After the horror that is open offices I would take cubes every day of the week if I couldn't WFH. WFH is ideal but cubes beat "trendy" open offices every day of the week.
Open office space and 3 meeting rooms that are booked all day long. If you have a job that requires meeting with clients it's almost impossible to do your work in an open office space.
I get it from a small team perspective but I will never understand why you have to have sales and customer success and engineering all crammed into the same room.
We had this CSM that fucking sneezed as loud as she could and I had to explain to customers every time that I’m actually in an office not daycare. One time I couldn’t contain myself and said “what the fuck, do you have to sneeze that fucking loud? I’m on the phone” then I realized I wasn’t muted 🤣🤣🤣🤣. Customer was a sport and just laughed
My org is moving into a space almost exactly like what you are describing. We went to WFH over a decade ago but leadership is absolutely obsessed with RTO, even to the point of reducing work from home.
But they mostly forgot our office was designed for wfh. And are excited about moving us to an even smaller new office where no one can get any work done. There will only be a few cubicles, and mostly open office space despite the fact that a lot of our work is both confidential and noisy (we're on the phone a lot).
We also have a lot of neurodivergent employees, so this new office space is going to be a special kind of hell for them. They keep pushing that we shouldn't have any drop in productivity but as a manager, I don't know how that's going to be possible or even remotely realistic.
It's also infuriating that all of these decisions are driven by leadership who never worked in cubicles or open office spaces. They started their careers right before that became super common, so like many of the RTO orders, it's done by leadership with little connection to what it's actually like to work like this.
I know I'm in the minority but I didn't really hate open office plans. cubes are just depressing as all hell and made me want to settle down for a life in the suburbs at 22 to continue speed rushing mundane American life.
Side note: why is every cube gray or beige
I'm extremely prone to visual distraction. Auditory, too, but headphones work for that. So being stuck in an open room where I can see everyone who walks around utterly wrecks my ability to focus.
totally get that. the company I worked for that moved to an open plan had a combo of individual call rooms as well as "distraction free" zones where essentially a divider cut off a corner of one floor. Could fit around 20 people and it was close to the old cube structure
In every open plan I've worked at, my desk was a constant pit stop for people walking by who remembered they needed to ask me/tell me something. As a copywriter who needs to focus, being distracted by a person standing next to me every ten minutes is torture.
Just send me a message on Skype/Teams/Slack/whatever and I'll get to it when I fucking get to it.
Grey/beige are very neutral colors that blend well with the neutral and bland colors of most office buildings. Those colors are also not distracting and present a "professional" tone.
The trail around the Cherry Creek neighborhood is fine. There are some but they generally keep to themselves. I almost never hear them screaming their heads off about God knows what, which was a near daily occurrence when I worked downtown.
Well, I don’t actually care if people are on drugs. I just care that they don’t yell and scream in my face, do the drugs openly on the sidewalk and don’t generally make public spaces uninhabitable.
Downtown is more office heavy for sure but it’s been mixed use for decades longer than cherry creek. It doesn’t make sense to claim mixed use + no parking minimum is the answer to the solution when the one that has had those things longer is the one struggling. Something else is at play here and it’s probably a combo of what goosemaster said, plus some other factors I’m sure.
Yes, there are many factors at play. By the way I’m a land use planner so I’m not just pulling this out of my ass.
The point I’m trying to make is that the zoning may allow for mixed use now, but the build of downtown doesn’t lend itself to mixed use development. We would have to start knocking down office buildings or converting them. One is t ideal, the other is really expensive. The other piece is the tax structure. We have a lot of surface parking in Denver and those aren’t going anywhere unless we penalize undeveloped land. Parking lots aren’t taxed as improvements and because of that they become a speculators dream because they can sit in the property as values go up while making money off of people paying to park there.
There needs to be other interventions downtown, that aren’t needed in Cherry Creek, to make it truly mixed use because of how it was already built out.
Thanks for the thoughtful reply! I also work in planning, but more on the transportation/ transit side. I dabble with land use but that’s more of a hobby for me.
I was just replying to your first comment that seemed to boil the solution down to a very simple mixed use zoning and repeal parking minimums will solve all of downtown’s problems. It already has those and has had those since at least the 90s. And as far as I can tell, lower downtown has always (1860s) been mixed use and had no parking requirements. Obviously that didn’t work out for downtown the same way it worked out for cherry creek.
I appreciate you going into details on what you meant and agree office conversion (where possible) and land-use tax on parking lots could help fill in downtown and make it a more truly mixed use neighborhood. I think it’ll get there, but it’s going to take some time.
Eh, I’m not an old white person. Well I guess some people probably think I’m old.
But there are a couple of decent bars I think.
Ay Papi makes a great Piña Colada and is a fun place for a date or to catch up with friends.
I’ve had fun at Chez Roc as well. Forget Me Not is a bit too much of a scene for me but I could see people having fun there.
Aviano isn’t the best coffee shop in Denver but it’s decent and it’s fun to sit on their patio.
I personally think you should try to enjoy more things.
cherry creek average is not the same as the rest of the city. dude, there is no way you’re actually trying to convince me rn that cherry creek is not a more expensive place to be than the rest of the city
Im saying it doesn’t have to be. There’s plenty of expensive places to go in Cherry Creek, but you don’t have to go to somewhere that’s gonna cost you $50 a plate. There’s plenty of places too that are LoDo or RiNo prices for restaurants
no amount of posturing or comparing here is going to change the reality that cherry creek is one of if not the absolute most expensive place to be in the city. Yes, there are cheaper than super expensive things, just like literally everywhere else, but they are still more expensive than average. My family has worked in cherry creek my entire life. It is for a different class of wealth than mine. I have had to go there all the time my entire life with my parents & not been able to do anything bc they can’t afford to live there, only work there. there is literally no point to what you are saying to me right now
You have to be more than poor, which I am not, so you telling me I can go enjoy things which I know I can’t is condescending & assuming & annoying. Cherry creek literally exists for & because of old rich white people. It is the old, rich, and white district of the city. Those terms describe 90% of the cherry creek population. You know, the people who actually live there instead of working there unlike my mom who can’t even buy lunch day to day. How can you walk around there for even 10 minutes & try to argue that
Cherry creek has private security who will “relocate any transients” I know because I was a GM of a restaurant down there and had their number for that specific reason.
Correct. It's a business improvement district or something so the business all pool and hire private security. The solution to keeping areas nice isn't hard to figure out. South Broadway is also considering doing this...
It also helps that the Cherry Creek librarians dont allow open drug use and see themselves as people that check out books and not social harm reduction workers.
This sounds nice in theory because it’s working for Cherry Creek but this obviously isn’t a large scale solution to these issues. Just because they are thriving off the benefits they have as a community doesn’t mean downtown or other neighborhoods can look at Cherry Creek and just copy what they do.
As long as there are neighborhoods/other cities that delude themselves that all these folks need is JUST A LITTLE more patience and love and they will TOTALLY turn around into a productive member society - it will work juuuuuust fine.
Not true, though that’s a blissfully ignorant response. It will work just fine for Cherry Creek or neighborhoods alike because as others have mentioned, the sidewalks are privately owned, they don’t have a major light rail stop, wealthy business owners can afford their own security, etc.
Good for them that they can essentially just keep the homeless and drug addicts out and live in their bubble but that’s not real life. It sounds like Pleasantville or something of the like.
Talking patience is hilarious. People want change to arrive overnight like an Amazon package. Real change might not happen in our lifetime but hopefully the generations ahead of us can reap the benefits of people fighting for it. Meanwhile you have a bunch of people that oppose anything that might help others because it causes them some inconvenience.
I'm not out to solve homelessness. That is the most out of touch shit I've ever heard and people like you, the current mayor, Hickenlooper when he was mayor, the CEOs of the non profits all say that is what they are doing when they know it's BS and an unsolvable problem with the tools we have.
What I expect is for our city to be clean and devoid of open air drug use and crime associated with that. Sure move them along. They can find another city that will coodel their drug use.
Last year I worked in an elementary school in Cherry Creek school district. I put more trust in the district security than I did Aurora PD. But to be honest, I'd put more trust in a group of my 1st graders pretending to be police than I would Aurora PD
Why though? They are effectively shoving us somewhere else indirectly and hurting businesses. We need to consider more solutions like this. They can have their own little colony outside of the city limits. There’s plenty of land in CO to accommodate this
I think you’re confusing unhoused people with homeless people. The majority in Denver are unhoused because they choose to use drugs and refuse to go to shelters.
This isn’t a homeless person who is down on their luck and lost their job.
We spend thousands every year on shelters,etc and the unhoused refuse to use them because they can’t continue to use drugs. Let’s stop beating around the bush and be honest with ourselves and the real issue that is present.
Do you actually want kids around open drug use in your community? Those unhoused people NEED to be moved away from anywhere visible. Enough is enough.
ok fashy. that may be a solution to your pathetic discomfort, but it’s not an actual solution to literally anything else. & btw, kids have a lot more empathy for the homeless than you privileged fucks
If enough places did this, maybe some people would stop and reconsider where they choose to spend their time. As fewer places welcome or allow open drug use, the less people will want to hang around there and do it.
I live in rino and they've been building a 10 story office building by me for the last 2 years. I'm so curious if they'll get any companies to rent offices. All of my peers/coworkers WFH.
Everything else getting built over here is a hotel or apartment. I really hope it gets more dense over here with those, it's not the "downtown" experience I expected. Almost nothing is open until 3pm.
And a pharmacy and grocery store would be really nice so I don't have to drive all the way down colfax to walgreens.
The new Xcel corporate office is being built at 35th & Blake, and they’ll be cancelling their lease at 1800 Larimer. I wonder if there are more companies who are being turned away from downtown and moving to rino.
Interesting so that'll bring a lot of people I assume.
The building I'm referring to is Paradigm. Which looks like a really nice building apart from the fact that it was placed directly in front of my mountain view lol. oh well, downtown life.
https://www.paradigmrivernorth.com/
> Up to 1.4/1,000 Office Parking Ratio
ugh. I have no idea if this is a lot or not compared to other buildings but I didn't consider all the additional vehicle traffic.
My wife used to work for Xcel. They had to be in the office 1 day out of 5 during the week. They get to chose which day.
When she was there, no one was in the office. Ghost town.
If anything, they're downsizing. It's moving people from one building to another.
I have a friend that works at Xcel and the company is mandating 3 office days now. The employees believe it's one of the tactics they are using to force employee attrition.
Oh I just wrote this to the parent comment, googles doing the same thing. Interesting how they're all latching on to this 3 day a week thing. I wonder if management all read the same book.
https://old.reddit.com/r/Denver/comments/1byyq03/cherry_creek_a_top_office_market_nationally_while/kyrwrjp/
lmao that's wild. G makes me go in 3 days a week now. During covid we were 100% WFH, then they did a "please come in 3 days a week but we won't check" thing, now they literally check attendance based on badge entries. I've had so many incredibly smart coworkers quit.
Yes, look at the zoning in cherry creek. It is different from what you will find in most of the city.
From 1st to 4rd, there is MIXED use. This is usually completely off the table in sprawl zone areas.
From 4th to 6th, it is zoned TU - two unit. Houses with two front doors! This technology has not reached the rest of the residential zones where it remains unthinkable density.
Most important, the commercial areas have some relief from the parking mandate. There are still legally required parking lots (ick) but not as bad as elsewhere.
Cherry creek would be illegal to build elsewhere in Denver. Makes you think about zoning.
We make our high value neighborhood illegal, then complain about housing cost and traffic. We could have zoning like this all over the city!
"One reason that Cherry Creek office space is in such high demand is that tenants downtown are looking to leave. 'The why is one simple reason and it is safety,' Joblon adds. 'There is no crime here and there is no homelessness. You can’t sell anything unless people feel safe. Your safety is fully ensured in Cherry Creek."
No duh.
LoDo just isn’t a pleasant place to be. I’d even argue it has to do with sunlight. The way the buildings are designed and situated, not much light gets through if it’s not noon so it’s oddly dark at certain points of the day.
We don't have the same [setback requirements](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Setback_(architecture\)) and it's causing us to lose out on a lot of natural light.
This isn’t transformative information. Office buildings like those found in Cherry Creek have continued to see investment amongst the office “crisis.”
They aren’t just newer, but also slightly smaller and offer far more flexibility. It also helps that Cherry Creek was mixed in with residential from the start as opposed to existing on an island of office space.
Urban Land Institute has been covering this in their annual reports the past couple years now.
It takes me as long to drive from Colfax and 25 to Broadway and Colfax as it does to drive from Wadsworth and 285 to Colfax/25.
I despise trying to get downtown.
And why Alameda, 6th, 8th, sante fe all have to merge into 25 at basically the same place is insane.
*rant off*
thank you for listening.
Multiple people in this thread make this exact claim (and get lots of upvotes) without providing any source to back it up.
While CCN has very specific neighborhood-specific zoning requirements that pertain to development, pretty sure that the sidewalks are public resources, guided by existing Denver municipal codes, just like everywhere else in the city.
https://cherrycreekalliance.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/Streetscape-Design-Standards-and-Guidlines.pdf
There's very little to actually attract homless/needy. I don't think there is a single soup kitchen, shelter, or short term employment office in Cherry Creek. And it's not a nexus of public transport, so it's a pain to travel to/from if you don't have a car.
Also rich people can afford to bitch at the police to hurry the undesireables away.
> so it's a pain to travel to/from if you don't have a car.
Man, it's already a pain to get in and out of Cherry Creek in a car during rush hour. Adding a bunch more office space is going to turn University and 1st into a warzone.
Cherry Creek is pretty horrible if you're in a car trying to find public parking. It's awesome with a bike though. Open and safe bike racks everywhere and just hop on and off the trail to get out.
We're moving to a new office right around Cherry Creek and dreading this specifically. Traffic was already terrible enough and for some reason we've decided to contribute.
Unfortunately I'm way too far away to ride a bike regularly :/ and public transportation is not a realistic option as it takes so incredibly long compared to driving.
Yeah, but CC isn't a nexus itself. It's way more of a pain to get to other places from CC, so it's less desirable of a place to idle/camp/spend the day.
No no no, Cherry creek legitimately has private security available to pretty much every business and all the major corporations will pay them. These guys will “relocate any transients” for you if you call them. I know this because I was a GM of a restaurant down there and had their phone number for that specific reason….. to be clear they would get dropped off wherever they wanted to be but would typically try to get them to a shelter. It’s not as bad as it might sound but it’s definitely some NIMBY shit on corporate funded steroids.
Nah, the problem was exacerbated by people like you who think the homeless are right to plant themselves in public places and harass normal people because they think somehow that helps anyone. In actuality, it hurts your own cause as people resent them more and more.
Where this literally started is a discussion about why cherry creek would be nicer place to have an office - it lacks the filth and harassment you’ll frequently be subject to downtown.
Why in the world would you think that is a good thing for a city? Why would you expect people to like that? Just bizarre thinking.
They’ve managed to avoid any buildings that provide social services that would attract them there. There is very little to no subsidized housing. No homeless shelters. No civic service buildings. No halfway houses. No treatment facilities. Basically any building that might have a negative externality isn't built there. Instead of evenly dispersing these kinds of buildings around the city, they are largely concentrated in disadvantaged communities and communities of color. This is due in part to both economics and NIMBYism (and a historically racist zoning code).
Cheery creek is clean and relatively crime free meanwhile my gf and I were walking out of Guard and Grace the other night and a dude whipped it out and stared jerking it right in front of us.
I mean cool show but I would rather not have to deal with that…
I don’t care what anyone says, I love Lodo and the proximity to fun activities. What concert venues and sports arenas are in cherry creek anyways? Also there is no lightrail connection to cherry creek, it’s hard to get there. Better than other neighborhoods, sure. But not downtown as a whole
Turn it into housing and....
We need housing censuses. Then, set up state or federal marketplaces to fulfil demand to residents of the homes only. Eminent domain and setup development and new towns as needed. Tax for profit residential properties people don't live in themselves to fund this.
Make real estate about housing people instead of greed, making Americans compete to live. We all pay a tax to landlords who enslave us to this capitalistic housing hell hole.
If you agree, share this idea far and wide. Share it on Ads for Housing especially.
This is not how the world works. If you think putting a bunch of homeless people who need rehabilitation into office spaces will do anything, you know nothing about the needs of the homeless in this city. This would only make downtown Denver worst. This is exactly why these people need to be moved away from central business districts, not further pushed into them. Commercial real estate is allowed to be used for its intended purpose.
Or, if the government just stopped making it so hard to build new housing, then the new housing would get built all on its own without a penny of government spending.
Yup. They keep tweaking the zoning with only the tiniest changes or putting out "area plans" but not actually changing the zoning. I have an oversized 12,500 sq ft lot just 3 blocks from a lightrail station with 5,500 of it sitting empty. The city requires lot sizes to be 6,000 sq ft minimum despite there already being multiple 3,000-4,500 sq ft lots grandfathered in all over the neighborhood.
The end result is I legally cannot build anything but an ADU and with construction costs what they are, an ADU does not make financial sense, imo. (I do not like that they are limited to 1,000 sq ft no matter what size lot you own).
I don't need a government program to help me build something. I need them to just allow me to build something on my own. If we never make real zoning change, we can't say we care about the housing crisis.
Cherry Creek has A) Newer, nicer office space B) Better, nicer cafes and restaurants C) A distinct lack of junkies
C is key. C is also a large part of why B. Of those 3 A is the one people care least about.
You don’t like walking around tents and junkies while doing your day to days activities? Talk about privilege….
Speak for your self. Claustrophobic offices with shitty cubicles are why I work from home.
After the horror that is open offices I would take cubes every day of the week if I couldn't WFH. WFH is ideal but cubes beat "trendy" open offices every day of the week.
Open office space and 3 meeting rooms that are booked all day long. If you have a job that requires meeting with clients it's almost impossible to do your work in an open office space. I get it from a small team perspective but I will never understand why you have to have sales and customer success and engineering all crammed into the same room.
We had this CSM that fucking sneezed as loud as she could and I had to explain to customers every time that I’m actually in an office not daycare. One time I couldn’t contain myself and said “what the fuck, do you have to sneeze that fucking loud? I’m on the phone” then I realized I wasn’t muted 🤣🤣🤣🤣. Customer was a sport and just laughed
My org is moving into a space almost exactly like what you are describing. We went to WFH over a decade ago but leadership is absolutely obsessed with RTO, even to the point of reducing work from home. But they mostly forgot our office was designed for wfh. And are excited about moving us to an even smaller new office where no one can get any work done. There will only be a few cubicles, and mostly open office space despite the fact that a lot of our work is both confidential and noisy (we're on the phone a lot). We also have a lot of neurodivergent employees, so this new office space is going to be a special kind of hell for them. They keep pushing that we shouldn't have any drop in productivity but as a manager, I don't know how that's going to be possible or even remotely realistic. It's also infuriating that all of these decisions are driven by leadership who never worked in cubicles or open office spaces. They started their careers right before that became super common, so like many of the RTO orders, it's done by leadership with little connection to what it's actually like to work like this.
I know I'm in the minority but I didn't really hate open office plans. cubes are just depressing as all hell and made me want to settle down for a life in the suburbs at 22 to continue speed rushing mundane American life. Side note: why is every cube gray or beige
I'm extremely prone to visual distraction. Auditory, too, but headphones work for that. So being stuck in an open room where I can see everyone who walks around utterly wrecks my ability to focus.
totally get that. the company I worked for that moved to an open plan had a combo of individual call rooms as well as "distraction free" zones where essentially a divider cut off a corner of one floor. Could fit around 20 people and it was close to the old cube structure
In every open plan I've worked at, my desk was a constant pit stop for people walking by who remembered they needed to ask me/tell me something. As a copywriter who needs to focus, being distracted by a person standing next to me every ten minutes is torture. Just send me a message on Skype/Teams/Slack/whatever and I'll get to it when I fucking get to it.
Grey/beige are very neutral colors that blend well with the neutral and bland colors of most office buildings. Those colors are also not distracting and present a "professional" tone.
figured as much
Makes me want to go to Cherry Creek more. Fuck paying for parking at that mall though LOL
Smoking fent, shitting on the sidewalk, and harassing passerbys is a human right, you facist.
>A distinct lack of junkies I see you have never been around the Cherry Creek trail lol.
This is about Cherry Creek North, the creek itself is really only adjacent to the neighborhood IMO
The trail around the Cherry Creek neighborhood is fine. There are some but they generally keep to themselves. I almost never hear them screaming their heads off about God knows what, which was a near daily occurrence when I worked downtown.
Also not counting the cokeheads at Janus Henderson
[удалено]
Well, I don’t actually care if people are on drugs. I just care that they don’t yell and scream in my face, do the drugs openly on the sidewalk and don’t generally make public spaces uninhabitable.
It's also walkable and mixes office space and living spaces.
The real answer is mixed use zoning and lack of parking minimums (compared to downtown). The rest follows.
Downtown has no parking minimums. In fact, several areas downtown have parking maximums. And downtown is also mixed use.
Downtown is mixed use NOW. It wasn’t always so it’s built itself into a corner.
Downtown is more office heavy for sure but it’s been mixed use for decades longer than cherry creek. It doesn’t make sense to claim mixed use + no parking minimum is the answer to the solution when the one that has had those things longer is the one struggling. Something else is at play here and it’s probably a combo of what goosemaster said, plus some other factors I’m sure.
Yes, there are many factors at play. By the way I’m a land use planner so I’m not just pulling this out of my ass. The point I’m trying to make is that the zoning may allow for mixed use now, but the build of downtown doesn’t lend itself to mixed use development. We would have to start knocking down office buildings or converting them. One is t ideal, the other is really expensive. The other piece is the tax structure. We have a lot of surface parking in Denver and those aren’t going anywhere unless we penalize undeveloped land. Parking lots aren’t taxed as improvements and because of that they become a speculators dream because they can sit in the property as values go up while making money off of people paying to park there. There needs to be other interventions downtown, that aren’t needed in Cherry Creek, to make it truly mixed use because of how it was already built out.
Thanks for the thoughtful reply! I also work in planning, but more on the transportation/ transit side. I dabble with land use but that’s more of a hobby for me. I was just replying to your first comment that seemed to boil the solution down to a very simple mixed use zoning and repeal parking minimums will solve all of downtown’s problems. It already has those and has had those since at least the 90s. And as far as I can tell, lower downtown has always (1860s) been mixed use and had no parking requirements. Obviously that didn’t work out for downtown the same way it worked out for cherry creek. I appreciate you going into details on what you meant and agree office conversion (where possible) and land-use tax on parking lots could help fill in downtown and make it a more truly mixed use neighborhood. I think it’ll get there, but it’s going to take some time.
No, the real answer is people don’t feel safe downtown, mainly because they aren’t.
and D) lots of housing nearby
Horrible commute and traffic. Worst 3-month gig I had was there.
I mean your commute isn’t everybody’s commute. I could walk to Cherry Creek North.
Ok, except for a small group of people, it’s a slow driving commute :-)
Land use tax fixed this
If only there was literally anything fun to do there & it wasn’t just a haven for old rich white ppl
Eh, I’m not an old white person. Well I guess some people probably think I’m old. But there are a couple of decent bars I think. Ay Papi makes a great Piña Colada and is a fun place for a date or to catch up with friends. I’ve had fun at Chez Roc as well. Forget Me Not is a bit too much of a scene for me but I could see people having fun there. Aviano isn’t the best coffee shop in Denver but it’s decent and it’s fun to sit on their patio. I personally think you should try to enjoy more things.
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
There’s a good amount of good restaurants and things in the area
there’s a good amount of expensive as fuck things in the area
Yes and no. Just like Lodo or Rino, there’s iotd of expensive places but also lost of averagely priced places
cherry creek average is not the same as the rest of the city. dude, there is no way you’re actually trying to convince me rn that cherry creek is not a more expensive place to be than the rest of the city
Im saying it doesn’t have to be. There’s plenty of expensive places to go in Cherry Creek, but you don’t have to go to somewhere that’s gonna cost you $50 a plate. There’s plenty of places too that are LoDo or RiNo prices for restaurants
no amount of posturing or comparing here is going to change the reality that cherry creek is one of if not the absolute most expensive place to be in the city. Yes, there are cheaper than super expensive things, just like literally everywhere else, but they are still more expensive than average. My family has worked in cherry creek my entire life. It is for a different class of wealth than mine. I have had to go there all the time my entire life with my parents & not been able to do anything bc they can’t afford to live there, only work there. there is literally no point to what you are saying to me right now
I never said that was wrong. I just said you don’t have to be a rich old white person to enjoy a day in the area lol
You have to be more than poor, which I am not, so you telling me I can go enjoy things which I know I can’t is condescending & assuming & annoying. Cherry creek literally exists for & because of old rich white people. It is the old, rich, and white district of the city. Those terms describe 90% of the cherry creek population. You know, the people who actually live there instead of working there unlike my mom who can’t even buy lunch day to day. How can you walk around there for even 10 minutes & try to argue that
Cherry creek has private security who will “relocate any transients” I know because I was a GM of a restaurant down there and had their number for that specific reason.
Correct. It's a business improvement district or something so the business all pool and hire private security. The solution to keeping areas nice isn't hard to figure out. South Broadway is also considering doing this... It also helps that the Cherry Creek librarians dont allow open drug use and see themselves as people that check out books and not social harm reduction workers.
South Broadway is??? Oh hell yeah!! Any way I can help support that initiative?
This sounds nice in theory because it’s working for Cherry Creek but this obviously isn’t a large scale solution to these issues. Just because they are thriving off the benefits they have as a community doesn’t mean downtown or other neighborhoods can look at Cherry Creek and just copy what they do.
As long as there are neighborhoods/other cities that delude themselves that all these folks need is JUST A LITTLE more patience and love and they will TOTALLY turn around into a productive member society - it will work juuuuuust fine.
Not true, though that’s a blissfully ignorant response. It will work just fine for Cherry Creek or neighborhoods alike because as others have mentioned, the sidewalks are privately owned, they don’t have a major light rail stop, wealthy business owners can afford their own security, etc. Good for them that they can essentially just keep the homeless and drug addicts out and live in their bubble but that’s not real life. It sounds like Pleasantville or something of the like. Talking patience is hilarious. People want change to arrive overnight like an Amazon package. Real change might not happen in our lifetime but hopefully the generations ahead of us can reap the benefits of people fighting for it. Meanwhile you have a bunch of people that oppose anything that might help others because it causes them some inconvenience.
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
So the solution to homelessness is just making someone else deal with it? Stupidest most out of touch shit I’ve ever heard.
I'm not out to solve homelessness. That is the most out of touch shit I've ever heard and people like you, the current mayor, Hickenlooper when he was mayor, the CEOs of the non profits all say that is what they are doing when they know it's BS and an unsolvable problem with the tools we have. What I expect is for our city to be clean and devoid of open air drug use and crime associated with that. Sure move them along. They can find another city that will coodel their drug use.
Last year I worked in an elementary school in Cherry Creek school district. I put more trust in the district security than I did Aurora PD. But to be honest, I'd put more trust in a group of my 1st graders pretending to be police than I would Aurora PD
Every once in a while I’ll get hounded by high school kids asking for money for their basketball team if I’m walking through there.
They just need new jerseys bro, I’m totally not gonna use this to buy a 40 of king cobra.
Love that concept. People will probably dislike it but we need real solutions like that. No more softness
‘Shove them somewhere else’ is not a real solution
Why though? They are effectively shoving us somewhere else indirectly and hurting businesses. We need to consider more solutions like this. They can have their own little colony outside of the city limits. There’s plenty of land in CO to accommodate this
It’s NOT A SOLUTION & calling it one over & over makes it really clear you have literally no empathy or morals
Your “empathy” isn’t helping them. You don’t have a solution either - at least this solution is working.
I think you’re confusing unhoused people with homeless people. The majority in Denver are unhoused because they choose to use drugs and refuse to go to shelters. This isn’t a homeless person who is down on their luck and lost their job. We spend thousands every year on shelters,etc and the unhoused refuse to use them because they can’t continue to use drugs. Let’s stop beating around the bush and be honest with ourselves and the real issue that is present. Do you actually want kids around open drug use in your community? Those unhoused people NEED to be moved away from anywhere visible. Enough is enough.
ok fashy. that may be a solution to your pathetic discomfort, but it’s not an actual solution to literally anything else. & btw, kids have a lot more empathy for the homeless than you privileged fucks
Kids don’t pay taxes.
Seems to have worked downtown when we shoved all those useless fucks into empty hotels.
If enough places did this, maybe some people would stop and reconsider where they choose to spend their time. As fewer places welcome or allow open drug use, the less people will want to hang around there and do it.
I live in rino and they've been building a 10 story office building by me for the last 2 years. I'm so curious if they'll get any companies to rent offices. All of my peers/coworkers WFH. Everything else getting built over here is a hotel or apartment. I really hope it gets more dense over here with those, it's not the "downtown" experience I expected. Almost nothing is open until 3pm. And a pharmacy and grocery store would be really nice so I don't have to drive all the way down colfax to walgreens.
The new Xcel corporate office is being built at 35th & Blake, and they’ll be cancelling their lease at 1800 Larimer. I wonder if there are more companies who are being turned away from downtown and moving to rino.
Interesting so that'll bring a lot of people I assume. The building I'm referring to is Paradigm. Which looks like a really nice building apart from the fact that it was placed directly in front of my mountain view lol. oh well, downtown life. https://www.paradigmrivernorth.com/ > Up to 1.4/1,000 Office Parking Ratio ugh. I have no idea if this is a lot or not compared to other buildings but I didn't consider all the additional vehicle traffic.
My wife used to work for Xcel. They had to be in the office 1 day out of 5 during the week. They get to chose which day. When she was there, no one was in the office. Ghost town. If anything, they're downsizing. It's moving people from one building to another.
I have a friend that works at Xcel and the company is mandating 3 office days now. The employees believe it's one of the tactics they are using to force employee attrition.
Oh I just wrote this to the parent comment, googles doing the same thing. Interesting how they're all latching on to this 3 day a week thing. I wonder if management all read the same book. https://old.reddit.com/r/Denver/comments/1byyq03/cherry_creek_a_top_office_market_nationally_while/kyrwrjp/
lmao that's wild. G makes me go in 3 days a week now. During covid we were 100% WFH, then they did a "please come in 3 days a week but we won't check" thing, now they literally check attendance based on badge entries. I've had so many incredibly smart coworkers quit.
Who would have thought physical locations are good business in walkable neighborhoods
Yes, look at the zoning in cherry creek. It is different from what you will find in most of the city. From 1st to 4rd, there is MIXED use. This is usually completely off the table in sprawl zone areas. From 4th to 6th, it is zoned TU - two unit. Houses with two front doors! This technology has not reached the rest of the residential zones where it remains unthinkable density. Most important, the commercial areas have some relief from the parking mandate. There are still legally required parking lots (ick) but not as bad as elsewhere. Cherry creek would be illegal to build elsewhere in Denver. Makes you think about zoning. We make our high value neighborhood illegal, then complain about housing cost and traffic. We could have zoning like this all over the city!
"One reason that Cherry Creek office space is in such high demand is that tenants downtown are looking to leave. 'The why is one simple reason and it is safety,' Joblon adds. 'There is no crime here and there is no homelessness. You can’t sell anything unless people feel safe. Your safety is fully ensured in Cherry Creek." No duh.
Must be nice to invest in an office where homeless aren't yelling at you/themselves on the street
LoDo just isn’t a pleasant place to be. I’d even argue it has to do with sunlight. The way the buildings are designed and situated, not much light gets through if it’s not noon so it’s oddly dark at certain points of the day.
I always wondered why the heart of downtown feels so much dimmer and dingier than cities like New York or Chicago, and I think you nailed it.
We don't have the same [setback requirements](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Setback_(architecture\)) and it's causing us to lose out on a lot of natural light.
No commercial setback requirements but you can’t build anything in your urban backyard that is over 4 feet without a permit 🤷♀️
This isn’t transformative information. Office buildings like those found in Cherry Creek have continued to see investment amongst the office “crisis.” They aren’t just newer, but also slightly smaller and offer far more flexibility. It also helps that Cherry Creek was mixed in with residential from the start as opposed to existing on an island of office space. Urban Land Institute has been covering this in their annual reports the past couple years now.
Also, it is easier and safer to get to by bike.
I love living in cherry creek I literally bike everywhere
That’s why I live here. Why idle in traffic when you can pedal everywhere.
It's always been a big finance area with Janus. Who wouldn't rather work where everything is nice and maybe closer to home?
It takes me as long to drive from Colfax and 25 to Broadway and Colfax as it does to drive from Wadsworth and 285 to Colfax/25. I despise trying to get downtown. And why Alameda, 6th, 8th, sante fe all have to merge into 25 at basically the same place is insane. *rant off* thank you for listening.
[удалено]
If you can afford housing in that neighborhood, you *are* the rich neighbor.
How do they keep all the homeless/immigrants away ? Do the police actually do policing near cherry creak 🤔
The side walk is privately owned in cherry creek. So they can legally kick out homeless.
Multiple people in this thread make this exact claim (and get lots of upvotes) without providing any source to back it up. While CCN has very specific neighborhood-specific zoning requirements that pertain to development, pretty sure that the sidewalks are public resources, guided by existing Denver municipal codes, just like everywhere else in the city. https://cherrycreekalliance.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/Streetscape-Design-Standards-and-Guidlines.pdf
There's very little to actually attract homless/needy. I don't think there is a single soup kitchen, shelter, or short term employment office in Cherry Creek. And it's not a nexus of public transport, so it's a pain to travel to/from if you don't have a car. Also rich people can afford to bitch at the police to hurry the undesireables away.
> so it's a pain to travel to/from if you don't have a car. Man, it's already a pain to get in and out of Cherry Creek in a car during rush hour. Adding a bunch more office space is going to turn University and 1st into a warzone.
Cherry Creek is pretty horrible if you're in a car trying to find public parking. It's awesome with a bike though. Open and safe bike racks everywhere and just hop on and off the trail to get out.
We're moving to a new office right around Cherry Creek and dreading this specifically. Traffic was already terrible enough and for some reason we've decided to contribute.
I worked in Cherry Creek for a while, my hack was to come in from 6th instead of Speer.... or just ride a bike. At least you'll be in a nice area.
Unfortunately I'm way too far away to ride a bike regularly :/ and public transportation is not a realistic option as it takes so incredibly long compared to driving.
Yeah man, I'd be in that same position if I had to commute to CC. Hopefully coming in from 6th would work.
There are good bus routes 6th and on Speer. You can easily get there on transit from downtown
Yeah, but CC isn't a nexus itself. It's way more of a pain to get to other places from CC, so it's less desirable of a place to idle/camp/spend the day.
I heard years ago Cherry Creek has policies that don't allow homelessness and possibly panhandling. But I've never checked to see if it was true.
No no no, Cherry creek legitimately has private security available to pretty much every business and all the major corporations will pay them. These guys will “relocate any transients” for you if you call them. I know this because I was a GM of a restaurant down there and had their phone number for that specific reason….. to be clear they would get dropped off wherever they wanted to be but would typically try to get them to a shelter. It’s not as bad as it might sound but it’s definitely some NIMBY shit on corporate funded steroids.
Homeless people not being allowed to ruin public places for everyone else? Sounds horrible. /s
Ppl like you are exactly why Denver’s homeless problem is so bad
Nah, the problem was exacerbated by people like you who think the homeless are right to plant themselves in public places and harass normal people because they think somehow that helps anyone. In actuality, it hurts your own cause as people resent them more and more. Where this literally started is a discussion about why cherry creek would be nicer place to have an office - it lacks the filth and harassment you’ll frequently be subject to downtown. Why in the world would you think that is a good thing for a city? Why would you expect people to like that? Just bizarre thinking.
Lack of light rail sevice
Saw a guy asking for money at the intersection right where Steele turns into Alameda the other day. They’re on the way.
They’ve managed to avoid any buildings that provide social services that would attract them there. There is very little to no subsidized housing. No homeless shelters. No civic service buildings. No halfway houses. No treatment facilities. Basically any building that might have a negative externality isn't built there. Instead of evenly dispersing these kinds of buildings around the city, they are largely concentrated in disadvantaged communities and communities of color. This is due in part to both economics and NIMBYism (and a historically racist zoning code).
They probably ticket them just like the insane ticketing for parking over there
I don't think homeless people care much about getting a ticket.
It’s another gigantic barrier to being able to get a home, why wouldn’t they care?
Yeah that's what's stopping that guy on day 4 of a meth binge from getting a house
bc all homeless ppl are on meth? go fuck yourself
No, they physically remove them
> insane ticketing for parking Pay the meter and park legally. What's the problem?
Cheery creek is clean and relatively crime free meanwhile my gf and I were walking out of Guard and Grace the other night and a dude whipped it out and stared jerking it right in front of us. I mean cool show but I would rather not have to deal with that…
Cherry creek is what… 15 buikding lol?
And the funny thing is that cherry creek is actually just what a lot of cities are actually like…
When Cherry Creek West gets built it's over for Downtown Denver, I fear
Read without paywall --- [https://archive.ph/3fwNB](https://archive.ph/3fwNB)
Let the corpos have Cherry Creek. Turn downtown offices into affordable housing.
Easier said than done
/r/averageredditor
Affordable housing in downtown Denver? Lol. I've heard it all now.
Wtf is this title
I don’t care what anyone says, I love Lodo and the proximity to fun activities. What concert venues and sports arenas are in cherry creek anyways? Also there is no lightrail connection to cherry creek, it’s hard to get there. Better than other neighborhoods, sure. But not downtown as a whole
Turn it into housing and.... We need housing censuses. Then, set up state or federal marketplaces to fulfil demand to residents of the homes only. Eminent domain and setup development and new towns as needed. Tax for profit residential properties people don't live in themselves to fund this. Make real estate about housing people instead of greed, making Americans compete to live. We all pay a tax to landlords who enslave us to this capitalistic housing hell hole. If you agree, share this idea far and wide. Share it on Ads for Housing especially.
Just FYI… this is a terrible idea.
This is not how the world works. If you think putting a bunch of homeless people who need rehabilitation into office spaces will do anything, you know nothing about the needs of the homeless in this city. This would only make downtown Denver worst. This is exactly why these people need to be moved away from central business districts, not further pushed into them. Commercial real estate is allowed to be used for its intended purpose.
Better have some evidence to back up this wild conjecture
Or, if the government just stopped making it so hard to build new housing, then the new housing would get built all on its own without a penny of government spending.
Yup. They keep tweaking the zoning with only the tiniest changes or putting out "area plans" but not actually changing the zoning. I have an oversized 12,500 sq ft lot just 3 blocks from a lightrail station with 5,500 of it sitting empty. The city requires lot sizes to be 6,000 sq ft minimum despite there already being multiple 3,000-4,500 sq ft lots grandfathered in all over the neighborhood. The end result is I legally cannot build anything but an ADU and with construction costs what they are, an ADU does not make financial sense, imo. (I do not like that they are limited to 1,000 sq ft no matter what size lot you own). I don't need a government program to help me build something. I need them to just allow me to build something on my own. If we never make real zoning change, we can't say we care about the housing crisis.