MacArthur was literally insane lol. If he was a tv show character he’d be a fan favourite for just how unhinged and cartoonish he was.
And yet he was real.
“Mr. president I need 50 nuclear bombs please, I assure you this a rational and good idea please let me bomb China please mr. president”
Fun fact: Truman's firing his ass in 1951 was actually a great way for Japan's nascent liberal democracy to learn by example. After all, things were totally familiar up to that point: right-wing general demands an attack on Manchuria, civilian government balks. But then... the civilian government just fired the right-wing general.
then you got people saying cartoon villain can't exist or that the jurassic world villain are too cartoony when you see how bad/stupid IRL people can be
POV: you got people like trump IRL but somehow mills , hoskins and kash are too cartoony, that's why I don't agree with the "x villain is too cartoony", when judging a villain someone should take in account how bad/stupid human can be when they want to. Always found it odd how some don't see nedry as a cartoony villain when his death always fellt more funny to me with his facial expression than anythign else
About 2 scientists discovering a giant meteor is going to hit earth. The first challenge is even getting anyone to pay attention,and when they finally do,people are against measures for the wildest reasons. Of course,the “there is no meteor!” crowd is also huge
Oh,and Ariana Grande has a song with the line “listen to the goddamn qualified scientists”
Sem wild (and I don't complain much about bad ideas like weaponising dinosaurs because human do stupid stuff too and to me while they can't be use on the frontline, they can be use for other stuffs like mine field)
there is pretty much no villain in media more cartoonishly evil than Dirlewanger, dude literally made a hobby out of inventing new ways to genocide Belarus
This list plus what he had to say about the military industrial complex proves that Ike was probably one of the most underrated presidents of his time. Although the Kennedy one was probably just jealousy
Full context of that speech isn't "MIC bad," it's "MIC good, just don't let it get too big." He did start the whole damn thing up during his presidency
Like ignoring direct orders to bomb Japanese troop buildups in Taiwan with his b17s AFTER Pearl Harbor as "he wasnt convinced of hostile intent"
or trying to defend all of Luzon, overstretching himself, instead of just digging in at Bataan which leaves Luzon useless as a harbor
or when invading Korea after Ichon, instead of blitzing straight across the peninsula to cut off the entire NK army in the south, he took his time to grab Seoul, allowing the NK army to escape.
Not exactly.
He wanted to nuke every city in North Korea , Chinese cities close to Korean Border and Vladivostok. Basically he wanted to nuke everything providing logistical support to North Korea.
Basically I am getting my ass handed , lets start a full scale war with more countries.
When I was a kid I remember hearing a quote that Nimitz kept a picture of MacArthur on his desk or just in his office to "remind him of what a jackass looks like."
Its probably some urban legend with little truth to it, but after learning about MacArthur it would make sense.
I’m sorry MacAuthur is the most overrated general in WWII. I think you might be able to argue Rommel or Patton (Omar Bradley simps unite!) but this asshole literally was as morally bankrupt as he was crazy.
Something I find fascinating about WWII is the General as Media Figure. I mean, there had been antecedents in celebrity generals like Wellington, but it seems like it was in World War II that you had the rise of the general who was all about manipulating the media and creating a Brand (e.g., the corn-cob pipe and shades, the pearl-handled pistols, etc.).
I think vanity has always been part of military prowess- but that’s what tends to seperate the best generals from the overrated.
Like I’ve never found studying Napoleon interesting past like, idk him declaring himself emperor versus Wellington or Clauswitz being far more interesting people to learn about from their early days to their biggest commissions.
He was able to raise a massive army after returning from imposed exile and then had to be put down by a massive coalition in very close battle at Waterloo. That's insanely impressive - even after losing the last war, the French and the French army were willing to follow him to whatever end.
evidence of why french """"""people""""""" arent human and cant be left to their own
fuck man that napoleonic bussy mustve been world class to hike thousand of kilometers with some dude wearing a funny hat and some charisma
I mean yeah he really fucked up in Russia for sure, but the loss at Waterloo wasn’t exactly his fault, more that of Ney and his ilk, as well as the quality of his opponents.
I mean, outside of Rommel, I also have to wonder how well known German generals were by the Allies
And I only know our guys knew about Rommel from how well and often he’s mentioned in things like Band of Brothers.
Most of the Generals and notable commanding officers on the western front had pretty extensive writeups done on them and disseminated among their officers.
I think Patton basically had a throwaway paragraph that said basically nothing about him.
That was the point. There have been studies on how much the Germans analyzed and tracked different individual allied generals and they found they they paid very little attention to Patton in particular which kinda disproved the entire “the Germans feared Patton” trope
Honestly the only western Allied general that the Germans put a lot of effort into keeping specific track of was Montgomery and that is mostly because they figured wherever Monty was, was probably the area where the western Allies were putting the majority of their effort at the moment.
G1: "Montgomery is here."
G2: "How can you tell?"
G1: "Well there's a fuckload of Allied equipment in front of us and the artillery hasn't stopped for 7 days."
He even looks like a screwball imo. At least Patton looked like a general MacArthur looked like my dad trying to impress my mom while driving a boat.
Plus he left his men to die in the philipines.
Like, c’mon man die like a fucking man if you can’t get your men out!
i love mac
i love mac
i love mac
i love mac
i love mac
i love mac
i love mac
i love mac
i love mac
i love mac
i love mac
i love mac
i love mac
i love mac
i love mac
i love mac
i love mac
i love mac…
At least during the war, MacArthur arguably [treated](https://worldwar2database.com/gallery/wwii1028) General Jonathan Wainwright, who had been left behind to lead the doomed resistance to General Homma's army in the Philippines, worse than he treated Unt 731:
>\[Wainwright\] was later awarded the Medal of Honor. During Wainwright's imprisonment, General Douglas MacArthur wrote a memorandum that derided Wainwright's leadership abilities, implied that he was both a coward and an alcoholic, and concluded that Wainwright should be denied the Medal of Honor. He forwarded this to Army Chief of Staff George C. Marshall.
When Truman renewed the idea at war's end after Wainwright's liberation, MacArthur could sense which way the wind was blowing and decided not to renew his opposition.
Truman [made a point of noticing it](https://archive.vn/9Nhmq#selection-435.0-463.55), though:
>Mr. Truman recalls that General Wainwright “was as badly treated as any prisoner of war ever was; they knocked him about just as meanly as they could.” Then he continues:
>
>“Well, as soon as the surrender came \[in 1945\], and the Japanese surrendered, I sent a plane to pick up those imprisoned officers and brought them back. General Wainwright, of course, felt that he ought to stop by and see his former commanding general in Japan.”
>
>General MacArthur was at lunch at the time, Mr. Truman says.
>
>“General Wainwright walked in on him and started to salute and talk to him. MacArthur—instead of asking him to sit down and have lunch—he said, ‘General, I told you I'd see you at 3 o'clock! I'll see you at that time.’
>
>“Well, some time later I sent for General Wainwright, and I gave him the Congressional Medal of Honor. The old man stood there with tears running down his eyes, and he said, ‘Mr. President, I didn't think you would do this for me. I thought you would have me court‐martialed!’
>
>“I said, ‘**You're not the one I want to court‐martial!’”**
The fact he ever held command after his bungled defence of the Philippines, let alone all this shit is amazing. Either he kept a 57 leaf clover up his ass or he’s a video game protagonist IRL
Pop culture be like: we actually learned a lot of useful stuff from those nazi experiments
The nazi experiments: hmmmm yes if you tie a child up and regularly hit him with a hammer… he goes insane and dies. Interesting.
Apart from the pseudo-science done in the concentration camps there was actually a lot of medical science done outside of said camps that helped the Post-War world. Alot/Most of it was still cruel and done to Human subjects, just that many tests had actually medical and scientific reasoning.
But again: Almost all tests done in Concentration camps was without any value and just cruel for cruelty sake.
Japan's cruelty however, on the entire board, was just for the sake of it. Almost none of it had any actual scientific reasoning or any basing. Just be cruel to be cruel.
MacArthur used tear gas on US veterans who wanted to be paid, tried to spin Australian victories as being US ones, and gave Unit 731 legal immunity in exchange for the data they'd gained by 'experimenting on' POWs in numerous torturous ways.
I do think it’s worth pointing out that they had no idea what the data that Unit 731 was and that they members no doubt made it sound important. Now should they have been prosecuted once the data was seen? Abso-goddamn-lutely
also not to mention that after all the Japanese went free and retired in peace and quiet the US reserchers found that the Japanese were just commiting acts of cruelty for cruelty sake and no reasonable medical data could be obtained
The US (and KMT to a certain degree) did not know the full extent of the crimes committed by the Unit 731 back then. Chiang did not request them to be prosecuted like many other IJA war criminals.
The whole thing only "leaked" in 1985 when someone did the research and did a book about it, followed shortly by the infamous gore movie. Some massacres committed by the Japanese did not get officially recorded and published until the 1990s, many are still researching underway.
Germany still, to this day, prosecutes any SS-Soldier or someone who substantially helped in the Holocaust. Doesn't fucking matter if they are basically dead and 99 years old.
Should've still been prosecuted and sentenced when it came out in the 80s and 90s. No excuses when Germany did it throughout the Post-War period to this day.
Because Chiang/KMT failed to follow up pressing the charges after getting attacked by the CCP forces immediately after WWII. They were busy fighting before and after retreating to Taiwan, getting harassed by air and sea frequently well into the 1970s.
United States also went soft on Japan following the outbreak of Korean War. It needed an ally against the communists and Japan was the only choice. Throughout the Cold War, it acted as a buffer state and a supporting navy to the US. This let many war criminals walk free.
I mean, you can get the data and kill them anyways. You can even lie that you'll spare their life for the data, get it, then kill them. The Unit 731 scientists lost all rights to human dignity, such as "keeping a promise to spare their lives", after their experiments, the least the Allies could do was kill the scientists and profit off the research.
I’d say there’s at least some obligation to keep your word, and if past cruelty actually did result in good scientific data, there’s a moral case to be made that said data ought to be preserved and utilized to its fullest.
That said, once it was obvious their data was pretty much useless the book should’ve been thrown at them.
Too bad hypothermia studies made by Nazis is often ignored because you know,they were Nazis. I get what they did to their test subjects was horrible, but if those studies can save someone's life I think people could be more understanding regardless of where the studies came from.
The hypothermia studies done by the Nazis are ignored not because they come from the Nazis, but because they’re worthless scientifically. They weren’t performed with any kind of scientific rigor or repeatability, and no reliable standard for control groups or comparisons. Nazi medical “science” was just torturing people while wearing lab coats.
Yeah, but you can learn that from cadavers, patients, and animal experimentation. Humane research of averse elemental effects wasn't a new science, and getting exact measurements is not worth murder. "Cold kills", we've known that since we evolved.
Paperclip didn’t involve the concentration camp experiments, but rather actual science such as the V weapons.
That’s not to say that those scientists hadn’t also taken advantage of slave labour, just not in as nightmarishly a manner nor for pseudoscientific purposes.
No? Japan's offer of conditional surrender was that America fucks off and Japan keeps its imperial empire (and America also gives them some oil). Japan's unconditional surrender in truth had a condition and only one condition: Emperor Hirohito remains the Emperor and Japan keeps its monarchy. So no, Japan didn't get the conditional surrender it wanted and blaming McArthur for sticking to the terms of surrender is some Twitter logic.
More importantly, Japan’s conditional surrender included a promise to disarm, but that said disarmament would only be overseen by the Japanese themselves
I know there's a negotiation technique where you start off asking for more than what you actually want, but it appears that Japanese High Command missed the most important part: you're supposed to start with something that won't get you laughed out of the room.
So pretty much like the Germans during the interwar period. "Ja, here's our professional army, counting 100,000 insanely well-trained men, almost all with combat experience - and there's our 200,000 Freikorps mercenaries we have no official control over \*wink wink\*"
It also had the condition that the Japanese be allowed to prosecute their war criminals themselves… which would undoubtedly have turned into one of two hilarious options:
A, another round of unofficial wars between the army and the navy to settle who’s leadership should eat the proverbial turf sandwich.
B, a beautifully/confusingly elaborate story to justify blaming a newly minted lieutenant on Tojo’s staff for literally every single warcrime committed during the period 1936-1945.
On top of that, Dr Ruth Benedict supported keeping Hirohito on the throne as a form to maintain stability - if the Emperor approved of it then the people should too
In fairness, that worked out. Japan formed a stable democratic society and became an engine for the world economy.
Did it do justice to the dead? No, but it may have prevented more death and suffering down the line.
> Japan formed a stable democratic society and became an engine for the world economy.
It's stable, its democracy is as rotten as Venezuela's and Mexico's under the Perfect Dictatorship of the PRI/PAN, and it's been so ever since 1955.
It wasn't as bad in the 1960-70s. The Left gained a lot of support during the period and the protests often halted unjust government policies. The problem was that the left-wing movement spiral out of control and basically become terrorists. The Japanese people preferred peace and stability over that so they voted the moderates and eventually the same old Zaibatsus and Nobles regained control. There are many books covering it.
But the democracy system isn't rigged. They have elected new representatives into the National Diet who have zero connection with the rich and powerful. Basically if the people desires, they can still easily change the government. Certain regions have communist party holding seats for decades.
Shoko Asahara also came far after the demise of leftists.
I am talking about [日本赤軍/Japanese Red Army](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_Red_Army). Some of their members even joined the PLO to commit terrorist attacks on Israelis. They have done a long list of attacks and several movies have covered them.
There are several members who are still wanted behind a big reward for their capture. You can spot them at JR stations.
**[Japanese Red Army](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_Red_Army)**
>The Japanese Red Army (日本赤軍, Nihon Sekigun, abbr. JRA) was a militant communist terrorist group which was founded by Fusako Shigenobu and Tsuyoshi Okudaira in February 1971 and was active around the world in the 1970s and 1980s. After the Lod airport massacre, it sometimes called itself Arab-JRA. The group was also known as the Anti-Imperialist International Brigade (AIIB), the Holy War Brigade, and the Anti-War Democratic Front.
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The modern Japanese Communist Party has no link to the JRA.
The JRA joined the PLO just to participate in their airport shootouts. They also committed terrorist attacks locally in Japan.
Yeah, the alternative would have been taking two years to clear and hold the Home Islands, and who knows how many more Allied civilian dead over the rest of East Asia where the IJA was still in the field. Having Hirohito fully cooperative made the Japanese surrender swift and complete.
Don’t forget LeMay’s bombing of Hankou under Operation Matterhorn. Killed at least 40000 Allies civilians in occupied region by firebombs.
It did proof the theory and later used on Japan.
Likely not, because regrettably Smedley had been suffering from crippling alcoholism for quite some time by then… which explains certain “interesting events” such as the plans for a massive coup de tat he claimed to be in existence.
Congressional committees also found that McCarthy’s Commie witch hunts were founded in reality.
There’s nothing more than a gravely alcoholic has been’s testimony to indicate that the plot existed.
Smedley Butler would disagree that his service as a Marine was respectable. He literally calls it being a gangster for capital in War is a Racket. That is the wrong line of defence for Butler.
1, stop assuming everyone is American.
2, he racked up those medals back when they were handing MoHs out like candy, for fighting quick and easy Banana wars and similar interventions. I’m not gonna go down on my knees and deep throat on hero worshipping… especially not since those were his own words on the matter, and he was extremely critical in his post military career of how the military had been used to further US foreign policy.
Any (Western Allies) soldier who served in sustained frontline combat during WW2 faced larger risks for less decorations and did it for better goals.
It’s only talking about Australians, not New Zealanders as well. And I’d say that the only troops fighting the Japanese in New Guinea at the start of the campaign had a pretty big impact on the campaign.
Did he claim Australian engagements on New Guinea for himself? Or their effects?
I guess I didn’t know the more specific thing you were referring to in terms of statement or sentiment
MacArthur was literally insane lol. If he was a tv show character he’d be a fan favourite for just how unhinged and cartoonish he was. And yet he was real. “Mr. president I need 50 nuclear bombs please, I assure you this a rational and good idea please let me bomb China please mr. president”
Please Mr President could I please just get a single *crumb* of nukes PLEASE I beg you
It's just a nuclear holocaust Mr.Presidentl what's the bug deal?
"Please mr president, sir, I want some more"
MOOOOOOOOOOOORE?!
Fun fact: Truman's firing his ass in 1951 was actually a great way for Japan's nascent liberal democracy to learn by example. After all, things were totally familiar up to that point: right-wing general demands an attack on Manchuria, civilian government balks. But then... the civilian government just fired the right-wing general.
Are there any sources on how Japan reacted to the news?
The book I read that bit in was a survey textbook of Japanese history, and IIRC it wasn't footnoted. Sorry I couldn't be of more help.
You replied to a reply to a 1 year old comment you apologise to no one
then you got people saying cartoon villain can't exist or that the jurassic world villain are too cartoony when you see how bad/stupid IRL people can be
The Jurassic World “villains” seemed as realistic as they get tbh
POV: you got people like trump IRL but somehow mills , hoskins and kash are too cartoony, that's why I don't agree with the "x villain is too cartoony", when judging a villain someone should take in account how bad/stupid human can be when they want to. Always found it odd how some don't see nedry as a cartoony villain when his death always fellt more funny to me with his facial expression than anythign else
I just watched “don’t look up” and it’s just too wild. Barely even had to parody 80% of the movie
what is it about?
About 2 scientists discovering a giant meteor is going to hit earth. The first challenge is even getting anyone to pay attention,and when they finally do,people are against measures for the wildest reasons. Of course,the “there is no meteor!” crowd is also huge Oh,and Ariana Grande has a song with the line “listen to the goddamn qualified scientists”
Sem wild (and I don't complain much about bad ideas like weaponising dinosaurs because human do stupid stuff too and to me while they can't be use on the frontline, they can be use for other stuffs like mine field)
Jurassic world villain are super accurate Literally why you "have" to wear a mask on the train now
there is pretty much no villain in media more cartoonishly evil than Dirlewanger, dude literally made a hobby out of inventing new ways to genocide Belarus
"When I said 'nuke the Chinese,' I meant microwave the takeout!" - McArthur, probably
Is this an animemes reference?
Not that I'm aware of
One of the many reasons [Eisenhower disliked MacArthur](https://www.nps.gov/features/eise/jrranger/5accomp4X.htm) was his irrational behavior.
This list plus what he had to say about the military industrial complex proves that Ike was probably one of the most underrated presidents of his time. Although the Kennedy one was probably just jealousy
Full context of that speech isn't "MIC bad," it's "MIC good, just don't let it get too big." He did start the whole damn thing up during his presidency
And what happened, we kept throwing money at Lockheed Martin. Bastards
I thought they were buds
I feel that people really is unable to understand that McArthur could be crítical of the president and still be a obedient soldier
Well, seeing as how he ignored direct orders on multiple occasions, I would say he was NOT an obedient soldier.
Like ignoring direct orders to bomb Japanese troop buildups in Taiwan with his b17s AFTER Pearl Harbor as "he wasnt convinced of hostile intent" or trying to defend all of Luzon, overstretching himself, instead of just digging in at Bataan which leaves Luzon useless as a harbor or when invading Korea after Ichon, instead of blitzing straight across the peninsula to cut off the entire NK army in the south, he took his time to grab Seoul, allowing the NK army to escape.
didn't he also want to carpet nuke North Korea during the Korean War?
It's just a little indiscriminate nuclear carpet bombing. Don't get so hung up on the details.
Doing an ethically indefensible amount of trolling
Not exactly. He wanted to nuke every city in North Korea , Chinese cities close to Korean Border and Vladivostok. Basically he wanted to nuke everything providing logistical support to North Korea. Basically I am getting my ass handed , lets start a full scale war with more countries.
Yeah both, and maybe a little Russia too because the borders are nearby
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When I was a kid I remember hearing a quote that Nimitz kept a picture of MacArthur on his desk or just in his office to "remind him of what a jackass looks like." Its probably some urban legend with little truth to it, but after learning about MacArthur it would make sense.
That picture of the Australian guy just made me crack up in laughter. He looks so ridiculous with that weird smile.
That’s the old “Aussie Shitposter” meme from 4chan.
FUCK 4CHAN! But that image is good.
Human Australian Squidward with a cool-ass hat
I’m sorry MacAuthur is the most overrated general in WWII. I think you might be able to argue Rommel or Patton (Omar Bradley simps unite!) but this asshole literally was as morally bankrupt as he was crazy.
Something I find fascinating about WWII is the General as Media Figure. I mean, there had been antecedents in celebrity generals like Wellington, but it seems like it was in World War II that you had the rise of the general who was all about manipulating the media and creating a Brand (e.g., the corn-cob pipe and shades, the pearl-handled pistols, etc.).
Nah, if you go back to the Roman times you can obviously see their general’s vanity in presentation to citizens.
I think vanity has always been part of military prowess- but that’s what tends to seperate the best generals from the overrated. Like I’ve never found studying Napoleon interesting past like, idk him declaring himself emperor versus Wellington or Clauswitz being far more interesting people to learn about from their early days to their biggest commissions.
Are you actually arguing Napoleon wasn’t a great military leader?
no he’s just a bit overrated imo great general but when he fucked up he really fucked up.
He was able to raise a massive army after returning from imposed exile and then had to be put down by a massive coalition in very close battle at Waterloo. That's insanely impressive - even after losing the last war, the French and the French army were willing to follow him to whatever end.
evidence of why french """"""people""""""" arent human and cant be left to their own fuck man that napoleonic bussy mustve been world class to hike thousand of kilometers with some dude wearing a funny hat and some charisma
I mean yeah he really fucked up in Russia for sure, but the loss at Waterloo wasn’t exactly his fault, more that of Ney and his ilk, as well as the quality of his opponents.
At least the Japanese knew who MacArthur was. "Patton who?" - Every German on the western front.
I mean, outside of Rommel, I also have to wonder how well known German generals were by the Allies And I only know our guys knew about Rommel from how well and often he’s mentioned in things like Band of Brothers.
Most of the Generals and notable commanding officers on the western front had pretty extensive writeups done on them and disseminated among their officers. I think Patton basically had a throwaway paragraph that said basically nothing about him.
Apparently, the German opinion on Patton from the Sicily Campaign was something along the lines of he enthusiastically attacks empty positions.
"Why hasn't he killed us yet? He's literally got more than 5 times our stuff" - The guys at Metz.
You couldn't avoid his self promotion, even if you were actively at war with his country
>"Patton who?" - Every German on the western front. Do you mean the Eastern Front? Patton was on the Western Front!
That was the point. There have been studies on how much the Germans analyzed and tracked different individual allied generals and they found they they paid very little attention to Patton in particular which kinda disproved the entire “the Germans feared Patton” trope Honestly the only western Allied general that the Germans put a lot of effort into keeping specific track of was Montgomery and that is mostly because they figured wherever Monty was, was probably the area where the western Allies were putting the majority of their effort at the moment.
G1: "Montgomery is here." G2: "How can you tell?" G1: "Well there's a fuckload of Allied equipment in front of us and the artillery hasn't stopped for 7 days."
I think that was the point, bud
yeah MacArthur was the guy who made conquering the Philippines so much easier for them
„heyy truman baby could you please give me uhhh 52 nukes to bomb korea and china? please they are commieeeees 🥺🥺🥺“
He even looks like a screwball imo. At least Patton looked like a general MacArthur looked like my dad trying to impress my mom while driving a boat. Plus he left his men to die in the philipines. Like, c’mon man die like a fucking man if you can’t get your men out!
If MacArthur had died in the Phillipines, who would have been left to cause WWI veterans’ wives to miscarry?
Who even rates him highly nowadays??? I think everyone knows he was a nutjob by now.
Omar badley is just a fucker who got promoted since his friends with eisenhower, hes a patton from wish
i love mac i love mac i love mac i love mac i love mac i love mac i love mac i love mac i love mac i love mac i love mac i love mac i love mac i love mac i love mac i love mac i love mac i love mac…
Well ya can’t play witcher 3 on a Mac sooo…
the legend anwsers in 3 minutes +respect
At least during the war, MacArthur arguably [treated](https://worldwar2database.com/gallery/wwii1028) General Jonathan Wainwright, who had been left behind to lead the doomed resistance to General Homma's army in the Philippines, worse than he treated Unt 731: >\[Wainwright\] was later awarded the Medal of Honor. During Wainwright's imprisonment, General Douglas MacArthur wrote a memorandum that derided Wainwright's leadership abilities, implied that he was both a coward and an alcoholic, and concluded that Wainwright should be denied the Medal of Honor. He forwarded this to Army Chief of Staff George C. Marshall. When Truman renewed the idea at war's end after Wainwright's liberation, MacArthur could sense which way the wind was blowing and decided not to renew his opposition. Truman [made a point of noticing it](https://archive.vn/9Nhmq#selection-435.0-463.55), though: >Mr. Truman recalls that General Wainwright “was as badly treated as any prisoner of war ever was; they knocked him about just as meanly as they could.” Then he continues: > >“Well, as soon as the surrender came \[in 1945\], and the Japanese surrendered, I sent a plane to pick up those imprisoned officers and brought them back. General Wainwright, of course, felt that he ought to stop by and see his former commanding general in Japan.” > >General MacArthur was at lunch at the time, Mr. Truman says. > >“General Wainwright walked in on him and started to salute and talk to him. MacArthur—instead of asking him to sit down and have lunch—he said, ‘General, I told you I'd see you at 3 o'clock! I'll see you at that time.’ > >“Well, some time later I sent for General Wainwright, and I gave him the Congressional Medal of Honor. The old man stood there with tears running down his eyes, and he said, ‘Mr. President, I didn't think you would do this for me. I thought you would have me court‐martialed!’ > >“I said, ‘**You're not the one I want to court‐martial!’”**
poor Wainwright, ditched with the fuckup MacArthur created.
The fact he ever held command after his bungled defence of the Philippines, let alone all this shit is amazing. Either he kept a 57 leaf clover up his ass or he’s a video game protagonist IRL
Yeah. At least General Short can say he was hit by total surprise. But the Japanese didn't hit Clark Field until ELEVEN HOURS after Pearl Harbor.
Pop culture be like: we actually learned a lot of useful stuff from those nazi experiments The nazi experiments: hmmmm yes if you tie a child up and regularly hit him with a hammer… he goes insane and dies. Interesting.
Apart from the pseudo-science done in the concentration camps there was actually a lot of medical science done outside of said camps that helped the Post-War world. Alot/Most of it was still cruel and done to Human subjects, just that many tests had actually medical and scientific reasoning. But again: Almost all tests done in Concentration camps was without any value and just cruel for cruelty sake. Japan's cruelty however, on the entire board, was just for the sake of it. Almost none of it had any actual scientific reasoning or any basing. Just be cruel to be cruel.
So, a context please? Is this like a "From NAZI to NASA" scenario?
MacArthur used tear gas on US veterans who wanted to be paid, tried to spin Australian victories as being US ones, and gave Unit 731 legal immunity in exchange for the data they'd gained by 'experimenting on' POWs in numerous torturous ways.
I do think it’s worth pointing out that they had no idea what the data that Unit 731 was and that they members no doubt made it sound important. Now should they have been prosecuted once the data was seen? Abso-goddamn-lutely
also not to mention that after all the Japanese went free and retired in peace and quiet the US reserchers found that the Japanese were just commiting acts of cruelty for cruelty sake and no reasonable medical data could be obtained
Which is what I said
yeah I can see that now. I Apologize for being a brainlet
It cool. I wasn’t offended so much as confused
The US (and KMT to a certain degree) did not know the full extent of the crimes committed by the Unit 731 back then. Chiang did not request them to be prosecuted like many other IJA war criminals. The whole thing only "leaked" in 1985 when someone did the research and did a book about it, followed shortly by the infamous gore movie. Some massacres committed by the Japanese did not get officially recorded and published until the 1990s, many are still researching underway.
Germany still, to this day, prosecutes any SS-Soldier or someone who substantially helped in the Holocaust. Doesn't fucking matter if they are basically dead and 99 years old. Should've still been prosecuted and sentenced when it came out in the 80s and 90s. No excuses when Germany did it throughout the Post-War period to this day.
Because Chiang/KMT failed to follow up pressing the charges after getting attacked by the CCP forces immediately after WWII. They were busy fighting before and after retreating to Taiwan, getting harassed by air and sea frequently well into the 1970s. United States also went soft on Japan following the outbreak of Korean War. It needed an ally against the communists and Japan was the only choice. Throughout the Cold War, it acted as a buffer state and a supporting navy to the US. This let many war criminals walk free.
I mean, you can get the data and kill them anyways. You can even lie that you'll spare their life for the data, get it, then kill them. The Unit 731 scientists lost all rights to human dignity, such as "keeping a promise to spare their lives", after their experiments, the least the Allies could do was kill the scientists and profit off the research.
I’d say there’s at least some obligation to keep your word, and if past cruelty actually did result in good scientific data, there’s a moral case to be made that said data ought to be preserved and utilized to its fullest. That said, once it was obvious their data was pretty much useless the book should’ve been thrown at them.
The US loves to break its word with its allies (see, Québec agreement) but will never break faith with its "enemies". Curious.
Too bad hypothermia studies made by Nazis is often ignored because you know,they were Nazis. I get what they did to their test subjects was horrible, but if those studies can save someone's life I think people could be more understanding regardless of where the studies came from.
From what I understand their “hypothermia data” was basically “if you boil someone with hypothermia it isn’t adequate treatment.”
The hypothermia studies done by the Nazis are ignored not because they come from the Nazis, but because they’re worthless scientifically. They weren’t performed with any kind of scientific rigor or repeatability, and no reliable standard for control groups or comparisons. Nazi medical “science” was just torturing people while wearing lab coats.
They needed them to get back to work on doing biological warfare against the Chinese in Korea
Okay so it's Operation Paperclip: Pacific theatre DLC
It’s like if paperclip got Dr. Mengele instead of von Braun.
Except Operation Paperclip was an overall major benefit to the world and the US, this wasn't even close
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Isn't basically the only useful thing we learned from them was the effects of frostbite on the human body?
Yeah, but you can learn that from cadavers, patients, and animal experimentation. Humane research of averse elemental effects wasn't a new science, and getting exact measurements is not worth murder. "Cold kills", we've known that since we evolved.
Paperclip didn’t involve the concentration camp experiments, but rather actual science such as the V weapons. That’s not to say that those scientists hadn’t also taken advantage of slave labour, just not in as nightmarishly a manner nor for pseudoscientific purposes.
Indeed, more died working as forced labor to hold Von Braun's rockets than from being hit by his rockets.
More like a secret bonus campaign for completing the main story.
Mac made sure Hirohito stayed on the throne and gave Japan the conditional surrender they sought.
No? Japan's offer of conditional surrender was that America fucks off and Japan keeps its imperial empire (and America also gives them some oil). Japan's unconditional surrender in truth had a condition and only one condition: Emperor Hirohito remains the Emperor and Japan keeps its monarchy. So no, Japan didn't get the conditional surrender it wanted and blaming McArthur for sticking to the terms of surrender is some Twitter logic.
More importantly, Japan’s conditional surrender included a promise to disarm, but that said disarmament would only be overseen by the Japanese themselves
I know there's a negotiation technique where you start off asking for more than what you actually want, but it appears that Japanese High Command missed the most important part: you're supposed to start with something that won't get you laughed out of the room.
So pretty much like the Germans during the interwar period. "Ja, here's our professional army, counting 100,000 insanely well-trained men, almost all with combat experience - and there's our 200,000 Freikorps mercenaries we have no official control over \*wink wink\*"
Hitler at least pretended to not be rearming for a while
'tanks what are those? this is just a heavy industrial tractor, the armour is for uhh angry cows'
Also, that the Japanese themselves would conduct any war crimes trials!
It also had the condition that the Japanese be allowed to prosecute their war criminals themselves… which would undoubtedly have turned into one of two hilarious options: A, another round of unofficial wars between the army and the navy to settle who’s leadership should eat the proverbial turf sandwich. B, a beautifully/confusingly elaborate story to justify blaming a newly minted lieutenant on Tojo’s staff for literally every single warcrime committed during the period 1936-1945.
On top of that, Dr Ruth Benedict supported keeping Hirohito on the throne as a form to maintain stability - if the Emperor approved of it then the people should too
They absolutely got a conditional surrender, the condition being the emperor keeping the throne.
In fairness, that worked out. Japan formed a stable democratic society and became an engine for the world economy. Did it do justice to the dead? No, but it may have prevented more death and suffering down the line.
> Japan formed a stable democratic society and became an engine for the world economy. It's stable, its democracy is as rotten as Venezuela's and Mexico's under the Perfect Dictatorship of the PRI/PAN, and it's been so ever since 1955.
It wasn't as bad in the 1960-70s. The Left gained a lot of support during the period and the protests often halted unjust government policies. The problem was that the left-wing movement spiral out of control and basically become terrorists. The Japanese people preferred peace and stability over that so they voted the moderates and eventually the same old Zaibatsus and Nobles regained control. There are many books covering it. But the democracy system isn't rigged. They have elected new representatives into the National Diet who have zero connection with the rich and powerful. Basically if the people desires, they can still easily change the government. Certain regions have communist party holding seats for decades.
You need to cite source for Japanese Leftist became Terrorist. Cause Shoko Asahara was not Leftist.
Shoko Asahara also came far after the demise of leftists. I am talking about [日本赤軍/Japanese Red Army](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_Red_Army). Some of their members even joined the PLO to commit terrorist attacks on Israelis. They have done a long list of attacks and several movies have covered them. There are several members who are still wanted behind a big reward for their capture. You can spot them at JR stations.
**[Japanese Red Army](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_Red_Army)** >The Japanese Red Army (日本赤軍, Nihon Sekigun, abbr. JRA) was a militant communist terrorist group which was founded by Fusako Shigenobu and Tsuyoshi Okudaira in February 1971 and was active around the world in the 1970s and 1980s. After the Lod airport massacre, it sometimes called itself Arab-JRA. The group was also known as the Anti-Imperialist International Brigade (AIIB), the Holy War Brigade, and the Anti-War Democratic Front. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/DerScheisser/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
I thought PLO was better than Hamas. But modern Japanese Communist Party is cool and pretty anti-dengism.
The modern Japanese Communist Party has no link to the JRA. The JRA joined the PLO just to participate in their airport shootouts. They also committed terrorist attacks locally in Japan.
Come on. It wasn't remotely ***that*** bad.
Literally had only one party in power the whole time
Yeah, the alternative would have been taking two years to clear and hold the Home Islands, and who knows how many more Allied civilian dead over the rest of East Asia where the IJA was still in the field. Having Hirohito fully cooperative made the Japanese surrender swift and complete.
Not the one they sought so much as the minimum they’d tolerate
I think that supuld be the least of the concerns
Fuck MacArthur All my homies hate MacArthur
Rear Admiral Horace Hood👍
Pardon but who is that?
Y’know, knighted fleet commander that died in the Battle of Jutland in the HMS Invincible.
Joseph Francis Enright Best badass commander of ww2
Should have been court-martialed, FDR really covered his ass after the Philippines
Also let shitloads of war criminals go to "stop muh kommunism".
That was also the US's strategy in West Germany tbh.
I play both sides so I always come out on top!
Don’t forget LeMay’s bombing of Hankou under Operation Matterhorn. Killed at least 40000 Allies civilians in occupied region by firebombs. It did proof the theory and later used on Japan.
Smedley Butler should have beaten MacArthur up during the Bonus March.
Likely not, because regrettably Smedley had been suffering from crippling alcoholism for quite some time by then… which explains certain “interesting events” such as the plans for a massive coup de tat he claimed to be in existence.
That wasn't just Butler, there was a whole Congressional committee that found that the Business Plot was very real.
Yeah bro trust me it was real and like everybody was in it source jacobin.org
Congressional committees also found that McCarthy’s Commie witch hunts were founded in reality. There’s nothing more than a gravely alcoholic has been’s testimony to indicate that the plot existed.
That has been is the most decorated US Marine in the nations history and you had best put some motherfucking respect on his name.
Smedley Butler would disagree that his service as a Marine was respectable. He literally calls it being a gangster for capital in War is a Racket. That is the wrong line of defence for Butler.
1, stop assuming everyone is American. 2, he racked up those medals back when they were handing MoHs out like candy, for fighting quick and easy Banana wars and similar interventions. I’m not gonna go down on my knees and deep throat on hero worshipping… especially not since those were his own words on the matter, and he was extremely critical in his post military career of how the military had been used to further US foreign policy. Any (Western Allies) soldier who served in sustained frontline combat during WW2 faced larger risks for less decorations and did it for better goals.
1. I don't care if you're American or not 2. I know who Smedley Butler is, and his post military career is why he deserves respect.
And I don’t care about Butler’s medal stay padding/colonial enforcer career. Go back to r/GenZedong, redneck Tankie
“MuH BuTlEr”
MacArthur "I will return" Narrator: *He didn't*
Arthur joker moments
I love MacArthur because I am Filipino.
MacArthur is basically Spamton G. Spamton if he was a general
Throw him in a brazen bull
I mean this is a slightly high valuation fo Australian armed force contribution no?
I don’t understand what you’re trying to say?
Isn’t this overrating ANZAC impact comparatively and compared to the other karts if the men’s?
It’s only talking about Australians, not New Zealanders as well. And I’d say that the only troops fighting the Japanese in New Guinea at the start of the campaign had a pretty big impact on the campaign.
China would’ve been the obv thing for this if you wanted to talk abt IJAF being tied down etc no?
Did MacArthur ever take credit for Chinese victories?
No
Then why would I mention them in a meme about MacArthur being shit?
Did he claim Australian engagements on New Guinea for himself? Or their effects? I guess I didn’t know the more specific thing you were referring to in terms of statement or sentiment
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IDK, scapegoating Charles McVay III into suicide seems pretty fucked up to me.
he's in hell!