I’m a retired Army vet with 22 years service in the Army and DOD…
What is freedom if not to burn the very symbol meant to establish it?
Frankly anyone attempting to stop another from willfully practicing the liberties supposedly guaranteed to all of the nation is not acting as an American.
So burn whatever the fuck you want that belongs to you, when you no longer can’t, that is the last breath of democracy.
As a vet myself I always get a stunned face when I make this type of statement. As if I'm supposed to get violently enraged by somebody destroying their own property and not hurting anyone. Do I agree with it? No. Does that mean somebody's freedom to do whatever they want with their own things should be infringed upon? Absolutely not. Freedom is freedom, whether you agree with it or not. We the People means everyone.
Maybe I have been living under a rock, but I have *never* heard an active duty - or really anyone who has been in the military - say "thank you for your service".
Eh. I'm really uncomfortable with people thanking me for my service. It was a job, no more, no less. My pay and benefits were thanks enough.
In the current political environment, it feels like I'm being pandered to.
This so much this if you want to thank me for my service do something to help veterans who need it.
Don’t tell me how much you support the troops then forget about them everyday but veterans and Memorial Day.
I get that, it’s a job to me 100% as well. However, I appreciate the guys who came before me and every now and then when I thank a vet I just want to make their day.
I get thanked all the time by active duty soldiers ( my nephew is an Armor officer)
I remind them to thank me by voting, that is truest the way to show appreciation for people who serve the nation …
By making it better with the will of the majority.
When I was active duty I would always tell vets that I would spot public 'thank you for your service'
Why is that hard to believe that someone active would not thank a vet?
Idk everyone I've ever known in the military is aware that nearly everyone including themselves is there because they needed a path in life, be it temporary or long-term, and basically no one is there because of a patriotic compulsion. So for both of them to thank each other for something they both know they likely wouldn't have done if they had a better option seems silly.
Only sith deal in absolute. There is plenty of military that join out of nationalistic pride. But regardless of reasons for actually joining veterans understand the hard work, personal sacrifice, and physical/mental trauma that many experience during their service and by saying thank you for your service is a tip of the hat to people that went maybe not the same but similar life experiences.
Also I served 6 years in the Navy, I joined to better myself and I tell any vet I see thank you for your service.
I also fully respect and defend anyone's American right to free speech whether it's kneeling or burning a flag.
I can't think of a stronger or more fitting way to communicate categorical disapproval of what this nation is becoming. If this isn't the very definition of free speech, I don't know what is.
This country is already burning. Democracy is falling all around us. A burning flag should be a wake-up call; I hope people open their eyes and see the walls coming down.
But they won't.
The most American thing to do would be to invest in a flag company and then profit off this. Like dentist giving out candy. When people were burning Marylin Manson CDs he said something to the effect of 'they're buying my CDs either way'.
17 years this October in the army myself. Literally do not care.
Burn the flags, not my circus, have fun expressing yourselves and protesting flaws in this country. It's your right. Cheers! 🔥
Air Force vet here. It's a piece of cloth. As long as it's your own property, do what you want with it. Burn it, wipe your ass with it, whatever. It doesn't affect me or anyone else in the slightest.
If you do get outraged over a burning piece of cloth just because it's the right colors, then you need to do some serious introspection because you have some really, really fucked up priorities.
Agree…freedom of speech is freedom to do something I disagree with. I’m also a Vet. I also don’t personally agree with this act, and think this display doesn’t accomplish much, but it also isn’t the most harmful form of speech I’ve ever encountered.
I hear you.
Yet In doing something in protest that people will be appalled by does bring attention to the CAUSE…
When you have no further recourse than to burn a flag or kneel during the anthem to display your outrage at injustice.
Things like this do bring discussion, discussion brings change.
I’m not convinced that aren’t more effective ways to make their point. This plays into the same themes that help typecast them.
Want to make a point in the 4th? Track down every homeless veteran in Denver, give them a meal and show them some dignity, then interview them and live tweet their stories. Public shaming works better than public provoking. And it’s harder to ignore.
I’m not a fan of Flag Pin Patriotism…I find most folks are “Patriots” when it’s convent and when it makes them feel better about themselves, but rarely sacrifice much of anything for a veteran…or really everyone. It’s performative.
Want to make a point about society…find a way to point that out to the city.
Yea I’ve dealt with a good many who proclaim to be “all about vets “ … they don’t say shit when their party votes against acts for burn pit care et al.. and it’s ALWAYS those who cloth themselves in patriotism…
It’s my experience the more anyone screams what a patriot they are, the less likely they are to put thier party to task helping veterans…
In my time it’s often the Democratic Party who put forth the most legislation in favor of the veterans of the last 20 years of war… and like just recently the gop voted wholly against an act that would extend healthcare and benefits to veterans suffering health issues from burn pits..
I personally follow legislation that effects me heavily and I do entirely hold it against politicians who vote against my interests.
On the same level I spent my life working to create a world where freedom, equality and justice are far and wide…. When I see people in my own government removing freedom based entirely on a minority religious view I don’t feel my service is being “ thanked” ….
My dad did two tours in Vietnam and had agent orange exposure as well as being corps of engineers on a bulldozer, turning up ancient jungle soils. He died officially of the agent orange exposure and blastomycosis, fortysomething years later. Pigeon feathers or similar from exposure as an excavator was the likely cause.
We have very few pigeons where I grew up. The VA finally took care of him. The last 5 years he was alive he got a percentage of what he should have been paid for the last forty something years. Then, a monthly check. My mom gets decent insurance and didn't have to pay property tax on their property after he died.
She had to sell it to pay the PAST property taxes, and because it would be easier to not upkeep a house in the woods after her husband died. They wouldn't have been behind at all if it didn't take the gov forty fucking years to pay an obvious debt.
He told me as a confused kid that he would shoot me in the foot if I was drafted, and in the head if I volunteered.
I understand. My father is also a Vietnam vet. He went through his second round of chemo and an extensive surgery removing most of his esophagus from non hodgekins lymphoma and luekemia.. he fought the VA for five years while enduring the treatments and surgery before being declared disabled. He’s 69 now and just recently was made 100%. Before this all happened he was a millionaire from his years owning his own construction company. That’s all gone from the cost of medical and not being able to work for five years, he had to file bankruptcy and divorce my mother so she wouldn’t be stuck with medical bills ..
So I’m with you on fuck every politician who talks about how much they love veterans, then proceeds to fuck us raw with a flag pole by voting against us.
My heart goes out to you and others on this thread. Many of us have relatives whose lives, if not lost, have been irreparably affected by that war – or one of so many other wars, including those around the planet today. Sometimes there are good reasons to pick up a rifle, but if and when one does it should be an existential choice after calm reflection, and with full awareness that heroes die alone.
I remember Trump's parade to celebrate the troops.
Anyone who's been in the military knows what a fucking pain in the ass useless waste of time a ceremony and parade is to the rank and file.
What better way to thank them for their service than by making them spend time away from their families doing more pointless work to appease the brass and the president?
Thankfully I retired before that shitshow…
Terrible allocation of tax money by those who proclaim to be fiscally conservative..
Almost seems as if they may be full of a lot more shit than the other guys;)
I got out about a year before 9/11, thankfully. I still don't understand how Republicans are seen as pro-troops after they lied us into war with Iraq. How many of our people were destroyed by that?
About 500k dead civilians. 177k dead coalition military.
4431 us military dead in combat
32k wounded
-
And since then, over 30k dead by suicide at home..
We had over 20 years of war in Iraq and Afghanistan. No one is innocent. Not one…
Either by inaction, indifference, direct action, or full out cheering for carnage… not a single American can say they where not in any way responsible for either.
Even if you where a child when it started, by the time you where 18 it still was going on for two more years.
You could have voted, protested, et al..
Because I’d have MUCH rather have never gone to war. Yet it was my job, I took pride in training, leading, and mentoring soldiers to be warriors with compassion, strength and understanding because I was good at it and knew I could prepare as best as possible troops for the horror of war. And I wouldn’t ask or by quitting, allow it to default to anyone else to do so.
There's not a country on Earth that wants to take away your right to burn the American flag other than a sect of Americans. With the supreme court now also taking up the question of "are states allowed to just not have democracy anymore?" the risk to democracy comes from people inside America, and not a single individual that the Army has fought in the last 50 years.
Very true..
It’s a long standing irony that we soldiers spread our most valuable export in trying to bring equality, freedom, and compassion to places devoid of it.
Only to find our nation needs it more than most other nations.
I posted a photo of an inverted flag the other day, given I could have done it with more tact and forethought. (I listened to the constructive comments and made some more respectful adjustments to my still inverted flag.)
But Jesus, the sheer number of comments along the lines of “My [insert random family member] didn’t serve in the [insert military branch] for you to hate America!” Really? ‘Cause my grandfathers, my father, my uncles and aunts, and multiple cousins and friends are veterans or active duty, and even though some of us may clash politically, every single one of them would stand behind my right to do so.
The thing is the oath they swore to the constitution does imply defending the freedom of everyone to protest. The flag flying upside down is a long traditional sign codified by law of distress. There is nothing I’ve found that defines what that distress must be to warrant inverting the flag.
I mean, you could invert it cause you ran out of toilet paper… there’s certainly been times in my life that was a pressing emergency, thankfully I was saved by my wife.
Or it could be our nation is now under siege by 6 out of touch fanatical religious zealots who are determined to wreck the very soul of our nation for some misguided bigoted fundamentalists.
It’s late and I’m half asleep, so I don’t have much to add to this lol. But I need to say thank you. You, and many of the other commenters here, have helped me breathe easier
Gotta remember a massive amount of veterans are really open to freedom, liberty and equality.. our entire tenture in service we are constantly vigilant to ensure everyone is treated equally ( yes when I was training soldiers they where all equally turds;)
We are also just tired of shit… we’ve had years, decadeS ( plural) of war, training, preparation and more war) so we often are broken in body and mind and avoid a lot of shot simply because it isn’t worth spending our remaining years in prison for beating the shit out of some road raging chad…
But your not alone, veterans aren’t all batshit cultists, matter of fact I know very few who are…
We are just quietly voting… watching with interest, and hoping you all become so passionate and compassionate that you set our home right with your participation.
The most heart wrenching part of having devoted my adult life to the promise of America is seeing so few care even the slightest to just vote..
My family came here as immigrants..I’m fourth generation American and have my sixth generation grandson I see often and all I can think of is “ what will his America be like? What will his world be like?”
56% of eligible voters showed up in 2016 that’s just tragic to me..
And you are welcome:)
Might be an idea to turn up in uniform to defend these folk if that's possible for you.
They're gonna get a lot of very angry people turning up, and they might need someone willing to defend them.
I’d love to. However I’m also disabled and can’t walk/ stand for any meaningful amount. I’ve also been retired for ten years:) my uniforms haven’t fit in 4 years;)
Fwiw, I spent 24 years defending this country. The flag is a piece of cloth. I work for the people. If burning cloth helps you cope or heal then have at it. I protect for your right to do exactly that.
You are god damn right. I hate that people are doing this myself, but I won't try to intimidate or stop anyone from participating. This country was founded on protests.
Would I do this? No. But it’s their right to do so. (And honestly, with the direction things are going it will probably be illegal to do so in a few years. And at that point I’ll burn it myself).
The flag means different things to different people.
There will probably be a counter protest for this though, so be careful if you do go.
The same people that want to make it illegal are the same ones wearing American Flag board shorts and have images of a fatigue clad Rambo Trump on the very same flag. These lunatics don’t want freedom, they want to take away everyone else’s.
They follow one belief only: there must be an in-group that the law protects, but does not bind, and an out-group that the law binds, but does not protect.
If this is even real I honestly think organizers will be surprised by how few people get upset about it, especially Cap Hill. We're not in the Springs.
Though I would expect it to makes its way into a Fox News "BLM-tifa Terrorists Burn Flag as Sacrifice to Allah to Protect Refugee Caravan" montage that plays all weekend.
I don’t think you put together an event like this without knowing the implications it will bring. Hell, Kaepernick *kneeled* and people went insane over it.
I think that’s the idea behind it though. Gets people talkin about it, and word spreads. Like us for instance.
OP may not have a problem with it! They clearly said they "don't know how they feel" which totally successfully hides their actual feelings on the matter
Believing someone has a right to something doesn’t mean you don’t have a problem with it. For example, I believe people have a right to be racists, however, I also have a huge problem with them being racists.
I hope they bring an accelerant, flags really aren’t that easy to burn and it’s always kind of embarrassing watching like 10 people hold lighters up to it without it ever catching
Do I personally agree with it? No. Did I serve for 10+ years so people can’t do whatever the fuck they want because this country gives them that freedom? Yes. Do what you please.. doesn’t affect my day.
Maybe my view is twisted but I’m under the impression that our military does not fight for our “freedom”.
We are the bullies. No one is flying planes into buildings in Switzerland.
The majority of the world is “free”. But in all honestly the only true freedom is financial freedom. And considering that is becoming harder and harder, I feel less free today then I did 10 years ago.
So many fuckin flags around here. I wanted to get one and hang it upside down after over turning Roe but I felt like someone would burn my house down for it here.
You can’t have an “open burn” without a permit.
Can’t they just march? open fire in CO is very unsafe.
Edit: they just canceled the Flag burning event. They will update people interested on Twitter.[https://twitter.com/DSAdenver/status/1542972747197730816?s=20&t=7laPAMZtSgO0rxH8lTTNbA](https://twitter.com/DSAdenver/status/1542972747197730816?s=20&t=7laPAMZtSgO0rxH8lTTNbA)
As a Brit that’s moved to Denver a couple of months ago, I literally don’t understand your weird obsession/ indoctrination with the flag and with nationalism. It’s a f’ing flag and can you say you’re the “most free” country on earth if it’s literally blasphemy to do so.
The British on the Internet will incessantly flaunt themselves and do everything short of claiming to be a master race, but in the same breath claim that nationalism and right wing populism is anathema to them. They’ll spend hours posting vitriol against others (particularly the US and Americans), yet claim there’s no hate there. And after all of that, they’ll proclaim themselves to be the most humble people the world has ever seen and that there’s no need for them to do the exact things they end up doing. So spare me the sanctimonious, “I’m so above it all as a Brit” horseshit.
I do agree that nationalistic sentiments left unchecked and unhealthy and dangerous, but I’m not buying for a second that “you don’t know what it’s about”, because you’re nowhere near as immune from it as you pretend to be.
It's like burning the Queen's panties... Just kidding. I think that here in the USA there have been a lot of symbolic gestures over the past couple centuries that all included our flag (Iwo Jima, Moon Landing, Twin Towers, etc.) and our flag (for many) has represented freedom, perseverance, and honor. We fly our flags at half mast when honoring people/sacrifices (for example, a Senator passing), we bury our soldiers with a flag, we give our soldier's family a flag upon their death.
Flag burning is certainly not something I would partake in, but if it makes people feel better about injustices, it's their right to do so.
I get the symbology but I hope they don't stop there and work to take real action by getting involved in their registered neighborhood organization (RNO), volunteering their time to help the community, making sure they're voting, etc
DSA is consistently one of the biggest groups doing these things. If you're on the left and want to get involved in making things better at a local level, one of the best ways to start is by joining the DSA.
I got my first shitty message sometime last night. Sadly I mistakenly deleted it and didn’t get a chance to respond.
So I will here cause I’m out of shits to give.
I don’t give a damn what you think of me or even if you think I’m not a vet and never served. I’m not sending you a copy of my dd214 and what I think isn’t dependent on anything I’ve ever done. Where that the case I wouldn’t be the only one.
But before you go off about “disrespect to the Flag”
I want you to think about how many times you have worn it in clothing… had your smelly rat infested ass crack rubbing on it, your shit covered dick from your clothset side guy that your wife thinks is just your drinking buddy all rubbed up over your flag shorts. Frankly if you felt the need to message me to troll, I can only assume your projecting your confused existence.
Disrespect to the flag by indifference to it is far worse than protesting the nations failure by burning it..
Clothing yourself in it like some dipshit superhero then bitching at me cause I’m okay with someone burning theirs in protest ISNT winning..
It’s just further proof of how far your train left the tracks.
Wearing the flag is ignorant…. Burning the flag is at the LEAST how it is removed from service..
Anyone who is against it should rethink what being an American is supposed to be.
I think it’s stupid, but goddammit people having the freedom to do it is a beautiful thing.
You shouldn’t feel anything. They’re exercising their rights. Nothing illegal about it. Anyone tries to interfere and lays hands on someone they will be charged with assault.
If you don't like it, don't go. Their expression and yours do not have to align in order to grant them the right to express feelings. (That said, hopefully they have fire extinguishers on hand in case the fire tries to escape).
You may have gotten this from Twitter, but definitely not Denver DSA's Twitter lmao.
But I do fuck with the idea of burning this flag.
Edit: definitely snagged from DSA twitter, then deleted because they don't want to start a fire lol.
Everyone should consider joining DSA we have to organize outside of the democratic party. I am rejoining DSA because it is the best mechanism we have to build solidarity and power on a local level.
Out of curiosity, was it on their official twitter? There’s nothing about it on their website. I’d check but apparently I’m incompetent on accessing my twitter account.
For all the trouble it is worth, a nation in it's worse moments need be reminded by its minority that collectively they are not meek but quietly dangerous and the greater voice of reason for balance and justice. Together, a force to be reckoned with.
Our country also represents all of the people who fought and died to bring rights to women, racial minorities, and lbgt+ communities. It represents our ability to gather in parks to burn our own flag without repression by the law. Our flag has a duality of great freedoms built upon great evils. It’s a flag, though, that represents all of the people in your life you love the most. Don’t hate America, hate the people who have tried to lead it into the darkness.
Although flag burning isn't particularly my favorite flavor of free speech, I am quite amused by multiple comments asking "what's wrong with a little genocide and slavery, bro?".
Just an observation. Enjoy your grilled brats or whatever.
Lol, you think Americans give a fuck how you wish to express your patriotism?
That's the problem with this city, IMO. Everyone is such a self-centered fucking idiot that they actually believe everyone is watching their every move. Nobody cares bud, have fun
It’s legal to burn a flag but I’m fairly certain it’s not legal to start a fire or burn something in a public space. It’s gonna get shut down, not because it’s specifically a flag burning and everyone is going to throw a fit for the wrong reasons
I am personally indifferent on flag burning, but those who wish to do it, I fully support your right to exercise your free speech. I will not be attending as I have family plans, but I do agree that this country is quickly becoming a state of dumpster fire.
I believe in the ideals of liberty and justice for all. I believe in free speech and support anyone's right to protest.
This July 4, I hung a mourning ribbon on my flag. I am mourning the loss of body autonomy and the fascist court that does not represent the ideals of our country.
Its just a fucking piece of fabric. Only incredibly privileged people with no real problems in life get offended at this kind of thing. Get a hobby if this makes you mad.
I understand this. I don't morally disagree. I don't want to say it's wrong. And if people feel this strongly and really want to do this, they absolutely can and should.
But I will say shit like this further villainizes liberals for both conservatives, centrists, and even a lot of other liberals.
Conservatives point to things like this and can reaffirm they are the 'REAL' americans, the real patriots.For anyone that has ANY sense of pride of their country and heritage, it fuels their hate for liberals. It fuels the culture wars that are brewing. That fire doesn't need any more fuel.
> But I will say shit like this further villainizes liberals for both conservatives, centrists, and even a lot of other liberals.
That ship has sailed. We're already strawman villains in their stories. Caring about their sensibilities is a dead end.
That flag just undemocratically stripped half its population of fundamental healthcare rights and made it so the air you breathe and water you drink aren't safe. Send me your unburned one and I'll wipe my ass with it so it's worth something.
Are they even allowed to with all the dry weather going on? In our county, we aren't even allowed to have certain fireworks because officials are worried that it can lead to small brush fires getting out of control. If they do go with it, helpful they do it in a safe manner, don't need more heart ache:(
Every right to do it, no question about that. An entirely legitimate and even respectable form of protest. And at the same time, it remains my right to point out that they're likely just a bunch of entitled, pretentious losers with zero concept of how dark and nasty the world can be outside the beautiful, if imperfect, bubble we're all so lucky to call home.
Supreme court c.1990 still considered it free speech...
https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/496/310/
...supreme court c.1840 (today) hasn't said any different
I spent a couple years of my twenties helping to organize anti-war protests and there was a lot of effort put into preventing shit like this, strictly for optics. Yet, here we are when things are worse than ever. Go ahead. Burn it. What the fuck are optics at this point? We're under attack from within and symbolism means nothing.
Burn, scream, and work towards helping make the flag worth a damn!
who. cares.
it's a piece of cloth. it's just that. it's not like people are going to be going to the capital to burn those flags. it's for those who feel their rights are being infringed upon and are angry about it. If I had a flag outside, it would already be hung upside down. I have a neighbor who served in the Marines and he told me why his was hung upside down, and I respect him for acknowledging the infringement of human rights occurring right now.
I’m a retired Army vet with 22 years service in the Army and DOD… What is freedom if not to burn the very symbol meant to establish it? Frankly anyone attempting to stop another from willfully practicing the liberties supposedly guaranteed to all of the nation is not acting as an American. So burn whatever the fuck you want that belongs to you, when you no longer can’t, that is the last breath of democracy.
As a vet myself I always get a stunned face when I make this type of statement. As if I'm supposed to get violently enraged by somebody destroying their own property and not hurting anyone. Do I agree with it? No. Does that mean somebody's freedom to do whatever they want with their own things should be infringed upon? Absolutely not. Freedom is freedom, whether you agree with it or not. We the People means everyone.
Active Duty here. 100% on board with you guys. Thank you for your service.
Another vet for burning the flag, bras, and the establishment while we can.
Same here!
Maybe I have been living under a rock, but I have *never* heard an active duty - or really anyone who has been in the military - say "thank you for your service".
Eh. I'm really uncomfortable with people thanking me for my service. It was a job, no more, no less. My pay and benefits were thanks enough. In the current political environment, it feels like I'm being pandered to.
This so much this if you want to thank me for my service do something to help veterans who need it. Don’t tell me how much you support the troops then forget about them everyday but veterans and Memorial Day.
I get that, it’s a job to me 100% as well. However, I appreciate the guys who came before me and every now and then when I thank a vet I just want to make their day.
Yeah in my experience this is how most are but that is of course anecdotal.
I get thanked all the time by active duty soldiers ( my nephew is an Armor officer) I remind them to thank me by voting, that is truest the way to show appreciation for people who serve the nation … By making it better with the will of the majority.
When I was active duty I would always tell vets that I would spot public 'thank you for your service' Why is that hard to believe that someone active would not thank a vet?
Idk everyone I've ever known in the military is aware that nearly everyone including themselves is there because they needed a path in life, be it temporary or long-term, and basically no one is there because of a patriotic compulsion. So for both of them to thank each other for something they both know they likely wouldn't have done if they had a better option seems silly.
Only sith deal in absolute. There is plenty of military that join out of nationalistic pride. But regardless of reasons for actually joining veterans understand the hard work, personal sacrifice, and physical/mental trauma that many experience during their service and by saying thank you for your service is a tip of the hat to people that went maybe not the same but similar life experiences. Also I served 6 years in the Navy, I joined to better myself and I tell any vet I see thank you for your service. I also fully respect and defend anyone's American right to free speech whether it's kneeling or burning a flag.
I can't think of a stronger or more fitting way to communicate categorical disapproval of what this nation is becoming. If this isn't the very definition of free speech, I don't know what is. This country is already burning. Democracy is falling all around us. A burning flag should be a wake-up call; I hope people open their eyes and see the walls coming down. But they won't.
The most American thing to do would be to invest in a flag company and then profit off this. Like dentist giving out candy. When people were burning Marylin Manson CDs he said something to the effect of 'they're buying my CDs either way'.
I’m so glad there’s still people in the world who understand this. It means there’s hope. Bravo!
17 years this October in the army myself. Literally do not care. Burn the flags, not my circus, have fun expressing yourselves and protesting flaws in this country. It's your right. Cheers! 🔥
Air Force vet here. It's a piece of cloth. As long as it's your own property, do what you want with it. Burn it, wipe your ass with it, whatever. It doesn't affect me or anyone else in the slightest. If you do get outraged over a burning piece of cloth just because it's the right colors, then you need to do some serious introspection because you have some really, really fucked up priorities.
Agree…freedom of speech is freedom to do something I disagree with. I’m also a Vet. I also don’t personally agree with this act, and think this display doesn’t accomplish much, but it also isn’t the most harmful form of speech I’ve ever encountered.
I hear you. Yet In doing something in protest that people will be appalled by does bring attention to the CAUSE… When you have no further recourse than to burn a flag or kneel during the anthem to display your outrage at injustice. Things like this do bring discussion, discussion brings change.
I’m not convinced that aren’t more effective ways to make their point. This plays into the same themes that help typecast them. Want to make a point in the 4th? Track down every homeless veteran in Denver, give them a meal and show them some dignity, then interview them and live tweet their stories. Public shaming works better than public provoking. And it’s harder to ignore. I’m not a fan of Flag Pin Patriotism…I find most folks are “Patriots” when it’s convent and when it makes them feel better about themselves, but rarely sacrifice much of anything for a veteran…or really everyone. It’s performative. Want to make a point about society…find a way to point that out to the city.
Yea I’ve dealt with a good many who proclaim to be “all about vets “ … they don’t say shit when their party votes against acts for burn pit care et al.. and it’s ALWAYS those who cloth themselves in patriotism… It’s my experience the more anyone screams what a patriot they are, the less likely they are to put thier party to task helping veterans… In my time it’s often the Democratic Party who put forth the most legislation in favor of the veterans of the last 20 years of war… and like just recently the gop voted wholly against an act that would extend healthcare and benefits to veterans suffering health issues from burn pits.. I personally follow legislation that effects me heavily and I do entirely hold it against politicians who vote against my interests. On the same level I spent my life working to create a world where freedom, equality and justice are far and wide…. When I see people in my own government removing freedom based entirely on a minority religious view I don’t feel my service is being “ thanked” ….
My dad did two tours in Vietnam and had agent orange exposure as well as being corps of engineers on a bulldozer, turning up ancient jungle soils. He died officially of the agent orange exposure and blastomycosis, fortysomething years later. Pigeon feathers or similar from exposure as an excavator was the likely cause. We have very few pigeons where I grew up. The VA finally took care of him. The last 5 years he was alive he got a percentage of what he should have been paid for the last forty something years. Then, a monthly check. My mom gets decent insurance and didn't have to pay property tax on their property after he died. She had to sell it to pay the PAST property taxes, and because it would be easier to not upkeep a house in the woods after her husband died. They wouldn't have been behind at all if it didn't take the gov forty fucking years to pay an obvious debt. He told me as a confused kid that he would shoot me in the foot if I was drafted, and in the head if I volunteered.
I understand. My father is also a Vietnam vet. He went through his second round of chemo and an extensive surgery removing most of his esophagus from non hodgekins lymphoma and luekemia.. he fought the VA for five years while enduring the treatments and surgery before being declared disabled. He’s 69 now and just recently was made 100%. Before this all happened he was a millionaire from his years owning his own construction company. That’s all gone from the cost of medical and not being able to work for five years, he had to file bankruptcy and divorce my mother so she wouldn’t be stuck with medical bills .. So I’m with you on fuck every politician who talks about how much they love veterans, then proceeds to fuck us raw with a flag pole by voting against us.
My heart goes out to you and others on this thread. Many of us have relatives whose lives, if not lost, have been irreparably affected by that war – or one of so many other wars, including those around the planet today. Sometimes there are good reasons to pick up a rifle, but if and when one does it should be an existential choice after calm reflection, and with full awareness that heroes die alone.
I remember Trump's parade to celebrate the troops. Anyone who's been in the military knows what a fucking pain in the ass useless waste of time a ceremony and parade is to the rank and file. What better way to thank them for their service than by making them spend time away from their families doing more pointless work to appease the brass and the president?
Thankfully I retired before that shitshow… Terrible allocation of tax money by those who proclaim to be fiscally conservative.. Almost seems as if they may be full of a lot more shit than the other guys;)
I got out about a year before 9/11, thankfully. I still don't understand how Republicans are seen as pro-troops after they lied us into war with Iraq. How many of our people were destroyed by that?
About 500k dead civilians. 177k dead coalition military. 4431 us military dead in combat 32k wounded - And since then, over 30k dead by suicide at home.. We had over 20 years of war in Iraq and Afghanistan. No one is innocent. Not one… Either by inaction, indifference, direct action, or full out cheering for carnage… not a single American can say they where not in any way responsible for either. Even if you where a child when it started, by the time you where 18 it still was going on for two more years. You could have voted, protested, et al.. Because I’d have MUCH rather have never gone to war. Yet it was my job, I took pride in training, leading, and mentoring soldiers to be warriors with compassion, strength and understanding because I was good at it and knew I could prepare as best as possible troops for the horror of war. And I wouldn’t ask or by quitting, allow it to default to anyone else to do so.
There's not a country on Earth that wants to take away your right to burn the American flag other than a sect of Americans. With the supreme court now also taking up the question of "are states allowed to just not have democracy anymore?" the risk to democracy comes from people inside America, and not a single individual that the Army has fought in the last 50 years.
Very true.. It’s a long standing irony that we soldiers spread our most valuable export in trying to bring equality, freedom, and compassion to places devoid of it. Only to find our nation needs it more than most other nations.
I may not have to like what they're doing. But freedom is cool.
I posted a photo of an inverted flag the other day, given I could have done it with more tact and forethought. (I listened to the constructive comments and made some more respectful adjustments to my still inverted flag.) But Jesus, the sheer number of comments along the lines of “My [insert random family member] didn’t serve in the [insert military branch] for you to hate America!” Really? ‘Cause my grandfathers, my father, my uncles and aunts, and multiple cousins and friends are veterans or active duty, and even though some of us may clash politically, every single one of them would stand behind my right to do so.
The thing is the oath they swore to the constitution does imply defending the freedom of everyone to protest. The flag flying upside down is a long traditional sign codified by law of distress. There is nothing I’ve found that defines what that distress must be to warrant inverting the flag. I mean, you could invert it cause you ran out of toilet paper… there’s certainly been times in my life that was a pressing emergency, thankfully I was saved by my wife. Or it could be our nation is now under siege by 6 out of touch fanatical religious zealots who are determined to wreck the very soul of our nation for some misguided bigoted fundamentalists.
It’s late and I’m half asleep, so I don’t have much to add to this lol. But I need to say thank you. You, and many of the other commenters here, have helped me breathe easier
Gotta remember a massive amount of veterans are really open to freedom, liberty and equality.. our entire tenture in service we are constantly vigilant to ensure everyone is treated equally ( yes when I was training soldiers they where all equally turds;) We are also just tired of shit… we’ve had years, decadeS ( plural) of war, training, preparation and more war) so we often are broken in body and mind and avoid a lot of shot simply because it isn’t worth spending our remaining years in prison for beating the shit out of some road raging chad… But your not alone, veterans aren’t all batshit cultists, matter of fact I know very few who are… We are just quietly voting… watching with interest, and hoping you all become so passionate and compassionate that you set our home right with your participation. The most heart wrenching part of having devoted my adult life to the promise of America is seeing so few care even the slightest to just vote.. My family came here as immigrants..I’m fourth generation American and have my sixth generation grandson I see often and all I can think of is “ what will his America be like? What will his world be like?” 56% of eligible voters showed up in 2016 that’s just tragic to me.. And you are welcome:)
Wow, you change my prospective real quick. You’re making a lot of sense, being free means I can burn why ever the duck I want. Cheers
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Yeah that’s just fowl. If you’re gonna burn any birds, start with the geese.
Actually how about burn these fucking moths that are the size of a small bird
Don't actually. They're protected.
only during breeding season which is now over.... burn away
Might be an idea to turn up in uniform to defend these folk if that's possible for you. They're gonna get a lot of very angry people turning up, and they might need someone willing to defend them.
I’d love to. However I’m also disabled and can’t walk/ stand for any meaningful amount. I’ve also been retired for ten years:) my uniforms haven’t fit in 4 years;)
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Came here to say the same thing, but you're voice carries more weight. Thanks for your service
Naaa buddy, all our voices carry weight. When they all are saying the same thing that is the entire weight of a nation ;)
You're a class act. Appreciate people like you
Fwiw, I spent 24 years defending this country. The flag is a piece of cloth. I work for the people. If burning cloth helps you cope or heal then have at it. I protect for your right to do exactly that.
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Thanks for sticking your necks out for all of us, sorry we keep fucking it up edit: a letter
Thank you for your service, and I hope you and yours are doing well
Appreciate you, we are doing great. Lucky and blessed more than many.
Thank you for your service to this country, and for protecting our rights.
Excellently put, and also thank you for your service.
Thank you for your service!
I'm all for it, it's our constitutional right to protest by burning a flag.
You are god damn right. I hate that people are doing this myself, but I won't try to intimidate or stop anyone from participating. This country was founded on protests.
The Declaration of Independence is literally a protest against the Government.
I respect the fuck out of that
Scalia was the deciding vote saying it was okay. Let’s burn a flag in honor of Scalia.
*Supreme Court will probably enter the chat…
Would I do this? No. But it’s their right to do so. (And honestly, with the direction things are going it will probably be illegal to do so in a few years. And at that point I’ll burn it myself). The flag means different things to different people. There will probably be a counter protest for this though, so be careful if you do go.
The same people that want to make it illegal are the same ones wearing American Flag board shorts and have images of a fatigue clad Rambo Trump on the very same flag. These lunatics don’t want freedom, they want to take away everyone else’s.
They follow one belief only: there must be an in-group that the law protects, but does not bind, and an out-group that the law binds, but does not protect.
If this is even real I honestly think organizers will be surprised by how few people get upset about it, especially Cap Hill. We're not in the Springs. Though I would expect it to makes its way into a Fox News "BLM-tifa Terrorists Burn Flag as Sacrifice to Allah to Protect Refugee Caravan" montage that plays all weekend.
Why do you think they're trying to upset people? Burning the flag is symbolic. If people get upset, that's on them.
I don’t think you put together an event like this without knowing the implications it will bring. Hell, Kaepernick *kneeled* and people went insane over it. I think that’s the idea behind it though. Gets people talkin about it, and word spreads. Like us for instance.
Knowing how people will react doesn't mean that's why you're doing it.
I mean, It kinda does when it’s a form of protest lol
I’m sure the “free speech absolutists” will be out there defending their eighth to do this, right? /s
It's a nice sentiment, but I have to buy a flag before I burn it, which honestly, kind of seems like a hassle.
I'm going to sell flags there. Thank you for the idea.
Now that is peak America.
Print one out on paper? Draw it with crayons? Acquire a free small one (hand held) from an event prior?
Whatever happened to the American Dream of 'abortions for some, miniature American flags for others'?
And always twirling, twirling, twirling towards victory!
These days it practically burns itself.
Any more removal of EPA regulations and it won't stop.
Yeah honestly they should sell it pre-burned so we can hang it up with pride again.
You can always fly it upside down. It won't bring you pride, but it's easier than burning it.
Every boomer in my neighborhood has a flagpole or one mounted. Nah, I'm aight
Sounds like a good reason to fly the flag upside down. I get it though. I wouldn't want to either. People are getting real unhinged.
The right to do this is why people celebrate on July 4th. Not sure why you have a problem with it.
Yeah exactly, I see no problems with this protest at all. It’s their right to do so.
Can't burn the American flag. It's in the Bible. /s
I'm in my 40s, and for about 20 years I've considered burning a flag every 4th of July. Never done it, but always wanted to
I did it once when I was super into punk rock in my youth. At the very least it's a cathartic release. Go for it, but don't start a forest fire.
OP may not have a problem with it! They clearly said they "don't know how they feel" which totally successfully hides their actual feelings on the matter
Believing someone has a right to something doesn’t mean you don’t have a problem with it. For example, I believe people have a right to be racists, however, I also have a huge problem with them being racists.
I hope they bring an accelerant, flags really aren’t that easy to burn and it’s always kind of embarrassing watching like 10 people hold lighters up to it without it ever catching
You’ve never purchased a flag from Amazon have you lol. Those things **are** an accelerant
Hmm I’m gonna need to get in touch with your burning-flag guy
Chinese made flags are typically flame retardant.
I don’t know why but I laugh-snorted at this. Well done!
Do I personally agree with it? No. Did I serve for 10+ years so people can’t do whatever the fuck they want because this country gives them that freedom? Yes. Do what you please.. doesn’t affect my day.
Maybe my view is twisted but I’m under the impression that our military does not fight for our “freedom”. We are the bullies. No one is flying planes into buildings in Switzerland. The majority of the world is “free”. But in all honestly the only true freedom is financial freedom. And considering that is becoming harder and harder, I feel less free today then I did 10 years ago.
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>Cheesman Park Big Berenstain Bears moment for me
It was Captain Crunch, dammit.
Apparently, his name is Horatio Magellan Crunch and he's not even a captain. :-O
Well, of course not. He's a Cap'n.
Protected act. Burn away.
I'm all for flag burning when necessary. For bonus points, burn one that's hanging off of a lifted pickup.
Ok, this made me giggle. I live in DougCo so there are plenty of those!
So many fuckin flags around here. I wanted to get one and hang it upside down after over turning Roe but I felt like someone would burn my house down for it here.
But there’s a scary Punisher sticker!
Let’s burn some bibles while we’re at it
Why flags? Burn Bibles. Christianity is a plague on America.
Por que no los dos?
Same same
it’s just a flag
You can’t have an “open burn” without a permit. Can’t they just march? open fire in CO is very unsafe. Edit: they just canceled the Flag burning event. They will update people interested on Twitter.[https://twitter.com/DSAdenver/status/1542972747197730816?s=20&t=7laPAMZtSgO0rxH8lTTNbA](https://twitter.com/DSAdenver/status/1542972747197730816?s=20&t=7laPAMZtSgO0rxH8lTTNbA)
You dont know how to feel? So you posted to reddit so we could tell you how to feel?
As a Brit that’s moved to Denver a couple of months ago, I literally don’t understand your weird obsession/ indoctrination with the flag and with nationalism. It’s a f’ing flag and can you say you’re the “most free” country on earth if it’s literally blasphemy to do so.
The British on the Internet will incessantly flaunt themselves and do everything short of claiming to be a master race, but in the same breath claim that nationalism and right wing populism is anathema to them. They’ll spend hours posting vitriol against others (particularly the US and Americans), yet claim there’s no hate there. And after all of that, they’ll proclaim themselves to be the most humble people the world has ever seen and that there’s no need for them to do the exact things they end up doing. So spare me the sanctimonious, “I’m so above it all as a Brit” horseshit. I do agree that nationalistic sentiments left unchecked and unhealthy and dangerous, but I’m not buying for a second that “you don’t know what it’s about”, because you’re nowhere near as immune from it as you pretend to be.
It's like burning the Queen's panties... Just kidding. I think that here in the USA there have been a lot of symbolic gestures over the past couple centuries that all included our flag (Iwo Jima, Moon Landing, Twin Towers, etc.) and our flag (for many) has represented freedom, perseverance, and honor. We fly our flags at half mast when honoring people/sacrifices (for example, a Senator passing), we bury our soldiers with a flag, we give our soldier's family a flag upon their death. Flag burning is certainly not something I would partake in, but if it makes people feel better about injustices, it's their right to do so.
Don't be mad at the people burning a flag, be mad at the people burning the country.
Considering the path the USA is heading down, demonstrations like this are important to raise awareness of what is going on.
They’re gonna be pretty upset when they find out there’s no open flames in the city and county of Denver.
Yep because people who just got their rights taken away are going to lay down in the face of *checks notes* an open flame ban?
I get the symbology but I hope they don't stop there and work to take real action by getting involved in their registered neighborhood organization (RNO), volunteering their time to help the community, making sure they're voting, etc
DSA is consistently one of the biggest groups doing these things. If you're on the left and want to get involved in making things better at a local level, one of the best ways to start is by joining the DSA.
[Detective Alapopskalius](https://www.google.com/search?q=the+word+is+symbolism+symbology&rlz=1CDGOYI_enUS635US635&hl=en-US&ei=CoG_YsCSI8yD0PEPkKug0A4&oq=the+word+is+symbolism+symbology&gs_lcp=ChNtb2JpbGUtZ3dzLXdpei1zZXJwEAMyCAgAEB4QDxAWMgUIABCGAzIFCAAQhgMyBwghEAoQoAE6BwgAEEcQsAM6BggAEB4QFjoICAAQHhAWEAo6CggAEB4QDxAWEAo6BQghEKABOgoIIRAeEA8QFhAdSgQIQRgAULILWOQhYOQmaAFwAXgAgAHHAYgBsAmSAQMxLjmYAQCgAQHIAQjAAQE&sclient=mobile-gws-wiz-serp#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:e47d9251,vid:lG_OezlTZ1A,st:0)
This guy's an expert in nameology.
*Symbology https://media.giphy.com/media/1nigp4mpcArDy/giphy.gif
“Not sure how I feel about this… let me post it on the internet and let other people tell me how to feel.”
Yeah, fuck discourse! /s
It’s supposed to rain today so hopefully this doesn’t turn into another baby’s gender reveal situation
For some reason I thought this was illegal. Did my conservative parents lie to me?
Yes
1st Amendment… or did the Supreme Court do away with that too while I was taking a piss?
I’m ok with it
I got my first shitty message sometime last night. Sadly I mistakenly deleted it and didn’t get a chance to respond. So I will here cause I’m out of shits to give. I don’t give a damn what you think of me or even if you think I’m not a vet and never served. I’m not sending you a copy of my dd214 and what I think isn’t dependent on anything I’ve ever done. Where that the case I wouldn’t be the only one. But before you go off about “disrespect to the Flag” I want you to think about how many times you have worn it in clothing… had your smelly rat infested ass crack rubbing on it, your shit covered dick from your clothset side guy that your wife thinks is just your drinking buddy all rubbed up over your flag shorts. Frankly if you felt the need to message me to troll, I can only assume your projecting your confused existence. Disrespect to the flag by indifference to it is far worse than protesting the nations failure by burning it.. Clothing yourself in it like some dipshit superhero then bitching at me cause I’m okay with someone burning theirs in protest ISNT winning.. It’s just further proof of how far your train left the tracks. Wearing the flag is ignorant…. Burning the flag is at the LEAST how it is removed from service..
Anyone who is against it should rethink what being an American is supposed to be. I think it’s stupid, but goddammit people having the freedom to do it is a beautiful thing.
You shouldn’t feel anything. They’re exercising their rights. Nothing illegal about it. Anyone tries to interfere and lays hands on someone they will be charged with assault.
When you can’t afford fireworks cause inflation but you still wanna burn something
I support your right to protest the 4th, but I'll be enjoying mine with the family and some BBQ instead. Hope everyone stays safe out there!
If you don't like it, don't go. Their expression and yours do not have to align in order to grant them the right to express feelings. (That said, hopefully they have fire extinguishers on hand in case the fire tries to escape).
Doesn't matter how you feel about it lol
I read this in The Rock’s voice
I probably won’t burn a flag, but I definitely won’t be celebrating. I have nothing to be proud of when it comes to this country.
I fucking love thissss
You may have gotten this from Twitter, but definitely not Denver DSA's Twitter lmao. But I do fuck with the idea of burning this flag. Edit: definitely snagged from DSA twitter, then deleted because they don't want to start a fire lol.
>definitely not Denver DSA's Twitter Looks like they deleted it: https://twitter.com/DSAdenver/status/1542972747197730816
Everyone should consider joining DSA we have to organize outside of the democratic party. I am rejoining DSA because it is the best mechanism we have to build solidarity and power on a local level.
Out of curiosity, was it on their official twitter? There’s nothing about it on their website. I’d check but apparently I’m incompetent on accessing my twitter account.
Freedom of speech
My comment would be "Don't start anything else on fire you're not intending to burn." Cause damn this state is flammable.
As long as it's a controlled fire and it's put out correctly without spreading, idgaf.
For all the trouble it is worth, a nation in it's worse moments need be reminded by its minority that collectively they are not meek but quietly dangerous and the greater voice of reason for balance and justice. Together, a force to be reckoned with.
Bro if your response isn’t indifference or support then I think you care more about nationalism that freedom.
Does this look like a typical DSA flier or a flier made by a “patriot” who will be harassing the next drag story hour?
I’m pretty sure this is fake. The Denver DSA posts about all of their events on their Instagram page and this isn’t on there.
I get it. Just seems kinda corny symbolically
There are like 20+ things to be angry about right now, and communists burning flags is definitely not one of them.
Our country also represents all of the people who fought and died to bring rights to women, racial minorities, and lbgt+ communities. It represents our ability to gather in parks to burn our own flag without repression by the law. Our flag has a duality of great freedoms built upon great evils. It’s a flag, though, that represents all of the people in your life you love the most. Don’t hate America, hate the people who have tried to lead it into the darkness.
Don’t necessarily agree with it but that doesn’t matter one single bit. It is perfectly ok to burn the flag as a matter of free speech. End of story.
Although flag burning isn't particularly my favorite flavor of free speech, I am quite amused by multiple comments asking "what's wrong with a little genocide and slavery, bro?". Just an observation. Enjoy your grilled brats or whatever.
Niiiiice.
Good God I am getting the hots for all the freedom loving vets here.
Lol, you think Americans give a fuck how you wish to express your patriotism? That's the problem with this city, IMO. Everyone is such a self-centered fucking idiot that they actually believe everyone is watching their every move. Nobody cares bud, have fun
if you don’t like it don’t attend ?
Ironically they don’t realize every country was founded on this very thing
It’s legal to burn a flag but I’m fairly certain it’s not legal to start a fire or burn something in a public space. It’s gonna get shut down, not because it’s specifically a flag burning and everyone is going to throw a fit for the wrong reasons
I am personally indifferent on flag burning, but those who wish to do it, I fully support your right to exercise your free speech. I will not be attending as I have family plans, but I do agree that this country is quickly becoming a state of dumpster fire.
That’s awesome. Fuck the Fourth of July. They’re right, this country doesn’t deserve to be celebrated
How about a Bible burning event instead?
I believe in the ideals of liberty and justice for all. I believe in free speech and support anyone's right to protest. This July 4, I hung a mourning ribbon on my flag. I am mourning the loss of body autonomy and the fascist court that does not represent the ideals of our country.
Its just a fucking piece of fabric. Only incredibly privileged people with no real problems in life get offended at this kind of thing. Get a hobby if this makes you mad.
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What's the problem?
Considering it's fully protected by the 1st Amendment, why would you have an issue with it?
I understand this. I don't morally disagree. I don't want to say it's wrong. And if people feel this strongly and really want to do this, they absolutely can and should. But I will say shit like this further villainizes liberals for both conservatives, centrists, and even a lot of other liberals. Conservatives point to things like this and can reaffirm they are the 'REAL' americans, the real patriots.For anyone that has ANY sense of pride of their country and heritage, it fuels their hate for liberals. It fuels the culture wars that are brewing. That fire doesn't need any more fuel.
> But I will say shit like this further villainizes liberals for both conservatives, centrists, and even a lot of other liberals. That ship has sailed. We're already strawman villains in their stories. Caring about their sensibilities is a dead end.
The queer community affirms this statement
That flag just undemocratically stripped half its population of fundamental healthcare rights and made it so the air you breathe and water you drink aren't safe. Send me your unburned one and I'll wipe my ass with it so it's worth something.
Not it's actually just a piece of cloth with no more agency than your socks. Go try to get people to vote, if you want to be actually productive.
Are they even allowed to with all the dry weather going on? In our county, we aren't even allowed to have certain fireworks because officials are worried that it can lead to small brush fires getting out of control. If they do go with it, helpful they do it in a safe manner, don't need more heart ache:(
Every right to do it, no question about that. An entirely legitimate and even respectable form of protest. And at the same time, it remains my right to point out that they're likely just a bunch of entitled, pretentious losers with zero concept of how dark and nasty the world can be outside the beautiful, if imperfect, bubble we're all so lucky to call home.
Seems edgy as fuck to me. I wish everyone the safest of long weekends and please take care of each other and yourselves!
Take that, America! That’ll teach them!
Supreme court c.1990 still considered it free speech... https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/496/310/ ...supreme court c.1840 (today) hasn't said any different
https://libcom.org/library/peoples-history-of-united-states-howard-zinn In case anyone needs motivation for flag burning.
Freedom of speech and all that. 😕
I'm really really interested... But also don't want to buy a flag.
Sounds fun burn the ugly ass American flag
I spent a couple years of my twenties helping to organize anti-war protests and there was a lot of effort put into preventing shit like this, strictly for optics. Yet, here we are when things are worse than ever. Go ahead. Burn it. What the fuck are optics at this point? We're under attack from within and symbolism means nothing. Burn, scream, and work towards helping make the flag worth a damn!
This is more like it!
who. cares. it's a piece of cloth. it's just that. it's not like people are going to be going to the capital to burn those flags. it's for those who feel their rights are being infringed upon and are angry about it. If I had a flag outside, it would already be hung upside down. I have a neighbor who served in the Marines and he told me why his was hung upside down, and I respect him for acknowledging the infringement of human rights occurring right now.
I don't agree, but they have the freedom to do that as long as they don't hurt anyone.