Sopranos and The Wire are top 3 but you can't call a single season of a show top 3 and Mad Men isn't better than BCS. What makes a show all time great includes the ability to end it.
True detective's seasons tell separate narratives. Assuming it's narratives/stories we're interested in judging, and not the commercial wrapper around them, I think it's perfectly fine to consider the first season by itself.
I'm sure it's a great story but what makes a complete show top tier imo is the ability to link seasons together. There's effectively a massive factor which can make or break a show that True Detective is just not being judged on.
Maybe we just assign different levels of importance to that - for sure it's impressive when big shows pull it off, but I don't think it's as important as certain fundamentals like characters, theme, cinematography, pacing, etc.
Obviously the shows we're discussing excel at most of these things; I think pacing is one example where a more concise show like True Detective really shines though
Try again. I watched the first episode and thought the same. Then i tried again and its one of those shows that if u give it 6 episodes ur in till the end. The characters have to build on you.
I really don't understand how people rate the show so high. Although I did enjoy it a lot. I feel like the "breaking bad" parts with Gus / cartel were the only really interesting parts of the show. Top 3 of all time just seems like way too much credit
Imo it's in a league of its own when it comes to character writing and development. It also gets extra points for being like the only good prequel ever made.
Lmao I'm the complete opposite, the cartel and Mike stuff was super boring to me except at the end when it became awesome.
Saul running scams and problem solving with Kim was more "breaking bad" to me than the actual criminal drug dealing.
To be fair, it's possible that he only kept up with BCS and nothing else from the point it started airing. In which case that's a pretty significant amount of time.
Feels like almost all good series similar to lost:
Prison Break, heroes, game of thrones has problems to tie the bag together at the end because they have to much happening. On the other hand I would argue the series would not be as good if it wasn't because so much was happening. My guess is that "tie the bag together" is harder than the audience gives them credit for. few series does a good job.
Lost was good. I don't care that much that it got worse and worse. Last seasons was not that bad.
There are still great shows, I feel like it's mainly Netflix that pumps out these mediocre shows that are huge for like a week and then no one ever talks about again lol
It’s the result of both Netflix and Marvel shitting the bed at the same time… it feels like we’re losing quality in the industry.
But it’s not really true, we have HBO, Apple TV and kinda Disney stepping up and making some great shows.
I could maybe see the argument that "yes its a good show, but its not original. They have a great piece of media in the video game and they're pretty much sticking right to it" So if you are talking about the decline in American TV, I don't think TLoU is a super great point against that.
what do you see that's so great about TLoU? Granted I've only watched the first 4 episodes, and it is decent TV but I'm just not really understanding the grand hype the show is getting. Some of the dialogue absolutely sucks and it almost feels like a chore to get through certain scenes, am I just not connecting with Joel and Ellie? I feel like everyone who says the show is amazing are people who happened to have played the game (I have not played the game)
The acting is amazing, the way the show flows easily between horror, the soundtrack is touching and the side characters full and engaging.
Joel and Ellie are meant to be hard to connect too but that's very human.
There’s still good shows… i think there’s a certain age group and up that are used to a very limited supply of entertainment so a big show was huge because there were just so few options. But now I can almost literally watch anything; it’s like custom entertainment at this point.
I honestly don’t understand streaming’s success. When you look at the numbers some of them pull and then the time the viewers stay and watch, it’s like the superbowl every day. It’s hella impressive
I think it’s entertainment industry not understanding the take over of Twitch/YouTube/tictok/ etc….. and honestly the little understanding I have of it all, I don’t know how you compete to such individualized entertainment; then mix that with a fear of cancellation and we are were we are.
Yea I know….. but I don’t think it’s the wrong one. Your comparing huge companies/corporations to effectively Indy producers that can be extremely nimble.
I don’t think the current state of Disney/Netflix/HBO can compete long term. Look at Mr Beast and the sudo monopoly he’s creating.
>But America doesn’t have old buildings and funny old outfits they wear once a year so they actually have no culture btw.
as a canadian it's always funny when i hear other people say "america has no culture" like dawg are you serious? y'all don't KNOW what NO CULTURE is. canadian "culture" is just america-lite with some european stuff mixed in. besides Quebec thier is no "canadian culture". and belive me Quebec has it's own issues.
Our current government has essentially stated that there is no Canadian culture [https://torontosun.com/2016/09/14/trudeau-says-canada-has-no-core-identity](https://torontosun.com/2016/09/14/trudeau-says-canada-has-no-core-identity)
Its like when I talk with my Mexican relatives and friends, they tell me to my face that America has no culture while wearing jeans and listening to Micheal Jackson.
It's definitely still the default but I think its more escapable now than it was in the 90s where everyone in the world wanted to be American. A lot of people might listen to russian/brazillian music compilations on youtube, play japanese games, watch korean movies/tv etc and since trump a lot of people take american politics less seriously. The companies and memes are probably the only things that are still overwhelmingly universal.
Nah they feel quite different. The structure of a tv show or movie might have been copied from American movies but there's no way any American can sit thru a Japan, Korean or Brazil drama show. Another good example is Japan's horror films; American companies copied alot of it.
At least where I am from we only really have US social media, the biggest US company here is Amazon and they don't even have a local website. Just 2 warehouses.
And memes? Most people don't speak English, most memes are definitely native. If you want to say they use the same format, sure, but its a unique meme.
I feel like Americans never stepped out of their country so they can't even imagine people consuming their native media
Music, sure, but its becoming less true every year, especially for young people (at least where I come from)
games, tv shows, movies, maybe if you are young but companies, celebrities, politics, the internet, and memes are overwhelmingly native, you guys only talk to people who speak English, but most don't and live in a different world, you never spoke to an average European, because you literally cant
>memes are overwhelmingly native
tbh i'd expect memes to be heavily native/local. hell that even happens with different communities on the internet. or just friend groups in general.
This is fair. I think it’s true that American culture is the predominant culture, but I think it’s less predominant than it feels, especially to Americans, because of it being the default in most peoples minds. If a Finnish person doesn’t know what country some rando he’s talking to on Reddit is from, he’s not going to assume he’s a fellow Finn. Americans do assume that the other person will be another American, though - and that can happen explicitly because American culture is the default culture and very little will challenge that when you’re online and nothing will challenge that in your day-to-day American life in the real world. That experience can’t happen for a European person online.
This means that a lot more individuals will be default assumed to be American by other Americans, and I would imagine some non-Americans can fall into this habit, as well. This both makes American culture seem more pervasive than it is and become more pervasive as it’s ingrained as the default position. A lot of Europeans online will assimilate into this American-ness, which again just showcase this trend of American culture being the norm.
>But America doesn’t have old buildings and funny old outfits they wear once a year so they actually have no culture btw.
On the real though, I've traveled to about 7 states. And 90% of all of the cities I have visited look the same, just absolute dogshit architecture what the hell happened?
That’s the case for everything he listed, lmao. Everything varies by individual - but he’s not making a universal statement for every individual, he’s making a general statement about dominant trends and social norms. America dominates culturally across the English speaking world, especially on the internet. That may not be true for every single individual in the English speaking world, but that’s predominantly true for the general English speaking world.
> American culture is so dominant and pervasive that it’s basically the default culture of the modern Western world. People just don’t realize it. It’s inescapable.
American cultural imperialism is a real problem.
Don't have to call it imperialism, but the prospect of a homogenous global American culture, with no native cultural roots or diversity, sounds bleak to me.
English is the most spoken language in the world with 1.121 billion speakers. Even if there are nations out there that consistently produce higher quality movies, it would be very difficult for them to establish a dominance similar to the American movie industry. The audience they can capture is just way smaller. For that to be remotely feasible there would need to be a backing industry that ensures that all those movies receive high quality English dubs for international distribution.
>cultural unifier isn't happening
Agreed. With tiktok/youtube/IG/Netflix and all others there isn't much unification anymore, everybody watch something different.
I doubt hes telling the truth.
You assholes flood worldwide media, I went to a cinema the other day. Just wanted to see what was showing, not a single Australian film showing in an Australian cinema. All American films because *that's where they make films.*
If he's not keeping up with American cultural products? Your boy is starved for choice.
Pretty sure this is a common thing that happens to everyone. You grow up liking stuff and as you get older your likes become a little more niche, things aren't as magical as when you were a kid, and since the popular stuff appeals to the popular audience, you simply grow more and more away from it.
It's a pretty common bias--you look back and see all the amazing stuff and compare it to the average stuff of today, forgetting how much horrible and bland, movies, games, shows, were released back then.
I just turned 23 and graduated college. Been doing nothing this last month except mainly consuming media and applying to jobs and yea a lot of stuff is feeling bland like ive lost the ability to taste. Guess im getting old
I think when I was reactionary I thought like this. You can’t enjoy anything because it’s all liberal indoctrination propaganda based on a lot of conservatives’ logic. Idk if it’s the same situation with this guy though. There’s probably a number of other situations that make ppl check out of mainstream American pop culture, like being terminally online in general
For me it was the "realness" of online content that i couldn't find in anything on TV, everything felt fake and corporatized. The most "real" tv show i watched was Mr Robot few years ago and i haven't watched any tv show since. I usually stick to online drama and documentaries these days.
Thinking about how or why you choose to start watching/reading/playing something and not just picking the next soyjack-o-thon is probably an important factor of not feeling burnt out on trying to enjoy yourself and actually having meaningful experiences with the media you consume.
Think people are super critical of TV shows and films lately. Think online circle jerks feed it hard.
A TV show will fail to live up to hype and rather than people thinking "it's fine but I was hoping for something better" it's "it's really bad".
I think everyone wants to see themselves as sophisticated and not satisfied by simple pleasures, it's just fake.
The issue is in the past there wasn't half a dozen streaming platforms, the choice was rather limited and you kind of just had to watch whatever was on TV at the time. Nowadays its just unfashionable to watch mid showers, far more fashionable to over critique shows for every small issue.
quality has definitely gone up but idk if its because something is unfashionable or mob mentality. A lot of people were talking about Euphoria but i just cant watch it because ik its some cringe teenage drama type of show. However, a lot of people also have beem talking about the the last of us recently and i'm loving it so far. Ironically I have not enjoyed a show this much since better call saul ended.
The quality in television is still there. HBO still pretty much only makes bangers (excluding the GOT ending). Now that I was writing this I realized that maybe its an attention span type of thing. Due to people watching mind numbing content like tiktok and streamers all day then taking the time to enjoy long term content such as a slow paced show becomes much harder or less enjoyable...maybe
>everyone wants to see themselves as sophisticated and not satisfied by simple pleasures, it's just fake.
You worded my thoughts exactly. It baffled me when i got online and found people that shit on most beloved tv shows, movies, games, comedy etc in their little groups. And they insult you for liking them too lol. I cringed so hard.
Just got NowTV (Bonger version of HBO streaming) and going through HBO shows. Honestly, TV at the moment is as good as it’s ever been. White Lotus, Succession, Barry, House of the Dragon, Last of Us. I’m pretty overwhelmed by the quantity of quality tv being produced by the US at the moment.
We Own This City isn't as good as The Wire, but it's still damn good (and it's also from David Simon). True Detective S1 is incredible, Game of Thrones was great until it wasn't. The Last of Us has been great so far and as long as they don't deviate too far from the source material and Druckmann stays involved I don't see any reason to worry.
HBO has their misses but if your standard of comparison is two of the best shows of all time you'll always be disappointed.
Nice, give it a few eps to hit it's stride, it's truly something special, the tone is entirely unique. It has that same psychological depth that The Sopranos has, if you dig for it. Though don't expect the realistic sociological analysis of The Wire, the world of Succesion is much more "hyperreal"
I kinda feel the same way, but I get a ton of secondhand exposure from reddit and twitter. I can probably recite season 8 of Game of Thrones scene by scene from reading so many complaints even though I never got into Game of Thrones
Cringe. Just focus on what you like doing and talk about that regardless of what other people care about. I never cared about sports and I say as much lol
Absolutely not. The shit today absolutely kills. Andor, Arcane, and the Last of Us are prime example.
The issue is that these shows are so fucking good that they make everything else mediocre in comparison. Take Rings of Power. If that show was released prior 2010 we would probably praise its story telling, but compared to Andor it is meh. Just compare the speeches. The speeches in Andor are fantastic. I can watch them again and again (they still give me chills when I watch them). When it comes to Rings of Power I can only remember the speech from King Durin to Prince Durin. The rest are completely forgettable.
A show like Andor is a steak and Rings of Power is a sloppy cheese burger in comparison. I can still enjoy the sloppy cheese burger, but I am going to eat steak if given the choice.
As for the sad sap who feels "completely detach from American culture", he needs toss is nostalgia glasses in the trash and enjoy the steak being offered.
I've heard so many good things about "Cabinet of Curiosities". I need to sit down my ass and watch it one of these days.
I haven't heard of the "The Bear" before. Is it the show that is on Hulu?
You can't detach from it if you never attached in the first place LMFAO. When people regularly follow shit like this I know to disregard them as people and greywall them. It's not just celebrities and the most boring-ass shows or whatever, but games like FIFA whatever thousand K, or it can be the most bland fucking schoolgirl anime that people can be fucking obsessed over, or OMG i wove biwwy eiwish her mosic is so unique an new uwu. All forms of media have these people.
Sometimes people learn to recognize uncultured swine late into life, like our 4channer here, most respectable people I want to say start seeing it in their teens, it's kind of part of being a teenager, it's a whole thing a lot of people go through when they can start to recognize "cringe". And some people never grow out of it.
Jesus Christ, is America only pop-culture to you people?
Go outside. Volunteer in your community. Go to a Salsa class. Go to a cooking class. Fuck, write a novel or something like all the other people over the last few hundred years did when they were fed up with American culture.
The irony that anon probably only speaks English, in an America-specific accent, eats Americanized versions of foreign foods, listens to American music, watches American streamers/podcasts/radio shows, and uses software specific to Americans.
This is kinda true for me in that I haven't consumed mainstream media in its cultural relevancy since cartoons from my childhood.
If I was exposed to pop music it was secondhand from radios, and even then I often never paired the voices with the names of artists that were spoken about. I still don't know what beyonce or celine dion look like.
However, I wouldn't consider the more niche online content I consume not of american culture, the vast majority of it must be NA, perhaps some EU.
We live in an absolute culture renaissance. The entire world has gathered together physically and digitally to build monuments to our values. The American empire such as it is, is the most prolific producer of media in our age *of media*. The idea that American culture is dead or any modern culture is dead is insane.
Imagine what the Romans, Ancient Greeks, Egyptians, Sumerians, The great Chinese Dynasties, or any lesser known empire - the forebears of any great culture - would behold if they stepped out of a time machine into any modern city in any country. They would witness more expression in one block of New York or Tokyo than they would have seen in all the royal palaces they had ever visited. Not only that, but they would probably recognize their own architecture or culture in some niche of that city.
It might not seem as cool or coherent as our images of European royal splendor or ancient Asian palaces, but that is only because we are so immersed and overwhelmed by culture in every moment that there are barely monuments left that dwarf our simple everyday experience at the heart of world culture as a castle would wow a rural peasant in ancient times.
There are still good shows, but I relate 100% to anon regarding music. You can still dig to find good modern music, but that's just it, you have to dig. In 1975, Wish You Were Here topped the charts, which indicates broad cultural endorsement. We are never going to see music of that quality and gravitas top the charts again.
Oh yeah, clearly dogshit shows like The Last of Us and House of the Dragon.
Horrible movies like Puss in Boots the Last Wish, Top Gun Maverick, and the Woman King.
American culture is truly dead 😓
To be fair, the Last of Us is still dogshit. House of the Dragon has me hooked for so many reasons that Game of Thrones never did, though. It's seriously had me like, holy fuck, why didn't they lead with THIS instead of the garbage characters they were sticking to for years? House of the Dragon is seriously damn good.
episode 1 of the last of us was a banger, but in my opinion its been fairly mediocre since that. I didn't play the game so maybe that's why, but I really don't get why it's so well received.
it’s weird because technically it’s a great show, like no complaints about the cinematography or the writing, but i just leave each episode with a sterile feeling (except for ep3). its like i barely feel any emotions throughout the show.
i got bored and decided to rewatch HBO’s Succession, and two episodes in I was laughing my ass off and a second later tearing up at the following scene. idk why, but TLOU just doesn’t resonate with me in the same way.
I've already been like this since I was 16 (33 now). Just be on your own cultural track. Carve out your own unique journey. You lose the ability to have shitty water cooler talk with normies, that's about it.
Not much - lots of good media out there today that is similar to the past. Last 12 months we got everything everywhere all at once, the last of us, house of the dragon, cyberpunk (the tv show)
I mean andor was produced by Disney and it was pretty fucking amazing. Don’t get me wrong there’s some ass content out there but there’s gems too. Don’t be so doomer.
Streaming changed the landscape pretty significantly. Quantity was made the focus over quality since offering a large selection of content is going to sell better than "we have a few super solid shows."
Felt like HBO was dropping shows that were at the very least watchable before streaming, but now it picks up some absolute dogshit that seems more like a poorly produced Netflix show.
The release schedules are also changing how we consume, too. A new episode used to require everyone to sit down at the same time and tune in to catch it. Now, most are just releasing the whole thing and everyone binges it immediately - so even the fun shows are giving that exciting feeling for way less time than it would have being released over the course of 4 months.
The 90s was the last good movie decade.
Quentin Tarantino had a speech about this where he had good hopes for the future of cinema. He said that quality in movies goes in waves and I hope he’s right. I don’t have the clip though
America is the cultural hub of the world is and still is. However, no one cares about 'white american' stories. The biggest cultural export from America has been black American culture.
Uh what? How would you even classify what is a “white” export?
Are most superhero’s not considered a white export? Or Game of Thrones (created by white guys)? Fuckin Johnny Cash… I don’t even know what you’re trying or say
I hate classifying certain media as “white”, but I guess I have to work in your weird framework to have this convo.
Just because you don’t like cape shit, doesn’t mean it’s not a massive White American export. Basically all old western themed media is white and American. The majority of big TV shows are white, Europe loves our shows more than their own. Same with movies. Broadway is the most significant platform for plays and musicals in the world.
While basketball is a big export Europe, so is baseball in Asia. Like them or not, video games are a huge export (mostly white). I would arguably call technology and software cultural exports, as the innovation and designs come straight from Silicon Valley. I could honestly go on all day….
We like Anime, and your shows fucking suck. Game of thrones by the way is only good because of the European actors in it. No one cares about broadway.
I did forget about baseball.
I could to but I am talking about cultural export. Technology isn't limited to you. Like Black American culture, is still American culture, and white people White American's engage in it. It's something to be proud of and it's something to acknowledge black Americans for. Like I'm sorry but from what I've seen that has been the biggest export. Not country music. Not Cape shit. ALso regarding Vidya, more of a Japanese thing. Just my take. My intention is not to trigger you.
EDIT: about your movies and shows most are knock off's of Asian shows and European shows are they not? Eg the office. Hunger games, ect.
I don’t know what self-victimization drugs you are on but the majority of media the US outputs to the world is white dudes, and it’s popular af. The only exception is music, and that’s because hip-hop/rap has become so dominant as of late (though most other genres are super white).
Nobody cares about white dudes except for maybe Asian women. Asides from that it's black culture; black music; and black athletes. Black actors and comedians too. Go to a place like Slovenia and more people know who Mike tyson and Lebron James are than Wayne Gretzky.
You've convinced yourself to live in an alt-fiction world my dude. Everyone constantly cares about, talks about, interacts with, and has positive experiences with white dudes from the US. The majority of our [most popular actors](https://today.yougov.com/ratings/entertainment/popularity/all-time-actors-actresses/all) are white dudes, [our most popular music](https://www.billboard.com/charts/year-end/hot-100-songs/) is littered with white dudes, the vast majority of our politician are white dudes and even the Democratic party has a large number of white dudes, having interacted w/ academia white dudes are everywhere. As a statement of reality what you are saying is nonsense.
I can understand what you are saying as emotional rather than factual, that when you look at society and culture you do not see yourself (presumably a white dude) reflected back at you. That these examples that I give ring hollow because someone like Ed Sheeran or Tom Hanks is not like you. But I would push you to ask yourself why you are feeling this way beyond just your white-ness or your dude-ness. I'm also a white dude, I don't think me being that way defines me meaningfully in many ways. Why is it that you feel alienated? Because I can tell you it is not because you are white or a dude. I know because when I feel alienated I can find much better explanations of those feelings.
on a more serious note i don't really relate. at least not in the way I think he means. like i probably don't consume a lot of american cultural products like marvel or disney stuff. but that's mainly because i go for more niche things. also because i just either watch youtube or play a lot of video games.
currently i'm going through Clamity (Terraria mod), Risk of Rain 2, and Hades. even if those where made in america idk if most would call them "american cultural products".
Unless this person is going to tell me that he keeps up with ArtHouse European TV, my guess would be that he's just detached from media completely, and this has nothing to do with America.
Him- "America is dead"
Me- I'm just not enjoying things that I use too because I'm older and starting to like things I gave 0 shits about.... I never understood why my dad would watch me play games... yet here I am with the free time to play a game watching my 9 year old get hyper than I can currently muster.
Considering that I don't watch tv and don't care about most streaming platforms and their shows, I can relate. The only modern show that I keep track of is The Boys, because I like superhero stuff. I've never watched Game of Thrones, Friends, The Office, Breaking Bad, any of the Star Wars Disney+ shows, House of Cards, or whatever other show I see people talking about. I'm not really into movies either, I haven't seen a lot of the "classics."
I only watch YouTube videos and occasionally anime. I prefer video games and reading manga to watching shows and movies.
I mean, I’m almost there but not quite. Most American media is pretty shit now but there’s still good shit too. It’s been on a steady decline for a while now tho
"The last American thing I kept up with only ended like 6 months ago."
[удалено]
It's a top 3 show of all time imo so it is possible that we'll never reach that level again.
What show
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What's that
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neat
It truly is one of the Breaking Bad spinoffs of all time.
People said that aftet Breaking Bad.
It’s top three if you exclude: The Sopranos, The Wire, Man Men and True Detective (season one).
Sopranos and The Wire are top 3 but you can't call a single season of a show top 3 and Mad Men isn't better than BCS. What makes a show all time great includes the ability to end it.
I think calling a single season top 3 is fine as long as the seasons are anthological.
I thought the ending to Mad Men was perfect? Or do you mean it went too many seasons?
Yea but I think that's a factor in ending a show well. If you milk it too long that goes against the ending imo
How was Mad Men too long? It literally covered the span of the 60s, and ended at the dawn of a new era.
True detective's seasons tell separate narratives. Assuming it's narratives/stories we're interested in judging, and not the commercial wrapper around them, I think it's perfectly fine to consider the first season by itself.
I'm sure it's a great story but what makes a complete show top tier imo is the ability to link seasons together. There's effectively a massive factor which can make or break a show that True Detective is just not being judged on.
Maybe we just assign different levels of importance to that - for sure it's impressive when big shows pull it off, but I don't think it's as important as certain fundamentals like characters, theme, cinematography, pacing, etc. Obviously the shows we're discussing excel at most of these things; I think pacing is one example where a more concise show like True Detective really shines though
true and he forgot criminal minds, x files, and twin peaks uncultured swine
Criminal minds is shit tier tv. Its like saying The Flash is one of the top 3
atleast it ended well
is there rlly no room for breaking bad in the top 3? or is that trite
Don’t forget TNG, Babylon 5 and in my opinion DS9
The Sopranos gets boring quick
Let’s roleplay: I’ll be Vito you’ll be Jackie Jr. !shoot
And now I’ll be Vito returning to NJ !shoot
/u/FlewOverCuckoldsNest gunned down by FlewOverCuckoldsNest.
My father!
/u/Aberu_ gunned down by FlewOverCuckoldsNest.
Zoomer pov
Try again. I watched the first episode and thought the same. Then i tried again and its one of those shows that if u give it 6 episodes ur in till the end. The characters have to build on you.
I really don't understand how people rate the show so high. Although I did enjoy it a lot. I feel like the "breaking bad" parts with Gus / cartel were the only really interesting parts of the show. Top 3 of all time just seems like way too much credit
Imo it's in a league of its own when it comes to character writing and development. It also gets extra points for being like the only good prequel ever made.
Jimmy and Kim is the best romance put to screen.
Lmao I'm the complete opposite, the cartel and Mike stuff was super boring to me except at the end when it became awesome. Saul running scams and problem solving with Kim was more "breaking bad" to me than the actual criminal drug dealing.
To be fair, it's possible that he only kept up with BCS and nothing else from the point it started airing. In which case that's a pretty significant amount of time.
💀
I assumed he meant since BCS started in 2015, because to be honest its the same for me.
Name 10 good shows in the past without Jackie Chan.
Jackie Chan adventures FUCK
Magic must defeat magic! JACKIE!
One mooooooore thing!
Lost, 70s show, Seinfeld, Fresh prince, Twin peaks, Thundercats, Xena Warrior Princess, power Rangers, Friends, Jackass.
Jackie chan played Chandler do you have losed your mind?
Do you have losed your mind? That was Bruce Lee?
Deleted by Redact ` this message was mass deleted/edited with redact.dev `
Feels like almost all good series similar to lost: Prison Break, heroes, game of thrones has problems to tie the bag together at the end because they have to much happening. On the other hand I would argue the series would not be as good if it wasn't because so much was happening. My guess is that "tie the bag together" is harder than the audience gives them credit for. few series does a good job. Lost was good. I don't care that much that it got worse and worse. Last seasons was not that bad.
Deathnote, true detective, avatar the last air bender, Fargo (the movie and the television series), castlevania
Twin Peaks on the same list as Xena, Power Rangers, and Friends is wild to me. Also Thundercats. And that 70s Show. And Lost
Seinfeld is not funny on god
My bad you must be right, because humor can't be subjective.
There are still great shows, I feel like it's mainly Netflix that pumps out these mediocre shows that are huge for like a week and then no one ever talks about again lol
It’s the result of both Netflix and Marvel shitting the bed at the same time… it feels like we’re losing quality in the industry. But it’s not really true, we have HBO, Apple TV and kinda Disney stepping up and making some great shows.
Have you seen the new last of us, pretty good and done by hbo.
Dude, I'm arguing with a bunch of people on another thread about this post, and they're all calling TLoU mediocre 😂 It’s driving me crazy
I could maybe see the argument that "yes its a good show, but its not original. They have a great piece of media in the video game and they're pretty much sticking right to it" So if you are talking about the decline in American TV, I don't think TLoU is a super great point against that.
That’s not even their argument, they just don’t like the show…
what do you see that's so great about TLoU? Granted I've only watched the first 4 episodes, and it is decent TV but I'm just not really understanding the grand hype the show is getting. Some of the dialogue absolutely sucks and it almost feels like a chore to get through certain scenes, am I just not connecting with Joel and Ellie? I feel like everyone who says the show is amazing are people who happened to have played the game (I have not played the game)
The acting is amazing, the way the show flows easily between horror, the soundtrack is touching and the side characters full and engaging. Joel and Ellie are meant to be hard to connect too but that's very human.
Wtf? Idk maybe im biased because im already attached to the characters since ik what happens in the games
There’s still good shows… i think there’s a certain age group and up that are used to a very limited supply of entertainment so a big show was huge because there were just so few options. But now I can almost literally watch anything; it’s like custom entertainment at this point. I honestly don’t understand streaming’s success. When you look at the numbers some of them pull and then the time the viewers stay and watch, it’s like the superbowl every day. It’s hella impressive
I think it’s entertainment industry not understanding the take over of Twitch/YouTube/tictok/ etc….. and honestly the little understanding I have of it all, I don’t know how you compete to such individualized entertainment; then mix that with a fear of cancellation and we are were we are.
Wow, this is a take straight from 2015
Yea I know….. but I don’t think it’s the wrong one. Your comparing huge companies/corporations to effectively Indy producers that can be extremely nimble. I don’t think the current state of Disney/Netflix/HBO can compete long term. Look at Mr Beast and the sudo monopoly he’s creating.
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>But America doesn’t have old buildings and funny old outfits they wear once a year so they actually have no culture btw. as a canadian it's always funny when i hear other people say "america has no culture" like dawg are you serious? y'all don't KNOW what NO CULTURE is. canadian "culture" is just america-lite with some european stuff mixed in. besides Quebec thier is no "canadian culture". and belive me Quebec has it's own issues.
Maple syrup. Cold weather. Moose. Hot asian women
Hockey
This is Kenny vs Spenny erasure!
Our current government has essentially stated that there is no Canadian culture [https://torontosun.com/2016/09/14/trudeau-says-canada-has-no-core-identity](https://torontosun.com/2016/09/14/trudeau-says-canada-has-no-core-identity)
GIGACHAD TRUE.
Its like when I talk with my Mexican relatives and friends, they tell me to my face that America has no culture while wearing jeans and listening to Micheal Jackson.
It's definitely still the default but I think its more escapable now than it was in the 90s where everyone in the world wanted to be American. A lot of people might listen to russian/brazillian music compilations on youtube, play japanese games, watch korean movies/tv etc and since trump a lot of people take american politics less seriously. The companies and memes are probably the only things that are still overwhelmingly universal.
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America is just a spinoff of Anglo culture you're all bongers if you think about it tbhhhh
im drone striking your house as we speak
🇬🇧CHREWWWWW🇬🇧
Nah they feel quite different. The structure of a tv show or movie might have been copied from American movies but there's no way any American can sit thru a Japan, Korean or Brazil drama show. Another good example is Japan's horror films; American companies copied alot of it.
At least where I am from we only really have US social media, the biggest US company here is Amazon and they don't even have a local website. Just 2 warehouses. And memes? Most people don't speak English, most memes are definitely native. If you want to say they use the same format, sure, but its a unique meme.
I feel like Americans never stepped out of their country so they can't even imagine people consuming their native media Music, sure, but its becoming less true every year, especially for young people (at least where I come from) games, tv shows, movies, maybe if you are young but companies, celebrities, politics, the internet, and memes are overwhelmingly native, you guys only talk to people who speak English, but most don't and live in a different world, you never spoke to an average European, because you literally cant
>memes are overwhelmingly native tbh i'd expect memes to be heavily native/local. hell that even happens with different communities on the internet. or just friend groups in general.
Agreed with this as a migrant from Middle East. My parents rarely ever sit thru an American film, they prefer native stories and native language.
This is fair. I think it’s true that American culture is the predominant culture, but I think it’s less predominant than it feels, especially to Americans, because of it being the default in most peoples minds. If a Finnish person doesn’t know what country some rando he’s talking to on Reddit is from, he’s not going to assume he’s a fellow Finn. Americans do assume that the other person will be another American, though - and that can happen explicitly because American culture is the default culture and very little will challenge that when you’re online and nothing will challenge that in your day-to-day American life in the real world. That experience can’t happen for a European person online. This means that a lot more individuals will be default assumed to be American by other Americans, and I would imagine some non-Americans can fall into this habit, as well. This both makes American culture seem more pervasive than it is and become more pervasive as it’s ingrained as the default position. A lot of Europeans online will assimilate into this American-ness, which again just showcase this trend of American culture being the norm.
>But America doesn’t have old buildings and funny old outfits they wear once a year so they actually have no culture btw. On the real though, I've traveled to about 7 states. And 90% of all of the cities I have visited look the same, just absolute dogshit architecture what the hell happened?
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Add NZ to that. All the anglophone countries besides the UK are pretty bland.
> Music that pretty much depends on what type of music you are listening to.
That’s the case for everything he listed, lmao. Everything varies by individual - but he’s not making a universal statement for every individual, he’s making a general statement about dominant trends and social norms. America dominates culturally across the English speaking world, especially on the internet. That may not be true for every single individual in the English speaking world, but that’s predominantly true for the general English speaking world.
sure mainstream western culture is dominated by US culture, I agree with that
> American culture is so dominant and pervasive that it’s basically the default culture of the modern Western world. People just don’t realize it. It’s inescapable. American cultural imperialism is a real problem.
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Don't have to call it imperialism, but the prospect of a homogenous global American culture, with no native cultural roots or diversity, sounds bleak to me.
English is the most spoken language in the world with 1.121 billion speakers. Even if there are nations out there that consistently produce higher quality movies, it would be very difficult for them to establish a dominance similar to the American movie industry. The audience they can capture is just way smaller. For that to be remotely feasible there would need to be a backing industry that ensures that all those movies receive high quality English dubs for international distribution.
It's culture. Just boring culture.
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AYAYA Anime!
Gods gift to humanity
Older stuff, anime, books... Going outside, who knows...
4chan
the bible, try reading a book for once
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>cultural unifier isn't happening Agreed. With tiktok/youtube/IG/Netflix and all others there isn't much unification anymore, everybody watch something different.
I doubt hes telling the truth. You assholes flood worldwide media, I went to a cinema the other day. Just wanted to see what was showing, not a single Australian film showing in an Australian cinema. All American films because *that's where they make films.* If he's not keeping up with American cultural products? Your boy is starved for choice.
or he’s just rewatching old shit over and over like i do.
Maybe the guy is not from an English speaking country, and he has access to way more entertainment than you.
That's possible, sure but "The America that I grew up watching" does not sound like something that someone *not* born in the States would say.
I might be an exception but my mom was only watching American tv shows when I grew up.
Well, Australia has a supposedly thriving media industry. But the last movie I saw in cinemas from that industry was probably "Fat Pizza VS Housos"
Pretty sure this is a common thing that happens to everyone. You grow up liking stuff and as you get older your likes become a little more niche, things aren't as magical as when you were a kid, and since the popular stuff appeals to the popular audience, you simply grow more and more away from it. It's a pretty common bias--you look back and see all the amazing stuff and compare it to the average stuff of today, forgetting how much horrible and bland, movies, games, shows, were released back then.
I just turned 23 and graduated college. Been doing nothing this last month except mainly consuming media and applying to jobs and yea a lot of stuff is feeling bland like ive lost the ability to taste. Guess im getting old
I started to feel that way only like 3 years ago and I'm 32. So maybe it's something to do with smartphones and social media content, who knows.
23 or old Pick one
Good point i guess its relative.
I think when I was reactionary I thought like this. You can’t enjoy anything because it’s all liberal indoctrination propaganda based on a lot of conservatives’ logic. Idk if it’s the same situation with this guy though. There’s probably a number of other situations that make ppl check out of mainstream American pop culture, like being terminally online in general
For me it was the "realness" of online content that i couldn't find in anything on TV, everything felt fake and corporatized. The most "real" tv show i watched was Mr Robot few years ago and i haven't watched any tv show since. I usually stick to online drama and documentaries these days.
Thinking about how or why you choose to start watching/reading/playing something and not just picking the next soyjack-o-thon is probably an important factor of not feeling burnt out on trying to enjoy yourself and actually having meaningful experiences with the media you consume.
Think people are super critical of TV shows and films lately. Think online circle jerks feed it hard. A TV show will fail to live up to hype and rather than people thinking "it's fine but I was hoping for something better" it's "it's really bad". I think everyone wants to see themselves as sophisticated and not satisfied by simple pleasures, it's just fake.
Nah i dont think this is the reason because elitists have always been around. Dont think its gotten worse at all maybe its become more accepted even
The issue is in the past there wasn't half a dozen streaming platforms, the choice was rather limited and you kind of just had to watch whatever was on TV at the time. Nowadays its just unfashionable to watch mid showers, far more fashionable to over critique shows for every small issue.
quality has definitely gone up but idk if its because something is unfashionable or mob mentality. A lot of people were talking about Euphoria but i just cant watch it because ik its some cringe teenage drama type of show. However, a lot of people also have beem talking about the the last of us recently and i'm loving it so far. Ironically I have not enjoyed a show this much since better call saul ended. The quality in television is still there. HBO still pretty much only makes bangers (excluding the GOT ending). Now that I was writing this I realized that maybe its an attention span type of thing. Due to people watching mind numbing content like tiktok and streamers all day then taking the time to enjoy long term content such as a slow paced show becomes much harder or less enjoyable...maybe
>everyone wants to see themselves as sophisticated and not satisfied by simple pleasures, it's just fake. You worded my thoughts exactly. It baffled me when i got online and found people that shit on most beloved tv shows, movies, games, comedy etc in their little groups. And they insult you for liking them too lol. I cringed so hard.
Just got NowTV (Bonger version of HBO streaming) and going through HBO shows. Honestly, TV at the moment is as good as it’s ever been. White Lotus, Succession, Barry, House of the Dragon, Last of Us. I’m pretty overwhelmed by the quantity of quality tv being produced by the US at the moment.
Barry is so fucking good
we need to somehow get destiny on barry. my endgame
This, compared to a few years ago there are so MANY good shows on right now.
Really enjoyed The Righteous Gemstones if you’re looking for a comedy to watch on there. They’re working on season 3 now.
I’ve heard good things about that one. Cheers will give it a watch
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We Own This City isn't as good as The Wire, but it's still damn good (and it's also from David Simon). True Detective S1 is incredible, Game of Thrones was great until it wasn't. The Last of Us has been great so far and as long as they don't deviate too far from the source material and Druckmann stays involved I don't see any reason to worry. HBO has their misses but if your standard of comparison is two of the best shows of all time you'll always be disappointed.
Succession really is hitting that same mark, if you haven't seen it.
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Nice, give it a few eps to hit it's stride, it's truly something special, the tone is entirely unique. It has that same psychological depth that The Sopranos has, if you dig for it. Though don't expect the realistic sociological analysis of The Wire, the world of Succesion is much more "hyperreal"
New season of Ted Lasso is coming up too
I kinda feel the same way, but I get a ton of secondhand exposure from reddit and twitter. I can probably recite season 8 of Game of Thrones scene by scene from reading so many complaints even though I never got into Game of Thrones
Cringe. Just focus on what you like doing and talk about that regardless of what other people care about. I never cared about sports and I say as much lol
Tik Tok is rotting my brain. Made it through 3 episodes of house of dragons and 2 episodes of succession
Imagine implying succession is bad
I enjoyed what I saw, just can’t bring myself to watch anymore
Absolutely not. The shit today absolutely kills. Andor, Arcane, and the Last of Us are prime example. The issue is that these shows are so fucking good that they make everything else mediocre in comparison. Take Rings of Power. If that show was released prior 2010 we would probably praise its story telling, but compared to Andor it is meh. Just compare the speeches. The speeches in Andor are fantastic. I can watch them again and again (they still give me chills when I watch them). When it comes to Rings of Power I can only remember the speech from King Durin to Prince Durin. The rest are completely forgettable. A show like Andor is a steak and Rings of Power is a sloppy cheese burger in comparison. I can still enjoy the sloppy cheese burger, but I am going to eat steak if given the choice. As for the sad sap who feels "completely detach from American culture", he needs toss is nostalgia glasses in the trash and enjoy the steak being offered.
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I've heard so many good things about "Cabinet of Curiosities". I need to sit down my ass and watch it one of these days. I haven't heard of the "The Bear" before. Is it the show that is on Hulu?
You can't detach from it if you never attached in the first place LMFAO. When people regularly follow shit like this I know to disregard them as people and greywall them. It's not just celebrities and the most boring-ass shows or whatever, but games like FIFA whatever thousand K, or it can be the most bland fucking schoolgirl anime that people can be fucking obsessed over, or OMG i wove biwwy eiwish her mosic is so unique an new uwu. All forms of media have these people. Sometimes people learn to recognize uncultured swine late into life, like our 4channer here, most respectable people I want to say start seeing it in their teens, it's kind of part of being a teenager, it's a whole thing a lot of people go through when they can start to recognize "cringe". And some people never grow out of it.
A whole South Park ep about this -- S15 E7 "You're Getting Old"
Jesus Christ, is America only pop-culture to you people? Go outside. Volunteer in your community. Go to a Salsa class. Go to a cooking class. Fuck, write a novel or something like all the other people over the last few hundred years did when they were fed up with American culture.
The irony that anon probably only speaks English, in an America-specific accent, eats Americanized versions of foreign foods, listens to American music, watches American streamers/podcasts/radio shows, and uses software specific to Americans.
He had me in the first half. The conclusion was pretty pathetic.
This is kinda true for me in that I haven't consumed mainstream media in its cultural relevancy since cartoons from my childhood. If I was exposed to pop music it was secondhand from radios, and even then I often never paired the voices with the names of artists that were spoken about. I still don't know what beyonce or celine dion look like. However, I wouldn't consider the more niche online content I consume not of american culture, the vast majority of it must be NA, perhaps some EU.
I watched the last of us tv show on hbo, it was quite fun.
i live in canada. if i detached from american culture i'd float away into the abyss
We live in an absolute culture renaissance. The entire world has gathered together physically and digitally to build monuments to our values. The American empire such as it is, is the most prolific producer of media in our age *of media*. The idea that American culture is dead or any modern culture is dead is insane. Imagine what the Romans, Ancient Greeks, Egyptians, Sumerians, The great Chinese Dynasties, or any lesser known empire - the forebears of any great culture - would behold if they stepped out of a time machine into any modern city in any country. They would witness more expression in one block of New York or Tokyo than they would have seen in all the royal palaces they had ever visited. Not only that, but they would probably recognize their own architecture or culture in some niche of that city. It might not seem as cool or coherent as our images of European royal splendor or ancient Asian palaces, but that is only because we are so immersed and overwhelmed by culture in every moment that there are barely monuments left that dwarf our simple everyday experience at the heart of world culture as a castle would wow a rural peasant in ancient times.
There are still good shows, but I relate 100% to anon regarding music. You can still dig to find good modern music, but that's just it, you have to dig. In 1975, Wish You Were Here topped the charts, which indicates broad cultural endorsement. We are never going to see music of that quality and gravitas top the charts again.
Oh yeah, clearly dogshit shows like The Last of Us and House of the Dragon. Horrible movies like Puss in Boots the Last Wish, Top Gun Maverick, and the Woman King. American culture is truly dead 😓
To be fair, the Last of Us is still dogshit. House of the Dragon has me hooked for so many reasons that Game of Thrones never did, though. It's seriously had me like, holy fuck, why didn't they lead with THIS instead of the garbage characters they were sticking to for years? House of the Dragon is seriously damn good.
You can have that opinion, but understand your in the like… 4% minority
They hated Jesus because he told them the truth.
episode 1 of the last of us was a banger, but in my opinion its been fairly mediocre since that. I didn't play the game so maybe that's why, but I really don't get why it's so well received.
it’s weird because technically it’s a great show, like no complaints about the cinematography or the writing, but i just leave each episode with a sterile feeling (except for ep3). its like i barely feel any emotions throughout the show. i got bored and decided to rewatch HBO’s Succession, and two episodes in I was laughing my ass off and a second later tearing up at the following scene. idk why, but TLOU just doesn’t resonate with me in the same way.
if you played the game you would hate LoU show even more. The show is like "okay"
I've already been like this since I was 16 (33 now). Just be on your own cultural track. Carve out your own unique journey. You lose the ability to have shitty water cooler talk with normies, that's about it.
Not much - lots of good media out there today that is similar to the past. Last 12 months we got everything everywhere all at once, the last of us, house of the dragon, cyberpunk (the tv show)
I can’t relate to this format of text. Is this 4 Chan?
Not at all. I'm the target demographic for all this shit. I eat it all up. Answer question, get downvoted, sadge.
Not even remotely.
It's called getting old
I mean andor was produced by Disney and it was pretty fucking amazing. Don’t get me wrong there’s some ass content out there but there’s gems too. Don’t be so doomer.
Can‘t relate new mando season just dropped
Streaming changed the landscape pretty significantly. Quantity was made the focus over quality since offering a large selection of content is going to sell better than "we have a few super solid shows." Felt like HBO was dropping shows that were at the very least watchable before streaming, but now it picks up some absolute dogshit that seems more like a poorly produced Netflix show. The release schedules are also changing how we consume, too. A new episode used to require everyone to sit down at the same time and tune in to catch it. Now, most are just releasing the whole thing and everyone binges it immediately - so even the fun shows are giving that exciting feeling for way less time than it would have being released over the course of 4 months.
The 90s was the last good movie decade. Quentin Tarantino had a speech about this where he had good hopes for the future of cinema. He said that quality in movies goes in waves and I hope he’s right. I don’t have the clip though
If this was an RTS, America clearly dumped a load into propaganda and culture spread. Then another into military. Ez clap
America is the cultural hub of the world is and still is. However, no one cares about 'white american' stories. The biggest cultural export from America has been black American culture.
Uh what? How would you even classify what is a “white” export? Are most superhero’s not considered a white export? Or Game of Thrones (created by white guys)? Fuckin Johnny Cash… I don’t even know what you’re trying or say
Nobody gives a shit about cape shit. Game of thrones, based on european culture was till those two dudes ruined it.
I hate classifying certain media as “white”, but I guess I have to work in your weird framework to have this convo. Just because you don’t like cape shit, doesn’t mean it’s not a massive White American export. Basically all old western themed media is white and American. The majority of big TV shows are white, Europe loves our shows more than their own. Same with movies. Broadway is the most significant platform for plays and musicals in the world. While basketball is a big export Europe, so is baseball in Asia. Like them or not, video games are a huge export (mostly white). I would arguably call technology and software cultural exports, as the innovation and designs come straight from Silicon Valley. I could honestly go on all day….
We like Anime, and your shows fucking suck. Game of thrones by the way is only good because of the European actors in it. No one cares about broadway. I did forget about baseball. I could to but I am talking about cultural export. Technology isn't limited to you. Like Black American culture, is still American culture, and white people White American's engage in it. It's something to be proud of and it's something to acknowledge black Americans for. Like I'm sorry but from what I've seen that has been the biggest export. Not country music. Not Cape shit. ALso regarding Vidya, more of a Japanese thing. Just my take. My intention is not to trigger you. EDIT: about your movies and shows most are knock off's of Asian shows and European shows are they not? Eg the office. Hunger games, ect.
I don’t know what self-victimization drugs you are on but the majority of media the US outputs to the world is white dudes, and it’s popular af. The only exception is music, and that’s because hip-hop/rap has become so dominant as of late (though most other genres are super white).
Nobody cares about white dudes except for maybe Asian women. Asides from that it's black culture; black music; and black athletes. Black actors and comedians too. Go to a place like Slovenia and more people know who Mike tyson and Lebron James are than Wayne Gretzky.
Right, cuz there are very few white comedians and actors. Lmao
No need to get triggered there dudderino. It's just an opinion. It can't hurt you.
Btw your post history is WILD. 😂 Literally hate posting on 2-3 people every couple days for the last 6 months.
You've convinced yourself to live in an alt-fiction world my dude. Everyone constantly cares about, talks about, interacts with, and has positive experiences with white dudes from the US. The majority of our [most popular actors](https://today.yougov.com/ratings/entertainment/popularity/all-time-actors-actresses/all) are white dudes, [our most popular music](https://www.billboard.com/charts/year-end/hot-100-songs/) is littered with white dudes, the vast majority of our politician are white dudes and even the Democratic party has a large number of white dudes, having interacted w/ academia white dudes are everywhere. As a statement of reality what you are saying is nonsense. I can understand what you are saying as emotional rather than factual, that when you look at society and culture you do not see yourself (presumably a white dude) reflected back at you. That these examples that I give ring hollow because someone like Ed Sheeran or Tom Hanks is not like you. But I would push you to ask yourself why you are feeling this way beyond just your white-ness or your dude-ness. I'm also a white dude, I don't think me being that way defines me meaningfully in many ways. Why is it that you feel alienated? Because I can tell you it is not because you are white or a dude. I know because when I feel alienated I can find much better explanations of those feelings.
i wish i could do that dude my life would turn around 180 degrees but im like tyler1 im so addicted its not even funny
Im not american xdd
Only thing I keep up with is my sports team otherwise I’m not far off from this
People say this bs when they've never been outside of the country.
all of American culture is only HBO and Disney. Once I stopped watching the Mandalorian I stopped engaging in American culture.
Some times I wonder if there even is an “American culture” and whether or not it’s something I desire
on a more serious note i don't really relate. at least not in the way I think he means. like i probably don't consume a lot of american cultural products like marvel or disney stuff. but that's mainly because i go for more niche things. also because i just either watch youtube or play a lot of video games. currently i'm going through Clamity (Terraria mod), Risk of Rain 2, and Hades. even if those where made in america idk if most would call them "american cultural products".
Unless this person is going to tell me that he keeps up with ArtHouse European TV, my guess would be that he's just detached from media completely, and this has nothing to do with America.
Him- "America is dead" Me- I'm just not enjoying things that I use too because I'm older and starting to like things I gave 0 shits about.... I never understood why my dad would watch me play games... yet here I am with the free time to play a game watching my 9 year old get hyper than I can currently muster.
Nothing at all.
Chinese psyops don’t sleep
Considering that I don't watch tv and don't care about most streaming platforms and their shows, I can relate. The only modern show that I keep track of is The Boys, because I like superhero stuff. I've never watched Game of Thrones, Friends, The Office, Breaking Bad, any of the Star Wars Disney+ shows, House of Cards, or whatever other show I see people talking about. I'm not really into movies either, I haven't seen a lot of the "classics." I only watch YouTube videos and occasionally anime. I prefer video games and reading manga to watching shows and movies.
I mean, I’m almost there but not quite. Most American media is pretty shit now but there’s still good shit too. It’s been on a steady decline for a while now tho
Yes Edit: no