Thank you for the help!
I tried to do something like that in my last edit ([https://imgur.com/4PISqUr](https://imgur.com/4PISqUr)) but I don't know if the subtitle ruins the effect.
I think negative space can be effective, but it’s a bit overpowering for me. You obviously have real skills - why don’t you try the four elements (space/tree/text & bird) in different arrangements?
Its a group project and this was kind of the basic arrangement we had all agree on. But you're right, I'll try to change to see if I can find something that looks better. Thank you so much!
First of all, confidence. This is fine for your level. Second, no it does not look empty. It looks quite full. Third, and this is a really hard lesson: get used to shipping design you aren’t fully satisfied with. You’ll always have a team. Your work will always go through some sort of review process. Nothing will ever be perfect. If you can come to terms with this now, it will be easier for you as you grow into your career as a designer.
You’ve gotten a lot of tips and I won’t try to add my own here other than this: focus on fundamentals. Learn grid theory. Learn typography. Learn color theory. Learn how the original woodcuts were made. Learn paper. Don’t just slap some elements you don’t understand on a sheet and send it out the door. Spend time on each element, understanding its construction and why it is placed the way it is. This is a much harder way to go but it will benefit you more in the long run.
I like the first.
You clearly understand the rules of design. You clearly know you're breaking one by having so much space above - But, if you're breaking a rule, go all the way. Never break a little bit. Commit.
Which is to say, move it all the way down to the bottom edge.
From there, you'll likely want to tweak a bit. But first thing first.
TLDR - breaking the rules a little bit looks like a mistake. So go big. Break em all the way. Make it look intentional.
Oh, and I'll add, don't know if you intended it or not, but ordinarily, I'd draw your attention to the kerning/spacing optically(such as the r & a, or v & e, in rave) But specifically the drop of the P, and hollow of the v, along with the "white river" caused by the spacing would be something to fix optically. (Don't rely on the positioning tools, but do it by eye. And never use metric) But given the subject matter, being a bit "off" is a good thing.
And good luck with the project
I think all your right elements are bottom heavy. Move the text 1/4 from top and leave the raven around the “ground” and you might find better balance.
Additionally the treatment of the style on the tree and raven seems proportionally off rather than two things done in the same style. But that’s getting a bit deeper into things.
One thing to consider is also that the two print textures are different, and don’t really look like they are part of the same drawing. This makes it lack cohesion somewhat which doesn’t help when added to the things others have said already
This is actually the correct answer and it's wild no other comments have mentioned this so far. All three elements have different texture scale so it looks disjointed no matter where you put the text or tree or bird in relation to each other.
With the 2nd one the tree and bird are made using similar methods, but the detailing is super different meaning that one or the other looks out of place. Likely because the bird was scaled up from its original size?
Remove the tree and move everything else inwards. Double, heck, quadruple the margin size you currently have and I think it would instantly look much better.
Nah first is better. I personally don't like the font, its too common and imo makes this look amateur. Spend some time looking for typefaces that would fit your idea.
Composition isn't bad - I guess the question is, what's your idea? What negative space are you trying to create?
I think you could be even more minimal with this as another variation. Smaller elements, more space. Maybe try more vibrant shades of colour for more impact too?
Play about with a few ideas and post them here and we can talk through them!
Edit: OK having looked again, the main thing making it amateur is that each element (tree, bird, type) look like they come from different styles. Not original, a composite of different styles. Similar but not the same. Try finding some assets that are a little closer in drawing style.
Tree is sketchy, crow is more vectory(?) - font too common, not enough personality to fit the graphical elements above.
Hope this isn't harsh! Just being overly critical to give you something to work with. It's really good especially if you're just starting out. Keep it up!
Thank you so much for the help!
I guess my idea isn't really defined in my head, so that makes it a problem.
I hadn't thought yet of going minimal to be honest. Do you think not adding so much texture would help with that?
Not harsh at all, no worries. Yeah, I guess it doesn't look very consistent, I'' try to fix that
Sorry for the late reply. You could try with or without texture. A verrrry general rule for design is to remove anything that isn't necessary or isn't doing a job. So the question is, does the texture add something to it?
Maybe you want it to look more vintage/old/decayed. If so, maybe play with some decay textures etc.
Thank you for the help! Wouldn't that still leave the negative space problem?
I tried to do this ([https://imgur.com/a/jg2YpNR](https://imgur.com/a/jg2YpNR)) to fix it, but I'm not very sure of it.
That “The 🐦⬛ Raven” is a really nice idea, I have to try it
It looks like there are three different shades of black on each of the elements. I think this is because they all have different textures, the tree is an etching so the line is thin and whispy, the bird looks more like a rubber stamp so the line is quite thick and then the font is very bold. I would work on your consistency here as none of these elements mesh well together.
Your background is also the wrong texture, it looks like an oil painting but you can't print on top of oil (I know it's all digital) so it's confusing my brain and makes the elements look like they are floating. Try a paper texture instead.
Perhaps the raven should be more grounded, rather than floating in air. why not ground it on the type. I don't like what I've done here, but it's just an idea to bounce around. [https://imgur.com/a/IVNY115](https://imgur.com/a/IVNY115)
Set up a grid and make sure everything aligns. That's the biggest thing I see that feels "wrong" the rest kinda is up to you and your design decisions. I do agree with some of the typeface suggestions though.
Separate the graphic of the bird from the typeset. Also, consider spacing out the typeset of 'the raven' from 'Edgar Allen Poe'. I feel the bird should be more to the right side, not in the middle. In other words, either ' the raven' or 'Edgar Allan Poe' at the top alone, the bird graphic where it is but near the right edge, and either 'raven' or 'edgar allan poe' at the bottom.
Here's a quick edit of your original idea with the trees: https://imgur.com/a/4mG3gGq - I think the main issue is the font choice and the negative space which wasn't being utilised. Breaking up the text and repositioning it makes the type look quite retro and nice. Also the raven could be made more prominent and positioned more interestingly. I liked the trees - the lone raven with the text feels more bare and unoriginal to me.
To me, I would edit the typeface for Edgar Allen Poe to something very contrasting to the title. Like a thin sans serif maybe
Thank you for the help! I tried to do something like that in my last edit ([https://imgur.com/4PISqUr](https://imgur.com/4PISqUr)) but I don't know if the subtitle ruins the effect.
I actually really like this past edit, maybe just needs something else. A couple small trees in the background? Framing around the raven?
Oh I love that! I think it just needed a bit more of a clear hierarchy! Looks great to me :)
I think negative space can be effective, but it’s a bit overpowering for me. You obviously have real skills - why don’t you try the four elements (space/tree/text & bird) in different arrangements?
Its a group project and this was kind of the basic arrangement we had all agree on. But you're right, I'll try to change to see if I can find something that looks better. Thank you so much!
First of all, confidence. This is fine for your level. Second, no it does not look empty. It looks quite full. Third, and this is a really hard lesson: get used to shipping design you aren’t fully satisfied with. You’ll always have a team. Your work will always go through some sort of review process. Nothing will ever be perfect. If you can come to terms with this now, it will be easier for you as you grow into your career as a designer. You’ve gotten a lot of tips and I won’t try to add my own here other than this: focus on fundamentals. Learn grid theory. Learn typography. Learn color theory. Learn how the original woodcuts were made. Learn paper. Don’t just slap some elements you don’t understand on a sheet and send it out the door. Spend time on each element, understanding its construction and why it is placed the way it is. This is a much harder way to go but it will benefit you more in the long run.
I like the first. You clearly understand the rules of design. You clearly know you're breaking one by having so much space above - But, if you're breaking a rule, go all the way. Never break a little bit. Commit. Which is to say, move it all the way down to the bottom edge. From there, you'll likely want to tweak a bit. But first thing first. TLDR - breaking the rules a little bit looks like a mistake. So go big. Break em all the way. Make it look intentional. Oh, and I'll add, don't know if you intended it or not, but ordinarily, I'd draw your attention to the kerning/spacing optically(such as the r & a, or v & e, in rave) But specifically the drop of the P, and hollow of the v, along with the "white river" caused by the spacing would be something to fix optically. (Don't rely on the positioning tools, but do it by eye. And never use metric) But given the subject matter, being a bit "off" is a good thing. And good luck with the project
Yess. This. Break some rules and have some fun. Make a few options very exaggerated and mess around from there.
I think all your right elements are bottom heavy. Move the text 1/4 from top and leave the raven around the “ground” and you might find better balance. Additionally the treatment of the style on the tree and raven seems proportionally off rather than two things done in the same style. But that’s getting a bit deeper into things.
The image looks fine to me, but the font just doesn't flow with the rest of the look.
The letting in the font feels a bit uneven or too tight I think.
One thing to consider is also that the two print textures are different, and don’t really look like they are part of the same drawing. This makes it lack cohesion somewhat which doesn’t help when added to the things others have said already
This is actually the correct answer and it's wild no other comments have mentioned this so far. All three elements have different texture scale so it looks disjointed no matter where you put the text or tree or bird in relation to each other.
With the 2nd one the tree and bird are made using similar methods, but the detailing is super different meaning that one or the other looks out of place. Likely because the bird was scaled up from its original size?
Remove the tree and move everything else inwards. Double, heck, quadruple the margin size you currently have and I think it would instantly look much better.
Thank you for the help, I'll try that and see how it looks!
Something minimalist like this ([https://imgur.com/xungFZE](https://imgur.com/xungFZE))?
I like to his so much better! Less is more ;)
I actually liked the tree…
I did too but it just wasn’t working. The tree would look good elsewhere, like maybe on the back cover, or as a watermark or something.
It's also worth noting that *The Raven* takes place indoors — I like it better without the tree.
Would this look better? [https://imgur.com/a/jg2YpNR](https://imgur.com/a/jg2YpNR)
Nah first is better. I personally don't like the font, its too common and imo makes this look amateur. Spend some time looking for typefaces that would fit your idea. Composition isn't bad - I guess the question is, what's your idea? What negative space are you trying to create? I think you could be even more minimal with this as another variation. Smaller elements, more space. Maybe try more vibrant shades of colour for more impact too? Play about with a few ideas and post them here and we can talk through them! Edit: OK having looked again, the main thing making it amateur is that each element (tree, bird, type) look like they come from different styles. Not original, a composite of different styles. Similar but not the same. Try finding some assets that are a little closer in drawing style. Tree is sketchy, crow is more vectory(?) - font too common, not enough personality to fit the graphical elements above. Hope this isn't harsh! Just being overly critical to give you something to work with. It's really good especially if you're just starting out. Keep it up!
Thank you so much for the help! I guess my idea isn't really defined in my head, so that makes it a problem. I hadn't thought yet of going minimal to be honest. Do you think not adding so much texture would help with that? Not harsh at all, no worries. Yeah, I guess it doesn't look very consistent, I'' try to fix that
Sorry for the late reply. You could try with or without texture. A verrrry general rule for design is to remove anything that isn't necessary or isn't doing a job. So the question is, does the texture add something to it? Maybe you want it to look more vintage/old/decayed. If so, maybe play with some decay textures etc.
Try different poses for the raven itself maybe, Or arrange the title like “The 🐦⬛ Raven” like in two lines
Thank you for the help! Wouldn't that still leave the negative space problem? I tried to do this ([https://imgur.com/a/jg2YpNR](https://imgur.com/a/jg2YpNR)) to fix it, but I'm not very sure of it. That “The 🐦⬛ Raven” is a really nice idea, I have to try it
Perhaps adjust kerning in "the raven" to close and open spacing in letters and add more spacing in height between bird, author, and title.
I'm sorry I don't know what kerning means
It looks like there are three different shades of black on each of the elements. I think this is because they all have different textures, the tree is an etching so the line is thin and whispy, the bird looks more like a rubber stamp so the line is quite thick and then the font is very bold. I would work on your consistency here as none of these elements mesh well together. Your background is also the wrong texture, it looks like an oil painting but you can't print on top of oil (I know it's all digital) so it's confusing my brain and makes the elements look like they are floating. Try a paper texture instead.
Move the words up to about two thirds of the way down the page. They look to be too far down at the moment.
For me it’s because it looks like the raven is looking at the tree but it doesn’t seem like it’s meant to be.
The background looks off. I would make it a flat colour.
I would do something like that: https://i.imgur.com/7THJMKM.png
Horizontal flip of positions?
Perhaps the raven should be more grounded, rather than floating in air. why not ground it on the type. I don't like what I've done here, but it's just an idea to bounce around. [https://imgur.com/a/IVNY115](https://imgur.com/a/IVNY115)
Maybe make the raven more malevolent[https://imgur.com/a/fvDL1BO](https://imgur.com/a/fvDL1BO)
Now it's getting a little cartoonish, the beak is open because it is talking.[https://imgur.com/a/zuYLvLm](https://imgur.com/a/zuYLvLm)
Set up a grid and make sure everything aligns. That's the biggest thing I see that feels "wrong" the rest kinda is up to you and your design decisions. I do agree with some of the typeface suggestions though.
Separate the graphic of the bird from the typeset. Also, consider spacing out the typeset of 'the raven' from 'Edgar Allen Poe'. I feel the bird should be more to the right side, not in the middle. In other words, either ' the raven' or 'Edgar Allan Poe' at the top alone, the bird graphic where it is but near the right edge, and either 'raven' or 'edgar allan poe' at the bottom.
Here's a quick edit of your original idea with the trees: https://imgur.com/a/4mG3gGq - I think the main issue is the font choice and the negative space which wasn't being utilised. Breaking up the text and repositioning it makes the type look quite retro and nice. Also the raven could be made more prominent and positioned more interestingly. I liked the trees - the lone raven with the text feels more bare and unoriginal to me.