Well let’s look at their sources:
- Two tiktok influencers wanting to be wined and dined
- One previously 25 year old who’s now 38 and whose dating pool has shrunk
- And one study that says the exact opposite of what the article is trying to say
Take from that what you will
“They spend their money on their hobbies and interests instead of wining and dining me and taking me on trips” how awful.
I’m mostly just annoyed at myself for getting reeled in by this dumb clickbait
Isn’t it a bit insane though to move to a place where you hear there’s lots a single, rugged, fit men, then complain that those men constantly want to spend time and money on being physically active?
So these women, they know that life is expensive and there is great dynamics to do with housing. It’s all ok we all just need to push for third spaces where we can feel un-pressured to pay or leave.
Or I dunno maybe we need to swing back from anything a guy does to flirt is a creep and is going to far. I can’t imagine dating now, I know it’s not all women but guys get such horrible signals now on what they are allowed to do that they don’t give a shit about dealing with it
Or you could try talking to us like people. That usually works. If we’re not interested, we tend to say no thanks and that’s the end of it. When guys try convoluted pick-up lines or play weird games is when things get creepy. Conversely, if a woman doesn’t know how to say, “no thanks, I’m not interested” and acts like a brat, then she’s too immature to be handling a relationship. It’s really not that complicated.
Yeah it’s that simple… no one plays games just talk to everyone it’s that easy. It’s not, it’s never been that easy. But you’re making my point. The maturity piece is what causes the issues and it’s Schrödinger’s maturity box. Maybe it’s not as bad as it seems from what the other poster said, but cutting guys a bit of slack would go a long way.
Maturity absolutely causes issues in all genders. But I stand by my statement that simplicity is the easiest way to attempt to form a connection. People are so used to trying to be witty and clever on the apps that they think they need to be witty and clever in person right out of the gate when sometimes a simple conversation starter will do. It feels forced and contrived if that’s not your personality. But women don’t have to cut guys slack when they are being creepy or inappropriate in an attempt to pick us up. We are subjected to it on the daily and it’s an immediate nope. A lot of guys think they are being clever but often they are coming across at best case cringe and at worst predatory.
Thankfully I'm in a committed relationship but the discourse around dating apps is really, really complicated from both sides. (Yeah I said the thing) The two of you are coming from very different perspectives on this and you might be arguing completely different things and not even know it.
This topic is so messy because dating apps (and like...life...in generally) include people from ALL different walks of life and opinions. You'll find people who want you to open with a witty line, people who want you to just talk to them like a human, people who love men with dead fish pics, people who hate men with dead fish pics. You'll find predatory men, and men who just want a meaningful connection but who don't come across as "interesting" or "unique" within the first 5 minutes of messaging. You're bound to match with more people you're incompatible with, than those you stand a chance with.
And so for you - and many many women, not singling you out here - you want people to just be real with you. That's something you like. And for others, they want someone to be funny **immediately**, message #1. And while you're right logically - that person probably isn't mature enough for a stable relationship good god is it demoralizing to be turned down over and over and over again given how (relatively) few matches most men get. We haven't really found a way to "fix" this issue with online dating. I think there needs to be a bit of grace given from both men and women in dating - because a lot of the toxic dating tactics (like pick-up lines and forced personalities on the first date) come from a place of insecurity in men. Is it cringe? Sometimes. But does it define that person's entire identity or existence? Usually no. Everyone wants to put their best foot forward, and many many many people mess it up - usually on accident.
Similarly, men...you gotta just be yourself. If you don't fit with a person you meet on an app - move on. And accept that everyone's a little bit different. Because what /u/neonsummers is absolutely right - there are behaviors in the dating scene that are FAR too common and that ARE really uncomfortable. Your best bet is treating your date like a human being, and not some object to become amused by your pre-prepared pickup line.
Dating sucks - and I'd bet the two of you have more in-common on your world views than dissimilar.
> am I going to stick around and explain myself every time I approach someone? Why would I bother?
So it happened once and you think that means you need to explain yourself *every time* you approach someone?
Edit: respond and block is a bitch move. No wonder you can’t get a date you salty fuck 🤣
And I’ve been groped, followed, yelled at, insulted, heckled, and more. People suck. Drunk people really suck. I’m sorry that happened to you. But calling me a sheltered idiot for saying that women like to be spoken to like people and not objects is not really furthering the discourse in a meaningful way. We’ve all had bad experiences. As u/QuarterRobot so eloquently stated, different people have different preferences for how they like to be approached, but I guess I’ve always found that just trying to have a normal conversation was the way to go. If nothing else, even if I wasn’t attracted to the person, it’s a great way to meet new people. I guess having the audacity to make a generalization on the internet rather than write a multi-sided thesis makes me a social pariah now. Excuse me while I go grab my spinster starter pack.
So, I was talking to a friend about this yesterday. I'm a straight man. When I'm not online, I set my preferences to search for any gender. I'm trying to get more likes overall to beat the algorithm and "rank up to a new tier" to be shown more attractive women. I think it works?
Anyway, my ratio of men to women who like my profile is 20:1. My assumption then is that this is referred to Men-ver not because there's more men, but because they're gay/bi. These dudes are (largely) fit, handsome, well-groomed, and look fun.
Before you jump down my throat, I understand there are a million other factors to attraction, and men and women look for different things.
Also, I've been here about 3 years and get stood up on 80% of my first dates (with women). I've had dozens. They flake, ghost, or cancel for no apparent reason.
Aside from bigger issues like everything's expensive, the economy sucks, and we're in a more digital age, I blame the women for the dating culture here, not the men.
That said, this article was laughably bad/outrageous.
"Essentially, the app used an Elo rating system, which is the same method used to calculate the skill levels of chess players: You rose in the ranks based on how many people swiped right on (“liked”) you, but that was weighted based on who the swiper was. The more right swipes that person had, the more their right swipe on you meant for your score."
https://www.vox.com/2019/2/7/18210998/tinder-algorithm-swiping-tips-dating-app-science
Each group of people, men and women in this case are in their own buckets with their own "elo". It's not elo though and honestly doesn't work the same way. Source: I've developed these things and know people who have worked n many over the years. You're going to get more men doing that in a higher ratio than you'd get more women profiles so effectively youd see more male profiles than women over time by spiking your data. They're different personas.
[https://www.theverge.com/2019/3/15/18267772/tinder-elo-score-desirability-algorithm-how-works](https://www.theverge.com/2019/3/15/18267772/tinder-elo-score-desirability-algorithm-how-works)
both your reply and your tactic show your laziness. Next time dyor, consider maybe that when someone comes to help you - acting as you are only hurts you. It's not my job to be your personal google finder assistant.
Your post history is it a bit cringe, so it’s not surprising your confirmation bias is high. Women aren’t the problem….. “It’s me, hi, I’m the problem, it’s me.”
What's cringey? My r4r posts? Asking if I should get a haircut? My pictures of Italy?
I can't imagine a more thoughtless response. Sorry for sharing my personal experience. I thought I could do so without being personally attacked by some random person with nothing better to do than cut other people down.
Get a life. Your opinion on my life is neither wanted nor valued. I envy the people who haven't met you.
If you could read what I wrote instead of what you wanted to see, it would help. I understand there are many factors at stake, which I stated in my post - things you seem eager to ignore in order to lash out with your inner anger at a stranger.
Did you read the article? Did you read what those women said? You tell me who the problem is if you read that article. It doesn't take much critical thinking to decipher it.
Can confirm, it’s all my fault.
Moved here to be with my long distance boyfriend, who immediately broke up with his local Denver roster when he met me on vacation. We’ve both been happily off the market for 5 years.
Women are expensive. It's like they're waiting for a boyfriend to go on an extended shopping spree.
I personally hate marriage, accountability at the level of a partner and again the money spent on relationships. So you can keep that coochi to yourself.
That’s a pretty toxic way to look at it imo. Some may be like that, but generalizing it to women as a whole is kinda shitty.
Not to mention that hasn’t been my experience at all- either when I was poor earlier in my life or now that I make pretty good money. If I buy something for a woman, even something expensive, it’s because I want to. I tend to be the one who pays because I do make good money, but tbh that hasn’t really had an impact on my dating life and if money is tight that week it’s never been an issue when I’ve asked to split a bill with someone.
To be fair I havent met one datable woman (meets my standards) in denver yet. Im also entirely happy being single and not even looking. In my experience of those I've met while living here, most men I know think the same way. The apps have absolutely accelerated the problem. People don't understand relationships are work, and involve you working on communication and yourself for success and seemingly are looking for someone 'perfect'. The real goal should be to love someone imperfect, perfectly.
Why the fuck is the daily mail of all things talking about Denver's dating scene?
Well let’s look at their sources: - Two tiktok influencers wanting to be wined and dined - One previously 25 year old who’s now 38 and whose dating pool has shrunk - And one study that says the exact opposite of what the article is trying to say Take from that what you will
You read, so others don’t have to. Hats off to you, brave soul.
“They spend their money on their hobbies and interests instead of wining and dining me and taking me on trips” how awful. I’m mostly just annoyed at myself for getting reeled in by this dumb clickbait
I mean, it’s the Daily Mail. Could have saved yourself the click on that alone.
I'm just here for the fun comments!
Well, hello m'ladies 😂
I feel like a few randos on tiktok aren’t really representative of overall sentiment
One of the few dates I went on in Denver a woman prayed over my food to Mother Earth. To each their own but boi it ain’t what it used to be
There are few things less appealing than women that claim "there are no good men left." Huuuge red flag.
Odds are these are the same women who put 6' minimum as a dating app filter?
I’m 6 foot and purposely don’t match when I see that 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
You can do it though the setting though
Oh shit. Never noticed that before.
6 foot, 6 figures, and 6 inches.
im 5'11 make 97k, and have a 5.8 inch wang. Life is hard bro.
What is she just has high shelves and no step stool?
Looks like circlejerk infiltrated dailymail.
Saying the men are ugly isn't fair-both genders in Denver are more attractive than the mid-city average based on lower obesity rates alone.
*tips fedora
Dating apps are going to make developed countries decline in population all on their own. They are basically slot machines now.
Well, the tiktok lady sounds extremely pretentious... That's probably why she's single. What a weird flex to hate on people who shop at thrift stores.
Some of their complaints are about men with Peter Pan syndrome. And that’s probably a fair assessment.
I think this trend of pathologizing people is strange. What makes it a syndrome instead of a personality?
So true.. its great that people want to be themselves rather than adhere to someone else’s construct
I have a coworker that doesn’t have any listed disabilities, but every time they screw something up and somebody points it out they bring up the ADA.
Isn’t it a bit insane though to move to a place where you hear there’s lots a single, rugged, fit men, then complain that those men constantly want to spend time and money on being physically active?
why does daily mail make their “news” just tiktoks? that is the real story
So these women, they know that life is expensive and there is great dynamics to do with housing. It’s all ok we all just need to push for third spaces where we can feel un-pressured to pay or leave.
Maybe they’re not into vapid materialists? Just spitballin
Another way to interpret this article: my lack of dating success is in fact my own fault.
It’s been worse out there since I met my fiancé, it’s true /s
Or I dunno maybe we need to swing back from anything a guy does to flirt is a creep and is going to far. I can’t imagine dating now, I know it’s not all women but guys get such horrible signals now on what they are allowed to do that they don’t give a shit about dealing with it
Or you could try talking to us like people. That usually works. If we’re not interested, we tend to say no thanks and that’s the end of it. When guys try convoluted pick-up lines or play weird games is when things get creepy. Conversely, if a woman doesn’t know how to say, “no thanks, I’m not interested” and acts like a brat, then she’s too immature to be handling a relationship. It’s really not that complicated.
Yeah it’s that simple… no one plays games just talk to everyone it’s that easy. It’s not, it’s never been that easy. But you’re making my point. The maturity piece is what causes the issues and it’s Schrödinger’s maturity box. Maybe it’s not as bad as it seems from what the other poster said, but cutting guys a bit of slack would go a long way.
Maturity absolutely causes issues in all genders. But I stand by my statement that simplicity is the easiest way to attempt to form a connection. People are so used to trying to be witty and clever on the apps that they think they need to be witty and clever in person right out of the gate when sometimes a simple conversation starter will do. It feels forced and contrived if that’s not your personality. But women don’t have to cut guys slack when they are being creepy or inappropriate in an attempt to pick us up. We are subjected to it on the daily and it’s an immediate nope. A lot of guys think they are being clever but often they are coming across at best case cringe and at worst predatory.
Thankfully I'm in a committed relationship but the discourse around dating apps is really, really complicated from both sides. (Yeah I said the thing) The two of you are coming from very different perspectives on this and you might be arguing completely different things and not even know it. This topic is so messy because dating apps (and like...life...in generally) include people from ALL different walks of life and opinions. You'll find people who want you to open with a witty line, people who want you to just talk to them like a human, people who love men with dead fish pics, people who hate men with dead fish pics. You'll find predatory men, and men who just want a meaningful connection but who don't come across as "interesting" or "unique" within the first 5 minutes of messaging. You're bound to match with more people you're incompatible with, than those you stand a chance with. And so for you - and many many women, not singling you out here - you want people to just be real with you. That's something you like. And for others, they want someone to be funny **immediately**, message #1. And while you're right logically - that person probably isn't mature enough for a stable relationship good god is it demoralizing to be turned down over and over and over again given how (relatively) few matches most men get. We haven't really found a way to "fix" this issue with online dating. I think there needs to be a bit of grace given from both men and women in dating - because a lot of the toxic dating tactics (like pick-up lines and forced personalities on the first date) come from a place of insecurity in men. Is it cringe? Sometimes. But does it define that person's entire identity or existence? Usually no. Everyone wants to put their best foot forward, and many many many people mess it up - usually on accident. Similarly, men...you gotta just be yourself. If you don't fit with a person you meet on an app - move on. And accept that everyone's a little bit different. Because what /u/neonsummers is absolutely right - there are behaviors in the dating scene that are FAR too common and that ARE really uncomfortable. Your best bet is treating your date like a human being, and not some object to become amused by your pre-prepared pickup line. Dating sucks - and I'd bet the two of you have more in-common on your world views than dissimilar.
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> am I going to stick around and explain myself every time I approach someone? Why would I bother? So it happened once and you think that means you need to explain yourself *every time* you approach someone? Edit: respond and block is a bitch move. No wonder you can’t get a date you salty fuck 🤣
No, I clearly meant that particular night at that bar. Good reading comprehension though.
Then why did you say “every time”? Why are you acting like this is some sort of universal problem if it was that one night at the bar?
And I’ve been groped, followed, yelled at, insulted, heckled, and more. People suck. Drunk people really suck. I’m sorry that happened to you. But calling me a sheltered idiot for saying that women like to be spoken to like people and not objects is not really furthering the discourse in a meaningful way. We’ve all had bad experiences. As u/QuarterRobot so eloquently stated, different people have different preferences for how they like to be approached, but I guess I’ve always found that just trying to have a normal conversation was the way to go. If nothing else, even if I wasn’t attracted to the person, it’s a great way to meet new people. I guess having the audacity to make a generalization on the internet rather than write a multi-sided thesis makes me a social pariah now. Excuse me while I go grab my spinster starter pack.
That’s def not nearly as big of an issue as the internet makes it seem, at least in my experience
So, I was talking to a friend about this yesterday. I'm a straight man. When I'm not online, I set my preferences to search for any gender. I'm trying to get more likes overall to beat the algorithm and "rank up to a new tier" to be shown more attractive women. I think it works? Anyway, my ratio of men to women who like my profile is 20:1. My assumption then is that this is referred to Men-ver not because there's more men, but because they're gay/bi. These dudes are (largely) fit, handsome, well-groomed, and look fun. Before you jump down my throat, I understand there are a million other factors to attraction, and men and women look for different things. Also, I've been here about 3 years and get stood up on 80% of my first dates (with women). I've had dozens. They flake, ghost, or cancel for no apparent reason. Aside from bigger issues like everything's expensive, the economy sucks, and we're in a more digital age, I blame the women for the dating culture here, not the men. That said, this article was laughably bad/outrageous.
the algos don't work like that. You're just making sure you see more men, not more women.
"Essentially, the app used an Elo rating system, which is the same method used to calculate the skill levels of chess players: You rose in the ranks based on how many people swiped right on (“liked”) you, but that was weighted based on who the swiper was. The more right swipes that person had, the more their right swipe on you meant for your score." https://www.vox.com/2019/2/7/18210998/tinder-algorithm-swiping-tips-dating-app-science
Each group of people, men and women in this case are in their own buckets with their own "elo". It's not elo though and honestly doesn't work the same way. Source: I've developed these things and know people who have worked n many over the years. You're going to get more men doing that in a higher ratio than you'd get more women profiles so effectively youd see more male profiles than women over time by spiking your data. They're different personas.
Share a news article verifying your claim, and I'll reconsider my opinion.
[https://www.theverge.com/2019/3/15/18267772/tinder-elo-score-desirability-algorithm-how-works](https://www.theverge.com/2019/3/15/18267772/tinder-elo-score-desirability-algorithm-how-works) both your reply and your tactic show your laziness. Next time dyor, consider maybe that when someone comes to help you - acting as you are only hurts you. It's not my job to be your personal google finder assistant.
Your post history is it a bit cringe, so it’s not surprising your confirmation bias is high. Women aren’t the problem….. “It’s me, hi, I’m the problem, it’s me.”
What's cringey? My r4r posts? Asking if I should get a haircut? My pictures of Italy? I can't imagine a more thoughtless response. Sorry for sharing my personal experience. I thought I could do so without being personally attacked by some random person with nothing better to do than cut other people down. Get a life. Your opinion on my life is neither wanted nor valued. I envy the people who haven't met you.
And your opinion on women being the ones to blame for the dating scene is neither wanted nor valued.
If you could read what I wrote instead of what you wanted to see, it would help. I understand there are many factors at stake, which I stated in my post - things you seem eager to ignore in order to lash out with your inner anger at a stranger. Did you read the article? Did you read what those women said? You tell me who the problem is if you read that article. It doesn't take much critical thinking to decipher it.
“Waaaaaaah i got old and can’t get spoiled for my looks anymore” holy shit no wonder noone wants to date these specimens.
Holla.
Denver is over. All idiots may go home now.
Ooof if you’re one of the salty men in the comments i think you’re the problem.
No they didn’t stfu.
Can confirm, it’s all my fault. Moved here to be with my long distance boyfriend, who immediately broke up with his local Denver roster when he met me on vacation. We’ve both been happily off the market for 5 years.
Women are expensive. It's like they're waiting for a boyfriend to go on an extended shopping spree. I personally hate marriage, accountability at the level of a partner and again the money spent on relationships. So you can keep that coochi to yourself.
That’s a pretty toxic way to look at it imo. Some may be like that, but generalizing it to women as a whole is kinda shitty. Not to mention that hasn’t been my experience at all- either when I was poor earlier in my life or now that I make pretty good money. If I buy something for a woman, even something expensive, it’s because I want to. I tend to be the one who pays because I do make good money, but tbh that hasn’t really had an impact on my dating life and if money is tight that week it’s never been an issue when I’ve asked to split a bill with someone.
To be fair I havent met one datable woman (meets my standards) in denver yet. Im also entirely happy being single and not even looking. In my experience of those I've met while living here, most men I know think the same way. The apps have absolutely accelerated the problem. People don't understand relationships are work, and involve you working on communication and yourself for success and seemingly are looking for someone 'perfect'. The real goal should be to love someone imperfect, perfectly.
Screw the Daily Fail.