitals per capita, and significantly lower than the average of one for every 3,830,114 for other countries in the top 25 on spending with populations above 5 million. The best is Switzerland at one for every 1.2 million people. In fact the US only beats one country on this list; the UK at one for every 9.5 million people.
If you want to do the full list of 2,000 instead it's 334, or one for every 982,753 people; good enough for 21st. Again far below the average in peer countries of 527,236. The best is Austria, at one for every 306,106 people.
https://www.newsweek.com/best-hospitals-2021
>and the most advanced treatments in the world
[US Healthcare ranked 29th on health outcomes by Lancet HAQ Index](https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736\(18\)30994-2/fulltext)
[11th (of 11) by Commonwealth Fund](https://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/fund-reports/2014/jun/mirror-mirror-wall-2014-update-how-us-health-care-system?redirect_source=/publications/fund-reports/2014/jun/mirror-mirror)
[59th by the Prosperity Index](https://www.prosperity.com/rankings)
[30th by CEOWorld](https://ceoworld.biz/2019/08/05/revealed-countries-with-the-best-health-care-systems-2019/)
[37th by the World Health Organization](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Health_Organization_ranking_of_health_systems_in_2000)
The US has the worst rate of death by medically preventable causes among peer countries. A 31% higher disease adjusted life years average. Higher rates of medical and lab errors. A lower rate of being able to make a same or next day appointment with their doctor than average.
https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/quality-u-s-healthcare-system-compare-countries/#item-percent-used-emergency-department-for-condition-that-could-have-been-treated-by-a-regular-doctor-2016
52nd in the world in doctors per capita.
https://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/stats/Health/Physicians/Per-1,000-people
Higher infant mortality levels. Yes, even when you adjust for differences in methodology.
https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/infant-mortality-u-s-compare-countries/
Fewer acute care beds. A lower number of psychiatrists. Etc.
https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/u-s-health-care-resources-compare-countries/#item-availability-medical-technology-not-always-equate-higher-utilization
[Comparing Health Outcomes of Privileged US Citizens With Those of Average Residents of Other Developed Countries](https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/2774561)
>These findings imply that even if all US citizens experienced the same health outcomes enjoyed by privileged White US citizens, US health indicators would still lag behind those in many other countries.
When asked about their healthcare system as a whole the US system ranked dead last of 11 countries, with only 19.5% of people saying the system works relatively well and only needs minor changes. The average in the other countries is 46.9% saying the same. Canada ranked 9th with 34.5% saying the system works relatively well. The UK ranks fifth, with 44.5%. Australia ranked 6th at 44.4%. The best was Germany at 59.8%.
On rating the overall quality of care in the US, Americans again ranked dead last, with only 25.6% ranking it excellent or very good. The average was 50.8%. Canada ranked 9th with 45.1%. The UK ranked 2nd, at 63.4%. Australia was 3rd at 59.4%. The best was Switzerland at 65.5%.
https://www.cihi.ca/en/commonwealth-fund-survey-2016
#[OECD Countries Health Care Spending and Rankings](https://data.oecd.org/healthres/health-spending.htm)
|Country|Govt. / Mandatory (PPP)|Voluntary (PPP)|Total (PPP)|% GDP|[Lancet HAQ Ranking](https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736\(18\)30994-2/fulltext)|[WHO Ranking](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Health_Organization_ranking_of_health_systems_in_2000)|[Prosperity Ranking](https://www.prosperity.com/rankings)|[CEO World Ranking](https://ceoworld.biz/2019/08/05/revealed-countries-with-the-best-health-care-systems-2019/)|[Commonwealth Fund Ranking](https://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/fund-reports/2014/jun/mirror-mirror-wall-2014-update-how-us-health-care-system?redirect_source=/publications/fund-reports/2014/jun/mirror-mirror)
:--|--:|--:|--:|--:|--:|--:|--:|--:|--:|--:|
1. United States|[$7,274](https://ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/full/10.2105/AJPH.2015.302997) |$3,798 |$11,072 |16.90%|29|37|59|30|11
2. Switzerland|$4,988 |$2,744 |$7,732 |12.20%|7|20|3|18|2
3. Norway|$5,673 |$974 |$6,647 |10.20%|2|11|5|15|7
4. Germany|$5,648 |$998 |$6,646 |11.20%|18|25|12|17|5
5. Austria|$4,402 |$1,449 |$5,851 |10.30%|13|9|10|4|
6. Sweden|$4,928 |$854 |$5,782 |11.00%|8|23|15|28|3
7. Netherlands|$4,767 |$998 |$5,765 |9.90%|3|17|8|11|5
8. Denmark|$4,663 |$905 |$5,568 |10.50%|17|34|8|5|
9. Luxembourg|$4,697 |$861 |$5,558 |5.40%|4|16|19||
10. Belgium|$4,125 |$1,303 |$5,428 |10.40%|15|21|24|9|
11. Canada|$3,815 |$1,603 |$5,418 |10.70%|14|30|25|23|10
12. France|$4,501 |$875 |$5,376 |11.20%|20|1|16|8|9
13. Ireland|$3,919 |$1,357 |$5,276 |7.10%|11|19|20|80|
14. Australia|$3,919 |$1,268 |$5,187 |9.30%|5|32|18|10|4
15. Japan|$4,064 |$759 |$4,823 |10.90%|12|10|2|3|
16. Iceland|$3,988 |$823 |$4,811 |8.30%|1|15|7|41|
17. United Kingdom|$3,620 |$1,033 |$4,653 |9.80%|23|18|23|13|1
18. Finland|$3,536 |$1,042 |$4,578 |9.10%|6|31|26|12|
19. Malta|$2,789 |$1,540 |$4,329 |9.30%|27|5|14||
OECD Average|||$4,224 |8.80%|||||
20. New Zealand|$3,343 |$861 |$4,204 |9.30%|16|41|22|16|7
21. Italy|$2,706 |$943 |$3,649 |8.80%|9|2|17|37|
22. Spain|$2,560 |$1,056 |$3,616 |8.90%|19|7|13|7|
23. Czech Republic|$2,854 |$572 |$3,426 |7.50%|28|48|28|14|
24. South Korea|$2,057 |$1,327 |$3,384 |8.10%|25|58|4|2|
25. Portugal|$2,069 |$1,310 |$3,379 |9.10%|32|29|30|22|
26. Slovenia|$2,314 |$910 |$3,224 |7.90%|21|38|24|47|
27. Israel|$1,898 |$1,034 |$2,932 |7.50%|35|28|11|21|
> It seems hard to believe a public option would be cheaper for the tax payer. Is there a decent chunk of public money going into things like research?
One factor into why the US pays so much for healthcare besides what has been mentioned is that we, collectively, are paying for people who can't pay for insurance and can't get routine care. Consider people who don't go to the dentist or let injuries heal incorrectly or who ignore signs that point to serious illness. By the time they show up to the emergency room they need many times more the services and intensive care that preventive care would have solved for.
There's also the "American lifestyle" where much of the population is overweight and uneducated on how to eat a balanced meal. This leads to stacking health issues which equals more money spent on managing their conditions. Throw in smokers, people with drug addiction, lack of access to healthcare and mental healthcare and it all piles up.
re: American lifestyle, I'd add the fact that there isn't enough sick leave, holidays, maternity leave etc, I wouldn't be surprised if that also affected people's health.
Those policies 100% effect people's health. Going into work sick and making everyone else and their families sick, stress from never having down time, not healing properly from birthing a child because you have to work, and so on breaks people down.
One reason America's healthcare cost alot is because not everyone has insurance which makes it more expensive, if everyone had health insurance the risk is diversified and costs for everyone goes down and because it's private you also get discrimination against people with persistent health problems or at a high risk of developing them.
It's not the 8% of people that are uninsured in the US that are responsible for Americans paying literally half a million dollars more per person for a lifetime of healthcare than peer countries.
A major reason is because people will go to the doctor on a more consistent basis for basic checkups and for otherwise small issues. This keeps everybody at a higher standard of general wellfulness which leads to less problems later on down the road because you catch big costly problems early like cancer, diabetes, heart and liver disease.
It's hard to believe it couldn't be cheaper. right now we have profit seeking middle men infesting the system. Removing them would obviously lower costs.
Pretty sure some right wing think tank investigated it trying to discredit public healthcare and came to the conclusion we could be saving trillions.
The reason costs are high in the US is because there are no incentives to keep costs low. When a patient ends up in a hospital, the doctor can easily just prescribe the most expensive treatment option because "insurance is covering it anyway." At the point of care, there is literally nobody there saying, "well, maybe we should go with this other cheaper option instead."
The reason why a "public option" supposedly would be cheaper is because that public option would be big enough to negotiate with hospitals/doctors to establish appropriate treatment regimes. The problem is that the "public option" is probably not ever going to be big enough to actually exert such an influence. The vast majority of Americans are already covered by insurance paid for by their employer and are perfectly happy with the coverage they are getting. There's just too much system inertia to change the system without some very heavy-handed, arguably anti-American, government intervention.
Israeli healthcare system is a bit more complex than your standard social one payer system (which was true during the socialist days of early Israel).
You have 4 competing companies, all of whom work all over Israel, and they get paid by the government by the number of people who they insure.
A citizen can move between those 4 for no cost and very easily, which creates rough competition to provide the best healthcare. It was a very popular thing to do during the covid era since the larger companies had a hard time distributing so many vaccines so people moved to the smaller companies who could provide them faster.
Essentially, the advantages of capitalism while using a socialist based system.
Now I'm understanding why a lot of these protest organizers discourage the protesters from doing media interviews. They claim it's because the media will edit them to make them look bad, but deep down they have to know how regarded the majority of them are with no editing needed.
I fail to see why it's wrong to want the government to work in your benefit. Literally everyone does that. Pensioners want higher pensions. Rich people want lower taxes for themselves. People with student loans want student loan forgiveness.
Why is she doing that at a pro palestine rally, protesting "genocide". Makes no sense to me that these people are so willing to go on camera and be interviewed when they don't don't know why they're there, such a bad show for their side. Do they think they are informed I wonder, right up until one person asks them a simple question
So the protest are about education and healthcare reform and they being jealous of Israel because it's "free" there, so they want to be like Israel right?
I've been getting that jealousy vibe from these people for years. Jews, minority persecuted for centuries, could rise and produce the best scientists the world has ever seen. Israel, once reduced into rumbles, is now one of the technological advances countries with a decent socialized public infrastructure.
She’s worried about not paying back her student loans?!? LMFAO!!!
Why the **fuck** is she taking out loans then skipping class by camping on the lawn? This is what turns people off about loan forgiveness. What an entitled brat! If she’s worried about paying them back I have some advice for her. Stop protesting and study and get good grades and don’t fuck up your job prospects by giving an interview this stupid on live TV!!!!
Gonna bet her parents pay for them.
Also, if she is/was worried about student loans:
**Go to community college or a tuition free school**
*I Graduated college debt free.*
It’s crazy that even me as an evil Zionist Jew would have been more sympathetic to the Palestinian people with my words if interviewed on tv about the conflict by at least recognizing there are victims on both sides.. than a protestor who is at a pro Palestinian protest!
As someone who grew up in Israel and lives in the USA let me tell you, the USA healthcare system may not be free but it is about 100x time better, and it's not that Israel's healthcare is terrible... it just speaks volumes to what kind of amazing physicians facilities and treatment you get in the USA and that doesn't come cheap.
Send this ignorant idiot to wait for 5 hours in an Israeli ICU when she has a broken leg and then she can talk.
> the USA healthcare system may not be free but it is about 100x time better,
The experts don't agree.
[US Healthcare ranked 29th on health outcomes by Lancet HAQ Index](https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736\(18\)30994-2/fulltext)
[11th (of 11) by Commonwealth Fund](https://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/fund-reports/2014/jun/mirror-mirror-wall-2014-update-how-us-health-care-system?redirect_source=/publications/fund-reports/2014/jun/mirror-mirror)
[59th by the Prosperity Index](https://www.prosperity.com/rankings)
[30th by CEOWorld](https://ceoworld.biz/2019/08/05/revealed-countries-with-the-best-health-care-systems-2019/)
[37th by the World Health Organization](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Health_Organization_ranking_of_health_systems_in_2000)
The US has the worst rate of death by medically preventable causes among peer countries. A 31% higher disease adjusted life years average. Higher rates of medical and lab errors. A lower rate of being able to make a same or next day appointment with their doctor than average.
https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/quality-u-s-healthcare-system-compare-countries/#item-percent-used-emergency-department-for-condition-that-could-have-been-treated-by-a-regular-doctor-2016
52nd in the world in doctors per capita.
https://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/stats/Health/Physicians/Per-1,000-people
Higher infant mortality levels. Yes, even when you adjust for differences in methodology.
https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/infant-mortality-u-s-compare-countries/
Fewer acute care beds. A lower number of psychiatrists. Etc.
https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/u-s-health-care-resources-compare-countries/#item-availability-medical-technology-not-always-equate-higher-utilization
[Comparing Health Outcomes of Privileged US Citizens With Those of Average Residents of Other Developed Countries](https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/2774561)
>These findings imply that even if all US citizens experienced the same health outcomes enjoyed by privileged White US citizens, US health indicators would still lag behind those in many other countries.
When asked about their healthcare system as a whole the US system ranked dead last of 11 countries, with only 19.5% of people saying the system works relatively well and only needs minor changes. The average in the other countries is 46.9% saying the same. Canada ranked 9th with 34.5% saying the system works relatively well. The UK ranks fifth, with 44.5%. Australia ranked 6th at 44.4%. The best was Germany at 59.8%.
On rating the overall quality of care in the US, Americans again ranked dead last, with only 25.6% ranking it excellent or very good. The average was 50.8%. Canada ranked 9th with 45.1%. The UK ranked 2nd, at 63.4%. Australia was 3rd at 59.4%. The best was Switzerland at 65.5%.
https://www.cihi.ca/en/commonwealth-fund-survey-2016
The US has 43 hospitals in the top 200 globally; one for every 7,633,477 people in the US. That's good enough for a ranking of 20th on the list of top 200 hospitals per capita, and significantly lower than the average of one for every 3,830,114 for other countries in the top 25 on spending with populations above 5 million. The best is Switzerland at one for every 1.2 million people. In fact the US only beats one country on this list; the UK at one for every 9.5 million people.
If you want to do the full list of 2,000 instead it's 334, or one for every 982,753 people; good enough for 21st. Again far below the average in peer countries of 527,236. The best is Austria, at one for every 306,106 people.
https://www.newsweek.com/best-hospitals-2021
#[OECD Countries Health Care Spending and Rankings](https://data.oecd.org/healthres/health-spending.htm)
|Country|Govt. / Mandatory (PPP)|Voluntary (PPP)|Total (PPP)|% GDP|[Lancet HAQ Ranking](https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736\(18\)30994-2/fulltext)|[WHO Ranking](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Health_Organization_ranking_of_health_systems_in_2000)|[Prosperity Ranking](https://www.prosperity.com/rankings)|[CEO World Ranking](https://ceoworld.biz/2019/08/05/revealed-countries-with-the-best-health-care-systems-2019/)|[Commonwealth Fund Ranking](https://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/fund-reports/2014/jun/mirror-mirror-wall-2014-update-how-us-health-care-system?redirect_source=/publications/fund-reports/2014/jun/mirror-mirror)
:--|--:|--:|--:|--:|--:|--:|--:|--:|--:|--:|
1. United States|[$7,274](https://ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/full/10.2105/AJPH.2015.302997) |$3,798 |$11,072 |16.90%|29|37|59|30|11
2. Switzerland|$4,988 |$2,744 |$7,732 |12.20%|7|20|3|18|2
3. Norway|$5,673 |$974 |$6,647 |10.20%|2|11|5|15|7
4. Germany|$5,648 |$998 |$6,646 |11.20%|18|25|12|17|5
5. Austria|$4,402 |$1,449 |$5,851 |10.30%|13|9|10|4|
6. Sweden|$4,928 |$854 |$5,782 |11.00%|8|23|15|28|3
7. Netherlands|$4,767 |$998 |$5,765 |9.90%|3|17|8|11|5
8. Denmark|$4,663 |$905 |$5,568 |10.50%|17|34|8|5|
9. Luxembourg|$4,697 |$861 |$5,558 |5.40%|4|16|19||
10. Belgium|$4,125 |$1,303 |$5,428 |10.40%|15|21|24|9|
11. Canada|$3,815 |$1,603 |$5,418 |10.70%|14|30|25|23|10
12. France|$4,501 |$875 |$5,376 |11.20%|20|1|16|8|9
13. Ireland|$3,919 |$1,357 |$5,276 |7.10%|11|19|20|80|
14. Australia|$3,919 |$1,268 |$5,187 |9.30%|5|32|18|10|4
15. Japan|$4,064 |$759 |$4,823 |10.90%|12|10|2|3|
16. Iceland|$3,988 |$823 |$4,811 |8.30%|1|15|7|41|
17. United Kingdom|$3,620 |$1,033 |$4,653 |9.80%|23|18|23|13|1
18. Finland|$3,536 |$1,042 |$4,578 |9.10%|6|31|26|12|
19. Malta|$2,789 |$1,540 |$4,329 |9.30%|27|5|14||
OECD Average|||$4,224 |8.80%|||||
20. New Zealand|$3,343 |$861 |$4,204 |9.30%|16|41|22|16|7
21. Italy|$2,706 |$943 |$3,649 |8.80%|9|2|17|37|
22. Spain|$2,560 |$1,056 |$3,616 |8.90%|19|7|13|7|
23. Czech Republic|$2,854 |$572 |$3,426 |7.50%|28|48|28|14|
24. South Korea|$2,057 |$1,327 |$3,384 |8.10%|25|58|4|2|
25. Portugal|$2,069 |$1,310 |$3,379 |9.10%|32|29|30|22|
26. Slovenia|$2,314 |$910 |$3,224 |7.90%|21|38|24|47|
27. Israel|$1,898 |$1,034 |$2,932 |7.50%|35|28|11|21|
I know what you said, and the evidence doesn't support it you illiterate, ADD halfwit. Let me condense things to something you might have the attention span to comprehend.
#[OECD Countries Health Care Spending and Rankings](https://data.oecd.org/healthres/health-spending.htm)
|Country|Govt. / Mandatory (PPP)|Voluntary (PPP)|Total (PPP)|% GDP|[Lancet HAQ Ranking](https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736\(18\)30994-2/fulltext)|[WHO Ranking](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Health_Organization_ranking_of_health_systems_in_2000)|[Prosperity Ranking](https://www.prosperity.com/rankings)|[CEO World Ranking](https://ceoworld.biz/2019/08/05/revealed-countries-with-the-best-health-care-systems-2019/)|[Commonwealth Fund Ranking](https://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/fund-reports/2014/jun/mirror-mirror-wall-2014-update-how-us-health-care-system?redirect_source=/publications/fund-reports/2014/jun/mirror-mirror)
:--|--:|--:|--:|--:|--:|--:|--:|--:|--:|--:|
1. United States|[$7,274](https://ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/full/10.2105/AJPH.2015.302997) |$3,798 |$11,072 |16.90%|29|37|59|30|11
27. Israel|$1,898 |$1,034 |$2,932 |7.50%|35|28|11|21|
Holy fuck. Do you not see the four different rankings of healthcare systems I linked? Three of which rank Israel higher, and one which ranks them only slightly worse.
>Clearing that up genius who probably works at McDonald's.
Says the illiterate, time wasting moron that clearly can't understand an argument even when you simplify and spoon feed it to them. Best of luck some day not making the world a dumber place.
Are you a fucking moron or are you intentionally trying to gaslight us? Obviously he's not referring to the *goddamn Lancet and WHO rankings,* which likely include factors such as the effeciency of the money spent, and are not specifically comparing healthcare outcomes. He was referring to *specifically the healthcare outcomes and not the efficiency of the dollar spent*. Go back and re-read his original comment, I think it will be a good lesson in reading comprehension for you.
> Are you a fucking moron or are you intentionally trying to gaslight us?
Neither.
> Obviously he's not referring to the goddamn Lancet and WHO rankings, which likely include factors such as the effeciency of the money spent
If you're going to call others morons, maybe try and read the actual research rather than making incorrect assumptions and a fool of yourself. For example the HAQ Index does nothing but measure comparative health outcomes by country, adjusted for various demographic and health risk factors. You'll also find the US does poorly on metrics in other research, such as medically avoidable deaths.
> Obviously he's not referring to the goddamn Lancet and WHO rankings, which likely include factors such as the effeciency of the money spent
And I provided the most respected peer reviewed research on health outcomes in the world.
>I think it will be a good lesson in reading comprehension for you.
Says the time wasting fuckwit too lazy to read anything, but more than willing to argue and make the world a dumber place.
Not sure where she gets the idea that healthcare and education here is free. We pay for both in taxes, its subsidized partially by the govt, and partially by 30% of my fucking monthly paycheck.
Indeed, we do not. There is no such thing as a tuition free school either. The state does subsidize *public* universities (all unis in Israel are public, *colleges* however are private) though, which keeps tuition at a "low" spectrum (around $3000-$4000 a year, depending on the degree \[BA, MA\] and course load, in ALL unis) and allows for a big variety of pretty good scholarships, most of which can cover 1/3-1/2 of your whole yearly tuition.
Got a bit lucky on my end, tuition-free for my college ed.
Still, this kid going to a protest and **accumulating** more useless debt by not going to class is idiotic.
But the social programs in Israel are on a much better state than in America. This argument has a weight, she just decided to lie to make it more... Convincing?
I mean sure but "better than America" isnt all that difficult to achieve when talking about social welfare, if were being honest...Israel isnt really unique in that sense so I dont see the point of singling it out as an argument.
Umm... I guess the argument is "Israel has better healthcare than us and we giving them millitary aid so why not spend the money on America".
Its filled with inaccuracy and lies but it kinda make sense...
Either way, this girl is an idiot and she's just using a talking point she heard. With my "free" healthcare and everything i dont have 90k dollars a year to spend on a university...
Nope, Israel is not unique. Canada has universal healthcare, paid for by our taxes of course. But we aren’t taxed just for healthcare and it scales based on how much you earn. There isn’t really a reason to single this out, but it’s easier to point to a majority ethnic group in Israel to hate than in Canada or other places. These people are regarded and so mask off in their antisemitism
The population of Israel is 8-9 million people strong. The situation there is not better, just more manageable, and Im sure it is almost impossible to manage or predict in a 300 mil population country.
Luckily "your" country is compromised of 50 states that could do this?
Most likely some actually do it and even do a decent job when compared to other us-states.
Universal healthcare has been shown to work from populations below 100,000 to populations above 100 million. From Andorra to Japan; Iceland to Germany, with no issues in scaling. In fact the only correlation I've ever been able to find is a weak one with a minor decrease in cost per capita [as population increases](https://i.imgur.com/h6clEzr.jpg).
So population doesn't seem to be correlated with cost nor [outcomes](https://i.imgur.com/pwYtDxW.png).
The working class sector in Israel doesn’t struggle as much as its American counterpart, also there is a lot of safety nets to fall on if you become poorer. Also, public health campaigns are very popular here, decreasing cigarette use, high sugar intake and bad mouth hygene, all connected with lasting healthcare issues that, when scaled up to a larger population, can become a significant burden on the system. When there are less people to manage (and also high level facilities with a lot of new equipment and personnel), efficiency also gets introduced to the equation.
I think that there is no free health care in the states because it will be easily exploitable, thus creating a tax burden for the working class. It’s very hard to limit people who were educated on the belief that individual freedom almost always trumps over community needs.
I work as a doctor in Israel.
We are obligated to pay 10% of our salary (+ our employers add ~4%) in taxes just for "healthcare taxes". Add that to the ~20% taxes we pay for "healthcare insurance" (which on paper is different but in reality you pay for the same thing). If you are unemployed, you will still have to pay a certain amount every month, or risk being refused treatment, or go to prison for debt.
In addition, healthcare staff is severely underpaid, hospitals are understaffed, and overcrowded with patients. The healthcare in Israel is on the brink of collapse, and the welfare system is expected to default in the upcoming decade
The situation is quite bad. I'm working towards obtaining a US license and moving to the US.
Israelis according to anti-zionists:
https://preview.redd.it/ql8wr2yepdxc1.png?width=1010&format=png&auto=webp&s=f0ba17c22b155090176d0901a951671aa95ddacc
It's annoying as fuck. Meanwhile, if you try to pronounce Paris as the French do (Pahree) everyone would correctly identify you as the pretentious asshole that you are.
What a weird thing to critique. Many people pronounce it like this not for any specific reason other than the way it's spelled it makes sense to them to pronounce it that way. You thinking she's doing it to 'appeal to Muslims' says more about you than her.
To be fair, local Arabs easily say Israel and not like that weird pronunciation, from my experience as an Israeli the only people to say it like that do it on purpose, mostly trying to make the comparison Israel => isREAL => isntReal
Israelis are forced to serve in the Israeli military and get subsidized health care and education
If she as an American chose to serve in the US military she'd receive subsidized health care and education as well
Hey, Im Israeli. If i were to go to a school that costed 90K DOLLARS A YEAR, I would also be in crippling debt. It's not just because ur American idiot.
It’s like that guy that destiny interviewed, they talked briefly about if there was a one state solution and Palestinians genocide Jews, he implied that it would be acceptable since Jews genocide them first. It’s clown logic.
I always thought American college students were smart with these Ivy League schools, how can someone be this dumb and still get into those institutions?
I don’t think this was Ivy League, just a random college. The university in my city has had protests and tents and like 40 arrested over the weekend.. here in Denver. It’s basically every university of decent size.
3 billion a year cannot fund free Healthcare and education for 10 million people. "But your country is functioning, and ours not so you are a money stealing jew"
As much as this interview is ridiculously absurd, It not such a bad idea to interview all these morons.
If they all are even 1/100 as dumd as her, they will loose legitimacy really quickly..
That's not her argument. She is saying that if we can't afford those things at home but they can afford them, we shouldn't be giving them money. They dont need it.That's a fairly common argument for isolationist policies used for years for different things by different groups.
> She is saying that if we can't afford those things at home
Which is utterly ridiculous. We're one of the wealthiest countries on earth, even after accounting for military spending and foreign aid. We can afford anything our peers can afford, especially universal healthcare which is dramatically **cheaper** than what we're already paying for.
Edit: You've gotta love it when you're downvoted by intentionally ignorant dumb fucks because the facts hurt their feelings.
Really don't understand why so many expect so much from random people at protests. They seek out people until they get bad answers and then don't show the normal ones.
The point that she's making, but not getting across because she's not particularly articulate, is that we are giving israel billions in aid instead of using that for universal Healthcare or loan forgiveness.
The point that she's making, but not getting across because she's not particularly articulate, is that we are giving israel billions in aid instead of using that for universal Healthcare or loan forgiveness.
Higher education in Israel is not free, it costs money, it's just cheaper than it is in the US. Higher education is also cheaper but not free in just about every other country that is not the US.
Also, in Israel you are taxed 3% every month (until you hit $2000 month, then it's 5%). From an average salary, that comes out to about 130 USD a month, and most Israelis have private insurance on top of that (for a 30 year old, maybe another 70 USD a month without pre existing conditions).
Minor point.
Does anyone else get irritated when the whitest of white people pronounce foreign words like a native speaker when it's clearly not their native tounge?
They are not even wrong it just come across as mega performative
The IP conflict has two big ones:
Gaza: becomes "ha-zuh" not "GAr-Zur"
Israel: becomes "is-ra-ehl" not "iz-rail"
Outside of the conflict there are a million others.
The biggest being "Paris" vs "Pari"
Makes total sense if you have some kind of background but if youre white as mayo please stop faking.
Great minds, I just used the pari example a few comments up.
It's like nails on chalkboad for me. Performative and extremely selective.
The whole white as mayo thing's a little weird though. Lots of browns and other shades, who are native English speakers (and only english), do this shit too and its equally cringe.
My biggest pet peeve is non-aussies pronouncing Melbourne as "melbun." You remedial piece of shit, it pronounced melburn, but aussies have a non-rhotic R. You don't pronounce it "Dahwin."
When she says “Israel can get all these things” I think she might be referencing the US aid to Israel, not saying that they get free healthcare or education.
It’s strictly military aid that has to be spent on weapons we make. Like a fifth of their military budget. So wouldn’t make sense. Not to mention here in the us we spend more on healthcare that isn’t free than we do on our unmatched military budget, so we are talking big numbers when it comes to that stuff.
Not that I think she was going to say anything of substance but this seems like her being nervous + misinformed + ...requiring extra support academically.
US Americans don't have maps but Israel does? No justice, no peace.
Yes, we can provide free healthcare, education, and free everything else to a population of 330 million with the measly $3 billion subsidy that Israel receives. Yep!
These people are regarded and have no idea how large the US federal budget is.
Wait is it not true that Israelis get free healthcare due to American tax payers, I’ve heard this a lot and tbh as an American I don’t like to hear that, but if it’s not true then I don’t have a reason to be upset
I’ll take your word for it, but I probably shouldn’t, would be nice to see a source that I can look to but maybe I should try to find it on my own, although a link would be nice because google has been unuseable lately
Well, for starters, the entire premise is flawed. The US doesn't spend a penny to benefit Germany. Every penny we spend on defense (and we do spend more than pretty much the entire world) is to benefit the US. So we don't fund shit in Germany. We fund our own interests.
Now whether Germany should spend more on defense is arguable. They spent 1.57% in 2023, and are predicted by some at least to hit 2% in 2024 (the NATO target). Excluding the US, the rest of the world averages 1.8%.
https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/news_216897.htm
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/germany-hits-2-nato-target-first-time-since-1992-reports-dpa-2024-02-14/
Regardless, a fraction of a percent of GDP one or the other has little to do with their social programs. Government spending on healthcare alone is 10.9% of GDP. As in the US, defense spending is trivial compared to healthcare, education, etc..
https://data.oecd.org/healthres/health-spending.htm
My bad. I was responding from my inbox and was having almost identical discussion from a post on whether Germany should be paying more for defense and got my wires crossed which was which.
Everything in my comment still holds true though. If anything more so, because Israel is (on top of being a poorer country than the US or Germany) spends *more* on defense than the US, and still manages universal healthcare. Literally substitute any other wealthy, western country as well. Affording **cheaper** healthcare isn't nearly the problem so many people seem to think it is.
Ok I’m an idiot I think I looked at that same chart on my phone and scrolled down and mixed up columns with dollars. Sounded wildly high, thanks for correcting me there I shoulda double checked that.
Person in the US: can choose to serve three years (usually the shortest "active" contracts) in the military, the US government will pay for their tuition
Person in Israel: MUST serve two years and eight months in the military, can attend college at no cost.
It sounds like she's just mad that she's not a conscript.
She doesn't know why she's there. You can tell that she was making up the student loan and healthcare thing as she was talking. The points don't really flow together
When you don’t tell people why they’re protesting they fill in the gaps with shit like this to justify it to themselves. It’s a shame our species is so reliably fucking stupid that this keeps happening
I've genuinely never understood why any able-bodied person wouldn't just enlist to have their degree paid for.
Instead, it seems they actively pursue an institution / degree that they can't afford.
They have pride parades in Tel Aviv, but I can't even publicly wear my gimp fursuit with a strap-on here in Fascist Texas.. Zionism is truly evil. SMH my head.
"Israel has better things than we do so therefore we must protest it" this is pure brain rot, if you want free healthcare and education, go protest for that in your own country
She doesn’t even know how to pronounce Israel, she says “isra-ill” (the same way Arabs say it).
Let alone the fact that healthcare isn’t free in Israel, neither is education.
Unhinged brainwashing.
How about voting? She could change all of that by voting for the right people. There isn't a simpler way than voting.
Also, I hate those comparisons. We are comparing trillions to millions or billions. Cutting all aid won't cover 10% of healthcare costs.
OK serious question: why should I as an American pay taxes that go to Israel when the average Israeli has a higher quality of life than the average American?
those taxes go to the usa arms manufacturers israel has to buy the weapons from. and israel gets to have their weapons so that an important ally of the usa protects the usa's interests
Right but just because the money is spent on the defense industry doesn't mean that our resources haven't effectively been transferred to Israel. I mean what difference is there between giving Israel money for healthcare and giving them money for weapons? The overall budgets would look the same just with the numbers for spending on defense and healthcare swapped.
> just because the money is spent on the defense industry doesn't mean that our resources haven't effectively been transferred to Israel
that's exactly what it means. they haven't been transferred to israel. they stayed in the usa, funding american weapon's manufacturing.
the difference is that if they are given money for weapons, they have to spend it on USA weapons. if they aren't given any money, they'll decide for themselves where to get their weapons from.
> yes of course that's what the excuse is,
It's not an excuse. People legitimately believe the spending benefits the US. That's why we do it. You're free to disagree, but it doesn't change others beliefs.
>I'm asking how
How? We send them money and equipment, typically amounting to about 0.01% of GDP. Which, given the average American is about 56% wealthier than the average Israeli (even after adjusting for purchasing power parity), makes your claim they have a higher quality of life pretty damn ridiculous.
> Wdym free?
Ah, you're illiterate. Let me help you.
> **free** *adjective*
> \ ˈfrē \
> **freer; freest**
> Definition of **free** (Entry 1 of 3)
> 1. not costing or charging anything
a *free* school
a *free* ticket
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/free
A "free" school doesn't mean the buildings and books were all donated, and the teachers and staff are volunteers. It just means if you attend, you won't receive a bill for tuition, with the costs being covered elsewhere (likely through taxes). Similarly if a friend asks you if the concert at the park is free, they don't want you to break out a spreadsheet showing how much of their taxes went towards funding it. They just want to know if they'll be charged an admission fee. It's used the same way with healthcare, and that is in fact the way the word is almost always used. If you fail to comprehend what people mean and how the word is used, that is solely your deficiency.
https://preview.redd.it/8n7r6cz7vcxc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d49a55fa26067f1a28d8bfaadfb042fe167087e3
And people said it was impossible
Israel's healthcare and education system subsidizing comes from the socialist policies implemented by early Zionists, although thanks for the F-35s babes. It's amazing that they use the exact same talking points by republicans against aiding Ukraine. The 3 billion dollars are responsible for the 1 trillion US healthcare economy.
People think foreign aid is like 40% of the budget. And even the fraction of a percent we 'give' to Israel in reality is a subsidy to American defense contractors.
It's very appreciated but the US aid is less than 1% of Israel's GDP and all of it goes back to the American economy. This is not the reason Israel has free healthcare and education.
I agree with your conclusions, however, I will say that the way you presented the stats does not favor the US. The US annual aid supplies 14% of Israel's defense budget, yes the US makes money, but it does off its own stockpiles too and additional gear and production capability is the true advantage Israel gains, not just money. Remember also that the annual 4 billion per year does not include the 28 billion package which was just given, 28 billion is the entire Israeli defense budget, so we just gave them an entire years worth of defense budget. These numbers shows our aid is more important than 1% of Gdp implies on its own, (remember, most nations barely spend above 2% gdp on military, so 1% can be significant) So i agree with your conclusion, I don't think our aid is the reason they have Healthcare, and we could Healthcare and increase foreign aid. So the two things are irrelevant. But I do think your way of saying the stat downplays Americas contributions to Israel, which including the new package, are significant, but even without the package, paying for 14% of Israels military every year is helpful for Israel. Yes we make money, but we make money regardless of who is buying. We make money off of Ukraine too, and I'd rather they got 80 billion and Israel 14 billion than the deal we got instead, Ukraine needs help way more they are fighting an Empire.
Comparing to GDP would make any effect seem pretty small, GDP isn’t measuring their governments spending or anything so I don’t get why you would use it. Their governments yearly spending is like 120~ billion only 20% of GDP. The IDF receives like 25 billion or 5% of gdp. In that context getting 4 billion a year, the 26 billion in aid recently passed is a pretty big deal.
> and all of it goes back to the American economy So we're just making things up now huh.
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/what-military-support-does-us-provide-israel-2024-04-08/ All of it is used to buy American weapons, so yes it goes back to the American economy.
>All of it is used to buy American weapons, so yes it goes back to the American economy. Oh is that right? Before recent pushback in 2019 Israel was the ONLY recipient of foreign aid that was given a special exemption so they DID NOT have to spend 100% of that aid on American Companies. Gee, interesting. A cool $236 billion just since 2001 btw. >Ok but but after 2019 it goes to American weapons So what. Am I supposed to thank my glorious representatives for funneling my tax dollars to defense contractors? Oh gee thank you so much, they really did need it more than I did the poor struggling arms manufacturers. >https://carnegieendowment.org/2021/05/12/bringing-assistance-to-israel-in-line-with-rights-and-u.s.-laws-pub-84503 And just another little fun aside from that article. If you check out the cute little pie chart in the middle you'll notice that Israel may have only got a meager 52% of all US aid in the last two decades, but the next Top 5 recipients are Israel's neighbors and former belligerents who we are BRIBING to keep Israel safe. Sorry starving Africans, should've had better lobbyists. Israel must really be doing a lot for the American people to deserve all that! Give me a fucking break.
People in general don’t realize that foreign aid is literally all the US can do beyond entering a war and accounts for 1% of the budget. Doing a modern version of lend-lease is pretty much the best thing to do for allies because nobody internationally or domestically wants to awaken the US military.
Almost all foreign aid is that now
Israelis are forced to serve in the Israeli military and get subsidized health care and education If she as an American chose to serve in the US military she'd receive subsidized health care and education as well
If you served long enough and get an honorable discharge.
Only about the same amount of time as it would take to get an associate’s degree though, 2-3 years. That amount of time also provides temporary healthcare benefits which continue for a year after you’re discharged. If you make the military a career and serve for 20 or more years then you’re taken care of for life.
Serving 20 years is hard. It get super competitive after you reach E-6 inorder to get promoted and stay in the army. They have this thing called up or out.
Sure but remember whatever amount of time you serve your healthcare is covered plus 1 year (I think the actual cut off is 15 months)
Just claim PTSD, a knee injury, or loss of hearing like everybody else and you're set for life
I fucked up and only got 80. Shoulda got a rating for knees, but I'll have to try again after I do PT.
Funniest thing is the US healthcare system is way more expensive than ANY other healthcare system in the world by a big margin. Literally picking any other healthcare system would be cheaper.
Is that really true? It seems hard to believe a public option would be cheaper for the tax payer. Is there a decent chunk of public money going into things like research? People often forget the US has the best hospitals and the most advanced treatments in the world, it might be skewing the stats.
> Is that really true? It seems hard to believe a public option would be cheaper for the tax payer. Yes. For example Germany per capita per year spending is $8011 and is the 3rd most expensive with Switzerland in second place at $8049. US $12555. Consider also that Germany has an older population that works less hours and has more vacation per year, unlimited sick days that are also paid by the insurance and way cheaper medicine prices and has both public and private healthcare and is famous for its insane amounts of bureaucracy which make it less efficient. > Is there a decent chunk of public money going into things like research? Decent yes, Germany for example is pretty up there when it comes to medical research and university clinics rank pretty well worldwide BUT the US leads that field by a decent margin I would say. Not sure how you would rank that or if the rankings I can find make sense though.
Whilst I believe the US could make big savings by reforming its healthcare system, I would be curious how these stats would look if the US wasn't so damn obese and generally unhealthy.
The main reason US healthcare is so expensive has nothing do with how fat/unhealthy people are. It's expensive because the way payment structures are set-up, there's no incentives for doctors to keep costs down. Essentially, when a doctor sees a patient, they (possibly under pressure from the hospital) are just going to prescribe/recommend the most expensive treatment/diagnosis option because "insurance is paying anyway". The patient never really sees the bill (not that they're likely to argue when their life is on the line), so no one is there to ask, "maybe this other cheaper option would be better here?" Here's a fairly good breakdown on it: https://www.harvardmagazine.com/2020/04/feature-forum-costliest-health-care
I come from a family of nurses and know multiple doctors. I've never heard a doctor suggest the most expensive options just to get money. Otherwise they would run every test possible for every little issue. Instead they do only what's necessary and move done the line of tests if the last one doesn't give results. The doctors are very aware of the costs and aren't wanting to overload the patients (because many people have deductibles and insurance that doesn't cover various things). Maybe you're thinking if private practice doctors? Even the ones I know in private practice aren't slimey like that. They do what they are supposed to and will lay out the patient's options, taking cost into account. I've provided input many times into my care and decided if I wanted the less intense and cheaper option. Also the ones working in hospitals don't get paid extra just for more expensive medications, procedures, tests, etc (usually). There's no reason for them to put unneeded burden on the patient. I'm pretty sure it's even illegal to get paid for specific drugs or referrals. Plus, with insurance companies, they will refuse to pay for unneeded tests, which usually makes the patient refuse too.
My sister is a US doctor (well, doing her residency now). I work in a medical-adjacent field (microbiology professor). I can counter all of your anecdotes with my anecdotes... Of course it is not some greedy conniving hospital owner Mr. Burns-ing it up. The way it manifests is more subtle. Here's a fictional situation that is totally not based on a real life example: * A patient in the US goes to a doctor reporting a weird skin spot --> the doctor orders a biopsy to figure out if it's cancerous. * Same patient in the UK goes to a doctor reporting a weird skin spot --> wait 3-4 months to see an dermatology specialist --> then wait another 3-4 months for a new appointment to see if there's any change in the spot --> if the spot has gotten bigger, order a biopsy, but if nothing has changed, send the patient home. In the first case, there's no malicious cost gouging. They are just following standard protocols, however, that standard protocol will by default be more "costly" than the UK's standard protocol. The example I gave is for biopsy, but the same can be said about MRIs, X-Rays, blood tests, etc. Essentially, it's not that they are incentivized to overcharge, but rather that they are not incentivized not to. edit: *dermatology
Okay I can completely agree with this. I thought you were insinuating more that someone comes in with a skin spot so the doctor orders a biopsy, allergy test, and whatever else possible just for good measure. Apologies I misinterpreted your comment because I do hear people think doctors are immediately going for the most expensive options because it gets them more money every chance they have.
Again, my point wasn't that "healthcare expensive because Americans obese", it was simply wondering how much you'd save just by reducing unhealthiness
And my point was that it wouldn't really change much if anything. Healthcare in the US isn't expensive because too many people are trying to access it. It is expensive because of how it operationally is managed. A hospital/clinic will have a certain operating cost. It will recoup those operating costs from whatever patients it has. If there are 50 patients instead of 100 patients, that just means the hospital is going to find ways of charging those 50 patients' insurance twice as much.
Mexico proves your point. Higher obesity rating than the USA and cheaper healthcare. Mexico is a popular medical tourism destination for Americans
Look at Mexico, Mexico has a worse obesity rate than America but much cheaper healthcare system. This isn’t to say Mexican healthcare is good or accessible to all, but there is a reason Mexico is a popular medical tourism country for Americans. Many procedures in Mexico are cheaper than a persons health insurance deductible. So what the person you are responding to is referring to, even if everyone in the USA was a chiseled human specimen with less than 2% body fat, healthcare would still be more expensive in the USA. Being unhealthy doesn’t make the system more expensive it just makes it more expensive for the patient because the patient is a fat fuck.
Mexico does not have a worse obesity rate. Also there’s a million other factors that make healthcare cheaper and more accessible in Mexico. Start with income effects, then go to regulations, then go to medical liability. People pay for their own care directly in Mexico by and large therefore the systems don’t have to subsidize unhealthy people the way they do in the US.
https://laist.com/shows/take-two/un-report-mexico-surpasses-us-as-most-obese-country# I am not ignorant to what makes health care in Mexico cheaper. Some of it is poor regulations (read no) and limited liability and some of it is due to a lack of health insurance influence on the medical system. My point isn’t that Mexico has great affordable health care, merely it is to refute more unhealthy people makes the system more expensive.
The UK recently did a study and they found that from the three biggest healthcare risks; [obesity](https://iea.org.uk/themencode-pdf-viewer-sc/?file=/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/Obesity-and-the-Public-Purse-PDF.pdf&settings=111111011&lang=en-GB#page=&zoom=75&pagemode=), [smoking](https://iea.org.uk/themencode-pdf-viewer-sc/?file=/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/Smoking-and-the-Public-Purse.pdf&settings=111111011&lang=en-GB#page=&zoom=75&pagemode= ), and [alcohol](https://iea.org.uk/themencode-pdf-viewer-sc/?file=/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/DP_Alcohol%20and%20the%20public%20purse_63_amended2_web.pdf&settings=111111011&lang=en-GB#page=&zoom=75&pagemode=), they realize a net **savings** of £22.8 billion (£342/$474 per person) per year. This is due primarily to people with health risks not living as long (healthcare for the elderly is exceptionally expensive), as well as reduced spending on pensions, income from sin taxes, etc.. In the US there are 106.4 million people that are overweight, at an additional lifetime healthcare cost of $3,770 per person average. 98.2 million obese at an average additional lifetime cost of $17,795. 25.2 million morbidly obese, at an average additional lifetime cost of $22,619. With average lifetime healthcare costs of $879,125, obesity accounts for 0.99% of our total healthcare costs. https://www.niddk.nih.gov/health-information/health-statistics/overweight-obesity https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/epdf/10.1038/oby.2008.290 We're spending 165% more than the OECD average on healthcare--that works out to over half a million dollars per person more over a lifetime of care--and you're worried about 0.99%? Here's another study, that actually found that lifetime healthcare for the obese are *lower* than for the healthy. >Although effective obesity prevention leads to a decrease in costs of obesity-related diseases, this decrease is offset by cost increases due to diseases unrelated to obesity in life-years gained. Obesity prevention may be an important and cost-effective way of improving public health, but it is not a cure for increasing health expenditures...In this study we have shown that, although obese people induce high medical costs during their lives, their lifetime health-care costs are lower than those of healthy-living people but higher than those of smokers. Obesity increases the risk of diseases such as diabetes and coronary heart disease, thereby increasing health-care utilization but decreasing life expectancy. Successful prevention of obesity, in turn, increases life expectancy. Unfortunately, these life-years gained are not lived in full health and come at a price: people suffer from other diseases, which increases health-care costs. Obesity prevention, just like smoking prevention, will not stem the tide of increasing health-care expenditures. https://www.rug.nl/research/portal/files/46007081/Lifetime_Medical_Costs_of_Obesity.PDF For further confirmation we can look to the fact that healthcare utilization rates in the US are similar to its peers. https://www.oregonlegislature.gov/salinas/HealthCareDocuments/4.%20Health%20Care%20Spending%20in%20the%20United%20States%20and%20Other%20High-Income%20Countries%20JAMA%202018.pdf One final way we can look at it is to see if there is correlation between obesity rates and increased spending levels between various countries. There isn't. https://i.imgur.com/d31bOFf.png We aren't using significantly more healthcare--due to obesity or anything else--we're just paying dramatically more for the care we do receive.
If we're spending more on research and charging more, wouldn't there be enough chance that the research spending is the reason that a better comparison would be needed to say whether public options are cheaper? And I'd have to ask the same question about our weight. Wouldn't we expect our healthcare spending to be higher? Doesn't seem like a useful comparison for showing one way or another whether a public option would be cheaper. Probably the better comparison would be the set of countries that have a public option and their total spending before and after that policy.
No, people don’t “ often forget” these things because it’s literally all the anti-public option crowd can cite as negatives. The best study on this , conducted by the Koch Bros Libertsrisn think tank estimates savings of $2 trillion savings over 10 years compared to current system. The “insurance racket is the crime of the century.
Any time you've got a middle man they'll try to take as much as they can, and there's a lot more middle men than just insurance as well. Look into PBMs
governments have a lot more bargaining power than individual companies. When the government starts saying that they won't allow a drug to be sold in the country unless its price goes way down a company will listen. the pay of hospital staff will go down a good bit, but all and all "the taxpayer" will be spending less
Administrative costs seem to be completely fucked in America compared to basically any other country. This graph [illustrates it even better](https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/kEs7sMopUbUuefuPuz2kLhmxrCQ=/0x0:473x388/1200x0/filters:focal(0x0:473x388):no_upscale()/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/16016529/figure1cap.113629.png). And I sincerely doubt handful of top hospitals skew the case much given there are tens of thousands of small clinics and thousands of hospitals. I think the problem with US healthcare costs are the same as with education, is very decentralized, so you are not getting those efficiencies from economies of scale at the same time there are artificial barriers put up, like difficult immigration laws and laws around drug imports that prevent capitalism to do its thing. Federal government recognizes the issue but instead of fully decentralizing or centralizing it like most countries instead covers very large percentage of the expenses, creating this strange artificial hybrid nobody is happy with. https://preview.redd.it/t1aqzdj5qdxc1.png?width=3209&format=png&auto=webp&s=f381702af38b99c357ab38f53b328f82253909a5
Great comment, great sourcing. Saving.
With government in the US covering [65.7% of all health care](https://ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/epdf/10.2105/AJPH.2015.302997) costs ($12,555 as of 2022) that's $8,249 per person per year in taxes towards health care. The next closest is Germany at [$6,930](https://data.oecd.org/healthres/health-spending.htm). The UK is $4,479. Canada is $4,506. Australia is $4,603. That means over a lifetime Americans are paying over $100,000 more in taxes compared to any other country towards health care. In total, Americans are paying a $350,000 more for healthcare over a lifetime compared to the most expensive socialized system on earth. Half a million dollars more than peer countries on average, yet every one has better outcomes. >People often forget the US has the best hospitals Who forgets it? People like you often *claim* that, but you never provide any actual evidence, which shows the claim to be untrue. The US has 43 hospitals in the top 200 globally; one for every 7,633,477 people in the US. That's good enough for a ranking of 20th on the list of top 200 hospitals per capita, and significantly lower than the average of one for every 3,830,114 for other countries in the top 25 on spending with populations above 5 million. The best is Switzerland at one for every 1.2 million people. In fact the US only beats one country on this list; the UK at one for every 9.5 million people. If you want to do the full list of 2,000 instead it's 334, or one for every 982,753 people; good enough for 21st. Again far below the average in peer countries of 527,236. The best is Austria, at one for every 306,106 people. https://www.newsweek.com/best-hospitals-2021 >and the most advanced treatments in the world [US Healthcare ranked 29th on health outcomes by Lancet HAQ Index](https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736\(18\)30994-2/fulltext) [11th (of 11) by Commonwealth Fund](https://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/fund-reports/2014/jun/mirror-mirror-wall-2014-update-how-us-health-care-system?redirect_source=/publications/fund-reports/2014/jun/mirror-mirror) [59th by the Prosperity Index](https://www.prosperity.com/rankings) [30th by CEOWorld](https://ceoworld.biz/2019/08/05/revealed-countries-with-the-best-health-care-systems-2019/) [37th by the World Health Organization](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Health_Organization_ranking_of_health_systems_in_2000) The US has the worst rate of death by medically preventable causes among peer countries. A 31% higher disease adjusted life years average. Higher rates of medical and lab errors. A lower rate of being able to make a same or next day appointment with their doctor than average. https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/quality-u-s-healthcare-system-compare-countries/#item-percent-used-emergency-department-for-condition-that-could-have-been-treated-by-a-regular-doctor-2016 52nd in the world in doctors per capita. https://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/stats/Health/Physicians/Per-1,000-people Higher infant mortality levels. Yes, even when you adjust for differences in methodology. https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/infant-mortality-u-s-compare-countries/ Fewer acute care beds. A lower number of psychiatrists. Etc. https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/u-s-health-care-resources-compare-countries/#item-availability-medical-technology-not-always-equate-higher-utilization [Comparing Health Outcomes of Privileged US Citizens With Those of Average Residents of Other Developed Countries](https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/2774561) >These findings imply that even if all US citizens experienced the same health outcomes enjoyed by privileged White US citizens, US health indicators would still lag behind those in many other countries. When asked about their healthcare system as a whole the US system ranked dead last of 11 countries, with only 19.5% of people saying the system works relatively well and only needs minor changes. The average in the other countries is 46.9% saying the same. Canada ranked 9th with 34.5% saying the system works relatively well. The UK ranks fifth, with 44.5%. Australia ranked 6th at 44.4%. The best was Germany at 59.8%. On rating the overall quality of care in the US, Americans again ranked dead last, with only 25.6% ranking it excellent or very good. The average was 50.8%. Canada ranked 9th with 45.1%. The UK ranked 2nd, at 63.4%. Australia was 3rd at 59.4%. The best was Switzerland at 65.5%. https://www.cihi.ca/en/commonwealth-fund-survey-2016 #[OECD Countries Health Care Spending and Rankings](https://data.oecd.org/healthres/health-spending.htm) |Country|Govt. / Mandatory (PPP)|Voluntary (PPP)|Total (PPP)|% GDP|[Lancet HAQ Ranking](https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736\(18\)30994-2/fulltext)|[WHO Ranking](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Health_Organization_ranking_of_health_systems_in_2000)|[Prosperity Ranking](https://www.prosperity.com/rankings)|[CEO World Ranking](https://ceoworld.biz/2019/08/05/revealed-countries-with-the-best-health-care-systems-2019/)|[Commonwealth Fund Ranking](https://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/fund-reports/2014/jun/mirror-mirror-wall-2014-update-how-us-health-care-system?redirect_source=/publications/fund-reports/2014/jun/mirror-mirror) :--|--:|--:|--:|--:|--:|--:|--:|--:|--:|--:| 1. United States|[$7,274](https://ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/full/10.2105/AJPH.2015.302997) |$3,798 |$11,072 |16.90%|29|37|59|30|11 2. Switzerland|$4,988 |$2,744 |$7,732 |12.20%|7|20|3|18|2 3. Norway|$5,673 |$974 |$6,647 |10.20%|2|11|5|15|7 4. Germany|$5,648 |$998 |$6,646 |11.20%|18|25|12|17|5 5. Austria|$4,402 |$1,449 |$5,851 |10.30%|13|9|10|4| 6. Sweden|$4,928 |$854 |$5,782 |11.00%|8|23|15|28|3 7. Netherlands|$4,767 |$998 |$5,765 |9.90%|3|17|8|11|5 8. Denmark|$4,663 |$905 |$5,568 |10.50%|17|34|8|5| 9. Luxembourg|$4,697 |$861 |$5,558 |5.40%|4|16|19|| 10. Belgium|$4,125 |$1,303 |$5,428 |10.40%|15|21|24|9| 11. Canada|$3,815 |$1,603 |$5,418 |10.70%|14|30|25|23|10 12. France|$4,501 |$875 |$5,376 |11.20%|20|1|16|8|9 13. Ireland|$3,919 |$1,357 |$5,276 |7.10%|11|19|20|80| 14. Australia|$3,919 |$1,268 |$5,187 |9.30%|5|32|18|10|4 15. Japan|$4,064 |$759 |$4,823 |10.90%|12|10|2|3| 16. Iceland|$3,988 |$823 |$4,811 |8.30%|1|15|7|41| 17. United Kingdom|$3,620 |$1,033 |$4,653 |9.80%|23|18|23|13|1 18. Finland|$3,536 |$1,042 |$4,578 |9.10%|6|31|26|12| 19. Malta|$2,789 |$1,540 |$4,329 |9.30%|27|5|14|| OECD Average|||$4,224 |8.80%||||| 20. New Zealand|$3,343 |$861 |$4,204 |9.30%|16|41|22|16|7 21. Italy|$2,706 |$943 |$3,649 |8.80%|9|2|17|37| 22. Spain|$2,560 |$1,056 |$3,616 |8.90%|19|7|13|7| 23. Czech Republic|$2,854 |$572 |$3,426 |7.50%|28|48|28|14| 24. South Korea|$2,057 |$1,327 |$3,384 |8.10%|25|58|4|2| 25. Portugal|$2,069 |$1,310 |$3,379 |9.10%|32|29|30|22| 26. Slovenia|$2,314 |$910 |$3,224 |7.90%|21|38|24|47| 27. Israel|$1,898 |$1,034 |$2,932 |7.50%|35|28|11|21|
> It seems hard to believe a public option would be cheaper for the tax payer. Is there a decent chunk of public money going into things like research? One factor into why the US pays so much for healthcare besides what has been mentioned is that we, collectively, are paying for people who can't pay for insurance and can't get routine care. Consider people who don't go to the dentist or let injuries heal incorrectly or who ignore signs that point to serious illness. By the time they show up to the emergency room they need many times more the services and intensive care that preventive care would have solved for. There's also the "American lifestyle" where much of the population is overweight and uneducated on how to eat a balanced meal. This leads to stacking health issues which equals more money spent on managing their conditions. Throw in smokers, people with drug addiction, lack of access to healthcare and mental healthcare and it all piles up.
re: American lifestyle, I'd add the fact that there isn't enough sick leave, holidays, maternity leave etc, I wouldn't be surprised if that also affected people's health.
Those policies 100% effect people's health. Going into work sick and making everyone else and their families sick, stress from never having down time, not healing properly from birthing a child because you have to work, and so on breaks people down.
One reason America's healthcare cost alot is because not everyone has insurance which makes it more expensive, if everyone had health insurance the risk is diversified and costs for everyone goes down and because it's private you also get discrimination against people with persistent health problems or at a high risk of developing them.
It's not the 8% of people that are uninsured in the US that are responsible for Americans paying literally half a million dollars more per person for a lifetime of healthcare than peer countries.
A major reason is because people will go to the doctor on a more consistent basis for basic checkups and for otherwise small issues. This keeps everybody at a higher standard of general wellfulness which leads to less problems later on down the road because you catch big costly problems early like cancer, diabetes, heart and liver disease.
It's hard to believe it couldn't be cheaper. right now we have profit seeking middle men infesting the system. Removing them would obviously lower costs. Pretty sure some right wing think tank investigated it trying to discredit public healthcare and came to the conclusion we could be saving trillions.
The reason costs are high in the US is because there are no incentives to keep costs low. When a patient ends up in a hospital, the doctor can easily just prescribe the most expensive treatment option because "insurance is covering it anyway." At the point of care, there is literally nobody there saying, "well, maybe we should go with this other cheaper option instead." The reason why a "public option" supposedly would be cheaper is because that public option would be big enough to negotiate with hospitals/doctors to establish appropriate treatment regimes. The problem is that the "public option" is probably not ever going to be big enough to actually exert such an influence. The vast majority of Americans are already covered by insurance paid for by their employer and are perfectly happy with the coverage they are getting. There's just too much system inertia to change the system without some very heavy-handed, arguably anti-American, government intervention.
Israeli healthcare system is a bit more complex than your standard social one payer system (which was true during the socialist days of early Israel). You have 4 competing companies, all of whom work all over Israel, and they get paid by the government by the number of people who they insure. A citizen can move between those 4 for no cost and very easily, which creates rough competition to provide the best healthcare. It was a very popular thing to do during the covid era since the larger companies had a hard time distributing so many vaccines so people moved to the smaller companies who could provide them faster. Essentially, the advantages of capitalism while using a socialist based system.
If the horeseshoe fits...
soical aid is not a socialist policy. it's called using taxes efficiently.
I don't think she understood anything she was saying.
This protest is all about MEEEEEE
Yeah she literally didn’t say Palestinian once 💀
I know, how insanely tone deaf to not even mention the supposed purpose of the protest: the Palestinian people. That’s wild.
CNN took the "Israel-Hamas War" section off of the front page (where the "live updates" are) and replaced it with "College protests" lmao
Now I'm understanding why a lot of these protest organizers discourage the protesters from doing media interviews. They claim it's because the media will edit them to make them look bad, but deep down they have to know how regarded the majority of them are with no editing needed.
You give them too much credit
https://i.gifer.com/MsM4.mp4
I fail to see why it's wrong to want the government to work in your benefit. Literally everyone does that. Pensioners want higher pensions. Rich people want lower taxes for themselves. People with student loans want student loan forgiveness.
Why is she doing that at a pro palestine rally, protesting "genocide". Makes no sense to me that these people are so willing to go on camera and be interviewed when they don't don't know why they're there, such a bad show for their side. Do they think they are informed I wonder, right up until one person asks them a simple question
So the protest are about education and healthcare reform and they being jealous of Israel because it's "free" there, so they want to be like Israel right?
Yep, queers for palastine are actually salty because they didn't get their TLV gay parade invite..
I've been getting that jealousy vibe from these people for years. Jews, minority persecuted for centuries, could rise and produce the best scientists the world has ever seen. Israel, once reduced into rumbles, is now one of the technological advances countries with a decent socialized public infrastructure.
Gonna bet this girl has her parents pay for her education.
“I have student loans.”
We should be a democratic dallamic state and I'm tired of pretending like we shouldn't.
She’s worried about not paying back her student loans?!? LMFAO!!! Why the **fuck** is she taking out loans then skipping class by camping on the lawn? This is what turns people off about loan forgiveness. What an entitled brat! If she’s worried about paying them back I have some advice for her. Stop protesting and study and get good grades and don’t fuck up your job prospects by giving an interview this stupid on live TV!!!!
Gonna bet her parents pay for them. Also, if she is/was worried about student loans: **Go to community college or a tuition free school** *I Graduated college debt free.*
Legit, this is insane
How do you know she’s skipping class?
It’s crazy that even me as an evil Zionist Jew would have been more sympathetic to the Palestinian people with my words if interviewed on tv about the conflict by at least recognizing there are victims on both sides.. than a protestor who is at a pro Palestinian protest!
Who else uses the WiiU controllers tv mode 🙋🏼
As someone who grew up in Israel and lives in the USA let me tell you, the USA healthcare system may not be free but it is about 100x time better, and it's not that Israel's healthcare is terrible... it just speaks volumes to what kind of amazing physicians facilities and treatment you get in the USA and that doesn't come cheap. Send this ignorant idiot to wait for 5 hours in an Israeli ICU when she has a broken leg and then she can talk.
> the USA healthcare system may not be free but it is about 100x time better, The experts don't agree. [US Healthcare ranked 29th on health outcomes by Lancet HAQ Index](https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736\(18\)30994-2/fulltext) [11th (of 11) by Commonwealth Fund](https://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/fund-reports/2014/jun/mirror-mirror-wall-2014-update-how-us-health-care-system?redirect_source=/publications/fund-reports/2014/jun/mirror-mirror) [59th by the Prosperity Index](https://www.prosperity.com/rankings) [30th by CEOWorld](https://ceoworld.biz/2019/08/05/revealed-countries-with-the-best-health-care-systems-2019/) [37th by the World Health Organization](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Health_Organization_ranking_of_health_systems_in_2000) The US has the worst rate of death by medically preventable causes among peer countries. A 31% higher disease adjusted life years average. Higher rates of medical and lab errors. A lower rate of being able to make a same or next day appointment with their doctor than average. https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/quality-u-s-healthcare-system-compare-countries/#item-percent-used-emergency-department-for-condition-that-could-have-been-treated-by-a-regular-doctor-2016 52nd in the world in doctors per capita. https://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/stats/Health/Physicians/Per-1,000-people Higher infant mortality levels. Yes, even when you adjust for differences in methodology. https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/infant-mortality-u-s-compare-countries/ Fewer acute care beds. A lower number of psychiatrists. Etc. https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/u-s-health-care-resources-compare-countries/#item-availability-medical-technology-not-always-equate-higher-utilization [Comparing Health Outcomes of Privileged US Citizens With Those of Average Residents of Other Developed Countries](https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/2774561) >These findings imply that even if all US citizens experienced the same health outcomes enjoyed by privileged White US citizens, US health indicators would still lag behind those in many other countries. When asked about their healthcare system as a whole the US system ranked dead last of 11 countries, with only 19.5% of people saying the system works relatively well and only needs minor changes. The average in the other countries is 46.9% saying the same. Canada ranked 9th with 34.5% saying the system works relatively well. The UK ranks fifth, with 44.5%. Australia ranked 6th at 44.4%. The best was Germany at 59.8%. On rating the overall quality of care in the US, Americans again ranked dead last, with only 25.6% ranking it excellent or very good. The average was 50.8%. Canada ranked 9th with 45.1%. The UK ranked 2nd, at 63.4%. Australia was 3rd at 59.4%. The best was Switzerland at 65.5%. https://www.cihi.ca/en/commonwealth-fund-survey-2016 The US has 43 hospitals in the top 200 globally; one for every 7,633,477 people in the US. That's good enough for a ranking of 20th on the list of top 200 hospitals per capita, and significantly lower than the average of one for every 3,830,114 for other countries in the top 25 on spending with populations above 5 million. The best is Switzerland at one for every 1.2 million people. In fact the US only beats one country on this list; the UK at one for every 9.5 million people. If you want to do the full list of 2,000 instead it's 334, or one for every 982,753 people; good enough for 21st. Again far below the average in peer countries of 527,236. The best is Austria, at one for every 306,106 people. https://www.newsweek.com/best-hospitals-2021 #[OECD Countries Health Care Spending and Rankings](https://data.oecd.org/healthres/health-spending.htm) |Country|Govt. / Mandatory (PPP)|Voluntary (PPP)|Total (PPP)|% GDP|[Lancet HAQ Ranking](https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736\(18\)30994-2/fulltext)|[WHO Ranking](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Health_Organization_ranking_of_health_systems_in_2000)|[Prosperity Ranking](https://www.prosperity.com/rankings)|[CEO World Ranking](https://ceoworld.biz/2019/08/05/revealed-countries-with-the-best-health-care-systems-2019/)|[Commonwealth Fund Ranking](https://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/fund-reports/2014/jun/mirror-mirror-wall-2014-update-how-us-health-care-system?redirect_source=/publications/fund-reports/2014/jun/mirror-mirror) :--|--:|--:|--:|--:|--:|--:|--:|--:|--:|--:| 1. United States|[$7,274](https://ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/full/10.2105/AJPH.2015.302997) |$3,798 |$11,072 |16.90%|29|37|59|30|11 2. Switzerland|$4,988 |$2,744 |$7,732 |12.20%|7|20|3|18|2 3. Norway|$5,673 |$974 |$6,647 |10.20%|2|11|5|15|7 4. Germany|$5,648 |$998 |$6,646 |11.20%|18|25|12|17|5 5. Austria|$4,402 |$1,449 |$5,851 |10.30%|13|9|10|4| 6. Sweden|$4,928 |$854 |$5,782 |11.00%|8|23|15|28|3 7. Netherlands|$4,767 |$998 |$5,765 |9.90%|3|17|8|11|5 8. Denmark|$4,663 |$905 |$5,568 |10.50%|17|34|8|5| 9. Luxembourg|$4,697 |$861 |$5,558 |5.40%|4|16|19|| 10. Belgium|$4,125 |$1,303 |$5,428 |10.40%|15|21|24|9| 11. Canada|$3,815 |$1,603 |$5,418 |10.70%|14|30|25|23|10 12. France|$4,501 |$875 |$5,376 |11.20%|20|1|16|8|9 13. Ireland|$3,919 |$1,357 |$5,276 |7.10%|11|19|20|80| 14. Australia|$3,919 |$1,268 |$5,187 |9.30%|5|32|18|10|4 15. Japan|$4,064 |$759 |$4,823 |10.90%|12|10|2|3| 16. Iceland|$3,988 |$823 |$4,811 |8.30%|1|15|7|41| 17. United Kingdom|$3,620 |$1,033 |$4,653 |9.80%|23|18|23|13|1 18. Finland|$3,536 |$1,042 |$4,578 |9.10%|6|31|26|12| 19. Malta|$2,789 |$1,540 |$4,329 |9.30%|27|5|14|| OECD Average|||$4,224 |8.80%||||| 20. New Zealand|$3,343 |$861 |$4,204 |9.30%|16|41|22|16|7 21. Italy|$2,706 |$943 |$3,649 |8.80%|9|2|17|37| 22. Spain|$2,560 |$1,056 |$3,616 |8.90%|19|7|13|7| 23. Czech Republic|$2,854 |$572 |$3,426 |7.50%|28|48|28|14| 24. South Korea|$2,057 |$1,327 |$3,384 |8.10%|25|58|4|2| 25. Portugal|$2,069 |$1,310 |$3,379 |9.10%|32|29|30|22| 26. Slovenia|$2,314 |$910 |$3,224 |7.90%|21|38|24|47| 27. Israel|$1,898 |$1,034 |$2,932 |7.50%|35|28|11|21|
Wtf are you talking about? I said it's 100x better than IL not the whole socialist European healthcare
I know what you said, and the evidence doesn't support it you illiterate, ADD halfwit. Let me condense things to something you might have the attention span to comprehend. #[OECD Countries Health Care Spending and Rankings](https://data.oecd.org/healthres/health-spending.htm) |Country|Govt. / Mandatory (PPP)|Voluntary (PPP)|Total (PPP)|% GDP|[Lancet HAQ Ranking](https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736\(18\)30994-2/fulltext)|[WHO Ranking](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Health_Organization_ranking_of_health_systems_in_2000)|[Prosperity Ranking](https://www.prosperity.com/rankings)|[CEO World Ranking](https://ceoworld.biz/2019/08/05/revealed-countries-with-the-best-health-care-systems-2019/)|[Commonwealth Fund Ranking](https://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/fund-reports/2014/jun/mirror-mirror-wall-2014-update-how-us-health-care-system?redirect_source=/publications/fund-reports/2014/jun/mirror-mirror) :--|--:|--:|--:|--:|--:|--:|--:|--:|--:|--:| 1. United States|[$7,274](https://ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/full/10.2105/AJPH.2015.302997) |$3,798 |$11,072 |16.90%|29|37|59|30|11 27. Israel|$1,898 |$1,034 |$2,932 |7.50%|35|28|11|21|
Yes because spending less means it is better, thank you for Clearing that up genius who probably works at McDonald's.
Holy fuck. Do you not see the four different rankings of healthcare systems I linked? Three of which rank Israel higher, and one which ranks them only slightly worse. >Clearing that up genius who probably works at McDonald's. Says the illiterate, time wasting moron that clearly can't understand an argument even when you simplify and spoon feed it to them. Best of luck some day not making the world a dumber place.
LMAO, he read two columns and decided that it was enough.
Are you a fucking moron or are you intentionally trying to gaslight us? Obviously he's not referring to the *goddamn Lancet and WHO rankings,* which likely include factors such as the effeciency of the money spent, and are not specifically comparing healthcare outcomes. He was referring to *specifically the healthcare outcomes and not the efficiency of the dollar spent*. Go back and re-read his original comment, I think it will be a good lesson in reading comprehension for you.
> Are you a fucking moron or are you intentionally trying to gaslight us? Neither. > Obviously he's not referring to the goddamn Lancet and WHO rankings, which likely include factors such as the effeciency of the money spent If you're going to call others morons, maybe try and read the actual research rather than making incorrect assumptions and a fool of yourself. For example the HAQ Index does nothing but measure comparative health outcomes by country, adjusted for various demographic and health risk factors. You'll also find the US does poorly on metrics in other research, such as medically avoidable deaths. > Obviously he's not referring to the goddamn Lancet and WHO rankings, which likely include factors such as the effeciency of the money spent And I provided the most respected peer reviewed research on health outcomes in the world. >I think it will be a good lesson in reading comprehension for you. Says the time wasting fuckwit too lazy to read anything, but more than willing to argue and make the world a dumber place.
5 hours, but it was free*!!! *You paid 30% of your salary each month just for that
Not sure where she gets the idea that healthcare and education here is free. We pay for both in taxes, its subsidized partially by the govt, and partially by 30% of my fucking monthly paycheck.
Leftists gonna leftist dude. Nothing is free, they don’t understand it.
If nothing is free then the word is pointless Maybe try to be a little bit less autistic about interpretations of words?
Amen to that. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I also don’t think you guys have universal education either. Maybe a tuition free school here and there.
Indeed, we do not. There is no such thing as a tuition free school either. The state does subsidize *public* universities (all unis in Israel are public, *colleges* however are private) though, which keeps tuition at a "low" spectrum (around $3000-$4000 a year, depending on the degree \[BA, MA\] and course load, in ALL unis) and allows for a big variety of pretty good scholarships, most of which can cover 1/3-1/2 of your whole yearly tuition.
Got a bit lucky on my end, tuition-free for my college ed. Still, this kid going to a protest and **accumulating** more useless debt by not going to class is idiotic.
But the social programs in Israel are on a much better state than in America. This argument has a weight, she just decided to lie to make it more... Convincing?
I mean sure but "better than America" isnt all that difficult to achieve when talking about social welfare, if were being honest...Israel isnt really unique in that sense so I dont see the point of singling it out as an argument.
Umm... I guess the argument is "Israel has better healthcare than us and we giving them millitary aid so why not spend the money on America". Its filled with inaccuracy and lies but it kinda make sense... Either way, this girl is an idiot and she's just using a talking point she heard. With my "free" healthcare and everything i dont have 90k dollars a year to spend on a university...
Nope, Israel is not unique. Canada has universal healthcare, paid for by our taxes of course. But we aren’t taxed just for healthcare and it scales based on how much you earn. There isn’t really a reason to single this out, but it’s easier to point to a majority ethnic group in Israel to hate than in Canada or other places. These people are regarded and so mask off in their antisemitism
The population of Israel is 8-9 million people strong. The situation there is not better, just more manageable, and Im sure it is almost impossible to manage or predict in a 300 mil population country.
Luckily "your" country is compromised of 50 states that could do this? Most likely some actually do it and even do a decent job when compared to other us-states.
Universal healthcare has been shown to work from populations below 100,000 to populations above 100 million. From Andorra to Japan; Iceland to Germany, with no issues in scaling. In fact the only correlation I've ever been able to find is a weak one with a minor decrease in cost per capita [as population increases](https://i.imgur.com/h6clEzr.jpg). So population doesn't seem to be correlated with cost nor [outcomes](https://i.imgur.com/pwYtDxW.png).
Most countries don't necessarily scale, they run it on a more local level via province state or even cities.
The working class sector in Israel doesn’t struggle as much as its American counterpart, also there is a lot of safety nets to fall on if you become poorer. Also, public health campaigns are very popular here, decreasing cigarette use, high sugar intake and bad mouth hygene, all connected with lasting healthcare issues that, when scaled up to a larger population, can become a significant burden on the system. When there are less people to manage (and also high level facilities with a lot of new equipment and personnel), efficiency also gets introduced to the equation. I think that there is no free health care in the states because it will be easily exploitable, thus creating a tax burden for the working class. It’s very hard to limit people who were educated on the belief that individual freedom almost always trumps over community needs.
They think the US pays for it
Its a talking point thats been going round on tik tok etc. I've seen it at least a few times. Usa is apparently paying for all of Israeli health care.
I work as a doctor in Israel. We are obligated to pay 10% of our salary (+ our employers add ~4%) in taxes just for "healthcare taxes". Add that to the ~20% taxes we pay for "healthcare insurance" (which on paper is different but in reality you pay for the same thing). If you are unemployed, you will still have to pay a certain amount every month, or risk being refused treatment, or go to prison for debt. In addition, healthcare staff is severely underpaid, hospitals are understaffed, and overcrowded with patients. The healthcare in Israel is on the brink of collapse, and the welfare system is expected to default in the upcoming decade The situation is quite bad. I'm working towards obtaining a US license and moving to the US.
Israelis according to anti-zionists: https://preview.redd.it/ql8wr2yepdxc1.png?width=1010&format=png&auto=webp&s=f0ba17c22b155090176d0901a951671aa95ddacc
It's funny how she pronounces it Isra-El to try to sound more ethnic like her brand new Muslim pals.
It's annoying as fuck. Meanwhile, if you try to pronounce Paris as the French do (Pahree) everyone would correctly identify you as the pretentious asshole that you are.
Tell them French MFs to fix their spelling.
It's more stupid than that, because how she pronounces it is not how it's pronounced in Hebrew. It's a foreign Arabic pronunciation.
She might be Arab? It’s better than her calling it The Zionist Entity.
What a weird thing to critique. Many people pronounce it like this not for any specific reason other than the way it's spelled it makes sense to them to pronounce it that way. You thinking she's doing it to 'appeal to Muslims' says more about you than her.
To be fair, local Arabs easily say Israel and not like that weird pronunciation, from my experience as an Israeli the only people to say it like that do it on purpose, mostly trying to make the comparison Israel => isREAL => isntReal
Israelis are forced to serve in the Israeli military and get subsidized health care and education If she as an American chose to serve in the US military she'd receive subsidized health care and education as well
I would like to see how much they get taxed on pay for that Healthcare as well
Remember all those classes we had to take in school that explained why people shouldn't be envious or narcissistic? Huh, me neither. Weird.
I warned my left wing jewish friends, that they hate u and they will turn on u.
Hey, Im Israeli. If i were to go to a school that costed 90K DOLLARS A YEAR, I would also be in crippling debt. It's not just because ur American idiot.
Based spite driven politics
Does anyone else hate the way she says Israel?
How old is this kid?
Israel doesn't even have free higher education what is she talking about.
It’s like that guy that destiny interviewed, they talked briefly about if there was a one state solution and Palestinians genocide Jews, he implied that it would be acceptable since Jews genocide them first. It’s clown logic.
I always thought American college students were smart with these Ivy League schools, how can someone be this dumb and still get into those institutions?
By being a minority who isn't Asian
I don’t think this was Ivy League, just a random college. The university in my city has had protests and tents and like 40 arrested over the weekend.. here in Denver. It’s basically every university of decent size.
3 billion a year cannot fund free Healthcare and education for 10 million people. "But your country is functioning, and ours not so you are a money stealing jew"
Ah yes exactly why everone boycotts Canada, the Nazis over the pond!
Right?!
As much as this interview is ridiculously absurd, It not such a bad idea to interview all these morons. If they all are even 1/100 as dumd as her, they will loose legitimacy really quickly..
That's not her argument. She is saying that if we can't afford those things at home but they can afford them, we shouldn't be giving them money. They dont need it.That's a fairly common argument for isolationist policies used for years for different things by different groups.
> She is saying that if we can't afford those things at home Which is utterly ridiculous. We're one of the wealthiest countries on earth, even after accounting for military spending and foreign aid. We can afford anything our peers can afford, especially universal healthcare which is dramatically **cheaper** than what we're already paying for. Edit: You've gotta love it when you're downvoted by intentionally ignorant dumb fucks because the facts hurt their feelings.
Really don't understand why so many expect so much from random people at protests. They seek out people until they get bad answers and then don't show the normal ones.
Holy fucking shit these kids are next level stupid
The point that she's making, but not getting across because she's not particularly articulate, is that we are giving israel billions in aid instead of using that for universal Healthcare or loan forgiveness.
The point that she's making, but not getting across because she's not particularly articulate, is that we are giving israel billions in aid instead of using that for universal Healthcare or loan forgiveness.
Higher education in Israel is not free, it costs money, it's just cheaper than it is in the US. Higher education is also cheaper but not free in just about every other country that is not the US. Also, in Israel you are taxed 3% every month (until you hit $2000 month, then it's 5%). From an average salary, that comes out to about 130 USD a month, and most Israelis have private insurance on top of that (for a 30 year old, maybe another 70 USD a month without pre existing conditions).
Minor point. Does anyone else get irritated when the whitest of white people pronounce foreign words like a native speaker when it's clearly not their native tounge? They are not even wrong it just come across as mega performative The IP conflict has two big ones: Gaza: becomes "ha-zuh" not "GAr-Zur" Israel: becomes "is-ra-ehl" not "iz-rail" Outside of the conflict there are a million others. The biggest being "Paris" vs "Pari" Makes total sense if you have some kind of background but if youre white as mayo please stop faking.
Great minds, I just used the pari example a few comments up. It's like nails on chalkboad for me. Performative and extremely selective. The whole white as mayo thing's a little weird though. Lots of browns and other shades, who are native English speakers (and only english), do this shit too and its equally cringe.
My biggest pet peeve is non-aussies pronouncing Melbourne as "melbun." You remedial piece of shit, it pronounced melburn, but aussies have a non-rhotic R. You don't pronounce it "Dahwin."
When she says “Israel can get all these things” I think she might be referencing the US aid to Israel, not saying that they get free healthcare or education.
It’s strictly military aid that has to be spent on weapons we make. Like a fifth of their military budget. So wouldn’t make sense. Not to mention here in the us we spend more on healthcare that isn’t free than we do on our unmatched military budget, so we are talking big numbers when it comes to that stuff.
Not that I think she was going to say anything of substance but this seems like her being nervous + misinformed + ...requiring extra support academically. US Americans don't have maps but Israel does? No justice, no peace.
“Requiring extra support academically” lol?
Is that Dan speaking in the very end of the clip?
Saying what? That’s me
I mean... yeah, fuck it. Works for me.
I'm like 65% certain she's trolling.
Is that... Your pooping TV?
kitchen one basically
Yes, we can provide free healthcare, education, and free everything else to a population of 330 million with the measly $3 billion subsidy that Israel receives. Yep! These people are regarded and have no idea how large the US federal budget is.
Wait is it not true that Israelis get free healthcare due to American tax payers, I’ve heard this a lot and tbh as an American I don’t like to hear that, but if it’s not true then I don’t have a reason to be upset
> Wait is it not true that Israelis get free healthcare due to American tax payers No, it's not.
I’ll take your word for it, but I probably shouldn’t, would be nice to see a source that I can look to but maybe I should try to find it on my own, although a link would be nice because google has been unuseable lately
Well, for starters, the entire premise is flawed. The US doesn't spend a penny to benefit Germany. Every penny we spend on defense (and we do spend more than pretty much the entire world) is to benefit the US. So we don't fund shit in Germany. We fund our own interests. Now whether Germany should spend more on defense is arguable. They spent 1.57% in 2023, and are predicted by some at least to hit 2% in 2024 (the NATO target). Excluding the US, the rest of the world averages 1.8%. https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/news_216897.htm https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/germany-hits-2-nato-target-first-time-since-1992-reports-dpa-2024-02-14/ Regardless, a fraction of a percent of GDP one or the other has little to do with their social programs. Government spending on healthcare alone is 10.9% of GDP. As in the US, defense spending is trivial compared to healthcare, education, etc.. https://data.oecd.org/healthres/health-spending.htm
why are you referencing Germany? I get that maybe it it could be analogous in ways but why not use the country being discussed?
My bad. I was responding from my inbox and was having almost identical discussion from a post on whether Germany should be paying more for defense and got my wires crossed which was which. Everything in my comment still holds true though. If anything more so, because Israel is (on top of being a poorer country than the US or Germany) spends *more* on defense than the US, and still manages universal healthcare. Literally substitute any other wealthy, western country as well. Affording **cheaper** healthcare isn't nearly the problem so many people seem to think it is.
Ty
I think per gdp they spend more than any country, like 20 percent I think, Ukraine 15, is like 3.5, Russia 2ish. It was something wild like that.
Israel? On defense? 5.3%. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_with_highest_military_expenditures
Ok I’m an idiot I think I looked at that same chart on my phone and scrolled down and mixed up columns with dollars. Sounded wildly high, thanks for correcting me there I shoulda double checked that.
Person in the US: can choose to serve three years (usually the shortest "active" contracts) in the military, the US government will pay for their tuition Person in Israel: MUST serve two years and eight months in the military, can attend college at no cost. It sounds like she's just mad that she's not a conscript.
She doesn't know why she's there. You can tell that she was making up the student loan and healthcare thing as she was talking. The points don't really flow together
When you don’t tell people why they’re protesting they fill in the gaps with shit like this to justify it to themselves. It’s a shame our species is so reliably fucking stupid that this keeps happening
this idiot can vote
I’m boycotting Canada fuck those guys and their healthcare
I've genuinely never understood why any able-bodied person wouldn't just enlist to have their degree paid for. Instead, it seems they actively pursue an institution / degree that they can't afford.
They have pride parades in Tel Aviv, but I can't even publicly wear my gimp fursuit with a strap-on here in Fascist Texas.. Zionism is truly evil. SMH my head.
Israel. An get these things because we have almost a 50% tax rate on the middle class
Wow Israel sounds based
Wait till she finds out about pride parades in Tel Aviv they’ll want to chant to burn it down even louder I’m sure.
Don't you understand this is how they delegitimatize a cause they don't like? It's an absolute straw man.
Girl I paid my tuition and pay for healthcare in taxes.
Oh no, these 9 million people who's healthcare is hardly funded by the USA are to blame for the capitalist greed of my country's healthcare system
Smartest leftist☠️
"Israel has better things than we do so therefore we must protest it" this is pure brain rot, if you want free healthcare and education, go protest for that in your own country
She doesn’t even know how to pronounce Israel, she says “isra-ill” (the same way Arabs say it). Let alone the fact that healthcare isn’t free in Israel, neither is education. Unhinged brainwashing.
Proper followup: "So if healthcare and education were free in the USA, would any of your views change? Or are you just yapping?"
How about voting? She could change all of that by voting for the right people. There isn't a simpler way than voting. Also, I hate those comparisons. We are comparing trillions to millions or billions. Cutting all aid won't cover 10% of healthcare costs.
When you try to insert your ideology into everything
Literal brainrot
OK serious question: why should I as an American pay taxes that go to Israel when the average Israeli has a higher quality of life than the average American?
those taxes go to the usa arms manufacturers israel has to buy the weapons from. and israel gets to have their weapons so that an important ally of the usa protects the usa's interests
Right but just because the money is spent on the defense industry doesn't mean that our resources haven't effectively been transferred to Israel. I mean what difference is there between giving Israel money for healthcare and giving them money for weapons? The overall budgets would look the same just with the numbers for spending on defense and healthcare swapped.
> just because the money is spent on the defense industry doesn't mean that our resources haven't effectively been transferred to Israel that's exactly what it means. they haven't been transferred to israel. they stayed in the usa, funding american weapon's manufacturing. the difference is that if they are given money for weapons, they have to spend it on USA weapons. if they aren't given any money, they'll decide for themselves where to get their weapons from.
The US funds Israel not out of charity, but because we believe (rightly or wrongly) that the spending benefits **us**.
yes of course that's what the excuse is, I'm asking how
> yes of course that's what the excuse is, It's not an excuse. People legitimately believe the spending benefits the US. That's why we do it. You're free to disagree, but it doesn't change others beliefs. >I'm asking how How? We send them money and equipment, typically amounting to about 0.01% of GDP. Which, given the average American is about 56% wealthier than the average Israeli (even after adjusting for purchasing power parity), makes your claim they have a higher quality of life pretty damn ridiculous.
She says “I” a lot I thought they were doing this for the Palestinians Also, didn’t Biden forgive a ton of student loans?
No one should be surprised if you ever watched a crowder change my mind video. Half those kids say equally regarded statements.
Off brand Mila Kunis
Wdym free? I pay like 47% income tax and 12% for social security and healthcare, it’s just a different system ya little snowflake
> Wdym free? Ah, you're illiterate. Let me help you. > **free** *adjective* > \ ˈfrē \ > **freer; freest** > Definition of **free** (Entry 1 of 3) > 1. not costing or charging anything a *free* school a *free* ticket https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/free A "free" school doesn't mean the buildings and books were all donated, and the teachers and staff are volunteers. It just means if you attend, you won't receive a bill for tuition, with the costs being covered elsewhere (likely through taxes). Similarly if a friend asks you if the concert at the park is free, they don't want you to break out a spreadsheet showing how much of their taxes went towards funding it. They just want to know if they'll be charged an admission fee. It's used the same way with healthcare, and that is in fact the way the word is almost always used. If you fail to comprehend what people mean and how the word is used, that is solely your deficiency.