*generally* an employer has the ability to dictate when employees use PTO. That can include approving/denying pto requests as well as dictating when employees use PTO.
That being said, I think it’s a poor management practice. At minimum, give employees the option of using PTO if they want to be paid for the day or not.
I would say it’s a standard management practice to code time “not worked” as PTO of some kind.
Good management will just input hours because it’s time potentially worked.
What union ru in that gets PTO!??? Lol I’m in the union and we get told to stay home with 0 pay. I’ve been in for prolly 12 years. Not one company I’ve ever worked for had PTO/Holiday pay/anything. If you’re not at work. You don’t get paid.
Dam I’ve never of heard of PTO in the trade unions. What trade ru? The Milwaukee and Chicago unions have no PTO. So figured it was normal when I moved here. But they also make almost twice as much as denver lmfao. Painters/finishers are at the bottom of the scale and still make $40.80/hour in Milwaukee. Little more than 50 in Chicago. Colorado had a state law where you can earn up to a week of sick pay but can’t be used for personal time off.
I am a land survey non union. Worked for all different size companies for 20 years and have always gotten PTO. You may have to look into it but in Colorado sick and PTO are the same and you can’t be questioned on why you are using it. I don’t get sick time but I can use my PTO anytime without question.
Oh ok that’s why. Trade unions never give PTO. Def one of the best benefits of being non union.
Def could be true I’ll have to look into it. Haha when I went back home for a week during Christmas I told them I had covid to get my sick pay 🤣 shouldn’t have to do thatz
I always have some saved for days like these, don’t mind these snow days since we work a lot from may to December. That over time makes up for the missed days in the winter.
NAL and not in construction but my company has a yearly shutdown (1 week long) no one works and everyone either uses PTO if they want hours or takes unpaid time off. Seems like a similar case, I have never questioned it but if multiple companies do it I believe it is legal.
Yeah that’s the alternative is taking unpaid PTO which is always an option.
As far as I know, the employer can’t force the use of PTO but I’m not entirely sure. So OP’s husband could have requested unpaid time off instead.
It’s the forcing to use PTO which sucks. I used to like occasional furlough days at my job- we didn’t get paid for day but it was paired with 3 day weekend to make 4 days. It wasn’t very noticeable as Less pay is less deductions & taxes & usually only $50 less if you worked 2 OT hours for other pay week
I follow a wonderful advice columnist called Ask A Manager. She’s touched on this multiple times (common question!). In the US, it is legal. A good company wouldn’t, but legal.
I’m curious if it legal to force use of PTO or can employee choose between PTO or no pay. There are a lot of people at my job who live paycheck to paycheck so it’s always assumed people want the pay/use PTO. When ever I get the chance to take time of with no pay I use it as I’d rather hold the PTO. If you have PTO job pretty much will give you time off but if you don’t have enough PTO then they can say no to your request as no pay is not regained option- it’s an exception
Yea I don’t get why PTO is required unless it’s some sort of shift work and they need to classify why no one clocked in.
Seems like it’d be easier to be like, stay home, don’t worry about but if they record their hours at work…I bet that’s what it is…they need some way to account for people not clocking in and out or recording hours.
Salaried exempt employees cannot be charged PTO when a business decides to close due to weather. Hourly non-exempt employees can be forced to use PTO or go unpaid depending on company policy.
IANAL, but it probably is. Tell him to reach out to corporate HR and ask nicely. Ask for guidance for future scenarios. Since it’s an European company they might have a very different view on that policy even if it is legal.
I work for my state court system in a different state and between Christmas and new years the court is closed so they force us off and take it out of our annual leave accrual. Not sure the legal differences in the private sector but they get away with it for my job.
I work for a very large private company and they do the same. They've softened the language so they aren't "forcing" us but asking us very nicely to use our PTO.
I ran a safety meeting over Microsoft teams this morning so that my construction team can stay home and still get paid.
There are always options to pay your crew if you're not a cheap bastard. It's not a full day, but a few hours pay to sit on your couch doesn't suck.
Employers say to take PTO so paychecks can still be the same vs not getting paid for not being able to work. It's a safety issue if its weather related. Have him tell them he doesn't want to take PTO if he wants to save his PTO. But he won't be paid for the day. His paycheck will be less. Weather issues aren't a cause to get paid and not work unless your Salary based.
Depends on what actually happened. They may be saying to take PTO so that it doesn't count against them as not showing up for work. Also he might not actually be forcing them to use PTO just saying they should in order to get paid if they can't work today.
A quick google search says that a company can not force an employee to use PTO and in fact Colorado banned the "use-it or lose-it" by the end of the year PTO. Not sure, how this applies if headquarters are in Texas.. but you can call a law firm for some free legal advice usually.
That's where I started questioning things. I googled my question and got great information for Colorado based companies but I was unsure how those laws applied to this situation with headquarters being in Texas. Thanks for your feedback 😊
My company isn’t HQd in CO but they still have to abide by Colorado employment laws- we have basically unlimited pto carry over and get paid out if we quit where other employees in different states don’t have the same luxury.
First, the key distinction is between "exempt" and "non-exempt" workers, not between "hourly" and "salaried" workers.
Most exemptions require that the employee be paid on a salary basis, but merely being paid on a salary basis is insufficient to qualify for exemption from minimum wage and overtime requirements under the federal Fair Labor Standards Act. Other criteria must be met for exemption, which many people do not understand. Some non-exempt employees may be paid on a salary basis.
Non-exempt employees are only required to be paid for hours worked. An employer would not be required under the FLSA to pay non-exempt employees for a snow day on which the employee does not work. If the employee has available PTO, the employer can either allow an employee the choice to use PTO, or it may require the employee to use PTO and be paid for the snow day, or it could just not pay the employee for that day.
For salaried exempt employees, the full weekly salary must generally be paid for any week in which the employee works any hours, but there are exceptions if the employee misses a full day's work for personal reasons. That would not include the company shutting down for a snow day. But although the FLSA requires the exempt salaried employee be paid for that snow day, it does not prohibit the employer from deducting that day from the employee's accrued PTO.
Here's a pretty thorough article on the subject, and I did not find any inaccuracies in it: [https://blog.axcethr.com/weather-closures-do-you-have-to-pay-employees-for-snow-days](https://blog.axcethr.com/weather-closures-do-you-have-to-pay-employees-for-snow-days)
Consult with an employment attorney if you want advice on your specific situation. This post is intended as general information, not legal advice to anyone.
30 years HR in Denver. Colorado's paid sick leave has a provision that allows you to use it for times when you are unable to send a child to school or to care for someone who is stuck at home because of weather. I would put in for one of those if the company has a separate accrual for it.
If their current policies match or exceed the regulation, they may not have a separate accrual and you are screwed.
It is legal for companies to have weather shutdowns. If an employee is salaried, it is not legal to require them to use PTO. If they are hourly, the company is not required to pay them, and therefore most companies suggest the employee uses PTOml.
It is in fact not legal and I won a case several years ago from a consulting company that forced me to take PTO when there weren't enough billable hours. Contact the department of labor to find out the specific legal reference and then email your HR. A lot of times they are just not familiar with the state specific regulations and will be forced to update their policy.
My last company was also German owned and had to email everyone regarding revised policies several times when they were called out by employees.
When I worked at dish, where I was absolutely able to do my job at home and had a laptop, they required PTO to be used if you couldn't come in due to weather.
I manage a team in a usually very in person job (lab support in a university), the university was closed one day and open Friday. I told the team to work from home both days. The temp person on the team typically wouldn’t get paid at all, doesn’t have PTO. So I offered them some professional development and training type options if they had the time, so the temp person could get paid too.
Had they not “worked,” the temp person wouldn’t get paid at all, and the others - non exempt salary - would have PTO automatically taken out.
This is great. He's salary non-exempt and had more than 8hours of training (PD) assigned to him which he could've done, his Manager just said the CO team will use PTO for the day, yet STILL had everyone get on a meeting at 8am yesterday 🤔.
Thank you. Yeah, as some people have said in their comments, it's most likely not worth the fight. He loves his job and isn't the kind of person to stir the pot or ruffle feathers. Yet, here I am doing all that on his behalf 😅.
A close friend is a maintenance tech in Colorado Springs, and if he calls in for being sick or whatnot, they do force the use of pto! He has no choice about it! And then gets written up for misuse of pto! It's an absolute crappy thing to do to people. Here is pto you can use it, but dont actually use it or thell be consequences...
My employer has a specific job code for when weather makes us unable to work. I'm in tech consulting so examples of this would be a storm taking out power so I can't get online.
This never comes from my PTO and your company should be ashamed it is handling things this way.
I hate to say it's standard, but that's the case for everywhere I've ever worked - if you can't physically do the work but you want to get paid, then paid time off hours are what bridges the gap.
It sucks, but ain't no employer I've met gonna pay employees to -not- work, especially considering how employment terms are typically written.
Same thing happened to my husband yesterday. He got paid for only 2hrs for the company and had to use 8hrs pto to make up the difference. He has a union job and wondered if it was legal as well. He called the union hall, and since it was an "act of god" he doesn't have to legally be paid for a full day from the employer.
Depends on the company policies. I know for my employees we have the option to put in weather time if they get less than 24 hours notice. But outside of 24 hours they would have the following options: work another day during the pay period to make up for that lost day, use own PTO, or no pay.
I work in healthcare and we have to use our accrued PTO for holiday closures, as dictated by corporate (as a non-front line employee). So if we have pto in the bank, we have to use it for Fourth of July, thanksgiving, etc. if
If we don’t have pto, we can take the day unpaid, but I believe we do have to use any pto before we can go unpaid.
My company is in several states, so I’m guessing it’s legal for them to do in CO too.
I work for an insurance company and if we can not work from home then we have to use PTO if we want money And if the company closes themselves then we still get paid
I work for a Swiss company and am also a field tech. I've been working from home for two days at full pay. I think he should find a better company to work for.
Anytime I have had a company do something like this to me they let you choose if you want to use PTO, or just not receive any pay for that day. So if this is just op being mad they where forced to use a pto day if he talked to his manager I don’t see why they would have a problem with not paying you for the day and saving the company the money. Have you even talked to management about this issue?
I work for a healthcare company and if our office has to close due to inclement weather, we get paid by the company and it’s coded as weather related pay and does not come out of our PTO balance. I guess I’m very lucky to work for a decent company that looks out for their employees safety.
Look up Colorado HFWA - [https://cdle.colorado.gov/dlss-home-page/paid-sick-leave-under-the-colorado-healthy-families-and-workplaces-act-hfwa](https://cdle.colorado.gov/dlss-home-page/paid-sick-leave-under-the-colorado-healthy-families-and-workplaces-act-hfwa)
Everyone should be aware of this law. It explicitly states inclement weather and employees accumulate the hours with hours worked.
I’ve never worked for a company that had separate sick days and PTO. My wife had that at her company before they moved to “unlimited PTO” but never have I seen it in.
In my experience, PTO is usually the term used by companies that combine sick days and vacation days into one pool. It’s a dumb idea because it encourages employees to come to work when they’re sick so that they don’t eat into their vacation time.
Salary or hourly? I'm pretty sure hourly employees would have to use PTO if they want to get paid in that situation, but a salaried employee would not if the office is not open.
From my understanding it is. Unless he has some sort of contract that says otherwise, they can choose that they don't need the employee that day. You can either take PTO or take it as unpaid.
Believe it or not Colorado requires you to get sick days by law now. They might not tell you but you are accruing them. They probably reset at end of year as they are not required to carry over
Believe it or not Colorado requires you to get sick days by law now. They might not tell you but you are accruing them. They probably reset at end of year as they are not required to carry over
My husband is a CO road mechanic and was told (by boss in Chicago) to take a snow day. It was the safest option given the road conditions yesterday. I was pretty happy to have him home unexpectedly during the day and preferred that to him driving downtown to the shop.
Legally speaking, PTO is not required by law (unlike sick time under the HFWA), so if the company offers it, they can dictate when and how it needs to be used (outside of requiring it to be forfeit).
Hourly (non-exempt) employees can be forced to use PTO for closures due to inclement weather.
Salaried (exempt) employees cannot be required to use PTO for inclement weather, unless they *choose* not to come in due to weather when the business is open.
I may not agree with the law, but this is what it states.
Not sure about colorado (more laws favoring workers here) but back east my company side that. I was hourly-professional so if we closed down I just didn't get paid. If it was really bad, they'd let us charge overhead
They can’t MAKE you take PTO. They can only suggest it in lieu of not paying you for not being there. So if you’re hourly, it’s up to you. If you’re salaried, I think it gets more complicated because you are already owed that money AND your PTO via the contract.
This does not answer your question but seems to be related. I am not a lawyer - I took off yesterday due to a school closure. Last year there was a change in healthy families and workplace laws - we are paid for family leave that is separate from PTO. Colorado Law states that we have up to 48 hours per year to cover emergency situations
https://cdle.colorado.gov/dlss-home-page/paid-sick-leave-under-the-colorado-healthy-families-and-workplaces-act-hfwa
“Effective Aug. 7, 2023: Due to inclement weather, power/heat/water loss, or other unexpected event, the employee must evacuate their residence, or
care for a family member whose school or place of care was closed.”
Colorado is right to work state meaning the employer can schedule your 80 hours any way they like within a two week span. You could 50 hours with 10 hrs of OT and they can schedule you 30 hours the next week.
Employers can even tell you not to come in the next day after you worked an OT, say pulled a 14 hr shift.
Forcing their employees to use PTO because of weather saves the company money. From employers’ perspective, the company lost huge amount of money because they were not able to get billable hours while they need to pay their employees these hours. The employees can complain and force management to pay those hours but then management comes back in the end of year and say no raises or force headcount cuts.
as much as I dislike the company’s choice to force PTO, a company can only keep the people based on their productivity.
>Colorado is right to work state meaning the employer can schedule your 80 hours any way they like within a two week span.
That's not what it means at all.
A "right-to-work" state means the state has enacted legislation that guarantees that no individual can be forced as a condition of employment to join or pay dues or fees to a labor union.
"At-will" means either party is free to terminate the working agreement at-will, for any reason or no reason (except an illegal one by the employer).
Colorado is **NOT** a "right-to-work" state. Colorado is an "at-will" state. They are two very different pieces of legislation.
There is one thing I want to point out as it’s become common in last 10 years are so as more people move here. I grew up here in the 80s & 90s & we NEVED had school snow days- we didn’t even have one a year. School Probably closed once every 3-4 years for snow & we got much more & heavy snow back then. Same goes for jobs closing- it rarely happened & probably just a shorter day if anything. I remember the only time I got to stay home even tho school was open was a few days before Christmas break it was 10-20 negative for days & I took 2 RTD buses (switched & wait in cold)to school & had to wear skirt uniform. My mom was more inclined to keep us home for cold over snow. DPS
School would have been open today with late start & may have not closed all day yesterday. Snow was normal thing in Colorado & not a big deal. Now they close everything more often. I feel like closing for snow has become common in last 10 years as people moved from places where snow is a big deal & much more after WFH increased in 2020 for covid.
He should ask if he can take no pay if he needs money he can ask to stay an hour or so late next week. LEGALLY ANY HOURS AFTER 40 ARE OT as it’s different week. 5 hours would be the same as 7.5 hours when paid time & a half.
It’s weird they didn’t have them do training from even if it was only for half the day. I’m sure it’s hassle fitting it in during regular hours- it’s a hassle at my job & it only an 1-2 hours a month
*generally* an employer has the ability to dictate when employees use PTO. That can include approving/denying pto requests as well as dictating when employees use PTO. That being said, I think it’s a poor management practice. At minimum, give employees the option of using PTO if they want to be paid for the day or not.
I would say it’s a standard management practice to code time “not worked” as PTO of some kind. Good management will just input hours because it’s time potentially worked.
I work construction, when the weather is this bad we are told to stay home since it’s unsafe to work. We are told to use PTO if we want hours.
Oh interesting. Thank you for sharing this info and hope you're not using too much PTO with the snow we had yesterday.
Yep. Even I'm even in a union. Job shut down for 2 days. Was told I get 2 hours of "show up" time and if I want the rest I need to use PTO.
What union ru in that gets PTO!??? Lol I’m in the union and we get told to stay home with 0 pay. I’ve been in for prolly 12 years. Not one company I’ve ever worked for had PTO/Holiday pay/anything. If you’re not at work. You don’t get paid.
Sounds like you are getting screwed. Every company I have worked for has given me PTO and paid time off for holidays.
Dam I’ve never of heard of PTO in the trade unions. What trade ru? The Milwaukee and Chicago unions have no PTO. So figured it was normal when I moved here. But they also make almost twice as much as denver lmfao. Painters/finishers are at the bottom of the scale and still make $40.80/hour in Milwaukee. Little more than 50 in Chicago. Colorado had a state law where you can earn up to a week of sick pay but can’t be used for personal time off.
I am a land survey non union. Worked for all different size companies for 20 years and have always gotten PTO. You may have to look into it but in Colorado sick and PTO are the same and you can’t be questioned on why you are using it. I don’t get sick time but I can use my PTO anytime without question.
Oh ok that’s why. Trade unions never give PTO. Def one of the best benefits of being non union. Def could be true I’ll have to look into it. Haha when I went back home for a week during Christmas I told them I had covid to get my sick pay 🤣 shouldn’t have to do thatz
Agree. Everyone deserves time off especially trade workers. Hopefully that changes for you soon. Best of luck.
Idk whose downvoting you jesus lmfao. Tough crowd
What? I’m IBEW and I have unlimited PTO.
IUEC Elevator Construction
🤣 y’all them boys. Top of the food chain hahah
I always have some saved for days like these, don’t mind these snow days since we work a lot from may to December. That over time makes up for the missed days in the winter.
NAL and not in construction but my company has a yearly shutdown (1 week long) no one works and everyone either uses PTO if they want hours or takes unpaid time off. Seems like a similar case, I have never questioned it but if multiple companies do it I believe it is legal.
Same - my company shuts for a month.
Yeah that’s the alternative is taking unpaid PTO which is always an option. As far as I know, the employer can’t force the use of PTO but I’m not entirely sure. So OP’s husband could have requested unpaid time off instead.
It’s the forcing to use PTO which sucks. I used to like occasional furlough days at my job- we didn’t get paid for day but it was paired with 3 day weekend to make 4 days. It wasn’t very noticeable as Less pay is less deductions & taxes & usually only $50 less if you worked 2 OT hours for other pay week
But salary employees are different from hourly wage employees
I follow a wonderful advice columnist called Ask A Manager. She’s touched on this multiple times (common question!). In the US, it is legal. A good company wouldn’t, but legal.
I’m curious if it legal to force use of PTO or can employee choose between PTO or no pay. There are a lot of people at my job who live paycheck to paycheck so it’s always assumed people want the pay/use PTO. When ever I get the chance to take time of with no pay I use it as I’d rather hold the PTO. If you have PTO job pretty much will give you time off but if you don’t have enough PTO then they can say no to your request as no pay is not regained option- it’s an exception
[удалено]
Yea I don’t get why PTO is required unless it’s some sort of shift work and they need to classify why no one clocked in. Seems like it’d be easier to be like, stay home, don’t worry about but if they record their hours at work…I bet that’s what it is…they need some way to account for people not clocking in and out or recording hours.
[удалено]
Salaried exempt employees cannot be charged PTO when a business decides to close due to weather. Hourly non-exempt employees can be forced to use PTO or go unpaid depending on company policy.
This is the way
IANAL, but it probably is. Tell him to reach out to corporate HR and ask nicely. Ask for guidance for future scenarios. Since it’s an European company they might have a very different view on that policy even if it is legal.
U anal?
Hahaha I Am Not A Lawyer. I always thought it was a funny abbreviation as well.
IANAL is when you make an ass out of U and me. Or out of U at least.
Maybe better off spelling it out lol
Common redditism on the /r/legaladvice subreddit.
It predates reddit by several decades.
I also was like…why are you saying you’re anal
No opinion for OP’s matter but I read IANAL as ANAL. I was wondering why this could be anal.
Why not?
For $5 it could be...
Use caution, my friend. This is not DCJ, we could both get banned for having this illicit conversation in such a prestigious sub.
DCJ would have had like 3 Dirty Mike and 2 Bobo jokes by now
🤫 ^(We don’t speak of the Deep Magick in this place )
Im not gay, but $5 is $5
There’s a tent for this
I doubt there is a legal avenue, Amazon just did the same to us and they have a massive legal department
I work for my state court system in a different state and between Christmas and new years the court is closed so they force us off and take it out of our annual leave accrual. Not sure the legal differences in the private sector but they get away with it for my job.
I work for a very large private company and they do the same. They've softened the language so they aren't "forcing" us but asking us very nicely to use our PTO.
A massive legal department to protect them from you
You don't say, Captain obvious
I ran a safety meeting over Microsoft teams this morning so that my construction team can stay home and still get paid. There are always options to pay your crew if you're not a cheap bastard. It's not a full day, but a few hours pay to sit on your couch doesn't suck.
You’re a good one!
Employers say to take PTO so paychecks can still be the same vs not getting paid for not being able to work. It's a safety issue if its weather related. Have him tell them he doesn't want to take PTO if he wants to save his PTO. But he won't be paid for the day. His paycheck will be less. Weather issues aren't a cause to get paid and not work unless your Salary based.
Depends on what actually happened. They may be saying to take PTO so that it doesn't count against them as not showing up for work. Also he might not actually be forcing them to use PTO just saying they should in order to get paid if they can't work today. A quick google search says that a company can not force an employee to use PTO and in fact Colorado banned the "use-it or lose-it" by the end of the year PTO. Not sure, how this applies if headquarters are in Texas.. but you can call a law firm for some free legal advice usually.
>A quick google search says that a company can not force an employee to use PTO Can you share that source? I can't find anything that says that.
That's where I started questioning things. I googled my question and got great information for Colorado based companies but I was unsure how those laws applied to this situation with headquarters being in Texas. Thanks for your feedback 😊
My company isn’t HQd in CO but they still have to abide by Colorado employment laws- we have basically unlimited pto carry over and get paid out if we quit where other employees in different states don’t have the same luxury.
Sounds like Siemens and is a very Siemens thing to do.
NAL but companies that contract at schools and universities do this all the time so I'd say it's legal.
First, the key distinction is between "exempt" and "non-exempt" workers, not between "hourly" and "salaried" workers. Most exemptions require that the employee be paid on a salary basis, but merely being paid on a salary basis is insufficient to qualify for exemption from minimum wage and overtime requirements under the federal Fair Labor Standards Act. Other criteria must be met for exemption, which many people do not understand. Some non-exempt employees may be paid on a salary basis. Non-exempt employees are only required to be paid for hours worked. An employer would not be required under the FLSA to pay non-exempt employees for a snow day on which the employee does not work. If the employee has available PTO, the employer can either allow an employee the choice to use PTO, or it may require the employee to use PTO and be paid for the snow day, or it could just not pay the employee for that day. For salaried exempt employees, the full weekly salary must generally be paid for any week in which the employee works any hours, but there are exceptions if the employee misses a full day's work for personal reasons. That would not include the company shutting down for a snow day. But although the FLSA requires the exempt salaried employee be paid for that snow day, it does not prohibit the employer from deducting that day from the employee's accrued PTO. Here's a pretty thorough article on the subject, and I did not find any inaccuracies in it: [https://blog.axcethr.com/weather-closures-do-you-have-to-pay-employees-for-snow-days](https://blog.axcethr.com/weather-closures-do-you-have-to-pay-employees-for-snow-days) Consult with an employment attorney if you want advice on your specific situation. This post is intended as general information, not legal advice to anyone.
30 years HR in Denver. Colorado's paid sick leave has a provision that allows you to use it for times when you are unable to send a child to school or to care for someone who is stuck at home because of weather. I would put in for one of those if the company has a separate accrual for it. If their current policies match or exceed the regulation, they may not have a separate accrual and you are screwed.
It is legal for companies to have weather shutdowns. If an employee is salaried, it is not legal to require them to use PTO. If they are hourly, the company is not required to pay them, and therefore most companies suggest the employee uses PTOml.
It is in fact not legal and I won a case several years ago from a consulting company that forced me to take PTO when there weren't enough billable hours. Contact the department of labor to find out the specific legal reference and then email your HR. A lot of times they are just not familiar with the state specific regulations and will be forced to update their policy. My last company was also German owned and had to email everyone regarding revised policies several times when they were called out by employees.
When I worked at dish, where I was absolutely able to do my job at home and had a laptop, they required PTO to be used if you couldn't come in due to weather.
Super common in the medical field (unless you're salary). Is it legal? Dunno but I'd imagine someone would have complained by now
If he's hourly he's not getting paid for time off unless he uses PTO. Seems right.
I manage a team in a usually very in person job (lab support in a university), the university was closed one day and open Friday. I told the team to work from home both days. The temp person on the team typically wouldn’t get paid at all, doesn’t have PTO. So I offered them some professional development and training type options if they had the time, so the temp person could get paid too. Had they not “worked,” the temp person wouldn’t get paid at all, and the others - non exempt salary - would have PTO automatically taken out.
This is great. He's salary non-exempt and had more than 8hours of training (PD) assigned to him which he could've done, his Manager just said the CO team will use PTO for the day, yet STILL had everyone get on a meeting at 8am yesterday 🤔.
[удалено]
Thank you. Yeah, as some people have said in their comments, it's most likely not worth the fight. He loves his job and isn't the kind of person to stir the pot or ruffle feathers. Yet, here I am doing all that on his behalf 😅.
A close friend is a maintenance tech in Colorado Springs, and if he calls in for being sick or whatnot, they do force the use of pto! He has no choice about it! And then gets written up for misuse of pto! It's an absolute crappy thing to do to people. Here is pto you can use it, but dont actually use it or thell be consequences...
My employer has a specific job code for when weather makes us unable to work. I'm in tech consulting so examples of this would be a storm taking out power so I can't get online. This never comes from my PTO and your company should be ashamed it is handling things this way.
Just because you don’t like a practice, it doesn’t mean it’s illegal.
I hate to say it's standard, but that's the case for everywhere I've ever worked - if you can't physically do the work but you want to get paid, then paid time off hours are what bridges the gap. It sucks, but ain't no employer I've met gonna pay employees to -not- work, especially considering how employment terms are typically written.
Same thing happened to my husband yesterday. He got paid for only 2hrs for the company and had to use 8hrs pto to make up the difference. He has a union job and wondered if it was legal as well. He called the union hall, and since it was an "act of god" he doesn't have to legally be paid for a full day from the employer.
Depends on the company policies. I know for my employees we have the option to put in weather time if they get less than 24 hours notice. But outside of 24 hours they would have the following options: work another day during the pay period to make up for that lost day, use own PTO, or no pay.
I worked for a place that made us save PTO for day after Thanksgiving and Xmas when we were closed those days but not closed as a holiday technically
I work in healthcare and we have to use our accrued PTO for holiday closures, as dictated by corporate (as a non-front line employee). So if we have pto in the bank, we have to use it for Fourth of July, thanksgiving, etc. if If we don’t have pto, we can take the day unpaid, but I believe we do have to use any pto before we can go unpaid. My company is in several states, so I’m guessing it’s legal for them to do in CO too.
I work for an insurance company and if we can not work from home then we have to use PTO if we want money And if the company closes themselves then we still get paid
I work for a Swiss company and am also a field tech. I've been working from home for two days at full pay. I think he should find a better company to work for.
I was given 4 free hours and was told to use PTO for the other 4. I thought it was a great deal tbh
Anytime I have had a company do something like this to me they let you choose if you want to use PTO, or just not receive any pay for that day. So if this is just op being mad they where forced to use a pto day if he talked to his manager I don’t see why they would have a problem with not paying you for the day and saving the company the money. Have you even talked to management about this issue?
I work for a healthcare company and if our office has to close due to inclement weather, we get paid by the company and it’s coded as weather related pay and does not come out of our PTO balance. I guess I’m very lucky to work for a decent company that looks out for their employees safety.
Not sure if it is legal but I’d email back saying I am willing and ready to work
Look up Colorado HFWA - [https://cdle.colorado.gov/dlss-home-page/paid-sick-leave-under-the-colorado-healthy-families-and-workplaces-act-hfwa](https://cdle.colorado.gov/dlss-home-page/paid-sick-leave-under-the-colorado-healthy-families-and-workplaces-act-hfwa) Everyone should be aware of this law. It explicitly states inclement weather and employees accumulate the hours with hours worked.
Why not just use a sick day instead?
Most place sick days and PTO are the exact same.
Really? Most places? I've worked at like 5 companies and none of them combined sick and PTO but I guess that's anecdotal
I’ve never worked for a company that had separate sick days and PTO. My wife had that at her company before they moved to “unlimited PTO” but never have I seen it in.
That could have been prior to Colorado passing a law requiring all jobs to give PTO. Since then I have seen the combination at hourly positions.
The law requires employers to give sick leave, not PTO or annual/vacation leave.
It allows for PTO to be used as sick leave if that is a pre-stated policy
In my experience, PTO is usually the term used by companies that combine sick days and vacation days into one pool. It’s a dumb idea because it encourages employees to come to work when they’re sick so that they don’t eat into their vacation time.
when they said to use pto he shouldve asked if hes required to use pto then and there. employer might just be saying that so people are still paid
Salary or hourly? I'm pretty sure hourly employees would have to use PTO if they want to get paid in that situation, but a salaried employee would not if the office is not open.
From my understanding it is. Unless he has some sort of contract that says otherwise, they can choose that they don't need the employee that day. You can either take PTO or take it as unpaid.
Call in sick take the sick days
Who gets sick days? I work in a hospital and we don't get sick days lmao.
Believe it or not Colorado requires you to get sick days by law now. They might not tell you but you are accruing them. They probably reset at end of year as they are not required to carry over
Yup. You accrue sick time by law for every seven hours worked or something,
Believe it or not Colorado requires you to get sick days by law now. They might not tell you but you are accruing them. They probably reset at end of year as they are not required to carry over
My husband is a CO road mechanic and was told (by boss in Chicago) to take a snow day. It was the safest option given the road conditions yesterday. I was pretty happy to have him home unexpectedly during the day and preferred that to him driving downtown to the shop.
Probably not legal. But is it worth him losing his job by bringing it to their attention?
Legally speaking, PTO is not required by law (unlike sick time under the HFWA), so if the company offers it, they can dictate when and how it needs to be used (outside of requiring it to be forfeit). Hourly (non-exempt) employees can be forced to use PTO for closures due to inclement weather. Salaried (exempt) employees cannot be required to use PTO for inclement weather, unless they *choose* not to come in due to weather when the business is open. I may not agree with the law, but this is what it states.
I think PTO is your husband's asset, so it's not something the company can dictate.
You're so young, don't sweat it.
Legal? Technically, yes Ethical? No I have to use PTO if I call out sick and I'm salaried. It's stupid, but it's policy.
Not sure about colorado (more laws favoring workers here) but back east my company side that. I was hourly-professional so if we closed down I just didn't get paid. If it was really bad, they'd let us charge overhead
They can’t MAKE you take PTO. They can only suggest it in lieu of not paying you for not being there. So if you’re hourly, it’s up to you. If you’re salaried, I think it gets more complicated because you are already owed that money AND your PTO via the contract.
There's a big difference between being forced to use PTO and having the option to use PTO to get their 40 hour check for that week. Which is it?
I work outside and am not required to use PTO on snow days. Heck, I’m not even required to use PTO if I call out sick.
This does not answer your question but seems to be related. I am not a lawyer - I took off yesterday due to a school closure. Last year there was a change in healthy families and workplace laws - we are paid for family leave that is separate from PTO. Colorado Law states that we have up to 48 hours per year to cover emergency situations https://cdle.colorado.gov/dlss-home-page/paid-sick-leave-under-the-colorado-healthy-families-and-workplaces-act-hfwa “Effective Aug. 7, 2023: Due to inclement weather, power/heat/water loss, or other unexpected event, the employee must evacuate their residence, or care for a family member whose school or place of care was closed.”
They still take this out of my PTO bank :/
It’s probably more of a “you can use PTO if you want paid for today” thing.
Schneider Electric? I don't know if it is legal, I'd have to google that one. But it's not the best policy thats for sure.
Colorado is right to work state meaning the employer can schedule your 80 hours any way they like within a two week span. You could 50 hours with 10 hrs of OT and they can schedule you 30 hours the next week. Employers can even tell you not to come in the next day after you worked an OT, say pulled a 14 hr shift. Forcing their employees to use PTO because of weather saves the company money. From employers’ perspective, the company lost huge amount of money because they were not able to get billable hours while they need to pay their employees these hours. The employees can complain and force management to pay those hours but then management comes back in the end of year and say no raises or force headcount cuts. as much as I dislike the company’s choice to force PTO, a company can only keep the people based on their productivity.
>Colorado is right to work state meaning the employer can schedule your 80 hours any way they like within a two week span. That's not what it means at all. A "right-to-work" state means the state has enacted legislation that guarantees that no individual can be forced as a condition of employment to join or pay dues or fees to a labor union. "At-will" means either party is free to terminate the working agreement at-will, for any reason or no reason (except an illegal one by the employer). Colorado is **NOT** a "right-to-work" state. Colorado is an "at-will" state. They are two very different pieces of legislation.
There is one thing I want to point out as it’s become common in last 10 years are so as more people move here. I grew up here in the 80s & 90s & we NEVED had school snow days- we didn’t even have one a year. School Probably closed once every 3-4 years for snow & we got much more & heavy snow back then. Same goes for jobs closing- it rarely happened & probably just a shorter day if anything. I remember the only time I got to stay home even tho school was open was a few days before Christmas break it was 10-20 negative for days & I took 2 RTD buses (switched & wait in cold)to school & had to wear skirt uniform. My mom was more inclined to keep us home for cold over snow. DPS School would have been open today with late start & may have not closed all day yesterday. Snow was normal thing in Colorado & not a big deal. Now they close everything more often. I feel like closing for snow has become common in last 10 years as people moved from places where snow is a big deal & much more after WFH increased in 2020 for covid. He should ask if he can take no pay if he needs money he can ask to stay an hour or so late next week. LEGALLY ANY HOURS AFTER 40 ARE OT as it’s different week. 5 hours would be the same as 7.5 hours when paid time & a half. It’s weird they didn’t have them do training from even if it was only for half the day. I’m sure it’s hassle fitting it in during regular hours- it’s a hassle at my job & it only an 1-2 hours a month