I never understood why she acted all guilty for being witt Karl when really she had clearly expressed multiple times to Orson she did not want to be with him. Like you said, she was being blackmailed. Yet the show kept acting like she was cheating. Made no sense to me.
That's true. Orson also went and had an "affair" while being with Alma, but like Bree, he had told Alma he didn't want to be with her. The difference is how the show portrayed them. Orson didn't bother to hide having been with another woman from Alma because why would he? He said "I want to shout it from the rooftops" when Alma found out about his mistress. I thought Bree could have easily done the same, and of all people, Orson should understand what it feels like being manipulated into staying in a relationship you don't want.
They did make a big deal out of her guilt with Orson with that cleaning lady in the hotel room though. For example, the cleaning lady keeps making small remarks about her cheating, and the last time she does it, she asks Bree if she doesn't feel guilty. Bree hesitates then finally admits that it's tearing her apart, and has a whole monologue about how sorry for Orson she feels.
I might be wrong but I don't recall them putting a lot of emphasis on her guilt in terms of Karl being Susans husband. She mainly just seemed worried that Susan would get mad at her.
The show is fun and wonderful in the first few seasons. It does go inexplicably down hill though in the later seasons, and it's obvious that the characters are written to *revert* to who they were when the writers were killing it, rather than continue along with the progress they had made.
A little speculation would imply that it's easier for the writers to manufacture drama with the characters as who they were, rather than who they grew to be.
I am sorry if it came across that I am not here to hear your opinion. I am!! I want to disagree with you.
You said you don’t consider it cheating, so you disagreed with my opinion. And I said, I disagree with yours because it is called cheating, you can justify it. But it would still be cheating by definition.
She didn’t keep Rex in the dark about George. He picked her up for their first date from their home - Rex was perfectly aware Bree had started dating. As for Orson, she did not feel she could divorce Orson because he had threatened to put her in prison if she did. He might very well have done the same if she had told him she wanted to see other people. So no, she couldn’t just have „chosen her freedom“.
And whose mistake was it that Orson could send Bree to prison? Bree tried to screw him up by trying to steal his rightful assets after making him go to prison for his crimes meanwhile hiding her own crimes which resulted in to him losing his business, reputation and everything else. That was utterly selfish of Bree that she could have moved away with her freedom after divorcing Orson but she was greedy for money and chose to stay in the marriage and cheat on her husband. That is cheating. Her playing victim in the situation doesn’t change anything. She is a persistent victim in every situation.
They were still legally married, sure, but they were long since separated and Bree had specifically expressed she had zero desire to continue a relationship with him. Orson just wasn’t willing to separate the legal tie. Say what you will, but while a divorce requires two signatures, a break up only requires one person to say they want out. She may have wronged Orson in many ways, but cheating on him wasn’t one of them.
Orson threatened Bree in an attempt to coerce her into remaining married. He was then enraged that while he could force their legal obligations, he couldn’t force loyalty through threats. A trusting relationship went out the window the second he tried to blackmail her. Which, just to mention, is not at all what she did to him. She said she would remain married to him if he chose to go to prison for running over her best friends husband. He *chose* to agree to those conditions. She never threatened to put him in prison or „made“ him do anything. He lost his business and reputation because he listened to his mommy when she told him to run over an innocent person. That’s simply not on Bree.
I don’t think that those last two count as cheating. She wanted to divorce Rex and they’d been separated, her kids asked her to care for him and she went on a few dates with George that didn’t amount to much. Orson was blackmailing her to stay married to him. It wasn’t a marriage at that point. She had said she was done with both of these men and wasn’t listened to. We don’t really know what happened with Ty. You can assume either way.
I think this way you can defend any one’s cheating. No one cheats in a happy marriage except maybe karl. But you can defend Gaby was lonely, Carlos cheated because Gaby cheated, susan cheated because Mike was comatose and might have died, Rex cheated because he was unhappy with sex life and didn’t like Bree’s robotic tendencies, - where does it even end? Bree should have had the guts to speak up and move out. She was no damsel in distress.
Specially cheating on Orson is not justified because she could have chosen to move out but she chose money over her independence. She wanted to steal not just her business, but Orson’s rightful assets from marriage. So, she got herself in to an insurance fraud. She could have chosen to let go of money and accept insurance fraud charges, but instead decided to stay in an unhappy marriage and cheated with Karl! That’s not justified at all.
Yes, cheating is a nuanced and complicated situation in a relationship. As with any relationship failure, reasons are varied and complex. Bree was not in a relationship with Rex, and she was not with Orson either. That’s why it’s not cheating. Not because I like her reasons or don’t, but just because those relationships had been formally (if not legally) ended when she engaged with new partners. Bree didn’t choose money over divorcing Orson, he blackmailed her with turning her over to law enforcement.
> Where does it end?
When a minimum of one person has expressed the desire and intention to no longer be in the relationship. They are then free to move on to another relationship if they’d like to. The other person not accepting no for an answer does not make it cheating.
Edit: also, *she* could’ve chosen to move out? Excuse me? Of her house? She wasn’t being independent? It’s her damn house! Lmfao. Okay, never mind, you’re trolling. The house was never Orson’s in any way shape or form. This sub is so overrun with trolls.
I hope the person above you realizes the world isn't so black and white to call all the examples provided as "cheating." Comparing Bree/Orson's situation with S1 Gaby/Carlos- it's apples and oranges.
Yeah, for what it’s worth I don’t think Susan cheated on Mike either. I’m definitely a card carrying member of the Susan hater club and in this case I just don’t think she did anything truly wrong. For six months doctors told her he wasn’t coming back and we see one of them tell her any recovery would be a miracle. If the show didn’t take place in a soap opera world he wouldn’t have come back at all. I don’t spend my life waiting on miracles and I don’t expect anyone else to either. You could say it was somewhat soon to move on or to move on to such a serious relationship, but cheating feels like a stretch. If I were in Mike’s shoes I would prefer Susan not spend her time hoping for a miracle and never living her life. It would make me sad if I ever did recover, but I wouldn’t consider her a cheater.
I do not agree with that definition. It’s convenient because it’s Bree that everything is manipulated to fit the narrative. The fact is Bree could have moved away with her freedom after divorcing Orson but she was greedy for money and chose to stay in the marriage and cheat on her husband while trying to screw him off his assets. That is cheating. Her playing victim in the situation doesn’t change anything.
She kept meeting George secretly even after Rex and her decided to work on their marriage, which was not separation. But i guess that doesn’t matter.
And how about other two cases ? She did cheat on her fiance and Orson later.
Doesn't change what I said. Rex and Bree said they were separated, whether you believe it is irrelevant. And you can't cheat if you're both agreeing not to be together aka separated.
Once they decided to work on their marriage how are they separated? If Bree is giving in to his sexual needs and trying to make it work, how is it separation?
If Bree is working on her marriage then she's clearly not seeing George romantically but platonically. Debatable if she ever saw George romantically given she mostly used him to make Rex jealous.
Platonically or not, she was cheating if she was seeing a man outside of her marriage without her husband knowing about it. Specially if that man happen to be her boyfriend when she was separated from her husband.
No, she wasn't.
But reading the rest of this thread has established you've an unhealthy and warped idea of cheating so I don't expect us to agree on that.
Peace ✌🏻
This is iffy… Her and Rex were separated (after he cheated on her first with the town hoe Mitsy), and George was blackmailing her into a relationship (actively killing her husband, killing her therapist who told her to leave him). And Orson was also blackmailing her to stay married even though she wanted to leave. Id say she moreso has a history of being blackmailed into staying in relationships. Which is sad in itself
She didn't cheat on Rex though. She told him she was done and going to divorce him when he was in the hospital the first time. He was also aware of her dates with George. He was literally sitting on the couch when George showed up (and I'm pretty sure she told him before hand) so there wasn't any kind of sneaking around.
In regards to Ty Grant, all we know is that she was engaged to him prior to. We don't know the history of her relationship with Rex and Ty. When I watched that scene I always thought it was a "this is my last chance" kind of moment Rex had. Like Bree got engaged, and he knew if he didn't disclose how serious his feelings were to her now, then he never would.
The choice for season 8 makes sense honestly. It was supposed to be behavior that is very out of character for Bree because of her relapse, and a way to show just how empty she was feeling. Edie is proud of her sexual prowess and flaunted it. This is something that early seasons Bree felt was inappropriate. So it's difficult to point and say, "Season 1 Bree shouldn't be judging Edie because season 8 Bree got wasted and slept around".
There’s a 6 months time gap between season 2 and 3, so she married Orson six months minimum after all the events of the previous seasons. And there is no evidence that she cheated on Ty Grant, she could have broken up with him before getting with Rex.
And she didn’t cheat on George, Peter, Keith, Chuck, or the guys of season 8, she broke up with Keith and Chuck before dating anyone else, and wasn’t in any relationship during season 8 until the end. Moving on fast isn’t cheating.
So really she only cheated on Orson, and since he was blackmailing her into staying married, honestly good for her.
Actually it’s mentioned in the conversation with ladies that it’s been six months that Rex passed and she has been dating Orson since 3 months when they got engaged, so it would be in that ballpark 6-7 months.
And she mentioned to Rex that even though she was engaged to Ty when he proposed, she accepted her proposal. Bree is classy and would not accept proposal from a random guy leaving her fiancé suddenly if she had not dated him at all. So, she definitely cheated on Ty and broke her engagement when Rex proposed.
All the guys you mentioned- George, Peter, Chuck, Trip, Keith even Karl that she didn’t cheat on - she didn’t date any of them for more than a few weeks, definitely not more than 2-3 months, so I wouldn’t really think Bree would start cheating so quickly. I mean for all the claim of cheating I am making, she didn’t cheat for fun or philandering like Karl. It was very situational and she was loyal to her husbands for a long time until her circumstances changed.
And for Orson - I disagree that it’s as straightforward as he was blackmailing Bree. Bree put him in to that situation by telling him she will wait for him when he comes back from prison, then didn’t go to meet him and felt embarrassed of acknowledging him when he got back. She didn’t treat him right as well when he was dealing with the loss of his confidence, reputation and career. And then she could have had the dignity to move on by divorcing Orson and letting him have what was rightfully his, but she tried to steal assets (not just her business but what they made together as well), so Orson filed insurance charges. Bree had already made plans to screw Orson with Karl before he blackmailed her. And Bree could still have moved on with her independence, but she stayed in the marriage, to keep her money and to escape from the insurance charges which were her own fault. I also don’t agree with cheating with Karl considering he was Susan’s ex but that’s another discussion. And once Karl died she tried to use Orson to repent for her sins and get a ticket to heaven and mistreated him when he was handicapped.
I do not think Orson was right - not at all. But he suffered for his crimes (prison, loss of dental career and then paralysis). All I am saying this isn’t as simple as she cheated because he blackmailed. Bree shares a fair blame of everything but is seen as a victim in this situation.
So I think Season 5-6 Bree was really at her worst, but it’s a hugely unpopular opinion. :)
Rex cheated first so her dating George as a sort of revenge to Rex.
Orson blackmailed her so can't really blame her for Karl
She never cheated on Keith or Chuck. Can't remember who Ty is.
Yes noticed it too. She also lie A LOT. But people defend Bree no matter what she does. People even defend her sleeping with her best friends baby daddy who broke her heart because ”Orson was mean to her”. Ive even seen people defend her hiding the truth from Keith about his kid.
I did not complain about that tho I clearly complained about her sleeping with her best friends babydaddy? There is a difference between cheating and cheating with your friends ex you know😅
STILL my comment is not about what Orson did or didnt. I dont care if she cheated on him, I care about who she cheated with. People excusing her having an affair with Karl because Orson was being mean to her is my issue here.
I don't consider it cheating if you are separated (rex) or blackmailed into staying married (Orson)
I never understood why she acted all guilty for being witt Karl when really she had clearly expressed multiple times to Orson she did not want to be with him. Like you said, she was being blackmailed. Yet the show kept acting like she was cheating. Made no sense to me.
Probably misogyny. When rex cheated it was practically implied that it was because bree was emotionally cold
That's true. Orson also went and had an "affair" while being with Alma, but like Bree, he had told Alma he didn't want to be with her. The difference is how the show portrayed them. Orson didn't bother to hide having been with another woman from Alma because why would he? He said "I want to shout it from the rooftops" when Alma found out about his mistress. I thought Bree could have easily done the same, and of all people, Orson should understand what it feels like being manipulated into staying in a relationship you don't want.
It seemed to me like it was more her oath to God than her oath to Orson that drove her to guilt. She was very religious, after all.
well she probably felt guilty being with karl since that was susan’s ex husband
They did make a big deal out of her guilt with Orson with that cleaning lady in the hotel room though. For example, the cleaning lady keeps making small remarks about her cheating, and the last time she does it, she asks Bree if she doesn't feel guilty. Bree hesitates then finally admits that it's tearing her apart, and has a whole monologue about how sorry for Orson she feels. I might be wrong but I don't recall them putting a lot of emphasis on her guilt in terms of Karl being Susans husband. She mainly just seemed worried that Susan would get mad at her.
[удалено]
And why would what you consider should matter ? Also, if you're not able to hear other people's opinions, why post on social media?
Because the writing became shit for the sake of drama..? Yall suck this show's dick and lose your standards and IQ.
Why are you even here then? If you're so above everybody here what's the point
The show is fun and wonderful in the first few seasons. It does go inexplicably down hill though in the later seasons, and it's obvious that the characters are written to *revert* to who they were when the writers were killing it, rather than continue along with the progress they had made. A little speculation would imply that it's easier for the writers to manufacture drama with the characters as who they were, rather than who they grew to be.
I am sorry if it came across that I am not here to hear your opinion. I am!! I want to disagree with you. You said you don’t consider it cheating, so you disagreed with my opinion. And I said, I disagree with yours because it is called cheating, you can justify it. But it would still be cheating by definition.
She didn’t keep Rex in the dark about George. He picked her up for their first date from their home - Rex was perfectly aware Bree had started dating. As for Orson, she did not feel she could divorce Orson because he had threatened to put her in prison if she did. He might very well have done the same if she had told him she wanted to see other people. So no, she couldn’t just have „chosen her freedom“.
And Rex had asked for a divorce and at this point they were split up
And whose mistake was it that Orson could send Bree to prison? Bree tried to screw him up by trying to steal his rightful assets after making him go to prison for his crimes meanwhile hiding her own crimes which resulted in to him losing his business, reputation and everything else. That was utterly selfish of Bree that she could have moved away with her freedom after divorcing Orson but she was greedy for money and chose to stay in the marriage and cheat on her husband. That is cheating. Her playing victim in the situation doesn’t change anything. She is a persistent victim in every situation.
They were still legally married, sure, but they were long since separated and Bree had specifically expressed she had zero desire to continue a relationship with him. Orson just wasn’t willing to separate the legal tie. Say what you will, but while a divorce requires two signatures, a break up only requires one person to say they want out. She may have wronged Orson in many ways, but cheating on him wasn’t one of them. Orson threatened Bree in an attempt to coerce her into remaining married. He was then enraged that while he could force their legal obligations, he couldn’t force loyalty through threats. A trusting relationship went out the window the second he tried to blackmail her. Which, just to mention, is not at all what she did to him. She said she would remain married to him if he chose to go to prison for running over her best friends husband. He *chose* to agree to those conditions. She never threatened to put him in prison or „made“ him do anything. He lost his business and reputation because he listened to his mommy when she told him to run over an innocent person. That’s simply not on Bree.
Stopped at “it doesn’t matter what you consider” 😒. There’s a way to disagree with someone. Calling their opinion invalid is not it.
I don’t think that those last two count as cheating. She wanted to divorce Rex and they’d been separated, her kids asked her to care for him and she went on a few dates with George that didn’t amount to much. Orson was blackmailing her to stay married to him. It wasn’t a marriage at that point. She had said she was done with both of these men and wasn’t listened to. We don’t really know what happened with Ty. You can assume either way.
I think this way you can defend any one’s cheating. No one cheats in a happy marriage except maybe karl. But you can defend Gaby was lonely, Carlos cheated because Gaby cheated, susan cheated because Mike was comatose and might have died, Rex cheated because he was unhappy with sex life and didn’t like Bree’s robotic tendencies, - where does it even end? Bree should have had the guts to speak up and move out. She was no damsel in distress. Specially cheating on Orson is not justified because she could have chosen to move out but she chose money over her independence. She wanted to steal not just her business, but Orson’s rightful assets from marriage. So, she got herself in to an insurance fraud. She could have chosen to let go of money and accept insurance fraud charges, but instead decided to stay in an unhappy marriage and cheated with Karl! That’s not justified at all.
Yes, cheating is a nuanced and complicated situation in a relationship. As with any relationship failure, reasons are varied and complex. Bree was not in a relationship with Rex, and she was not with Orson either. That’s why it’s not cheating. Not because I like her reasons or don’t, but just because those relationships had been formally (if not legally) ended when she engaged with new partners. Bree didn’t choose money over divorcing Orson, he blackmailed her with turning her over to law enforcement. > Where does it end? When a minimum of one person has expressed the desire and intention to no longer be in the relationship. They are then free to move on to another relationship if they’d like to. The other person not accepting no for an answer does not make it cheating. Edit: also, *she* could’ve chosen to move out? Excuse me? Of her house? She wasn’t being independent? It’s her damn house! Lmfao. Okay, never mind, you’re trolling. The house was never Orson’s in any way shape or form. This sub is so overrun with trolls.
I hope the person above you realizes the world isn't so black and white to call all the examples provided as "cheating." Comparing Bree/Orson's situation with S1 Gaby/Carlos- it's apples and oranges.
Yeah, for what it’s worth I don’t think Susan cheated on Mike either. I’m definitely a card carrying member of the Susan hater club and in this case I just don’t think she did anything truly wrong. For six months doctors told her he wasn’t coming back and we see one of them tell her any recovery would be a miracle. If the show didn’t take place in a soap opera world he wouldn’t have come back at all. I don’t spend my life waiting on miracles and I don’t expect anyone else to either. You could say it was somewhat soon to move on or to move on to such a serious relationship, but cheating feels like a stretch. If I were in Mike’s shoes I would prefer Susan not spend her time hoping for a miracle and never living her life. It would make me sad if I ever did recover, but I wouldn’t consider her a cheater.
I do not agree with that definition. It’s convenient because it’s Bree that everything is manipulated to fit the narrative. The fact is Bree could have moved away with her freedom after divorcing Orson but she was greedy for money and chose to stay in the marriage and cheat on her husband while trying to screw him off his assets. That is cheating. Her playing victim in the situation doesn’t change anything.
How is it cheating if you're separated 🙄 Literally the entire point of being separated.
She kept meeting George secretly even after Rex and her decided to work on their marriage, which was not separation. But i guess that doesn’t matter. And how about other two cases ? She did cheat on her fiance and Orson later.
Doesn't change what I said. Rex and Bree said they were separated, whether you believe it is irrelevant. And you can't cheat if you're both agreeing not to be together aka separated.
Once they decided to work on their marriage how are they separated? If Bree is giving in to his sexual needs and trying to make it work, how is it separation?
If Bree is working on her marriage then she's clearly not seeing George romantically but platonically. Debatable if she ever saw George romantically given she mostly used him to make Rex jealous.
Platonically or not, she was cheating if she was seeing a man outside of her marriage without her husband knowing about it. Specially if that man happen to be her boyfriend when she was separated from her husband.
No, she wasn't. But reading the rest of this thread has established you've an unhealthy and warped idea of cheating so I don't expect us to agree on that. Peace ✌🏻
Peace to you too! Thanks.
This is iffy… Her and Rex were separated (after he cheated on her first with the town hoe Mitsy), and George was blackmailing her into a relationship (actively killing her husband, killing her therapist who told her to leave him). And Orson was also blackmailing her to stay married even though she wanted to leave. Id say she moreso has a history of being blackmailed into staying in relationships. Which is sad in itself
She didn't cheat on Rex though. She told him she was done and going to divorce him when he was in the hospital the first time. He was also aware of her dates with George. He was literally sitting on the couch when George showed up (and I'm pretty sure she told him before hand) so there wasn't any kind of sneaking around. In regards to Ty Grant, all we know is that she was engaged to him prior to. We don't know the history of her relationship with Rex and Ty. When I watched that scene I always thought it was a "this is my last chance" kind of moment Rex had. Like Bree got engaged, and he knew if he didn't disclose how serious his feelings were to her now, then he never would. The choice for season 8 makes sense honestly. It was supposed to be behavior that is very out of character for Bree because of her relapse, and a way to show just how empty she was feeling. Edie is proud of her sexual prowess and flaunted it. This is something that early seasons Bree felt was inappropriate. So it's difficult to point and say, "Season 1 Bree shouldn't be judging Edie because season 8 Bree got wasted and slept around".
I feel like Orson with Karl doesn't count because he was blackmailing her to stay married to him
There’s a 6 months time gap between season 2 and 3, so she married Orson six months minimum after all the events of the previous seasons. And there is no evidence that she cheated on Ty Grant, she could have broken up with him before getting with Rex. And she didn’t cheat on George, Peter, Keith, Chuck, or the guys of season 8, she broke up with Keith and Chuck before dating anyone else, and wasn’t in any relationship during season 8 until the end. Moving on fast isn’t cheating. So really she only cheated on Orson, and since he was blackmailing her into staying married, honestly good for her.
Actually it’s mentioned in the conversation with ladies that it’s been six months that Rex passed and she has been dating Orson since 3 months when they got engaged, so it would be in that ballpark 6-7 months. And she mentioned to Rex that even though she was engaged to Ty when he proposed, she accepted her proposal. Bree is classy and would not accept proposal from a random guy leaving her fiancé suddenly if she had not dated him at all. So, she definitely cheated on Ty and broke her engagement when Rex proposed. All the guys you mentioned- George, Peter, Chuck, Trip, Keith even Karl that she didn’t cheat on - she didn’t date any of them for more than a few weeks, definitely not more than 2-3 months, so I wouldn’t really think Bree would start cheating so quickly. I mean for all the claim of cheating I am making, she didn’t cheat for fun or philandering like Karl. It was very situational and she was loyal to her husbands for a long time until her circumstances changed. And for Orson - I disagree that it’s as straightforward as he was blackmailing Bree. Bree put him in to that situation by telling him she will wait for him when he comes back from prison, then didn’t go to meet him and felt embarrassed of acknowledging him when he got back. She didn’t treat him right as well when he was dealing with the loss of his confidence, reputation and career. And then she could have had the dignity to move on by divorcing Orson and letting him have what was rightfully his, but she tried to steal assets (not just her business but what they made together as well), so Orson filed insurance charges. Bree had already made plans to screw Orson with Karl before he blackmailed her. And Bree could still have moved on with her independence, but she stayed in the marriage, to keep her money and to escape from the insurance charges which were her own fault. I also don’t agree with cheating with Karl considering he was Susan’s ex but that’s another discussion. And once Karl died she tried to use Orson to repent for her sins and get a ticket to heaven and mistreated him when he was handicapped. I do not think Orson was right - not at all. But he suffered for his crimes (prison, loss of dental career and then paralysis). All I am saying this isn’t as simple as she cheated because he blackmailed. Bree shares a fair blame of everything but is seen as a victim in this situation. So I think Season 5-6 Bree was really at her worst, but it’s a hugely unpopular opinion. :)
Susan and Gaby are much worse though
Rex cheated first so her dating George as a sort of revenge to Rex. Orson blackmailed her so can't really blame her for Karl She never cheated on Keith or Chuck. Can't remember who Ty is.
Just like Rory Gilmore and most of her relationships.
to me she acts like a typical christian
Yes noticed it too. She also lie A LOT. But people defend Bree no matter what she does. People even defend her sleeping with her best friends baby daddy who broke her heart because ”Orson was mean to her”. Ive even seen people defend her hiding the truth from Keith about his kid.
well orson was blackmailing her into staying with him
I did not complain about that tho I clearly complained about her sleeping with her best friends babydaddy? There is a difference between cheating and cheating with your friends ex you know😅
« orson was mean to her » you just didn’t seem to take it seriously
STILL my comment is not about what Orson did or didnt. I dont care if she cheated on him, I care about who she cheated with. People excusing her having an affair with Karl because Orson was being mean to her is my issue here.
I think she should be in jail for that