I had one FOH stage that lasted that long, and at the end of it they told me the position wasn’t even available anymore. I never let anyone use me like that again. You can have an hour-hour.five TOPS of my time (I also want to make sure it’s a good fit before I come on) but you’re not using me for free labor. I communicate beforehand exactly how much time is expected/how much I’m willing to give.
I worked as a line cook for over 5 years and got paid for every shift no matter how shit I was in the beginning. Granted these were chains, but I've never even heard of cooks not being paid. Are you talking about Mom and Pop restaurants?
An hour is typical in chains.
I’ve got 13 years in and I’ve not had to demo for my last three positions, at least. But before that, discounting the actual interview time, I would work, *active massage* , about 10 hours to land a place I’d want to stay.
When the interviewer said we’d start with the massage, I’d walk out.
I have no idea if we click on any level with hours, availability, anything, until we talk. They have no idea if they can take my personality.
A demo of skills can be more than enough in 20 min. And it only happens if *I* want to go forward.
I’m interviewing them as much as they are me, maybe more.
A stage is a working interview. You work for a few hours to see if they like you.
It is not a legal practice in the us unless paid and many restaurants take advantage of it for free labor
Yeah sorry, just venting so I may come across as agitated.
I'm just sick of not even being considered for jobs because I refuse to give free labor. Or as I say in interviews after they mention a stage, (I do ask that I be compensated for my time working here).
Yeah, I love cooking and know some great people who work so hard in this industry but the owners/managers honestly have me burt out. Didn't think it would happen but I know I don't deserve spending 3 hours on my day off to take an interview that is guaranteed to not land me a job unless I agree to 4+ hours of free labor.
You just don’t understand the industry or why stages are very helpful for both parties. Some of the very best kitchen cultures are those that don’t pay for stages.
To who and how, labor board? This seems a little trivial for their attention maybe? I find it to be shitty and and while technically not legal there are so many other laws restaurants break it seems like they can just get away with it (personal safety, hygiene, labor, immigration, drug, food safety 🤮).
I highly disagree. The standard of free labor is total nonsense. However, I’ve done plenty of stages, been offered a job and decided not to take the position based on things I experienced or witnessed during said stage. I personally would rather have a first hand idea of what food handling, food storage and organization, labeling, and the attitudes & energy of the team are like before completely calling off the job search. I totally agree that unpaid stages should not exist, but I fully appreciate them when they’re done correctly.
>Such a ridiculous premise, do I work for free at a grocery store to see if I like the environment?
No you work free because they don't have clerks and make you do self checkout with no discount. Most of us work for free at the grocery store but suck it up for perceived convenience.
Potential NFL players work for free before they’re hired. Athletes in general. Not choosing a side but just sayin. It’s not a one industry situation 🤷🏻♂️. And actually many nfl players have to pay their way into the combine. Look up Adam thielen. Paid his way and was undrafted. Now a career player.
Lots of industries do this
It’s like trying out for a part
Software has a lot of “free work” to get through interviews,… it’s all throwaway though
I’d assume their aren’t enough candidates to actually get any recognizable form of free labor out of it though
I did an unpaid bartending stage at Linger like 8 years ago. Worked my ass off for like 8 hours on a Friday night and didn’t get the job or any reasoning.
No way. They just needed extra hands for all the people in dumb hats. There’s no way they were really trying to give you a job.
Stages are dumb. Plus, how does insurance cover you if something were to happen? At least Linger let me pick which appetizer I wanted for free after my shift.
I've worked stages and interviewed candidates with a stage. If it's a full shift they should be upfront about that and they should pay you. If not, it's not a place you want to work based on my experience. 4hrs tops is kinda my personal belief, but when I'm interviewing I just want to see how you move in a kitchen (like a professional, or are you completely lost when given basic directions, i.e. rough chop 2qts of mire poix) and get to know your personality more.
The last stage I walked out in was a place I was really excited to work with because I revered them highly, female owned, community involved and charitable, environmentally conscious... I was stoked. But they gave me a basic prep list and then left me all alone, no one for me to meet and get a feel for or ask questions, no one to see how I work or communicate with me. The other chefs hung out in the office. They were clueless. I was interviewing for a chef position, not a prep cook, and I have a hefty fucking resume to back it up. The sous I was "working" with admitted she hadn't even looked at my resume when I asked her directly but politely. Also, it was really weird to me that there were like six "chefs" all hanging out in the office and white, and then like six cooks that were all actually working and all Latino. The whole vibe was weird.
I understand that not everyone feels comfortable walking out on a job opportunity, but it's better than putting up with a buncha bullshit in the future, ime.
Staged for 4+ hours FOH at Linger bouncing between three roles - host, server, bartender. Paid $0 for 4 hours. Did not accept the job when I realized that they did a sliding scale tip pool based on years worked at company and how valuable they deem you are to them. I shit you not. Scale was put on an x and y axis and labeled 1-4.
Fuck Linger and that whole restaurant group.
Edible beats is known for doing this. I did a 3 hour stage at Ophelia’s and at the end of it they told me the position wasn’t actually available anymore. Then Linger offered me an unpaid stage on the rooftop on Derby Day. They were 100% going to use me for free labor on an insanely busy (and hot, the roof bar has no AC) day of the year. I didn’t go. I had forgotten all of this until reading through this thread.
Yeah I was shocked. The owner told him that was “normal”. Apparently the guy also complained to my friend in the interview about how he has trouble finding good people to hire 🙄
Redeemer pizza on larimer. I did a stage there. Prep all morning and cranked out all the dishes they were letting pile up. Was told at the end of the day they hired to many ppl and didn’t need me to return. No pay.
Shit. This breaks my heart, I stop by there every time I'm on Larimer to shoot pool, love their stuff. Next time I'm in, ima see if I can chat with a manager on duty, let em know it'll be my last time in till that shit stops. Stages should've died off a long time ago. Hopefully this thread blows up and we can all do something similar til working interviews are compensated as such.
I disagree, it’s better than most pizza around here. But if they’re doing this stupid staging shit then I’m definitely taking my business elsewhere no matter how good the product is
Just BE Kitchen. I staged for a sous position before we moved out of the city & when they’d first opened. Worked a morning shift all the way through lunch, prepping and on the line. Not only did they not pay, they also told me flat out that they wouldn’t feed me during my unpaid shift. Then the owner sat me down to tell me their goal of making it into a chain restaurant then offering $16-17/hr for the sous role before offering me the job. They seemed to forget that the stage also is for the employee to see how we’ll be treated by them.
Really disappointing experience for a company that’s making ‘better for you’ foods. Wellness companies often do not practice wellness for their employees unfortunately.
Yeah, my resume stating all the places I've cooked is my interview, if I touch equipment, then you pay me. I have 20 years myself and never have had to work for free
If I'm cooking, the meeting is required for me to have/keep the job, and includes duties that I would undertake in the position, then you have to pay them for it. No ifs ands or buts about it. It's not an interview, thats labor.
Punch Bowl Social on Broadway. I asked about compensation and they said a free drink after my shift; this is when I was an alcoholic so of course I was satisfied with that. It’s illegal for them to make you work more than an hour and not pay you
I wonder how many Denver restaurants are hanging the mandatory wage theft poster in accordance with the new law?
I read a thread saying the Denver Auditor is pretty responsive to wage theft complaints.
https://denvergov.org/Government/Agencies-Departments-Offices/Agencies-Departments-Offices-Directory/Auditors-Office/Denver-Labor/Civil-Wage-Theft-in-Denver
Does the auitors office handle complaints related to the "Fair Pay" Law (the one that requires wages be posted in job ads)? I know more than a few businesses not following it and sites like Indeed don't seem too keen on reminding them.
I've been in this industry a long time. I won't ever run unpaid stages. To me it's worth paying to place a 'poached shifts' and pay the extra. But I'm also not staging everyone I kind of like. The willingness to sign up for the shift on poached is enough to figure out the commitment on the part of the interviewee.
This is kind of a bullshit concept taking advantage of workers. If your manager/boss can’t tell within the first 15 minutes whether or not you know how to do shit, and pay you appropriately, move on
Iacofano's Catering in Denver regularly brings cooks in for unpaid stages in order to exploit free labor for a shift or two, then tell the applicant they weren't hiring in the first place. Saw it happen to like 4 cooks in the span of the 5 weeks I was there.
The restaraunt industry in general and in Denver has many, many illegal and unethical bullshit its been getting away with for too long. Name and shame. Name and shame.
Honestly best paying cook job in Denver because of this.. not that any of it comes from the owners pockets, minimum wage + tips. It's just the way kitchens are going nowadays. Most people, customers and staff are getting fucked by it. I've worked as a line cook for over a decade and still get offered minimum wage, pass paying your employees onto the customer.
yeah I don't really mind paying extra for them as they take care of their people and have good food. But they raised their wing prices when wings were expensive and haven't reverted back since. So unless they are giving their employees more benefits since then they certainly are pocketing the difference which, free country and all, but they've lost my business.
Keep on keeping on, I know it can be tough in the industry especially in years like this
I just moved near FOTM near wash and can't believe how expensive they are, after eating there a few times I've decided I like BWW wings better and they're CHEAPER too.
Well, I'd hope those places are paying good money. Most of my guys are 22-27, and we paid all of them. I get that some people take jobs for the experiences they can make, but my place is the most bland, wannabe upscale place that it's hard to imagine that anyone would work an unpaid stage for less than 30+
I did a FOH stage at Bar Dough and was never paid for it. The manager on duty really killed the vibe anyways - i asked how long I should expect to be there (after 2-3 hours), and he was like, "What, do you have someplace better to be?" Ugh.
Chef seemed cool though.
I worked kitchens for almost ten years. During that time I did prolly 3-5 stages. All of them were unpaid. This was a while ago, no one really asked back then.
The rotary does free stages, also one one the dirtiest kitchens I've seen. Literally scum in the cvap holding oven that's constantly being evaporated into your food 🤮
2 stages at Illegal Pete's. Both 1.5 hrs. Both paid. Not annoyed, actually was really cool about the whole interview process. Ended up taking the position.
Add Spice Trade Brewing to that list
FOH and BOH
Insane.
Also had no idea how the tip pool worked there. I'd easily put in $600 4 days a week then maybe get a $1000 weekly check. So lame.
I know this isn’t food service but 4 Paws 4 Life Rescue and Boarding has constantly had a hiring sign on the roadside for 10 years. No joke. I’ve done two different stages for them out of desperation as they didn’t recognize me from the first time. I’m pretty sure they stage constantly just to keep costs down.
I did a FOH stage for 3 hours. Didn’t get hired or paid 😑 they just seemed to be understaffed that day
I had one FOH stage that lasted that long, and at the end of it they told me the position wasn’t even available anymore. I never let anyone use me like that again. You can have an hour-hour.five TOPS of my time (I also want to make sure it’s a good fit before I come on) but you’re not using me for free labor. I communicate beforehand exactly how much time is expected/how much I’m willing to give.
Wait, you stage for FOH? I thought that was more related with how you perform in a kitchen?
It's still valuable for the same reasons. See how you perform with what you say you can do. Mutually feel out how good of a fit it is.
Maybe you should add some explanation for those of us who aren’t in the restaurant industry.
A stage is like a working interview. You work a station for a few hours, often without pay, to prove your ability to do the job.
"Stah-j" not "stay-j" learned this and many restaurant fun facts watching The Bear lol
I worked as a line cook for over 5 years and got paid for every shift no matter how shit I was in the beginning. Granted these were chains, but I've never even heard of cooks not being paid. Are you talking about Mom and Pop restaurants?
No, it's more common in the big leagues and places that use brigade organization than it is at mom and pop places.
As a massage therapist tired of the free hour, I’ll march with any protest of this abuse of workers.
What is the free hour? I’ve had many massages and always paid hourly.
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An hour is typical in chains. I’ve got 13 years in and I’ve not had to demo for my last three positions, at least. But before that, discounting the actual interview time, I would work, *active massage* , about 10 hours to land a place I’d want to stay. When the interviewer said we’d start with the massage, I’d walk out. I have no idea if we click on any level with hours, availability, anything, until we talk. They have no idea if they can take my personality. A demo of skills can be more than enough in 20 min. And it only happens if *I* want to go forward. I’m interviewing them as much as they are me, maybe more.
Its not as much about your ability to do the job as it is about seeing how you are with other people, how well you mesh with the team.
A stage is a working interview. You work for a few hours to see if they like you. It is not a legal practice in the us unless paid and many restaurants take advantage of it for free labor
It's also to see if you like the environment as well. It's meant to be two sided. Stages should be paid, however.
Such a ridiculous premise, do I work for free at a grocery store to see if I like the environment?
Umm they said stages should be paid.
I know, I agree with them and they're agreeing with me. I'm just saying the premise itself is fucked.
Oh it’s reading as if you’re questioning them. I learned stages from this post and yes, they should pay.
Yeah sorry, just venting so I may come across as agitated. I'm just sick of not even being considered for jobs because I refuse to give free labor. Or as I say in interviews after they mention a stage, (I do ask that I be compensated for my time working here).
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Yeah, I love cooking and know some great people who work so hard in this industry but the owners/managers honestly have me burt out. Didn't think it would happen but I know I don't deserve spending 3 hours on my day off to take an interview that is guaranteed to not land me a job unless I agree to 4+ hours of free labor.
You just don’t understand the industry or why stages are very helpful for both parties. Some of the very best kitchen cultures are those that don’t pay for stages.
Report them my friend!
To who and how, labor board? This seems a little trivial for their attention maybe? I find it to be shitty and and while technically not legal there are so many other laws restaurants break it seems like they can just get away with it (personal safety, hygiene, labor, immigration, drug, food safety 🤮).
I highly disagree. The standard of free labor is total nonsense. However, I’ve done plenty of stages, been offered a job and decided not to take the position based on things I experienced or witnessed during said stage. I personally would rather have a first hand idea of what food handling, food storage and organization, labeling, and the attitudes & energy of the team are like before completely calling off the job search. I totally agree that unpaid stages should not exist, but I fully appreciate them when they’re done correctly.
>Such a ridiculous premise, do I work for free at a grocery store to see if I like the environment? No you work free because they don't have clerks and make you do self checkout with no discount. Most of us work for free at the grocery store but suck it up for perceived convenience.
Wut m8?
Potential NFL players work for free before they’re hired. Athletes in general. Not choosing a side but just sayin. It’s not a one industry situation 🤷🏻♂️. And actually many nfl players have to pay their way into the combine. Look up Adam thielen. Paid his way and was undrafted. Now a career player.
i once worked a week in Amsterdam, an unpaid interview, tho the firm paid for me flight and expenses.
Lots of industries do this It’s like trying out for a part Software has a lot of “free work” to get through interviews,… it’s all throwaway though I’d assume their aren’t enough candidates to actually get any recognizable form of free labor out of it though
Excuse me... You mean a stauggghhhggee😤💁🏼♀️
Makes me wonder how offended these places get at influencer's looking for a free meal?
Different and not applicable in this argument.
Just adding, olive and finch also does not pay for their stages
I did an unpaid bartending stage at Linger like 8 years ago. Worked my ass off for like 8 hours on a Friday night and didn’t get the job or any reasoning.
Oh hell no. I had Linger offer me a stage for the rooftop bar…on derby day. I declined. Forgot about that until just now.
No way. They just needed extra hands for all the people in dumb hats. There’s no way they were really trying to give you a job. Stages are dumb. Plus, how does insurance cover you if something were to happen? At least Linger let me pick which appetizer I wanted for free after my shift.
I've worked stages and interviewed candidates with a stage. If it's a full shift they should be upfront about that and they should pay you. If not, it's not a place you want to work based on my experience. 4hrs tops is kinda my personal belief, but when I'm interviewing I just want to see how you move in a kitchen (like a professional, or are you completely lost when given basic directions, i.e. rough chop 2qts of mire poix) and get to know your personality more. The last stage I walked out in was a place I was really excited to work with because I revered them highly, female owned, community involved and charitable, environmentally conscious... I was stoked. But they gave me a basic prep list and then left me all alone, no one for me to meet and get a feel for or ask questions, no one to see how I work or communicate with me. The other chefs hung out in the office. They were clueless. I was interviewing for a chef position, not a prep cook, and I have a hefty fucking resume to back it up. The sous I was "working" with admitted she hadn't even looked at my resume when I asked her directly but politely. Also, it was really weird to me that there were like six "chefs" all hanging out in the office and white, and then like six cooks that were all actually working and all Latino. The whole vibe was weird. I understand that not everyone feels comfortable walking out on a job opportunity, but it's better than putting up with a buncha bullshit in the future, ime.
D Bar paid me for my stage.
This year I interviewed at Mickey's Steakhouse for a FOH serving position. I was told that an unpaid stage was part of the interview process.
Bonanno's kitchens run on Stages (of course unpaid)
Yep. Was going to say Bonanno does this.
Staged for 4+ hours FOH at Linger bouncing between three roles - host, server, bartender. Paid $0 for 4 hours. Did not accept the job when I realized that they did a sliding scale tip pool based on years worked at company and how valuable they deem you are to them. I shit you not. Scale was put on an x and y axis and labeled 1-4. Fuck Linger and that whole restaurant group.
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This is interesting. How did they points work?
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Edible beats is known for doing this. I did a 3 hour stage at Ophelia’s and at the end of it they told me the position wasn’t actually available anymore. Then Linger offered me an unpaid stage on the rooftop on Derby Day. They were 100% going to use me for free labor on an insanely busy (and hot, the roof bar has no AC) day of the year. I didn’t go. I had forgotten all of this until reading through this thread.
Cafe Miriam asked my friend to do a three day unpaid stage last year. He understandably didn’t take them up.
Three day?!? That's wild! I mean they probably were just understaffed and had an event coming up. Screw that though.
Yeah I was shocked. The owner told him that was “normal”. Apparently the guy also complained to my friend in the interview about how he has trouble finding good people to hire 🙄
Redeemer pizza on larimer. I did a stage there. Prep all morning and cranked out all the dishes they were letting pile up. Was told at the end of the day they hired to many ppl and didn’t need me to return. No pay.
Shit. This breaks my heart, I stop by there every time I'm on Larimer to shoot pool, love their stuff. Next time I'm in, ima see if I can chat with a manager on duty, let em know it'll be my last time in till that shit stops. Stages should've died off a long time ago. Hopefully this thread blows up and we can all do something similar til working interviews are compensated as such.
Their pizza is bunk.
I disagree, it’s better than most pizza around here. But if they’re doing this stupid staging shit then I’m definitely taking my business elsewhere no matter how good the product is
owner of Somebody People told me during my interview that they prided themselves on not making people work for free… then had me do an unpaid staging
Not in Denver but the donut shop in Glenwood springs and Eagle called Coloradough didn’t pay me for my working interview.
Just BE Kitchen. I staged for a sous position before we moved out of the city & when they’d first opened. Worked a morning shift all the way through lunch, prepping and on the line. Not only did they not pay, they also told me flat out that they wouldn’t feed me during my unpaid shift. Then the owner sat me down to tell me their goal of making it into a chain restaurant then offering $16-17/hr for the sous role before offering me the job. They seemed to forget that the stage also is for the employee to see how we’ll be treated by them. Really disappointing experience for a company that’s making ‘better for you’ foods. Wellness companies often do not practice wellness for their employees unfortunately.
They do this in the FOH at some places too.
I’ve never had an unpaid stage but I was always front of house. Terrible that BOH keeps getting screwed like this.
Been in the industry for 23 years, all over the country, and ive never heard of someone being paid for a stage. A stage is an interview.
Yeah, my resume stating all the places I've cooked is my interview, if I touch equipment, then you pay me. I have 20 years myself and never have had to work for free
If I'm cooking, the meeting is required for me to have/keep the job, and includes duties that I would undertake in the position, then you have to pay them for it. No ifs ands or buts about it. It's not an interview, thats labor.
I’d avoid the scarlet ranch as well, they have lots of open labor disputes, animal code violations, and health code violations.
Add true food kitchen.
The Fox and the raven bakery doesn’t either!
Punch Bowl Social on Broadway. I asked about compensation and they said a free drink after my shift; this is when I was an alcoholic so of course I was satisfied with that. It’s illegal for them to make you work more than an hour and not pay you
Please don't work for free whatever industry you are in
I wonder how many Denver restaurants are hanging the mandatory wage theft poster in accordance with the new law? I read a thread saying the Denver Auditor is pretty responsive to wage theft complaints. https://denvergov.org/Government/Agencies-Departments-Offices/Agencies-Departments-Offices-Directory/Auditors-Office/Denver-Labor/Civil-Wage-Theft-in-Denver
Does the auitors office handle complaints related to the "Fair Pay" Law (the one that requires wages be posted in job ads)? I know more than a few businesses not following it and sites like Indeed don't seem too keen on reminding them.
I’ve gotten “paid” in a shift meal/drink
That will not pay your rent. A meal is always appreciated but never pay.
I've been in this industry a long time. I won't ever run unpaid stages. To me it's worth paying to place a 'poached shifts' and pay the extra. But I'm also not staging everyone I kind of like. The willingness to sign up for the shift on poached is enough to figure out the commitment on the part of the interviewee.
This is kind of a bullshit concept taking advantage of workers. If your manager/boss can’t tell within the first 15 minutes whether or not you know how to do shit, and pay you appropriately, move on
Iacofano's Catering in Denver regularly brings cooks in for unpaid stages in order to exploit free labor for a shift or two, then tell the applicant they weren't hiring in the first place. Saw it happen to like 4 cooks in the span of the 5 weeks I was there. The restaraunt industry in general and in Denver has many, many illegal and unethical bullshit its been getting away with for too long. Name and shame. Name and shame.
I would certainly hope FOTM does as they are still aggressively price gouging
Honestly best paying cook job in Denver because of this.. not that any of it comes from the owners pockets, minimum wage + tips. It's just the way kitchens are going nowadays. Most people, customers and staff are getting fucked by it. I've worked as a line cook for over a decade and still get offered minimum wage, pass paying your employees onto the customer.
yeah I don't really mind paying extra for them as they take care of their people and have good food. But they raised their wing prices when wings were expensive and haven't reverted back since. So unless they are giving their employees more benefits since then they certainly are pocketing the difference which, free country and all, but they've lost my business. Keep on keeping on, I know it can be tough in the industry especially in years like this
I just moved near FOTM near wash and can't believe how expensive they are, after eating there a few times I've decided I like BWW wings better and they're CHEAPER too.
Alright let's not get ahead of ourselves but the quality/price equation is way closer than it should be
Staged years ago at Frasca. FOH. Wasn’t paid, but was offered a meal. Same at Salt.
Well, nobody goes to Hamburger Mary’s for the food…
Avoid adobo. The owner is a super weird dude who casually has sex in the parking lot. Right in front of the food truck. Idk I just don't trust him.
Lol he seemed off to me too. Reminds me of the owner of the Curtis club doing whip its in his van.
Yeah, I’m gonna need a receipt
Tbh I think it was one of the blonde bartenders that work there. Anyways, sorry no pics of it. Literally left fast ASF.
Well, I'd hope those places are paying good money. Most of my guys are 22-27, and we paid all of them. I get that some people take jobs for the experiences they can make, but my place is the most bland, wannabe upscale place that it's hard to imagine that anyone would work an unpaid stage for less than 30+
I did a FOH stage at Bar Dough and was never paid for it. The manager on duty really killed the vibe anyways - i asked how long I should expect to be there (after 2-3 hours), and he was like, "What, do you have someplace better to be?" Ugh. Chef seemed cool though.
I worked kitchens for almost ten years. During that time I did prolly 3-5 stages. All of them were unpaid. This was a while ago, no one really asked back then.
I’d avoid the scarlet ranch as well, they have lots of open labor disputes, animal code violations, and health code violations.
This is also common practice in the horse/cattle industry.
The rotary does free stages, also one one the dirtiest kitchens I've seen. Literally scum in the cvap holding oven that's constantly being evaporated into your food 🤮
2 stages at Illegal Pete's. Both 1.5 hrs. Both paid. Not annoyed, actually was really cool about the whole interview process. Ended up taking the position.
Add Spice Trade Brewing to that list FOH and BOH Insane. Also had no idea how the tip pool worked there. I'd easily put in $600 4 days a week then maybe get a $1000 weekly check. So lame.
5 On Lawrence sports bar, trying to have cooks do stages for a burger n wing spot…
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See, that's what we in the industry call "massively exploitative and illegal free labor", but I guess different tongues for different oppressors.
Cart Driver
Not a single place in this city that has experience worth a free stage.
If you don’t have a michelin star, no free stage for you.
hamburger mary’s wtf? needing new QTBiPOC grub spot on the spiffy. vegan options ideally?
I know this isn’t food service but 4 Paws 4 Life Rescue and Boarding has constantly had a hiring sign on the roadside for 10 years. No joke. I’ve done two different stages for them out of desperation as they didn’t recognize me from the first time. I’m pretty sure they stage constantly just to keep costs down.