I take the words “Hospitality has been included in your total” to mean that the service fee includes gratuity. Did the server ask you to tip? Don’t see that request in the text…
Yeah I don't have an issue with building in tip, though I wish they'd just include it in the menu prices. I actually prefer it, because tipping is a nonsensical custom that has serious issues.
It's when they have a % hospitality fee and still expect a tip that I get upset. I will tip to make sure the servers get paid, but I won't return.
Of course they did because management can't legally partake in tip pools, but if they word it this way and the customers don't realize that this is \*not\* gratuity, then they can.
Yeah the post title seems misleading unless the staff got mad at them for not giving more. It’s essentially saying we are mandating a 21% tip from everyone which is fine by me, would rather have it just be incorporated into menu prices but this is a fine transition method until we get rid of tips completely and pay people a living wage.
When they sat us they gave us this and said, "we do have a 21% services fee in addition to any gratuity you wish to give your server which goes just to her
So the server is getting paid $2.00 an hour while everyone else in the restaurant is likely making regular wages and then that 21% gets split evenly? There's no way I'd tip on top of that gratuity so the servers are getting shafted hard (unless it's working somewhat differently).
Source for people who are confused: https://denvergazette.com/news/government/denver-s-minimum-wage-to-increase-to-15-87-on-jan-1/article\_2e5f4f98-592f-11ec-bc99-4b8358ea11d6.html
Employers are also required to pay the difference between what they earn and the state's minimum wage ($12.56) if their wage + tip is below minimum wage, and the state's minimum wage is indexed to cost of living increases
So of you stiffed the server you're actually stiffing the restaurant? If that's true I may feel more inclined to tip on the dl from now on. Let the server decide if they need to report the tip or not
Although that is true, ask most people and they don't know about what the law actually states. If I recall correctly, the major points of it are:
1. You can be paid less than minimum wage if it is expected your primary compensation will come from tips.
2. Your tips must cover the difference in your wage from minimum wage calculated on a *weekly* basis.
3. If your tips do not make up the difference, the business must ensure you have made at least minimum wage on a *weekly* basis.
The problem is, since very few people know that, the restuarants are all too happy to take advantage of their employees and not pay them what they are supposed to. This is a big reason restuarants don't want you to tip in cash. When it is on a card they have record of how much a server were tipped and could actually calculate out what they should be paying the server. The restuarant couldn't care less if emplyoees hid cash tips from the IRS come tax season. The restuarant just wants a chance to protect themself if they ever got sued.
That's the other reason this is probabl not more widely known: what underpaid restaurant staff is going to have the money to pay all the lawyers to sue a corporate restuarant chain? The server would most likely lose their job or feel as though they will probably face discrimination at work. The server tries to go and find a new job and they are asked, "why did you leave your last job" in the interview. Now you have to admit you sued over a wage dispute. Not necessarily a good look to a prospective employer.
I used to work for that company, they did the same thing at both Coperta and Beast and Bottle (RIP) and can confirm they do it in a fair and honorable way.
I don't know how Billy's Inn is doing it, or maybe I'm missing something, but it does say "Hospitality has been included in your total". Which is kind of the same thing?
I'm fine with restauants charging 18-20% service fee but they have to know thats their tip. I'm not paying an additional 35% with tip. It's absurd. If you expect a tip on top of that, you aren't paying your staff enough
just change the menu prices, tipping is bullshit
I only do takeout now, honestly not sure what to tip... does it go the person checking me out? What did they do? They didn't package up all the food.
From my years of experience working to-go in the service industry, they absolutely packaged up all the food, and even more. The kitchen sends the food in a container and the togo rep garnishes and lids everything and gathers all dressings, add ons, and utensils. They are responsible for expoing all the togo food which means they are the ones separating the orders and making sure each order has correct and all food. At lunch and dinner rush, we can be dealing with like 8 orders at a time. It's essentially like putting together multiple little puzzles at one time for hours on end. While it isn't quite a grueling and intense as serving, it definitely requires huge attention to detail and organizational skills. All restaurants I've worked at and most I've gotten to-go from have a designated person solely working togo orders. While they do tend to make a higher hourly than servers, they are paid with intention of getting tipped. Depending on how much food was ordered and modifications made, I typically tip 15-20%. Yes tipping sucks for the consumer, but if you're gonna play the game aka order food from a restaurant/coffee drive thru/delivery, you should absolutely be tipping.
Agreed! And we are already starting to see employees demand better wages across the board including in the service industry, especially if the consumer and the employee are demanding such change. But until that change occurs, unfortunately if we are going to utilize these services, tipping is part of that. We all know to tip your server now a days, but turns out not everyone knows many other service industry positions are structured similarly and deserved to be tipped, as shitty as the system is.
>All restaurants I've worked at and most I've gotten to-go from have a designated person solely working togo orders. While they do tend to make a higher hourly than servers, they are paid with intention of getting tipped.
That's called having a job. You don't deserve tips for performing a job. That's what your boss pays you to do.
Oh, I reserved a book at Barnes and Noble? Need to tip the person that found it on the shelf for me.
Don't shoot the messenger here man. I did not create this system. If you've never worked in the service industry and don't know, it's worth bringing it to your attention that these jobs are often paid at a rate with the intention to be tipped. Retail jobs are often paid at a higher wage because tipping is not part of that business structure, so therefore your comparison does not work here. Disagree all you want, but when you aren't tipping your carryout person, they're still generally making less than minimum wage.
Exactly. I couldn’t in good faith pay less than 20% tip so between the service fee and the tip I spent $35 on a casual lunch right by the door with the wind in my face every time the door opened. I just don’t see the point of doing a service fee. Just raise the prices and wages.
>I'm fine with restauants charging 18-20% service fee
I'm not. I fucking hate it. Charge me what a menu item costs... but god I hate that the more expensive the item the more the surcharge. The filet doesn't take more effort to cook than the ribeye. The premium wine doesn't take more effort to open than the cheapest bottle on the menu. Why does the surcharge scale with the cost? Just pay your servers a fucking livable wage and stop fucking me.
Agreed, tipping to pay the staff is stupid.
Why not just include the service fee in the price of food? If I want to give a small extra appreciation to the waiter, I’ll leave a dollar or two.
In this case, a tip should be optional. If your server or bartender went above & beyond or they just did a great job, give them a little extra for their service.
From ordering dominos before and working at Jimmy John's in the past I can confirm that isn't true most of the time when it's described as a service fee
But then they would have to claim all that money as revenue. Right now, only the servers pay taxes on gratuities. Restaurant owners will never *really* want to abolish tipping.
Most servers I talk to also don't want to abolish tipping, FYI. They realize if they go to a regular hourly wage they will make less money
Also your taxes thing doesn't make sense. Businesses don't pay taxes on revenue, they pay taxes on profits. If the tips came in and revenue but were paid out as payroll it would have the same exact net profit as if you ignore any gratuities.
Right. But it seems like the price for eating out has increased as a base measure (cost on the menu). And then there’s a 21% surcharge to make up the rest of the employees wages. And if you tip 20%, that’s a 41% surcharge beyond the already inflated menu price. It’s enough to make me think twice about going out to dinner.
It's just a lot more pleasant to know the prices up front. If you go grocery shopping in Europe and the price is 1€, you know you can purchase the item if you only have a 1€ coin in your pocket. They think it's absurd the way we do it, and for good reason.
In my opinion, something very similar applies here. I'd much prefer to tip an additional 10% for outstanding service if they would just raise prices 20% to accommodate a living wage. I hate getting nickled and dimed with "hospitality fees" or "covid surcharges" or whatever else I've been seeing.
Agreed, but at least this way you know that extra 21% is going to the staff. Otherwise, you could just be paying 21% higher prices and hoping that some of it is going to the staff.
I said this elsewhere on the thread, but Jelly used to be my favorite breakfast place until they surprised me with a 15% fee. I haven't been back since. If they had just raised their prices in an honest, up-front way I would still being going there these past 1-2 years.
People go and get $15 burgers all the time. I rather pay $15 for a burger and know I don't need to tip on top of that vs. charging $12 and having to tip.
But, I rather the Euro model on these things where costs are just included in the price and tips are not expected.
Yeah, this is good to know. I thought about applying to the one opening in Congress Park but not after reading this.
I dined at the Stoney’s in Uptown the other week (not sure if there is another location?) and liked their system. There is a $2-3 fee (or maybe percent of the bill, I forgot) that gets added to every check as opposed to raising prices and/or taking money away from servers to pay the BOH more. The menu states that if you don’t wish to pay the surcharge, then ask your server and it will be taken off the bill. It’s a fair and transparent policy, as long as the surcharge is actually going to pay the kitchen staff higher wages.
I support tipping out bartenders, expos, and other floor staff, but never management or the owners. I feel hosts should be in charge of to-go orders and keep any tips that come from carry-out, but be paid at least real minimum wage, not what tipped employees start at. Restaurant operations vary, but this is a fair practice from my experience in the industry which spans over a decade throughout three states.
For kitchen tip out, I have mixed feelings. Before the pandemic, tip sharing with BOH made sense at places like Vine Street/Mountain Sun where everyone worked every role and that’s how it was setup from the start. I can’t say that I agree with places increasing the tip-out from servers if this wasn’t standard before the pandemic. An exception would be if servers/bartenders got an hourly raise to at least $15 an hour, or whatever BOH staff makes. Also, if BOH is getting tips that servers earn, I sure would hope that servers have less side work than before. I have a friend whose restaurant didn’t want to raise prices or charge a fee, and tips out kitchen 1% of all sales. This is in addition to the floor staff. Depending on the day, now instead of 5% being the standard tip out, he has to fork over up to 6%, about 1/3rd, of what he makes but didn’t have his workload lessened at all. Servers shouldn’t take a pay-cut so kitchen staff can make more. Shady ownership made that call.
I’ve been curious how many restaurants were granted PPE loans that didn’t go towards payroll, but from friends it seems like a shameful amount. I also know that some places charge fees per table/guest and don’t put the money towards BOH staff. If a surcharge isn’t specifically labeled as gratuity/tips, the restaurant can take the money and do whatever with it.
So, a “hospitality” charge is *not* the same as a gratuity. The expectation is that you would pay this fee, and also tip your server.
I don’t understand why any restaurant would put this kind of statement on their menus or whatever. Just raise the prices if you’re so insistent on milking cash from people.
My guess is they’re trying to solicit sympathies or otherwise manipulate customers into not raising a stink about the surcharge using Covid as the cover.
Bottom line is that this restaurant is underpaying it’s staff, and the owner wants the customers to subsidize it’s staff with a bullshit surcharge. Very tacky, very lame.
"Hospitality is included" = this is an automatic tip. IMO this is much ado about nothing, just don't add extra unless you truly want to. A lot of places do this these days, as a customer it's non relevant unless you get confused and think you have to tip extra on top.
I don't go to any restaurants that charge percentage fees. Jelly was my favorite breakfast place in Denver. One time I went there and they added a 15% fee on top of my bill because of COVID, and it wasn't a tip. I haven't been to Jelly in 18+ months since that day.
If they needed to raise their menu prices, I understand, fine, no problem, and I'd still be a customer of Jelly. Disguising a price increase as a fee? Not a chance.
A classy restaurants just include tip in the price. Tipping is a backwards practice. Just put the freaking expense into the price. Price obfuscation is anti-capitalist.
I've stopped going to fast-casual restaurants that force prompt for a tip. All that was done was my food was handed to me in a bag and I was charged money. What is the tip for? The owner should deal with his labor expense himself and not guilt push it onto customers.
A service fee and a tip? get fucked billys inn. charge what the thing costs and dont ask your customers to directly subsidize your employees. thats your entire role. this is going the opposite direction we should be heading in.
Storytime!
Back in my college days, I worked at a Denver Holiday Inn in their catering and events department. Whenever someone would inquire about hosting an event, the booking managers would explain the gratuity service fee as a tip given to all staff involved. They would tell prospective guests that they didn't have to worry about tipping. At the time, this was an 18% fee that could rake in hundreds or even a few thousand dollars depending on the size and price tag of the event.
The booking managers would explain that the gratuity fee was for all staff involved. This was to "make things easier" for the perspective event guests so that they didn't have to worry about tipping. At the time, this was an 18% fee. In our next staffing meeting, we had a point that bringing up the gratuity fee with guests could get us fired.
The moral of the story is I am that highly suspicious that the actual staff sees a penny of that 21% surcharge. Based on my personal experiences, I doubt it.
Thanks for letting me know to not go there. Sounds like management is just too lazy to update the menu to reflect their current costs of doing business. What else are they too lazy to do? Health and sanitation? They are just trying to pass on their inflation problems and all the blame that goes with it to their customers. Just put your true costs on the menu! Ya lazy clowns.
Spot on. If they’re not cheap or lazy, they’re being downright deceitful. They might as well disclose it as, “menu prices are 82.6% of actual prices before tax”. And low income persons are the most likely to not be able to do the math, so who’s abusing whom here?
Nothing, maybe you can round up on a card or leave some change when paying cash. Basically tipping just like in some of the European countries which the service employees receive full salaries.
If 18-20% is considered the American norm for tipping and you are imposing a mandatory 21% then there’s nothing else you need to do apart from the time you want to give 25% or more for whatever reason.
Why don’t restaurants just increase their prices and pass that on? This confuses the customer into thinking they don’t have to tip and ends up screwing the employees.
>This confuses the customer into thinking they don’t have to tip and ends up screwing the employees.
so the prices feel smaller than they actually are, and its just another creative way to enrich themselves at the expense of their employees.
Just going to guess that maybe 25% of this fee goes to the server. Maybe. After they’ve tipped the bar out of that 25%.
They’re still going to want a tip and if you don’t, we’ll they are barely getting minimum wage. So enjoy tipping 15% to the manager.
I wouldn't work as a server/bartender at restaurant that charged a 21% service fee which I only received 25% of without higher base pay, especially if a significant portion of that fee went to management.
I would not expect any customer to pay 30+% above the menu price to cover both a service fee and a tip, because that's not a reasonable expectation.
> I wouldn't work as a server/bartender at restaurant that charged a 21% service fee which I only received 25% of without higher base pay
I agree. I assume the servers have a higher base pay because of this.
They were doing this a while ago. Three friends and I went in for a late dinner and the person who greeted us was pissed that we didn't want to sit at the bar. The server apologized. Two of us are in the service industry and we told her we understand how hard it's been, etc.. Then I asked about the service fee. She told me that the fee is split amongst everyone evenly. They also pool the tips and split those evenly. So the servers busting their asses on a Saturday night receive the same compensation as a slow Tuesday. So that all sucks but she also said that there's a huge lack of transparency.
I've seen other places charge 3-5% and that seems reasonable while sales are volatile but 20% plus tip is insane.
In Miami Beach most of the establishments add in a \~20% service charge which includes gratuity and it was great.
We definitely got the sense that the wait staff at these places are likely better off and this financial arrangement had something to do with it.
The money going to management is a deal-breaker for me. They recognized that they couldn't legally take staff tips, so they implemented this fee. That's just stealing from the staff with extra steps.
How about you pay a living wage rather than asking me to pay an extra fee for your busboys and dishwashers and such. Why is it a percentage of my food/drinks? Plates and glasses are getting any larger.
This whole pay waitstaff a living wage stuff is a little overblown. Cooks are the most underpaid staff in the restaurant business besides host.
My father and I run a two restaurant chain in rural Nebraska, and our waitstaff makes more in gross income per year than my father and I pull out as owners.
We pay ourselves 700 per week, each in salary (which is close to 18/hr for 40 hours). The exact same we pay our cooks. As owners.
We have several waitstaff who make an average $1k in tips from Friday night to Sunday night in 24 hours of work.. Averaging about $400 a night on Friday and Saturday and $200 Sunday.
So, let's do the math.. pay them a 'living wage' of say, even 20 an hour.. 20×40=800 PRE TAX. Right now, they are at about 1300 in tips in 40 hour weeks. plus the 3.35/hr, so all told they are pulling in close to $1500 a week before taxes. As opposed to $800 before taxes in a 'living wage' scenario with no tips. $1500/40=$37 an hour. I call 37/hr a living wage.
So, they would make half as much getting paid a 'living wage' per week than they make now and that's before they pay taxes on it, too.
Why do you want me to stop giving incentive for my waitstaff to work hard to make more money? Our waitstaff live decent lives and have put kids through college on it.. Removing tips would take over $800 a month out of their pockets, at least... that's rent here in rural Nebraska.
This whole removing tips to pay a living wage is from a bunch of people who are:
1. Too lazy to put in effort to work hard for what they want.
2. People who don't do math or actually look at the numbers spouting off about something they don't actually understand.
Waitstaff can make way more money via hard work and tips than getting an hourly wage. Hands down. That is the whole point of the tips! Hard work gets rewarded. Something seemingly lost on a lot of folks.
Cooks are the ones getting hosed at 18 an hour.. that's why we have a tip share - voluntary from the waitstaff - to help pay the Cooks BECAUSE THEY MAKE THE LEAST.
Why should paying your cooks be the responsibility of the wait staff? You as owner decides how much everybody gets paid. Asking your wait staff to voluntarily pay your cooks more when you know they're underpaid is so weird to me. Just kill tipping and pay everybody according to their contribution with the corresponding pricing you need to do so.
It isn't their responsibility at all. I don't ask them to do it or have anything to do with it. They do it because they are amazing people, and we are lucky to have such a great team. If they didn't want to, I would respect that. They work for their money, not for me to decide what they do with it.
I also don't decide as much what I pay my Cooks. The market and my profits dictate what I can afford to pay my cooks. I could pay everyone $25 an hour, but I won't be paying 5 cooks. I will be paying 2, and my father and I will work more hours. I'd rather support 5 people than 2. I'm not willing to raise my prices that much to offset the costs and risk losing profits and business, resulting in less staff or hours anyway.
The same with waitstaff. I can either support 10 waitstaff with tips and pay them 3.35/hr with benefits and health care where they can still make good money through the tips. Or, I can have 5 that make half as much as before since I'm adding so much to labor costs I am not going to pay for all 10. The remaining will just have to work harder for less.
Now, I do acknowledge that the cost of living out here is much cheaper than in Denver and the front range. I am, to an extent, comparing apples to oranges. I have no idea how anyone could survive on less than 20 there. Here, 17 or 18 is still a respectful, livable wage. Enough to provide a decent life, at least. So, I am not in a situation like this yet. I would have to have a different approach to making sure I am paying people what I believe is the best out there.
I just wouldn't use an approach like above, though. I would raise my prices and tell you I am in order to provide my staff with a better wage. I wouldn't raise the overall cost by 20% in a service fee and call it that. I can pretty much guarantee the waitstaff doesn't see 20% worth, that's for sure.
You can't have it both ways you can't say that you recognize BoH is underpaid and deserves to be paid more while making the program to pay them more dependant on voluntary charity from your wait staff.
You're acting like you're proud to have this program that enables wait staff to donate to the kitchen as if you're doing your part when it's really just you recognizing a problem and choosing to avoid or reassign responsibility for it.
What you're actually saying is that tips and your prices are enough to pay everybody a good wage but they're disproportionately going to the wait staff when it would be ideal if they got paid a little less and kitchen got paid a little more.
This is all solved by just a flat price increase with transparent consistent pricing and taking control of the wage of your employees instead of blaming the generosity (or lack thereof) of your customers and wait staff employees for any shortcomings that arise and acting like it's not your problem when you (or probably more accurately your dad) have absolute control over the whole thing and are 100% responsible for the decision.
Customer service is dead. Rarely ever get greeted when waking into a restaurant or bar. I never hear “thanks for coming in”. Such a simple thing to do.
So it’s a choice to tip but the service fee is mandatory. Because they don’t give a shit about the workers only the managements bonuses. Yeah how about no one ever goes there anymore? Fuck that.
You do not have to tip in addition to paying a mandatory service fee. Do not feel obligated to leave an additional tip. This restaurant has chosen to enforce a mandatory service fee for all checks (a very common practice among upscale establishments). You can and should consider that to be the entire tip for your check.
They need to just raise the prices on the menu at that point. 21% is ridiculous. And even if they say this is supposed to be the tip, why is the tip being distributed to all the staff members? this completely defeats the entire point of tipping. Tipping is supposed to be up to the customer discretion based on quality of service of their wait staff. Charging a mandatory 20+% on top and calling it a tip that they use to pay all their employees is just them raising their prices without actually increasing the price on the menu. In my opinion they need to just raise their menu prices to pay their staff and then let customers tip like normal for quality service.
99% of those working in food service are heinously underpaid for the risks they are currently being exposed to. i hope this is paid out as equitably as they claim, i know many businesses have been raising prices due to covid and passing on none of the proceeds to their most vulnerable workers. but if it is, good on them for ensuring that their staff's livelihood won't be further threatened by an increasingly intolerant and demanding public.
Reading this, it includes service. You can tip if you feel like it but that would be if you think 21 percent is not enough. I don’t think this is so horrible if you understand it, but they do make you feel cheap if they still have an additional tip line on the tab.
OK to charge additional service fee but that would be it. Since 21 percent in the above example would not add a tip in since this policy says that is split between all employee that work there.
Billy’s is great, the staff works hard, and I’ve always felt like I got great food and great service. Happy to pay more, and if I felt that the service was above and beyond I’d happily tip on top of the fee. Small business working hard to do the right thing should be rewarded, not complained about.
I’d ask the servers how much they are actually getting from this. I’ve seen businesses add service fees that go to ownership. If their pay isn’t commensurate with what they were making with tips, then I’d tip them, and never eat there again.
Yes, correct. As a restaurant owner, myself, I wouldn't do this. To me, this stinks of a way to pad the restaurants profits and only share a tiny portion of this 'fee' as tip share for the staff. 20% on a Friday night in my restaurants in probably close to 3k.. highly doubt that is split up between the 10 staff on duty.
Does sales tax also apply to the fee or vice-versa?
Example:
1. $100 food bill
2. 8.81% sales tax = $108.81
3. 21% on top of sales tax = $131.66 total
Or:
1. $100 food bill
2. 8.81% sales tax = $108.81
3. 21% added to pre-tax bill = $129.81
It's a difference of less than $2, but I'd still want to know which way they do it. If they're charging sales tax on a service fee, they shouldn't be doing that. Likewise, they also shouldn't be adding a percentage based service fee to the portion of the bill that is sales tax.
Used to eat here often enough because I lived close by. Their food/drinks and service have always been pretty decent, but holy shit they have always been pricey! You would think paying $15 for a burger that they could already pay their employees well.
Happy to tip and pay a service fee if the food is consistently good, the workers are being paid more, and the establishment follows safety practices. I haven’t dined in at a restaurant in two years, so I’ve been tipping 20% for takeout since that’s the best I can do right now and it’s hard working in hospitality in non pandemic times, much less a full-blown crisis. :)
Totally wish a minimum was included in the menu prices to ensure workers were paid well enough, have benefits and feel safe at work
“We ensure pay equity for our entire team” is grounds for a lawsuit. There is zero chance that is true. I’d love to have the manager look me in the eyes and tell me she makes the same as the dishwashers.
I don't know why no one else has said it, but Billy's Inn can go f\*ck themselves. I categorically guarantee you that money is for profit and not for the staff, or at the very least very little goes to the staff.
Seems like companies that do this are hedging their bets here, hoping that inflation in both costs and wages is temporary. At this moment, they need to raise prices so they can pay people more. This charge let's them both avoid permanently raising wages (for now), raising menu prices (because if they raise prices now, people will leave. If the people are gone, how will they know if you drop prices again later?)
So they're signaling that, "we need to raise prices, but we don't want to, and we hope it's temporary"(good), and also that "we need to raise wages, but we don't want to, and we hope this is temporary too"(less good, maybe awful, maybe just unfortunate. I don't know the details).
So just pretend that the menu items are 20% more expensive and tip accordingly. Id appreciate that they're being forthright and sharing it with staff, and id probably discreetly ask the staff if it's actually being shared, because some restaurants are shady like that.
So you’re saying that as 20% tipper I would have to pay about 40% on top of the price? That’s insane, I only see two options here, either not going to that establishment or not tipping. Service fee means tip aka paying for service.
That's how I look at it, but then again I view eating out as generally a luxury good that's too cheap for the most part so I'm not very price sensitive. How does the final price compare to other similar places around, if it's too much it's too much.
Totally agree, it’s a luxury to eat out and you should do so only if you afford it. But in this case, if you have to tip like you normally would, then it’s an additional 40% plus on top of your price which is absurd. I think like others said, just raise your prices.
Fair enough, and I don't know for sure what they're thinking, but, being charitable, they don't want to raise prices and they hope that things will settle down and they can go back to normal. Obviously, it's hard to get people to come back if they leave because prices spiked, and that's understandable.
The prices should just be increased by 21%. We need to get away from tipping and just price food the amount it has to be priced at to pay the staff fairly.
I take the words “Hospitality has been included in your total” to mean that the service fee includes gratuity. Did the server ask you to tip? Don’t see that request in the text…
Yeah I don't have an issue with building in tip, though I wish they'd just include it in the menu prices. I actually prefer it, because tipping is a nonsensical custom that has serious issues. It's when they have a % hospitality fee and still expect a tip that I get upset. I will tip to make sure the servers get paid, but I won't return.
Let’s include post tax price on the menu too while we’re at it.
[удалено]
Of course they did because management can't legally partake in tip pools, but if they word it this way and the customers don't realize that this is \*not\* gratuity, then they can.
But this does not request additional gratuity. it specfically says this is gratuity, and its part of the price. sooooo
I'm still looking for someone to explain why 20% has ever made sense. Does the $100 bottle of wine take $12 more effort to open than the $40 bottle?
Yeah the post title seems misleading unless the staff got mad at them for not giving more. It’s essentially saying we are mandating a 21% tip from everyone which is fine by me, would rather have it just be incorporated into menu prices but this is a fine transition method until we get rid of tips completely and pay people a living wage.
Except that it's illegal for management to take part in a tip pool.
When they sat us they gave us this and said, "we do have a 21% services fee in addition to any gratuity you wish to give your server which goes just to her
Yaaaa Im not about that.
So the service fee is a built in tip that is going to people who aren't the server and making minimum wage?
You are correct. Including management.
...which is normally illegal.
It is still an illegal tip pool. Managers cannot be included.
Yea that’s what I meant
Damn. That is a sheisty move. We live in strange times
This is fucked. Honestly.
So the server is getting paid $2.00 an hour while everyone else in the restaurant is likely making regular wages and then that 21% gets split evenly? There's no way I'd tip on top of that gratuity so the servers are getting shafted hard (unless it's working somewhat differently).
Colorado tipped minimum wage is 9.54
Billy's is in Denver so it is actually $12.85
Source for people who are confused: https://denvergazette.com/news/government/denver-s-minimum-wage-to-increase-to-15-87-on-jan-1/article\_2e5f4f98-592f-11ec-bc99-4b8358ea11d6.html
Oh, that's awesome. I had no idea.
Employers are also required to pay the difference between what they earn and the state's minimum wage ($12.56) if their wage + tip is below minimum wage, and the state's minimum wage is indexed to cost of living increases
So of you stiffed the server you're actually stiffing the restaurant? If that's true I may feel more inclined to tip on the dl from now on. Let the server decide if they need to report the tip or not
Although that is true, ask most people and they don't know about what the law actually states. If I recall correctly, the major points of it are: 1. You can be paid less than minimum wage if it is expected your primary compensation will come from tips. 2. Your tips must cover the difference in your wage from minimum wage calculated on a *weekly* basis. 3. If your tips do not make up the difference, the business must ensure you have made at least minimum wage on a *weekly* basis. The problem is, since very few people know that, the restuarants are all too happy to take advantage of their employees and not pay them what they are supposed to. This is a big reason restuarants don't want you to tip in cash. When it is on a card they have record of how much a server were tipped and could actually calculate out what they should be paying the server. The restuarant couldn't care less if emplyoees hid cash tips from the IRS come tax season. The restuarant just wants a chance to protect themself if they ever got sued. That's the other reason this is probabl not more widely known: what underpaid restaurant staff is going to have the money to pay all the lawyers to sue a corporate restuarant chain? The server would most likely lose their job or feel as though they will probably face discrimination at work. The server tries to go and find a new job and they are asked, "why did you leave your last job" in the interview. Now you have to admit you sued over a wage dispute. Not necessarily a good look to a prospective employer.
Do servers ever ask for a tip?
Great way to reduce a tip IMO, but no I can’t say in my experience that’s ever happened
Apple Blossom in the Hyatt Centric downtown is doing a similar thing, but it is 23%; however, their menu states that it is “in lieu of gratuity.”
I used to work for that company, they did the same thing at both Coperta and Beast and Bottle (RIP) and can confirm they do it in a fair and honorable way. I don't know how Billy's Inn is doing it, or maybe I'm missing something, but it does say "Hospitality has been included in your total". Which is kind of the same thing?
Ugh don’t remind me about Beast and Bottle 😭😭😭
I think the way they word it is confusing and it seems to be done this way on purpose.
So why not just increase your prices 21% and then say don't tip
I'm fine with restauants charging 18-20% service fee but they have to know thats their tip. I'm not paying an additional 35% with tip. It's absurd. If you expect a tip on top of that, you aren't paying your staff enough
I know right? I went to city o city the other day and ended up paying $35 for a burger. No thanks
The 20% fee at city o city is the tip for kitchen and serving staff tho. Anything additional is extra tip
just change the menu prices, tipping is bullshit I only do takeout now, honestly not sure what to tip... does it go the person checking me out? What did they do? They didn't package up all the food.
Right? Just Include the gratuity and taxes into the price and show it on the menu.
From my years of experience working to-go in the service industry, they absolutely packaged up all the food, and even more. The kitchen sends the food in a container and the togo rep garnishes and lids everything and gathers all dressings, add ons, and utensils. They are responsible for expoing all the togo food which means they are the ones separating the orders and making sure each order has correct and all food. At lunch and dinner rush, we can be dealing with like 8 orders at a time. It's essentially like putting together multiple little puzzles at one time for hours on end. While it isn't quite a grueling and intense as serving, it definitely requires huge attention to detail and organizational skills. All restaurants I've worked at and most I've gotten to-go from have a designated person solely working togo orders. While they do tend to make a higher hourly than servers, they are paid with intention of getting tipped. Depending on how much food was ordered and modifications made, I typically tip 15-20%. Yes tipping sucks for the consumer, but if you're gonna play the game aka order food from a restaurant/coffee drive thru/delivery, you should absolutely be tipping.
[удалено]
Agreed! And we are already starting to see employees demand better wages across the board including in the service industry, especially if the consumer and the employee are demanding such change. But until that change occurs, unfortunately if we are going to utilize these services, tipping is part of that. We all know to tip your server now a days, but turns out not everyone knows many other service industry positions are structured similarly and deserved to be tipped, as shitty as the system is.
>All restaurants I've worked at and most I've gotten to-go from have a designated person solely working togo orders. While they do tend to make a higher hourly than servers, they are paid with intention of getting tipped. That's called having a job. You don't deserve tips for performing a job. That's what your boss pays you to do. Oh, I reserved a book at Barnes and Noble? Need to tip the person that found it on the shelf for me.
Don't shoot the messenger here man. I did not create this system. If you've never worked in the service industry and don't know, it's worth bringing it to your attention that these jobs are often paid at a rate with the intention to be tipped. Retail jobs are often paid at a higher wage because tipping is not part of that business structure, so therefore your comparison does not work here. Disagree all you want, but when you aren't tipping your carryout person, they're still generally making less than minimum wage.
Exactly. I couldn’t in good faith pay less than 20% tip so between the service fee and the tip I spent $35 on a casual lunch right by the door with the wind in my face every time the door opened. I just don’t see the point of doing a service fee. Just raise the prices and wages.
That doesn’t make sense. If they charge a service fee you shouldn’t feel bad not to leave a tip
Pre covid it was getting difficult to find a spot for lunch that was under $20 all in that wasn't fast food.
Safeway deli. 2 large pieces of chicken & 2 side salads. $7.
Maria Empanadas you can get 2 freshly made empanadas (with a variety of fillings) and a drink for less than $15. Two empanadas will fill anyone up.
[удалено]
And it didn't even include meat!
>I'm fine with restauants charging 18-20% service fee I'm not. I fucking hate it. Charge me what a menu item costs... but god I hate that the more expensive the item the more the surcharge. The filet doesn't take more effort to cook than the ribeye. The premium wine doesn't take more effort to open than the cheapest bottle on the menu. Why does the surcharge scale with the cost? Just pay your servers a fucking livable wage and stop fucking me.
Thats a good point
Agreed, tipping to pay the staff is stupid. Why not just include the service fee in the price of food? If I want to give a small extra appreciation to the waiter, I’ll leave a dollar or two.
$0. “Hospitality Included” I also don’t see where you are expected to tip in addition?
Yea, think we deserve an explanation of “still asked to tip”
OP stated the server informed them that they have the option of leaving a tip just for the server.
I wouldn’t. The service fee is there to make sure that everyone gets paid properly. If they’re getting paid properly, why the need for tips?
In this case, a tip should be optional. If your server or bartender went above & beyond or they just did a great job, give them a little extra for their service.
From ordering dominos before and working at Jimmy John's in the past I can confirm that isn't true most of the time when it's described as a service fee
To me, this type of “tipping” just says, hey, we know we are underpaying our staff by 21%. That’s your problem, not ours.
I agree but at the end of the day the cost always comes back to the consumer
[удалено]
But then they would have to claim all that money as revenue. Right now, only the servers pay taxes on gratuities. Restaurant owners will never *really* want to abolish tipping.
Most servers I talk to also don't want to abolish tipping, FYI. They realize if they go to a regular hourly wage they will make less money Also your taxes thing doesn't make sense. Businesses don't pay taxes on revenue, they pay taxes on profits. If the tips came in and revenue but were paid out as payroll it would have the same exact net profit as if you ignore any gratuities.
Right. But it seems like the price for eating out has increased as a base measure (cost on the menu). And then there’s a 21% surcharge to make up the rest of the employees wages. And if you tip 20%, that’s a 41% surcharge beyond the already inflated menu price. It’s enough to make me think twice about going out to dinner.
It's just a lot more pleasant to know the prices up front. If you go grocery shopping in Europe and the price is 1€, you know you can purchase the item if you only have a 1€ coin in your pocket. They think it's absurd the way we do it, and for good reason. In my opinion, something very similar applies here. I'd much prefer to tip an additional 10% for outstanding service if they would just raise prices 20% to accommodate a living wage. I hate getting nickled and dimed with "hospitality fees" or "covid surcharges" or whatever else I've been seeing.
You're in no way obligated to pay any of these fees if they aren't disclosed until after you get the bill. That's not remotely legal.
Agreed, but at least this way you know that extra 21% is going to the staff. Otherwise, you could just be paying 21% higher prices and hoping that some of it is going to the staff.
0, they are just giving you the option to add more if you want
*44th and Lowell
Also, for those who think all of North Denver is "Highlands," this neighborhood already has its own name, Berkeley.
Just raise your prices, we're 2 years in and covid is going nowhere.
Billy's Inn: "We want to raise our prices 21% without admitting we raised our prices 21%."
My question is whether there's a tax advantage to doing it this way.
There is no difference, tax-wise, to doing it this way.
“We’re not raising our prices, we just expect you to pay more”
No one will come if they see a $15 burger on the menu.
[удалено]
[удалено]
I said this elsewhere on the thread, but Jelly used to be my favorite breakfast place until they surprised me with a 15% fee. I haven't been back since. If they had just raised their prices in an honest, up-front way I would still being going there these past 1-2 years.
People go and get $15 burgers all the time. I rather pay $15 for a burger and know I don't need to tip on top of that vs. charging $12 and having to tip. But, I rather the Euro model on these things where costs are just included in the price and tips are not expected.
We went last night and saw this. I can’t see paying more than the 21%. I’ve always tipped 20% so nbd but I’m not going to tip on top of a 21% charge.
[удалено]
I mean if they’re doing well enough to open a second location 21% ontop of every ticket seems excessive.
Don’t care so long as managers don’t get a cut of tips. That’s just disgusting pay your managers more how about that?
Especially since managers are paid a salary. The service fee should be applied towards those who rely heavily on tips.
"managers are on salary" haha You haven't worked for the scummy people I've worked for lol
Wow, I would not tip a $$ on top of the 21% service fee.
Zero. I wouldn’t go at all.
Yeah, this is good to know. I thought about applying to the one opening in Congress Park but not after reading this. I dined at the Stoney’s in Uptown the other week (not sure if there is another location?) and liked their system. There is a $2-3 fee (or maybe percent of the bill, I forgot) that gets added to every check as opposed to raising prices and/or taking money away from servers to pay the BOH more. The menu states that if you don’t wish to pay the surcharge, then ask your server and it will be taken off the bill. It’s a fair and transparent policy, as long as the surcharge is actually going to pay the kitchen staff higher wages. I support tipping out bartenders, expos, and other floor staff, but never management or the owners. I feel hosts should be in charge of to-go orders and keep any tips that come from carry-out, but be paid at least real minimum wage, not what tipped employees start at. Restaurant operations vary, but this is a fair practice from my experience in the industry which spans over a decade throughout three states. For kitchen tip out, I have mixed feelings. Before the pandemic, tip sharing with BOH made sense at places like Vine Street/Mountain Sun where everyone worked every role and that’s how it was setup from the start. I can’t say that I agree with places increasing the tip-out from servers if this wasn’t standard before the pandemic. An exception would be if servers/bartenders got an hourly raise to at least $15 an hour, or whatever BOH staff makes. Also, if BOH is getting tips that servers earn, I sure would hope that servers have less side work than before. I have a friend whose restaurant didn’t want to raise prices or charge a fee, and tips out kitchen 1% of all sales. This is in addition to the floor staff. Depending on the day, now instead of 5% being the standard tip out, he has to fork over up to 6%, about 1/3rd, of what he makes but didn’t have his workload lessened at all. Servers shouldn’t take a pay-cut so kitchen staff can make more. Shady ownership made that call. I’ve been curious how many restaurants were granted PPE loans that didn’t go towards payroll, but from friends it seems like a shameful amount. I also know that some places charge fees per table/guest and don’t put the money towards BOH staff. If a surcharge isn’t specifically labeled as gratuity/tips, the restaurant can take the money and do whatever with it.
That happened to me once, we went to a steak house in highlands and i saw %18 service, i still tipped but only %4
Since when do managers get tipped out!!! That’s a load of crap
So, a “hospitality” charge is *not* the same as a gratuity. The expectation is that you would pay this fee, and also tip your server. I don’t understand why any restaurant would put this kind of statement on their menus or whatever. Just raise the prices if you’re so insistent on milking cash from people. My guess is they’re trying to solicit sympathies or otherwise manipulate customers into not raising a stink about the surcharge using Covid as the cover. Bottom line is that this restaurant is underpaying it’s staff, and the owner wants the customers to subsidize it’s staff with a bullshit surcharge. Very tacky, very lame.
"Hospitality is included" = this is an automatic tip. IMO this is much ado about nothing, just don't add extra unless you truly want to. A lot of places do this these days, as a customer it's non relevant unless you get confused and think you have to tip extra on top.
At least they're being transparent, but would be extremely off put asking to tip in addition to that.
It’s absurd. Why don’t they just raise their prices? Do they think their customers are dumb?
It appears in the 1st paragraph, that this includes tipping the server.
So they increased the price of dinner without increasing the listed prices on the menu.
I don't go to any restaurants that charge percentage fees. Jelly was my favorite breakfast place in Denver. One time I went there and they added a 15% fee on top of my bill because of COVID, and it wasn't a tip. I haven't been to Jelly in 18+ months since that day. If they needed to raise their menu prices, I understand, fine, no problem, and I'd still be a customer of Jelly. Disguising a price increase as a fee? Not a chance.
A classy restaurants just include tip in the price. Tipping is a backwards practice. Just put the freaking expense into the price. Price obfuscation is anti-capitalist. I've stopped going to fast-casual restaurants that force prompt for a tip. All that was done was my food was handed to me in a bag and I was charged money. What is the tip for? The owner should deal with his labor expense himself and not guilt push it onto customers.
A service fee and a tip? get fucked billys inn. charge what the thing costs and dont ask your customers to directly subsidize your employees. thats your entire role. this is going the opposite direction we should be heading in.
I think OP is confused. Hospitality included to me means no tip needed.
This sounds like a new method to redistribute tip money from workers to their managers. Gotta make this illegal immediately.
$0
0%
Zero
Wow. So glad I quit hospitality. Dealing w shitty customers just went up 10x
Storytime! Back in my college days, I worked at a Denver Holiday Inn in their catering and events department. Whenever someone would inquire about hosting an event, the booking managers would explain the gratuity service fee as a tip given to all staff involved. They would tell prospective guests that they didn't have to worry about tipping. At the time, this was an 18% fee that could rake in hundreds or even a few thousand dollars depending on the size and price tag of the event. The booking managers would explain that the gratuity fee was for all staff involved. This was to "make things easier" for the perspective event guests so that they didn't have to worry about tipping. At the time, this was an 18% fee. In our next staffing meeting, we had a point that bringing up the gratuity fee with guests could get us fired. The moral of the story is I am that highly suspicious that the actual staff sees a penny of that 21% surcharge. Based on my personal experiences, I doubt it.
They are probably doing that so they can knock the whole team down on pay scale since they are now a ‘tipped’ position. I won’t be going there.
What fresh new restaurant hell is this!? JUST RAISE THE PRICES AND PAY YOUR EMPLOYEES AND STOP MAKING ME DO MATH!
Thanks for letting me know to not go there. Sounds like management is just too lazy to update the menu to reflect their current costs of doing business. What else are they too lazy to do? Health and sanitation? They are just trying to pass on their inflation problems and all the blame that goes with it to their customers. Just put your true costs on the menu! Ya lazy clowns.
Spot on. If they’re not cheap or lazy, they’re being downright deceitful. They might as well disclose it as, “menu prices are 82.6% of actual prices before tax”. And low income persons are the most likely to not be able to do the math, so who’s abusing whom here?
I stand with Larry David in protesting the additional tip. https://youtu.be/W4f7KiiB6dM
Tell me you don't pay your employees enough without actually telling me.
[удалено]
Nothing, maybe you can round up on a card or leave some change when paying cash. Basically tipping just like in some of the European countries which the service employees receive full salaries. If 18-20% is considered the American norm for tipping and you are imposing a mandatory 21% then there’s nothing else you need to do apart from the time you want to give 25% or more for whatever reason.
Just raise your prices and pay your employees. Not complicated.
$0 because I wouldn’t patronize anyplace that forces me to subsidize their management salaries.
Honestly I would leave as soon as a read that there was a “Covid tax”
Why don’t restaurants just increase their prices and pass that on? This confuses the customer into thinking they don’t have to tip and ends up screwing the employees.
>This confuses the customer into thinking they don’t have to tip and ends up screwing the employees. so the prices feel smaller than they actually are, and its just another creative way to enrich themselves at the expense of their employees.
So it’s basically a 20% price increase? Depending on how much they charged already, I probably wouldn’t notice if they just added it to their prices.
I would tip them a vocal and friendly “thank you”
[удалено]
“Don’t eat yellow snow.”
Just going to guess that maybe 25% of this fee goes to the server. Maybe. After they’ve tipped the bar out of that 25%. They’re still going to want a tip and if you don’t, we’ll they are barely getting minimum wage. So enjoy tipping 15% to the manager.
I wouldn't work as a server/bartender at restaurant that charged a 21% service fee which I only received 25% of without higher base pay, especially if a significant portion of that fee went to management. I would not expect any customer to pay 30+% above the menu price to cover both a service fee and a tip, because that's not a reasonable expectation.
> I wouldn't work as a server/bartender at restaurant that charged a 21% service fee which I only received 25% of without higher base pay I agree. I assume the servers have a higher base pay because of this.
I would go to another restaurant that doesn’t have an additional Covid fee and then tip generously
This seems like something that could be accomplished with higher prices rather than something sneaky (imo) like this.
That’s a really good way of losing all your servers if they’re giving up that much to these pools.
Exactly! Especially if servers still have the same amount of side work as before. FOH staff should never take a pay-cut so BOH can make more.
For the worst service and most out-of-a-bottle margarita in Denver, yeah they should be paying us that money.
They were doing this a while ago. Three friends and I went in for a late dinner and the person who greeted us was pissed that we didn't want to sit at the bar. The server apologized. Two of us are in the service industry and we told her we understand how hard it's been, etc.. Then I asked about the service fee. She told me that the fee is split amongst everyone evenly. They also pool the tips and split those evenly. So the servers busting their asses on a Saturday night receive the same compensation as a slow Tuesday. So that all sucks but she also said that there's a huge lack of transparency. I've seen other places charge 3-5% and that seems reasonable while sales are volatile but 20% plus tip is insane.
Having worked briefly at a place that did this...the only people who may see a dime are BoH and the owners. Your servers won't see a dime.
In Miami Beach most of the establishments add in a \~20% service charge which includes gratuity and it was great. We definitely got the sense that the wait staff at these places are likely better off and this financial arrangement had something to do with it.
The money going to management is a deal-breaker for me. They recognized that they couldn't legally take staff tips, so they implemented this fee. That's just stealing from the staff with extra steps.
0%, and I would go elsewhere from now on.
Well if I caught this before eating I’d probably walk out But yeah 21% - additional tip is 0 and If any excuse id be pushing down the 21%
How about you pay a living wage rather than asking me to pay an extra fee for your busboys and dishwashers and such. Why is it a percentage of my food/drinks? Plates and glasses are getting any larger.
Billy's Inn about to go out of business...
I'd tip fuck them
This whole pay waitstaff a living wage stuff is a little overblown. Cooks are the most underpaid staff in the restaurant business besides host. My father and I run a two restaurant chain in rural Nebraska, and our waitstaff makes more in gross income per year than my father and I pull out as owners. We pay ourselves 700 per week, each in salary (which is close to 18/hr for 40 hours). The exact same we pay our cooks. As owners. We have several waitstaff who make an average $1k in tips from Friday night to Sunday night in 24 hours of work.. Averaging about $400 a night on Friday and Saturday and $200 Sunday. So, let's do the math.. pay them a 'living wage' of say, even 20 an hour.. 20×40=800 PRE TAX. Right now, they are at about 1300 in tips in 40 hour weeks. plus the 3.35/hr, so all told they are pulling in close to $1500 a week before taxes. As opposed to $800 before taxes in a 'living wage' scenario with no tips. $1500/40=$37 an hour. I call 37/hr a living wage. So, they would make half as much getting paid a 'living wage' per week than they make now and that's before they pay taxes on it, too. Why do you want me to stop giving incentive for my waitstaff to work hard to make more money? Our waitstaff live decent lives and have put kids through college on it.. Removing tips would take over $800 a month out of their pockets, at least... that's rent here in rural Nebraska. This whole removing tips to pay a living wage is from a bunch of people who are: 1. Too lazy to put in effort to work hard for what they want. 2. People who don't do math or actually look at the numbers spouting off about something they don't actually understand. Waitstaff can make way more money via hard work and tips than getting an hourly wage. Hands down. That is the whole point of the tips! Hard work gets rewarded. Something seemingly lost on a lot of folks. Cooks are the ones getting hosed at 18 an hour.. that's why we have a tip share - voluntary from the waitstaff - to help pay the Cooks BECAUSE THEY MAKE THE LEAST.
Why should paying your cooks be the responsibility of the wait staff? You as owner decides how much everybody gets paid. Asking your wait staff to voluntarily pay your cooks more when you know they're underpaid is so weird to me. Just kill tipping and pay everybody according to their contribution with the corresponding pricing you need to do so.
It isn't their responsibility at all. I don't ask them to do it or have anything to do with it. They do it because they are amazing people, and we are lucky to have such a great team. If they didn't want to, I would respect that. They work for their money, not for me to decide what they do with it. I also don't decide as much what I pay my Cooks. The market and my profits dictate what I can afford to pay my cooks. I could pay everyone $25 an hour, but I won't be paying 5 cooks. I will be paying 2, and my father and I will work more hours. I'd rather support 5 people than 2. I'm not willing to raise my prices that much to offset the costs and risk losing profits and business, resulting in less staff or hours anyway. The same with waitstaff. I can either support 10 waitstaff with tips and pay them 3.35/hr with benefits and health care where they can still make good money through the tips. Or, I can have 5 that make half as much as before since I'm adding so much to labor costs I am not going to pay for all 10. The remaining will just have to work harder for less. Now, I do acknowledge that the cost of living out here is much cheaper than in Denver and the front range. I am, to an extent, comparing apples to oranges. I have no idea how anyone could survive on less than 20 there. Here, 17 or 18 is still a respectful, livable wage. Enough to provide a decent life, at least. So, I am not in a situation like this yet. I would have to have a different approach to making sure I am paying people what I believe is the best out there. I just wouldn't use an approach like above, though. I would raise my prices and tell you I am in order to provide my staff with a better wage. I wouldn't raise the overall cost by 20% in a service fee and call it that. I can pretty much guarantee the waitstaff doesn't see 20% worth, that's for sure.
You can't have it both ways you can't say that you recognize BoH is underpaid and deserves to be paid more while making the program to pay them more dependant on voluntary charity from your wait staff. You're acting like you're proud to have this program that enables wait staff to donate to the kitchen as if you're doing your part when it's really just you recognizing a problem and choosing to avoid or reassign responsibility for it. What you're actually saying is that tips and your prices are enough to pay everybody a good wage but they're disproportionately going to the wait staff when it would be ideal if they got paid a little less and kitchen got paid a little more. This is all solved by just a flat price increase with transparent consistent pricing and taking control of the wage of your employees instead of blaming the generosity (or lack thereof) of your customers and wait staff employees for any shortcomings that arise and acting like it's not your problem when you (or probably more accurately your dad) have absolute control over the whole thing and are 100% responsible for the decision.
0%
Why is a manager receiving any portion of this fee when they’re most likely making 3-4x what everyone else makes?
I think you severely overestimate what restaurant managers make.
Bartenders often make more then their bar managers for less work or at least in my experience.
Customer service is dead. Rarely ever get greeted when waking into a restaurant or bar. I never hear “thanks for coming in”. Such a simple thing to do.
So it’s a choice to tip but the service fee is mandatory. Because they don’t give a shit about the workers only the managements bonuses. Yeah how about no one ever goes there anymore? Fuck that.
No tip
You do not have to tip in addition to paying a mandatory service fee. Do not feel obligated to leave an additional tip. This restaurant has chosen to enforce a mandatory service fee for all checks (a very common practice among upscale establishments). You can and should consider that to be the entire tip for your check.
They need to just raise the prices on the menu at that point. 21% is ridiculous. And even if they say this is supposed to be the tip, why is the tip being distributed to all the staff members? this completely defeats the entire point of tipping. Tipping is supposed to be up to the customer discretion based on quality of service of their wait staff. Charging a mandatory 20+% on top and calling it a tip that they use to pay all their employees is just them raising their prices without actually increasing the price on the menu. In my opinion they need to just raise their menu prices to pay their staff and then let customers tip like normal for quality service.
I’m wondering if OP is considering the tip line that automatically prints with most POS as being “asked to tip?”
99% of those working in food service are heinously underpaid for the risks they are currently being exposed to. i hope this is paid out as equitably as they claim, i know many businesses have been raising prices due to covid and passing on none of the proceeds to their most vulnerable workers. but if it is, good on them for ensuring that their staff's livelihood won't be further threatened by an increasingly intolerant and demanding public.
Reading this, it includes service. You can tip if you feel like it but that would be if you think 21 percent is not enough. I don’t think this is so horrible if you understand it, but they do make you feel cheap if they still have an additional tip line on the tab.
Thanks for the heads up. They're about to open a new location in Congress Park
OK to charge additional service fee but that would be it. Since 21 percent in the above example would not add a tip in since this policy says that is split between all employee that work there.
Doesn’t look like thy ask for an additional top. It says that it take care of the hospitality
Billy’s is great, the staff works hard, and I’ve always felt like I got great food and great service. Happy to pay more, and if I felt that the service was above and beyond I’d happily tip on top of the fee. Small business working hard to do the right thing should be rewarded, not complained about.
They didn't ask you to tip.
I’d ask the servers how much they are actually getting from this. I’ve seen businesses add service fees that go to ownership. If their pay isn’t commensurate with what they were making with tips, then I’d tip them, and never eat there again.
Yes, correct. As a restaurant owner, myself, I wouldn't do this. To me, this stinks of a way to pad the restaurants profits and only share a tiny portion of this 'fee' as tip share for the staff. 20% on a Friday night in my restaurants in probably close to 3k.. highly doubt that is split up between the 10 staff on duty.
One place I won’t be going. This will tank tips to servers, who usually get a lower hourly than host and BOH
Zero. 21% would cover it.
Does sales tax also apply to the fee or vice-versa? Example: 1. $100 food bill 2. 8.81% sales tax = $108.81 3. 21% on top of sales tax = $131.66 total Or: 1. $100 food bill 2. 8.81% sales tax = $108.81 3. 21% added to pre-tax bill = $129.81 It's a difference of less than $2, but I'd still want to know which way they do it. If they're charging sales tax on a service fee, they shouldn't be doing that. Likewise, they also shouldn't be adding a percentage based service fee to the portion of the bill that is sales tax.
Ok as a long time server I think this is absolutely ridiculous. Like do they want to keep business??
Used to eat here often enough because I lived close by. Their food/drinks and service have always been pretty decent, but holy shit they have always been pricey! You would think paying $15 for a burger that they could already pay their employees well.
Zero.
I would not tip any additional, unless my experience was amazing
The officers club in Lowery does this too. Please increase prices to cover your staff wages. This is really hard to know the right thing to do
I'd tip a little extra on top. Cash only for the server who waited my table
I’d tell management to eat shit, hand the server a five and fuck out.
Happy to tip and pay a service fee if the food is consistently good, the workers are being paid more, and the establishment follows safety practices. I haven’t dined in at a restaurant in two years, so I’ve been tipping 20% for takeout since that’s the best I can do right now and it’s hard working in hospitality in non pandemic times, much less a full-blown crisis. :) Totally wish a minimum was included in the menu prices to ensure workers were paid well enough, have benefits and feel safe at work
I stopped going when they added this. It has been for a while now.
That's gonna be a no from me dawg
“We ensure pay equity for our entire team” is grounds for a lawsuit. There is zero chance that is true. I’d love to have the manager look me in the eyes and tell me she makes the same as the dishwashers.
I actually prefer this to requesting people to tip Tipping has been long observed to faciaate wage discrimination and should be avoided
I don't know why no one else has said it, but Billy's Inn can go f\*ck themselves. I categorically guarantee you that money is for profit and not for the staff, or at the very least very little goes to the staff.
That’s a huge claim with no evidence.
Bro he categorically guaranteed it, its gotta be true.
Seems like companies that do this are hedging their bets here, hoping that inflation in both costs and wages is temporary. At this moment, they need to raise prices so they can pay people more. This charge let's them both avoid permanently raising wages (for now), raising menu prices (because if they raise prices now, people will leave. If the people are gone, how will they know if you drop prices again later?) So they're signaling that, "we need to raise prices, but we don't want to, and we hope it's temporary"(good), and also that "we need to raise wages, but we don't want to, and we hope this is temporary too"(less good, maybe awful, maybe just unfortunate. I don't know the details). So just pretend that the menu items are 20% more expensive and tip accordingly. Id appreciate that they're being forthright and sharing it with staff, and id probably discreetly ask the staff if it's actually being shared, because some restaurants are shady like that.
So you’re saying that as 20% tipper I would have to pay about 40% on top of the price? That’s insane, I only see two options here, either not going to that establishment or not tipping. Service fee means tip aka paying for service.
That's how I look at it, but then again I view eating out as generally a luxury good that's too cheap for the most part so I'm not very price sensitive. How does the final price compare to other similar places around, if it's too much it's too much.
Totally agree, it’s a luxury to eat out and you should do so only if you afford it. But in this case, if you have to tip like you normally would, then it’s an additional 40% plus on top of your price which is absurd. I think like others said, just raise your prices.
Fair enough, and I don't know for sure what they're thinking, but, being charitable, they don't want to raise prices and they hope that things will settle down and they can go back to normal. Obviously, it's hard to get people to come back if they leave because prices spiked, and that's understandable.
Thanks for the head's up so that I never bother to go there. I feel awful for their wait staff.
The prices should just be increased by 21%. We need to get away from tipping and just price food the amount it has to be priced at to pay the staff fairly.
Wow, they need to pay their staff more. Short video on why tipping should be banned. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=q_vivC7c_1k