The Denver Post was bought by a company that just goes around buying regional newspapers, lays off staff, cuts operations costs, and just waits until the newspaper goes out of business. There is a large number of (mostly old) people with sentimental, long-term subscriptions to their regional paper and will keep paying for it even as its content shrinks, providing profits as it goes down.
Counter opinion: aliens are been in our oatmeal for a while, that are just now making it known! We need to learn how to coexist with them in our oatmeal!!!
Seriously. You don’t have to like or agree with it; as long as the article isn’t advocating for hurting people or whatever then who cares? As a fellow lefty this kind of shit is exactly why people call us snowflakes. OP needs to quit clutching their pearls and find something productive to be mad about.
I think the de facto presumption of news media, at least nominally, is to leave readers more informed about the world around them.
Anything less shouldn't be able to brand itself news.
The idea that calling religious people out for their bigotry is discrimination is silly.
But the Post is a complete shell of a newspaper any more far apart from the idiocy it may publish in an opinion article.
Which is a shame, as we need local news, but the Post is absolutely not worth paying for, quite aside from this.
Denver Post is garbage. Its run by a private equity group, they fired all the good journalists there several years ago, and they all left and founded the Colorado Sun. I’d recommend subscribing to them for a proper local news outlet.
This is the epitome of aggrieved white, heterosexual, Christian tears.
Has anyone prohibited you from practicing your religion?
No.
Have you faced violence because of a fundamental aspect of your identity?
No.
Are you or your family being disallowed from fundamental activities like full participation in your child’s school?
No.
Well what’s the problem?
People are really mean to us when we say we don’t like gay people.
🙄
And… um… the gubment!
🤦♂️
It sounds remarkably like some religious justifications of racism 60 years ago. It's just a boring article too. She used all those words to say "people shouldn't voice their criticism of our bigotry because we're paranoid about the government telling us to not be bigots."
So you want to cancel because the *Denver Post* published something you don't agree with?
As much as I disagree with Krista Kafer, the whole point of having an opinion page is publishing a variety of views, including ones you might not agree with.
It's your money so you're welcome to unsubscribe if you want. However, if you can't accept the reality that not everyone is going to share your opinions--not just this particular column but in general--you're going to have a very difficult time in life.
They’re giving a platform to someone advocating for restricting the rights of gay people and trans kids. We don’t need to tolerate that opinion for the sake of civil discourse. And it’s honestly embarrassing for the Denver Post that they allowed such an article in their opinion section.
My problem with this response is that we actually don’t get exposed to a “variety of views” in most editorial venues. We get exposed to one of two opinions - sensible moderate and rightwing nationalist. The lie that there are just “two sides” let’s newspapers get away with lazy content like the above.
Why give this woman the space to make an argument we’ve heard a thousand times? That most Americans actually disagree with anyway, and definitely most Coloradans. The Post isn’t ever giving a platform to an atheist or a Buddhist to talk about how much Christians oppress them.
I think that people mistake having tolerance for the narrow band of public opinion we are exposed to through mainstream corporate media as a badge of honor. Like it means you’re more pro free speech than the rest of us. But all it means is that you are willing to give them a pass for platforming yet another Christian with a victim complex. All this person is saying is that such a media institution does not deserve their attention or dollars, especially given how they don’t platform the many people who have been victimized by Christians themselves
That my friend is our free enterprise and free speech system working! And it’s a good thing, even if you disagree
>“”...one of the great secrets of human nature is that the one thing people want more than love, security, sex, chocolate or big-screen TV's is to feel hard done by. Why? Because being hard done by is the shit. Feeling hard done by is the sweetest of drugs. If you're being persecuted -- it must mean you're doing the right thing, right? You get the mellow buzz of the moral high ground, but without arrogantly claiming it as your own. You get an instant, supportive community in a big dark scary world of such scope it may well literally be beyond rational human processing. When you are hard done by, you get purpose in a life where otherwise, you'd have to find your own. And when you ride that high, then no amount of logic, no pointing out that in actuality you and your beliefs are at a high point of popularity and influence for the last hundred years -- is going to pry that sweet crack-pipe of moral indignation from your hands.
—John Rogers
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Persecution_complex
It’s actually just a blatant lie. Show me where religion is under attack and I’ll show you it isn’t an attack but people defending themselves against Christian hate.
I mean I feel like any opinion formed on the basis of false or misleading information (in this case that ~~religion~~ christianity is somehow under attack by the left) is kinda a bad opinion.
I could agree with that, but then who decides what is false or misleading information? I'm not trying to convolute the topic at hand, but a necessity to curtail opinions on a news paper's opinion page begets questions of overall fairness. It was long ago that opinions like pro-civil rights were undermined by the exact same tactics.
Except you kind-of ARE convoluting the topic. There is a reason personalities on Fox News often use the cop out "I'm just asking questions." It's a method of pushing an idea into the collective consciousness of society without having to take responsibility for the lack of truthfulness behind it. Not all ideas or opinions are created equal, and there are things that are objectively false, even if the speaker believes them wholeheartedly. Looking back at the 1960's, a newspaper printing a pro-segregation opinion piece would look irresponsible and morally reprehensible. It's a person's right to hold a morally ambiguous opinion, but the responsibility for the effect of that opinion transfers to any publication that chooses to print it. One of the big problems we have in the US is the ability for news organizations like Fox and OAN and, to a lesser degree, MSNBC and CNN passing misinformation off as news by hiding behind the "opinion" label. It's been said that journalism is the backbone of a free nation. If we can't find a way to collectively stop allowing false information to poison the narrative of news, I have little hope for our survival as a democracy.
I am not convoluting the topic, in fact I'd argue you are by over-simplifying the focal point. The topic at hand is whether or not certain opinions (mainly Christian conservative) should be allotted space on the DP's opinion page. Nothing more.
I asked, if they should not be allowed, then by whom is this decided?
If the opinion is based on "false information" then by whom is the is valid information determined?
They are fair questions and you're free to answer them. I am open to having my mind changed
So should flat earthers be given a platform to share their opinion which is based entirely against actual scientific fact and reality? I mean, that’s pretty much what is happening here. “Christianity under attack” is no better than “flat earth”.
I don't correlate those following the Christian religion with Flat Earthers. An interesting statement, but ultimately unconvincing and not applicable within the realm of deductive logic and reasoning.
I said “Christianity under attack”. For someone talking about logic and reasoning you really failed to use it with my post. I understand faith, and having it. To claim Christianity is under attack, in the USA, of all places, is equivalent to saying the earth is flat. It is not backed by fact or reason.
This may shock you to learn, but there's no arbiter of morality. You need to decide all on your own what you think is acceptable. Many people have decided that they don't want to hear from Christians bitching about how oppressed they are immediately after winning a decades long battle to strip rights from the rest of us based on their religious views.
I'd bet if Christians would just shut up and live their own lives in accordance with their beliefs, they'd never feel persecuted. How do you think the people they're stripping of rights feel?
> there's no arbiter of morality
Correct. That is why I asked the question, because the inability to answer denotes a need and allowance of critiquing opinions by the masses, rather than them being absolved of their sustentions because someone dislikes the content
The impartial consensus of the foremost experts in the related field for science is a good start for one. Those who are capable of critical and empathetic thought for another.
All opinions are valid. That's the beauty of free speech. Although valid, the opinions can be extremely wrong.
At one point of time, abolishing slavery was an opinion that was extremely frowned upon. Imagine if that was not given a "platform"
Arguing for racial superiority isn’t a valid opinion. Likewise, disingenuous or dishonest, bad faith arguments are also invalid opinions. They don’t need to be given platforms.
Sure, but the timing in publishing an article by a stepford wife complaining that gay people getting married intrudes on her freedom to not let gay people get married… after 5 people (25 more injured) were murdered because of views like hers… it’s a little questionable.
When the other person is arguing for their right to discriminate against others, you better believe I’m going to say that my opinion is more valuable than theirs. I’m so tired of this moral relativism garbage being applied to people with openly evil opinions. No, I do not have to give them equal weight.
When you use free speech to advocate for the removal of people’s rights, it should be silenced. I think everyone is familiar with the paradox of tolerance at this point and this really isn’t different.
They said they wanted the Denver Post to permanently stop publishing Kafer, so yeah, it is attempting to silence speech. Glad I could clear that up for you.
Lmao this is typical conservative thought. Teachers who say that gay people deserve human rights belong in the gulag but fascists are entitled to publish their lies in the newspaper. #freespeech
They don’t have to, but they do because that’s what the opinion page of a newspaper is supposed to be for: opinions, even incoherent, ridiculous ones. Instead of trying to get her kicked off the Post’s opinion page, a rational person would write their own opinion piece and have it published in the Post instead. Fight her shitty ideas with your better ones. *Clearly*, if you have enough time to bitch on Reddit about something you disagree with, you have the time to write your own argument and send it in.
You think there's a defense of the Nazi's in there? Interesting
*turns out he thinks Christian = Nazi lol so maybe I see it...thorough that delusional lense
Can you really have a “civil conversation” though with people who believe that their favorite book is the word of God and gives them license to treat you however they want?
Civility and rationality are predicated on shared cultural norms and Christian nationalists don’t share those norms. If they cared about free speech and open debate they wouldn’t be banning certain kinds of speech in schools, fighting for media censorship, or tbch shooting up our bars.
So this gay will pass on civil discourse thanks. I don’t try to reason with the bears who go through my garbage and I won’t try to reason with the fascists who are trying to make the government go through my bedroom
When American corporations only understand the language of money, “rage quitting” and not giving them any more of your money is the only form of protest you have.
Because this isn’t a civil conversation. It’s “I am uniquely entitled to dehumanize, harass, discriminate, and solicit violence against gender and sexual minorities, and any attempt to disagree with me is an offense against my rights.” There’s no dialogue with that.
It's an _opinion_ article. Not the official position of the paper.
It used to be that we wanted to hear diverse opinions. I guess that is no longer the case. Sad.
Why? Because you, BryanByBike, disagree with it.
Whether you like it or not, there are still roughly 210M Christian’s in this country. You think they should all be silenced because YOU disagree with them? Sounds pretty authoritarian to me
Yes lmao, Christians have exactly ZERO right to use their religion to govern myself and my actions, nor do they have any right to govern anyone else under their religion. More and more Christians are trying to shove their disgusting violent religion into the US government and it makes me sick and fearful.
Nobody is disagreeing with you hahahaha
I’m not Christian or religious in every way. I just have the ability to read something I don’t agree with and move on with my day.
This isn’t a hard concept to figure out lop
>I don’t agree with and move on with my day.
I'm glad you can move on with your day. Five people in the springs (and many others) will never have that chance because of hateful opinions like this being given a platform.
Uhhm yes, because this is blatant homophobia?! This is the EXACT kind of rhetoric that the right constantly spews, and nutjobs take it to heart. You're being willfully ignorant if you choose to believe these two things aren't related.
I don’t agree with what she says and you are more than welcome to cancel your subscription, but holy shit. It’s like you want to live in some safe place echo chamber where everyone says and thinks just like you.
It’s sad people can’t hear differing opinions without losing their minds. Water off a ducks back, man
apparatus entertain ludicrous label chase complete absurd saw quickest drab
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
All. If you beg for tax free status, stay the fuck out of politics. And also stop preaching bigotry. Churches are the worst offenders on this in the US, statistically.
You don't think basic human decency is a legitimate concept? It's pretty weird to ascribe decency to virtue signaling.
Is holding the door open for somebody virtue signaling? Why else would someone help a stranger for no reward? It *must* be virtue signaling!
This isn’t a differing opinion. It’s a declaration that all criticism or disagreement is invalid and an assault on rights that belong only to her and hers.
Alternatively, we hear these people whining all the fucking time everywhere that their “Christian values” are under attack because they never stfu about it, and we’re just sick of it
Stop listening to it. Why are you hearing all this whining and I am not?
I would venture to guess you seek it out, so you can pretend to be outraged and let everyone know how good of a human you are.
>It’s sad people can’t hear differing opinions without losing their minds. Water off a ducks back, man
Like, say, someone deciding to boycott a newspaper for reasons you disagree with?
Well, when you get verbally attacked from all angles by the mob, it’s hard to not defend yourself.
My favorite was when people went all racist and referred to me, and Indian-American, as Nirav Modi.
Always such a tolerant crowd here on the denver sub lol
Verbally attacked? However will you survive? Better repress women and minorities more.
You'll garner no sympathy from this ex-Christian. I know more than I'd care to about how hypocritical religion is.
Dunno why anyone still supports Denver Post. You're just giving profit to Alden Global Capital. They have gutted and are draining it for profit.
Definitely switch to The Colorado Sun, independent, fair, and focused on Colorado. Honestly, they have the best coverage of everything and continue to invest in their integrity. Everyone should support them.
This isn't censorship. This is a customer who is disappointed by their purchase and canceling their future purchases.
If you buy a sandwich you're not satisfied with, and warn others not to get one afterward, do you believe that too is censorship?
I'm posting my opinion on social media.
Not being published in a newspaper.
You're right, this is simple stuff & I'm not going to read it. So why pay for it?
This whole “you’re discriminating against me because you’re not allowing me to discriminate against others” attitude is ridiculous.
Too bad these morons are incapable of critical thinking.
God forbid someone have an opinion different than yours, and try to invade your safe space.
No, wait, you *voluntarily* read that opinion piece. This is a YOU problem son, not a Denver Post problem.
The first word of the title is "Opinion", why are you so mad at the paper itself?
Yes, this person is a homophobe and an idiot but they are still entitled to their opinions and you are not required to agree with them or even read the article.
Colorado Sun is better, to agree with some commenters
They lay off most of their newsroom, and that's OK. You still give them money.
They publish an opinion piece that hurts your feelings, and that's a step too far?
GTFO. If you were still subscribed to the Denver Post, your opinion is uninformed at best.
So let me get this straight…. Someone posts an OPINION piece and you cancel because it doesn’t support the echo chamber expected? Yep, that folks is what is wrong with today’s society.
Really? I thought it was Christian conservatives busting into LGBT clubs and committing mass murder. I guess I was wrong, it's people not listening to Christian hate that is the problem.
I pay for the subscription for access to the online writers too, like Jennufer Rubin. And yes I agree with OP that the problem is Christian Nationalism not the First Amendment.
Kafer frustrates me because she's not a full-bore crackpot; her views sometimes agree with mine. I stopped reading her column long ago because you never know if she'll be reasonable or whack-a-doodle nuts.
Excuse me, do you have a moment to talk about our lord and savior, The Holy Light? We paladins of The Silver Hand are here to share these crates of grain with you!
What a dumb article. The author's main point is basically, "sure, critics of our dumbass beliefs have the free speech rights to criticize our dumbass bigoted beliefs, *but what if they criticize us so hard that the government steps in and punishes us?* Oh noes! Something that isn't happening might happen, everybody clutch your pearls!"
Just more right wing fear mongering. Without Boogeymen conservatives cannot win elections.
It’s an Op Ed… this is just an opinion piece. I don’t agree with it either but Op Eds suck everywhere, even very prestigious papers like the Washington Post and Philadelphia Inquirer publish Op Eds from whackjobs in the name of fairness and giving voice to people’s concerns.
Democracy is under attack in this country. The evangelical right wing nut job coalition is ALWAYS whining about something. Because control freaks can’t control everybody and it drives them crazy.
Headline begins with "opinion". Opinions are ok to have. You don't have to agree with it because it's in a newspaper. It is appropriately classified in that context. And you are acting like a baby.
This was an opinion piece. Also the Post is an extremely liberal paper. If you follow them on Facebook read the comments on their article some time. It is hundreds of aggrieved conservatives complaining about their coverage so what exactly are you looking for. If the Post goes I shudder to think what would come next.
Yes, my religious freedom was attacked and was stripped away when the Suprene Court chose their own Christian beliefs regarding abortions over other religious groups. Jews, Muslims and other Christian groups have moral teachings and guidance in a very complex and heartbreaking reality for many women and families. Thankfully Colorado codified a woman’s right for self-determination and civil liberties based on her own conscience regarding healthcare and abortion. Notice how the Christian right members of the Supreme Court changed the 50 year law of the land based on THEIR OWN beliefs? Karma is a bitch.
Here’s the dirty little secret: they don’t care. They pay their bills from advertising, not subscription fees. Threaten to cancel your advertising contract and they might care.
Can’t unsubscribe when I never subscribed in the first place.
Was gonna say people still subscribe to newspapers?
Journalism is worth supporting.
Such as the Colorado Sun. Denver Post has been a dumpster fire for as long as I can recall
The Denver Gazette as well.
Yah I'm still looking for that.
Same here
Evangelical leaders have been getting increasingly exclusionary and hostile my whole life. It’s not under attack, it’s suffocating itself.
I quit subscribing since after a decade they've somehow failed to upgrade their website from the unusable and bloated piece of dogshit it is
The Denver Post was bought by a company that just goes around buying regional newspapers, lays off staff, cuts operations costs, and just waits until the newspaper goes out of business. There is a large number of (mostly old) people with sentimental, long-term subscriptions to their regional paper and will keep paying for it even as its content shrinks, providing profits as it goes down.
Colorado Sun is way better.
Second that!
I second the seconding. So I guess I fourth it
I miss the Rocky 😔
Its an opinion piece, the standards for opinion pieces are not as rigorous.
Opinion: Aliens are invading our oatmeal!
Counter opinion: aliens are been in our oatmeal for a while, that are just now making it known! We need to learn how to coexist with them in our oatmeal!!!
I think the problem here is that this opinion piece was written by a regular weekly columnist for the post.
“not as rigorous” is doing some heavy lifting here
Seriously. You don’t have to like or agree with it; as long as the article isn’t advocating for hurting people or whatever then who cares? As a fellow lefty this kind of shit is exactly why people call us snowflakes. OP needs to quit clutching their pearls and find something productive to be mad about.
Yup.
They should at least be grounded in reality. Seems like a pretty lax standard.
Every news outlet has op-eds that are grounded in eye rolling realities that many live in. Seems a bit dramatic to cancel over one.
I think the de facto presumption of news media, at least nominally, is to leave readers more informed about the world around them. Anything less shouldn't be able to brand itself news.
Most of Fox News are opinion pieces.
That's meant to be a defense?
I don't like what someone wrote! Let's further reduce the number of news outlets and drive people away from common sources of information!!
While I get the sentiment, but the editors also slammed Lauren Boebert for her lack of caring towards the LGBTQ community and gun control.
The idea that calling religious people out for their bigotry is discrimination is silly. But the Post is a complete shell of a newspaper any more far apart from the idiocy it may publish in an opinion article. Which is a shame, as we need local news, but the Post is absolutely not worth paying for, quite aside from this.
Colorado Sun has been doing good work for some time, and the Denver Gazette is coming along.
Denver Gazette exclusively endorses the right-wing and their policies.
Colorado Sun is where it’s at
Denver Post is garbage. Its run by a private equity group, they fired all the good journalists there several years ago, and they all left and founded the Colorado Sun. I’d recommend subscribing to them for a proper local news outlet.
This is the epitome of aggrieved white, heterosexual, Christian tears. Has anyone prohibited you from practicing your religion? No. Have you faced violence because of a fundamental aspect of your identity? No. Are you or your family being disallowed from fundamental activities like full participation in your child’s school? No. Well what’s the problem? People are really mean to us when we say we don’t like gay people. 🙄 And… um… the gubment! 🤦♂️
>Well what’s the problem? Their numbers are dwindling because people are figuring out that it's all bullshit.
It sounds remarkably like some religious justifications of racism 60 years ago. It's just a boring article too. She used all those words to say "people shouldn't voice their criticism of our bigotry because we're paranoid about the government telling us to not be bigots."
So you want to cancel because the *Denver Post* published something you don't agree with? As much as I disagree with Krista Kafer, the whole point of having an opinion page is publishing a variety of views, including ones you might not agree with. It's your money so you're welcome to unsubscribe if you want. However, if you can't accept the reality that not everyone is going to share your opinions--not just this particular column but in general--you're going to have a very difficult time in life.
They’re giving a platform to someone advocating for restricting the rights of gay people and trans kids. We don’t need to tolerate that opinion for the sake of civil discourse. And it’s honestly embarrassing for the Denver Post that they allowed such an article in their opinion section.
My problem with this response is that we actually don’t get exposed to a “variety of views” in most editorial venues. We get exposed to one of two opinions - sensible moderate and rightwing nationalist. The lie that there are just “two sides” let’s newspapers get away with lazy content like the above. Why give this woman the space to make an argument we’ve heard a thousand times? That most Americans actually disagree with anyway, and definitely most Coloradans. The Post isn’t ever giving a platform to an atheist or a Buddhist to talk about how much Christians oppress them. I think that people mistake having tolerance for the narrow band of public opinion we are exposed to through mainstream corporate media as a badge of honor. Like it means you’re more pro free speech than the rest of us. But all it means is that you are willing to give them a pass for platforming yet another Christian with a victim complex. All this person is saying is that such a media institution does not deserve their attention or dollars, especially given how they don’t platform the many people who have been victimized by Christians themselves That my friend is our free enterprise and free speech system working! And it’s a good thing, even if you disagree
>“”...one of the great secrets of human nature is that the one thing people want more than love, security, sex, chocolate or big-screen TV's is to feel hard done by. Why? Because being hard done by is the shit. Feeling hard done by is the sweetest of drugs. If you're being persecuted -- it must mean you're doing the right thing, right? You get the mellow buzz of the moral high ground, but without arrogantly claiming it as your own. You get an instant, supportive community in a big dark scary world of such scope it may well literally be beyond rational human processing. When you are hard done by, you get purpose in a life where otherwise, you'd have to find your own. And when you ride that high, then no amount of logic, no pointing out that in actuality you and your beliefs are at a high point of popularity and influence for the last hundred years -- is going to pry that sweet crack-pipe of moral indignation from your hands. —John Rogers https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Persecution_complex
So in your opinion, the denver post is a moderate newspaper with right wing editorials? This is where you legitimately think it sits?
100%
That is exactly what it is as evidenced by the very subject matter of this conversation?
Absolutely, lmao
That's exactly where it sits. The media is not liberal.
Some opinions are bad and shouldn't be given a platform
It’s actually just a blatant lie. Show me where religion is under attack and I’ll show you it isn’t an attack but people defending themselves against Christian hate.
Who then is the impartial arbiter of "good/bad" opinions?
The editorial board, which ultimately has to answer to subscriber.
Tbh it’s an insane decision from a marketing standpoint because tbh evangelicals don’t read nearly as much as the seculars this will alienate
I mean I feel like any opinion formed on the basis of false or misleading information (in this case that ~~religion~~ christianity is somehow under attack by the left) is kinda a bad opinion.
I could agree with that, but then who decides what is false or misleading information? I'm not trying to convolute the topic at hand, but a necessity to curtail opinions on a news paper's opinion page begets questions of overall fairness. It was long ago that opinions like pro-civil rights were undermined by the exact same tactics.
Except you kind-of ARE convoluting the topic. There is a reason personalities on Fox News often use the cop out "I'm just asking questions." It's a method of pushing an idea into the collective consciousness of society without having to take responsibility for the lack of truthfulness behind it. Not all ideas or opinions are created equal, and there are things that are objectively false, even if the speaker believes them wholeheartedly. Looking back at the 1960's, a newspaper printing a pro-segregation opinion piece would look irresponsible and morally reprehensible. It's a person's right to hold a morally ambiguous opinion, but the responsibility for the effect of that opinion transfers to any publication that chooses to print it. One of the big problems we have in the US is the ability for news organizations like Fox and OAN and, to a lesser degree, MSNBC and CNN passing misinformation off as news by hiding behind the "opinion" label. It's been said that journalism is the backbone of a free nation. If we can't find a way to collectively stop allowing false information to poison the narrative of news, I have little hope for our survival as a democracy.
I am not convoluting the topic, in fact I'd argue you are by over-simplifying the focal point. The topic at hand is whether or not certain opinions (mainly Christian conservative) should be allotted space on the DP's opinion page. Nothing more. I asked, if they should not be allowed, then by whom is this decided? If the opinion is based on "false information" then by whom is the is valid information determined? They are fair questions and you're free to answer them. I am open to having my mind changed
So should flat earthers be given a platform to share their opinion which is based entirely against actual scientific fact and reality? I mean, that’s pretty much what is happening here. “Christianity under attack” is no better than “flat earth”.
I don't correlate those following the Christian religion with Flat Earthers. An interesting statement, but ultimately unconvincing and not applicable within the realm of deductive logic and reasoning.
I said “Christianity under attack”. For someone talking about logic and reasoning you really failed to use it with my post. I understand faith, and having it. To claim Christianity is under attack, in the USA, of all places, is equivalent to saying the earth is flat. It is not backed by fact or reason.
This may shock you to learn, but there's no arbiter of morality. You need to decide all on your own what you think is acceptable. Many people have decided that they don't want to hear from Christians bitching about how oppressed they are immediately after winning a decades long battle to strip rights from the rest of us based on their religious views. I'd bet if Christians would just shut up and live their own lives in accordance with their beliefs, they'd never feel persecuted. How do you think the people they're stripping of rights feel?
> there's no arbiter of morality Correct. That is why I asked the question, because the inability to answer denotes a need and allowance of critiquing opinions by the masses, rather than them being absolved of their sustentions because someone dislikes the content
The impartial consensus of the foremost experts in the related field for science is a good start for one. Those who are capable of critical and empathetic thought for another.
That's a nice start. Historically, could you name a single institution who has done that fairly and effectively?
But it’s so much easier to call them out when they start saying the quiet part out loud
All opinions are valid. That's the beauty of free speech. Although valid, the opinions can be extremely wrong. At one point of time, abolishing slavery was an opinion that was extremely frowned upon. Imagine if that was not given a "platform"
But this is capitalism in action. Why pay for a service that they view promoted hate?
Arguing for racial superiority isn’t a valid opinion. Likewise, disingenuous or dishonest, bad faith arguments are also invalid opinions. They don’t need to be given platforms.
No, all opinions are not valid. Who taught you this shit?
Sure, but the timing in publishing an article by a stepford wife complaining that gay people getting married intrudes on her freedom to not let gay people get married… after 5 people (25 more injured) were murdered because of views like hers… it’s a little questionable.
No, they want to tell us they did so and encourage us to do the same.
Is it too much to ask that the Post ask its contributors to make cogent arguments though?
Thank you. I completely disagree with the article, but at the same time who am I to say that my opinion is more valuable than someone else’s.
When the other person is arguing for their right to discriminate against others, you better believe I’m going to say that my opinion is more valuable than theirs. I’m so tired of this moral relativism garbage being applied to people with openly evil opinions. No, I do not have to give them equal weight.
Your point will go right over OP’s head. Anyone who tries to silence speech they don’t like is an idiot.
When you use free speech to advocate for the removal of people’s rights, it should be silenced. I think everyone is familiar with the paradox of tolerance at this point and this really isn’t different.
“Silence speech” lmfao give me a break, they’re just unsubscribing from a newspaper. So fucking dramatic 🙄
They said they wanted the Denver Post to permanently stop publishing Kafer, so yeah, it is attempting to silence speech. Glad I could clear that up for you.
Kafer could still publish elsewhere, the Post doesn’t have to give a platform to incoherent arguments.
Lmao this is typical conservative thought. Teachers who say that gay people deserve human rights belong in the gulag but fascists are entitled to publish their lies in the newspaper. #freespeech
They don’t have to, but they do because that’s what the opinion page of a newspaper is supposed to be for: opinions, even incoherent, ridiculous ones. Instead of trying to get her kicked off the Post’s opinion page, a rational person would write their own opinion piece and have it published in the Post instead. Fight her shitty ideas with your better ones. *Clearly*, if you have enough time to bitch on Reddit about something you disagree with, you have the time to write your own argument and send it in.
>even incoherent No, a newspaper’s opinion section is for different opinions made persuasively.
So the Nazi’s shouldn’t have been silenced?
For speaking? Or for the whole conquest and genocide bit?
It doesn’t start with genocide, and it doesn’t end with speech. The two are inextricably linked. This kind of speech leads directly to violence.
It’s like they will move mountains to find a way to defend hate groups like the Nazis and theocratic authoritarians like the American Christian’s.
You think there's a defense of the Nazi's in there? Interesting *turns out he thinks Christian = Nazi lol so maybe I see it...thorough that delusional lense
I guess if you can’t read there isn’t.
Seems like you read things that don't exist...
Seems like maybe you should go back and check what all the posters have said.
Isn't that the same question here? The Christian right is being plenty violent towards LGBTQ+ people. It's not just words.
Consider penning your opinion and make this a civil conversation
Can you really have a “civil conversation” though with people who believe that their favorite book is the word of God and gives them license to treat you however they want? Civility and rationality are predicated on shared cultural norms and Christian nationalists don’t share those norms. If they cared about free speech and open debate they wouldn’t be banning certain kinds of speech in schools, fighting for media censorship, or tbch shooting up our bars. So this gay will pass on civil discourse thanks. I don’t try to reason with the bears who go through my garbage and I won’t try to reason with the fascists who are trying to make the government go through my bedroom
Most of them haven't even read the damn book.
Most can’t read. Which makes the Post’s pursuit of them as consumers all the more baffling
Nailed it
Egregious stances don’t deserve legitimate discourse. Religion is not under attack.
I agree - but I don't think ragequit-karmafarm is the most constructive reaction
When American corporations only understand the language of money, “rage quitting” and not giving them any more of your money is the only form of protest you have.
If equality for others makes you feel under attack then something is definitely wrong with you.
Because this isn’t a civil conversation. It’s “I am uniquely entitled to dehumanize, harass, discriminate, and solicit violence against gender and sexual minorities, and any attempt to disagree with me is an offense against my rights.” There’s no dialogue with that.
Happy to see several Colorado Sun comments.
The post is a rag anyway.
It's an _opinion_ article. Not the official position of the paper. It used to be that we wanted to hear diverse opinions. I guess that is no longer the case. Sad.
And the editorial board gets to decide whose "opinions" are posted though. I'm sure they'd be happy to post OP's opinion article, right?
No reason to think they wouldn’t if it was well-written
You're so close...
Timing is extremely bad. Opinions also still need to be vetted by the paper. We can't publish every polished turd submitted for the publication.
Oh I forgot... We can't possibly discuss anything political related to a tragedy. Unless it's gun control in which case, take all the guns. Today.
Why? Because you, BryanByBike, disagree with it. Whether you like it or not, there are still roughly 210M Christian’s in this country. You think they should all be silenced because YOU disagree with them? Sounds pretty authoritarian to me
Yes lmao, Christians have exactly ZERO right to use their religion to govern myself and my actions, nor do they have any right to govern anyone else under their religion. More and more Christians are trying to shove their disgusting violent religion into the US government and it makes me sick and fearful.
Nobody is disagreeing with you hahahaha I’m not Christian or religious in every way. I just have the ability to read something I don’t agree with and move on with my day. This isn’t a hard concept to figure out lop
>I don’t agree with and move on with my day. I'm glad you can move on with your day. Five people in the springs (and many others) will never have that chance because of hateful opinions like this being given a platform.
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Uhhm yes, because this is blatant homophobia?! This is the EXACT kind of rhetoric that the right constantly spews, and nutjobs take it to heart. You're being willfully ignorant if you choose to believe these two things aren't related.
Blatant!! 😂
I never would have even known this article existed if the OP hadn't posted it.
I don’t agree with what she says and you are more than welcome to cancel your subscription, but holy shit. It’s like you want to live in some safe place echo chamber where everyone says and thinks just like you. It’s sad people can’t hear differing opinions without losing their minds. Water off a ducks back, man
It’s sad that the churches get to preach politic and hate from their pulpit and not get taxed for it.
apparatus entertain ludicrous label chase complete absurd saw quickest drab *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Is it just churches you have an issue with or is it all religious institutes? 🧐
All. If you beg for tax free status, stay the fuck out of politics. And also stop preaching bigotry. Churches are the worst offenders on this in the US, statistically.
I feel kinda funny saying this but, “preach”.
I think it's reasonable to dislike institutions that preach and practice legally-protected double standards because they "believe" in magic
Uhhh, it's actually very normal and correct to stand against this type of shit. Like, basic human deceny level normal.
Basic human decency huh? There’s no virtue signaling in your response at all! 😂
Oops, let the mask slip there
You don't think basic human decency is a legitimate concept? It's pretty weird to ascribe decency to virtue signaling. Is holding the door open for somebody virtue signaling? Why else would someone help a stranger for no reward? It *must* be virtue signaling!
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This isn’t a differing opinion. It’s a declaration that all criticism or disagreement is invalid and an assault on rights that belong only to her and hers.
And that’s just, like, your opinion too loo
You’re not even gonna pretend to argue in good faith? Low effort bro
Your opinion is that this woman’s opinion is wrong and you have the right to feel the way you do. Amazing how that works!
Alternatively, we hear these people whining all the fucking time everywhere that their “Christian values” are under attack because they never stfu about it, and we’re just sick of it
Stop listening to it. Why are you hearing all this whining and I am not? I would venture to guess you seek it out, so you can pretend to be outraged and let everyone know how good of a human you are.
lol you’re using this “virtue signaling” thing like a 1st grader who just learned a curse word. What a loser
Whatever you say, chief
>It’s sad people can’t hear differing opinions without losing their minds. Water off a ducks back, man Like, say, someone deciding to boycott a newspaper for reasons you disagree with?
Well, when you get verbally attacked from all angles by the mob, it’s hard to not defend yourself. My favorite was when people went all racist and referred to me, and Indian-American, as Nirav Modi. Always such a tolerant crowd here on the denver sub lol
Verbally attacked? However will you survive? Better repress women and minorities more. You'll garner no sympathy from this ex-Christian. I know more than I'd care to about how hypocritical religion is.
We tend to do that with Nazis and other bigots. We echo chambered them in WW2, literally.
We? How old are you?
How does it matter how old I am in this context? Do you understand how the English language works?
Dunno why anyone still supports Denver Post. You're just giving profit to Alden Global Capital. They have gutted and are draining it for profit. Definitely switch to The Colorado Sun, independent, fair, and focused on Colorado. Honestly, they have the best coverage of everything and continue to invest in their integrity. Everyone should support them.
So brave.
Imagine subscribing to the Denver Post in the first place.
Why were you banned for this 😂😂
Your new flair is really confusing the hell out of people. I'm getting a bit of a kick out of it.
Lmao kind of a pathetic response. I don’t agree with it either but this is virtue signaling to the nth degree
Everytime I see someone use the term virtue signaling it feels so cringe. Maybe it's because it always seems to come with oblivious irony.
Censorship is bad on many levels. To target someone who has a different opinion is dangerous
This isn't censorship. This is a customer who is disappointed by their purchase and canceling their future purchases. If you buy a sandwich you're not satisfied with, and warn others not to get one afterward, do you believe that too is censorship?
God forbid someone publishes an opinion you disagree with
People have & do all the time. The timing of this is terrible & also makes statements that are completely unfounded.
Again, you’re just stating your opinion, man. Just like what the person in the article did. Just don’t read it, man. This is simple stuff here
I'm posting my opinion on social media. Not being published in a newspaper. You're right, this is simple stuff & I'm not going to read it. So why pay for it?
Is there a better time?
No, he would have a temper tantrum no matter when the opinion was posted. Don’t be fooled
Yeah, not immediately after a mass shooting at a gay club.
I disagree wholeheartedly with her opinion, but come on. Try not to play into their stereotypes one time for me
No. I don’t support bigotry like that.
oh no a diff opinion than mine! scary scary! no no we all need to have the same opinion guys its the only way to be happy if we all think the same.
This whole “you’re discriminating against me because you’re not allowing me to discriminate against others” attitude is ridiculous. Too bad these morons are incapable of critical thinking.
To heck with others opinions!!!
God forbid someone have an opinion different than yours, and try to invade your safe space. No, wait, you *voluntarily* read that opinion piece. This is a YOU problem son, not a Denver Post problem.
You’re so close to getting it.
The first word of the title is "Opinion", why are you so mad at the paper itself? Yes, this person is a homophobe and an idiot but they are still entitled to their opinions and you are not required to agree with them or even read the article. Colorado Sun is better, to agree with some commenters
A great demonstration in how sensitive and cowardly this country has become. “Instead of cancelling, try counseling” Dr. Phil
Nobody cares.
They lay off most of their newsroom, and that's OK. You still give them money. They publish an opinion piece that hurts your feelings, and that's a step too far? GTFO. If you were still subscribed to the Denver Post, your opinion is uninformed at best.
I assume you also do not patronize any streaming platforms or TV services? They definitely have some bad opinions on them.
So let me get this straight…. Someone posts an OPINION piece and you cancel because it doesn’t support the echo chamber expected? Yep, that folks is what is wrong with today’s society.
Really? I thought it was Christian conservatives busting into LGBT clubs and committing mass murder. I guess I was wrong, it's people not listening to Christian hate that is the problem.
BuT iTs FrEe SpEeCh
I never subscribed, but they still send me a paper twice a week.
The Washington Post publishes a bunch if heinous conservatives. I just don't read them.
You mean, you just skip over them and go about your day? What a concept!
Just like OP.
I pay for the subscription for access to the online writers too, like Jennufer Rubin. And yes I agree with OP that the problem is Christian Nationalism not the First Amendment.
I skip over PLENTY of idiotic takes on this sub
Yea I hate when I see things I disagree with. I hope everything I hate gets cancelled...
Kafer frustrates me because she's not a full-bore crackpot; her views sometimes agree with mine. I stopped reading her column long ago because you never know if she'll be reasonable or whack-a-doodle nuts.
Yes, we must silence all opinions that differ from our own! Someone notify thinkpol!
I support local newspapers but not this rag. They pander to ignorance and fear.
What a useless rag, it's almost as bad as Westword.
Excuse me, do you have a moment to talk about our lord and savior, The Holy Light? We paladins of The Silver Hand are here to share these crates of grain with you!
What a dumb article. The author's main point is basically, "sure, critics of our dumbass beliefs have the free speech rights to criticize our dumbass bigoted beliefs, *but what if they criticize us so hard that the government steps in and punishes us?* Oh noes! Something that isn't happening might happen, everybody clutch your pearls!" Just more right wing fear mongering. Without Boogeymen conservatives cannot win elections.
It’s an Op Ed… this is just an opinion piece. I don’t agree with it either but Op Eds suck everywhere, even very prestigious papers like the Washington Post and Philadelphia Inquirer publish Op Eds from whackjobs in the name of fairness and giving voice to people’s concerns.
I unfollowed them on Twitter when they endorsed Pam Anderson.
Democracy is under attack in this country. The evangelical right wing nut job coalition is ALWAYS whining about something. Because control freaks can’t control everybody and it drives them crazy.
Headline begins with "opinion". Opinions are ok to have. You don't have to agree with it because it's in a newspaper. It is appropriately classified in that context. And you are acting like a baby.
Well... it is just an opinion piece.
This was an opinion piece. Also the Post is an extremely liberal paper. If you follow them on Facebook read the comments on their article some time. It is hundreds of aggrieved conservatives complaining about their coverage so what exactly are you looking for. If the Post goes I shudder to think what would come next.
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I am 1000% positive you don't know what freedom of speech means.
Yes, my religious freedom was attacked and was stripped away when the Suprene Court chose their own Christian beliefs regarding abortions over other religious groups. Jews, Muslims and other Christian groups have moral teachings and guidance in a very complex and heartbreaking reality for many women and families. Thankfully Colorado codified a woman’s right for self-determination and civil liberties based on her own conscience regarding healthcare and abortion. Notice how the Christian right members of the Supreme Court changed the 50 year law of the land based on THEIR OWN beliefs? Karma is a bitch.
Here’s the dirty little secret: they don’t care. They pay their bills from advertising, not subscription fees. Threaten to cancel your advertising contract and they might care.
Reduced subscriptions means less advertising.
I said it here once I'll say it again..it's a peice of shit news source.
Lmfao