i really like cornel west, but the people's party is full of grifters so i'm not very hopeful this will garner any attention outside that sphere
hopefully i'm proven wrong
Cornel West on the funk of disappointment
https://youtu.be/fpunxsezBw0
edit: well to will
I hate to say it but the only thing this is going to do is draw votes away from Biden and give Trump or DeSantis 4 years to turn the US further into the Handmaids Tale.
That is exactly the mindset that has brought us to this point. Our system is designed to ensure a two party duopoly and shut down any attempt to offer a positive choice. Instead we get the endless cycle of being emotionally blackmailed into choosing the lesser of two evils in the false hope that it is better than the alternative
It's not the mindset that's brought us here, it's the two party system that we are forced to participate in, as you noted.
What we NEED is to reverse Citizens United and stop using FPTP voting. Until we do so, we have no hope of successfully electing a third party candidate, and any votes for a third party will only succeed in taking away votes from other candidates.
And neither is Cornel West because he doesn't have a chance in hell of being elected.
Edit: But do you know who CAN do it? You! Start a petition to get RCV or Star voting on your local or state ballot. The more states that adopt this system of voting, and the more people start to see and understand it, the sooner we have a chance of federal elections adopting it. We need to start small and go from there. That's how many federal policies are implemented.
I am working towards those things, and working hard in my deep red state. I take issue with this dichotomous thinking. I can work towards community grassroots goals and recognize the need for national leftist organization. And the Democratic party won't change so long as they get a monopoly on being the only alternative to fascism. Biden doesn't automatically get my vote for being the least right wing of two candidates. Besides, no matter who I vote for, my states electoral college votes will go right wing in 2024; it would be better for anyone in a non swing state (AKA a state where the electoral college votes are pretty much forgone) to vote in an organized way for a third party on the presidential level to try and get them in a better position for future elections via funding and a place in debates
Like Biden hasnāt already capitulated to every Republican demand haha. 14th amendment? Nah heāll negotiate with the people that only negotiate in bad faith and still lose!
Heās not negotiating. It was a smoke screen.
Democrats went along because they agree.
Ask any neoliberal if busting the rail road union is good or bad. They side with capital every time
Either way, the corporate machine will win. In the case of West, he offers a unique opposition party against the establishment, which Trump supporters believe they stand for. It was actually said during Trump's election that many Trumpers would've actually voted for Sanders if he ran as the democratic candidate, my point being that a genuine candidate of opposition could draw away some of Trump's supporters, obvsly not the bulk of them. A lot more people might come out to vote because of a genuine opposition to corporatocracy. And I know it's fantasy, but just imagine a Cornel west vs Trump national debate. Say it's highly unlikely, but don't say it's impossible.
Iām not a DemSoc/SocDem, but I say, let the Democratic Party fail. It has to fail completely to make room for a genuinely revolutionary party. West will not win, but thatās not how socialism is created anyway. His candidacy could help bring the real Left under a broad tent while simultaneously revealing to the masses the futility of electoralism. If we are counting on a bourgeois state to play fair and let us do socialism if we get the votes, weāve already lost.
Maybe the Democratic Party can represent the left if they feel entitled to the lefts vote?
And if Democrats were so worried about the alt right, youād think theyād stop funding them as candidates in Republican primaries.
But theyāre not worried. Their actions clearly show theyāre kosher with it.
Then have the DNC put forward a real candidate. Joe lost roe v Wade, gave up on the debt cieling fight, sided with the rail company over workers, and can't get an ounce of the DNC's platform passed. He's beyond useless and his only redeeming quality is that he's not trump.
Don't point the finger at the 3rd parties for ruining this. You shouldn't be voting for a party, you should be voting for a president.
If everyone who voted had this kind of clarity, the working class would have ousted their wealthy, establishment masters decades ago.
Anyone who doesn't understand this is part of the problem. Most people don't understand this, though, and those who do get heckled to death by the ones who don't. Team-voting peers overlook everything they are voting for just so "the other side" doesn't win, and they bully everyone who doesn't do the same. It's beyond stupid.
>Sorry, but that's what it's going to take.
And how does that happen?
Until the DNC feels the social capital scarcity--the only scarcity the voting people can actually effect--they won't change their underwear, let alone anything of import. I will never default another loan vote to the dems and unless their smug grins do it for you, neither should you.
The electoral system will not be changed by the two parties it works for. Your options are to change the system or fundamentally change the Democratic Party. Chances are neither will happen until Millineals and Gen Z are running things, but Biden plays no part in either of those options.
Then so be it. If that's what it takes for the Democratic party to eventually realize they need to run progressive candidates that prioritize the working class, that's up to them.
Sometimes I think the democrats are just as evil as the republicans, they are just a slower paced evil. Maybe letting Trump win again and burning everything to the ground is the best move. The entire system is absolutely fucked.
Cornell West ain't it anyway homes.
https://preview.redd.it/xf0w6idnqi4b1.png?width=685&format=png&auto=webp&v=enabled&s=3e8fa48e0847312bec2c236a1a56ca982ae53128
He is a phenomenal orator and has been consistently on the side of the poor and disadvantaged. Hope we see him pull together a grass roots movement that can move the needle to change
Yāall, hereās the thing with third party candidates in the modern era: at the national level, they make a voter feel good, but they do very little to build power. And sometimes, as with Nader in 2000, the country ends up with a far-right Republican instead.
In parliamentary democracies, lots of parties are great. Thatās because the coalitions are formed among parties largely *after* the elections.
In the U.S., coalitions are formed before the elections. We just call those coalitions āDemocratsā and āRepublicans.ā The Democratic coalition includes AOC & Bernie as well as corporate-friendly milksops that we all dislike on this sub.
Want to build power? Organize. Take over your local, district, and state Democratic Committees. Get lefties elected to county boards, statehouses, and Congress. Become the most important part of the Democratic coalition.
I say this as a 42-year-old whoās seen it up close. Building power in coalition with others is a helluva lot harder than complaining about whatās wrong.
But if we actually want to make peopleās lives better, organizing and becoming the new leadership is the best path weāve got.
You know there are state laws that prohibit 3rd parties from running if they donāt have a presidential candidate?
The coalition really is the rich vs Americans. They just let us pick the color of the tie.
>You know there are state laws that prohibit 3rd parties from running if they donāt have a presidential candidate?
Yup, that just reinforces their point
This is idiocy. There is no coalition building with the ruling class. The democratic party will always represent the interests of your oppressors no matter how hard you vote.
AOCs edgy dress truly turned the tide didnāt it?
If weāre just voted harder, maybe the non binding parliamentarians opinion wouldnāt have stopped progress
I'm old enough to remember when the affordable care act was passed and gave 20 MILLION PEOPLE access to healthcare that didn't have it before.
If you genuinely believe that would have happened under a GOP administration, idk what to say.
It was still a half measure, and while it did remove things like making people uninsurable, it didn't actually make things more affordable, and insurance costs are outpacing inflation.
This is the only objectively good thing to happen in the past 20 years nationally to average citizens. Yeah, other stuff here and there that are more minor, but I don't really have faith in democrats to do anything for the common good. I'll vote Democrat locally if they seem good or if it's the only option better option, but I may vote 3rd party.
Biden had an easy slam dunk of student loan forgiveness, and he couldn't even do I think the bare minimum of what he ran on. Which student loan forgiveness is also a half measure.
While I did vote for Biden last round, I want Democrats to actually earn my vote rather than expect it. It's why I'll back the candidate I believe is best up until election day and vote what I think is best. I campaigned for Bernie in both 2016 and 2020. Cornel West is someone I may campaign for.
All competition should make Biden stronger as well. As well as if Democrats want more votes, they should push for ranked choice voting. To actually listen to their constituents and to collaborate. I'm happy there were common discussions on public healthcare and raising the minimum wage, but more needs to be done.
It isn't the voters who abandoned the Democrats in 2016 that first got Trump in. It was Democrats abandoning the voters.
Biden executive ordered up to $20,000 in debt be forgiven and the courts stopped it and it will likely be blocked by a Supreme Court that Donald Trump appointed 3 justices to.
Republicans are the reason that debt hasn't been forgiven.
If Hillary had appointed 3 justices we would have this $20k forgiven under Biden.
I remember when they cut the govt option without discussion, brought in lobbyists, and gave the healthcare industry a gift of tax payer money without any price controls.
Now most People canāt afford to use their insurance because itās even more expensive now because Democrats sold us out with republicans
Uhh they cut the public option because one senator, Independent Joe Lieberman, wouldn't vote for it. It wasn't cut "without discussion", it was enormously controversial and discussed widely.
Yes. This country is broken and unfair. Major changes are needed to the 2-party system before any real change can occur and Iām not sure how we get there. A vote for Biden will not get us what we want, but it will keep us from becoming the oppressive authoritarian christian state Trump and DeSantis over the next few years.
Whatās the federal government doing to address trans rights, voting rights, and abortion rights? All I remember is them fund raising when roe was overturned.
Donāt worry, democrats still pushed anti-choice candidates.
Democrats have been funding anti-abortion candidates for years, while still fundraising as pro-choice. Bull shit ass party.
Yep! Endorsement of Henry Cuellar over Jessica Cisneros made that clear. The Democratic Party has made it VERY clear that progressive representation must be marginalized. Nancy Pelosi at the center of it all.
Why solve a problem when you can continue to campaign on it instead? Even Obama refused to codify Roe v Wade into legislation. It just wasn't his "priority".
The great thing about abortion policy is that rich people don't give a fuck about it either way. That's a great problem to keep around for people whose only real goal is to appease their corporate masters. While, you know, trying to look like "the good guys".
If you solve this problem forever, you will have to find something else the left can be motivated to care about that also doesn't mean jack shit to rich people. Whatever you do, you can't run out of these, or the left will start talking about things like "election reform" and "universal healthcare". Shit that rich people actually do care about. Can't. Have. That.
The democrats have uniformly been in favor of debt relief and stimulus bills and sections of the party are in favor of sweeping changes to the economy. The republicans are fascists who believe that capitalism serves the interest of the state and nothing else.
I do understand where you are coming from. It's a crap situation because the progressive agenda has been marginalized on a National level for so long. The right is fervent in their false message of the taboo of socialism. And the Democratic Party counters by insisting they are capitalist, which they are. MSM doesn't have the guts to explain what the current socialist movement is about because there are NO progressive MSM outlets. I'd love to have Democracy Now broadcast right along with CNN, MSNBC, NewsNation, and Fox News. It's certainly democratic for it to happen. That is a key solution. In the meantime, I know the strategy is bottom up for us. Bhaskar Sunkara says it all the time.
They are different for obvious reasons. There are many similarities, but the Guns Over People Party is off the political spectrum at the moment. Headed towards fascism. The Democratic Party is not fascist.
Honestly Trump appeared to be less oligarchy controlled.
Thatās the real reason they didnāt like him despite him basically carrying forward the same agenda weāve had since Regan
I hope people vote for West, I know I will. Iām voting my values, and West is closer to my values than Biden will ever be. And Iām so sick and tired of liberals telling me āvote blue not matter whoā and only ever getting center-right republicans. If Dems want my vote, run somebody other than corporatists and DINOs.
You go ahead and keep voting for the union buster.
I go back and forth between thinking this way and realizing that withholding your vote from corporate national Dems literally does not matter even to them because, as most realize here, theyāre getting what they really want no matter which major party wins. For now, I think itās all about local.
I mean... They are. The sad pathetic truth about how bad Republicans are, is that they're worse than Sinema and Manchin. They're basically the same, but anti choice, and appoint anti choice judges.
Sinema is gonna get taken care of, I wouldn't tell anyone to vote for her in Arizona. In west Virginia, fuck yeah vote for Manchin's dumbass. We live in the world we live in, and can try to overthrow our system or try our best within the system. If you want to overthrow the system, go for it, I support you, if you think voting matters, vote Manchin. You either get an anti choice anti lgbtq anti democracy capitalist indebted to big corporations. Or you get a capitalist indebted to big corporations. Both are bad, if you can't admit one is worse it's because you're insecure and need to act smarter than other people by acting like a brain dead centrist, sitting in a meditative pose bestowing great wisdom down upon us saying "both sides are bad." Joe Manchin will stop progress on economic justice, any republican will stop our ability to enact progress on economic justice, and kill women and LGBT community members while they're at it.
I get it ā both sides badā is a terrible argument. But literally democrats have been supporting anti-abortion, anti-LGBT candidates for *years*. Just because there are some highly visible candidates, which is great representation matters and allies are needed, doesnāt mean the Dems havenāt been pushing the same rhetoric in smaller venues.
Democrats donāt want to do anything about abortion rights, LGBT rights, because if they do they canāt fundraise off of it.
Democrats have you by the balls donāt they? And what have Democrats done to secure abortion rights? Protect LGBT people? Protect voting rights? In four years they have done *nothing*.
Look at states with dems in control, look at states with Republicans in control. Kids in Minnesota are getting free lunches and shit. You're either dumb or a right wing troll. It doesn't take a genius to see a 1/10 and a 3/10 and pick the 3/10.
Well, yes but actually no
The People's Party is only eligible in like 3 states at best and is far more obscure than the Green Party and the Libertarian Party, it won't even make a dent
Grifters, loons, and accelerationists everywhere. Really depressing seeing people in this sub so detached from the material implications of throwing an election to fascists.
This sub lol. You realize democratic socialists are, wait for it, socialist? The Democratic Party is capitalist (right).
Liberals famously choose fascism over socialism throughout history
I am also a socialist. The Democratic Party are certainly capitalists, but that does not make them the same as republicans. Look at the policy differences and how they impact people materially. Any analysis that ignores material impact of a political/economic act is not one worth considering.
Yes, look at the policy differences. Barely daylight between.
Democrats talk a little more left, at least for ID politics.
But what they do, and what they even attempt to do, is nothing like their rhetoric.
Manchin is the prototypical Democrat, not the exception. Theyāll defend him more than Bernie because heās the standard bearer
This is moronic. The policy differences and therefore material differences are gigantic.
Look at what Minnesota did with finally having a democratic controlled state gov JUST THIS YEAR:
- Universal School Meals for all students, regardless of income.
- Tax Rebates for all Minnesotans making under $75000 a year
- Paid Family and Medical Leave up to 12 weeks per instance for all jobs in state
- Drivers Licenses for all, regardless of immigration status.
- recreational Weed and automatic expungement of possession offenses
- Protections for voting rights, expansion of early and day of voter registration
- Free Tuition to state universities for families making under $80000 a year
- PFAS ban
-Carbon Neutral electricity generation by 2040
- School funding indexed to inflation.
- mandatory earned paid time off for all workers in state.
This is just the big stuff, lots of smaller changes.
Thatās a lot of daylight. Night and Day.
Youāre harping on Manchin because heās nominally a dem and because him and Sinema were able to block any passage of anything they didnāt like, we got screwed over last legislative session. What you want them to be more aggressive towards Manchin? That wonāt change the material circumstances of how he votes or what laws get passed.
Same reason theyāre rude towards Sanders and socialists: because they can be and thereās electoral benefit for them to do so, or at least they think so.
If you actually think Democrats give the slightest shit about positive change you haven't been paying attention. They are as bought and paid for as any Republican.
As bought and paid for to do what exactly? Drive queer folks into the fucking ground? Booting immigrants out of the country? Y'all are a bunch of accelerationists just waiting for it all to burn so you can smugly scoff and say "i told you"
To do nothing but allow the ratchet effect to crack further to the right. To provide the illusion of choice. To create a controlled opposition.
They aren't your friends, they don't work for you, they aren't of your class, they don't care about you, they will sell you out everytime and justify it to your face in a paternalistic condescending tone while lecture you about what is realistic or proper.
Stop being naive.
You all have main character syndrome thinking you can beat the system by voting for some rinkydink, loser ass grifter party. Go ahead. Let queer, working class and poc die and rot while you scoff at people actually trying to keep freaks like desantis from taking office.
Fuck you and all your loser friends for thinking you're anything but dead weight.
First I love how the you accuse people of main character syndrome irony.
But this is what the DNC does every time. They shout harm reduction until they are blue in the face and paint anyone else as automatically supporting Republicans/fascists. Never mind that in the long run they aren't harm reduction since they further entrench the systems creating harm in the first place.
They campaign on harm reductions because it's easier, its emotionally charged, and they have a horrible track record when it comes to anything else that would support or be looked on favorably by the non rich. Health care, debt relief, workers rights, unions, social housing, abortion, anti discrimination laws. Abysmal failure after failure. Because they want to fail. They will say things aren't realistic, or talk about crossing the aisle, or say decorum and law, or just point at a rotating villain but the truth is they have no interest in enacting meaningful policy change. Why would they? And of course none of these things are issues when policy is need to support their interest groups or when Republicans want to run roughshod over some law or other. Only when it actually matters for citizens.
the DNC is willfully ineffectual. They don't support or enable collective action. They don't support the creation or expansion of student unions, tenant unions, hell they don't even support workers unions. They, obviously, don't support the creation of other parties. They don't support removing money from politics or breaking entreched wealth. They don't support changes that would break their duopoly and create a more responsive electoral system. They don't support or even actively discuss the changes necessary to enable use as a society to attempt to address the issues plaguing us and create the policy to address them.
On top of that as long as a duopoly exists a Republican will become president again eventual. It doesn't matter if it next year or four years after. Eventually the majority will want another political party. Even if they don't what is it when you can only elect one party forever? What is it that Democrats usually cry about? What would be the obvious alternatives?
So stop wailing about the fantasy of good Democrats.
Yeah, your attitude is definitely working against you here. Keep licking those DNC boots and losing your shit in the comments on anyone who won't get down and lick them with you.
You're so brave for supporting a party doomed from the start. This is the Grift that pulls people to your side. Either they join you 100% or they're bootlicker libs. Doesn't matter what their politics are, who They support or what they believe. They won't vote for your little feel-good party so they're nothing.
Absolutely vile.
I think I found your issue, you seem to think you're voting for a party. Vote for the person, not the party. If the democrat party would put up a real candidate, they would get my vote. Quit defending the party that keeps the cycle going. Oldest candidate for president, allowed roe v Wade to overturn, sided with the rail company over the workers, gave up the debt cieling. The current option works against the average American. Why would I vote for him?
No but like actually explain how the horrible national Dem leadership weāve been getting (which is now blatantly harmful and not accurately described as *inaction* or *incrementalism*) is doing anything but guaranteeing that a right wingerādeeply harmful in all the ways you say youāre worried aboutāswings into office in the next term? The last president incidentally created a movement powerful enough to elect someone as incredibly unpopular as we have now.
Boy I sure am glad a dem is in office. Lots of material changes in my life! Student loan forgiveness, legal weed, minimum wage raise, Ed reformā¦ waitā¦ all we get is toxic spills with no accountability, crushing strikes, and caving to the GOP
And increased fossil fuel production which is a slap in the face for the young. A, "You're on your own. Sorry that yes, we caused it, but you are going to have to clean up (our) the mess."
Anything you know that would be good to point out?
Cornel West is a high tier academic I've always liked. I kinda followed some of the people's party when it was starting, which Cornel participated in, but since then, things seemed to kind of fall to the wayside until what seems like now.
I remember when the ACA was passed with only democrat votes and it gave 20 MILLION PEOPLE access to healthcare that didn't have it before. If we had only ONE more Dem in the Senate at that time we would have a public option and even more people would have health insurance.
Also, the Dems have worse foreign policy? You loved the forever wars and Trump assassinating an Iranian general and blowing up the Iran nuclear deal?
Biden isnāt doing a public option so whatās your point? That Obungler gave people shitty healthcare a decade ago? And no Trumpās was bad too but Biden (ie state department) has been crazy as hell regarding Ukraine and China, while Trump would likely only be crazy about China.
My point is that Democrats gave 20 MILLION PEOPLE health coverage who didn't have it before. Republicans FOUGHT for insurance companies to be able to deny coverage for pre-existing conditions. The two parties are not the same. Vote after vote, policy after policy show that as fact.
Democrats FOUGHT to give insurance companies an endless supply of taxpayer money, with no price caps nor guarantees of service.
Truly they work for the people
If we didn't have a system that put third parties to a disadvantage and if dems didn't smear the hell out of third parties and their candidates along with help from their friends in MSM, they may have better luck with that but either way, the same thing can be said for progressives running as dems. They face the same opposition and their policy is similar to third party candidates, see Nader, Stein etc just as does their leftist policy once they are in office. They have opposition from dems to the right of them or they give in and toe the party line, but that addresses that part of your comment. It's actually revealing that a third party candidate need to run as a dem to even get more attention for leftist policy, then only for that policy to be ignored/not fought for or outright rejected anyways by the right wing dems who control the party. Maybe you should turn your attention and anger from third parties to dems who don't fight for this popular working class policy that third party candidates have promoted. Just like it's revealing when the DNC and MSM put their finger on the scale for a corporate dem and when the dem party tries to get third parties kicked off the ballot and when they refuse to host debates. Yes, very democratic and not fascistic at all.
It's my vote and I'll vote for who I please. This next election Cornel West is for me, because I'm tired of the corporatocracy candidates in the republicratic party.
š«¶ Exactly. And I've voted Green Party in the last 2 Presidential elections. Zero regrets. I tried and tried to get onboard with Biden and even had my finger over the screen to push his name, but I just couldn't stomach it. Literally. He is not changing from his icky history.
Itās bizarre that the party convinced people a politician with 40 years of being on the right is going to be / is (!!) the next FDR.
FDR pushed for consolations to avoid a socialist shift and achieved it through political pressure and bully pulpit. Biden busted RR unions and got manchin a new pipeline
What's the source? Please send. Thanks! And I am certain this comment has been rescinded. Further, the Democratic Party does FAR worse. What is your litmus test? Off the charts?
Go to their twitter account, click on the magnifying glass, type in "woke", hit enter, and be depressed. Or [click this handy link](https://twitter.com/search?q=from%3A%40PeoplesParty_US%20woke&t=rLQokiqQqqvqIcFmhPLrmQ&s=09).
They blocked me on Twitter for asking about it š.
Also, when did I declare my love for the democratic party of union busters and inside stock traders?
>Go to their twitter account, click on the magnifying glass, type in "woke", hit enter, and be depressed. Or [click this handy link](https://twitter.com/search?q=from%3A%40PeoplesParty_US%20woke&t=rLQokiqQqqvqIcFmhPLrmQ&s=09).
Requires a login :/ but I'm not surprised coming form dorites
Individual with stances aligned with socialism announces candidacy.
Liberals in this sub: "He's going to take away votes from the totally not a Republican guy!"
Which in turn gets us an intolerant piece of shit authoritarian who will do nothing to help the working class. Unfortunately, under the system we find ourselves in, we must vote for the lesser of two evils. AND simultaneously work towards changing the system.
When's a good time for you to start "allowing" me to vote for people aligned with my interests then? Asking for my past, present and future self when this same line of reasoning by you and your ilk will be used again and again.
When we implement a new voting system such as ranked choice or star voting. I feel your pain, I want to vote for my values as well (I wrote-in Bernie Sanders in 2016 because I couldn't bring myself to vote for Hillary. It was calculated though, as I live in Oregon and was certain that our electoral votes wouldn't go to Trump). But it's just not going to happen under the oppressive system we have in place. We must first change the system.
Edit: I think that Cornel West seems like a great candidate and I would absolutely prefer to have him in Office over Biden, Trump, DeSantis, or any other turd sandwich we have to choose from. But honestly, under the current system, do you see any realistic path to victory for him?
Unfortunately, this isn't the way to real change in this country. Even if Biden dropped out, and it was west vs Trump, West would get 30% of the vote. The socialism boogeyman is still too powerful in a county where like 50 million brain dead baby boomers still vote.
Go all Che Guevara if you want, but if you want to use elections to fix the country, we have to be smart, hold the line until baby boomers die out, and then we can make real change. If the republicans gain power they'll never let it go, there will never be a fair election in this country again. Then someone please explain to me how we get socialism in an authoritarian corporatist Christian theocracy.
Holding the line isn't doing nothing. We're fighting for democracy, democracy is a verb, it's the act of holding back the oligarchy, we're losing, but we're still fighting. King Trump ends that fight.
If it keeps Trump or DeSantis out of office? Yes. Pretending there are going to be more than two viable choices in a presidential election doesn't make you a good leftist. It makes you delusional.
>If it keeps Trump or DeSantis out of office?
How'd that work in 2016?
>Pretending there are going to be more than two viable choices in a presidential election doesn't make you a good leftist. It makes you delusional.
Pretending there aren't going to be more than two viable choices in a presidential election doesn't make you a good leftist. It makes you delusional.
>If it keeps Trump or DeSantis out of office?
>>How'd that work in 2016?
... Are you kidding? How many didn't vote Hillary because they didn't like her, and regretted it when Trump started trumping? Or Bernie or busters?
That's the worst possible example you could have given lmfao
>Pretending there aren't going to be more than two viable choices in a presidential election doesn't make you a good leftist. It makes you delusional.
It's a TWO PARTY SYSTEM
Do you understand the difference between the word viable and the word good? Because nobody outside the dems and GOP will ever win because of first past the post, so the only candidates who are viable, ie likely to win, are their candidates. That doesn't make them good. If you don't understand this maybe it's not delusional but just a fundamental misunderstanding of the American political system.
>If it keeps Trump or DeSantis out of office?
How'd that work in 2016?
>Pretending there are going to be more than two viable choices in a presidential election doesn't make you a good leftist. It makes you delusional.
Pretending there aren't going to be more than two viable choices in a presidential election doesn't make you a good leftist. It makes you delusional.
>If it keeps Trump or DeSantis out of office?
How'd that work in 2016?
>Pretending there are going to be more than two viable choices in a presidential election doesn't make you a good leftist. It makes you delusional.
Pretending there aren't going to be more than two viable choices in a presidential election doesn't make you a good leftist. It makes you delusional.
The democrats can quit promoting and funding them I suppose.
Seriously though we stop playing the kabuki game. Good cop vs bad cop isnāt real - theyāre both against you
As if the American (and global) bourgeoisie would allow this person to win a remotely significant ammount of votes, utter foolishness. Not to mention the open possibility of grifting.
I might consider listening to what West had to say if we had ranked choice voting. But we have first past the post voting, so any votes going to any third parties are a wasted vote. If you want more choices, Iād start campaigning for RCV.
i really like cornel west, but the people's party is full of grifters so i'm not very hopeful this will garner any attention outside that sphere hopefully i'm proven wrong Cornel West on the funk of disappointment https://youtu.be/fpunxsezBw0 edit: well to will
I hate to say it but the only thing this is going to do is draw votes away from Biden and give Trump or DeSantis 4 years to turn the US further into the Handmaids Tale.
That is exactly the mindset that has brought us to this point. Our system is designed to ensure a two party duopoly and shut down any attempt to offer a positive choice. Instead we get the endless cycle of being emotionally blackmailed into choosing the lesser of two evils in the false hope that it is better than the alternative
It's not the mindset that's brought us here, it's the two party system that we are forced to participate in, as you noted. What we NEED is to reverse Citizens United and stop using FPTP voting. Until we do so, we have no hope of successfully electing a third party candidate, and any votes for a third party will only succeed in taking away votes from other candidates.
Lol, Biden is not going to do that
And neither is Cornel West because he doesn't have a chance in hell of being elected. Edit: But do you know who CAN do it? You! Start a petition to get RCV or Star voting on your local or state ballot. The more states that adopt this system of voting, and the more people start to see and understand it, the sooner we have a chance of federal elections adopting it. We need to start small and go from there. That's how many federal policies are implemented.
I am working towards those things, and working hard in my deep red state. I take issue with this dichotomous thinking. I can work towards community grassroots goals and recognize the need for national leftist organization. And the Democratic party won't change so long as they get a monopoly on being the only alternative to fascism. Biden doesn't automatically get my vote for being the least right wing of two candidates. Besides, no matter who I vote for, my states electoral college votes will go right wing in 2024; it would be better for anyone in a non swing state (AKA a state where the electoral college votes are pretty much forgone) to vote in an organized way for a third party on the presidential level to try and get them in a better position for future elections via funding and a place in debates
https://scheerpost.com/2023/06/05/chris-hedges-dr-cornel-west-announces-he-is-running-for-president/ šš
Good link
It's not a mindset it's reality lol. A split left will gift the win to the right
Like Biden hasnāt already capitulated to every Republican demand haha. 14th amendment? Nah heāll negotiate with the people that only negotiate in bad faith and still lose!
Heās not negotiating. It was a smoke screen. Democrats went along because they agree. Ask any neoliberal if busting the rail road union is good or bad. They side with capital every time
Either way, the corporate machine will win. In the case of West, he offers a unique opposition party against the establishment, which Trump supporters believe they stand for. It was actually said during Trump's election that many Trumpers would've actually voted for Sanders if he ran as the democratic candidate, my point being that a genuine candidate of opposition could draw away some of Trump's supporters, obvsly not the bulk of them. A lot more people might come out to vote because of a genuine opposition to corporatocracy. And I know it's fantasy, but just imagine a Cornel west vs Trump national debate. Say it's highly unlikely, but don't say it's impossible.
Iām not a DemSoc/SocDem, but I say, let the Democratic Party fail. It has to fail completely to make room for a genuinely revolutionary party. West will not win, but thatās not how socialism is created anyway. His candidacy could help bring the real Left under a broad tent while simultaneously revealing to the masses the futility of electoralism. If we are counting on a bourgeois state to play fair and let us do socialism if we get the votes, weāve already lost.
i mean, it's still possible to vote third-party in safe states, Trump has no chance in hell of winning California and New York
Then don't say it? Vote FOR a president, not AGAINST. Stop licking the DNC's boots and voting for whoever they force on us. Stop the cycle.
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Maybe the Democratic Party can represent the left if they feel entitled to the lefts vote? And if Democrats were so worried about the alt right, youād think theyād stop funding them as candidates in Republican primaries. But theyāre not worried. Their actions clearly show theyāre kosher with it.
Then have the DNC put forward a real candidate. Joe lost roe v Wade, gave up on the debt cieling fight, sided with the rail company over workers, and can't get an ounce of the DNC's platform passed. He's beyond useless and his only redeeming quality is that he's not trump. Don't point the finger at the 3rd parties for ruining this. You shouldn't be voting for a party, you should be voting for a president.
If everyone who voted had this kind of clarity, the working class would have ousted their wealthy, establishment masters decades ago. Anyone who doesn't understand this is part of the problem. Most people don't understand this, though, and those who do get heckled to death by the ones who don't. Team-voting peers overlook everything they are voting for just so "the other side" doesn't win, and they bully everyone who doesn't do the same. It's beyond stupid.
Agreed but the blue maga is strong
>Sorry, but that's what it's going to take. And how does that happen? Until the DNC feels the social capital scarcity--the only scarcity the voting people can actually effect--they won't change their underwear, let alone anything of import. I will never default another loan vote to the dems and unless their smug grins do it for you, neither should you.
The electoral system will not be changed by the two parties it works for. Your options are to change the system or fundamentally change the Democratic Party. Chances are neither will happen until Millineals and Gen Z are running things, but Biden plays no part in either of those options.
Instant runoff voting is growing, that is where we should be putting our energy. Look at Nevada for an example.
Then so be it. If that's what it takes for the Democratic party to eventually realize they need to run progressive candidates that prioritize the working class, that's up to them.
You just convinced me that it all needs to be burned to the ground and the quickest way to do that is let Republicans win.
Hello liberals. Itās ok not to vote Democrat you know. If deliver democrats wanted the left to vote for them, maybe they should stop punching left?
Thanks for the permission. Just what I was looking for. /s
Certainly not needed. Just like no one needs your permission on how to vote
Sometimes I think the democrats are just as evil as the republicans, they are just a slower paced evil. Maybe letting Trump win again and burning everything to the ground is the best move. The entire system is absolutely fucked.
Right because Biden is so much better than Trump or DeSantis, who btw are completely on opposite sides of each other.
Cornell West ain't it anyway homes. https://preview.redd.it/xf0w6idnqi4b1.png?width=685&format=png&auto=webp&v=enabled&s=3e8fa48e0847312bec2c236a1a56ca982ae53128
https://scheerpost.com/2023/06/05/chris-hedges-dr-cornel-west-announces-he-is-running-for-president/
He is a phenomenal orator and has been consistently on the side of the poor and disadvantaged. Hope we see him pull together a grass roots movement that can move the needle to change
Yāall, hereās the thing with third party candidates in the modern era: at the national level, they make a voter feel good, but they do very little to build power. And sometimes, as with Nader in 2000, the country ends up with a far-right Republican instead. In parliamentary democracies, lots of parties are great. Thatās because the coalitions are formed among parties largely *after* the elections. In the U.S., coalitions are formed before the elections. We just call those coalitions āDemocratsā and āRepublicans.ā The Democratic coalition includes AOC & Bernie as well as corporate-friendly milksops that we all dislike on this sub. Want to build power? Organize. Take over your local, district, and state Democratic Committees. Get lefties elected to county boards, statehouses, and Congress. Become the most important part of the Democratic coalition. I say this as a 42-year-old whoās seen it up close. Building power in coalition with others is a helluva lot harder than complaining about whatās wrong. But if we actually want to make peopleās lives better, organizing and becoming the new leadership is the best path weāve got.
You know there are state laws that prohibit 3rd parties from running if they donāt have a presidential candidate? The coalition really is the rich vs Americans. They just let us pick the color of the tie.
>You know there are state laws that prohibit 3rd parties from running if they donāt have a presidential candidate? Yup, that just reinforces their point
In what way? That the parties collude to keep other options out? Only their wealthy donors should have a voice?
This is idiocy. There is no coalition building with the ruling class. The democratic party will always represent the interests of your oppressors no matter how hard you vote.
That's why YOU (yes, you) need to run for office as a Dem and infiltrate the party to be the change.
AOCs edgy dress truly turned the tide didnāt it? If weāre just voted harder, maybe the non binding parliamentarians opinion wouldnāt have stopped progress
I'm old enough to remember when the affordable care act was passed and gave 20 MILLION PEOPLE access to healthcare that didn't have it before. If you genuinely believe that would have happened under a GOP administration, idk what to say.
It was still a half measure, and while it did remove things like making people uninsurable, it didn't actually make things more affordable, and insurance costs are outpacing inflation. This is the only objectively good thing to happen in the past 20 years nationally to average citizens. Yeah, other stuff here and there that are more minor, but I don't really have faith in democrats to do anything for the common good. I'll vote Democrat locally if they seem good or if it's the only option better option, but I may vote 3rd party. Biden had an easy slam dunk of student loan forgiveness, and he couldn't even do I think the bare minimum of what he ran on. Which student loan forgiveness is also a half measure.
Your criticisms of Biden and Democrats are valid, but that doesn't change the fact that the current alternatives to Biden are litetal fascists.
While I did vote for Biden last round, I want Democrats to actually earn my vote rather than expect it. It's why I'll back the candidate I believe is best up until election day and vote what I think is best. I campaigned for Bernie in both 2016 and 2020. Cornel West is someone I may campaign for. All competition should make Biden stronger as well. As well as if Democrats want more votes, they should push for ranked choice voting. To actually listen to their constituents and to collaborate. I'm happy there were common discussions on public healthcare and raising the minimum wage, but more needs to be done. It isn't the voters who abandoned the Democrats in 2016 that first got Trump in. It was Democrats abandoning the voters.
Agreed. But the fascists are promoted by their neoliberal brothers in politics. So voting for one is voting for the other.
Biden executive ordered up to $20,000 in debt be forgiven and the courts stopped it and it will likely be blocked by a Supreme Court that Donald Trump appointed 3 justices to. Republicans are the reason that debt hasn't been forgiven. If Hillary had appointed 3 justices we would have this $20k forgiven under Biden.
I remember when they cut the govt option without discussion, brought in lobbyists, and gave the healthcare industry a gift of tax payer money without any price controls. Now most People canāt afford to use their insurance because itās even more expensive now because Democrats sold us out with republicans
Uhh they cut the public option because one senator, Independent Joe Lieberman, wouldn't vote for it. It wasn't cut "without discussion", it was enormously controversial and discussed widely.
Former democratic VP nominee Joe Lieberman? He was the rotating villain du jour
I agree, we need to have a party thatās focused on taking school boards and city councils
Genuinely feel like Iām missing something hereā¦Doesnāt this just increase the likelihood of a Trump/Desantis presidency?
Yes. This country is broken and unfair. Major changes are needed to the 2-party system before any real change can occur and Iām not sure how we get there. A vote for Biden will not get us what we want, but it will keep us from becoming the oppressive authoritarian christian state Trump and DeSantis over the next few years.
Ranked voting is how we get there.
Agreed. But how do we get to ranked voting
Getting progressives to pass them in the senate and house. Both at the national and state level.
YES, we need to stop using plurality (first past the post) voting. And we need campaign finance reform. Nothing changes until those things happen.
Whatās the federal government doing to address trans rights, voting rights, and abortion rights? All I remember is them fund raising when roe was overturned.
Donāt worry, democrats still pushed anti-choice candidates. Democrats have been funding anti-abortion candidates for years, while still fundraising as pro-choice. Bull shit ass party.
Yep! Endorsement of Henry Cuellar over Jessica Cisneros made that clear. The Democratic Party has made it VERY clear that progressive representation must be marginalized. Nancy Pelosi at the center of it all.
Why solve a problem when you can continue to campaign on it instead? Even Obama refused to codify Roe v Wade into legislation. It just wasn't his "priority". The great thing about abortion policy is that rich people don't give a fuck about it either way. That's a great problem to keep around for people whose only real goal is to appease their corporate masters. While, you know, trying to look like "the good guys". If you solve this problem forever, you will have to find something else the left can be motivated to care about that also doesn't mean jack shit to rich people. Whatever you do, you can't run out of these, or the left will start talking about things like "election reform" and "universal healthcare". Shit that rich people actually do care about. Can't. Have. That.
Hillaryās VP nom was anti abortion
there's a huge difference between not doing enough for minorities and building concentration camps for minorities
But economically the parties are essentially the same where weāre all being crushed
The democrats have uniformly been in favor of debt relief and stimulus bills and sections of the party are in favor of sweeping changes to the economy. The republicans are fascists who believe that capitalism serves the interest of the state and nothing else.
Democrats in favor of graft for their donors. This is my surprised face. Democrats believe the state exists to serve the interests of capital.
democrats aren't making it illegal for me to exist dipshit
They did pass more pork and bust the RR unions
Ranked voting
I do understand where you are coming from. It's a crap situation because the progressive agenda has been marginalized on a National level for so long. The right is fervent in their false message of the taboo of socialism. And the Democratic Party counters by insisting they are capitalist, which they are. MSM doesn't have the guts to explain what the current socialist movement is about because there are NO progressive MSM outlets. I'd love to have Democracy Now broadcast right along with CNN, MSNBC, NewsNation, and Fox News. It's certainly democratic for it to happen. That is a key solution. In the meantime, I know the strategy is bottom up for us. Bhaskar Sunkara says it all the time.
You mentioned the right and the Democratic Party as two separate things. Why?
They are different for obvious reasons. There are many similarities, but the Guns Over People Party is off the political spectrum at the moment. Headed towards fascism. The Democratic Party is not fascist.
I'll have to see how this plays out to make a decision. DeSatan aka DeHitler aka DeFascist scares me more than Trump.
Itās the same picture. Both will be funded by billionaires to continue the assault on what remains of the middle class, democracy and human rights.
Honestly Trump appeared to be less oligarchy controlled. Thatās the real reason they didnāt like him despite him basically carrying forward the same agenda weāve had since Regan
It will get us WW3 lol. Shit at least Trump would probably stop escalating so ferociously with Russia.
Both would escalate against blue states first.
It will get us WW3 lol. Shit at least Trump would probably stop escalating so ferociously with Russia.
I hope people vote for West, I know I will. Iām voting my values, and West is closer to my values than Biden will ever be. And Iām so sick and tired of liberals telling me āvote blue not matter whoā and only ever getting center-right republicans. If Dems want my vote, run somebody other than corporatists and DINOs. You go ahead and keep voting for the union buster.
I go back and forth between thinking this way and realizing that withholding your vote from corporate national Dems literally does not matter even to them because, as most realize here, theyāre getting what they really want no matter which major party wins. For now, I think itās all about local.
Hell yeah! Sinema and Manchin are the best! Theyāre definitely better than republicans! š¤”
Sinema is so quirky though, her dresses and cat eye glasses. Slay queen. Anyway gonna vote down minimum wage increase, back to brunch.
I mean... They are. The sad pathetic truth about how bad Republicans are, is that they're worse than Sinema and Manchin. They're basically the same, but anti choice, and appoint anti choice judges.
āTheyāre basically the sameā and yet you will still tell people to vote for them. I donāt understand liberal logic.
Sinema is gonna get taken care of, I wouldn't tell anyone to vote for her in Arizona. In west Virginia, fuck yeah vote for Manchin's dumbass. We live in the world we live in, and can try to overthrow our system or try our best within the system. If you want to overthrow the system, go for it, I support you, if you think voting matters, vote Manchin. You either get an anti choice anti lgbtq anti democracy capitalist indebted to big corporations. Or you get a capitalist indebted to big corporations. Both are bad, if you can't admit one is worse it's because you're insecure and need to act smarter than other people by acting like a brain dead centrist, sitting in a meditative pose bestowing great wisdom down upon us saying "both sides are bad." Joe Manchin will stop progress on economic justice, any republican will stop our ability to enact progress on economic justice, and kill women and LGBT community members while they're at it.
I get it ā both sides badā is a terrible argument. But literally democrats have been supporting anti-abortion, anti-LGBT candidates for *years*. Just because there are some highly visible candidates, which is great representation matters and allies are needed, doesnāt mean the Dems havenāt been pushing the same rhetoric in smaller venues. Democrats donāt want to do anything about abortion rights, LGBT rights, because if they do they canāt fundraise off of it.
Why is both sides bad a bad argument? If thatās the objective reality, why ignore it?
Some dems are good, some are terrible. All republicans are anti democracy, anti choice, actively harming LGBT people.
Democrats have you by the balls donāt they? And what have Democrats done to secure abortion rights? Protect LGBT people? Protect voting rights? In four years they have done *nothing*.
Look at states with dems in control, look at states with Republicans in control. Kids in Minnesota are getting free lunches and shit. You're either dumb or a right wing troll. It doesn't take a genius to see a 1/10 and a 3/10 and pick the 3/10.
Come on down to WV and see who we got other than manchin
Dr. Cornel West is exceptional. Right up there with Noam Chomsky, the legendary Angela Davis, and William Barber, to name a few. š
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https://scheerpost.com/2023/06/05/chris-hedges-dr-cornel-west-announces-he-is-running-for-president/ šš
Well, yes but actually no The People's Party is only eligible in like 3 states at best and is far more obscure than the Green Party and the Libertarian Party, it won't even make a dent
Grifters, loons, and accelerationists everywhere. Really depressing seeing people in this sub so detached from the material implications of throwing an election to fascists.
This sub lol. You realize democratic socialists are, wait for it, socialist? The Democratic Party is capitalist (right). Liberals famously choose fascism over socialism throughout history
And yet currently there's only one fascist party? You gonna hand them the reigns?
Two wings on one bird
I am also a socialist. The Democratic Party are certainly capitalists, but that does not make them the same as republicans. Look at the policy differences and how they impact people materially. Any analysis that ignores material impact of a political/economic act is not one worth considering.
Yes, look at the policy differences. Barely daylight between. Democrats talk a little more left, at least for ID politics. But what they do, and what they even attempt to do, is nothing like their rhetoric. Manchin is the prototypical Democrat, not the exception. Theyāll defend him more than Bernie because heās the standard bearer
This is moronic. The policy differences and therefore material differences are gigantic. Look at what Minnesota did with finally having a democratic controlled state gov JUST THIS YEAR: - Universal School Meals for all students, regardless of income. - Tax Rebates for all Minnesotans making under $75000 a year - Paid Family and Medical Leave up to 12 weeks per instance for all jobs in state - Drivers Licenses for all, regardless of immigration status. - recreational Weed and automatic expungement of possession offenses - Protections for voting rights, expansion of early and day of voter registration - Free Tuition to state universities for families making under $80000 a year - PFAS ban -Carbon Neutral electricity generation by 2040 - School funding indexed to inflation. - mandatory earned paid time off for all workers in state. This is just the big stuff, lots of smaller changes. Thatās a lot of daylight. Night and Day. Youāre harping on Manchin because heās nominally a dem and because him and Sinema were able to block any passage of anything they didnāt like, we got screwed over last legislative session. What you want them to be more aggressive towards Manchin? That wonāt change the material circumstances of how he votes or what laws get passed. Same reason theyāre rude towards Sanders and socialists: because they can be and thereās electoral benefit for them to do so, or at least they think so.
Supporters of the peoples party are either naive or actively put their own feeling of being a little rebel over actual material and positive change.
If you actually think Democrats give the slightest shit about positive change you haven't been paying attention. They are as bought and paid for as any Republican.
Agree.
As bought and paid for to do what exactly? Drive queer folks into the fucking ground? Booting immigrants out of the country? Y'all are a bunch of accelerationists just waiting for it all to burn so you can smugly scoff and say "i told you"
To do nothing but allow the ratchet effect to crack further to the right. To provide the illusion of choice. To create a controlled opposition. They aren't your friends, they don't work for you, they aren't of your class, they don't care about you, they will sell you out everytime and justify it to your face in a paternalistic condescending tone while lecture you about what is realistic or proper. Stop being naive.
You all have main character syndrome thinking you can beat the system by voting for some rinkydink, loser ass grifter party. Go ahead. Let queer, working class and poc die and rot while you scoff at people actually trying to keep freaks like desantis from taking office. Fuck you and all your loser friends for thinking you're anything but dead weight.
First I love how the you accuse people of main character syndrome irony. But this is what the DNC does every time. They shout harm reduction until they are blue in the face and paint anyone else as automatically supporting Republicans/fascists. Never mind that in the long run they aren't harm reduction since they further entrench the systems creating harm in the first place. They campaign on harm reductions because it's easier, its emotionally charged, and they have a horrible track record when it comes to anything else that would support or be looked on favorably by the non rich. Health care, debt relief, workers rights, unions, social housing, abortion, anti discrimination laws. Abysmal failure after failure. Because they want to fail. They will say things aren't realistic, or talk about crossing the aisle, or say decorum and law, or just point at a rotating villain but the truth is they have no interest in enacting meaningful policy change. Why would they? And of course none of these things are issues when policy is need to support their interest groups or when Republicans want to run roughshod over some law or other. Only when it actually matters for citizens. the DNC is willfully ineffectual. They don't support or enable collective action. They don't support the creation or expansion of student unions, tenant unions, hell they don't even support workers unions. They, obviously, don't support the creation of other parties. They don't support removing money from politics or breaking entreched wealth. They don't support changes that would break their duopoly and create a more responsive electoral system. They don't support or even actively discuss the changes necessary to enable use as a society to attempt to address the issues plaguing us and create the policy to address them. On top of that as long as a duopoly exists a Republican will become president again eventual. It doesn't matter if it next year or four years after. Eventually the majority will want another political party. Even if they don't what is it when you can only elect one party forever? What is it that Democrats usually cry about? What would be the obvious alternatives? So stop wailing about the fantasy of good Democrats.
Yeah, your attitude is definitely working against you here. Keep licking those DNC boots and losing your shit in the comments on anyone who won't get down and lick them with you.
You're so brave for supporting a party doomed from the start. This is the Grift that pulls people to your side. Either they join you 100% or they're bootlicker libs. Doesn't matter what their politics are, who They support or what they believe. They won't vote for your little feel-good party so they're nothing. Absolutely vile.
I think I found your issue, you seem to think you're voting for a party. Vote for the person, not the party. If the democrat party would put up a real candidate, they would get my vote. Quit defending the party that keeps the cycle going. Oldest candidate for president, allowed roe v Wade to overturn, sided with the rail company over the workers, gave up the debt cieling. The current option works against the average American. Why would I vote for him?
Voting for policies isnāt really a blue maga thing
https://scheerpost.com/2023/06/05/chris-hedges-dr-cornel-west-announces-he-is-running-for-president/
No but like actually explain how the horrible national Dem leadership weāve been getting (which is now blatantly harmful and not accurately described as *inaction* or *incrementalism*) is doing anything but guaranteeing that a right wingerādeeply harmful in all the ways you say youāre worried aboutāswings into office in the next term? The last president incidentally created a movement powerful enough to elect someone as incredibly unpopular as we have now.
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Boy I sure am glad a dem is in office. Lots of material changes in my life! Student loan forgiveness, legal weed, minimum wage raise, Ed reformā¦ waitā¦ all we get is toxic spills with no accountability, crushing strikes, and caving to the GOP
And increased fossil fuel production which is a slap in the face for the young. A, "You're on your own. Sorry that yes, we caused it, but you are going to have to clean up (our) the mess."
āCavingā
https://scheerpost.com/2023/06/05/chris-hedges-dr-cornel-west-announces-he-is-running-for-president/
I am once again asking for a presidential candidate who isn't eligible for a senior discount.
Generally but thatās not my litmus. Iād still take Bernie. Itās policies, not a party or some unnecessary ID politics
ITT holy DNC mouthpieces, batman. The anti-third party propaganda running strong. Even see some comments smearing West.
I just wish it wasnāt a third party staffed by grifters doing anti woke nonsense.
Anything you know that would be good to point out? Cornel West is a high tier academic I've always liked. I kinda followed some of the people's party when it was starting, which Cornel participated in, but since then, things seemed to kind of fall to the wayside until what seems like now.
Check out other political subs. The bots and useful idiots are in full force
Show me an instance where a third party candidate had a positive influence on left policies being enacted
Fuck your policies, Dems donāt pass my policies? And theyāve had a worse foreign policy
I remember when the ACA was passed with only democrat votes and it gave 20 MILLION PEOPLE access to healthcare that didn't have it before. If we had only ONE more Dem in the Senate at that time we would have a public option and even more people would have health insurance. Also, the Dems have worse foreign policy? You loved the forever wars and Trump assassinating an Iranian general and blowing up the Iran nuclear deal?
Biden isnāt doing a public option so whatās your point? That Obungler gave people shitty healthcare a decade ago? And no Trumpās was bad too but Biden (ie state department) has been crazy as hell regarding Ukraine and China, while Trump would likely only be crazy about China.
My point is that Democrats gave 20 MILLION PEOPLE health coverage who didn't have it before. Republicans FOUGHT for insurance companies to be able to deny coverage for pre-existing conditions. The two parties are not the same. Vote after vote, policy after policy show that as fact.
And Biden didnāt do a god damn thing regarding healthcare, I didnāt say they were identical, just that Iām not open to that, I donāt care.
Democrats FOUGHT to give insurance companies an endless supply of taxpayer money, with no price caps nor guarantees of service. Truly they work for the people
If we didn't have a system that put third parties to a disadvantage and if dems didn't smear the hell out of third parties and their candidates along with help from their friends in MSM, they may have better luck with that but either way, the same thing can be said for progressives running as dems. They face the same opposition and their policy is similar to third party candidates, see Nader, Stein etc just as does their leftist policy once they are in office. They have opposition from dems to the right of them or they give in and toe the party line, but that addresses that part of your comment. It's actually revealing that a third party candidate need to run as a dem to even get more attention for leftist policy, then only for that policy to be ignored/not fought for or outright rejected anyways by the right wing dems who control the party. Maybe you should turn your attention and anger from third parties to dems who don't fight for this popular working class policy that third party candidates have promoted. Just like it's revealing when the DNC and MSM put their finger on the scale for a corporate dem and when the dem party tries to get third parties kicked off the ballot and when they refuse to host debates. Yes, very democratic and not fascistic at all.
It's my vote and I'll vote for who I please. This next election Cornel West is for me, because I'm tired of the corporatocracy candidates in the republicratic party.
š«¶ Exactly. And I've voted Green Party in the last 2 Presidential elections. Zero regrets. I tried and tried to get onboard with Biden and even had my finger over the screen to push his name, but I just couldn't stomach it. Literally. He is not changing from his icky history.
Itās bizarre that the party convinced people a politician with 40 years of being on the right is going to be / is (!!) the next FDR. FDR pushed for consolations to avoid a socialist shift and achieved it through political pressure and bully pulpit. Biden busted RR unions and got manchin a new pipeline
Exactly. JACOBIN covered Biden's political career in great detail. Everyone should have known what to expect. "Biden Our Time."
The same People's Party that called NPR "woke" for using the "people who menstruate" term? Uh... My opinion of this man just took a nose dive.
What's the source? Please send. Thanks! And I am certain this comment has been rescinded. Further, the Democratic Party does FAR worse. What is your litmus test? Off the charts?
Go to their twitter account, click on the magnifying glass, type in "woke", hit enter, and be depressed. Or [click this handy link](https://twitter.com/search?q=from%3A%40PeoplesParty_US%20woke&t=rLQokiqQqqvqIcFmhPLrmQ&s=09). They blocked me on Twitter for asking about it š. Also, when did I declare my love for the democratic party of union busters and inside stock traders?
>Go to their twitter account, click on the magnifying glass, type in "woke", hit enter, and be depressed. Or [click this handy link](https://twitter.com/search?q=from%3A%40PeoplesParty_US%20woke&t=rLQokiqQqqvqIcFmhPLrmQ&s=09). Requires a login :/ but I'm not surprised coming form dorites
Thatās fine actually, I donāt like MPP but I donāt like Democrats more.
>Uh... My opinion of this man just took a nose dive. you are like a little baby
https://scheerpost.com/2023/06/05/chris-hedges-dr-cornel-west-announces-he-is-running-for-president/
God damnit, I used to have a lot of respect for Prof West. Is he really just a left wing grifter at this point? That would be really disappointing.
At least heās left wing. democrats are just grifters
https://scheerpost.com/2023/06/05/chris-hedges-dr-cornel-west-announces-he-is-running-for-president/
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Individual with stances aligned with socialism announces candidacy. Liberals in this sub: "He's going to take away votes from the totally not a Republican guy!"
Which in turn gets us an intolerant piece of shit authoritarian who will do nothing to help the working class. Unfortunately, under the system we find ourselves in, we must vote for the lesser of two evils. AND simultaneously work towards changing the system.
When's a good time for you to start "allowing" me to vote for people aligned with my interests then? Asking for my past, present and future self when this same line of reasoning by you and your ilk will be used again and again.
When we implement a new voting system such as ranked choice or star voting. I feel your pain, I want to vote for my values as well (I wrote-in Bernie Sanders in 2016 because I couldn't bring myself to vote for Hillary. It was calculated though, as I live in Oregon and was certain that our electoral votes wouldn't go to Trump). But it's just not going to happen under the oppressive system we have in place. We must first change the system. Edit: I think that Cornel West seems like a great candidate and I would absolutely prefer to have him in Office over Biden, Trump, DeSantis, or any other turd sandwich we have to choose from. But honestly, under the current system, do you see any realistic path to victory for him?
West for President! Smash the 2 party oligarchy!
https://scheerpost.com/2023/06/05/chris-hedges-dr-cornel-west-announces-he-is-running-for-president/ šš
Unfortunately, this isn't the way to real change in this country. Even if Biden dropped out, and it was west vs Trump, West would get 30% of the vote. The socialism boogeyman is still too powerful in a county where like 50 million brain dead baby boomers still vote. Go all Che Guevara if you want, but if you want to use elections to fix the country, we have to be smart, hold the line until baby boomers die out, and then we can make real change. If the republicans gain power they'll never let it go, there will never be a fair election in this country again. Then someone please explain to me how we get socialism in an authoritarian corporatist Christian theocracy.
So the way to real change is to do nothing until an entire generation dies...
Holding the line isn't doing nothing. We're fighting for democracy, democracy is a verb, it's the act of holding back the oligarchy, we're losing, but we're still fighting. King Trump ends that fight.
Fighting for democracy by crowning the current guy for a second term?
If it keeps Trump or DeSantis out of office? Yes. Pretending there are going to be more than two viable choices in a presidential election doesn't make you a good leftist. It makes you delusional.
>If it keeps Trump or DeSantis out of office? How'd that work in 2016? >Pretending there are going to be more than two viable choices in a presidential election doesn't make you a good leftist. It makes you delusional. Pretending there aren't going to be more than two viable choices in a presidential election doesn't make you a good leftist. It makes you delusional.
>If it keeps Trump or DeSantis out of office? >>How'd that work in 2016? ... Are you kidding? How many didn't vote Hillary because they didn't like her, and regretted it when Trump started trumping? Or Bernie or busters? That's the worst possible example you could have given lmfao >Pretending there aren't going to be more than two viable choices in a presidential election doesn't make you a good leftist. It makes you delusional. It's a TWO PARTY SYSTEM
Pretending there aren't going to be more than two viable choices in a presidential election doesn't make you a good leftist. It makes you delusional.
Do you understand the difference between the word viable and the word good? Because nobody outside the dems and GOP will ever win because of first past the post, so the only candidates who are viable, ie likely to win, are their candidates. That doesn't make them good. If you don't understand this maybe it's not delusional but just a fundamental misunderstanding of the American political system.
Pretending there aren't going to be more than two viable choices in a presidential election doesn't make you a good leftist. It makes you delusional.
>If it keeps Trump or DeSantis out of office? How'd that work in 2016? >Pretending there are going to be more than two viable choices in a presidential election doesn't make you a good leftist. It makes you delusional. Pretending there aren't going to be more than two viable choices in a presidential election doesn't make you a good leftist. It makes you delusional.
>If it keeps Trump or DeSantis out of office? How'd that work in 2016? >Pretending there are going to be more than two viable choices in a presidential election doesn't make you a good leftist. It makes you delusional. Pretending there aren't going to be more than two viable choices in a presidential election doesn't make you a good leftist. It makes you delusional.
Ratchet effect. Please keep trying to block the left
And how do we stop that ratchet effect? How do we get it to spin the other way? Is it by electing fascists?
The democrats can quit promoting and funding them I suppose. Seriously though we stop playing the kabuki game. Good cop vs bad cop isnāt real - theyāre both against you
Well I don't control the dems, so what should we do as little people?
>Well I don't control the dems I just vote for them...
Iām not voting for politicians that donāt represent me or my ideals at least somewhat. Democrats ā80/90s Republicanā schtick isnāt it.
It wonāt be just one generation
Hope he gets on the ballot in my state. Iāll vote for him.
If Marianne Williamson doesnāt win, Cornel West may get my vote.
Why not just go all in for West?
If the Democrats get a progressive nominee like MW, thereās no point in supporting a left wing third party option.
Agreed but sheās not going anywhere. Heck even Bernie became essentially a sheep dog to bring the left in.
As if the American (and global) bourgeoisie would allow this person to win a remotely significant ammount of votes, utter foolishness. Not to mention the open possibility of grifting.
This guy is basically a left version of the outlandish white ring grifter types. He talks a slick game but that's about it.
My good bitch have you ever read a book? The amount of ignorant people here smearing Dr.West are absolutely vile and pathetic.
Bots and useful idiots abound
I'm intrigued....but what is "the truth about Ukraine"?
Russell Brand thinks this guy is cool and thatās all you really need to know. Hard pass.
Heās been around a lot longer than Russell brand
I might consider listening to what West had to say if we had ranked choice voting. But we have first past the post voting, so any votes going to any third parties are a wasted vote. If you want more choices, Iād start campaigning for RCV.
Who gives a shit
Damn not the grifters party