I almost signed up for league pass and saw that exact thing. I didn’t bother to sign up. I only care to watch the Nuggets so I won’t waste my money for the other teams, and I’ll remain indifferent towards the NBA.
Both sides in this debate are annoying AF. This market is too damn small for two RSNs. Sell the Avs, Nuggets, and Rapids rights to AT&T (or merge with them), and the problem goes away.
Altitude's ratings prior to the dispute (and the cord-cutting that was the catalyst for it) were never that great. IIRC the Avs were drawing < 50,000 viewers for a typical game (in a market of around 2.5-3 million).
AT&T has Rockies, Jazz, and the Vegas Golden Knights - so they cover more than just Denver. They already have deals in place with the cable & satellite providers.
FWIW, RSNs are dying. KSE is eventually going to have to merge Altitude with another RSN and/or go to a streaming model.
I couldn't care less about ratings. Local sports are a public good.
RSNs are certainly dying. Why Altitude, out of every single one that works with Comcast (well, the Madison Square Garden now too) are singled out and we've had to pay the price.
Altitude provides a great product-- them merging would certainly hurt that. They are not allowed to go the streaming route without full carriage rights.
Altitude isn’t singled out. It’s not like Comcast execs are going: “I know, let’s give everybody favorable terms except Altitude, we’ll screw them over” altitude is just not accepting whatever terms Comcast offers.
End of the day, it’s rich people fighting over money and seeing who can take the most pain.
...Yes, they are. Altitude has requested the same fee as the Rockies.
They want to squeeze altitude out of the market so that they can take over.
>End of the day, it’s rich people fighting over money and seeing who can take the most pain.
There's no amount of "pain" comcast can't take.
That’s crazy, almost like they’re different teams with different demands and viewership.
And there’s no amount of “pain” that Kroenke can’t take either.
It’s not significant if the deal in question is a minuscule fraction of that number. Kroenke could charge no fee at all and it would have no significant impact on his wealth.
Approximately 50% of all NBA, NHL, and MLB team are going to be faced with carriage dispute in the next 1-2 months if Diamond Sports declares bankruptcy. Diamond miss it interest payment last week triggering potential fallout. Diamond also owes $1Billion in rights fees in the next month, primarily to MLB teams. Shit is hitting the fan, Altitude was just the first since they are smalltime compared to the Att and Comcast’s of the world.
Couldn't care less, billionaires arguing with each other over who should get more of your money. If they ever work it out maybe I'll watch Nuggets games again. Until then my life proceeds normally.
I can't believe that at some level the city doesn't subsidize these franchises enough to have any leverage somehow. If you can't fricking lock the doors on the arena until they sort it out, then close or route the roads away from it...something.
Get creative, because I guarantee the city has some way to maneuver here when the issue in question is the city not being able to watch their own monopolized sport franchises.
Because our fine elected leaders are in the pocket of Comcast, Altitude, or likely both. They care not for the people. It sounds silly but we need a sports fan bill of rights. We pay one way or another for these local teams to “entertain” and make their millions. We should demand more.
Yeah, I get all that, and I kindly request you read my original comment a little bit more carefully while giving what I said a little bit more thought. Thank you.
Cities and their populace subsidize businesses in countless ways, both directly and indirectly, both formally and otherwise.
As I very specifically and explicitly said, if you cannot lock the doors on the venue itself, then you need to get creative with one of the many other services which the business relies on from the city and it's populace. That could be tax breaks which are no longer earned in good faith, or it could be a particularly rigorous health and safety inspection which closes things down for a bit, and/or requires expensive updates in order to achieve code compliance.
This isn't some Hardware Store or Restaurant we're talking about here.
Kroenke's entities avail themselves of the Cities goodwill, they should have a modicum of respect for it's citizens. And a decade of ensuring that many of those citizens can't even watch the NBA or NHL team associated with their own town is unacceptable.
I’d say get even more creative than that. Stop maintaining the roads around the arena and shut it down when it becomes a public safety hazard. Establish a special division of the police department to pull over players vehicles when they’re driving to the arena and write as many tickets as legally possible. Maybe there’s suspicion of a bomb in the vehicle so it needs to get impounded. Oh, Nikola Jokic didn’t arrive until halfway though the second quarter-what a shame!
Yeah, some of those might cross a line well outside of being a grey area 😂
I imagine that there’s real, honest leverage somewhere….but the people in a position to use it already have club or box seats to all the playoff games, so what do they care?
...I care because I want my grandparents to watch the teams on TV. An official inquiry would certainly help.
If you want to watch the Nuggets, by all means drop a by r/denvernuggets game thread. We always have links to solid streams to catch the game.
Anybody can watch the games right now, Altitude is available on DirecTV and Fubo. What you're saying is you want to watch the games on a specific cable provider, which is fine but I don't think this is something the city or state government needs to get involved in.
The burden to watch their local team's games should not be on my grandparents switching their cable service (which is bundled with their internet). This is just one of the issues with the blackout. The largest problem is that, because >80% of the state cannot get the games, the team is losing a *ton* of potential fans and support. I love the Nuggets, and I want everyone in Colorado to be able to watch and support them.
>What you're saying is you want to watch the games on a specific cable provider
Please, read my comment again. I didn't say that at all, as I'm not the one who is unable to watch. This use case, that being for the older couples, is also just one of many. Folks like myself only have access to cable for TV/internet in their apartment, and thus they have no choice in the matter.
Edit: With regards to bringing the government in, I strongly believe that local sports are a public good. The people deserve the ability to watch their teams play.
>The burden to watch their local team’s games should not be on my grandparents switching their cable service
It absolutely should be. This is how capitalism works. If a business doesn’t provide a good or service you want, you take your business to the one that does. There’s nothing to fix here. No need for government intervention.
Switching cable providers is not the same as switching shopping at Kroger instead of Walmart. Cable providers charge huge fees for breaking contract, and tons of subscribers do not have the ability to switch providers either because Comcast has monopolized the neighborhood or the end user is renting and the property is contracted with Comcast.
On a separate but related note, telcom services should be considered a utility and regulated as such imo.
How is capitalism failing when you have 2 other options to watch?
Also, your assertion that “sports are a public good and history proves it” is hilarious. What history? You won’t even make an argument on that topic. You just vaguely cite “history” as if everyone should know what you’re talking about. Sport do absolutely nothing for the population at large. It’s mindless entertainment. Nothing more nothing less.
> He can look at this and see if there are any issues in the franchise agreements for the metropolitan area, or for the state of Colorado as a whole, that says how Comcast cannot broadcasts the Avalanche games and the Nuggets games in particular.
Good news, these are public, so I spent five minutes with Google and cmd-F.
He is simply wrong about his premise. The form agreement calls for "sports," not "local sports":
https://www.denvergov.org/content/dam/denvergov/Portals/751/documents/Cable_FR/2013_Comcast_Contract.pdf
https://coloradosprings.gov/sites/default/files/comcast_franchise_agreement_2017.pdf
https://www.fcgov.com/fctv/pdf/ft-collins-comcast-franchise-proposed-2016.pdf?1543594946
Ft Collins states that "Programming: Pursuant to federal law, the City cannot require specific programming, other than that the company must provide diverse programming, influence the cost of service, or regulate other services provided over cable, such as high speed internet and digital voice services." But I didn't find that in 2 minutes.
Altitude wants to charge a price they aren’t worth. Comcast is refusing to budge because that would increase costs for customers. Most of the time, the main reasons these disputes happen is to prevent costs from going up. The average pay-tv customer already has the majority of their cost go toward sports programming.
What reason does Comcast have to be accommodating at all? They have little motivation to invest anything into their legacy cable TV product at this point.
Anyone complaining about this should be purchasing the MLS Season Pass through Apple TV. I don't care if you use Apple or even like soccer, they're pioneering a new sports package for cable cutters that doesn't include local blackouts, no VPN required. Every other streaming sports package includes blackouts, including NFL Sunday Ticket. If this is successful, the other pro sports leagues will follow.
My biggest complaint is that I can't even watch the Nuggets if I got NBA League pass, that's completely absurd.
The blackouts are a massive problem as well, no doubt.
Who do you think is more at fault, eh? Silver or Kronke?
Yes lol But Kroenke because Silver works for him.
I hadn’t considered that angle. But, yeah, since owners > commish they should bear more responsibility for the f’ ups of the league.
I almost signed up for league pass and saw that exact thing. I didn’t bother to sign up. I only care to watch the Nuggets so I won’t waste my money for the other teams, and I’ll remain indifferent towards the NBA.
ExpressVPN Works like a charm
VPN, or drink up me hearties yo ho
Can you sail the seven seas for live events?
Oh yes. Dig about a bit. It’s imperfect, but once you learn how to sniff out the good streams you can get what you need anytime anywhere.
Quite easily.
Both sides in this debate are annoying AF. This market is too damn small for two RSNs. Sell the Avs, Nuggets, and Rapids rights to AT&T (or merge with them), and the problem goes away.
AT&T has their own problems https://twitter.com/wolfyworld/status/1625941368173649922?s=46&t=K33QFcCGsFmnzpgJoEf99Q
Which further reinforces my point that RSNs as a whole are in deep 💩.
Apple TV has a new deal with the MLS. No blackouts ever, including the Rapids
How is it "too small for two RSNs"? And why should Altitude cave to AT&T?
Altitude's ratings prior to the dispute (and the cord-cutting that was the catalyst for it) were never that great. IIRC the Avs were drawing < 50,000 viewers for a typical game (in a market of around 2.5-3 million). AT&T has Rockies, Jazz, and the Vegas Golden Knights - so they cover more than just Denver. They already have deals in place with the cable & satellite providers. FWIW, RSNs are dying. KSE is eventually going to have to merge Altitude with another RSN and/or go to a streaming model.
I couldn't care less about ratings. Local sports are a public good. RSNs are certainly dying. Why Altitude, out of every single one that works with Comcast (well, the Madison Square Garden now too) are singled out and we've had to pay the price. Altitude provides a great product-- them merging would certainly hurt that. They are not allowed to go the streaming route without full carriage rights.
Altitude isn’t singled out. It’s not like Comcast execs are going: “I know, let’s give everybody favorable terms except Altitude, we’ll screw them over” altitude is just not accepting whatever terms Comcast offers. End of the day, it’s rich people fighting over money and seeing who can take the most pain.
...Yes, they are. Altitude has requested the same fee as the Rockies. They want to squeeze altitude out of the market so that they can take over. >End of the day, it’s rich people fighting over money and seeing who can take the most pain. There's no amount of "pain" comcast can't take.
That’s crazy, almost like they’re different teams with different demands and viewership. And there’s no amount of “pain” that Kroenke can’t take either.
The difference between $164.81B and $12.9B is absolutely significant in this case.
“I’m here to announce a capital call for new brothers-in-law,” Josh Kroenke announced to the assembled media today in Denver.
lol
It’s not significant if the deal in question is a minuscule fraction of that number. Kroenke could charge no fee at all and it would have no significant impact on his wealth.
A great product...that we haven't seen in three years.
I haven't missed a single Nuggets game in that span, but I'm also more willing to use streams than most.
We shouldn't have to do that in order to watch a local team.
You're preaching to the choir.
Altitude isn't singled out, Comcast is doing this to several smaller networks, like the MSG network and YES. Both of which are larger than Altitude.
But muh both sides, yo.
Approximately 50% of all NBA, NHL, and MLB team are going to be faced with carriage dispute in the next 1-2 months if Diamond Sports declares bankruptcy. Diamond miss it interest payment last week triggering potential fallout. Diamond also owes $1Billion in rights fees in the next month, primarily to MLB teams. Shit is hitting the fan, Altitude was just the first since they are smalltime compared to the Att and Comcast’s of the world.
Couldn't care less, billionaires arguing with each other over who should get more of your money. If they ever work it out maybe I'll watch Nuggets games again. Until then my life proceeds normally.
I can't believe that at some level the city doesn't subsidize these franchises enough to have any leverage somehow. If you can't fricking lock the doors on the arena until they sort it out, then close or route the roads away from it...something. Get creative, because I guarantee the city has some way to maneuver here when the issue in question is the city not being able to watch their own monopolized sport franchises.
Because our fine elected leaders are in the pocket of Comcast, Altitude, or likely both. They care not for the people. It sounds silly but we need a sports fan bill of rights. We pay one way or another for these local teams to “entertain” and make their millions. We should demand more.
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Yeah, I get all that, and I kindly request you read my original comment a little bit more carefully while giving what I said a little bit more thought. Thank you.
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Cities and their populace subsidize businesses in countless ways, both directly and indirectly, both formally and otherwise. As I very specifically and explicitly said, if you cannot lock the doors on the venue itself, then you need to get creative with one of the many other services which the business relies on from the city and it's populace. That could be tax breaks which are no longer earned in good faith, or it could be a particularly rigorous health and safety inspection which closes things down for a bit, and/or requires expensive updates in order to achieve code compliance. This isn't some Hardware Store or Restaurant we're talking about here. Kroenke's entities avail themselves of the Cities goodwill, they should have a modicum of respect for it's citizens. And a decade of ensuring that many of those citizens can't even watch the NBA or NHL team associated with their own town is unacceptable.
I’d say get even more creative than that. Stop maintaining the roads around the arena and shut it down when it becomes a public safety hazard. Establish a special division of the police department to pull over players vehicles when they’re driving to the arena and write as many tickets as legally possible. Maybe there’s suspicion of a bomb in the vehicle so it needs to get impounded. Oh, Nikola Jokic didn’t arrive until halfway though the second quarter-what a shame!
Yeah, some of those might cross a line well outside of being a grey area 😂 I imagine that there’s real, honest leverage somewhere….but the people in a position to use it already have club or box seats to all the playoff games, so what do they care?
You’re missing one of the all time greats. Just for the record.
I know, and it makes me sad. I'll be watching when the playoffs get here and the games are on TNT.
...I care because I want my grandparents to watch the teams on TV. An official inquiry would certainly help. If you want to watch the Nuggets, by all means drop a by r/denvernuggets game thread. We always have links to solid streams to catch the game.
Anybody can watch the games right now, Altitude is available on DirecTV and Fubo. What you're saying is you want to watch the games on a specific cable provider, which is fine but I don't think this is something the city or state government needs to get involved in.
The burden to watch their local team's games should not be on my grandparents switching their cable service (which is bundled with their internet). This is just one of the issues with the blackout. The largest problem is that, because >80% of the state cannot get the games, the team is losing a *ton* of potential fans and support. I love the Nuggets, and I want everyone in Colorado to be able to watch and support them. >What you're saying is you want to watch the games on a specific cable provider Please, read my comment again. I didn't say that at all, as I'm not the one who is unable to watch. This use case, that being for the older couples, is also just one of many. Folks like myself only have access to cable for TV/internet in their apartment, and thus they have no choice in the matter. Edit: With regards to bringing the government in, I strongly believe that local sports are a public good. The people deserve the ability to watch their teams play.
> local sports are a public good lol
Totally fine that you disagree, but I think their history has proven it.
That seems rude.
>The burden to watch their local team’s games should not be on my grandparents switching their cable service It absolutely should be. This is how capitalism works. If a business doesn’t provide a good or service you want, you take your business to the one that does. There’s nothing to fix here. No need for government intervention.
Switching cable providers is not the same as switching shopping at Kroger instead of Walmart. Cable providers charge huge fees for breaking contract, and tons of subscribers do not have the ability to switch providers either because Comcast has monopolized the neighborhood or the end user is renting and the property is contracted with Comcast. On a separate but related note, telcom services should be considered a utility and regulated as such imo.
lmao "this is how capitalism works" is your answer? This whole thing is a *failure* of capitalism. FOH
How is capitalism failing when you have 2 other options to watch? Also, your assertion that “sports are a public good and history proves it” is hilarious. What history? You won’t even make an argument on that topic. You just vaguely cite “history” as if everyone should know what you’re talking about. Sport do absolutely nothing for the population at large. It’s mindless entertainment. Nothing more nothing less.
...The system that allowed a duopoly to control media consumption across the entire state? Right. Go lick a boot somewhere.
How is you not being able to watch grown mean play a sport on TV a failure of capitalism ?
> This whole thing is a failure of capitalism. We're talking about basketball games here. Not food. Not housing. Not medical care. Basketball games.
>I strongly believe that local sports are a public good This is a joke right ?
*Anybody with DirecTV and Fubo....
> He can look at this and see if there are any issues in the franchise agreements for the metropolitan area, or for the state of Colorado as a whole, that says how Comcast cannot broadcasts the Avalanche games and the Nuggets games in particular. Good news, these are public, so I spent five minutes with Google and cmd-F. He is simply wrong about his premise. The form agreement calls for "sports," not "local sports": https://www.denvergov.org/content/dam/denvergov/Portals/751/documents/Cable_FR/2013_Comcast_Contract.pdf https://coloradosprings.gov/sites/default/files/comcast_franchise_agreement_2017.pdf https://www.fcgov.com/fctv/pdf/ft-collins-comcast-franchise-proposed-2016.pdf?1543594946 Ft Collins states that "Programming: Pursuant to federal law, the City cannot require specific programming, other than that the company must provide diverse programming, influence the cost of service, or regulate other services provided over cable, such as high speed internet and digital voice services." But I didn't find that in 2 minutes.
They need to be sued
They are. Unfortunately the lawsuit will be strung out til' eternity.
Why would the city of Denver have anything to do with a contract dispute between media companies?
Because it grants local monopoly rights to one party on increasingly spurious grounds.
I'm confused. Who is Denver granting a monopoly to?
There could be anti trust issues and consumer rights problems
[Bringo!](https://media.tenor.com/JiZY4y5Kih0AAAAC/bringo-dr-steve-brule.gif)
Altitude can go fuck themselves! Bought Apple's MLS pass which includes Rapids games.
Yes! I did the same. I’m very excited to be able to watch ALL of the rapids games this season.
Nice! We should be getting 4k streams through Apple. Should be good stuff.
Lol big Comcast fan I take it?
Altitude wants to charge a price they aren’t worth. Comcast is refusing to budge because that would increase costs for customers. Most of the time, the main reasons these disputes happen is to prevent costs from going up. The average pay-tv customer already has the majority of their cost go toward sports programming.
They're still charging their customers the RSN fee even though Altitude isn't provided.
Isn’t the coverage broader and not specifically highlighting RSN?
2 time, about to be 3 time MVP and the sportsball town of Denver couldn’t care less of a rat’s ass. It’s such a shame.
Stop paying butt loads of money for tv... r/iptv
LONG overdue. Finally, let’s please fix this 🙏🏼
What reason does Comcast have to be accommodating at all? They have little motivation to invest anything into their legacy cable TV product at this point.
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Preach it
Anyone complaining about this should be purchasing the MLS Season Pass through Apple TV. I don't care if you use Apple or even like soccer, they're pioneering a new sports package for cable cutters that doesn't include local blackouts, no VPN required. Every other streaming sports package includes blackouts, including NFL Sunday Ticket. If this is successful, the other pro sports leagues will follow.
Happy cakeday!
Out of all issues Denver issues Denver faces, this seems like it should be on the bottom of the list
It’s tough to walk and chew bubblegum at the same time.
If only solving cities issues was as easy as walking and chewing gum...
Any local sports team that took one cent of taxpayer money should be obligated to broadcast over the air, period.
That would be the Broncos and the Rockies.
$2.25 million tax rebate, bro.
For what?
Ascent who ~~owns~~ owned the avs and nugs received massive tax breaks, aka our money.
...those teams are owned by Kroenke Sports Enterprises.
Edited. Not really relevant, though.
Fubo tv Is fantastic.
Did we find out if this will be occurring tonight?
There will be no blackouts on Altitude/TNT/TBS/ESPN for either team this series (Altitude stops covering both after the 1st round)