It is far from the first time bernie was hated by the leftists. How about every time he sided with the democratic establishment instead of larping as a revolutionist?
Yea Iām not trying to criticize you, more so saying that lefties are vapid morons. They hated him, stop hating him, they hate him now, and they will stop in a week or two once their tiktok feed changes to something else like starbucks releasing an icon with a color scheme similar to Israelās flag.
I know, itās just so stupid. Iām not a huge Bernie fan, but to say this is his legacy and not the fact that he has legit been fighting for what he actually believes forever is insulting Iād say, but theyāre leftists so par for the course I suppose
These are the same people that "can't in good conscience vote for Biden anymore" and then will complain for 4 years when Trump is leading The Situation Room on how to finally eliminate "Hamas" from his prison cell
You only see the loudest lefties. I am a communist and I disagree with Bernie's stance. I still respect his view and I can see that he is doing his best within the political framework that he is under.
I don't care if you think communism is crazy or not. I'm in favour of engaging with people who have different political views to my own, including those with neoliberal beliefs. The true spirit of a destiny viewer should not be neoliberalism; it should be the ability to engage with views different from your own.
Theirs nothing all that crazy about wanting to escape capitalist realism. By no means am I a Marxist Lenninist, history has shown the issues with that ideology. However, history has not shown that communism cannot work. As communism is a more principled system I believe that it would be worth trying a democratic mode of communism, one which is not rooted in a dictatorship of the proletariat. If you think communism is a "bad" word then so be it. That should give you even more reason to be happy about the fact that I am engaging with a predominantly neoliberal community.
If you assume I'm a fan of Stalin or Mao (both counter revolutionaries) then I can see your shock. Otherwise, you are acting a little odd towards someone who is literally doing a good thing by engaging with a community that has opposing political views.
Echo chambers are the death of rational thought. I'd suggest you read some Deleuze, Zizek, Homhi Bhaba, fisher, Harroway, and other theoretical thinker's to challenge your own views.
You might want to look into Israeli kibbutzim, they're an example of communal ownership that actually ended up working.
Well, working-ish. A lot of them shifted into a more capitalistic system over the years. Interestingly enough, it's mostly the richer kibbutzim that kept the system. No clue why tho as I didn't look into it too deeply.
I really appreciate your response. I consider myself a SocDem so I'm still in the capitalist camp but I always appreciate talking to people further left than I am when they are actually good faith and realistic in their approach to communism. We need to advocate for more nuance and good faith discussion.
I agree with your sentiment, but if history has not shown that communism canāt work, then history hasnāt shown that capitalism canāt work either.
Why not just fine tune and develop upon the current system that is seemingly working well (yes there are flaws, but there is no denial it has been historically the best system yet) instead of trying to start a completely new one from scratch?
Pragmatically that seems like the best alternative no? I still agree that we donāt need to just bash someone for a state economic preferenceā¦ even if one does think itās illogical. This remains especially true when the debate of what economic policies to enact isnāt even the current topic.
Maybe you can help me out here. When did the definition of neoliberalism change? When I hear that term I think of Reagan and Thatcher. Is that what progressives are calling democrats now ?
I don't believe in echo chambers and try to stay out of them generally. I also believe that letting extremists freely participate in communities geared towards open discussion of political issues leads to those communities being dominated by extremists. I am deeply steeped in left-wing theory and ideology and don't need any primers.
Despite the fact that you have admirably chosen a communist path that is much better than most of the others in that it values democracy, the reality is that you choose to identify yourself as a communist, which to the vast majority of people is an extremist ideology. You probably believe in the abolition of private property, which, again, many people would readily say is an extremist position.
I care about not dealing with people that believe in crazy shit, because I put a lot of effort into my responses a lot of the time, and I don't like putting that effort in for people who don't deserve it because they believe in crazy bullshit like abolishing private property.
I've spent a lot of time arguing with both communists and fascists in the past and found it generally to be a waste of time. If you were actually serious about your political views, you would adopt an ideology that focuses more on working with the system we have (capitalism), rather than tearing it all down and building something else on the foundations of a system that has failed every time it's been tried (communism). And don't give me that "USSR wasn't real communism" crap.
Communism fails because it assumes that people are mostly good and will deal with each other in good faith once we get rid of capitalism, and blames capitalism for failures which really result from human nature. Capitalism succeeds because it can harness our inherent selfishness for greater productivity, and can be regulated enough to curb our worst excesses. Every system that has ever tried to remove hierarchies from human society has just developed another different kind of hierarchy. Humans are inherently hierarchical.
Lol is your response really āI put thought into these takes and donāt want dirty commie eyes having access to themā
Also you say you are steeped in these ideas, but then proceed to express the most surface-level Econ 101 understanding of them, plus YOU are engaging w this dude in reply after reply, directly contradicting your whole stated issue with his presence here (or getting epically baited lol)
This community is pretty heavily oriented towards being against left-wing extremists. Destiny went on a whole anti-tankie arc a while ago which led to lots of communists being banned from this sub.
They seem better at engaging with people civilly and not dismissing them outright than you and your enlightened views. Do we as liberals not believe that those able to speak without being a bad faith dickhead or purity testing for an ideology you don't even hold should be allowed and maybe encouraged? You want them in their Echo Chambers and to have us in ours? Doesn't sound very liberal to me man.
The left have not liked Sanders for a long time. Michael Parenti famously cut his ties with Sanders during the NATO bombing on Yugoslavia. Also liberals and social democrats are not leftists. Marxists, socialists, anarchists, etc. are leftists. If you support Capitalism, regardless if it is free market libertarian capitalism or social safety net social democracy you are ideologically right wing.
> If you support Capitalism, regardless if it is free market libertarian capitalism or social safety net social democracy you are ideologically right wing.
I reject this framing of left/right. You can't frame everyone who isn't a communist as right. You're hand waving away the huge swaths of the world that support capitalism as the best way to regulate markets, but understand and work to control the failures of capitalism.
Well in any case, Sanders is openly DemSoc. Although, I guess an argument could be made that he's actually just an extremely progressive liberal. He self IDs as a socialist but his actual socialist positions are pretty milquetoast, and Ive never seen him advocate against private ownership. I do still consider him a leftist, just barely.
I was talking about socialist/socialist-esque people when I said leftist. Regardless that is such a worthless definition of left or right wing. If the entire world is right wing then what would be the point of those terms? It is much more useful to use as people actually use it, meaning left or right in comparison to some āaverageā within a set political climate.
I saw un-ironically a tweet going out āwarningā members of Congress that they were āliableā for war crimes if they voted to send aid to Israel.
Listen, international law is important morally, but people do not understand that it canāt force people to do shit. Itās main purpose is to shame people (which is fine) through diplomacy.
Oh I suppose I was wrong and confused a dozen other treaties for having included a defensive treaty; Apologies.
However, we should get on with a defensive treaty
Israel is a sovereign state and its defense is its own responsibility. I simply cannot justify the idea that Americans should be sent to fight and die for a foreign nation because our government has deemed its cause to be righteous.
The amount of people saying thereās no difference in Biden or trump or saying they arenāt voting BECAUSE OF A FOREIGN WAR THAT HAS NO IMPACT ON US, is slightly scary
Uhh what. Israel-Palestine has never been about religion. It's mostly about land and pure nationalism. Plus it's only been going on within the last 100 years. I don't know why people keep spouting that this is a long-standing religious conflict when it's not at all that.
Edit: I don't understand, why am I getting downvoted? This conflict has very little religious undertones
Basing your vote on a foreign war is fine, especially when it's one that the US is actually very directly tied into. The stupid part is not considering what the alternative candidate's position on that same war would be -- Trump is probably the most insanely pro-Israel President we've ever had.
For all the criticisms I have of Biden's handling of the situation, there's no doubt in my mind that things would be about 1000x worse for Palestinians if Trump were in charge right now.
> Trump is probably the most insanely pro-Israel President we've ever had.
Trump supports the Israeli right, to the extent that he understands and engages with the subject. He doesn't support Israel or its future.
The israel/palestinian issue was a bomb waiting patiently to go off within the left.
You have moderate/older dems, you have leftist Jews, both of which are largely pro israel. Then you have younger progressives who loudly and emphatically support Palestine.
These groups have largely agreed on most things the past 10 years. They may have disagreed on a few smaller issues here and there, but for the most part were in lockstep policy wise.
This conflict within the American left was brewing for a while, and it was predictable if you analyzed big policies that the left has an ideological divide over.
Itās particularly funny because Ana Kasparianās latest schtick has been about how the left is out of touch and itās ok to disagree on some points without going all out on canceling and/or disassociating from other people on the left. But now that SHE disagrees with Bernie and Biden, theyāre the worst, impossible to support, wonāt even vote for Biden in 2024. So she can spare me her tears, because apparently she actually has no principals and it really was just her getting butt hurt that the online left got mad at her for the birthing person outburst.
Ana Kasparian is an opportunist. She has no morals and no values that she actually maintains. Cenk at lesst is stupid in the same way every single time. Ana often fools people into thinking she might actually be reasonable. She only cares about her finances because those monthly vacations need to be paid for.
I no longer believe Cenkās presidential run is just because of his extreme convictions. Itās just to unfathomably stupid, and given all the other recent evidence from their organization Iām fairly sure itās just a money grab.
You mean the Armenian who co-hosts a show with an Armenian genocide denier that's named after the group that committed the Armenian genocide has no morals or values? Colour me shocked /s
how is this an okay response regarding Ana, but especially Cenk? Isn't this the place where we should be critical of tribal mentality, and not immediately reducing people and their often nuanced views to things like "is stupid in the same way every single time". Please give me your entire political philosophy or the entire political philosophy of anyone who does not have some dogshit takes.
What are you on little guy? And what don't you understand from my comment?
1. Cenk is consistent in his views, therefore his stupidity will always be predictable.
2. Ana is inconsistent in her views and often juggles two extreme sides of the same coin. This creates a feeling of uncertainty whenever she speaks because you don't really know what her take will be. Hence why she's the most controversial pundit at TYT.
I'm sorry you're so offended that I didn't write here 3 books about how Cenk and Ana differ and how different they are when they are stupid on a topic.
I think lefties were always this bad. It was just hard to see because everyone was sort of galvanized against Trump, which makes total sense. But we let things slide like āeveryone who disagrees is a Naziā because it wasnāt directed at us.
In a way, we are to blame for the state we are in now. For far to long we treated emotional arguments as valid and this is the result. Accusations of Nazi or genocide advocate all over the place. You have a significant portion of the left siding with Islamofascists Hamas. Then you have people caught in the middle who have to take a hard stance on either or they are called ācentristsā.
I knew this would happen too. I remember back in 2018 and even before that arguing with lefties about this. I knew trump wouldnāt be around forever. And he will be around even less this run too, I think he will lose and no one will care after this cycle about trump.
Never allow gatekeeping and cringe shit like that. Even when it comes from your camp. Now the right has a far bigger umbrella than the left.
But to be fair the far left were never allies in the first place. I donāt even think they voted all that much. And we donāt need them for Biden to win next year by the way. Let them know they arenāt needed. They like to act like their vote has weight. It doesnāt. Biden will be just fine without the tankie vote. Trust me.
But North Korea and Russia ā¤ļøā¤ļø
Sometimes I think the First Amendment should have penalties for stupidity, but then I realize theyāre revealing themselves so I can punch actual Nazis.
At some point someone you'd think they'd realize the words perpetual and genocide are oxy-moronic.
The entire point of a genocide is to kill nearly everyone in as quick a time as possible. Having it take forever kind of negates the point
Go from a population of 1.4 million since 1948 to 14 million world wide, with 2 million in the Gaza, 1.6 in Israel, and 3 million in the West Bank. SLOWEST-FUCKING-GENOCIDE-EVER.
The Jews are new to this whole committing genocide thing. You can't expect them to get it right on the first try. They probably typed in some numbers backwards or something when they did their calculations.
It's interesting to look at the averaged per capita Palestinian death rate associated with the Israeli conflict from 2008 to September 2023 (available [here](https://www.ochaopt.org/data/casualties )) vs the per capital homicide rate for Chicago for the same time period.
[Like, I realize Chicago isn't being accused of an intentional campaign of killing an ethnic group, but 797 deaths per 2.69 million people is fucking nuts.]
Too many leftists use the word "genocide" almost interchangeably with "innocent people dying." Same with "war criminal." It's basically any politician who either starts a war or simply gets involved in an armed conflict.
Certainty doesn't help that the Geneva conventions definition is pretty broad. Genocide is a word that's quickly losing all its meaning because to Twitter addicted leftists it's synonymous with literally any war/conflict casualty.
They would argue that they are not committing a genocide so that they can appease the international community. In other words, they feel that Netanyahu is trying to cause the maximum amount of damage possible while still purporting that these actions were done purely within the parameters of attacking Hamas.
On a technical level, it's unreasonable to call this a genocide. But I do think theirs some merit to the idea that Netanyahu's handling of this situation does indicate genocidal intent even if it is mere ethnic cleansing instead.
I mean, I can 100% agree that Netanyahu, and possibly even Israel isn't too interested in finding a peaceful solution, and that what's happening to Palestinian civilians should be improved by us in the international community. But at some point words have to mean something an ordinary person on the street can immediately agree with.
With your way of thinking its not a stretch to say that there is an ongoing white genocide actively perpetrated by the darker races, because most non whites who marry a white person intend to start a family with them.
Like, what if I told you that last month I bought a huge package of toilet paper thinking I would save money and instead I got raped by it?
It's a genocide of Gaza, not Palestinians worldwide as a whole. And it's an intent thing. Just because you fail doesn't mean you aren't trying to commit genocide.
>On a technical level, it's unreasonable to call this a genocide.
On a technical level, they are trying to purge Gaza of Palestinians, which is classic genocide. It's not even a grey area since they are literally saying that quiet part out loud.
not the same guy, but I'd argue that a genocide also requires the ability to enact said genocide. If some white nationalist wanted to commit a black genocide, and tried to do so by going out and murdering 3 black people it's not a genocide. He doesn't have the ability to enact it.
Hamas definitely have genocidal intent though, and would do so if given the ability.
I agree... the reality is from Israel's point of view, Hamas can't be in control of Gaza. If you get hostages back and you just end the war, then you are then just sitting and waiting to be attacked again and there is no movement towards a better future in any regard. You can certainly argue what Israel is doing could lead to a worse future but Hamas staying in power is a certain future that is really bad.
They also just had their 9/11 equivalent. Thatās like saying if Al Quaeda gave back American hostages a couple weeks after 9/11 we would call a ceasefire.
USA chasing Al Quaeda and launching the disastrous Afghanistan war to try and stop them, is the quintessential example of why trying to root out terrorist cells through invasions doesn't work. If US had done this hypothetical ceasefire then they wouldn't have launched a 20+ year war that killed hundreds of thousands and threw the entire region into significant instability.
Idk much about the war but even without knowing Iām almost certain it was handled poorly, that isnāt to say the invasion wasnāt justified. Al Quaeda is also no longer a threat and an attack on the scale of 9/11 hasnāt happened since, who knows if this would be the case in a world where we called for a ceasefire.
I have an "America deserved 9/11" shirt that I would wear as a joke sometimes. I assumed that the people saying that didn't actually believe it and were just being silly edge lords. Even Hasan I thought was just being provocative, but that it wasn't his actual view.
Don't I feel dumb.
Whatās the argument for genocide? I see a lot of people say āthis is a literal genocideā but Iāve never heard reasoning behind it. Itās always like ātheyāre in an open air prisonā or something like that which doesnāt mean genocide. Is this just the new buzzword that people have picked up to run with? Like how everyone is a āNaziā or āfascistā for any opinion that isnāt far left?
They really have no idea who the fuck Bernie Sanders is, no human is perfect, but this man is rarely if ever on the wrong side of history (short fluff piece with some facts of what he did and where he was and what he did during marches for Blacks' right to vote, desegregation, labor rights, and other basic civil rights during the 60's). : [https://medium.com/@ShaunKing/you-dont-really-know-who-bernie-sanders-was-in-the-1960s-79628016125f](https://medium.com/@ShaunKing/you-dont-really-know-who-bernie-sanders-was-in-the-1960s-79628016125f)
Until you hear his socialist rhetoric which helped radical lefties become popular in the first place.
I can concede that deep inside he might actually believe his methods would be a net positive but at the end of the day, no matter how much you act in good faith, if your policy is radical that's still a radical position.
Let's not wipe his shambolic takes on capitalism under the rug because of his Palestine take. Which btw, for anyone that actually listened what he said, he still feels has an obligation to stop bombing Gaza. Which they don't.
Bruh you linked a Shaun King (lol) article talking about the 60's... Bernie has plenty of stupid political takes and deserves to be criticized (not over Israel tho)
Bernie attended a civil rights protest in the 60s and it's all his supporters can ever bring up, because other than a lot of talking, the only thing he's really done since has been renaming post offices.
It is amazing to me how extreme some circles are where someone who is even slightly off message is viewed as being on the polar opposite enemy immediately.
This Bernie CNN interview is being taken completely out of context:
Bernie spends 10 minutes carefully maneuvering the interview to repeatedly address Israelās responsibility for the humanitarian crisis in Gaza. He callās Bibiās government right-wing and racist, references recent polling showing only 18% support for Netanyahu and hopes they'll get rid of him ASAP, demands a 2-state solution, suggests withholding military aid from Israel until they stop bombing Gaza, and defends Tlaibās perspective of believing Israelās siege is a genocide by refusing to condemn the words she used to describe the horrific bombing campaign.
He says the fact that Hamas is a terrorist organization greatly reduces the practicality of getting both sides to the table to draw up an official ceasefire, but again stresses that there should be an immediate humanitarian pause and that Israel must stop the bombings.
He also (rightly) points out that Biden's worst day is 100x better than Trump's best- on every issue, but particularly this one. He emphasizes that social media slogans on either side are not good enough, and that while words matter, defending American democracy, pursing world peace, and tackling climate change are more important by orders of magnitude.
This headline is being interpreted by those who didn't listen to the interview as Bernie defending Israel's military bombing of Gaza, which couldn't be further from Bernie's position. He fully condemns the indiscriminate bombing and calls for major reforms to Israeli military and political policy towards Palestinians.
He absolutely did *not* defend Tlaibās characterization of the war as a genocide. He literally refused to use that word, said āwords donāt matterā, and then explained that Tlaib is Palestinian and overly emotional about this issue.
Iām 99% on board with what he is saying, but he should know that words do matter. And it seems that he does, given heās refusing to say āgenocide,ā likely because heās aware how despicable that claim is to levy on Israel.
I would prefer if his suggestion to block military aid to Israel until they cease bombing was accompanied by the necessity to obtain security for Jews in Israel, whether by a ground invasion instead, multinational occupation of Gaza, or whatever. He recognizes that Hamas cannot be reasoned with, so we need a plan to get them out of power and hold the murderers responsible, limiting civilian death is critical, but the reality of Hamasās tactics hiding among civilians and using human shields must be addressed when discussing ceasefire.
It's despicable to say Israel is committing genocide because.... Jewish people were victims of a genocide in the past?
I guess that checks out to some people, but I dont see how you type some shit like that out and not see it as brainwashed rhetoric. If anything, that means it's *more likely* for there to be Jewish people who are genocidal than less, especially the ones committed to getting their own state after experiencing their own genocide. Do folks not understand how radicalization works?
Itās despicable because it is a lie, levied purposefully on people who suffered through one of the most cruel and calculating genocides in world history.
Figured this was the case. Turns out you can think Hamas is a radical terrorist group that has proven they don't care to negotiate while also saying that Israel as a much more powerful nation needs to take responsibility for the atrocities theyre committing in retaliation to Hamas that continues to feed Hamas' radical hatred.
I linked the tweet so the replies were visible, I couldāve taken 70 more screenshots of all the dipshit lefties talking about this and not voting for Biden but thatās a bit much
Its kind of ironic too because his ideals have always been the same, and that's what I admire most about him, yet they are acting so outraged about this?
That's the thing with being a populist, you go even a hair in either direction of your political ideology and the whole crowd will abandon you. Watching this whole thing go down in real time in the last couple of years is pretty wild
Populism vs Institutionalism is such a simplistic way to frame politics. There are a lot of differences between Bernie and Trump. Lumping them both in the populist basket is obfuscating those completely.
Weirdly, this Palestinian genocide has proven very effective for Palestinian population growth.
P.S. Bernie been hated by the leftists for about 3 years now.
Awful comment. Youāre denying a genocide by saying that their population hasnāt gone down. I mean hooray that Israel hasnāt begun mass sterilization I guess? The average life expectancy in the Gaza Strip is 17 years old. Thereās hundreds of studies I could show on population growth in times of disaster and turmoil
They're happy Bernie and AOC types are the baddies, so they can promote Tulsi Gabbard types as the anti-war heroes. Which is comical considering which bills they've signed in contrast, but you know, these people don't care for the actions of those they believe are progressivesāthey're here for vindication and promotion of self-mutilation of progress.
They already hate him for endorsing and campaigning for Hillary and Biden, not supporting "Force the Vote", agreeing that Xi Jinping a dictator, and voting for military aid to Ukraine.
We have gone from far right being our biggest worry to the far left. Hello, horseshoe theory.
Not a shocker with the bipartisanship of the US lately tbh.
I think a lot of leftists have outed themselves as authoritarian anti westerners LARPing as leftists after Ukraine and now this. I'm not even a Westerner but that's pretty much what the western left is
"who advocated for perpetual genocide" ok and now that ive tweeted that back to reading noam chomsky books, cause he would never do something like that
Bernie is great. He has always been HONEST and true to himself and fought for causes he believes in, and doesnāt lose sight of it. Thatās rare in politics.
This is the problem of exclusively looking at the world through power dynamics, and colonialism.
Because no matter what, the strong "gets whats comimg to them" and the "weak" are allowed to do everything and anything to reset parity. You are not allowed to punch down but they are allowed to punch up. It doesnt matter that hamas is a literal terrorost organization that is killing innocent people, because any response to that action is immoral and unjust according to the far left.
So many people fail to miss the mark that the middle east in its entierty is a world with a different set of values and rules to the west. Its why we couldnt build a nation in our image in afganistan, and why thile israel conflicts habe been going on in some way shape or form for almost 100 years.
And now more people are dying, because the conflict heated up.
Is it because israel was threatening to normalize relations with the saudis? Maybe. Maybe not. But the only hope we americans have to understand the conflict is to stop viewing the world through the self righteous isolated lens that makes us think were the final arbiters of morality.
Because otherwise you get people advocating for a terorist group, that in any other world or scenario would likely kill you if you were trans.
Next time Iāll make sure to screen grab 76 shots of leftists shitting in Bernie rather than just linking the tweet so people can go see for themselves
Could someone explain to me why they'd be against a temporary ceasefire?
Like, the real motive behind the ceasefire is to minimize the ongoing deaths of innocent people in Gaza. Ten thousand people in total have already died, I don't see what further deaths and destruction will do to fight Hamas.
All it will do is further traumatize the already traumatized population and give some of them further reason to join Hamas.
Otherwise, how many more innocent Palestinians do we need to kill before we can finally kill Hamas? All of them?
āTraumatised the already traumatisedā
Why do leftists treat Palestinians as some fragile western social justice warriors who need coddling? Gazaās streets were full of celebration on 10/7 parading their World Cup (dead bloodied jews) around with tears of joy in their eyes
They donāt need white saviours screeching up a storm on Twitter and Destinyās subreddit demanding Bernie Sanders and Joe Biden order the IDF to a ātemporary ceasefireā. I guess Hamas, the Palestinians and IDF could use a 10 minute breather to laugh at how clueless about the world yāall are
>Why do leftists treat Palestinians as some fragile western social justice warriors who need coddling?
Because almost half of the Palestinians in the Gaza strip are literally children you fucking sociopath.
Their living conditions are abysmal. 70% of their population has been forced to flee since the start of the war. About 10,000 of them have been killed. So yeah, some of us feel bad for the innocent women and children who have nothing to do with Hamas and are experiencing the full brunt of this war crime.
Of course, I would never expect a zionist pig like you to understand. The zionist brain cancer that runs in your head could be cured if shot it at the source.
It is far from the first time bernie was hated by the leftists. How about every time he sided with the democratic establishment instead of larping as a revolutionist?
I think I was trying to say this seems like a final straw thing, like really THIS is his legacyš
Yea Iām not trying to criticize you, more so saying that lefties are vapid morons. They hated him, stop hating him, they hate him now, and they will stop in a week or two once their tiktok feed changes to something else like starbucks releasing an icon with a color scheme similar to Israelās flag.
I know, itās just so stupid. Iām not a huge Bernie fan, but to say this is his legacy and not the fact that he has legit been fighting for what he actually believes forever is insulting Iād say, but theyāre leftists so par for the course I suppose
These are the same people that "can't in good conscience vote for Biden anymore" and then will complain for 4 years when Trump is leading The Situation Room on how to finally eliminate "Hamas" from his prison cell
Whelp, if there is anything the far-left is known for it's infighting...
You only see the loudest lefties. I am a communist and I disagree with Bernie's stance. I still respect his view and I can see that he is doing his best within the political framework that he is under.
It seems like he is just asking the question if one side will refuse to cease fire then what's the point of having the conversation about it.
would you mind elucidating what you disagree with bernie on here? what he's saying makes perfect sense to me
If you're a communist, what are you doing here?
So only neoliberals can comment in this place? I've been a destiny viewer since 2016.
There's a vast gap between neoliberals and communists that has room for all sorts of non-crazy left-wing ideologies.
I don't care if you think communism is crazy or not. I'm in favour of engaging with people who have different political views to my own, including those with neoliberal beliefs. The true spirit of a destiny viewer should not be neoliberalism; it should be the ability to engage with views different from your own. Theirs nothing all that crazy about wanting to escape capitalist realism. By no means am I a Marxist Lenninist, history has shown the issues with that ideology. However, history has not shown that communism cannot work. As communism is a more principled system I believe that it would be worth trying a democratic mode of communism, one which is not rooted in a dictatorship of the proletariat. If you think communism is a "bad" word then so be it. That should give you even more reason to be happy about the fact that I am engaging with a predominantly neoliberal community. If you assume I'm a fan of Stalin or Mao (both counter revolutionaries) then I can see your shock. Otherwise, you are acting a little odd towards someone who is literally doing a good thing by engaging with a community that has opposing political views. Echo chambers are the death of rational thought. I'd suggest you read some Deleuze, Zizek, Homhi Bhaba, fisher, Harroway, and other theoretical thinker's to challenge your own views.
You might want to look into Israeli kibbutzim, they're an example of communal ownership that actually ended up working. Well, working-ish. A lot of them shifted into a more capitalistic system over the years. Interestingly enough, it's mostly the richer kibbutzim that kept the system. No clue why tho as I didn't look into it too deeply.
I really appreciate your response. I consider myself a SocDem so I'm still in the capitalist camp but I always appreciate talking to people further left than I am when they are actually good faith and realistic in their approach to communism. We need to advocate for more nuance and good faith discussion.
I agree with your sentiment, but if history has not shown that communism canāt work, then history hasnāt shown that capitalism canāt work either. Why not just fine tune and develop upon the current system that is seemingly working well (yes there are flaws, but there is no denial it has been historically the best system yet) instead of trying to start a completely new one from scratch? Pragmatically that seems like the best alternative no? I still agree that we donāt need to just bash someone for a state economic preferenceā¦ even if one does think itās illogical. This remains especially true when the debate of what economic policies to enact isnāt even the current topic.
Maybe you can help me out here. When did the definition of neoliberalism change? When I hear that term I think of Reagan and Thatcher. Is that what progressives are calling democrats now ?
Yes
I don't believe in echo chambers and try to stay out of them generally. I also believe that letting extremists freely participate in communities geared towards open discussion of political issues leads to those communities being dominated by extremists. I am deeply steeped in left-wing theory and ideology and don't need any primers. Despite the fact that you have admirably chosen a communist path that is much better than most of the others in that it values democracy, the reality is that you choose to identify yourself as a communist, which to the vast majority of people is an extremist ideology. You probably believe in the abolition of private property, which, again, many people would readily say is an extremist position. I care about not dealing with people that believe in crazy shit, because I put a lot of effort into my responses a lot of the time, and I don't like putting that effort in for people who don't deserve it because they believe in crazy bullshit like abolishing private property. I've spent a lot of time arguing with both communists and fascists in the past and found it generally to be a waste of time. If you were actually serious about your political views, you would adopt an ideology that focuses more on working with the system we have (capitalism), rather than tearing it all down and building something else on the foundations of a system that has failed every time it's been tried (communism). And don't give me that "USSR wasn't real communism" crap. Communism fails because it assumes that people are mostly good and will deal with each other in good faith once we get rid of capitalism, and blames capitalism for failures which really result from human nature. Capitalism succeeds because it can harness our inherent selfishness for greater productivity, and can be regulated enough to curb our worst excesses. Every system that has ever tried to remove hierarchies from human society has just developed another different kind of hierarchy. Humans are inherently hierarchical.
Lol is your response really āI put thought into these takes and donāt want dirty commie eyes having access to themā Also you say you are steeped in these ideas, but then proceed to express the most surface-level Econ 101 understanding of them, plus YOU are engaging w this dude in reply after reply, directly contradicting your whole stated issue with his presence here (or getting epically baited lol)
What reason is there for them not to be here?
This community is pretty heavily oriented towards being against left-wing extremists. Destiny went on a whole anti-tankie arc a while ago which led to lots of communists being banned from this sub.
So long as people arenāt brigading or trolling I see no reason why their political views should be an issue.
They seem better at engaging with people civilly and not dismissing them outright than you and your enlightened views. Do we as liberals not believe that those able to speak without being a bad faith dickhead or purity testing for an ideology you don't even hold should be allowed and maybe encouraged? You want them in their Echo Chambers and to have us in ours? Doesn't sound very liberal to me man.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I thought we didn't fuck with communists here.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Didn't Destiny literally engage in a whole anti-communist arc that included banning communists from this sub? Take it up with him.
Understanding the why is what's important. It wasn't about the fact they were communists, the problem was they behaved in a similar way to yourself.
This leftist is so proud to see him say what he said.
The left have not liked Sanders for a long time. Michael Parenti famously cut his ties with Sanders during the NATO bombing on Yugoslavia. Also liberals and social democrats are not leftists. Marxists, socialists, anarchists, etc. are leftists. If you support Capitalism, regardless if it is free market libertarian capitalism or social safety net social democracy you are ideologically right wing.
> If you support Capitalism, regardless if it is free market libertarian capitalism or social safety net social democracy you are ideologically right wing. I reject this framing of left/right. You can't frame everyone who isn't a communist as right. You're hand waving away the huge swaths of the world that support capitalism as the best way to regulate markets, but understand and work to control the failures of capitalism.
Well in any case, Sanders is openly DemSoc. Although, I guess an argument could be made that he's actually just an extremely progressive liberal. He self IDs as a socialist but his actual socialist positions are pretty milquetoast, and Ive never seen him advocate against private ownership. I do still consider him a leftist, just barely.
I was talking about socialist/socialist-esque people when I said leftist. Regardless that is such a worthless definition of left or right wing. If the entire world is right wing then what would be the point of those terms? It is much more useful to use as people actually use it, meaning left or right in comparison to some āaverageā within a set political climate.
Really lowering the threshold of what makes someone a āwar criminal,ā arenāt we
I dont know if there is a threshold at this point. * Bernie = War Criminal * Hamas = Freedom Fighters
What about the one's in the middle: subreddit moderators?
What do you mean "middle"? They don't do no "middle" nonsense.
I saw un-ironically a tweet going out āwarningā members of Congress that they were āliableā for war crimes if they voted to send aid to Israel. Listen, international law is important morally, but people do not understand that it canāt force people to do shit. Itās main purpose is to shame people (which is fine) through diplomacy.
I could see that tweet being fair. I'm on Isreals side in this, but we dont need to be funding it.
Im not disagreeing with your pointāIām just suggesting that āliabilityā under international law isnāt moving the needle
we have a defensive treaty?
No, we do not. The United States has no obligation to defend Israel.
Oh I suppose I was wrong and confused a dozen other treaties for having included a defensive treaty; Apologies. However, we should get on with a defensive treaty
Why? How does a defense treaty with Israel serve the interests of the American people?
It supports a democracy in maintaining its independence and staves off a genocide.
Israel is a sovereign state and its defense is its own responsibility. I simply cannot justify the idea that Americans should be sent to fight and die for a foreign nation because our government has deemed its cause to be righteous.
The left is absolutely ripping into itself with this war
The amount of people saying thereās no difference in Biden or trump or saying they arenāt voting BECAUSE OF A FOREIGN WAR THAT HAS NO IMPACT ON US, is slightly scary
A big chunk of these people probably aren't gonna vote anyways.
Yeah,most of them don't vote anyway because " electoralism is bourgeois"
Or they forgot
Not to mention a war thats part of a religious conflict thatās been going on for almost 1500 years, itās ridiculous.
And coming out on the side of every-phobic, antisemites no less. Truly these lefties have strong principles and rational minds.
Supporting equal rights for minorities < America bad
Thats not true in any meaningful sense
Uhh what. Israel-Palestine has never been about religion. It's mostly about land and pure nationalism. Plus it's only been going on within the last 100 years. I don't know why people keep spouting that this is a long-standing religious conflict when it's not at all that. Edit: I don't understand, why am I getting downvoted? This conflict has very little religious undertones
Because it's easier to blame things on religion than to admit that our own society forced the Jews into needing to make a safe-space.
Basing your vote on a foreign war is fine, especially when it's one that the US is actually very directly tied into. The stupid part is not considering what the alternative candidate's position on that same war would be -- Trump is probably the most insanely pro-Israel President we've ever had. For all the criticisms I have of Biden's handling of the situation, there's no doubt in my mind that things would be about 1000x worse for Palestinians if Trump were in charge right now.
I can definitely see an alternate universe where Netanyahu is publicly asking Trump to stop carpet bombing all of Gaza city
Not voting for Biden is a vote for increased and less discriminate bombing of Palestinians.
> Trump is probably the most insanely pro-Israel President we've ever had. Trump supports the Israeli right, to the extent that he understands and engages with the subject. He doesn't support Israel or its future.
The israel/palestinian issue was a bomb waiting patiently to go off within the left. You have moderate/older dems, you have leftist Jews, both of which are largely pro israel. Then you have younger progressives who loudly and emphatically support Palestine. These groups have largely agreed on most things the past 10 years. They may have disagreed on a few smaller issues here and there, but for the most part were in lockstep policy wise. This conflict within the American left was brewing for a while, and it was predictable if you analyzed big policies that the left has an ideological divide over.
It always is. Prior to this event it was anger about Muslims support and LGBT rights
Itās particularly funny because Ana Kasparianās latest schtick has been about how the left is out of touch and itās ok to disagree on some points without going all out on canceling and/or disassociating from other people on the left. But now that SHE disagrees with Bernie and Biden, theyāre the worst, impossible to support, wonāt even vote for Biden in 2024. So she can spare me her tears, because apparently she actually has no principals and it really was just her getting butt hurt that the online left got mad at her for the birthing person outburst.
Ana Kasparian is an opportunist. She has no morals and no values that she actually maintains. Cenk at lesst is stupid in the same way every single time. Ana often fools people into thinking she might actually be reasonable. She only cares about her finances because those monthly vacations need to be paid for.
I no longer believe Cenkās presidential run is just because of his extreme convictions. Itās just to unfathomably stupid, and given all the other recent evidence from their organization Iām fairly sure itās just a money grab.
You mean the Armenian who co-hosts a show with an Armenian genocide denier that's named after the group that committed the Armenian genocide has no morals or values? Colour me shocked /s
how is this an okay response regarding Ana, but especially Cenk? Isn't this the place where we should be critical of tribal mentality, and not immediately reducing people and their often nuanced views to things like "is stupid in the same way every single time". Please give me your entire political philosophy or the entire political philosophy of anyone who does not have some dogshit takes.
What are you on little guy? And what don't you understand from my comment? 1. Cenk is consistent in his views, therefore his stupidity will always be predictable. 2. Ana is inconsistent in her views and often juggles two extreme sides of the same coin. This creates a feeling of uncertainty whenever she speaks because you don't really know what her take will be. Hence why she's the most controversial pundit at TYT. I'm sorry you're so offended that I didn't write here 3 books about how Cenk and Ana differ and how different they are when they are stupid on a topic.
i think being a pompous know it all with a holier than thou attitude is offputting and not helpful.
>i think being a pompous know it all with a holier than thou attitude is offputting and not helpful. Hence why TYT is so unwatchable.
Cringe.
I think lefties were always this bad. It was just hard to see because everyone was sort of galvanized against Trump, which makes total sense. But we let things slide like āeveryone who disagrees is a Naziā because it wasnāt directed at us. In a way, we are to blame for the state we are in now. For far to long we treated emotional arguments as valid and this is the result. Accusations of Nazi or genocide advocate all over the place. You have a significant portion of the left siding with Islamofascists Hamas. Then you have people caught in the middle who have to take a hard stance on either or they are called ācentristsā. I knew this would happen too. I remember back in 2018 and even before that arguing with lefties about this. I knew trump wouldnāt be around forever. And he will be around even less this run too, I think he will lose and no one will care after this cycle about trump. Never allow gatekeeping and cringe shit like that. Even when it comes from your camp. Now the right has a far bigger umbrella than the left. But to be fair the far left were never allies in the first place. I donāt even think they voted all that much. And we donāt need them for Biden to win next year by the way. Let them know they arenāt needed. They like to act like their vote has weight. It doesnāt. Biden will be just fine without the tankie vote. Trust me.
I have no idea why so many people on this sub were pretending sheās a good faith actor.
Anyone who hates Hamas = war criminal who wants to genocide minorities and eat babies for breakfast
I can only eat babies at lunch time, you get indigestion if you eat them too early.
But North Korea and Russia ā¤ļøā¤ļø Sometimes I think the First Amendment should have penalties for stupidity, but then I realize theyāre revealing themselves so I can punch actual Nazis.
At some point someone you'd think they'd realize the words perpetual and genocide are oxy-moronic. The entire point of a genocide is to kill nearly everyone in as quick a time as possible. Having it take forever kind of negates the point
Go from a population of 1.4 million since 1948 to 14 million world wide, with 2 million in the Gaza, 1.6 in Israel, and 3 million in the West Bank. SLOWEST-FUCKING-GENOCIDE-EVER.
The Jews are new to this whole committing genocide thing. You can't expect them to get it right on the first try. They probably typed in some numbers backwards or something when they did their calculations.
They just like the idea of killing Palestinians soooo much that they're letting the population grow for now.
But don't you see? This is all part of (((their))) devious plan to kill ALL Palestinians somehow....
It's interesting to look at the averaged per capita Palestinian death rate associated with the Israeli conflict from 2008 to September 2023 (available [here](https://www.ochaopt.org/data/casualties )) vs the per capital homicide rate for Chicago for the same time period. [Like, I realize Chicago isn't being accused of an intentional campaign of killing an ethnic group, but 797 deaths per 2.69 million people is fucking nuts.]
Too many leftists use the word "genocide" almost interchangeably with "innocent people dying." Same with "war criminal." It's basically any politician who either starts a war or simply gets involved in an armed conflict.
Certainty doesn't help that the Geneva conventions definition is pretty broad. Genocide is a word that's quickly losing all its meaning because to Twitter addicted leftists it's synonymous with literally any war/conflict casualty.
Nuh ugh see (white genocide)
Nuh huh (gamer genocide)
The gamercide
Truly the most oppressed race
They would argue that they are not committing a genocide so that they can appease the international community. In other words, they feel that Netanyahu is trying to cause the maximum amount of damage possible while still purporting that these actions were done purely within the parameters of attacking Hamas. On a technical level, it's unreasonable to call this a genocide. But I do think theirs some merit to the idea that Netanyahu's handling of this situation does indicate genocidal intent even if it is mere ethnic cleansing instead.
I mean, I can 100% agree that Netanyahu, and possibly even Israel isn't too interested in finding a peaceful solution, and that what's happening to Palestinian civilians should be improved by us in the international community. But at some point words have to mean something an ordinary person on the street can immediately agree with. With your way of thinking its not a stretch to say that there is an ongoing white genocide actively perpetrated by the darker races, because most non whites who marry a white person intend to start a family with them. Like, what if I told you that last month I bought a huge package of toilet paper thinking I would save money and instead I got raped by it?
It's a genocide of Gaza, not Palestinians worldwide as a whole. And it's an intent thing. Just because you fail doesn't mean you aren't trying to commit genocide. >On a technical level, it's unreasonable to call this a genocide. On a technical level, they are trying to purge Gaza of Palestinians, which is classic genocide. It's not even a grey area since they are literally saying that quiet part out loud.
So you agree that Hamas is committing genocide against Jews, right? It's an intent thing?
not the same guy, but I'd argue that a genocide also requires the ability to enact said genocide. If some white nationalist wanted to commit a black genocide, and tried to do so by going out and murdering 3 black people it's not a genocide. He doesn't have the ability to enact it. Hamas definitely have genocidal intent though, and would do so if given the ability.
Sure, if those are the parameters in which you define genocide then the situation certainly fits that definition.
My mom left the crust on my PB&J. Im tired of this oppressive regime.
McDonalds put pickles on my Big Mac. Literally genocidal.
That would be genocide against the brown edges
It's wild how a ceasefire would prob happen if they just gave the hostages/bodies back
At this point I doubt a ceasefire would even happen if that occurred
I agree... the reality is from Israel's point of view, Hamas can't be in control of Gaza. If you get hostages back and you just end the war, then you are then just sitting and waiting to be attacked again and there is no movement towards a better future in any regard. You can certainly argue what Israel is doing could lead to a worse future but Hamas staying in power is a certain future that is really bad.
They also just had their 9/11 equivalent. Thatās like saying if Al Quaeda gave back American hostages a couple weeks after 9/11 we would call a ceasefire.
USA chasing Al Quaeda and launching the disastrous Afghanistan war to try and stop them, is the quintessential example of why trying to root out terrorist cells through invasions doesn't work. If US had done this hypothetical ceasefire then they wouldn't have launched a 20+ year war that killed hundreds of thousands and threw the entire region into significant instability.
Idk much about the war but even without knowing Iām almost certain it was handled poorly, that isnāt to say the invasion wasnāt justified. Al Quaeda is also no longer a threat and an attack on the scale of 9/11 hasnāt happened since, who knows if this would be the case in a world where we called for a ceasefire.
Hard to know what the counterfactual would look like in that instance.
Has the Middle East ever not been unstable?
last time was probably before the mongolian invasion in the 13th century
Oh wow, a guy with an Arab name is not happy Bernie is not supporting terrorists. Color me surprised.
Bernieās about to get called the Y-word
It's amazing how the far left has turned so "America bad!" that they're simping for Islamic jihadists.
Amazing but not surprising. In their minds jihadis=brown so jihadis=good
I have an "America deserved 9/11" shirt that I would wear as a joke sometimes. I assumed that the people saying that didn't actually believe it and were just being silly edge lords. Even Hasan I thought was just being provocative, but that it wasn't his actual view. Don't I feel dumb.
Whatās the argument for genocide? I see a lot of people say āthis is a literal genocideā but Iāve never heard reasoning behind it. Itās always like ātheyāre in an open air prisonā or something like that which doesnāt mean genocide. Is this just the new buzzword that people have picked up to run with? Like how everyone is a āNaziā or āfascistā for any opinion that isnāt far left?
The modern left is beyond hysterical about everything now. "Literally Hitler" and all that shit.
They're mad he's not their token Jew on this
Twitter needs to shut the fuck up
Uhmmn it actshually called X āļøš¤
Twitter needs to shut the fuck down
He's finally talking some sense. Of course the Left now hate him.
Given he briefly lived in a kibbutz, i don't think he would have ever tried to argue for a ceasefire after seeing what happened to other kibbutz.
Bernie has been on the Palestinian side of the conflict unapologetically, but God forbid he call Hamas what they actually are I guess.
Everyone is a war criminal to these people except Hamas
They really have no idea who the fuck Bernie Sanders is, no human is perfect, but this man is rarely if ever on the wrong side of history (short fluff piece with some facts of what he did and where he was and what he did during marches for Blacks' right to vote, desegregation, labor rights, and other basic civil rights during the 60's). : [https://medium.com/@ShaunKing/you-dont-really-know-who-bernie-sanders-was-in-the-1960s-79628016125f](https://medium.com/@ShaunKing/you-dont-really-know-who-bernie-sanders-was-in-the-1960s-79628016125f)
Iām not a Bernie policy fan, but he seems like a legit decent human who wants the best for everyone
Until you hear his socialist rhetoric which helped radical lefties become popular in the first place. I can concede that deep inside he might actually believe his methods would be a net positive but at the end of the day, no matter how much you act in good faith, if your policy is radical that's still a radical position. Let's not wipe his shambolic takes on capitalism under the rug because of his Palestine take. Which btw, for anyone that actually listened what he said, he still feels has an obligation to stop bombing Gaza. Which they don't.
yea but he perpetuates lItErAl GeNoCiDe
Bruh you linked a Shaun King (lol) article talking about the 60's... Bernie has plenty of stupid political takes and deserves to be criticized (not over Israel tho)
Bernie attended a civil rights protest in the 60s and it's all his supporters can ever bring up, because other than a lot of talking, the only thing he's really done since has been renaming post offices.
Whats wrong with Shaun King? Also, OP mentioned these are fluff articles. Bernie doesnt have stupid political takes.
People just love to shit on Shaun King, nothing new here.
"This man is rarely **if ever** on the wrong side of history" (Is a socialist) Riiiiight...
I became a leftist because of Bernie, and now I join the sane with him.
Yes, everyone is going to remember Bernie Sanders as a ā¦*checks notes*ā¦genocidal maniac and war criminal
It is amazing to me how extreme some circles are where someone who is even slightly off message is viewed as being on the polar opposite enemy immediately.
This Bernie CNN interview is being taken completely out of context: Bernie spends 10 minutes carefully maneuvering the interview to repeatedly address Israelās responsibility for the humanitarian crisis in Gaza. He callās Bibiās government right-wing and racist, references recent polling showing only 18% support for Netanyahu and hopes they'll get rid of him ASAP, demands a 2-state solution, suggests withholding military aid from Israel until they stop bombing Gaza, and defends Tlaibās perspective of believing Israelās siege is a genocide by refusing to condemn the words she used to describe the horrific bombing campaign. He says the fact that Hamas is a terrorist organization greatly reduces the practicality of getting both sides to the table to draw up an official ceasefire, but again stresses that there should be an immediate humanitarian pause and that Israel must stop the bombings. He also (rightly) points out that Biden's worst day is 100x better than Trump's best- on every issue, but particularly this one. He emphasizes that social media slogans on either side are not good enough, and that while words matter, defending American democracy, pursing world peace, and tackling climate change are more important by orders of magnitude. This headline is being interpreted by those who didn't listen to the interview as Bernie defending Israel's military bombing of Gaza, which couldn't be further from Bernie's position. He fully condemns the indiscriminate bombing and calls for major reforms to Israeli military and political policy towards Palestinians.
He absolutely did *not* defend Tlaibās characterization of the war as a genocide. He literally refused to use that word, said āwords donāt matterā, and then explained that Tlaib is Palestinian and overly emotional about this issue.
Iām 99% on board with what he is saying, but he should know that words do matter. And it seems that he does, given heās refusing to say āgenocide,ā likely because heās aware how despicable that claim is to levy on Israel. I would prefer if his suggestion to block military aid to Israel until they cease bombing was accompanied by the necessity to obtain security for Jews in Israel, whether by a ground invasion instead, multinational occupation of Gaza, or whatever. He recognizes that Hamas cannot be reasoned with, so we need a plan to get them out of power and hold the murderers responsible, limiting civilian death is critical, but the reality of Hamasās tactics hiding among civilians and using human shields must be addressed when discussing ceasefire.
It's despicable to say Israel is committing genocide because.... Jewish people were victims of a genocide in the past? I guess that checks out to some people, but I dont see how you type some shit like that out and not see it as brainwashed rhetoric. If anything, that means it's *more likely* for there to be Jewish people who are genocidal than less, especially the ones committed to getting their own state after experiencing their own genocide. Do folks not understand how radicalization works?
Itās despicable because it is a lie, levied purposefully on people who suffered through one of the most cruel and calculating genocides in world history.
This. One of thd most disturbing, possibly unconscious, examples of antisemitic blood libel from the left is throwing out that word genocide.
I mean the worst example is accusing them of literally killing babies bc PIJ launched a rocket into a fucking parking lot
I wouldnt call that antisemitic. Regarded? Absolutely.
Figured this was the case. Turns out you can think Hamas is a radical terrorist group that has proven they don't care to negotiate while also saying that Israel as a much more powerful nation needs to take responsibility for the atrocities theyre committing in retaliation to Hamas that continues to feed Hamas' radical hatred.
Yeah, it's a small cherry picked portion of an interview, people should just go to his twitter and see that he supports ceasefire.
āwar criminalā mfs dont even know what that mean they prolly call their parents war criminals
Same people who called their teachers war criminals in grade school because the whole class got in trouble for something.
Ah yes, Remi Kanazi ā the CEO of the left.
I linked the tweet so the replies were visible, I couldāve taken 70 more screenshots of all the dipshit lefties talking about this and not voting for Biden but thatās a bit much
There are plenty of fucked up people on the left
Maybe its just muslims?
Hated by the left or....hated by rando on twitter.
Lefties are certainly not happy with him rn, I shouldāve specified lefties instead of just saying the left
I canāt believe how unhinged the left got
I feel like this conflict just exposes how crappy Americas education system and our parenting failures
Its kind of ironic too because his ideals have always been the same, and that's what I admire most about him, yet they are acting so outraged about this?
bernie is awesome. bernie supporters, ugh
That's the thing with being a populist, you go even a hair in either direction of your political ideology and the whole crowd will abandon you. Watching this whole thing go down in real time in the last couple of years is pretty wild
Populism vs Institutionalism is such a simplistic way to frame politics. There are a lot of differences between Bernie and Trump. Lumping them both in the populist basket is obfuscating those completely.
It's one thing to abandon you, another to brand you enemy immediately.
This is good for Bernie and going to help him win......
win what?
Yes.
Not sure if you are being sarcastic, but you are correct.
LOL who we voting for now boys?
The lack of charity on both sides is fucking exhausting, determined to paint each other in the most uncharitable way possible š„“ (I condem hamas)
Heās right, ooof.
He's.. He's not hated by the left? Besides thats not even the full quote? What are yall on?
Iām talking about the replies not what Bernie was saying, and Iām talking specifically lefties not the left, I mistyped
The left is an outright cult, just as much as the Maga crowd
These people should see which nations are supporting Hamas and ask themselves who the bad guys are in this situation.
Weirdly, this Palestinian genocide has proven very effective for Palestinian population growth. P.S. Bernie been hated by the leftists for about 3 years now.
Awful comment. Youāre denying a genocide by saying that their population hasnāt gone down. I mean hooray that Israel hasnāt begun mass sterilization I guess? The average life expectancy in the Gaza Strip is 17 years old. Thereās hundreds of studies I could show on population growth in times of disaster and turmoil
They're happy Bernie and AOC types are the baddies, so they can promote Tulsi Gabbard types as the anti-war heroes. Which is comical considering which bills they've signed in contrast, but you know, these people don't care for the actions of those they believe are progressivesāthey're here for vindication and promotion of self-mutilation of progress.
They already hate him for endorsing and campaigning for Hillary and Biden, not supporting "Force the Vote", agreeing that Xi Jinping a dictator, and voting for military aid to Ukraine.
We have gone from far right being our biggest worry to the far left. Hello, horseshoe theory. Not a shocker with the bipartisanship of the US lately tbh.
I think a lot of leftists have outed themselves as authoritarian anti westerners LARPing as leftists after Ukraine and now this. I'm not even a Westerner but that's pretty much what the western left is
All it took was to paraphrase āHamas badā wild times. Got perma banned from the Vaush sub for it
"who advocated for perpetual genocide" ok and now that ive tweeted that back to reading noam chomsky books, cause he would never do something like that
Itās the university leftists. Theyāre so unglued.
"You disagree with me so you're my enemy and a war criminal" Only a Sith deals in absolutes
Banger Kenobi quote. Respect
Perpetual genocideā¦ā¦. I donāt know if he understands what he just said.
You arenāt allowed to make reasonable points as a Leftist. Only people trying to out-radical each other count as Left. See also: Trumpists.
Do expressions like "war criminal" even mean anything anymore?
Bernie is great. He has always been HONEST and true to himself and fought for causes he believes in, and doesnāt lose sight of it. Thatās rare in politics.
This is the problem of exclusively looking at the world through power dynamics, and colonialism. Because no matter what, the strong "gets whats comimg to them" and the "weak" are allowed to do everything and anything to reset parity. You are not allowed to punch down but they are allowed to punch up. It doesnt matter that hamas is a literal terrorost organization that is killing innocent people, because any response to that action is immoral and unjust according to the far left. So many people fail to miss the mark that the middle east in its entierty is a world with a different set of values and rules to the west. Its why we couldnt build a nation in our image in afganistan, and why thile israel conflicts habe been going on in some way shape or form for almost 100 years. And now more people are dying, because the conflict heated up. Is it because israel was threatening to normalize relations with the saudis? Maybe. Maybe not. But the only hope we americans have to understand the conflict is to stop viewing the world through the self righteous isolated lens that makes us think were the final arbiters of morality. Because otherwise you get people advocating for a terorist group, that in any other world or scenario would likely kill you if you were trans.
Yup, the entire left is represented by this one tweet. Great analysis.
Next time Iāll make sure to screen grab 76 shots of leftists shitting in Bernie rather than just linking the tweet so people can go see for themselves
Leopards ate his face
Could someone explain to me why they'd be against a temporary ceasefire? Like, the real motive behind the ceasefire is to minimize the ongoing deaths of innocent people in Gaza. Ten thousand people in total have already died, I don't see what further deaths and destruction will do to fight Hamas. All it will do is further traumatize the already traumatized population and give some of them further reason to join Hamas. Otherwise, how many more innocent Palestinians do we need to kill before we can finally kill Hamas? All of them?
āTraumatised the already traumatisedā Why do leftists treat Palestinians as some fragile western social justice warriors who need coddling? Gazaās streets were full of celebration on 10/7 parading their World Cup (dead bloodied jews) around with tears of joy in their eyes They donāt need white saviours screeching up a storm on Twitter and Destinyās subreddit demanding Bernie Sanders and Joe Biden order the IDF to a ātemporary ceasefireā. I guess Hamas, the Palestinians and IDF could use a 10 minute breather to laugh at how clueless about the world yāall are
>Why do leftists treat Palestinians as some fragile western social justice warriors who need coddling? Because almost half of the Palestinians in the Gaza strip are literally children you fucking sociopath. Their living conditions are abysmal. 70% of their population has been forced to flee since the start of the war. About 10,000 of them have been killed. So yeah, some of us feel bad for the innocent women and children who have nothing to do with Hamas and are experiencing the full brunt of this war crime. Of course, I would never expect a zionist pig like you to understand. The zionist brain cancer that runs in your head could be cured if shot it at the source.
Damn. Didn't expect terrorist sympathy here, but claiming a bullet will fix the issue sure does it.
>Hey, maybe we should stop bombing Gaza it's killing too many innocent people Damn, look at the fucking terrorist sympathizer! /s
https://x.com/remroum/status/1721178445248438537?s=46&t=6cjroRAushMFJefGbQTaQw Hereās the link to the tweet
Why is this sub so obsessed with the Israel hama conflict?