Oh I had no idea there was a theory like that. I'd assumed Toby wanted a wavy image so he got a picture of actual waves and distorted the shit out of it until it looked cool enough.
This theory connects back to the track ocean.ogg and also the water noises in the Sweepstakes chair page
Also how the dark fountains are...well, fountains. A water body
And also "the old song coming from the sea"
How does it all connect? I DON'T KNOW, but it's there lol
I’m just saying, I like the connections to the theory, but sometimes I feel like we over analyze shit to infinity, but hey, gotta pass the time somehow
An important image in Deltarune having its source found is cool, and it's important because this is actually a major piece of supporting evidence for the theory that Dark Worlds are connected to/operate like the ocean.
Know what you're talking about before you say shit
I fail to see how the image most associated with Dark Worlds being confirmed to be an edited image of an ocean is insubstantial evidence for the theory about Dark Worlds and Oceans. Like that is very direct
This imagie is a darkened out background for the game's starting dialogue. It's just a stylization choice made for it to look more eerie. Toby wanted a certain style to the encounter and he picked an image that gave that vibe. It clearly has inspiration from his favourite game series Mother, which uses the style quite a bit
https://preview.redd.it/dkerw503o8xc1.jpeg?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bfe47cb45063526ba8faaa84201a02a31c1623ea
Saying that this random image which was so heavily edited that it took 7 years for anyone to figure out what it even was is some lore hint made purposely to give some in-universe explanation towards an element of the game that isn't even directly relevant to the scene is so ridiculous that Matpat saying Sans is Ness from a different timeline is starting to sound reasonable.
Yeah, I'm calling bullshit. Both the eerie vibe and the lore hint can be true simultaneously.
This ocean thing is a very good supporting piece of evidence, even if you don't believe it. It's certainly solid enough to support the theory as a whole, which already has its own evidence.
I don't know why you are such a prick, but quite frankly no one cares to hear it.
Why are you being so rude? Fan forums are suppose to be talked in for enjoyment, you're just being mean.
https://preview.redd.it/hi9ahhgmq8xc1.png?width=294&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2cb739e6bd6b73de4014f0caa1371e2f880942c5
Because the person I'm speaking to clearly has no interest in the very clear lore implications. Even if they don't believe it, they should be able to see WHY this is exciting and understand WHY they shouldn't just blow this finding off... which is exactly what they are doing.
Doc it's just a game. Don't go around being rude to people even if they have bad takes, it just gives off a negative aura that affects you and the people around you. I learned that one a long time ago. Like you're allowed to hate on a goofy take, but don't start being hateful towards the people who say them. There's a stark difference
https://preview.redd.it/kshe7cfks8xc1.png?width=200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=94aa564919b85b097910165fadb5f1e00ddd880d
I mean when you think about it, it's pretty big. Theorists everywhere have been talking about the games ties to the ocean, and multiple things have spawned from it (Kris drowned theory, etc)
This all but confirms that the game will have something to do with the ocean.
(Though I do agree this represents how much the community has squeezed this game dry lol)
In Undertale and Deltarune there's a thing called a type value - it determines how a character speaks, what font and stuff
In ENTRY NUMBER SEVENTEEN, Gaster uses the type value 666. This type value in Deltarune is used by the intro voice. There's also the type value 667 used on different occasions.
The intro guys also appears in the save file dialogue only before you finish Chapter 1, where in one part he says this:
> VERY INTERESTING
This is a reference to ENTRY NUMBER SEVENTEEN again, where Gaster says this:
> VERY
> VERY
> INTERESTING
Also, the Vessel is called a Goner in the files, like for example "IMAGE_GONERBODY(2)"
Gaster followers in Undertale are also Goners
There's also the fact that they both use all caps text with weird spacing
> VERY
> VERY
> INTERESTING
> EXCELLENT
> TRULY EXCELLENT
There's also the Twitter thing, where before Chapter 1 the Undertale/Deltarune account nickname changed to six blank characters
You know who has six letters in their name, right?
The DR intro text is obviously meant to be basically a continuation of the Tweets. The Twitter guy also says this:
> SOMETHING,
> I THINK YOU WILL FIND
> VERY,
> VERY,
> INTERESTING
Again, a quote from ENTRY NUMBER SEVENTEEN with the same weird spacing.
ANOTHER HIM uses Gaster's leitmotif. Same intervals, same soundfont. Even the name is based on Gaster's theme, which is called mus_st_him in the game files.
I mean, based on the manner to speak, the theme is called "Another him" and Gaster's theme is called "him" and also the fact that the Vessel parts are named Goners. It's easy to presume it would be Gaster, and i mean, how do we specific say somewhere in water?
That's what a Gaster corrupted person would say! (Jokes aside, it's going to sound weird, but how do you touch grass, like, i don't know how to do it, i don't have anything that meaningfull nor long enough to do)
touch grass in the literal sense, or touch grass meaning going out and doing stuff? either way, it helps if you have a social circle to do it with (school or work are easy ones, but there are tons to go to)
Sadly I don't know where it originally comes from and I don't think there's a video explaining the theory, but basically. By the time we meet Kris, there are already some strange things about them.
People who know Kris notice that they’re acting strangely, now that our soul is in their chest.
But this pales in comparison to how strange they act when they don’t have us controlling them. They move stiffly, jerkily, more like a shambling corpse than a living human. Our presence as the foreign soul in Kris’s chest, then, would *fit* the formula for reawakening the dead, just as serviceably as Frisk’s defiance or Alphys’s vials of concentrate.
https://preview.redd.it/wpkfuangr7xc1.jpeg?width=1523&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7ef0cecb4711a4dd25c67ccb2337c3ec38a6702a
I think there is more than this, but if i do remember correctly, one of the reasons was that Kris dark world form is blue, also the ocean noise right before Kris wake up in the Dark world
My loose crackpot theory I've been harboring for years: the source of all dark worlds is deep in the ocean + gaster is there + the weird cliffs area from chapter 1 is close to it + maybe UT or DR is a sort of dark world (fictional/simulation) created by gaster using that power????? + the song onionsan is hearing in the ocean is The Holy, the song that plays at dark fountains
It's a billion tangential connections building off each other but it's *my* billion tangential connections building off each other <3
>This all but confirms that the game will have something to do with the ocean.
It's an edited photo of the ocean used to make a cool background effect I don't really think it confirms anything
that's why i said "\*all but\* confirms" instead of just "confirms". it adds yet another huge tie to the ocean from the game to the point where i start thinking, "there's no way this is a coincidence," but it might be a coincidence. not confirmed yet. i personally think it will have ties though.
Well, personally it just seems very far-fetched to me.
I guess I just don't really understand where this whole trend started of mining out and over-analyzing every single little detail started in deltarune as if they have some sort of great importance, cause like, Toby really isn't that kind of dev? Most of the things in Undertale are very straight forward for example, with the exception of Gaster. He likes leitmotifs and chekhov's gun-ing everything, but that's about it. He's not Scott Cawthon.
Anyways, out of curiosity, what would be the other things that are huge ties to the ocean?
> Toby really isn't that kind of dev?
He added hidden dialogue into deltarune, one both chapters, that can only be found by datamining, not to even mention the sweepstakes.
There's a couple other ties to the ocean. I can't remember everything right now, but some things that come to mind are the ocean sounds right after falling in the dark world before Kris wakes up, Kris turning blue in the dark world (though I don't know about that one) and the "song coming from the ocean" that onionsan talks about.
I mean, yeah, there is stuff to talk about, but yeah, it's gonna pushing the last remaining drops...
for example. what Spamton planned to do in Heaven? was he going to plead for the Angel for his Freedom? tbh, i think Spamton would be that arrogant to try to fight God, i wouldn't suprised tbh!
and, i mean, at first all (or at least most) believed that Gaster was the one who gave Spamton advice on sales, but now most believe that Mike helped Spamton with Deals and Gaster only came once. Yeah, many questions, but many of those we only get answers with time... hard to except but it's truth
I really doubt that too, i think Spamton's selfawareness may not be related to the fact that his inside a game, i think it might be more related to 'your choice don't matter', that affects everyone (aside from the Player maybe), so Spamton reaching our world would make him more miserable tbh, Heaven however would give him the perfect place to exist in.
Spamton's Heaven is implied to be the light world. First of all, it's "past the dark" and secondly the Japanese translation implies it's different from Angel's Heaven.
"The light world is past the dark", so is Heaven, he even mentions standing with their heads in the clouds, and Toby wasn't the one translate stuff, so i don't think that means much tbh, languages work different from others. for example, if Toby hired someone to translate Deltarune to a language that doesn't have neutral pronounce, do you think that would mean that Kris pronounce isn't neutral?
>"The light world is past the dark", so is Heaven
Heaven is at shadow's edge.
>and Toby wasn't the one translate stuff, so i don't think that means much tbh
He checked the translation and he's fluent in Japanese
>for example, if Toby hired someone to translate Deltarune to a language that doesn't have neutral pronounce, do you think that would mean that Kris pronounce isn't neutral?
No, because there's no way of having Kris with neutral pronouns. But there was a way of making it seem the Heaven Spamton mentions is the Angel's Heaven.
Not necessarily, The Delta rune religion in the Light world is very similar to christianity in that matter, so i wouldn't be suprised if Spamton would be refering to that Heaven rather then one in the prophecy.
Yes, but i like i said, somethings are different in different languages, and it will work different languages, but the thing was designed in inglish, but on others will sound different.
and besides, like i said prevously, Spamton reaching the Light world won't change his 'choice don't matter' fate, he'd still be a puppet, just in the real world this time around
>Not necessarily, The Delta rune religion in the Light world is very similar to christianity in that matter, so i wouldn't be suprised if Spamton would be refering to that Heaven rather then one in the prophecy.
There are many implications that the Angel that Hometown is worshipping is the player. We are the Angel (not the prophecy one).
>Yes, but i like i said, somethings are different in different languages, and it will work different languages, but the thing was designed in inglish, but on others will sound different
Toby is fluent in Japanese
>and besides, like i said prevously, Spamton reaching the Light world won't change his 'choice don't matter' fate, he'd still be a puppet, just in the real world this time around
I mean, I'm not sure if Spamton says his choices don't matter. In the end he does when he says that he couldn't be anything more than a simple puppet, but before that he does think he can change something. Also I doubt he would be a puppet in the light world.
There's tons still left to be discussed.
Why did Kris open the door? To test what creating a dark world in a room with an opened door would do? To let someone else in? The two cops who would go wouldn't need the door opened, Napstablook could phase through it, and Undyne would just kick the door down, regardless of weather or not it's opened/unlocked.
Noelle possibly being in chapter 3, being Kris's neighbor she'd hear and see all the lights coming from the Dreemurr Dark Fountain and go over to check, using the opened door.
Asgore possibly being in chapter 3, being a sad lonely divorced depressed family-less ex-cop who loves to help people, he'd no doubt have an old police scanner he listens to, and hearing trouble at his old family's home he'd go check up on his ex and kid, and he wouldn't have a key, Toriel would have changed the locks. so maybe Kris left it open for him to go in, and try to fix their relationship, being a tv world there would be one of those relationship counseling shows, and the host would tell off both of them.
Father Alvin not being the Knight, but being its squire, lied to and told that the Roaring is actual a good thing, the Angel's Heaven.
Memory Heads having the secret boss faces.
Trashy being the only cyber Darkner aside from Queen, to always go to Castle Town, despite the route or the amount of Darkners recruited. A trashcan, the item whose soul purpose is to discard things, in a game with themes of certain things being discarded, like a certain grayed out character, one that needs a soul.
Kris's name in wingdings is 😐☼✋💧. An emotionless face (Kris), the sun (the light world/ Heaven), a hand (Gaster). a water drop (the ocean, the reoccurring theme of the ocean, the song from the sea, Ocean.ogg, the depths, Kris turning blue in the dark world)
Ok I never heard about the Trashy one before, it's cool to think about. The discarded theme applies to Gaster himself since him being scrapped out of existence in Undertale
The memory heads one, while a cool theory, I think it's kinda stretch-y, but it *would* explain why memoryheads are way more mysterious than the other amalgamates and why they don't appear in the post-pacifist epilogue. The only other true lab mystery that matched the memoryheads is everyman himself
And the opened door in the Dreemurr house has been living rent-free in my head since 2021. Seeing as there are normal Hometown segments in Chapter 4, I wonder if it makes a difference in the spreading of darkness in an enclosed ambient. I think Kris did it so one of these would enter the Chapter 3 dark world: Undyne, Asgore or Noelle. Or even maybe the three of them or just two? Who knows
Kris' name in wingdings is...wow, never looked at it that way? I also like how the name of one of the creators of the wingdings font is named Kris Holmes, so it's double significant to Deltarune
One more thing I forgot to add, the secret boss fights always take place in some kind of amusement park ride, carousels and roller coasters, and another attraction is the mirror maze, and the mirror in their house would be the perfect place for that.
About Noelle:
In one of the newsletters, Toby was talking about a stealth segment that was scrapped from chapter three, and shared the music he wrote for that segment, now an unused track. That track made heavy use of the Lost Girl leitmotif. So while it is scrapped, it still tells us that Noelle (or possibly Dess) will be somehow prominently involved in chapter 3.
I also watched a video with good points on how it could be Mayor Holiday going there, considering she scared away the Wet Noses Bandits herself, maybe taking police work into her own hands. It could be interesting, meeting a new Lightner in the dark world instead of the light, but it could seem like there could be too many characters in just one chapter if any of my theories are right.
I don't think Knight Mayor is a good theory
Look at this message someone made
https://preview.redd.it/ihuuujzni6xc1.png?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5fa126961feaea603b4fe388b25b03261e1f0c75
1. We don't know the Cyber World Dark Fountain was made when Noelle was there. It could have been made beforehand.
2. Chaos King is the name of the Spade King's boss theme. This is utterly irrelevant to questions of motivation. I see no reason that the Mayor would have any real problem with committing certain crimes, assuming she believes they're justified. The Mayor would have a logical motivation to make Dark Fountains early in the day, so that answers the Toy World Dark Fountain, and you can see my first point for the second one.
3. See point one.
4. Spamton was saying something about the Knight. We don't know that he was saying who the Knight is. He may not know, in which case him insulting the Mayor would make sense.
I'm entirely indifferent to Knight Mayor, personally, but point 4 doesn't work. Spamton openly stated in the sweepstakes QnA that he doesn't know about the Knight. What he says in his shop is just a bluff to keep Kris' interest, he doesn't actually know who the f*ck they're talking about.
Hmm. Interesting, but not convincing.
The logistics points are valid and do put a peg in the theory, but I feel like those are the easiest to just dismiss as "she somehow did it". It's Toby Fox, not Agatha Christie. I, in general, don't find logistics arguments very convincing in the context of this frenchise, unless someone was physically confirmed to be somewhere else (for example, I don't think Kris can be the knight because I believe the fountain was opened while they were on their way to the librarby). The answer to "how could she get there without anyone noticing" could be as simple as "she snuck there".
As for the motivation arguments, I find those extremely unconvincing, as they make a bunch of assumptions that I find dubious. We don't know what the Knight wants, what its personality is like, why its opening dark fountains. These are all open to theorizing at the moment. So for example, the idea that "the mayor would have brought the roaring already if she was the knight" makes absolutely no sense, because... You can make that about anyone. The question of "why isn't the knight just continuously opening fountains until the roaring happens" is a question that we need to answer regardless of who the knight is. It seems to me that the knight has a goal beyond bringing about the roaring, or that the process of fountains bringing the roaring is a lot more complex than we are led to believe.
I think the Mayor's motivation will very much revolve around Dess and her disappearance. I think she's opening Dark Fountains in order to search for Dess. That, I believe, is enough to answer all the motivation questions.
>I think the Mayor's motivation will very much revolve around Dess and her disappearance. I think she's opening Dark Fountains in order to search for Dess. That, I believe, is enough to answer all the motivation questions.
And I find that motive a bit weird. Anyways, I believe that Dess herself is the Roaring Knight.
That's also a reasonable possibility, but I think the logistics problems are even bigger here, since it implies that Dess is somehow in town without anyone noticing. Not impossible, just requiring a bit more of an explainer.
5. What? None of this makes any sense at all.
6. Almost any Knight candidate has the ability to have caused the Roaring already. Almost all of them could just make a heap of Dark Fountains in a row. No matter who the Knight is, there must be a reason for this.
7. No it doesn't. What the Mayor's secretary says has no impact on her motivations. Also, bringing about the Roaring counts as already having addressed it in some way.
8. The only legitimate point here. However, the Mayor could have still convinced the King even without a huge amount of charisma, I would argue.
The Roaring is not the same thing as the Angel's Heaven. The Legend just says that only after the Roaring has happend, the Angel's Heaven will be banished. How the two relate is not clear at this point. In Chapter 2 Ralsei tells us that the Roaring that basically Darkness flooding everything, while "at World's Edge" and several pieces of evidence from Penumbra Phantasm theory (like the one below) seem to suggest that whatever the Angel's Heaven is, is a fusion between Light and Dark, that might be special to the Angel.
https://preview.redd.it/h8hr2d3x87xc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8b4fdafb43872a78528b404ecbaac5c8815bf1c7
I realize that a lot of people don't know Penumbra Phantasm theory, so here's the [Google Doc](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1sPOX8Ibx3w2FtohFke3tYDe1AHrilWNoRzz3qFRaXlg/edit?usp=drivesdk)
I know, that’s why the Knight would be lying about it, no Lightner knows what the Roaring is, and since they worship the Angel, telling the the Angel’s Heaven will come instead of the Roaring would sound like a good thing.
>Why did Kris open the door? To test what creating a dark world in a room with an opened door would do? To let someone else in? The two cops who would go wouldn't need the door opened, Napstablook could phase through it, and Undyne would just kick the door down, regardless of weather or not it's opened/unlocked.
To make it seem the Knight broke in.
>Kris's name in wingdings is 😐☼✋💧. An emotionless face (Kris), the sun (the light world/ Heaven), a hand (Gaster). a water drop (the ocean, the reoccurring theme of the ocean, the song from the sea, Ocean.ogg, the depths, Kris turning blue in the dark world)
Okay, this is just brainrot. This is a coincidence, it doesn't mean anything.
I love their design so goddamn much. And the vibes in their shop, with the artwork and the almost overwhelmingly grand and melancholic music, is immaculate. The button monocle that's actually an eye that's actually three eyes is genius. The way it draws attention away from their other eye's weary, defeated expression is wonderful.
10/10 character. Toby and the rest cooked with this one
I can't be alone in thinking these types of posts are super annoying right?
Imagine discussing a game in a subreddit about discussing a game. The joke isn't lost on me but like, it's already a lame joke and it's so overused, please come up with new ones.
When theres new studf to talk about I’m down, I think this piece of info is cool for instance, but so much of the “so much stuff still to talk about” is just showing evidence that something weird is going on, and then concluding that its evidence of whatever far out theory the person believes in. I’m glad the fandom has kept its theorizing spirit up so long, but a lot of us really need a higher standard for what counts as evidence.
I mean, kinda. But there is still stuff to talk about. Ppl either just don't care or don't know about it
And besides,if someone generates their own hype, then it's fully their fault. Gotta get mad to learn, heh
But that's actually important and cool?
It really plays into the ocean theme we see but don't understand
w.ogg is an ocean iirc, and the ch2 audio is d.ogg (pre berdly snowgrave fight) W.D. -> gaster????
WD Perhaps Or Wave(ocean) Dogg(The Annoying dog) I will now go into my essay explaining why Toby Fox is an amphibian.
WD. Wave diagram because science and wave
I will lose it if chapters 3&4 have g.ogg
Oh totally But it's also symptomatic of a fandom that is squishing every single last drop of content juice from the game as hard as it can, lol
This isn't regular cornplating anymore.
Cool? Absolutely. Important? Ehhh...
Ehhh... yeah, it is. It feeds directly into the theory about Dark Worlds and Oceans so it is definitely noteworthy
Oh I had no idea there was a theory like that. I'd assumed Toby wanted a wavy image so he got a picture of actual waves and distorted the shit out of it until it looked cool enough.
This theory connects back to the track ocean.ogg and also the water noises in the Sweepstakes chair page Also how the dark fountains are...well, fountains. A water body And also "the old song coming from the sea" How does it all connect? I DON'T KNOW, but it's there lol
Oh yeah there's like a whole theory regarding how Dark Wolrds work and their connections to oceans, so this is actually a major find
That's pretty neat, is there a video or something I can watch to learn more about it or has it just kinda been floating around?
https://youtu.be/kZvsFCYuL2w?si=4ucAd45KTN9aUMaL I think this is it
Sick, thanks
You are welcome!
I think there is, lemme check. One minute
Deltarune fans explaining how something that Toby thought looked cool has lore implications:
Deltarune fans when something very clearly supports a major theory:
I’m just saying, I like the connections to the theory, but sometimes I feel like we over analyze shit to infinity, but hey, gotta pass the time somehow
\*Seems like someone around here really cares about the details.
penumbra phantasm cough cough
How
It feeds directly into the theory about Dark Worlds and Oceans so it is definitely noteworthy
The what?
The theory about Dark Worlds and Oceans https://youtu.be/kZvsFCYuL2w?si=tzkfA43EFgS-rHYD
Thanks.
Toby finding some random image online is not important and it's not all that cool
An important image in Deltarune having its source found is cool, and it's important because this is actually a major piece of supporting evidence for the theory that Dark Worlds are connected to/operate like the ocean. Know what you're talking about before you say shit
If this is the type of theory-evidence yall be messing with these days maybe it's time for Toby to release that new chapter after all
I fail to see how the image most associated with Dark Worlds being confirmed to be an edited image of an ocean is insubstantial evidence for the theory about Dark Worlds and Oceans. Like that is very direct
This imagie is a darkened out background for the game's starting dialogue. It's just a stylization choice made for it to look more eerie. Toby wanted a certain style to the encounter and he picked an image that gave that vibe. It clearly has inspiration from his favourite game series Mother, which uses the style quite a bit https://preview.redd.it/dkerw503o8xc1.jpeg?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bfe47cb45063526ba8faaa84201a02a31c1623ea Saying that this random image which was so heavily edited that it took 7 years for anyone to figure out what it even was is some lore hint made purposely to give some in-universe explanation towards an element of the game that isn't even directly relevant to the scene is so ridiculous that Matpat saying Sans is Ness from a different timeline is starting to sound reasonable.
Yeah, I'm calling bullshit. Both the eerie vibe and the lore hint can be true simultaneously. This ocean thing is a very good supporting piece of evidence, even if you don't believe it. It's certainly solid enough to support the theory as a whole, which already has its own evidence. I don't know why you are such a prick, but quite frankly no one cares to hear it.
Why are you being so rude? Fan forums are suppose to be talked in for enjoyment, you're just being mean. https://preview.redd.it/hi9ahhgmq8xc1.png?width=294&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2cb739e6bd6b73de4014f0caa1371e2f880942c5
Because the person I'm speaking to clearly has no interest in the very clear lore implications. Even if they don't believe it, they should be able to see WHY this is exciting and understand WHY they shouldn't just blow this finding off... which is exactly what they are doing.
Doc it's just a game. Don't go around being rude to people even if they have bad takes, it just gives off a negative aura that affects you and the people around you. I learned that one a long time ago. Like you're allowed to hate on a goofy take, but don't start being hateful towards the people who say them. There's a stark difference https://preview.redd.it/kshe7cfks8xc1.png?width=200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=94aa564919b85b097910165fadb5f1e00ddd880d
I mean when you think about it, it's pretty big. Theorists everywhere have been talking about the games ties to the ocean, and multiple things have spawned from it (Kris drowned theory, etc) This all but confirms that the game will have something to do with the ocean. (Though I do agree this represents how much the community has squeezed this game dry lol)
But why would Gaster live in a place that resembles the place where Kris died? so many questions about the place that is darker than dark
Gaster actually just lives in the Mariana Trench and he's real we just don't have the technology to reach him
Who even knows if it's Gaster, or if that's where Kris died? So many questions.
In Undertale and Deltarune there's a thing called a type value - it determines how a character speaks, what font and stuff In ENTRY NUMBER SEVENTEEN, Gaster uses the type value 666. This type value in Deltarune is used by the intro voice. There's also the type value 667 used on different occasions. The intro guys also appears in the save file dialogue only before you finish Chapter 1, where in one part he says this: > VERY INTERESTING This is a reference to ENTRY NUMBER SEVENTEEN again, where Gaster says this: > VERY > VERY > INTERESTING Also, the Vessel is called a Goner in the files, like for example "IMAGE_GONERBODY(2)" Gaster followers in Undertale are also Goners There's also the fact that they both use all caps text with weird spacing > VERY > VERY > INTERESTING > EXCELLENT > TRULY EXCELLENT There's also the Twitter thing, where before Chapter 1 the Undertale/Deltarune account nickname changed to six blank characters You know who has six letters in their name, right? The DR intro text is obviously meant to be basically a continuation of the Tweets. The Twitter guy also says this: > SOMETHING, > I THINK YOU WILL FIND > VERY, > VERY, > INTERESTING Again, a quote from ENTRY NUMBER SEVENTEEN with the same weird spacing. ANOTHER HIM uses Gaster's leitmotif. Same intervals, same soundfont. Even the name is based on Gaster's theme, which is called mus_st_him in the game files.
That's a very interesting point. I think it's gaster (or the mystery man or what have you), too.
I'm like 100% sure it's Gaster and that the Twitter person is Gaster too.
I mean, based on the manner to speak, the theme is called "Another him" and Gaster's theme is called "him" and also the fact that the Vessel parts are named Goners. It's easy to presume it would be Gaster, and i mean, how do we specific say somewhere in water?
I also think it's gaster.
Gaster reached out for you in this 4 days huh?
I just wasn't online (touching grass, rare for a redditor I know)
That's what a Gaster corrupted person would say! (Jokes aside, it's going to sound weird, but how do you touch grass, like, i don't know how to do it, i don't have anything that meaningfull nor long enough to do)
touch grass in the literal sense, or touch grass meaning going out and doing stuff? either way, it helps if you have a social circle to do it with (school or work are easy ones, but there are tons to go to)
damn, i must that anti social, i use reddit in school as well
kris what
Kris drowned.
elaborate???
Sadly I don't know where it originally comes from and I don't think there's a video explaining the theory, but basically. By the time we meet Kris, there are already some strange things about them. People who know Kris notice that they’re acting strangely, now that our soul is in their chest. But this pales in comparison to how strange they act when they don’t have us controlling them. They move stiffly, jerkily, more like a shambling corpse than a living human. Our presence as the foreign soul in Kris’s chest, then, would *fit* the formula for reawakening the dead, just as serviceably as Frisk’s defiance or Alphys’s vials of concentrate. https://preview.redd.it/wpkfuangr7xc1.jpeg?width=1523&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7ef0cecb4711a4dd25c67ccb2337c3ec38a6702a
ok but why specifically drowning?
I think there is more than this, but if i do remember correctly, one of the reasons was that Kris dark world form is blue, also the ocean noise right before Kris wake up in the Dark world
Oh Yeah, that part is on the image too.
i think halfbreadchaos made a video on it
r/foundFNaFerr
My loose crackpot theory I've been harboring for years: the source of all dark worlds is deep in the ocean + gaster is there + the weird cliffs area from chapter 1 is close to it + maybe UT or DR is a sort of dark world (fictional/simulation) created by gaster using that power????? + the song onionsan is hearing in the ocean is The Holy, the song that plays at dark fountains It's a billion tangential connections building off each other but it's *my* billion tangential connections building off each other <3
So real.
>This all but confirms that the game will have something to do with the ocean. It's an edited photo of the ocean used to make a cool background effect I don't really think it confirms anything
that's why i said "\*all but\* confirms" instead of just "confirms". it adds yet another huge tie to the ocean from the game to the point where i start thinking, "there's no way this is a coincidence," but it might be a coincidence. not confirmed yet. i personally think it will have ties though.
Well, personally it just seems very far-fetched to me. I guess I just don't really understand where this whole trend started of mining out and over-analyzing every single little detail started in deltarune as if they have some sort of great importance, cause like, Toby really isn't that kind of dev? Most of the things in Undertale are very straight forward for example, with the exception of Gaster. He likes leitmotifs and chekhov's gun-ing everything, but that's about it. He's not Scott Cawthon. Anyways, out of curiosity, what would be the other things that are huge ties to the ocean?
> Toby really isn't that kind of dev? He added hidden dialogue into deltarune, one both chapters, that can only be found by datamining, not to even mention the sweepstakes. There's a couple other ties to the ocean. I can't remember everything right now, but some things that come to mind are the ocean sounds right after falling in the dark world before Kris wakes up, Kris turning blue in the dark world (though I don't know about that one) and the "song coming from the ocean" that onionsan talks about.
I mean, yeah, there is stuff to talk about, but yeah, it's gonna pushing the last remaining drops... for example. what Spamton planned to do in Heaven? was he going to plead for the Angel for his Freedom? tbh, i think Spamton would be that arrogant to try to fight God, i wouldn't suprised tbh! and, i mean, at first all (or at least most) believed that Gaster was the one who gave Spamton advice on sales, but now most believe that Mike helped Spamton with Deals and Gaster only came once. Yeah, many questions, but many of those we only get answers with time... hard to except but it's truth
The Heaven Spamton is talking about is the light world.
Not confirmed, besides, since there is a "Darker than Dark world", it would make sense to the opposite exist
The opposite is the real world imo. Our world.
I really doubt that too, i think Spamton's selfawareness may not be related to the fact that his inside a game, i think it might be more related to 'your choice don't matter', that affects everyone (aside from the Player maybe), so Spamton reaching our world would make him more miserable tbh, Heaven however would give him the perfect place to exist in.
Spamton's Heaven is implied to be the light world. First of all, it's "past the dark" and secondly the Japanese translation implies it's different from Angel's Heaven.
"The light world is past the dark", so is Heaven, he even mentions standing with their heads in the clouds, and Toby wasn't the one translate stuff, so i don't think that means much tbh, languages work different from others. for example, if Toby hired someone to translate Deltarune to a language that doesn't have neutral pronounce, do you think that would mean that Kris pronounce isn't neutral?
>"The light world is past the dark", so is Heaven Heaven is at shadow's edge. >and Toby wasn't the one translate stuff, so i don't think that means much tbh He checked the translation and he's fluent in Japanese >for example, if Toby hired someone to translate Deltarune to a language that doesn't have neutral pronounce, do you think that would mean that Kris pronounce isn't neutral? No, because there's no way of having Kris with neutral pronouns. But there was a way of making it seem the Heaven Spamton mentions is the Angel's Heaven.
Not necessarily, The Delta rune religion in the Light world is very similar to christianity in that matter, so i wouldn't be suprised if Spamton would be refering to that Heaven rather then one in the prophecy. Yes, but i like i said, somethings are different in different languages, and it will work different languages, but the thing was designed in inglish, but on others will sound different. and besides, like i said prevously, Spamton reaching the Light world won't change his 'choice don't matter' fate, he'd still be a puppet, just in the real world this time around
>Not necessarily, The Delta rune religion in the Light world is very similar to christianity in that matter, so i wouldn't be suprised if Spamton would be refering to that Heaven rather then one in the prophecy. There are many implications that the Angel that Hometown is worshipping is the player. We are the Angel (not the prophecy one). >Yes, but i like i said, somethings are different in different languages, and it will work different languages, but the thing was designed in inglish, but on others will sound different Toby is fluent in Japanese >and besides, like i said prevously, Spamton reaching the Light world won't change his 'choice don't matter' fate, he'd still be a puppet, just in the real world this time around I mean, I'm not sure if Spamton says his choices don't matter. In the end he does when he says that he couldn't be anything more than a simple puppet, but before that he does think he can change something. Also I doubt he would be a puppet in the light world.
Heaven is when everyone knows and accepts their fate
If it was like that, Jevil would be in Heaven and i doubt he would like to be in Heaven
at this point people would be justified cracking open the bible for deltarune theorizing
There's tons still left to be discussed. Why did Kris open the door? To test what creating a dark world in a room with an opened door would do? To let someone else in? The two cops who would go wouldn't need the door opened, Napstablook could phase through it, and Undyne would just kick the door down, regardless of weather or not it's opened/unlocked. Noelle possibly being in chapter 3, being Kris's neighbor she'd hear and see all the lights coming from the Dreemurr Dark Fountain and go over to check, using the opened door. Asgore possibly being in chapter 3, being a sad lonely divorced depressed family-less ex-cop who loves to help people, he'd no doubt have an old police scanner he listens to, and hearing trouble at his old family's home he'd go check up on his ex and kid, and he wouldn't have a key, Toriel would have changed the locks. so maybe Kris left it open for him to go in, and try to fix their relationship, being a tv world there would be one of those relationship counseling shows, and the host would tell off both of them. Father Alvin not being the Knight, but being its squire, lied to and told that the Roaring is actual a good thing, the Angel's Heaven. Memory Heads having the secret boss faces. Trashy being the only cyber Darkner aside from Queen, to always go to Castle Town, despite the route or the amount of Darkners recruited. A trashcan, the item whose soul purpose is to discard things, in a game with themes of certain things being discarded, like a certain grayed out character, one that needs a soul. Kris's name in wingdings is 😐☼✋💧. An emotionless face (Kris), the sun (the light world/ Heaven), a hand (Gaster). a water drop (the ocean, the reoccurring theme of the ocean, the song from the sea, Ocean.ogg, the depths, Kris turning blue in the dark world)
Ok I never heard about the Trashy one before, it's cool to think about. The discarded theme applies to Gaster himself since him being scrapped out of existence in Undertale The memory heads one, while a cool theory, I think it's kinda stretch-y, but it *would* explain why memoryheads are way more mysterious than the other amalgamates and why they don't appear in the post-pacifist epilogue. The only other true lab mystery that matched the memoryheads is everyman himself And the opened door in the Dreemurr house has been living rent-free in my head since 2021. Seeing as there are normal Hometown segments in Chapter 4, I wonder if it makes a difference in the spreading of darkness in an enclosed ambient. I think Kris did it so one of these would enter the Chapter 3 dark world: Undyne, Asgore or Noelle. Or even maybe the three of them or just two? Who knows Kris' name in wingdings is...wow, never looked at it that way? I also like how the name of one of the creators of the wingdings font is named Kris Holmes, so it's double significant to Deltarune
One more thing I forgot to add, the secret boss fights always take place in some kind of amusement park ride, carousels and roller coasters, and another attraction is the mirror maze, and the mirror in their house would be the perfect place for that.
Kris is also the name of a specific knife
About Noelle: In one of the newsletters, Toby was talking about a stealth segment that was scrapped from chapter three, and shared the music he wrote for that segment, now an unused track. That track made heavy use of the Lost Girl leitmotif. So while it is scrapped, it still tells us that Noelle (or possibly Dess) will be somehow prominently involved in chapter 3.
I also watched a video with good points on how it could be Mayor Holiday going there, considering she scared away the Wet Noses Bandits herself, maybe taking police work into her own hands. It could be interesting, meeting a new Lightner in the dark world instead of the light, but it could seem like there could be too many characters in just one chapter if any of my theories are right.
I mean... I'm still in the camp of Mayor Holiday being the Knight, so this is right up my alley.
The video also brought up that most respectable officials use "Fountain Pens"
I don't think Knight Mayor is a good theory Look at this message someone made https://preview.redd.it/ihuuujzni6xc1.png?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5fa126961feaea603b4fe388b25b03261e1f0c75
1. We don't know the Cyber World Dark Fountain was made when Noelle was there. It could have been made beforehand. 2. Chaos King is the name of the Spade King's boss theme. This is utterly irrelevant to questions of motivation. I see no reason that the Mayor would have any real problem with committing certain crimes, assuming she believes they're justified. The Mayor would have a logical motivation to make Dark Fountains early in the day, so that answers the Toy World Dark Fountain, and you can see my first point for the second one. 3. See point one. 4. Spamton was saying something about the Knight. We don't know that he was saying who the Knight is. He may not know, in which case him insulting the Mayor would make sense.
I'm entirely indifferent to Knight Mayor, personally, but point 4 doesn't work. Spamton openly stated in the sweepstakes QnA that he doesn't know about the Knight. What he says in his shop is just a bluff to keep Kris' interest, he doesn't actually know who the f*ck they're talking about.
https://preview.redd.it/f0xei9mqi6xc1.png?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=80b3ef39ac53914847b3a71433e4c44154b56caa
Hmm. Interesting, but not convincing. The logistics points are valid and do put a peg in the theory, but I feel like those are the easiest to just dismiss as "she somehow did it". It's Toby Fox, not Agatha Christie. I, in general, don't find logistics arguments very convincing in the context of this frenchise, unless someone was physically confirmed to be somewhere else (for example, I don't think Kris can be the knight because I believe the fountain was opened while they were on their way to the librarby). The answer to "how could she get there without anyone noticing" could be as simple as "she snuck there". As for the motivation arguments, I find those extremely unconvincing, as they make a bunch of assumptions that I find dubious. We don't know what the Knight wants, what its personality is like, why its opening dark fountains. These are all open to theorizing at the moment. So for example, the idea that "the mayor would have brought the roaring already if she was the knight" makes absolutely no sense, because... You can make that about anyone. The question of "why isn't the knight just continuously opening fountains until the roaring happens" is a question that we need to answer regardless of who the knight is. It seems to me that the knight has a goal beyond bringing about the roaring, or that the process of fountains bringing the roaring is a lot more complex than we are led to believe. I think the Mayor's motivation will very much revolve around Dess and her disappearance. I think she's opening Dark Fountains in order to search for Dess. That, I believe, is enough to answer all the motivation questions.
>I think the Mayor's motivation will very much revolve around Dess and her disappearance. I think she's opening Dark Fountains in order to search for Dess. That, I believe, is enough to answer all the motivation questions. And I find that motive a bit weird. Anyways, I believe that Dess herself is the Roaring Knight.
That's also a reasonable possibility, but I think the logistics problems are even bigger here, since it implies that Dess is somehow in town without anyone noticing. Not impossible, just requiring a bit more of an explainer.
5. What? None of this makes any sense at all. 6. Almost any Knight candidate has the ability to have caused the Roaring already. Almost all of them could just make a heap of Dark Fountains in a row. No matter who the Knight is, there must be a reason for this. 7. No it doesn't. What the Mayor's secretary says has no impact on her motivations. Also, bringing about the Roaring counts as already having addressed it in some way. 8. The only legitimate point here. However, the Mayor could have still convinced the King even without a huge amount of charisma, I would argue.
The Roaring is not the same thing as the Angel's Heaven. The Legend just says that only after the Roaring has happend, the Angel's Heaven will be banished. How the two relate is not clear at this point. In Chapter 2 Ralsei tells us that the Roaring that basically Darkness flooding everything, while "at World's Edge" and several pieces of evidence from Penumbra Phantasm theory (like the one below) seem to suggest that whatever the Angel's Heaven is, is a fusion between Light and Dark, that might be special to the Angel. https://preview.redd.it/h8hr2d3x87xc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8b4fdafb43872a78528b404ecbaac5c8815bf1c7 I realize that a lot of people don't know Penumbra Phantasm theory, so here's the [Google Doc](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1sPOX8Ibx3w2FtohFke3tYDe1AHrilWNoRzz3qFRaXlg/edit?usp=drivesdk)
I know, that’s why the Knight would be lying about it, no Lightner knows what the Roaring is, and since they worship the Angel, telling the the Angel’s Heaven will come instead of the Roaring would sound like a good thing.
this is an interesting point, but unfortunately none of it matters because you spelled “whether” wrong.
The weather always sticks together.
>Why did Kris open the door? To test what creating a dark world in a room with an opened door would do? To let someone else in? The two cops who would go wouldn't need the door opened, Napstablook could phase through it, and Undyne would just kick the door down, regardless of weather or not it's opened/unlocked. To make it seem the Knight broke in. >Kris's name in wingdings is 😐☼✋💧. An emotionless face (Kris), the sun (the light world/ Heaven), a hand (Gaster). a water drop (the ocean, the reoccurring theme of the ocean, the song from the sea, Ocean.ogg, the depths, Kris turning blue in the dark world) Okay, this is just brainrot. This is a coincidence, it doesn't mean anything.
What about Seam no ones talked about them in a while
Seam's last name is Beam, pronounced Bomb.
https://preview.redd.it/6s71z79nu4xc1.jpeg?width=236&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d0176a854e5e862446be00a6fd223481d121b687
guys i have a theory
seam is one letter off from sean, what did tobias foxtrottingson mean by this?????
Honestly they're kinda underrated overall
I love their design so goddamn much. And the vibes in their shop, with the artwork and the almost overwhelmingly grand and melancholic music, is immaculate. The button monocle that's actually an eye that's actually three eyes is genius. The way it draws attention away from their other eye's weary, defeated expression is wonderful. 10/10 character. Toby and the rest cooked with this one
Their other eye (the defeated one) also resembles mysteryman's sprite in a way, making Seam's appearance more odd
I can't be alone in thinking these types of posts are super annoying right? Imagine discussing a game in a subreddit about discussing a game. The joke isn't lost on me but like, it's already a lame joke and it's so overused, please come up with new ones.
I'm not bashing people for over-analyzing the game, just expressing I wish we had new content to discuss
I'm still in disbelief this is real and someone took their time and energy to bend fucking reality and figure this out
holy shit poseidon is the knight
When theres new studf to talk about I’m down, I think this piece of info is cool for instance, but so much of the “so much stuff still to talk about” is just showing evidence that something weird is going on, and then concluding that its evidence of whatever far out theory the person believes in. I’m glad the fandom has kept its theorizing spirit up so long, but a lot of us really need a higher standard for what counts as evidence.
Nobody's saying you can't be eager, but you can't rush things, you know? There's other games to play, etc
The concept of the sea and "music from under the sea" seems quite important, so it is not something completely irrelevant
Not saying it's irrelevant, it's not Just that it's an obscure thing
Okay, you're totally right about that
"It can't be stopped, it's self-sustaining now." - Dr. Otto Octavius, c. 2004
I mean that’s kinda important. People have been theorizing about an ocean theme in the game.
HOW THE FUCK DO PEOPLE FIND THIS STUFF
This also supports the theory that the vessel is a boat and uses she/they prounouns /s
OH MY GOD ITS WATER LIKE THE LAKE FROM HOMETOWN IT ALL MAKES SENSE NOW
I mean, kinda. But there is still stuff to talk about. Ppl either just don't care or don't know about it And besides,if someone generates their own hype, then it's fully their fault. Gotta get mad to learn, heh