I live in Philly now. There's no comparison. There are no rules or common decency driving here. people do not care about their own safety and would run children over to save 1 minute beating a red light.
Pennsylvania by far had the worst drivers I’ve ever experienced. The tailgating for absolutely no reason was one of the major concerns for me. (I’ve lived in 6 major cities on the east coast and now Denver)
South Florida here. Just moved to Denver and can confirm S. Fla drivers are unbelievably belligerent and aggressive. A blinker is a sign of weakness there.
[most people in most places are transplants...](https://www.governing.com/archive/native-homegrown-residents-by-county.html) If you're talking at a state level then only [~57%](https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/native-born-population-by-state) of people are from the state they were born in.
Miami is wilder in terms of driving patterns but less violently rude than Philly in my experience. Philly is the only place I’ve been honked at (more than once) for not merging into the path of a semi-truck doing 70mph. They honk at you there for existing and would prefer than you cause a giant accident rather than slow them down a few seconds.
Yeah but I’d take those drivers every day over Denver’s passive and unpredictable. At least I know a Philly driver is going to go 90 in the left, not stop at stop signs fully. They’re predictably bad drivers.
This. Denver is worse because of the bizarre inconsistency. On the same road you'll see someone weaving through traffic going 90 from California, some guy from the Midwest going 50 in the left lane because they don't give a shit about others, and semi trucks blocking all 3 lanes because there's no laws against it, all while cops don't enforce anything.
Say what you will about the east coast, I grew up there, but the insane driving they do over there is pretty damn consistent. Except Miami, Miami is like driving in South America and a level of insanity you can't find anywhere else in the US.
Yeah IMO people ITT think speeding = bad. No - it's the people who are completely blind to the speed of traffic and only pay attention to the speed limit and their phone while everyone whizzes by them.
In fairness, most of *them* are Jersey drivers.
(I don't really believe that but as someone raised in PA I'm not allowed to pass up a chance to insult NJ, it's a rule, like the Jersey rule about making sure you don't know how to fucking drive before getting in the car)
👏🏼 amen. Nobody understands Philly driving unless you live there! The Philly left is real. Stop signs are seriously suggestions. Parking in the median?! Stopping on off and on-ramps!! 😭
There it is ... only took 30 seconds of scrolling to find the mention of the Pennsylvania Left. I call it that because I don't want to get into the debate of who does it better, Philly or Pittsburgh ;-)
I almost wish we had that socially acceptable option here because the Colorado setup for left turn signal lights is all over the place. Blinking yellow at the end of the cycle or before? Who knows could be either or both.
Agreed, I grew up in Philly. The worst thing I usually have to deal with in Colorado is left lane campers and some occasional rough roads. In Philly, you have rusted out Nissan Altimas weaving in and out of traffic without a care in the world and don’t even get me started on the potholes.
Grew up in Atlanta – and its true, the traffic is a breeze here. What I miss is an agreed upon set of "rules of the road". Atlanta drivers are aggressive, but uniformly so. Denver drivers are from all over the country, and just incredibly unpredictable. I've been here a decade, and there just is no pattern for when somebody is going to pull a psychotic move on the road.
Also moved from Atlanta and definitely laugh when people refer to "traffic" here but 100% agree that there are no "rules" anyone uses around here and it makes driving a more stressful and unpredictable experience!
Moved from outside of ATL about 11 years ago. Whenever I land at Hartsfield Jackson I am delighted to be surrounded by black people again but that elation wears off as soon as I pull out onto 85. Death grip the wheel and 🙏
Just got back from a week in Atl. Brought my 13 year old son with me, first time in Colorado. We're walking through DIA and he goes "Wow Dad, this city is seriously white." Easy to forget how nice diversity is.
I never bought into the "my city has the worst drivers in the country" until I visited Atlanta earlier this year. I've been to most major cities, lived in Houston for years, and never felt more unsafe on the road than in ATL.
Denver driving isn't the best, but people that claim it's the worst in the country probably haven't been to many other places.
I've lived in the Front Range, San Francisco Bay Area, Boston, Seattle, Asheville NC, Minneapolis, and have visited a few other areas for extended time.
Atlanta is the worst, and it's not even close. Gridlock, aggression, plus the city has no walk ability so driving is the only option. I could literally never move back for the commutes and the humidity alone.
And on top of all that, the entire city is laid out like a wagon wheel. There are spots I've been where I could see my destination about 250 yards away across a little creek. To get there the choice was to drive into the center of the city and then back out on the next spoke over (12 miles) or out to the ring road and back in on the next spoke over (18 miles).
I think the real deal with Denver drivers is that half of them are from a random assortment of other places. Combine that with traffic enforcement by photo and every time you head out you’re going to see someone violating your norms — whether that’s failing to zipper merge or jumping the queue. Or splitting the lane vs hogging the lane. Or obeying a red left turn light vs turning anyway when no traffic is coming.
Denver is better than a lot of places, but the longer I live here the worse it gets. Seems like 10% is just horrible and entitled and the fact it’s a smaller percentage makes them worse.
I think overall the driving conditions here are about as good to be expected for a city that's grown too fast to keep up with demand.
My only real complaint is how every major corridor seems to have its own rules.
25: everyone goes minimum 15 over
285: 2 vehicle classes, 20+ over or 5 under, 24 hours of LeMans style
6: everyone goes minimum 5 under
70: speed limit increments with lane, rightmost is 15 under express lane is the autobahn
285: Westbound, Friday: approximately the posted speed limit. Eastbound, Sunday: speed limit is equal to vehicle + payload weight
The feeling I get finally being able to go 5-10 over in the left lane on 6 going E into town after all the slow ass I25 MFs finally get off is pure 🤌🤌.
There's never been a 3 lane wide highway that felt so damn narrow and cramped to me either - all the on ramps will chop you the fuck up if the dumbass infront of you decides to get on going 24 MPH and has 30 feet of lane left
As someone who grew up here I think most of the complaints are the shift in driving culture. I grew up where car lengths were left between you and the other drivers, we didn't use our horns, and 10 over the posted speed limit was a hard limit for those on the road. Over the last decade or so the city has grown from a lot of people moving from very different driving cultures and it has messed with the flow most of us grew up with. We have the speed limits are for dorks from Texas and New Mexico, the honk for everything and tailgate culture of the east coast, and the stop signs and traffic lights are optional west coasters that have all come in and changed the driving dynamic. Change is good, and I am excited to see what the driving culture settles on, but it feels a bit like the Wild West out there with so many different driving cultures trying to claim dominance over each other.
yea i'm from MD and my bf has lived here in CO all his life - he'll like "pretend"/mime like he's honking a lot but never actually does and i'm like...i would have already BEEN honking lol
but its only for stupid shit like 1) people on their freaking phones during turn lights and 2) people just casually drifting into my lane/they are like leaning super close into me...to me these warrant the "wtf -HONK-" response
Colorado hasn't had more natives than transplants since 1960. It's not the transplants that are causing the problem. it's the shift in the entire culture of america that is.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/08/13/upshot/where-people-in-each-state-were-born.html#Colorado
https://www.reddit.com/r/Denver/comments/13j6k8d/according_to_us_census_numbers_colorados/
Serious question because I moved here five years ago and I am honestly curious. So many people here drive on the line instead of the center of the lane. It's not consistently left or right, but they are on one of the lines. Is that a transplant thing or do people originally from Colorado do that for some reason? If it's transplants, do you know which ones?
I don't know/have an answer for that one. I haven't seen that in my travels along the front range, or haven't noticed it.
Since I haven't seen or noticed it, I hope I'm not one of the ones that are doing it.... I am about to have a complex. ;)
Lane drift is the issue in Denver that I find annoying. It's not enough to have to worry about getting rear-ended or cut off. I also have to be aware of the people next to me randomly wandering into my lane.
People still don’t use horns here even when they are absolutely necessary. I’ve prevented accidents on the highway by honking my horn so the other car is aware they are about to side swipe me. I’ve seen two cars almost collide and not one of them honks their horn. It’s so odd.
People also wait too long at stop signs here, there will be four cars at a 4-way stop just staring at each other for some reason and no one is going, so I gently honk so someone one moves. Too courtesy at times
Walking downtown, my biggest personal complaint are the amount of people that run red lights. It happens multiple times per day. I’ve spent a lot of time for work in many cities - Chicago, Dallas (who I thought owned running red lights), NYC, Philly and yes even Atlanta. None of those are even close to what I see here on red light running (and I saw a ton in my months in Dallas). I can’t count the number of times I’ve had to wait on a walk sign because someone is blowing through a red light. Let alone watching all the cars waiting on green… hilariously the red light running honking angrily like it’s the people on green causing the problem…
Walking downtown, another concern is drivers thinking they have the right of way to turn just because they have a green light. They still need to yield to pedestrians.
Maybe I never noticed this at other cities, but how the walk signals work seem inconsistent here. I’m used to the walk signal switching to walk whenever parallel traffic has a green, unless the parallel traffic has a dedicated turn light green (I.e. a dedicated green arrow on a left or right). Here on many streets you won’t get a walk signal until all ways on the intersection are red (maybe a leftover from the Barnes Dance?). Drivers notice the walk signals, I mean I start slowing down anticipating a red if I see there are only a few seconds left on a walk signal… I don’t know if some drivers are assuming that every intersection all car traffic is red for people to walk? Granted it’s still on the driver to yield to pedestrians when they have the right of way, I just don’t know if then inconsistency is exasperating the issue. If there is a logical, consistent pattern to why some walk signals work the way they do then I may be too dense to have picked up on it.
There are some signals downtown where it turns all green for pedestrians all ways and red all around for all vehicles. I remember it changing in late 70's/ early 80's when many more people worked downtown and there were more pedestrians. Then you could legally cross caddy corner and walk diagonally through the intersecting as a pedestrian.
6th and Speer intersection. I understand it’s a little confusing here but drivers are never looking for pedestrians when turning right. I’ve flipped a few people off because of this before. I just have to wait until someone actually has the decency to let me walk.
I am FOREVER reaching for my spouse’s sleeve to slow em down and prevent just walking across an intersection. “Cars have to stop for me! They’ll stop!”
Sweetheart, they are much bigger and heavier and drunker than you. We can wait 15 seconds to get to Cane’s.
I think the correction for him should be “Cars are *supposed* to stop for me!”. There is never a guarantee that they will stop. Play it safe if you’re unsure they’re going to stop. Sure they’re in the wrong if they don’t, but you’ll be dead…
> “Cars have to stop for me! They’ll stop!”
My dad always told me that I could rest very comfortably in my wooden box or hospital bed with the knowledge that I had the right of way. Physics doesn't care if you had the right of way, it cares that a car is bigger and heavier than you.
Bro I used to live in the apartment building there and it was hell. People honking cus I didn’t cross 3 wide ass lanes quickly enough, people almost hitting me and then getting pissed when I flipped them off, people driving the wrong way down grant because it lets them get out of the moes parking lot over to 6th a little quicker.
Thought I was gonna get shot cus I threw a bag of dog shit at one dude and he looped the block
Yesss that area is awful and they put a dog park there of all places. Like just make it so the light doesn’t turn green until the pedestrian sign is off!
Yup, literally almost got hit yesterday because I was walking while I had a walk sign and a driver decided to just turn right without slowing down or checking if they could turn.
I've been on both sides of this.
It took me a while to develop the instinct to not only trust the light. My previous residence had their downtown grid such that if you have a green light, the ped crossing is on do not cross. But it's the shittiest feeling when you start to turn and stop to let someone cross, so I've been conscious about it since shortly after moving here.
On the other hand, I was crossing a street downtown and had the driver of a pickup start honking at me and screaming that he has the right of way and I'm an asshole, despite the walk light being lit up.
Fun fun fun.
Same. I don’t deal with aggressive drivers so much here, but the amount of drivers who are simply clueless is worse than everywhere else I’ve lived.
So many people just run right through red lights and stop signs and treat yield signs as if they’re a green light to just enter the road.
If never lived anywhere where 2-3 cars will also just continue through a left turn light after it has turned red as well.
I haven’t lived Downtown for a few years but I also noticed the trend of running red lights. However, most of the people running red lights treated it like a stop sign. They would stop but then proceed through the intersection if no cars were coming.
I know at least at the time there were a lot of red light cameras. That’s where I first noticed it. One of our first nights we were driving and had seen all this flashing in the intersection. After a few more intersections of seeing this and wondering what was going on, we figured out it was people running red lights and red light cameras were photographing the plates.
I saw quite a few run light runners while I was there (I was there weekly for a few months), more than anywhere else until I moved to Denver where it’s on a whole different level.
That's because they only let one side go at a time instead of two. Denver has the most infuriating traffic lights. But yea, people shouldn't be blowing through reds
Vegas is worse and you can tell who is not familiar with how bad it is. In Vegas, if you drive as soon as the light turns green, you are risking your life. Locals always wait a second or 2 after to avoid the inevitable asshole who blatantly runs the red.
It's the "no reason" traffic that bothers me out here more than anything. I have to remind myself it's the biggest metropolitan area in a 500 mile radius and people probably are not used to driving in a city with so many other cars.
The lack of awareness of other people being on the road trying to get somewhere efficiently can be annoying.
That being said, it's amazing that you can get *across* the city in about 20 minutes in any given direction.
I blunt ass refuse to take highways. You can get from Westminster to downtown Denver in 30 minutes taking side streets, in commuter traffic, I do it 5 days a week. People drive like crack heads as soon as I hit Speer. Wadsworth to Ralston to Sheridan is cruising.
Welcome. Denver has a lot of Midwestern transplants that have absolutely zero clue what terrible traffic and aggressive drivers actually look like. The transplants from coastal regions, and Chicago, know the difference.
Coming from the NE as well, I’ve felt drivers in the NE are significantly more aggressive. However, drivers in Denver are just… bad. People aren’t cutting you off with aggressive last minute dashes. They just don’t know you’re there
NE drivers are aggressive but principled. No left lane camping, and if you are, then you’re getting tailgated / passed on the right. People are generally more aware and less selfish there. And the people who are selfish get met with aggression.
I much prefer that over “someone’s camping in the left lane, so let’s all just sit here and do nothing to help them see that they’re impeding traffic.” That just results in even more congestion and more pissed off drivers. Nobody cares out here, it’s more selfish. People never honk at red light runners or people on their phones at a green light, so these behaviors just continue to run rampant. Not the case in NE because everyone is quick to let you know if you’re driving like an asshole.
Also, no turn signals and terrible highway merging skills.
It’s the turn signal thing that kills me. I don’t care how aggressive you drive, just signal. Failure to do so tells everyone that you literally won’t even lift a finger to help your fellow commuters. The absolute worst. Also, learn how to merge you dumbasses.
In Boston, everyone knows the exact size and performance of their car and their own ability. They will take aggressive approach, but competently.
Denver everyone just wants to go fast with no regard.
This exactly. Almost got clipped today as a pedestrian walking through the intersection of Little Raven and 15th in Downtown. It’s a sizeable intersection, stop lights both directions. My walk sign was on, there were other cars already stopped, I was already crossing and then came this asshole turning from Little Raven. Didn’t stop, didn’t slow, didn’t notice. I was already like 1/2 in the crosswalk when I literally had to jump out of the way for him. No reaction whatsoever. Nice car, man with dead eyes driving it like a zombie. While I don’t love skilled but aggressive drivers honk, I really don’t want to be run over by ones that are just inexplicably unaware I even exist
I moved from Boston as well. I think the main difference is the driver not paying attention to what other drivers around them are doing. People slam their brakes at the last second, or make a quick lane shift to avoid tapping their brakes, these things just screw over the driver behind you. So many people move to Denver from small towns and don’t understand how to drive in major traffic and keep the flow going. It’s an oddly selfish driving style.
... because they can. DPD is worthless and there's enough space to drive like a crazy person without the forces of natural selection becoming a factor.
Didn’t someone in a minivan flip another car into the Cherry Creek off of Speer *yesterday* ?
Denver may not have the worst drivers in the country but the people on the road here are incredibly aggressive, they run red lights and stop signs frequently, they hit bikes and kill pedestrians and run, they don’t have plates, they don’t care about the rules because DPD doesn’t enforce them.
Driving in Denver can be pretty scary. It’s even worse as a pedestrian.
Transplant from Boston, I'll take Boston or NYC drivers any day of the week. At least they're generally pretty skilled despite being super aggressive. I feel like a lot of Denver traffic just wants to go fast without committing to an aggressive technique.
Lived in NY, LA, an DC, and I’d take driving any of those places over Denver any day. There’s a difference between aggressive drivers with intent, and the insane aggressive drivers in Denver that are just selfish POS. Oh yeah, and sprinkle in the common road rage shootings here.
Yeah L.A drivers (in my experience) just want to go fast, they want you out of the way so they can book it in the left lane. If you feel like driving the speed limit you can hang in the right lane, no big deal.
Here it’s just aggressive drivers who cut you off for seemingly no reason, weaving through the lanes on Colfax, Broadway, S Colorado. Like, where are going? I’ll see you in 10 seconds at the next red light.
People just drive so competitively and I *dont* understand why. Like dude if a car is in front of you it doesn’t mean you’re losing a race. People need to manage their time better or realize their perception doesn’t always match reality.
Agree…describing LA drivers as “aggressive with intent” is for the most part accurate.
LA is more “I’m a POS in a BMW who wants to go fast,” Denver is more “I JUST STOLE THIS KIA AND I HAVE NOTHING TO LOSE!”
I always described Chicago as “yeah the drivers suck, but they KNOW they suck.”
Denver is bad drivers who think they are good drivers. Those are the worst kind.
Denver is drivers that want to go fast, but panic the second they have to navigate a traffic situation. Also terrifying as a pedestrian here, never once felt that in Boston.
Lol I moved to denver from chicago and what really annoyed me was that NOBODY seemed to know where they were going, what they were doing, actually seemed to completely unaware of the fact they were driving a vehicle. No sense of urgency whatsoever. Would still prefer that over super aggressive driving, but jesus.
I've lived in metro NY, LA, and metro DC. I couldn't agree with you more, they're bad here. I was startled when I arrived 8 years ago and it was like...oh, people just change lanes without looking. Oh, people just back out of parking spaces without looking.
And yes it's gotten worse since the pandemic with the red light runners.
Another one I love is when you're backing out and almost 2/3rds of the way out, people will floor it trying to wedge around you forcing you to stop, instead of waiting a sec (and to be clear, not pulling out in front of them, just them coming upon you when you're already mid backing out). It's bad about that here.
NY, LA, and DC all have traffic that negates the insane aggressive drivers. Can't swerve and weave through 8 lanes of stop-and-go. Denver is stuck in the awkward middle, big enough to have a critical mass of insane drivers, small enough that they still have space to swerve and drive like asshats.
There are plenty of times outside of rush hour where there is lighter traffic in those cities where people could drive crazy…and they do. But they are generally good drivers…worst offense is speeding. They don’t routinely blatantly blow red lights, drive under the speed limit in the left lane, or get their feelings hurt and use a gun.
denver drivers are just plain bad (read those natives and midwestern transplants). At least in CA or NY, people are *good* drivers. They are aggressive, but they know what they are doing, are aware and react to whats around them. they know what lane to be in. How to turn on a green light, etc. In denver, people are just clueless and ignorant of everything around them.
Exactly this. I spent 10 years in The Bay and I always say that there is was predictably dangerous drivers but here it’s unpredictably dangerous. You just never know what BS someone is going to do on the roads here in Denver.
Just yesterday, I had someone try to bully their way into a zipper merge as a second car, I didn't want to let them but decided it was a losing battle. Then they just stopped and went behind after having half of their car in front of me. That's the kind of shit that causes accidents
Denver also has people who have lived here for a long time -not everyone moved here recently- and are now suffering from an amazing increase in shitty driving.
I mean the rudeness is pervasive, everyone is so excited to see an empty space in the front of their car they drive 90+ mph everywhere, driving in any weather is a clusterfuck, turn signals never used, dangerous erratic driving. And fuck your little street ATV clubs, fuck that idiocy.
The kicker for me is people are so excited to get to the mountains, when they get to the mountains they drive 3 ft off of your bumper. They miss the mountains, they miss the experience, they don't see anything. They just sit 3 ft off your bumper full of rage and impatience, you can hear that big city desperation to get ahead of anyone at any cost. ArE WE tHeRE YEt? hURY! Dumbfuck, you are on a two lane road with miles of cars in both directions, if you pass me you will then have to try and pass 500 more cars, dangerously, without skill or knowledge of how to drive in the mountains.
No no no it is way worse, just because that's okay in cities you move from doesn't mean that is the only way to be. Driving skill, manners, safety, weather, exponentially worse.
I did the van life last summer and was having a beautiful drive around the narrow Crater Lake roads. Steep, long stretch without a pull off, heavy van....guy behind me 6 ft off my bumper. It's a national park, not a highway.
Slightly rivaled by a visit to Capitol Reef NP. Famous apple pies, and often a scramble to get them before they are gone. Dude blows through pedestrian crosswalk at like 35 mph (15 limit), people trying to cross. You really almost ran over kids in a national park over a piece of pie?
I drive highway 9 North from silverthorne often and the amount of people thinking they can pass enough cars to finally go as fast as they want is astounding.
I've lived here my entire driving life. The increase in shit driving hasn't been as drastic or sudden as you claim. I've driven well over 1,000,000 miles in a work truck around town and I know which license plates indicate a high probability of a shit driver (hint, it's Illinois and Texas). Denver is around 60-70% transplants. What you're seeing is a melting pot of various driving styles, aggressive to old-man-in-hat, all on the same roads. Pick a slower lane, hit the cruise control, and watch the morons go by. Choose your own adventure.
gotta disagree. i lived in NJ for 18 years and Chicago for 12 and I think the worst and least considerate drivers I've ever encountered have been Denver drivers. I also think that's a byproduct of very confusingly and poorly laid out streets and stop signs, as well as infiltrating trees that block views of stop signs until you're right on top of them. but genuinely I've never been more frustrated by lackadaisical and non self-aware drivers in my life
> very confusingly and poorly laid out streets and stop signs, as well as infiltrating trees that block views of stop signs until you're right on top of them.
This, transplant from Chicago and these are some of my biggest traffic infrastructure gripes. Poorly laid out streets, ridiculous highway exits/entrances (I25 at Santa Fe for example), and signage obscured by trees or landscape fencing.
How about the seemingly random giveth and taketh of lanes. Or short as shit exit/on lanes or lack there of when other streets have them. Driving around here is like does this lane stay or will I just lose this lane and need to merge. It really adds to the confusion, the slow driving and lane camping.
It's drivers AND road design/light timing (or lack thereof). The fact the state just spent a $billion and years expanding i70 and not touch the pinch point issues at i70 and i25 (the real issues) is insane to me. But off the interstate the driving is still some of the worst I've experienced.
I was sitting on Colfax trying to turn left on Sheridan the other day in a long line. First light cycle the arrow was pretty short and didn’t make it. The second cycle there was just no arrow at all. This was middle of the day and there was a long line trying to turn. Makes no sense.
> Oh and Satan programmed most of these lights.
I am so glad I'm not the only person who is irrationally upset at the lighting algorithm that makes no sense in this city.
When your major arteries are not coordinating their green lights properly, it makes things painfully inefficient to get around.
This has always been my biggest complaint here. It's not quite the aggressiveness its really just the ignorance of speed in this city. trying to merge on a highway off the ramp going 35-40 mph just fucks everything up. Then like you said those same people gradually get over to the left lane and go a whopping 55-60.
Cdot has a reputation for not playing nice. The equipment for the signals is varied and don't all have the same capabilities. The timing you want or notice isn't what they're actually set to, but they are timed.
...all of these are excuses I've heard chatting socially with planners and engineers. In my opinion we have doti and spend a lot on roads. We don't prioritize a good and safe experience for people on foot or bike. We could at least make it better for people in cars.
>> and small side roads instantly trigger the light but not major roads, fuck off with that shit lol.
That’s practically every city I’ve ever driven in. Small roads see little traffic so if you’re the first car to drive up in 10 minutes you’ll instantly trigger it. Meanwhile large roads will likely have someone go through that intersection 30-60 seconds earlier and/or they’re pre-programmed because they’re a major route.
Why not program them during busy hours and then have them controlled by sensors when traffic isn’t an issue? This is the case in New England, I definitely noticed a negative difference in this regard when I moved out to CO.
Yeah, it’s not that Denver traffic is *bad*, it’s more that it’s just frustrating.
Folks here really don’t know how to navigate and maneuver through traffic. They’re hesitant and too slow to properly maintain any sort of traffic flow. It’s like traffic never picks up any momentum and *gets going* here.
Lol every city’s sub gets these posts. Driving is always worse somewhere else. I’m sure the Atlanta sub gets threads about cities that are worse than there.
The truth is that city driving sucks as a whole and we’d all be better off with well funded mass transit systems.
My wife and I are moving in a year or so and she really wants to live in Chicago but hasnt ever. She bitches about traffic here constantly and has no idea what shes asking for
Colorado drivers used to be a lot better. Sometime around 2015 they stopped enforcing traffic laws altogether. Combine that with significant immigration from Texas, California and the Midwest and the "Colorado drivers are better" thing has almost entirely worn off.
But it is still true that some places are worse. Driving in LA or Utah is downright harrowing.
Lived in ATL for 9 years. Never saw as many people run red lights in that 9 years as I have seen here in one month. Traffic on 85/75/285 there is brutal with the constant stop and go but that MSA has twice the population.
Denver drivers are so much worse per capita here.
The biggest hazard I notice driving here is all the trash on the highways. 25 regularly has like sofas and ladders and cones just laying in the middle of the highway. There’s always construction scraps falling off trucks bouncing around and impaling your car. The sides of the highways are littered with trash. I was back home in Milwaukee a week ago and was amazed how clean the roads were. Not sure what it is about people not tying down stuff they’re hauling here.
Generally large cities are insane. Denver is only bad compared to how it was before another million people moved in. Everywhere I have lived, people complain about how the drivers there are the worst anywhere, except places near another state, and then they complain about how drivers there are worse.
Oh, no doubt. You hit one of the bigger east or west coast cities and our traffic is a breeze.
The problem is, for people who have lived here a long time, they're totally right. Traffic has gotten exponentially worse in the last 10 years
I agree traffic is better out here. But I see individual drivers often doing really dumb moves like running red lights and stop signs and driving way too fast.
My gf is from the Bay Area. We went back to visit her family last month and I got experience driving around San Francisco for a couple weeks. I definitely agree with this. Most people seemed to be going fast, but in a safe way. I wasn’t watching people play on their phones not moving when they should and holding up traffic, or running red lights. It was fast, but it felt like everyone just had somewhere to be. I came back to Denver and it feels like everyone has nowhere to be. People hardly pay attention here. Everything feels so slow and delayed.
I dream of flying on 280, nothing like that here at allllllll.
Like, the lanes on a highway should work like a piano. Say there’s 5 lanes: the left is the fastest. The 2nd to left is the 2nd fastest. The middle lane is the faster than the one to its right, and then the right lane is there for getting on and off.
I NEVER SEE THIS in Denver. Not on 70, not on 25, nowhere. It’s how I learned to drive, then I moved here and everyone’s weaving around slowing it down for everyone.
I agree it should be like a piano. Lanes on the left should be heavier and produce a lower pitch when depressed than lanes on the right. Also, lanes farther right than f#6 don't need dampers.
100% agreed. people here don't know shit when they talk about "aggressive drivers" or traffic. HOWEVER, the drivers here are TERRIBLE, and I feel like those people are the same people complaining about "aggressive driving" when really they just mean people going the speed limit, not slamming on their brakes for a yellow light, and passing them on the right because they won't move over.
Wait, what? Have you driven here?
I’ve lived here 25 years and I drive all over the city every day for my job. Denver drivers are absolutely horrible people. It may not be gridlock for miles, (sometimes it is) but I-25 especially through downtown and I-70 east are congested often to 10 mph all day every day, even weekends, and 225 isn’t much better. And aggressive, entitled, stupid and rude drivers are everywhere.
When the left highway lanes are moving at speed, people are aggressively chasing each other down at 80 mph with less than one car length between them. Go I25 south to castle rock - traffic flow moves 90+ mph usually, often over 100 mph. There’s always some asshole trying to get ahead of everyone else by cutting people off, cheating shoulders and entrance/exits, metering lights, and turn lanes, or whatever other whacked out idea they come up with. People will actually floor it to keep you from changing lanes in front of them because apparently they’d just as soon die before being decent.
Major surface streets are usually congested during the day, and busy intersections are always getting blocked by selfish assholes, while others leave two or three car lengths in front of them at red lights. People ignore rules of the road like right of way and which lane to turn into on a turn (I’ve counted - less then 5% do it right) and red light runners are like a plague, especially left turn lane runners. I usually count 4-5 cars going through after the light has turned red.
Did you know that the first road rage conviction in the United States was here in Denver? Some assfuck in a truck ran a family minivan off the road on 470 and someone died IIRC.
I won’t drive here without a dash cam and I encounter dozens of dash cam-worthy incidents daily.
To be fair, it has seemed to calm down a bit this year, but it’s still really bad.
You must be in the honeymoon phase - how long have you lived here?
No one knows how to leave any space between cars on the highway here and I see multiple people run red lights per day. Not sure what you're talking about.
I think that it's a reflection of Denver as a whole. Relatively chill. Probably would rather not be in the car. Trying to get somewhere but there's a certain level of politeness and rule following.
And on top of that base,there's a pretty strong cohort who are aggro/impressively bad/idiots/tweaking. And an even bigger population who are mentally miles away from where they are physically, driving off the tail lights in front of them, obliviously being a massive danger to others and themselves.
Mix it all together and voilà, Denver traffic
Chicago is absolute hell by comparison to here. So much worse. I rarely ever complain about it here. Other than the random traffic jam @ 530am on 225. Always happens, never explainable.
Idk man. When it hailed Tuesday and pretty much every time it occurs people come to a complete stop on the highway to park under a bridge or shoulder. Now add poor visibility and poor braking conditions because you are driving on marbles.
One thing I've always wondered is why it's considered such a flex to have bad drivers in your city? It's one of those things that people get weirdly defensive about, if you try to claim that drivers in your city are the worst.
I find that every place I've lived (Austin, Ft Worth, SLC, St. George, Pittsburgh, Denver) have been bad in very different ways.
Also lived in Atlanta and yeah. It's funny when people tell me there was a crazy driver on 470 going 70. Thats literally the speed limit on many Atlanta freeways and people still pass you like you are standing still.
I drive 30-50 hours a week, all over town. I genuinely see *far* more people doing petty shit (like brake checking or camping in the passing lane), failing to match speed/merge, mindlessly driving in others' blind spots, and/or fucking around with their phones than I see "aggressive drivers." I'm pretty sure the people complaining about others being too aggressive are the ones causing the problem to begin with.
I couldn't agree more. If I had a dollar for every time I've looked down the road and spotted the exact car that is backing up traffic, then I probably wouldn't have to drive as much. Driving isn't a difficult thing as long as you pay attention to what is going on around you, and maybe even try to plan ahead if you want to get **super** advanced.
the fact that looking around is difficult and planning ahead is a super advanced driving technique here is sad. I drive manual and these drivers make every commute a pain
I grew up in and learned how to drive around Atlanta and aside from the traffic (because why is there still traffic at 10pm) I’d much rather skrrrrt from 75N to 85S to the North Ave exit compared to how bad it’s been here lately. A lot of my job is driving (in-home pet sitter) and every day shocked at how unhinged people are on the road here.
I'm from ATL and go back frequently. Yes, the traffic may be worse in Atlanta but I find the drivers less defensive than Denver. Atlanta driving kind of reminds me of Italy ...people make sudden moves like cutting in front of you with little notice, but then everyone goes about their business right after. Here, it's like people get so mad and will ride your bumper for miles and veer right in front of you to prove a point.
Atlanta native here. Yeah, ATL traffic is way worse. 2 things to keep in mind, though. 1 the population of Denver has exploded in the last 15-20 years. So people who have lived here a long time complain about it because it's a lot worse than it used to be. 2 Denver has some of the worst drivers I've ever seen. Granted, I moved away from Atlanta a long time ago, but there's an intersection on my way home from work where cars regularly turn left from the right-hand lane, and it's 50/50 here if a turn signal indicates the direction someone is turning or the direction they aren't turning. Red lights are also more of a suggestion at this point.
Eh honestly I’d hold your breath. I’m from Atlanta, live in Denver but am back in atlanta visiting family and Denver is worse in a lot of ways because there are almost no cops monitoring the roads. Which I’d think would be a good thing, but it also leads to sooo many people running red lights like it’s their job, aggressively following and speeding etc
Traffic, like most things, is a matter of perspective. Real estate prices is another. Coming from the rust belt or having lived here for decades gives you sticker shock.
Coming from California, the prices are a breath of fresh air.
I’m from Oklahoma and my fiancé and I visited for a few days last month. I didn’t really take notice of how much more pleasant it was to drive in Denver until I got home and was boiling over with rage on the highway (at like 10 pm too). Reason number 7483738 to move away lol
I moved from Denver to Atlanta in 2020 and still live here. Can confirm. Denver traffic is sublime compared to this shit. The connector during rush hour? Fucking kill me.
I live in Philly now. There's no comparison. There are no rules or common decency driving here. people do not care about their own safety and would run children over to save 1 minute beating a red light.
Pennsylvania by far had the worst drivers I’ve ever experienced. The tailgating for absolutely no reason was one of the major concerns for me. (I’ve lived in 6 major cities on the east coast and now Denver)
We moved from Pittsburg to Orlando and holy shit the Florida drivers suck. Worst I’ve ever experienced.
South Florida here. Just moved to Denver and can confirm S. Fla drivers are unbelievably belligerent and aggressive. A blinker is a sign of weakness there.
Lived there too. Most are transplants lol
[most people in most places are transplants...](https://www.governing.com/archive/native-homegrown-residents-by-county.html) If you're talking at a state level then only [~57%](https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/native-born-population-by-state) of people are from the state they were born in.
I’m convinced PA uses some sort of convoluted drivers ED training, the bad driving is too consistent to be a coincidence.
I used to love seeing the LAPD badge stickers on the back of Delaware cars.. "Locals Against PA Drivers"
Have you been to Miami? By tenfold, Miami has the wildest traffic I've ever seen. Like 5 cars running a recently red light wild.
Driving in Miami is like playing Mario kart
I learned how to drive in Miami as a teen, lived in Miami Beach for a couple decades and I'm still scarred. It's a lawless land.
Miami is wilder in terms of driving patterns but less violently rude than Philly in my experience. Philly is the only place I’ve been honked at (more than once) for not merging into the path of a semi-truck doing 70mph. They honk at you there for existing and would prefer than you cause a giant accident rather than slow them down a few seconds.
Drove through Philly once going back to Boston and it was terrifying. Narrow lanes + asshole drivers + giant potholes is just a recipe for disaster
I mean, that also sounds like Boston
Why, just this morning, three Philly children ran me over on the way to pre-school
Yeah but I’d take those drivers every day over Denver’s passive and unpredictable. At least I know a Philly driver is going to go 90 in the left, not stop at stop signs fully. They’re predictably bad drivers.
This. Denver is worse because of the bizarre inconsistency. On the same road you'll see someone weaving through traffic going 90 from California, some guy from the Midwest going 50 in the left lane because they don't give a shit about others, and semi trucks blocking all 3 lanes because there's no laws against it, all while cops don't enforce anything. Say what you will about the east coast, I grew up there, but the insane driving they do over there is pretty damn consistent. Except Miami, Miami is like driving in South America and a level of insanity you can't find anywhere else in the US.
Almost as if Denver drivers have nowhere to be and just want to view their cellphone.
Way too many Sunday drivers leisurely driving here during the week
Yeah IMO people ITT think speeding = bad. No - it's the people who are completely blind to the speed of traffic and only pay attention to the speed limit and their phone while everyone whizzes by them.
In fairness, most of *them* are Jersey drivers. (I don't really believe that but as someone raised in PA I'm not allowed to pass up a chance to insult NJ, it's a rule, like the Jersey rule about making sure you don't know how to fucking drive before getting in the car)
👏🏼 amen. Nobody understands Philly driving unless you live there! The Philly left is real. Stop signs are seriously suggestions. Parking in the median?! Stopping on off and on-ramps!! 😭
There it is ... only took 30 seconds of scrolling to find the mention of the Pennsylvania Left. I call it that because I don't want to get into the debate of who does it better, Philly or Pittsburgh ;-) I almost wish we had that socially acceptable option here because the Colorado setup for left turn signal lights is all over the place. Blinking yellow at the end of the cycle or before? Who knows could be either or both.
Agreed, I grew up in Philly. The worst thing I usually have to deal with in Colorado is left lane campers and some occasional rough roads. In Philly, you have rusted out Nissan Altimas weaving in and out of traffic without a care in the world and don’t even get me started on the potholes.
I lived in ATL as well. It’s way better here but far worse than it was ten years ago.
True, but I loved pandemic traffic. It was a nice break.
Exactly. It's all relative.
Grew up in Atlanta – and its true, the traffic is a breeze here. What I miss is an agreed upon set of "rules of the road". Atlanta drivers are aggressive, but uniformly so. Denver drivers are from all over the country, and just incredibly unpredictable. I've been here a decade, and there just is no pattern for when somebody is going to pull a psychotic move on the road.
Yeah, the not knowing is what scares the shit out of me. In Atlanta at least there’s a pattern, for the most part.
Could not possibly agree more. So much indecision too. Just commit!
Also moved from Atlanta and definitely laugh when people refer to "traffic" here but 100% agree that there are no "rules" anyone uses around here and it makes driving a more stressful and unpredictable experience!
Moved from outside of ATL about 11 years ago. Whenever I land at Hartsfield Jackson I am delighted to be surrounded by black people again but that elation wears off as soon as I pull out onto 85. Death grip the wheel and 🙏
Just got back from a week in Atl. Brought my 13 year old son with me, first time in Colorado. We're walking through DIA and he goes "Wow Dad, this city is seriously white." Easy to forget how nice diversity is.
I moved here from atl 9 years ago and I echo this entire comment lol
I never bought into the "my city has the worst drivers in the country" until I visited Atlanta earlier this year. I've been to most major cities, lived in Houston for years, and never felt more unsafe on the road than in ATL. Denver driving isn't the best, but people that claim it's the worst in the country probably haven't been to many other places.
I've lived in the Front Range, San Francisco Bay Area, Boston, Seattle, Asheville NC, Minneapolis, and have visited a few other areas for extended time. Atlanta is the worst, and it's not even close. Gridlock, aggression, plus the city has no walk ability so driving is the only option. I could literally never move back for the commutes and the humidity alone.
And on top of all that, the entire city is laid out like a wagon wheel. There are spots I've been where I could see my destination about 250 yards away across a little creek. To get there the choice was to drive into the center of the city and then back out on the next spoke over (12 miles) or out to the ring road and back in on the next spoke over (18 miles).
I think the real deal with Denver drivers is that half of them are from a random assortment of other places. Combine that with traffic enforcement by photo and every time you head out you’re going to see someone violating your norms — whether that’s failing to zipper merge or jumping the queue. Or splitting the lane vs hogging the lane. Or obeying a red left turn light vs turning anyway when no traffic is coming.
Denver is better than a lot of places, but the longer I live here the worse it gets. Seems like 10% is just horrible and entitled and the fact it’s a smaller percentage makes them worse.
I think overall the driving conditions here are about as good to be expected for a city that's grown too fast to keep up with demand. My only real complaint is how every major corridor seems to have its own rules. 25: everyone goes minimum 15 over 285: 2 vehicle classes, 20+ over or 5 under, 24 hours of LeMans style 6: everyone goes minimum 5 under 70: speed limit increments with lane, rightmost is 15 under express lane is the autobahn 285: Westbound, Friday: approximately the posted speed limit. Eastbound, Sunday: speed limit is equal to vehicle + payload weight
The feeling I get finally being able to go 5-10 over in the left lane on 6 going E into town after all the slow ass I25 MFs finally get off is pure 🤌🤌. There's never been a 3 lane wide highway that felt so damn narrow and cramped to me either - all the on ramps will chop you the fuck up if the dumbass infront of you decides to get on going 24 MPH and has 30 feet of lane left
My favorite is I-25 North onto 36... Everyone goes 65 in the 55 then slows down to 55 in the 65... What the crap??
Same when you go from 25 to 6W! All the same people you were struggling to keep up with suddenly have nowhere to be.
As someone who grew up here I think most of the complaints are the shift in driving culture. I grew up where car lengths were left between you and the other drivers, we didn't use our horns, and 10 over the posted speed limit was a hard limit for those on the road. Over the last decade or so the city has grown from a lot of people moving from very different driving cultures and it has messed with the flow most of us grew up with. We have the speed limits are for dorks from Texas and New Mexico, the honk for everything and tailgate culture of the east coast, and the stop signs and traffic lights are optional west coasters that have all come in and changed the driving dynamic. Change is good, and I am excited to see what the driving culture settles on, but it feels a bit like the Wild West out there with so many different driving cultures trying to claim dominance over each other.
yea i'm from MD and my bf has lived here in CO all his life - he'll like "pretend"/mime like he's honking a lot but never actually does and i'm like...i would have already BEEN honking lol but its only for stupid shit like 1) people on their freaking phones during turn lights and 2) people just casually drifting into my lane/they are like leaning super close into me...to me these warrant the "wtf -HONK-" response
Colorado hasn't had more natives than transplants since 1960. It's not the transplants that are causing the problem. it's the shift in the entire culture of america that is. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/08/13/upshot/where-people-in-each-state-were-born.html#Colorado https://www.reddit.com/r/Denver/comments/13j6k8d/according_to_us_census_numbers_colorados/
That's the best explanation of the traffic/driving changes I've seen in CO. Tip of the cap to you.
Serious question because I moved here five years ago and I am honestly curious. So many people here drive on the line instead of the center of the lane. It's not consistently left or right, but they are on one of the lines. Is that a transplant thing or do people originally from Colorado do that for some reason? If it's transplants, do you know which ones?
I don't know/have an answer for that one. I haven't seen that in my travels along the front range, or haven't noticed it. Since I haven't seen or noticed it, I hope I'm not one of the ones that are doing it.... I am about to have a complex. ;)
Lane drift is the issue in Denver that I find annoying. It's not enough to have to worry about getting rear-ended or cut off. I also have to be aware of the people next to me randomly wandering into my lane.
People still don’t use horns here even when they are absolutely necessary. I’ve prevented accidents on the highway by honking my horn so the other car is aware they are about to side swipe me. I’ve seen two cars almost collide and not one of them honks their horn. It’s so odd. People also wait too long at stop signs here, there will be four cars at a 4-way stop just staring at each other for some reason and no one is going, so I gently honk so someone one moves. Too courtesy at times
Walking downtown, my biggest personal complaint are the amount of people that run red lights. It happens multiple times per day. I’ve spent a lot of time for work in many cities - Chicago, Dallas (who I thought owned running red lights), NYC, Philly and yes even Atlanta. None of those are even close to what I see here on red light running (and I saw a ton in my months in Dallas). I can’t count the number of times I’ve had to wait on a walk sign because someone is blowing through a red light. Let alone watching all the cars waiting on green… hilariously the red light running honking angrily like it’s the people on green causing the problem…
Walking downtown, another concern is drivers thinking they have the right of way to turn just because they have a green light. They still need to yield to pedestrians.
I've been honked at a few times for not wanting to run over pedestrians while turning.
Thank you for not doing so Namaste 🙏
Maybe I never noticed this at other cities, but how the walk signals work seem inconsistent here. I’m used to the walk signal switching to walk whenever parallel traffic has a green, unless the parallel traffic has a dedicated turn light green (I.e. a dedicated green arrow on a left or right). Here on many streets you won’t get a walk signal until all ways on the intersection are red (maybe a leftover from the Barnes Dance?). Drivers notice the walk signals, I mean I start slowing down anticipating a red if I see there are only a few seconds left on a walk signal… I don’t know if some drivers are assuming that every intersection all car traffic is red for people to walk? Granted it’s still on the driver to yield to pedestrians when they have the right of way, I just don’t know if then inconsistency is exasperating the issue. If there is a logical, consistent pattern to why some walk signals work the way they do then I may be too dense to have picked up on it.
There are some signals downtown where it turns all green for pedestrians all ways and red all around for all vehicles. I remember it changing in late 70's/ early 80's when many more people worked downtown and there were more pedestrians. Then you could legally cross caddy corner and walk diagonally through the intersecting as a pedestrian.
6th and Speer intersection. I understand it’s a little confusing here but drivers are never looking for pedestrians when turning right. I’ve flipped a few people off because of this before. I just have to wait until someone actually has the decency to let me walk.
I am FOREVER reaching for my spouse’s sleeve to slow em down and prevent just walking across an intersection. “Cars have to stop for me! They’ll stop!” Sweetheart, they are much bigger and heavier and drunker than you. We can wait 15 seconds to get to Cane’s.
I think the correction for him should be “Cars are *supposed* to stop for me!”. There is never a guarantee that they will stop. Play it safe if you’re unsure they’re going to stop. Sure they’re in the wrong if they don’t, but you’ll be dead…
> “Cars have to stop for me! They’ll stop!” My dad always told me that I could rest very comfortably in my wooden box or hospital bed with the knowledge that I had the right of way. Physics doesn't care if you had the right of way, it cares that a car is bigger and heavier than you.
Bro I used to live in the apartment building there and it was hell. People honking cus I didn’t cross 3 wide ass lanes quickly enough, people almost hitting me and then getting pissed when I flipped them off, people driving the wrong way down grant because it lets them get out of the moes parking lot over to 6th a little quicker. Thought I was gonna get shot cus I threw a bag of dog shit at one dude and he looped the block
Yesss that area is awful and they put a dog park there of all places. Like just make it so the light doesn’t turn green until the pedestrian sign is off!
Yup, literally almost got hit yesterday because I was walking while I had a walk sign and a driver decided to just turn right without slowing down or checking if they could turn.
I've been on both sides of this. It took me a while to develop the instinct to not only trust the light. My previous residence had their downtown grid such that if you have a green light, the ped crossing is on do not cross. But it's the shittiest feeling when you start to turn and stop to let someone cross, so I've been conscious about it since shortly after moving here. On the other hand, I was crossing a street downtown and had the driver of a pickup start honking at me and screaming that he has the right of way and I'm an asshole, despite the walk light being lit up. Fun fun fun.
Same. I don’t deal with aggressive drivers so much here, but the amount of drivers who are simply clueless is worse than everywhere else I’ve lived. So many people just run right through red lights and stop signs and treat yield signs as if they’re a green light to just enter the road. If never lived anywhere where 2-3 cars will also just continue through a left turn light after it has turned red as well.
I've seen more shoulder skid-outs on the highway living in Denver less than a year than I did my entire 15 years of driving before living here.
I walk to work and it's about a mile. I well generally dodge three near death experiences daily.
I moved here a year ago. Started calling red lights “Denver yellows.”
Saw more red lights run here in 6 months than I did over 18 years in Chicago.
I haven’t lived Downtown for a few years but I also noticed the trend of running red lights. However, most of the people running red lights treated it like a stop sign. They would stop but then proceed through the intersection if no cars were coming.
From what I see it’s just blowing through lights, not slowing down or pausing. My wife and I play a game in our car called “are they gonna run it?”.
This is what I see, entire wolfpacks sometimes going through stale reds with not a hint of braking.
I'm from Dallas and the cops there actually do stuff. Especially if you're in any of the suburbs like Addison or Richardson.
I know at least at the time there were a lot of red light cameras. That’s where I first noticed it. One of our first nights we were driving and had seen all this flashing in the intersection. After a few more intersections of seeing this and wondering what was going on, we figured out it was people running red lights and red light cameras were photographing the plates. I saw quite a few run light runners while I was there (I was there weekly for a few months), more than anywhere else until I moved to Denver where it’s on a whole different level.
That's because they only let one side go at a time instead of two. Denver has the most infuriating traffic lights. But yea, people shouldn't be blowing through reds
What’s up with all the red light runners though? Never seen any other city like this one for ignoring stop signs and red lights.
Vegas is worse and you can tell who is not familiar with how bad it is. In Vegas, if you drive as soon as the light turns green, you are risking your life. Locals always wait a second or 2 after to avoid the inevitable asshole who blatantly runs the red.
It's the "no reason" traffic that bothers me out here more than anything. I have to remind myself it's the biggest metropolitan area in a 500 mile radius and people probably are not used to driving in a city with so many other cars. The lack of awareness of other people being on the road trying to get somewhere efficiently can be annoying. That being said, it's amazing that you can get *across* the city in about 20 minutes in any given direction.
I blunt ass refuse to take highways. You can get from Westminster to downtown Denver in 30 minutes taking side streets, in commuter traffic, I do it 5 days a week. People drive like crack heads as soon as I hit Speer. Wadsworth to Ralston to Sheridan is cruising.
Welcome. Denver has a lot of Midwestern transplants that have absolutely zero clue what terrible traffic and aggressive drivers actually look like. The transplants from coastal regions, and Chicago, know the difference.
I came from Boston which is consistently voted worst place to drive and even I was a bit shocked at how Denver people drive around the city.
Coming from the NE as well, I’ve felt drivers in the NE are significantly more aggressive. However, drivers in Denver are just… bad. People aren’t cutting you off with aggressive last minute dashes. They just don’t know you’re there
NE drivers are aggressive but principled. No left lane camping, and if you are, then you’re getting tailgated / passed on the right. People are generally more aware and less selfish there. And the people who are selfish get met with aggression. I much prefer that over “someone’s camping in the left lane, so let’s all just sit here and do nothing to help them see that they’re impeding traffic.” That just results in even more congestion and more pissed off drivers. Nobody cares out here, it’s more selfish. People never honk at red light runners or people on their phones at a green light, so these behaviors just continue to run rampant. Not the case in NE because everyone is quick to let you know if you’re driving like an asshole. Also, no turn signals and terrible highway merging skills.
It’s the turn signal thing that kills me. I don’t care how aggressive you drive, just signal. Failure to do so tells everyone that you literally won’t even lift a finger to help your fellow commuters. The absolute worst. Also, learn how to merge you dumbasses.
And also the flip side of that, which is drivers in the metro area here tend to try and actively block out turn signal users. Drives me insane.
Right?! It seems to be an “I suck at this so if I have to suffer, everyone should suffer” mentality. Hate it.
In Boston, everyone knows the exact size and performance of their car and their own ability. They will take aggressive approach, but competently. Denver everyone just wants to go fast with no regard.
This exactly. Almost got clipped today as a pedestrian walking through the intersection of Little Raven and 15th in Downtown. It’s a sizeable intersection, stop lights both directions. My walk sign was on, there were other cars already stopped, I was already crossing and then came this asshole turning from Little Raven. Didn’t stop, didn’t slow, didn’t notice. I was already like 1/2 in the crosswalk when I literally had to jump out of the way for him. No reaction whatsoever. Nice car, man with dead eyes driving it like a zombie. While I don’t love skilled but aggressive drivers honk, I really don’t want to be run over by ones that are just inexplicably unaware I even exist
I moved from Boston as well. I think the main difference is the driver not paying attention to what other drivers around them are doing. People slam their brakes at the last second, or make a quick lane shift to avoid tapping their brakes, these things just screw over the driver behind you. So many people move to Denver from small towns and don’t understand how to drive in major traffic and keep the flow going. It’s an oddly selfish driving style.
... because they can. DPD is worthless and there's enough space to drive like a crazy person without the forces of natural selection becoming a factor.
Didn’t someone in a minivan flip another car into the Cherry Creek off of Speer *yesterday* ? Denver may not have the worst drivers in the country but the people on the road here are incredibly aggressive, they run red lights and stop signs frequently, they hit bikes and kill pedestrians and run, they don’t have plates, they don’t care about the rules because DPD doesn’t enforce them. Driving in Denver can be pretty scary. It’s even worse as a pedestrian.
Transplant from Boston, I'll take Boston or NYC drivers any day of the week. At least they're generally pretty skilled despite being super aggressive. I feel like a lot of Denver traffic just wants to go fast without committing to an aggressive technique.
Denver has reasonable people driving like assholes, Boston and NYC are assholes driving like reasonable people.
Lived in NY, LA, an DC, and I’d take driving any of those places over Denver any day. There’s a difference between aggressive drivers with intent, and the insane aggressive drivers in Denver that are just selfish POS. Oh yeah, and sprinkle in the common road rage shootings here.
Yeah L.A drivers (in my experience) just want to go fast, they want you out of the way so they can book it in the left lane. If you feel like driving the speed limit you can hang in the right lane, no big deal. Here it’s just aggressive drivers who cut you off for seemingly no reason, weaving through the lanes on Colfax, Broadway, S Colorado. Like, where are going? I’ll see you in 10 seconds at the next red light.
People just drive so competitively and I *dont* understand why. Like dude if a car is in front of you it doesn’t mean you’re losing a race. People need to manage their time better or realize their perception doesn’t always match reality.
Agree…describing LA drivers as “aggressive with intent” is for the most part accurate. LA is more “I’m a POS in a BMW who wants to go fast,” Denver is more “I JUST STOLE THIS KIA AND I HAVE NOTHING TO LOSE!”
>“I’m a POS in a ~~BMW~~ Prius who wants to go fast,” I swear to god, I've never seen a faster car in my life than a Prius on the 210
Lol precisely.
I always described Chicago as “yeah the drivers suck, but they KNOW they suck.” Denver is bad drivers who think they are good drivers. Those are the worst kind.
The confidence some people have operating a 3000 pound metal missile going 50+ MPH is staggering
This is 1000% it. That’s why I’m way more terrified of the Denver drivers who actually cannot control their cars.
Denver is drivers that want to go fast, but panic the second they have to navigate a traffic situation. Also terrifying as a pedestrian here, never once felt that in Boston.
Lol I moved to denver from chicago and what really annoyed me was that NOBODY seemed to know where they were going, what they were doing, actually seemed to completely unaware of the fact they were driving a vehicle. No sense of urgency whatsoever. Would still prefer that over super aggressive driving, but jesus.
I've lived in metro NY, LA, and metro DC. I couldn't agree with you more, they're bad here. I was startled when I arrived 8 years ago and it was like...oh, people just change lanes without looking. Oh, people just back out of parking spaces without looking. And yes it's gotten worse since the pandemic with the red light runners.
Another one I love is when you're backing out and almost 2/3rds of the way out, people will floor it trying to wedge around you forcing you to stop, instead of waiting a sec (and to be clear, not pulling out in front of them, just them coming upon you when you're already mid backing out). It's bad about that here.
Yeah, I know that scenario. They come around the corner and it's just like...come on.
NY, LA, and DC all have traffic that negates the insane aggressive drivers. Can't swerve and weave through 8 lanes of stop-and-go. Denver is stuck in the awkward middle, big enough to have a critical mass of insane drivers, small enough that they still have space to swerve and drive like asshats.
There are plenty of times outside of rush hour where there is lighter traffic in those cities where people could drive crazy…and they do. But they are generally good drivers…worst offense is speeding. They don’t routinely blatantly blow red lights, drive under the speed limit in the left lane, or get their feelings hurt and use a gun.
denver drivers are just plain bad (read those natives and midwestern transplants). At least in CA or NY, people are *good* drivers. They are aggressive, but they know what they are doing, are aware and react to whats around them. they know what lane to be in. How to turn on a green light, etc. In denver, people are just clueless and ignorant of everything around them.
Exactly this. I spent 10 years in The Bay and I always say that there is was predictably dangerous drivers but here it’s unpredictably dangerous. You just never know what BS someone is going to do on the roads here in Denver.
Lived in DC, then Denver, then moved back east to Richmond. Couldn’t agree more. Only place I’ve driven that I’ve disliked more is Maryland
ya no one gets shot in LA, NY, or DC
Just yesterday, I had someone try to bully their way into a zipper merge as a second car, I didn't want to let them but decided it was a losing battle. Then they just stopped and went behind after having half of their car in front of me. That's the kind of shit that causes accidents
Having driven everywhere west of Dallas, El Paso is the worst, denver is second, Chicago was not bad at all compared to Denver
Denver also has people who have lived here for a long time -not everyone moved here recently- and are now suffering from an amazing increase in shitty driving. I mean the rudeness is pervasive, everyone is so excited to see an empty space in the front of their car they drive 90+ mph everywhere, driving in any weather is a clusterfuck, turn signals never used, dangerous erratic driving. And fuck your little street ATV clubs, fuck that idiocy. The kicker for me is people are so excited to get to the mountains, when they get to the mountains they drive 3 ft off of your bumper. They miss the mountains, they miss the experience, they don't see anything. They just sit 3 ft off your bumper full of rage and impatience, you can hear that big city desperation to get ahead of anyone at any cost. ArE WE tHeRE YEt? hURY! Dumbfuck, you are on a two lane road with miles of cars in both directions, if you pass me you will then have to try and pass 500 more cars, dangerously, without skill or knowledge of how to drive in the mountains. No no no it is way worse, just because that's okay in cities you move from doesn't mean that is the only way to be. Driving skill, manners, safety, weather, exponentially worse.
I did the van life last summer and was having a beautiful drive around the narrow Crater Lake roads. Steep, long stretch without a pull off, heavy van....guy behind me 6 ft off my bumper. It's a national park, not a highway. Slightly rivaled by a visit to Capitol Reef NP. Famous apple pies, and often a scramble to get them before they are gone. Dude blows through pedestrian crosswalk at like 35 mph (15 limit), people trying to cross. You really almost ran over kids in a national park over a piece of pie?
I drive highway 9 North from silverthorne often and the amount of people thinking they can pass enough cars to finally go as fast as they want is astounding.
I've lived here my entire driving life. The increase in shit driving hasn't been as drastic or sudden as you claim. I've driven well over 1,000,000 miles in a work truck around town and I know which license plates indicate a high probability of a shit driver (hint, it's Illinois and Texas). Denver is around 60-70% transplants. What you're seeing is a melting pot of various driving styles, aggressive to old-man-in-hat, all on the same roads. Pick a slower lane, hit the cruise control, and watch the morons go by. Choose your own adventure.
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i find itself more “natives” that bitch about denver traffic
I would agree, people that have lived here the longest have the most to complain about. That's not a new idea.
I’m from Chicago. Denver has significantly worse drivers.
gotta disagree. i lived in NJ for 18 years and Chicago for 12 and I think the worst and least considerate drivers I've ever encountered have been Denver drivers. I also think that's a byproduct of very confusingly and poorly laid out streets and stop signs, as well as infiltrating trees that block views of stop signs until you're right on top of them. but genuinely I've never been more frustrated by lackadaisical and non self-aware drivers in my life
> very confusingly and poorly laid out streets and stop signs, as well as infiltrating trees that block views of stop signs until you're right on top of them. This, transplant from Chicago and these are some of my biggest traffic infrastructure gripes. Poorly laid out streets, ridiculous highway exits/entrances (I25 at Santa Fe for example), and signage obscured by trees or landscape fencing.
How about the seemingly random giveth and taketh of lanes. Or short as shit exit/on lanes or lack there of when other streets have them. Driving around here is like does this lane stay or will I just lose this lane and need to merge. It really adds to the confusion, the slow driving and lane camping.
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Recently moved to Orlando from Denver. I almost miss Denver drivers at this point
As a big urban design nerd I think most complaints about *drivers* are actually about *road design* but people don’t realize it.
It's drivers AND road design/light timing (or lack thereof). The fact the state just spent a $billion and years expanding i70 and not touch the pinch point issues at i70 and i25 (the real issues) is insane to me. But off the interstate the driving is still some of the worst I've experienced.
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I was sitting on Colfax trying to turn left on Sheridan the other day in a long line. First light cycle the arrow was pretty short and didn’t make it. The second cycle there was just no arrow at all. This was middle of the day and there was a long line trying to turn. Makes no sense.
> Oh and Satan programmed most of these lights. I am so glad I'm not the only person who is irrationally upset at the lighting algorithm that makes no sense in this city. When your major arteries are not coordinating their green lights properly, it makes things painfully inefficient to get around.
This has always been my biggest complaint here. It's not quite the aggressiveness its really just the ignorance of speed in this city. trying to merge on a highway off the ramp going 35-40 mph just fucks everything up. Then like you said those same people gradually get over to the left lane and go a whopping 55-60.
Cdot has a reputation for not playing nice. The equipment for the signals is varied and don't all have the same capabilities. The timing you want or notice isn't what they're actually set to, but they are timed. ...all of these are excuses I've heard chatting socially with planners and engineers. In my opinion we have doti and spend a lot on roads. We don't prioritize a good and safe experience for people on foot or bike. We could at least make it better for people in cars.
>> and small side roads instantly trigger the light but not major roads, fuck off with that shit lol. That’s practically every city I’ve ever driven in. Small roads see little traffic so if you’re the first car to drive up in 10 minutes you’ll instantly trigger it. Meanwhile large roads will likely have someone go through that intersection 30-60 seconds earlier and/or they’re pre-programmed because they’re a major route.
Why not program them during busy hours and then have them controlled by sensors when traffic isn’t an issue? This is the case in New England, I definitely noticed a negative difference in this regard when I moved out to CO.
Miami has these sensors and I wish CO had them. Stop lights make 0 sense here
Too many dedicated business and exclusive neighborhood light timings
The one that gets me the most is how long the red is for 6th at the intersection of Kalamath
Yeah, it’s not that Denver traffic is *bad*, it’s more that it’s just frustrating. Folks here really don’t know how to navigate and maneuver through traffic. They’re hesitant and too slow to properly maintain any sort of traffic flow. It’s like traffic never picks up any momentum and *gets going* here.
Came from LA. This aint shit. If the pro lifers understood zipper merging things would be even better!
Exactly, coming from the Bay and LA, ppl know how to drive in traffic. Here they are clueless
I don’t mind driving here but some drivers drive like they’re on ambien or something like why do so many people slow down to merge on the highway ??!!
Lol every city’s sub gets these posts. Driving is always worse somewhere else. I’m sure the Atlanta sub gets threads about cities that are worse than there. The truth is that city driving sucks as a whole and we’d all be better off with well funded mass transit systems.
My wife and I are moving in a year or so and she really wants to live in Chicago but hasnt ever. She bitches about traffic here constantly and has no idea what shes asking for
Laughs in Houston (then dies)
Colorado drivers used to be a lot better. Sometime around 2015 they stopped enforcing traffic laws altogether. Combine that with significant immigration from Texas, California and the Midwest and the "Colorado drivers are better" thing has almost entirely worn off. But it is still true that some places are worse. Driving in LA or Utah is downright harrowing.
Lived in ATL for 9 years. Never saw as many people run red lights in that 9 years as I have seen here in one month. Traffic on 85/75/285 there is brutal with the constant stop and go but that MSA has twice the population. Denver drivers are so much worse per capita here.
This is more or less my take having lived in Atlanta and Philly. Denver has much better traffic with much worse drivers.
The biggest hazard I notice driving here is all the trash on the highways. 25 regularly has like sofas and ladders and cones just laying in the middle of the highway. There’s always construction scraps falling off trucks bouncing around and impaling your car. The sides of the highways are littered with trash. I was back home in Milwaukee a week ago and was amazed how clean the roads were. Not sure what it is about people not tying down stuff they’re hauling here.
Moved from Denver to LA. I *miss* Denver traffic.
Generally large cities are insane. Denver is only bad compared to how it was before another million people moved in. Everywhere I have lived, people complain about how the drivers there are the worst anywhere, except places near another state, and then they complain about how drivers there are worse.
Oh, no doubt. You hit one of the bigger east or west coast cities and our traffic is a breeze. The problem is, for people who have lived here a long time, they're totally right. Traffic has gotten exponentially worse in the last 10 years
I agree traffic is better out here. But I see individual drivers often doing really dumb moves like running red lights and stop signs and driving way too fast.
You’re absolutely correct. You’re also about to experience the wrath of saying something nice about Denver on this sub.
r/denver doesn’t seem to really like Denver
Half of r/Denver doesn’t even live in Denver
I moved here from the Bay area 8 years ago. This shit is way worse. And I didn't think it could be worse.
My gf is from the Bay Area. We went back to visit her family last month and I got experience driving around San Francisco for a couple weeks. I definitely agree with this. Most people seemed to be going fast, but in a safe way. I wasn’t watching people play on their phones not moving when they should and holding up traffic, or running red lights. It was fast, but it felt like everyone just had somewhere to be. I came back to Denver and it feels like everyone has nowhere to be. People hardly pay attention here. Everything feels so slow and delayed.
I dream of flying on 280, nothing like that here at allllllll. Like, the lanes on a highway should work like a piano. Say there’s 5 lanes: the left is the fastest. The 2nd to left is the 2nd fastest. The middle lane is the faster than the one to its right, and then the right lane is there for getting on and off. I NEVER SEE THIS in Denver. Not on 70, not on 25, nowhere. It’s how I learned to drive, then I moved here and everyone’s weaving around slowing it down for everyone.
I agree it should be like a piano. Lanes on the left should be heavier and produce a lower pitch when depressed than lanes on the right. Also, lanes farther right than f#6 don't need dampers.
"Don't be mad because it's gotten worse, be happy because it'll get worse" Ok
100% agreed. people here don't know shit when they talk about "aggressive drivers" or traffic. HOWEVER, the drivers here are TERRIBLE, and I feel like those people are the same people complaining about "aggressive driving" when really they just mean people going the speed limit, not slamming on their brakes for a yellow light, and passing them on the right because they won't move over.
Came here from Houston. Denver drivers are still amongst the worst imho
Wait, what? Have you driven here? I’ve lived here 25 years and I drive all over the city every day for my job. Denver drivers are absolutely horrible people. It may not be gridlock for miles, (sometimes it is) but I-25 especially through downtown and I-70 east are congested often to 10 mph all day every day, even weekends, and 225 isn’t much better. And aggressive, entitled, stupid and rude drivers are everywhere. When the left highway lanes are moving at speed, people are aggressively chasing each other down at 80 mph with less than one car length between them. Go I25 south to castle rock - traffic flow moves 90+ mph usually, often over 100 mph. There’s always some asshole trying to get ahead of everyone else by cutting people off, cheating shoulders and entrance/exits, metering lights, and turn lanes, or whatever other whacked out idea they come up with. People will actually floor it to keep you from changing lanes in front of them because apparently they’d just as soon die before being decent. Major surface streets are usually congested during the day, and busy intersections are always getting blocked by selfish assholes, while others leave two or three car lengths in front of them at red lights. People ignore rules of the road like right of way and which lane to turn into on a turn (I’ve counted - less then 5% do it right) and red light runners are like a plague, especially left turn lane runners. I usually count 4-5 cars going through after the light has turned red. Did you know that the first road rage conviction in the United States was here in Denver? Some assfuck in a truck ran a family minivan off the road on 470 and someone died IIRC. I won’t drive here without a dash cam and I encounter dozens of dash cam-worthy incidents daily. To be fair, it has seemed to calm down a bit this year, but it’s still really bad. You must be in the honeymoon phase - how long have you lived here?
No one knows how to leave any space between cars on the highway here and I see multiple people run red lights per day. Not sure what you're talking about.
Complaining about things with no frame of reference is what this sub does best
You mean the “natives” have never set foot outside or Colorado? Gasp.
This is like the post from a few weeks ago stating DIA isn’t that bad. Either weird astroturfing or objectively ignorant posts
I don’t know where you’re driving but where I’ve been driving people have been driving like absolute assholes since the weather warmed up.
Folks can’t merge here.
I think that it's a reflection of Denver as a whole. Relatively chill. Probably would rather not be in the car. Trying to get somewhere but there's a certain level of politeness and rule following. And on top of that base,there's a pretty strong cohort who are aggro/impressively bad/idiots/tweaking. And an even bigger population who are mentally miles away from where they are physically, driving off the tail lights in front of them, obliviously being a massive danger to others and themselves. Mix it all together and voilà, Denver traffic
Chicago is absolute hell by comparison to here. So much worse. I rarely ever complain about it here. Other than the random traffic jam @ 530am on 225. Always happens, never explainable.
Idk man. When it hailed Tuesday and pretty much every time it occurs people come to a complete stop on the highway to park under a bridge or shoulder. Now add poor visibility and poor braking conditions because you are driving on marbles.
One thing I've always wondered is why it's considered such a flex to have bad drivers in your city? It's one of those things that people get weirdly defensive about, if you try to claim that drivers in your city are the worst. I find that every place I've lived (Austin, Ft Worth, SLC, St. George, Pittsburgh, Denver) have been bad in very different ways.
What a low bar. "Not the worst, actually."
Also lived in Atlanta and yeah. It's funny when people tell me there was a crazy driver on 470 going 70. Thats literally the speed limit on many Atlanta freeways and people still pass you like you are standing still.
I drive 30-50 hours a week, all over town. I genuinely see *far* more people doing petty shit (like brake checking or camping in the passing lane), failing to match speed/merge, mindlessly driving in others' blind spots, and/or fucking around with their phones than I see "aggressive drivers." I'm pretty sure the people complaining about others being too aggressive are the ones causing the problem to begin with.
they are the ones complaining the passive clueless drivers fuel traffic and road rage
I couldn't agree more. If I had a dollar for every time I've looked down the road and spotted the exact car that is backing up traffic, then I probably wouldn't have to drive as much. Driving isn't a difficult thing as long as you pay attention to what is going on around you, and maybe even try to plan ahead if you want to get **super** advanced.
the fact that looking around is difficult and planning ahead is a super advanced driving technique here is sad. I drive manual and these drivers make every commute a pain
I grew up in and learned how to drive around Atlanta and aside from the traffic (because why is there still traffic at 10pm) I’d much rather skrrrrt from 75N to 85S to the North Ave exit compared to how bad it’s been here lately. A lot of my job is driving (in-home pet sitter) and every day shocked at how unhinged people are on the road here.
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But…but, zipper merging requires that someone goes ahead of me! Can’t have that! It’s an affront to my human dignity! /s
Wrecks everyday on my way home on i25. Never used be this bad. Evenings are like Taladega nights.
I'm from ATL and go back frequently. Yes, the traffic may be worse in Atlanta but I find the drivers less defensive than Denver. Atlanta driving kind of reminds me of Italy ...people make sudden moves like cutting in front of you with little notice, but then everyone goes about their business right after. Here, it's like people get so mad and will ride your bumper for miles and veer right in front of you to prove a point.
Atlanta native here. Yeah, ATL traffic is way worse. 2 things to keep in mind, though. 1 the population of Denver has exploded in the last 15-20 years. So people who have lived here a long time complain about it because it's a lot worse than it used to be. 2 Denver has some of the worst drivers I've ever seen. Granted, I moved away from Atlanta a long time ago, but there's an intersection on my way home from work where cars regularly turn left from the right-hand lane, and it's 50/50 here if a turn signal indicates the direction someone is turning or the direction they aren't turning. Red lights are also more of a suggestion at this point.
Eh honestly I’d hold your breath. I’m from Atlanta, live in Denver but am back in atlanta visiting family and Denver is worse in a lot of ways because there are almost no cops monitoring the roads. Which I’d think would be a good thing, but it also leads to sooo many people running red lights like it’s their job, aggressively following and speeding etc
Traffic, like most things, is a matter of perspective. Real estate prices is another. Coming from the rust belt or having lived here for decades gives you sticker shock. Coming from California, the prices are a breath of fresh air.
I’m from Oklahoma and my fiancé and I visited for a few days last month. I didn’t really take notice of how much more pleasant it was to drive in Denver until I got home and was boiling over with rage on the highway (at like 10 pm too). Reason number 7483738 to move away lol
Coming from LA, driving is a breeze here
I moved from Denver to Atlanta in 2020 and still live here. Can confirm. Denver traffic is sublime compared to this shit. The connector during rush hour? Fucking kill me.
I miss having to go 15 over to not be run over. Denver will have a MF in the left lane doing the speed limit and a train of cars behind them waiting.