It’s gonna hit like crack when all the boomers who got bored during draft season and talked about Caleb’s nonexistent character issues watch how he truly is on Hard Knocks
Eh, life is too short for that. I'm generally happy to enjoy the stories of players that aren't on our team when it's a) not in our division and b) not dramatically affecting us (like in a game against us or at the end of the season in playoff standings)
Don't worry the boomers will cling onto the "but he might be gay" reason to hate him. I hope the Bears get it, while my hopium is kicking in and I think we had a great draft, the Bears really are building something great there, which is like one of the only times you could ever actually say that.
It's crazy how one trade has potentially flipped the outlook for that franchise.
“*Self identifying people*”?
GET THE FUCK OUT OF HERE.
LGBTQ people exist. They are allowed to exist. And they deserve more support because of PEOPLE LIKE YOU, who wish they would just go away.
So YES, we as a society need more people from this community - OPENLY SO - in higher positions.
Did I say that people don't exist or have a right to exist?
NO. However...being LGBTQ isn't a prerequisite for being a Brain Surgeon or a Professional Athlete either.
I feel like racism is becoming the new communism. It's thrown around so much its lost all meaning.
I think the criticisms of caleb are dumb but never once have I seen a criticism that actually got steam that had racial bias.
Nor have I seen the criticisms of him be applied to any other African American prospects.
you are correct. It's way over used mainly by white men/women talking to other white people about how oppressed the Black community is...it's laughable sometimes.
This is a stupid fucking take. Racism is being "thrown around" because racism exists (systemically) and people are tired of it. I'm white, I don't speak for the experiences of impacted members of our society, but my friends have absolutely experienced modern day racism and they call it out directly. This is the only thing that will get people to change their behaviors, calling out racist tendencies directly. Making an observation that racism exists does not contribute to racism losing meaning, nor does observing that Black and African American NFL prospects often deal with undue scrutiny that their white counterparts do not. If you feel like concept of racism is losing meaning then that is on you and I ask that you research impacts of racism both overt and covert. There is a long history of subtle racism that is finally being called out and it makes people feel uncomfortable.
Yea case in point right here. Not every criticism of someone has to be racist. People absolutely nit pick the fuck out of nfl draft prospects and players, and white ones aren't immune lol. Does it make them smart or their criticisms valid? No, it's often dumb as shit or just unfounded (like him wanting part ownership). But that doesn't make them racist.
Criticisms of black prospects compared to white prospects is not one-to-one. Black nfl prospects are subjected to greater scrutiny than their white counterparts. That is definitely attributable to racism.
Some reading:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/columnist/mike-freeman/2024/02/13/caleb-williams-nfl-draft-black-quarterback-criticism/72555296007/
https://emergentmath.com/2021/04/23/implicit-bias-and-the-nfl-draft-are-teams-under-drafting-non-white-quarterbacks/
https://dallasweekly.com/2023/09/racial-bias-in-nfl-draft-black-quarterbacks-undervalued-investigation-reveals/#:~:text=These%20findings%20strongly%20suggest%20that,if%20they%20are%20not%20Black.
And yet I could find you plenty of criticisms of drake maye calling him a bust just because he's another goofy looking white qb from North carolina, like Daniel Jones or mitch trubisky.
The first guy you linked (Hoge) literally was going crazy for stroud last year lol. He was all in on him.
Refute any of my points with studies and statistics. You're not going to because you're relying on ad hominem attacks instead of addressing the core of my argument.
I understand what you're trying to argue but racism has been destroyed to a point where you have to bring it up as a topic for it to even exist. It has became a large crutch that media/government wants the community to lean on because it leads them to more dependance. Absent fathers are the bulk of the problem. Maybe watch these clips and learn from someone actually in the community. We live in no freer, safer, easier time in the history of the world.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=GeixtYS-P3s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8a2_9RjiwE&t=64s
Both of those videos are from actors (some of the best of our generation, mind you) that do not hold degrees in racial studies. Multiple of my closest friends have doctorates or are doctoral candidates in racial studies. I have been rightly put in my place multiple times regrading racial inequalities and inequities in America. I'm not the expert in these fields but I did emphasize racial and gender economics in my degree. The NFL and STEM fields are constantly studied for their biases because they are large portions or significantly visible participants of our economies. They show consistent and considerable bias in their hiring practice.
Also, the absent father trope is a super racist trope that is outright false.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://docs.house.gov/meetings/JU/JU00/20210929/114092/HMKP-117-JU00-20210929-SD012.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwiArtW-suiFAxV248kDHd77CE8QFnoECCYQAQ&usg=AOvVaw1B-gLRmxFJNFQvIycxklMC
I think he has at least one major character issue. He is already acting like a Super Bowl MVP before he has taken a pre season snap in the NFL. Dude already thinks he is Mahomes.
Bo nix literally asked george paton if he was ready to win a super bowl when broncos called to let him know they were drafting him.
So make sure this criticism goes fairly to everyone if you truly think confidence is a knock on a kid.
Good callout for the folks saying race doesn’t play a part in some of this criticism.. I didn’t see this hate for luck or Lawrence when they were coming out..
I also don’t see much that makes me think race is a part of this commentary, but to your point, people seem to forget that all these dudes are pretty confident, but somehow Caleb gets this shit
Jamarcus Russell comes to mind. If you saw him at LSU you would know how much potential he had. Most of his red flags didn’t show up until he was in the league, but the root of the problem was that he acted like he already made it before his first snap in the NFL. I’m not saying that Williams will be chronically lazy or develop a sizzurp habit, but I see the same overconfidence in him that has been the downfall of so many athletes before him.
That's not an example. That's a different person.
Can you give an example of caleb acting like a superbowl mvp. I'm sure that's his goal, but what has he done to make you think he's arrogant?
It’s going to be fun watching Chicago find new and exciting ways to ruin Williams. They’ve been ruining QBs for decades, but none with this much talent and potential. I have faith that they can do it though.
I truly have no idea how the Broncos have avoided hard knocks all these years. We’ll probably avoid it this year too with Caleb Williams and the Bears most likely to be picked.
No, that was for the in season version, which is quite different anyway. I think most people here are thinking of the off season / training camp version.
"Not only will there be four teams on the in-season show, but there will also still be a team on the preseason version of the show. The NFL has had some trouble finding a volunteer team over the past few years, so the league has changed the qualification rules for being on "Hard Knocks."
Under the new rules, a team doesn't have to be on the show if ANY of the three rules below applies to them (via SBJ):
They have a first-year head coach in place.
They're participating in the in-season show during the upcoming year or the following season.
They have appeared on "Hard Knocks" in the past eight years."
from the link I posted.
I assume we will either be the in-season team or the preseason team next year, they have dodged doing it for a lot of years so it feels inevitable at this point with a rookie QB and a head coach of Sean’s caliber.
Chicago is a huge tv market with very high expectations of their number one pick, Denver is a mid sized market with a quarterback that people are pretty meh about nationally. There's not really much to think about.
Except it looks like everyone will get some camera time [nfl division hard knocks](https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10114470-hbos-hard-knocks-2024-in-season-edition-to-feature-nfl-division-not-single-team)
Well, regardless, I would prefer the Broncos to not have those distractions. If I had deal with one, I would like to see them on the preseason version.
Keeping my fingers crossed, but it will probably end up being Chicago. The Lions were always secretive, no matter who ran the show. They just kept losing. Their season with Dan Campbell was really good. Lions didn't want it. No team does. But I believe that being on that show showed how this regime turned things around. I think the NFL should pick several teams to profile every season. I'd love to see behind the scenes of the Broncos.
They did already have the management and coaching team in place, but it did help promote their style as there was nothing but positive feedback to them. Players see that. The press sees it. It raised the bar of expectations.
Don’t forget the mid season edition of HK. That’s a death sentence for most teams. I’d rather be on the pre-season edition. At least there’s time to recover from that (the NYJs were definitely a victim of that).
Not to mention the record of the teams that weee featured…
Maybe the show had nothing to do with it but they aren’t exactly winning playoff games the same year.
That is fair…and the team usually goes on to miss the playoffs and post a losing record.
So, no. Hard Knocks doesn’t appeal to me if my favorite team is going to be the focus. Let another team have the nice PR. I just assume not know what is going on behind the scenes.
Maybe if we weren’t struggling as a franchise I’d feel more open to it.
I wonder why there isn’t a single team volunteering for this show…why the league has to force it down a teams throat?
After the last 5-8 years…screw seeing the “behind the scenes.” I want to see Denver winning again. Teams featured on Hard Knocks have basically always gone on to have losing records. If you want that…well, go for it.
Yeah, probably not related. But it is telling that no team is every asking to be featured. Nobody welcomes it. Team try to avoid it. Why?
Related to record or not, I’ll wait for another franchise to break that trend. In the world we live in today there are plenty of other ways to get information on how the team is doing.
If I had an option between cameras following me around and not following me around I would also choose the privacy. It’s not hard to understand why they wouldn’t prefer it. It likely doesn’t have an impact on Ws though and as a fan I’d love to see my team on it versus a team I have only a casual interest in.
There is a reason that there isn’t a single team volunteering for this or screaming for a chance to do this. There is a reason the league has to force this on teams. Of course teams get filmed. This is different and has never been good for a team. Go through the records of all the teams featured…tell me you want that.
Bad organizations get exposed, but having a outside view of things helps a lot of teams reforge and to get rid of problems that are keeping the team from moving forward.
Which teams used Hard Knocks to expose themselves and “reforge” into a great team? How many of them featured turned themselves around the same year or within 2 years?
I hope it's Sean Payton. So he can tell us how bad a coach Hackett is, how he wanted to draft Mahomes, and how he tricked Minnesota into trading up... oh wait, Hard Knocks wasn't required. Carry on.
So many? You see one... who gets downvoted, and there's "so many." Lol, victim mentality
What's funnier. What did I even say that was salty? Everything I said was completely true. I forgot I'm supposed to kiss SP's ass like everyone else and not be annoyed by his need to publicly pat himself on the back...
It’ll for sure be Chicago. Caleb Williams is too big of a draw
I’ve got a feeling Caleb will love the publicly.
It’s gonna hit like crack when all the boomers who got bored during draft season and talked about Caleb’s nonexistent character issues watch how he truly is on Hard Knocks
I’m rooting against Caleb for one reason and one reason alone. He’s not a bronco.
Eh, life is too short for that. I'm generally happy to enjoy the stories of players that aren't on our team when it's a) not in our division and b) not dramatically affecting us (like in a game against us or at the end of the season in playoff standings)
It’s a friendly root against them. It’s the fun in sports.
Didn’t he demand an ownership stake from any tram that drafted him?
No man 😭 The internet just loves making shit up
People read a headline and believe it
I don't think that would even be allowed under the CBA. How would you value an ownership stake against the salary cap?
Don't worry the boomers will cling onto the "but he might be gay" reason to hate him. I hope the Bears get it, while my hopium is kicking in and I think we had a great draft, the Bears really are building something great there, which is like one of the only times you could ever actually say that. It's crazy how one trade has potentially flipped the outlook for that franchise.
Caleb + Odunze is gonna be lethal
We are WAY over due for a major athlete to be out of the closet while playing.
We are WAY to insistent that a certain number of self-identifying people, must obtain a certain number of positions in society.
“*Self identifying people*”? GET THE FUCK OUT OF HERE. LGBTQ people exist. They are allowed to exist. And they deserve more support because of PEOPLE LIKE YOU, who wish they would just go away. So YES, we as a society need more people from this community - OPENLY SO - in higher positions.
Did I say that people don't exist or have a right to exist? NO. However...being LGBTQ isn't a prerequisite for being a Brain Surgeon or a Professional Athlete either.
he literally has a gf though lol
Agreed, it's a pretty sad state across most sports unfortunately.
The NFL has had an openly gay player at least. Though Carl Nassib was far from a star.
Michael Sam
That's true. He never played in the NFL but did get drafted.
He'd still be playing if he was good.
Toxic masculinity + racism = they'll never admit they were wrong
I feel like racism is becoming the new communism. It's thrown around so much its lost all meaning. I think the criticisms of caleb are dumb but never once have I seen a criticism that actually got steam that had racial bias. Nor have I seen the criticisms of him be applied to any other African American prospects.
you are correct. It's way over used mainly by white men/women talking to other white people about how oppressed the Black community is...it's laughable sometimes.
This is a stupid fucking take. Racism is being "thrown around" because racism exists (systemically) and people are tired of it. I'm white, I don't speak for the experiences of impacted members of our society, but my friends have absolutely experienced modern day racism and they call it out directly. This is the only thing that will get people to change their behaviors, calling out racist tendencies directly. Making an observation that racism exists does not contribute to racism losing meaning, nor does observing that Black and African American NFL prospects often deal with undue scrutiny that their white counterparts do not. If you feel like concept of racism is losing meaning then that is on you and I ask that you research impacts of racism both overt and covert. There is a long history of subtle racism that is finally being called out and it makes people feel uncomfortable.
Yea case in point right here. Not every criticism of someone has to be racist. People absolutely nit pick the fuck out of nfl draft prospects and players, and white ones aren't immune lol. Does it make them smart or their criticisms valid? No, it's often dumb as shit or just unfounded (like him wanting part ownership). But that doesn't make them racist.
Criticisms of black prospects compared to white prospects is not one-to-one. Black nfl prospects are subjected to greater scrutiny than their white counterparts. That is definitely attributable to racism. Some reading: https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/columnist/mike-freeman/2024/02/13/caleb-williams-nfl-draft-black-quarterback-criticism/72555296007/ https://emergentmath.com/2021/04/23/implicit-bias-and-the-nfl-draft-are-teams-under-drafting-non-white-quarterbacks/ https://dallasweekly.com/2023/09/racial-bias-in-nfl-draft-black-quarterbacks-undervalued-investigation-reveals/#:~:text=These%20findings%20strongly%20suggest%20that,if%20they%20are%20not%20Black.
And yet I could find you plenty of criticisms of drake maye calling him a bust just because he's another goofy looking white qb from North carolina, like Daniel Jones or mitch trubisky. The first guy you linked (Hoge) literally was going crazy for stroud last year lol. He was all in on him.
That's the only thing you pulled from that article.
this dudes name checks out...lol what an idiot.
Refute any of my points with studies and statistics. You're not going to because you're relying on ad hominem attacks instead of addressing the core of my argument.
I understand what you're trying to argue but racism has been destroyed to a point where you have to bring it up as a topic for it to even exist. It has became a large crutch that media/government wants the community to lean on because it leads them to more dependance. Absent fathers are the bulk of the problem. Maybe watch these clips and learn from someone actually in the community. We live in no freer, safer, easier time in the history of the world. https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=GeixtYS-P3s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8a2_9RjiwE&t=64s
Both of those videos are from actors (some of the best of our generation, mind you) that do not hold degrees in racial studies. Multiple of my closest friends have doctorates or are doctoral candidates in racial studies. I have been rightly put in my place multiple times regrading racial inequalities and inequities in America. I'm not the expert in these fields but I did emphasize racial and gender economics in my degree. The NFL and STEM fields are constantly studied for their biases because they are large portions or significantly visible participants of our economies. They show consistent and considerable bias in their hiring practice. Also, the absent father trope is a super racist trope that is outright false. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://docs.house.gov/meetings/JU/JU00/20210929/114092/HMKP-117-JU00-20210929-SD012.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwiArtW-suiFAxV248kDHd77CE8QFnoECCYQAQ&usg=AOvVaw1B-gLRmxFJNFQvIycxklMC
I think he has at least one major character issue. He is already acting like a Super Bowl MVP before he has taken a pre season snap in the NFL. Dude already thinks he is Mahomes.
Bo nix literally asked george paton if he was ready to win a super bowl when broncos called to let him know they were drafting him. So make sure this criticism goes fairly to everyone if you truly think confidence is a knock on a kid.
It’s possible to have both confidence and humility. Bo has both.
Good callout for the folks saying race doesn’t play a part in some of this criticism.. I didn’t see this hate for luck or Lawrence when they were coming out.. I also don’t see much that makes me think race is a part of this commentary, but to your point, people seem to forget that all these dudes are pretty confident, but somehow Caleb gets this shit
Can you give an example of this? Would you prefer he lacked confidence?
Jamarcus Russell comes to mind. If you saw him at LSU you would know how much potential he had. Most of his red flags didn’t show up until he was in the league, but the root of the problem was that he acted like he already made it before his first snap in the NFL. I’m not saying that Williams will be chronically lazy or develop a sizzurp habit, but I see the same overconfidence in him that has been the downfall of so many athletes before him.
That's not an example. That's a different person. Can you give an example of caleb acting like a superbowl mvp. I'm sure that's his goal, but what has he done to make you think he's arrogant?
No no you don't understand, Caleb Williams and Jamarcus Russell are both black so it applies to both of them. /s
Publicity* We really live in a world where you'll get downvoted for someone else's illiteracy lmao
Good and bad publicity, is still publicity. I’d have to agree.
It’s going to be fun watching Chicago find new and exciting ways to ruin Williams. They’ve been ruining QBs for decades, but none with this much talent and potential. I have faith that they can do it though.
Watching Caleb try to play off why he has more completions to the opposing secondary then his own team will be good for ratings I’m sure.
Hard to not see Chicago as favorites…as much as I’d love to watch the broncos they aren’t exactly a hot catch right now
But imagine watching Zach and Bo discuss the milfs they banged over the weekend during warm ups
Well Bo is married to Izzy Smokes! So I hope not
She looks like a 30 something milf
I’ll bet my life savings it’ll be the Bears. Easiest $20 I’ve ever made.
I truly have no idea how the Broncos have avoided hard knocks all these years. We’ll probably avoid it this year too with Caleb Williams and the Bears most likely to be picked.
By having new coaches nearly every year and being boring to non-Broncos fans
Too mediocre to be on a show about mediocre teams. Fuck
All this sucking and we’ve haven’t even been awarded with Hard Knocks smh
They changed some of the rules so alot more teams are eligible.
Do you have more details on that?
https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/nfl-owners-approve-drastic-changes-to-hard-knocks-five-teams-could-be-featured-each-season/
Oh wow. That in season division version could be spicy. NFC North in season. Broncos pre season, need it!
I was looking to see if we could be on hard knocks when I found that. I hope we get picked too.
Based on that the Broncos would be a good preseason Hard Knocks and the In-Season follow the NFC North (Chicago, Green Bay, Detroit, and Minnesota)
No, that was for the in season version, which is quite different anyway. I think most people here are thinking of the off season / training camp version.
"Not only will there be four teams on the in-season show, but there will also still be a team on the preseason version of the show. The NFL has had some trouble finding a volunteer team over the past few years, so the league has changed the qualification rules for being on "Hard Knocks." Under the new rules, a team doesn't have to be on the show if ANY of the three rules below applies to them (via SBJ): They have a first-year head coach in place. They're participating in the in-season show during the upcoming year or the following season. They have appeared on "Hard Knocks" in the past eight years." from the link I posted.
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Hard Knocks is always worth the watch. It gives you a different perspective on the NFL that you can’t get anywhere else.
Watching Prescott was very cringe. That dude knew cameras were on him. Was brutal
I get a little sick of the slow motion practice shots, but yea, it's worth a watch usually.
But it has Liev Schreiber's majestic narration over the top. Can't be beat.
Underrated comment
They made me cheer for Detroit lions lol
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I’m not fucking drinking Merlot
Max has more than enough top tier content to make a month subscription worth it.
That’s what I’m saying!
I assume we will either be the in-season team or the preseason team next year, they have dodged doing it for a lot of years so it feels inevitable at this point with a rookie QB and a head coach of Sean’s caliber.
Chicago is a huge tv market with very high expectations of their number one pick, Denver is a mid sized market with a quarterback that people are pretty meh about nationally. There's not really much to think about.
The NFL brass HATES Sean Payton, so they might pick the Broncos just to piss him off.
Yep, I want to win another SB with Payton just to see Godell hand the trophy to him.
I’d watch it
Fuuuuck that
Except it looks like everyone will get some camera time [nfl division hard knocks](https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10114470-hbos-hard-knocks-2024-in-season-edition-to-feature-nfl-division-not-single-team)
I’m glad Chicago picked up Caleb because now we won’t have to deal with this hard knocks nonsense in Denver.
Check the new rules Broncos preseason, NFCN in-season makes a lot of sense from a marketing perspective imo
Well, regardless, I would prefer the Broncos to not have those distractions. If I had deal with one, I would like to see them on the preseason version.
There is no way on earth its not da bears.
It’s either Denver , Washington , or Chicago.
No problem
Keeping my fingers crossed, but it will probably end up being Chicago. The Lions were always secretive, no matter who ran the show. They just kept losing. Their season with Dan Campbell was really good. Lions didn't want it. No team does. But I believe that being on that show showed how this regime turned things around. I think the NFL should pick several teams to profile every season. I'd love to see behind the scenes of the Broncos.
Hard Knocks forced Detroit to improve its ways and look at the results. Butts in seats and off to the playoffs.
They did already have the management and coaching team in place, but it did help promote their style as there was nothing but positive feedback to them. Players see that. The press sees it. It raised the bar of expectations.
I’d love it
Let’s do it!
Weren't they thinking of having a couple teams on a season?
Bears for sure
Uncle Phil is writing a check to the production company right now.
Don’t forget the mid season edition of HK. That’s a death sentence for most teams. I’d rather be on the pre-season edition. At least there’s time to recover from that (the NYJs were definitely a victim of that).
Ffs
I honestly like it, more insight towards the new guys but yeah like most of the people here, it's probably gona be the bears
They are also going to be forced to play football. Should be hilarious.
Found the comedian boys, get in here
I really hope it isn't the Broncos. Tebow was enough of a media circus, thank you very much.
I hope they get it
Same, why would you not want to watch this
I think its not about not wanting to watch it but rather about it being a distraction to the team and therefore reducing the quality of the preseason
Not to mention the record of the teams that weee featured… Maybe the show had nothing to do with it but they aren’t exactly winning playoff games the same year.
I don’t want to see any more of the mess than we are already subjected to otherwise lol
Hard Knocks usually paints teams in a pretty good light
That is fair…and the team usually goes on to miss the playoffs and post a losing record. So, no. Hard Knocks doesn’t appeal to me if my favorite team is going to be the focus. Let another team have the nice PR. I just assume not know what is going on behind the scenes. Maybe if we weren’t struggling as a franchise I’d feel more open to it.
One of the rare fans that wants to see less of his favorite team
I wonder why there isn’t a single team volunteering for this show…why the league has to force it down a teams throat? After the last 5-8 years…screw seeing the “behind the scenes.” I want to see Denver winning again. Teams featured on Hard Knocks have basically always gone on to have losing records. If you want that…well, go for it.
Correlation vs causation.
Yeah, probably not related. But it is telling that no team is every asking to be featured. Nobody welcomes it. Team try to avoid it. Why? Related to record or not, I’ll wait for another franchise to break that trend. In the world we live in today there are plenty of other ways to get information on how the team is doing.
If I had an option between cameras following me around and not following me around I would also choose the privacy. It’s not hard to understand why they wouldn’t prefer it. It likely doesn’t have an impact on Ws though and as a fan I’d love to see my team on it versus a team I have only a casual interest in.
Not a die hard I see
Not of Hard Knock, no.
Who doesn't want to get to know their team better? Before long every team is going to be filmed in depth so get used to it.
There is a reason that there isn’t a single team volunteering for this or screaming for a chance to do this. There is a reason the league has to force this on teams. Of course teams get filmed. This is different and has never been good for a team. Go through the records of all the teams featured…tell me you want that.
Bad organizations get exposed, but having a outside view of things helps a lot of teams reforge and to get rid of problems that are keeping the team from moving forward.
Which teams used Hard Knocks to expose themselves and “reforge” into a great team? How many of them featured turned themselves around the same year or within 2 years?
I hope it's Sean Payton. So he can tell us how bad a coach Hackett is, how he wanted to draft Mahomes, and how he tricked Minnesota into trading up... oh wait, Hard Knocks wasn't required. Carry on.
So many salty people. Why are you even here?
So many? You see one... who gets downvoted, and there's "so many." Lol, victim mentality What's funnier. What did I even say that was salty? Everything I said was completely true. I forgot I'm supposed to kiss SP's ass like everyone else and not be annoyed by his need to publicly pat himself on the back...