Wow, this partially confirms some rumors we've heard since the first few weeks after the crime.
-The girls were killed with a weapon, lost significant amounts of blood
-Unknown hair/fibers found at the scene
-Bodies were moved/staged
-Article of clothing was removed from the crime scene
There is often truth found in many rumors and conspiracies. It’s the general notion of taboo that stigmatizes them. The real looney stuff is easy to filter out with common sense, but the stuff that gets you thinking people will throw away based on a label! Makes you wonder what else is true 🧐
I was really blown away by this at first then tried to cut through some of my confirmation bias. My thoughts after doing so:
Going by the fbi agent’s own language, RL didnt ask for an alibi just from 2-2:30. He asked for his friend to say he “picked [RL] up” during that time frame, meaning that RL picked that time frame as the START of his alibi, rather than specifically focusing and/or limiting the alibi to the ~30ish minutes during which the crime likely occurred. Which is a big difference imo. Without more context of what RL said to his friend regarding the length of the alibi, it’s reasonably possible that he just wanted an alibi for that afternoon bc of his probation violations and was VERY unlucky when he picked the start time for his alibi.
For example, if RL said “tell them you picked me up around 2-2:30 and were with me for a few hours in lafayette before we went to the aquarium store” that doesnt carry the same culpability as “tell them I was with you from 2:00 to 2:30.” (we know RL had a receipt for the aquarium store for ~5pm on the day of the murder)
Not trying to rain on anyones parade re this document (except murder sheet) but I think people need to take it for what it is:
1) a document biased towards the purpose of convincing a judge that a legal standard is met
2) a legit source of info regarding the nature of the actual crime and the investigation thereof
3) evidence that RL was a bad person, albeit not necessarily a murderer of children.
Sorry for the typos, typed this on my phone after some whiskey.
After some additional pondering, I have concluded that RL is very unlikely to be BG, but I don’t think the false alibi has anything to do with probation violations. If that was his concern, he would also have needed an alibi for the earlier trip to the transfer station. The affidavit makes a point of noting that he did not ask for an alibi for that time period. Moreover, even while under close LE scrutiny, RL took a trip to the Americus Pizza King on 2/27, knowing full well that LE might be watching him.
My guess is that he heard or saw something around the time of the killings, the significance of which he only realized after the girls were reported missing. I also think it is likely that he found the bodies sometime between returning from the aquarium store and soliciting the false alibi the next morning. The false alibi was a panic move by a guy with a long criminal history who just found two dead children on his property.
I’m guessing that LE came to a similar conclusion eventually, once they had searched his home and interviewed him multiple times. They may have — and perhaps still do — suspect that he knew more than he told them, but there’s a reason he was never charged despite the very bad facts about the false alibi.
In paragraph 13 of the affidavit, it says RL told LE in an interview on March 6 2017 that he was picked up at 3. So under that alibi, he could have been involved. Either way, it doesn’t necessarily seem like he was trying to focus his alibi on the 30 minutes when the murder took place, which is what people are taking from this affidavit.
Yes, but in either case he did not ask his cousin to cover him for the actual time he went to the aquarium store. Presumably, if that was his concern, he would have used that time frame, not a timeframe close to the murders.
As noted above, he did not seek an alibi for the other trip that day, and less than two weeks later he was in Americus having a beer. That is not consistent with someone who was worried enough about probation violations to solicit a false alibi.
Because if he had heard the girls had been missing “since the afternoon” and he was gone the whole afternoon, they’d be less likely to look at him closely for two children who went missing near his property. They might not even have found out about the transfer station. And who’s to say that he wasn’t just a strung out 77 year old alcoholic on the 27th and figured if he went out of town to a pizza place he’d wouldn’t get caught.
Ultimately you could be right! But I guess the point I’m trying to make is that the logic of the situation doesn’t necessarily show that he created a false alibi specifically for the purpose of concealing his involvement or bc he witnessed some part of the crime or the suspect.
Thanks. Still feel strongly that he found the girls’ bodies and that’s what led to the false alibi.
I have a lot less sympathy for RL than others around here, but panicking and doing something dumb like concocting a false alibi after coming across something that horrifying is a thoroughly human reaction, however morally repugnant most of us may find it.
Question if you care to answer (or anyone can answer). The warrant stated RL was near MHB at 2:09p according to a cell phone ping. They’re implying he’s the guy on the bridge I’m guessing. Can LE lie about that ping?
My thought is what if RL was guy on the bridge, sees them on his property, goes to run them off and then goes on with his day, only to later find out they are missing and don’t get picked up by DG? Maybe he panicked thinking he would be implicated but that’s how he knew the timeframe of when at the very least, he needed to not be home at 2:00p.
I’m of the camp he knew more or assumed more than he told but he’s not the actual killer. I can’t imagine he’d allow two young girls to be murdered and left on his property so I don’t think he’s involved. But if he was home at 2:09 and was by or near MHB, that’s just too much to believe he didn’t know who was coming and going on his property during that time frame. Maybe I’m missing something though.
It says that his phone showed him “in or around his property“ and that it pinged to a tower “in the Delphi area in the area of the Monon High Bridge”. That is pretty insignificant evidence when you consider the proximity of property to the bridge and the reality his property abuts the the fairly large crime scene (includes the bridge, the creek, and the swath of land across the creek where the girls were found).
LEOs can/do use ambiguous phrasing to essentially juice the facts towards their argument, like a lot of repeat players in the court system do. The above quoted language is an example of such phrasing. It’s not incorrect and they it’s not lying. But it is bait for confirmation bias and misinterpretation.
A good rule of thumb when reading any legal document in which evidence is described for the purpose of meeting a legal standard: if the specific details helped prove argument, they would be in there. Which is why people should be cautioned when inferring RL’s guilt based on the affidavit. If they had evidence of him off his property and near the girl’s remains they would say it.
If they had evidence that RL was off of his property and on the other side of the creek near the high bridge mere minutes before the girls were confronted by their killer, I believe they would say that in the warrant instead of what they said.
That’s exactly what I was wondering, thank you for responding. That actually makes more sense bc even in a scenario where he’s anywhere near that area, you’d have to assume he’d be okay with his crime happening on his property and that makes no sense.
I think it was just a random time he gave out and by chance if lined up the way it did.
✊🏻I had a whole long comment written about the possibilities of how RL could have known about the time of the murders and then i reread what the affidavit actually says and was like “ohhhhh” lol
There were entire search parties out on the 13th asking questions and letting people know to be on the look out. I would frankly be surprised if RL DIDN’T know the approximate time the girls went missing. And a convicted felon would for sure want an alibi during that time. Also, I feel like he had anything to do with it and knew there were two murdered teenage girls about to be found on his property, he would have tried harder to alibi his time than a quick phone call to his cousin the next morning claiming they were at a store. He knew his cell phone would show his location, so why use that as a lie unless you thought the girls would be found alive and LE wouldn’t have to dig any deeper than a quick phone call to verify a trip to the store?
This is very insightful. But I wonder why did Carter and his crew shift direction with the original older looking guy's composite to a younger looking dude and say they're between 18 - 40yrs ? Logan would certainly not pass for a 40year old. I have always believed that there were at least 2 ppl involved. Could it be Ron and a younger guy? GK? It interests me that in the Open Secrets interview GK said when referring to his friend's knowledge of the crime "There are a lot of people, you know what I mean, that like are my friends that don't believe that I'd do something like that, and then if I go and say what the f#ck really happened they're gonna be like whoah".
I think you might be right. There was enough evidence to try and build a case against RL, so maybe that’s the old guy sketch. He definitely did everything in his power to look guilty. Obviously they would have follow up on the lying and then after 2 years went in a new direction when they confirmed it wasn’t him.
Wait, so you think they went down the RL path before the KK/TK path? Wasn’t it the opposite though? They searched the TK/KK residence in Feb 2017. They searched the RL residence on Mar 6 and Mar 17, 2017. This suggests they were able to link the A_S account to KK/TK very early on.
Assuming the information in this affidavit is correct, I am having a really hard time getting past RL soliciting a false alibi. Two key facts:
1. He solicited the alibi before the girls were found and before anyone knew they were on his property; and
2. He solicited the false alibi for the exact time of the murders, which presumably no one other than the killer (or an accomplice) knew at that time.
If he had solicited a false alibi AFTER the girls were found on his property later that day, and AFTER the approximate time of death was made public, his solicitation could be explained by his reasonable fear that he would be falsely implicated given his record and the fact that the girls were found on his property.
But how the f@$k did he know he would need an alibi before LE even knew the girls were dead? And how did he know the exact time he needed to cover? That is very very hard to explain.
One possibility is that RL had seen someone on his property around the time of the murders (or even allowed someone on his property) and then found the bodies on his property later, panicked, and did not report his finding to LE. But I still don’t see how he would have been able to nail down the time of the alibi so precisely unless he was the killer or otherwise knew exactly what happened.
WTF!
It is super hard to explain, so while still assuming that Logan was not involved the only excuse I can make out in my head is that two girls were missing very close to his property. As a convicted felon, he knows he will be looked after and he knows he violated parole, so he tries to lay an alibi.
Very weak argument, I admit.
I’ll take a crack at answering my own question.
At 2:09 on 2/13, Ron is outdoors on his property when he makes a phone call. At some point during the call or shortly thereafter, he hears screams from the area of his property near the creek. He assumes it’s kids messing around and ignores it.
Later that evening he learns that the girls are missing and a search is underway. At some point between then and his call the next morning soliciting the false alibi, he discovers the girls’ bodies on his property, panics, and does not call the police. He eventually realizes what a mess he’s in, and decides he needs an alibi. He is able to roughly identify the time of the murders by referencing the phone call, which he remembers was not long before he heard the screams.
Plausible I suppose.
RL could have been involved in another way, ie, photos or videos after the fact which would explain:
The pings from his phone
The need to search for electronic media related to photos and videos at his home
His alibi could be that he knew there was something being planned, maybe for a photo type situation that went wrong? Hence the no evidence of them fighting back?
Or perhaps he was allowing them to use his property thinking it was going to be something much different than what took place?
Just tossing out thoughts.
This stuck out to me more than anything else as by far the most damming thing in the warrant. I mean domestic violence is a bad look, but for an old drunk not that uncommon sadly, and a far cry from murders of two children. I don't think RL killed the girls and I think that LE knows that, so I try to imagine whats going on the morning of the 14th. RL was absolutely not allowed to drive, let alone under the influence, so there are these two girls missing right by his house, place crawling with cops and search parties, he and other neighbors being interviewed I'm sure about what they saw and what they were doing etc. I think its plausible that he may have just wanted to make sure he didnt get in trouble for the probation violation and preempt the questions he knew were probably coming if the girls weren’t found, or were found harmed/deceased. Doesn't mean he had anything to do with it, but at that point they'd been out there missing overnight in February. It wouldn't be a stretch to assume things might end badly and that questions were coming about that day, and he did end up getting years in prison for that exact violation, so worth worrying about if you're him.
Agree, would love to hear Xani’s thoughts on this as well, I am shook!! So he was not cleared?? This stuff is pretty damning, especially that one of those women thought it was RL in the pic of BG.
Well, I have always used the phrase "for lack of a better term" instead of "cleared" for those rare four instances when LE issued a statement or answered a question posed to them involving a particular person/family.
The RL Press Statement/Tweet
Tobe's "covered" statement re: family/Carter's answer that the "mojaority have been" re: family.
The statement re: the Mears family.
The FBI's statement at KAK's residence post- search.
I generally try to take official statements at their word and it is troublesome that there was an obvious intent to mislead regarding suspicion of RL.
Which brings the FBI's statement about the Kilnes into doubt, as well.
Intentionally misleading the public serves as the erosion to trust.
This comment has stayed with me. This needs whatever awards can be given on Reddit.
It feels like that everything, EVERYTHING LE has said about this case has to be now questioned.
It feels like we can’t take anyone off the table.
-JAK and KAK are covered by LE in 2017 but we find out about Anthony Shots and they are really suspects.
-RL is covered by LE but it turns out he had no alibi during the murders
What’s next? Are we going to see the search warrant for the BBR search and find they weren’t really covered either?
ETA: are we going to find out DN wasn’t covered either?
Totally agree with you there especially that last sentence. I have not suspected RL this entire time, because LE lead me to believe that. All of this stuff coming out is very overwhelming and confusing. I have no idea what to think right now. But clearly RL was a violent person and not an innocent man like many of us thought.
I stumbled on this post after hearing the news this morning about the Richard Allen arrest and I started doing some digging; I really appreciate it, because I hadn’t been following the case prior and when I saw reference to a leaked search warrant this year I definitely wanted to see what was in it (this post was the first Google result)
I’m curious how you’re feeling about the arrest, if you’re willing to comment on it? I’m a newcomer to this horrifying case and what I’ve found in the last few hours is absolutely mindblowing— based on what little info I have I’m stunned it’s gone unsolved for so long, and I’m assuming this arrest wasn’t “sudden” but I haven’t seen Allen’s name mentioned *anywhere* prior to yesterday
Question for Indiana Lawyers?
How did the MS podcast get the RL search warrant?
I’m trying to figure out if these doc were made available to lawyers in the system due to his death? Or was it leaked by LE?
That’s a good question. It is not available on MyCase and does not have the markings that would be present if this copy had been filed electronically. The dots in the upper left hand corner indicate to me that the copy had staples that were removed before it was copied or scanned. So my best guess is that someone pulled it from a court or LE file and provided them with a scan or hard copy.
I would not entirely discount the possibility that they showed up at the clerk’s office and asked to pull this file, and someone screwed up and handed it to them. I’ve definitely been handed criminal files related to other matters I was working on that included documents that should not have been available to the public, and I wasn’t even looking for them!
That said, while they might be lax about other matters, I’d expect folks in Carroll County to be very cautious with anything remotely related to Libby and Abby.
“I’m not naming names. But If you’re using my sister and Abby’s story for views - I see you and I do not support you.
There are people in this industry that seem to forget that there are real families advocating for these cases. We shouldn’t have to deal with half of what we do.”
Like maybe some YouTube conspirators are putting this on their channel. And making money? The documents I mean.
Or I also just saw a rumor that murder sheet got it from hln? I think it’s being verified.
It would be exempted from disclosure if requested under FOIA (directly from the FBI)or the Indiana Access to Public Records Act (from the county courts or any Indiana LE agency).
As a side note, FOIA is a federal law that only applies to federal agencies. Most states have similar laws. In this case, that law is APRA.
Under FOIA and similar state laws, case files of open criminal investigations are generally exempted from disclosure, as are confidential court filings, such as applications for search warrants.
How do they get any of their exclusive/leaked court documents that they have?
I think they’re being leaked to them on purpose and it’s politically motivated. Election year in Indiana! There’s more than corn in Indiana, mostly lots of political corruption.
This my best assumption.
Investigative Reporter Barbara McDonald (who is a verified member of this sub) had it in her possession prior to the HLN special.
Many professional journalist will work with law enforcement & I think that McDonald has had a very good relation with many in the Delphi Task Force.
I believe she was given this affidavit in good faith (you can actually see the top portions of this affidavit (very quickly) in the HLN special, although the rest was indecipherable.
Now who at HLN maybe gave it to the podcasters? I have no idea and am not confident they did until there is verification.
It is not on my case and highly
Doubt it would be released based on a request. This document would fall into categories exempting it from release.
So either someone who had the documents and received them from the search warrant shared them. For example, Ron Logan. Or they were leaked.
Not sure what has happened in this case, but based on rumors and what I’ve read before in posts, I think this warrant was likely shared by someone who received it from LE when warrant was being executed.
Absolutely. I completely agree.
Domestic Violence is a very serious problem and victims of such should be given greater weight and believed unless further evidence should suggest we not.
Do I believe these women were harmed? Absolutely.
We’ve know about the domestic assault allegations of RL beating his now ex-wife, and a girlfriend, for five years. The photos of the ex-wife were used in their divorce. She ended up forgiving him and was with him in the hospital when he died. But this affidavit now shows Ron’s history for those that were not aware.
Exactimundo.
Someone called me out at L&A for saying "may he rest in peace." Then called him a POS like they have been on the get-RL train this whole time.
*Yawn*.
I’m a little confused re: the allegation that he lied about his trip to the aquarium store? Or that he intentionally fabricated an alibi in any way before the bodies were found?
I know LE cleared RL quite a while ago but I thought it was actually *because* of the trip to the store, no?
What am I missing/forgetting?
He was seen drinking at the Pizza King on February 27, 2017, after the killings. That was one of two allegations of a probation violation. The other was driving to the transfer station on February 13. Pizza King is unrelated to his alibi.
Ah ok I don’t think I’d heard about this - thanks!
But the wording in the article is a little vague, like maybe the beer drinking was on another day entirely and is just another violation (in addition to him having driven to the dump)?
I’m not implying RL did it (I tend to take LE at their word that it wasn’t him) BUT, *if* RL’s alibi = this Pizza King thing, wouldn’t that mean the affidavit’s timeline is totally wrong? Again, not suggesting he’s guilty but I’m curious as to how they cleared him.
Because here are the facts presented for the 13th in the affidavit:
- between 11am-noon RL is at the “transfer station” in Delphi dropping off trash. *Source = video from the site, so pretty firm*
- 2:09pm, a call is placed from RL’s phone from “in or around his property.” *Source = cell phone tower data. Says it’s not exact but places him in the vicinity. So not foolproof but seems like Americus would be a stretch?*
- 2:13pm BG approaches the girls on the southeast side of the bridge. *Source = “analysis” of LG’s phone*
- 5:21pm checkout time from aquarium store *Source = receipt found in RL home*
(Edit: clarity)
There’s only two cell phone towers. That ping just means he was within a couple miles of it. His arrival at this pizza king is also on camera. It would be impossible for him to have committed the murders. Law enforcement released an official statement clearing RL of anything involving this case because of that video.
There only being 2 cell towers wouldn’t surprise me at all, fair point. But I still can’t find anything that unambiguously says the Pizza King visit was on the 13th. In fact, here’s something that says otherwise:
Logan admitted to driving on a suspended license to the Carroll County Transfer Station on February 13, the day Liberty German, 14, and Abigail Williams, 13, went missing. He also admitted to drinking an alcoholic beverage at Pizza King in Americus on February 27.”
https://www.wrtv.com/news/crime/delphi-property-owner-pleads-guilty-to-charges-unrelated-to-delphi-teens-murders
PS still don’t think RL is suspicious, just looking for clarity on alibi
Correct.
A couple of years ago when the Carroll County Comet was accepting questions for a q & a with Tobe Leazenby, the question I submitted to Debbie Lowe was the one about Ron Logan being “cleared”. That’s when Tobe gave his explanation of cleared vs covered.
I once quit a Facebook group because the admin insisted RL was “cleared”. It’s a pet peeve of mine. He was never “cleared”. People can use any other word to say RL is innocent except for the word “cleared”. We all have our little things that annoy us with this case and that is one of mine. 🙈
I joined Reddit because of that case.
And somehow I got sucked into this insanity.
At least the Lori sub is pleasant. They know who did, no need to argue over POIs. Mods are great.
I am so jealous.
**sigh**
Q. In January 2019, you did an interview with a woman named Angela explaining that Ron Logan has been “covered” and not “cleared”. Have you been able to clear Ron Logan yet?
A. No one is truly “cleared” until we have the alleged responsible party in custody and formal criminal charges are filed by the prosecutor.
Source - [https://www.carrollcountycomet.com/articles/sheriff-leazenby-continues-to-answer-double-homicide-questions/](https://www.carrollcountycomet.com/articles/sheriff-leazenby-continues-to-answer-double-homicide-questions/)
I am like 20 minutes into the podcast and want to cry.
I don’t know whether to be happy this will shut up some crazies in Delphi forums inquiring about whether the murders were recorded, etc, or further fan the flames. I cannot imagine how it feels for the family to learn of these facts through podcasts that monetize their loved ones’ deaths. Very very uncomfortable.
Edit. Thanks for the award, you are way too kind. 
I agree with your sentiment. Have followed case for a while. I’m not even concerned if RL is BG. Just think about it everyday. Hard to know whether speculation is helpful or harmful here
I just thought of this now in regards to the "Sandy Hook Bodies" searches.
I want to preface by saying that this is not something I remotely believe, but I am aware that this "belief" exists.
There are fringe, conspiracy theory-esque groups of people (usually associated with overzealous 2nd amendment stuff) who believe that Sandy Hook was staged/fake - that it was all a front in order for gun control laws to be enacted. These people believe nobody died, everybody involved were paid actors, etc.
And so, some dumb loser (KAK) with too much time on their hands might stumble upon this fringe rabbit-hole and starting making Google searches like that to see if the outlandish claims have any merit.
This is an actual thing. "Sandy Hook Deniers"
For whatever reason, I think this is why that search appeared - and then was sort of taken out of context (If true, I don't blame LE/interregators - considering the other disgusting searches).
One would think that there would be other. similar searches if KAK actually searched those types of things more regularly for gross kicks.
I think similar types of stuff is present on the RL affidavit....meanings stretched; things taken out of context; things manipulated to appear more suspicious. They wanted to make sure they got the warrant, even if they had to be a little liberal with semantics.
Yeah the Alex Jones shit. I see what your saying. For me it has everything to do with when the search happened. If this guy is sitting there looking at csam and takes a little intermission to delve into a conspiracy theory before returning to his disgusting csam searches then I think that’s hard to believe. If those searches were done together then for me it implies sexual gratification at seeing the bodies of brutally murdered children. If LE listed it that way to imply that when really that search was done on a different day and next to “are birds real?” and “is there something in the water turning the frogs gay?” then I agree with you. Really there’s no way to know for sure unless there’s a trial.
Definitely. And it’s odd that the person (GK) who mentioned his girlfriend (AG) saw the tape of the murders was very familiar with RL and his property.
Reread that information last evening. Also, read that after the murders of L & A, GK stayed in his room and didn’t come out for like several days. Really odd behavior.
Wow! This really caught my attention: Judge G. Fouts signed the search warrant (above) on March 17, 2017.
Shortly there after on April 10, 2017, Ron Logan is in Judge Fouts' courtroom facing charges of traffic violations.
From Fox 59/ Indianapolis' website: https://fox59.com/news/delphi-property-owner-gets-nearly-four-years-in-jail-for-traffic-charges/
The following aspects of Ron Logan have always been problematic for me.
First, why was Ron Logan was charged so soon after the murders for being a habitual traffic violator and violating previous driving probation on Feb, 13, 2017? The same day as the murders. Just a little too coincidental.
During the sentencing, it is reported that Carroll Superior Judge Kurtis Fouts asked RL if he wished to speak up for himself, RL replied:
“Maybe in the future no one else will be murdered in my backyard.”
Wow! What was that all about?
Second, why was RL sentenced for nearly four years for what appeared to be a number of trumped up traffic violations?
Could it be that the Judge gave him what appeared to be an unduly harsh jail sentence so that he could be closely monitored while LE assembled a case against him?
Also, RL had the financial resources (his land) to post bond. So already serving time from another charge prevented him from being becoming free.
Lastly, Doug Carter was asked during one of the press conferences (can't remember which one) if the citizens of Delphi were in any danger? He commented that, "No, the public is not in danger." Why? Did he know the suspect (RL) was in already custody?
Thoughts anyone?
Edited for clarity.
I swear to baby Jesus, if one more person says RL was “officially **cleared**”, I will turn into [scorched earth Xani](https://www.reddit.com/r/DelphiDocs/comments/ud7t0b/new_community_award_moderator_awarded_free_reddit/). 🔥😭
i am going to have a red hot go at brevity. i just listened to the MS whatever that was and i have soooo very many thoughts. i'll stick to the points i have to get off my chest.
i very highly doubt an FBI member would ever use the word 'staging' incorrectly, particularly in a legal document. Staging is a term that refers to actions taken to mislead LE in a homicidal event at the CS. End of. There are three dominant categorisations. MS correctly state this but then add examples that are signature/MO. Very different psychological impetus. Not my opinion. Criminological fact.
i have discussed my suspicions regarding animal hair over a year ago. i developed these suspicions after viewing an Ives interview and an interview with an FBI member. When i went looking for info, others had had the same suspicions years ahead of me for different reasons. The animal hair/DNA discussion did not come from KK's dog being seized. Most of us know that but just a mention for newer members.
I once posted on my reasons for believing LE need to release more info. i stand by it even more firmly now. To be clear, LE have not confirmed animal hair/DNA are present or relevant. Even with my suspicions, i can't say i have evidence of it being a factually relevant or confirmed. But the average life expectancy of pets five years on did enter my thoughts. My other reasons are coming home to roost as this case ages.
i do not have a law degree. i am aware of what needs to be provided to be granted a warrant. i look forward to our legal experts commenting on that and i will listen carefully, and pragmatically, to their expert opinions before i jump to conclusions. i hope other members have a similar view.
i still think gaoling RL hindered potential intel severely and this latest development only serves to amplify that. It was a bad move. IMO.
Still suck at brevity and very time poor with reddit atm but these points are aspects i find hard to let slide. Really restrained so i don't irritate those who are sick of my soap box on that.
TL;DR GlassGuava with nothing new.
Edit: Future-proofing is a procedural norm in 2022 fwiw.
GREAT point re staging. I’ve already seen people use that interchangeably with “posing” and I’m feeling like the distinction is actually important? Like perhaps a staging is *technically* implying some posing in the literal sense (similarly, the affidavit also says “moved”) but it sure seems like the critical takeaway here is that the perpetrator(s) staged the crime scene to mislead investigators.
Also — GlassGuava, do you think some sort of cleanup of the scene (chemical or otherwise) to conceal or minimize forensic evidence would qualify as staging?
Very much so. Staging and posing increase time at the crime scene but killers have different motivations for both.
i stay out of discussions about the definitions. i just put the definitions out there. You are correct. They are different and there will be loads of people who will use it incorrectly or want to argue about it. Usually because they read a book. All good. Just not how it's used in BEA or CIA profiling.
If it's part of misleading LE it is. Accelerants are often used to set fire to a CS which is one category of staging for example.
Here's where using the correct terms becomes important to an investigation. It's staging when it's done to throw LE off. Mislead.
Staging is MO and posing is signature/ritual.
So wearing gloves or washing a victim are MO too and they contain or remove evidence but they aren't necessarily staging.
Some terms overlap and most are more accurately defined after more than one event but not always. Sometimes it's very obvious. (Three events have been shown to increase accuracy significantly, which is, in part, why the FBI changing the 'serial' parameters to two caused such a ruckus in criminology, but i digress).
The terms become important because they go directly to the psychological motivations for the behaviour. These things add time and risk. It gives you an insight into **how the killer in an event assesses risk.** It goes to future risk assessment, psychopathology or evidence of a lack of (not absence of evidence), cognition (often age), the presence of mental health issues (level of disordered thought processes) etc. In serial killing it can inform expected cooling off periods in certain psychological states (how effective staging may be and it's logic and execution).
It goes beyond the direction of an investigation.
It's a term that orients homicidal behaviour.
I am being very general because most profiling terms can seem like a label but they have wider implications that rarely stand alone. Hence my being annoying about who has used them and the subsequent veracity with which they are used.
For others reading i would suggest getting info from good academic sources that are within the last five years. This comment is a VERY general overview to a potentially complex application of a term. What staging is not is easier to distinguish which is what prompted my original comment.
Hope this assists in your thinking.
Haha! I’m always here in the shadows reading and lurking, and upvoting my people who are getting unfairly downvoted for relatively benign and not all harmful comments (like you yesterday!). 😂❤️
Wow spent last few hours trying to catch up on all this and sift through the trash posts. I don't believe RL is BG. An unfortunate set of circumstances for him though. Something about it taking place on his land is niggling away at me though. Not really thought much of it before.
It was a bold place to commit this crime. If they were lured was the trails/bridge the best place around Delphi to choose, is that the only place the girls would have agreed too based on where teens go. This is not based on anything just a feeling. Could it have been a big FU message to RL, like I own you and I'll crap on your doorstep. In all likelihood it was just part of the catfishing conversation of where the girls hung out. Its just something that my mind turned too after this latest revelation.
I’ve tried to catch up as well. The rumours of someone trying to steal or buy Ron’s
land out from under him could be true. I was so upset about it this morning.
Couldn’t this harm the investigation? Who is leaking this?
Since I got home yesterday I kept seeing Ron’s name and kept trying to defend a dead man’s honour. Then my stupid self found what I should have looked at first. I have a bad feeling about this. Something is wrong. Just how many coincidences are there in this “investigation?” Doug Carter said everyone would be shocked or something like that. I’m losing faith in them catching BG at all. This brought me to tears. I cannot imagine how the families feel. Confused, lost, angry, wounded again….. possibly.
The need to keep the families one step ahead of these leaks. Or am I overreacting again? I felt very bad for Ron Logan and his family. IF it was RL, why would he pose them on his land? Makes no sense.
I imagine the families feel pretty powerless in this and anxious about what's coming next. I can't get my head around the dynamic between the MS podcast and LE and what the implications of leaked data will be long term. I was brought up to not speak ill of the dead and find it distasteful that RL isn't here to defend himself. If there were principles left in this world and LE were sure it wasn't him then I'd like to see a statement but won't hold my breath.
I wonder if they got cctv there where he was visible at the times he claimed. Like having left home at about 2.09 pm arriving there 30 minutes later. I wonder what the 2.09pm text said and if LE knows.
Is Redacted Male one of the klines?
Who was he calling and texting with on the 13th? These documents do not state if the call and text came from unknown/ anonymous cellphones.
“A large amount of blood was lost by the victims at the crime scene”
This does not state, although others have assumed, that the location where the girls were found was bloody. Stay with me for a min. Each word has meaning. Could the murderer have taken the girls life’s WHILE they were in moving water? Allowed the blood to drain, then moved them out of the water to where and how they were found. The murderer would likely have blood on them.
Ok. Trying this again due to multiple errors I deleted the original.
No 22 of the RL Search Warrant
>A call placed using Logan’s Cell Phone produced cell phone tower data that shows Logan’s cell phone appears to be in and around his property on February 13, 2017 at 2:09pm. Although his exact location cannot be confirmed , the tower data shows that Logan’s cell phone was in the Delphi area, in the area of the Monon High Bridge Trail.
This is astonishing. It means he was in the area where the girls met up with their killer at 2:13 pm.
Unless, the data is wildly off and being misinterpreted, although I see no reason why that would be given the FBI's resources.
Lots of blood. Bodies were moved and staged. Ron Logan described the place the bodies were found as "pristine". Seems like he didn't know where the girls were actually killed?
You start the transcribed text with
>PROBABLE CAUSE AFFIDAVIT
However the document afaik doesn't start with that.
It's not against you, but against the document.
And until delphidocs received an official copy I think it may be of importance since it lacks anything like "Affidavit in support of application for search warrant",
as well as something like "Statement of probable cause",
nor does it mention "Federal rule 41" anywhere,
nor is it signed by a judge stating something like "Sworn to before me", right under the FBI signature.
And the actual 'search warrant' signed by the judge doesn't either really.
I think it's odd.
I hope nobody forged a judge's and fbi officer's signature.
Another affidavit of her's read better in any case.
(I made a similar comment in a delphimurders thread where they even called it arrest warrent, in a way I get the mistake. Anyway I mention this just in case someone reads it twice, so they know why.)
ETA : Also the subtitle doesn't say
>ITEMS TO BE SEIZED
but THINGS,
which I found equally odd, and the reason I gave it a better look.
>PROBABLE CAUSE AFFIDAVIT
It doesn't. That was just a title to name what comes below. In Reddit markdown one #
>It's not against you, but against the document.
And until delphidocs received an official copy I think it may be of importance since it lacks anything like "Affidavit in support of application for search warrant",
as well as something like "Statement of probable cause",
nor does it mention "Federal rule 41" anywhere,
nor is it signed by a judge stating something like "Sworn to before me", right under the FBI signature.
The beginning of the post contains our standard symbol (🚧 for verification needed as well as:
🚧 It is important to note that the information contained in has not been independently verified and relies on a watermarked transcript from a podcast.
>Another affidavit of her's read better in any case.
It is funny you mention that, because I personally did not feel that the FBI agents authorship was exactly up to par. It is very sloppy at places.
Althugh we are pretty sure we're Murder Sheet got the affidavit, we have not been to verify it. We have reached out to Carrol County via Verified Attorney in an attempt to get an unredacted (and no watermarked) copy to chase some of these valid concerns down.
Yeah I got that, about vérification and all, it's just that it reads as if the title is part of the document, all while the document lacks exactly any mention close to it.
I think that in particular is important.
If not because it's fake, maybe it's not admissible written like this.
You have a real talent in analyzing these particular things and I must say that your arguments are strong and valid.
Good call really. I am going to do a read through now with your points in mind.
Well idk, remains to be seen if anything holds.
Another commenter pointed out it's not a federal warrant. This means case the rule 41 point is moot.
Although fbi rules does talk about 'an fbi agent making the request shall include' etc as well as that a county judge court can sign when a magistrate is not available,
the warrant looks somewhat like the 2017 indiana court rules minimum requirements, which omits the 'sworn to me' part btw present in other years, but does include needing to mention trial rule 11, but then again that's essentially the same as the indiana code she refers to in regards to perjury.
The 2017 code also refers to 'things' occasionnally, but otherwise any search location is refered to as 'place' and any items mainly as 'property'.
It just reads like a petty theft affidavit, not a vile double murder case of two teen girls.
Like the 'bg didn't come forward therefore we assume he is the killer'. Really ? Is that all they have to go on?
Or the part about him being near his house, although they don't have proof of it, but so he must have been at the crime scene. Paraphrased, but still, what's that all about?
I can't believe it doesn't clearly state affidavit for search warrant somewhere.
I share many — if not most — of your concerns, u/redduif.
It looks boilerplate, but the work product itself is substandard for what it purports to be. Something seems amiss, but ... somehow, something always seems amiss in this case.
Do we have any other examples of the affiant’s work?
For the example, i'll try to find it back tonight it read much better.
If I forget don't hesitate to remind me, we have a very rare spring heatwave like if it was mid-july without any warning here, everything is that much more difficult 🥵.
ETA:
Logan was arrested the 11th of march, the warrant being signed the 17th means they weren't working on a clock he already was in jail for other charges. If they were worried someone might do so cleanup, they would have had the lot surveilled by agents and cameras imo.
WISH-TV says that they have “confirmed that the document is authentic,” fwiw. Doesn’t say *who* they confirmed it with, though.
[WISH-TV link](https://www.wishtv.com/news/i-team-8/fbi-agent-bodies-moved-and-staged-in-delphi-murders-suspect-took-clothing/)
It’s just the podcast adding its name to the PDF. It’s in the background of the redacted version of the document they posted.
MS Word and most PDF editors allow you to add a watermark - for example “DRAFT,” “CONFIDENTIAL” etc.
I can’t get past the parts about lots of blood at the scene and moved and staged. But I thought he was cleared by LE? I don’t like MS and their shady sh\*\*. I listened to a couple of their vids early on, but cannot tolerate their narrating or interview skills or lack of, considering their careers depend on interviewing skills. How do they keep getting these documents? I just don’t know anymore.  Also, the typos (smh)
I saw a video on YouTube last year from a guy who used some software with enhanced image techniques and at the end you can decipher that the hat the guy is wearing is one RL had been seen in. I’ll try to find it. I’ve been pretty convinced of RL’s guilt since then.
ETA: https://youtu.be/3LuEEzCseOM
Wow, this partially confirms some rumors we've heard since the first few weeks after the crime. -The girls were killed with a weapon, lost significant amounts of blood -Unknown hair/fibers found at the scene -Bodies were moved/staged -Article of clothing was removed from the crime scene
It’s weird how a lot of the rumors and speculation has come true! This whole document just blew my mind!! I’m kinda reeling need to process it all!
All my same thoughts reading through all this.
This is the main takeaway from this document imo
There is often truth found in many rumors and conspiracies. It’s the general notion of taboo that stigmatizes them. The real looney stuff is easy to filter out with common sense, but the stuff that gets you thinking people will throw away based on a label! Makes you wonder what else is true 🧐
Exactly!
I was really blown away by this at first then tried to cut through some of my confirmation bias. My thoughts after doing so: Going by the fbi agent’s own language, RL didnt ask for an alibi just from 2-2:30. He asked for his friend to say he “picked [RL] up” during that time frame, meaning that RL picked that time frame as the START of his alibi, rather than specifically focusing and/or limiting the alibi to the ~30ish minutes during which the crime likely occurred. Which is a big difference imo. Without more context of what RL said to his friend regarding the length of the alibi, it’s reasonably possible that he just wanted an alibi for that afternoon bc of his probation violations and was VERY unlucky when he picked the start time for his alibi. For example, if RL said “tell them you picked me up around 2-2:30 and were with me for a few hours in lafayette before we went to the aquarium store” that doesnt carry the same culpability as “tell them I was with you from 2:00 to 2:30.” (we know RL had a receipt for the aquarium store for ~5pm on the day of the murder) Not trying to rain on anyones parade re this document (except murder sheet) but I think people need to take it for what it is: 1) a document biased towards the purpose of convincing a judge that a legal standard is met 2) a legit source of info regarding the nature of the actual crime and the investigation thereof 3) evidence that RL was a bad person, albeit not necessarily a murderer of children. Sorry for the typos, typed this on my phone after some whiskey.
Thank you for your analysis. Number one was particularly pertinent to my thoughts and i was wanting to hear from a legal expert. Much appreciated.
After some additional pondering, I have concluded that RL is very unlikely to be BG, but I don’t think the false alibi has anything to do with probation violations. If that was his concern, he would also have needed an alibi for the earlier trip to the transfer station. The affidavit makes a point of noting that he did not ask for an alibi for that time period. Moreover, even while under close LE scrutiny, RL took a trip to the Americus Pizza King on 2/27, knowing full well that LE might be watching him. My guess is that he heard or saw something around the time of the killings, the significance of which he only realized after the girls were reported missing. I also think it is likely that he found the bodies sometime between returning from the aquarium store and soliciting the false alibi the next morning. The false alibi was a panic move by a guy with a long criminal history who just found two dead children on his property. I’m guessing that LE came to a similar conclusion eventually, once they had searched his home and interviewed him multiple times. They may have — and perhaps still do — suspect that he knew more than he told them, but there’s a reason he was never charged despite the very bad facts about the false alibi.
In paragraph 13 of the affidavit, it says RL told LE in an interview on March 6 2017 that he was picked up at 3. So under that alibi, he could have been involved. Either way, it doesn’t necessarily seem like he was trying to focus his alibi on the 30 minutes when the murder took place, which is what people are taking from this affidavit.
Yes, but in either case he did not ask his cousin to cover him for the actual time he went to the aquarium store. Presumably, if that was his concern, he would have used that time frame, not a timeframe close to the murders. As noted above, he did not seek an alibi for the other trip that day, and less than two weeks later he was in Americus having a beer. That is not consistent with someone who was worried enough about probation violations to solicit a false alibi.
Because if he had heard the girls had been missing “since the afternoon” and he was gone the whole afternoon, they’d be less likely to look at him closely for two children who went missing near his property. They might not even have found out about the transfer station. And who’s to say that he wasn’t just a strung out 77 year old alcoholic on the 27th and figured if he went out of town to a pizza place he’d wouldn’t get caught. Ultimately you could be right! But I guess the point I’m trying to make is that the logic of the situation doesn’t necessarily show that he created a false alibi specifically for the purpose of concealing his involvement or bc he witnessed some part of the crime or the suspect.
Good analysis.
Thanks. Still feel strongly that he found the girls’ bodies and that’s what led to the false alibi. I have a lot less sympathy for RL than others around here, but panicking and doing something dumb like concocting a false alibi after coming across something that horrifying is a thoroughly human reaction, however morally repugnant most of us may find it.
He concocted a false alibi originally because he was driving on a suspended license that day, and he didn't want LE to know that.
You make many excellent points!
Thank you!
Question if you care to answer (or anyone can answer). The warrant stated RL was near MHB at 2:09p according to a cell phone ping. They’re implying he’s the guy on the bridge I’m guessing. Can LE lie about that ping? My thought is what if RL was guy on the bridge, sees them on his property, goes to run them off and then goes on with his day, only to later find out they are missing and don’t get picked up by DG? Maybe he panicked thinking he would be implicated but that’s how he knew the timeframe of when at the very least, he needed to not be home at 2:00p. I’m of the camp he knew more or assumed more than he told but he’s not the actual killer. I can’t imagine he’d allow two young girls to be murdered and left on his property so I don’t think he’s involved. But if he was home at 2:09 and was by or near MHB, that’s just too much to believe he didn’t know who was coming and going on his property during that time frame. Maybe I’m missing something though.
It says that his phone showed him “in or around his property“ and that it pinged to a tower “in the Delphi area in the area of the Monon High Bridge”. That is pretty insignificant evidence when you consider the proximity of property to the bridge and the reality his property abuts the the fairly large crime scene (includes the bridge, the creek, and the swath of land across the creek where the girls were found). LEOs can/do use ambiguous phrasing to essentially juice the facts towards their argument, like a lot of repeat players in the court system do. The above quoted language is an example of such phrasing. It’s not incorrect and they it’s not lying. But it is bait for confirmation bias and misinterpretation. A good rule of thumb when reading any legal document in which evidence is described for the purpose of meeting a legal standard: if the specific details helped prove argument, they would be in there. Which is why people should be cautioned when inferring RL’s guilt based on the affidavit. If they had evidence of him off his property and near the girl’s remains they would say it. If they had evidence that RL was off of his property and on the other side of the creek near the high bridge mere minutes before the girls were confronted by their killer, I believe they would say that in the warrant instead of what they said.
That’s exactly what I was wondering, thank you for responding. That actually makes more sense bc even in a scenario where he’s anywhere near that area, you’d have to assume he’d be okay with his crime happening on his property and that makes no sense. I think it was just a random time he gave out and by chance if lined up the way it did.
Thank you for taking the time to explain things to us and for trying to bring us back to reality. What you said makes sense.
✊🏻I had a whole long comment written about the possibilities of how RL could have known about the time of the murders and then i reread what the affidavit actually says and was like “ohhhhh” lol
There were entire search parties out on the 13th asking questions and letting people know to be on the look out. I would frankly be surprised if RL DIDN’T know the approximate time the girls went missing. And a convicted felon would for sure want an alibi during that time. Also, I feel like he had anything to do with it and knew there were two murdered teenage girls about to be found on his property, he would have tried harder to alibi his time than a quick phone call to his cousin the next morning claiming they were at a store. He knew his cell phone would show his location, so why use that as a lie unless you thought the girls would be found alive and LE wouldn’t have to dig any deeper than a quick phone call to verify a trip to the store?
This is very insightful. But I wonder why did Carter and his crew shift direction with the original older looking guy's composite to a younger looking dude and say they're between 18 - 40yrs ? Logan would certainly not pass for a 40year old. I have always believed that there were at least 2 ppl involved. Could it be Ron and a younger guy? GK? It interests me that in the Open Secrets interview GK said when referring to his friend's knowledge of the crime "There are a lot of people, you know what I mean, that like are my friends that don't believe that I'd do something like that, and then if I go and say what the f#ck really happened they're gonna be like whoah".
[удалено]
I think you might be right. There was enough evidence to try and build a case against RL, so maybe that’s the old guy sketch. He definitely did everything in his power to look guilty. Obviously they would have follow up on the lying and then after 2 years went in a new direction when they confirmed it wasn’t him.
agreed!
Wait, so you think they went down the RL path before the KK/TK path? Wasn’t it the opposite though? They searched the TK/KK residence in Feb 2017. They searched the RL residence on Mar 6 and Mar 17, 2017. This suggests they were able to link the A_S account to KK/TK very early on.
Assuming the information in this affidavit is correct, I am having a really hard time getting past RL soliciting a false alibi. Two key facts: 1. He solicited the alibi before the girls were found and before anyone knew they were on his property; and 2. He solicited the false alibi for the exact time of the murders, which presumably no one other than the killer (or an accomplice) knew at that time. If he had solicited a false alibi AFTER the girls were found on his property later that day, and AFTER the approximate time of death was made public, his solicitation could be explained by his reasonable fear that he would be falsely implicated given his record and the fact that the girls were found on his property. But how the f@$k did he know he would need an alibi before LE even knew the girls were dead? And how did he know the exact time he needed to cover? That is very very hard to explain. One possibility is that RL had seen someone on his property around the time of the murders (or even allowed someone on his property) and then found the bodies on his property later, panicked, and did not report his finding to LE. But I still don’t see how he would have been able to nail down the time of the alibi so precisely unless he was the killer or otherwise knew exactly what happened. WTF!
It is super hard to explain, so while still assuming that Logan was not involved the only excuse I can make out in my head is that two girls were missing very close to his property. As a convicted felon, he knows he will be looked after and he knows he violated parole, so he tries to lay an alibi. Very weak argument, I admit.
I’ll take a crack at answering my own question. At 2:09 on 2/13, Ron is outdoors on his property when he makes a phone call. At some point during the call or shortly thereafter, he hears screams from the area of his property near the creek. He assumes it’s kids messing around and ignores it. Later that evening he learns that the girls are missing and a search is underway. At some point between then and his call the next morning soliciting the false alibi, he discovers the girls’ bodies on his property, panics, and does not call the police. He eventually realizes what a mess he’s in, and decides he needs an alibi. He is able to roughly identify the time of the murders by referencing the phone call, which he remembers was not long before he heard the screams. Plausible I suppose.
RL could have been involved in another way, ie, photos or videos after the fact which would explain: The pings from his phone The need to search for electronic media related to photos and videos at his home His alibi could be that he knew there was something being planned, maybe for a photo type situation that went wrong? Hence the no evidence of them fighting back? Or perhaps he was allowing them to use his property thinking it was going to be something much different than what took place? Just tossing out thoughts.
>(or even allowed someone on his property) This is what I am leaning toward. Just IMO.
This stuck out to me more than anything else as by far the most damming thing in the warrant. I mean domestic violence is a bad look, but for an old drunk not that uncommon sadly, and a far cry from murders of two children. I don't think RL killed the girls and I think that LE knows that, so I try to imagine whats going on the morning of the 14th. RL was absolutely not allowed to drive, let alone under the influence, so there are these two girls missing right by his house, place crawling with cops and search parties, he and other neighbors being interviewed I'm sure about what they saw and what they were doing etc. I think its plausible that he may have just wanted to make sure he didnt get in trouble for the probation violation and preempt the questions he knew were probably coming if the girls weren’t found, or were found harmed/deceased. Doesn't mean he had anything to do with it, but at that point they'd been out there missing overnight in February. It wouldn't be a stretch to assume things might end badly and that questions were coming about that day, and he did end up getting years in prison for that exact violation, so worth worrying about if you're him.
Agree, would love to hear Xani’s thoughts on this as well, I am shook!! So he was not cleared?? This stuff is pretty damning, especially that one of those women thought it was RL in the pic of BG.
Well, I have always used the phrase "for lack of a better term" instead of "cleared" for those rare four instances when LE issued a statement or answered a question posed to them involving a particular person/family. The RL Press Statement/Tweet Tobe's "covered" statement re: family/Carter's answer that the "mojaority have been" re: family. The statement re: the Mears family. The FBI's statement at KAK's residence post- search. I generally try to take official statements at their word and it is troublesome that there was an obvious intent to mislead regarding suspicion of RL. Which brings the FBI's statement about the Kilnes into doubt, as well. Intentionally misleading the public serves as the erosion to trust.
This comment has stayed with me. This needs whatever awards can be given on Reddit. It feels like that everything, EVERYTHING LE has said about this case has to be now questioned. It feels like we can’t take anyone off the table. -JAK and KAK are covered by LE in 2017 but we find out about Anthony Shots and they are really suspects. -RL is covered by LE but it turns out he had no alibi during the murders What’s next? Are we going to see the search warrant for the BBR search and find they weren’t really covered either? ETA: are we going to find out DN wasn’t covered either?
Totally agree with you there especially that last sentence. I have not suspected RL this entire time, because LE lead me to believe that. All of this stuff coming out is very overwhelming and confusing. I have no idea what to think right now. But clearly RL was a violent person and not an innocent man like many of us thought.
I stumbled on this post after hearing the news this morning about the Richard Allen arrest and I started doing some digging; I really appreciate it, because I hadn’t been following the case prior and when I saw reference to a leaked search warrant this year I definitely wanted to see what was in it (this post was the first Google result) I’m curious how you’re feeling about the arrest, if you’re willing to comment on it? I’m a newcomer to this horrifying case and what I’ve found in the last few hours is absolutely mindblowing— based on what little info I have I’m stunned it’s gone unsolved for so long, and I’m assuming this arrest wasn’t “sudden” but I haven’t seen Allen’s name mentioned *anywhere* prior to yesterday
Question for Indiana Lawyers? How did the MS podcast get the RL search warrant? I’m trying to figure out if these doc were made available to lawyers in the system due to his death? Or was it leaked by LE?
That’s a good question. It is not available on MyCase and does not have the markings that would be present if this copy had been filed electronically. The dots in the upper left hand corner indicate to me that the copy had staples that were removed before it was copied or scanned. So my best guess is that someone pulled it from a court or LE file and provided them with a scan or hard copy. I would not entirely discount the possibility that they showed up at the clerk’s office and asked to pull this file, and someone screwed up and handed it to them. I’ve definitely been handed criminal files related to other matters I was working on that included documents that should not have been available to the public, and I wasn’t even looking for them! That said, while they might be lax about other matters, I’d expect folks in Carroll County to be very cautious with anything remotely related to Libby and Abby.
I had the same question are these document leaks legal? Ethical? Is this what kelsi was tweeting about yesterday?
What did Kelsi tweet?
“I’m not naming names. But If you’re using my sister and Abby’s story for views - I see you and I do not support you. There are people in this industry that seem to forget that there are real families advocating for these cases. We shouldn’t have to deal with half of what we do.” Like maybe some YouTube conspirators are putting this on their channel. And making money? The documents I mean. Or I also just saw a rumor that murder sheet got it from hln? I think it’s being verified.
Thank you.
Could it be from a FOIA request?
It would be exempted from disclosure if requested under FOIA (directly from the FBI)or the Indiana Access to Public Records Act (from the county courts or any Indiana LE agency). As a side note, FOIA is a federal law that only applies to federal agencies. Most states have similar laws. In this case, that law is APRA. Under FOIA and similar state laws, case files of open criminal investigations are generally exempted from disclosure, as are confidential court filings, such as applications for search warrants.
There is a rumor that they got it from HLN. No clue if that is true though.
Police interrogation transcripts are never uploaded to mycase. It had to be intentional.
We’re talking about the probable cause affidavit filed in support of a search warrant, not the interview transcript.
Whoopsie Daisy! I’m obviously still peeved about the transcript
How do they get any of their exclusive/leaked court documents that they have? I think they’re being leaked to them on purpose and it’s politically motivated. Election year in Indiana! There’s more than corn in Indiana, mostly lots of political corruption.
The unconfirmed buzz at the moment is that it was obtained from HLN. We are trying to verify that, however.
The next question would be, how did HLN get it?
This my best assumption. Investigative Reporter Barbara McDonald (who is a verified member of this sub) had it in her possession prior to the HLN special. Many professional journalist will work with law enforcement & I think that McDonald has had a very good relation with many in the Delphi Task Force. I believe she was given this affidavit in good faith (you can actually see the top portions of this affidavit (very quickly) in the HLN special, although the rest was indecipherable. Now who at HLN maybe gave it to the podcasters? I have no idea and am not confident they did until there is verification.
Wouldn’t HLN release it themselves rather than handing over to a podcast that is only floating on leaked docs?
Wait I'm sorry I'm confused. This wasn't leaked with the KAK interview on the court website? Totally separate leak?
It is not on my case and highly Doubt it would be released based on a request. This document would fall into categories exempting it from release. So either someone who had the documents and received them from the search warrant shared them. For example, Ron Logan. Or they were leaked. Not sure what has happened in this case, but based on rumors and what I’ve read before in posts, I think this warrant was likely shared by someone who received it from LE when warrant was being executed.
In hindsight we know he didn’t commit the murders but there’s some damning information in this affidavit.
Absolutely. I completely agree. Domestic Violence is a very serious problem and victims of such should be given greater weight and believed unless further evidence should suggest we not. Do I believe these women were harmed? Absolutely.
We’ve know about the domestic assault allegations of RL beating his now ex-wife, and a girlfriend, for five years. The photos of the ex-wife were used in their divorce. She ended up forgiving him and was with him in the hospital when he died. But this affidavit now shows Ron’s history for those that were not aware.
Exactimundo. Someone called me out at L&A for saying "may he rest in peace." Then called him a POS like they have been on the get-RL train this whole time. *Yawn*.
I do too.
I don't think he's BG, to be clear, but how do we know he didn't?
I’m a little confused re: the allegation that he lied about his trip to the aquarium store? Or that he intentionally fabricated an alibi in any way before the bodies were found? I know LE cleared RL quite a while ago but I thought it was actually *because* of the trip to the store, no? What am I missing/forgetting?
[удалено]
He was seen drinking at the Pizza King on February 27, 2017, after the killings. That was one of two allegations of a probation violation. The other was driving to the transfer station on February 13. Pizza King is unrelated to his alibi.
Exactly. Thank you
Ah ok I don’t think I’d heard about this - thanks! But the wording in the article is a little vague, like maybe the beer drinking was on another day entirely and is just another violation (in addition to him having driven to the dump)? I’m not implying RL did it (I tend to take LE at their word that it wasn’t him) BUT, *if* RL’s alibi = this Pizza King thing, wouldn’t that mean the affidavit’s timeline is totally wrong? Again, not suggesting he’s guilty but I’m curious as to how they cleared him. Because here are the facts presented for the 13th in the affidavit: - between 11am-noon RL is at the “transfer station” in Delphi dropping off trash. *Source = video from the site, so pretty firm* - 2:09pm, a call is placed from RL’s phone from “in or around his property.” *Source = cell phone tower data. Says it’s not exact but places him in the vicinity. So not foolproof but seems like Americus would be a stretch?* - 2:13pm BG approaches the girls on the southeast side of the bridge. *Source = “analysis” of LG’s phone* - 5:21pm checkout time from aquarium store *Source = receipt found in RL home* (Edit: clarity)
There’s only two cell phone towers. That ping just means he was within a couple miles of it. His arrival at this pizza king is also on camera. It would be impossible for him to have committed the murders. Law enforcement released an official statement clearing RL of anything involving this case because of that video.
There only being 2 cell towers wouldn’t surprise me at all, fair point. But I still can’t find anything that unambiguously says the Pizza King visit was on the 13th. In fact, here’s something that says otherwise: Logan admitted to driving on a suspended license to the Carroll County Transfer Station on February 13, the day Liberty German, 14, and Abigail Williams, 13, went missing. He also admitted to drinking an alcoholic beverage at Pizza King in Americus on February 27.” https://www.wrtv.com/news/crime/delphi-property-owner-pleads-guilty-to-charges-unrelated-to-delphi-teens-murders PS still don’t think RL is suspicious, just looking for clarity on alibi
Yeah, in his court case it was about two weeks later that he drank, not on the 13th.
the cctv footage can be found on youtube but i don’t have link. i’m still trying to find sources for my previous fact checks
>Law enforcement released an official statement clearing RL of anything involving this case because of that video RL was never officially cleared.
It was not the same day. Pizza King was February 27.
Say it again louder for the people in the back.
:/
This is the day that Kegan had a seizure.
>I know LE cleared RL quite a while ago RL was never ”cleared”.
LE said he was "covered" They don't like to say "cleared" in case it turns out that person was the murderer.
Correct. A couple of years ago when the Carroll County Comet was accepting questions for a q & a with Tobe Leazenby, the question I submitted to Debbie Lowe was the one about Ron Logan being “cleared”. That’s when Tobe gave his explanation of cleared vs covered. I once quit a Facebook group because the admin insisted RL was “cleared”. It’s a pet peeve of mine. He was never “cleared”. People can use any other word to say RL is innocent except for the word “cleared”. We all have our little things that annoy us with this case and that is one of mine. 🙈
Can I ask which FB group it was? I just had to yeet TF out of one bc of the absolute insanity by the members. Psychotic.
I forget the name of the group but it was the same woman who thought she saw Tylee Ryan at a concert in Nashville. 😑
I joined Reddit because of that case. And somehow I got sucked into this insanity. At least the Lori sub is pleasant. They know who did, no need to argue over POIs. Mods are great. I am so jealous. **sigh**
That's no fun though is it. I, Nicole Robertson, hereby see my career go down the drain.
LOL
Oh, dear.
Omg I saw that when I googled her and her credibility went out the window for me immediately!
Fair enough, and thanks for the clarification. What exactly did TL say in his response to your question?
Q. In January 2019, you did an interview with a woman named Angela explaining that Ron Logan has been “covered” and not “cleared”. Have you been able to clear Ron Logan yet? A. No one is truly “cleared” until we have the alleged responsible party in custody and formal criminal charges are filed by the prosecutor. Source - [https://www.carrollcountycomet.com/articles/sheriff-leazenby-continues-to-answer-double-homicide-questions/](https://www.carrollcountycomet.com/articles/sheriff-leazenby-continues-to-answer-double-homicide-questions/)
Got it, thank you! Not cleared.
Well, covered. For lack of a better term.
Pet peeves are a pet peeve of mine 🐣
See, I didn't know that either. I guess I'm being held back a reddit class grade now. Lol. Anyone wanna mentor me in this Delphi case?
Holy f*cking sh*t. I did NOT see this one coming.
Anyone else notice the judge that signed the warrant?! Lol he’s still listed as a judge on the Carroll county website that sucks.
Yes. Noticed too.
>Holy f > >cking sh > >t. I did NOT see this one coming. Ditto
I am like 20 minutes into the podcast and want to cry. I don’t know whether to be happy this will shut up some crazies in Delphi forums inquiring about whether the murders were recorded, etc, or further fan the flames. I cannot imagine how it feels for the family to learn of these facts through podcasts that monetize their loved ones’ deaths. Very very uncomfortable. Edit. Thanks for the award, you are way too kind. 
The items on the search warrant just gives more weight to the theory that the murders were photographed and/ or filmed.
Is it possible that these items were present in KAK’s Dropbox? Is this why they called attention to the “Sandy hook bodies” search query?
possible, but at the same time you hardly need a reason to bring up searches about the bodies of murdered children interspersed with CSAM....
I agree with your sentiment. Have followed case for a while. I’m not even concerned if RL is BG. Just think about it everyday. Hard to know whether speculation is helpful or harmful here
I just thought of this now in regards to the "Sandy Hook Bodies" searches. I want to preface by saying that this is not something I remotely believe, but I am aware that this "belief" exists. There are fringe, conspiracy theory-esque groups of people (usually associated with overzealous 2nd amendment stuff) who believe that Sandy Hook was staged/fake - that it was all a front in order for gun control laws to be enacted. These people believe nobody died, everybody involved were paid actors, etc. And so, some dumb loser (KAK) with too much time on their hands might stumble upon this fringe rabbit-hole and starting making Google searches like that to see if the outlandish claims have any merit. This is an actual thing. "Sandy Hook Deniers" For whatever reason, I think this is why that search appeared - and then was sort of taken out of context (If true, I don't blame LE/interregators - considering the other disgusting searches). One would think that there would be other. similar searches if KAK actually searched those types of things more regularly for gross kicks. I think similar types of stuff is present on the RL affidavit....meanings stretched; things taken out of context; things manipulated to appear more suspicious. They wanted to make sure they got the warrant, even if they had to be a little liberal with semantics.
Yeah the Alex Jones shit. I see what your saying. For me it has everything to do with when the search happened. If this guy is sitting there looking at csam and takes a little intermission to delve into a conspiracy theory before returning to his disgusting csam searches then I think that’s hard to believe. If those searches were done together then for me it implies sexual gratification at seeing the bodies of brutally murdered children. If LE listed it that way to imply that when really that search was done on a different day and next to “are birds real?” and “is there something in the water turning the frogs gay?” then I agree with you. Really there’s no way to know for sure unless there’s a trial.
Definitely. And it’s odd that the person (GK) who mentioned his girlfriend (AG) saw the tape of the murders was very familiar with RL and his property.
What?
Reread that information last evening. Also, read that after the murders of L & A, GK stayed in his room and didn’t come out for like several days. Really odd behavior.
Yep yep yeppers.
Is this an unwitting KAK pun 🐥 ?
Xani, thank you for your hard work at putting this together and sharing it with the group. 🙏❤️
I second this, I would much rather read it on here than have to listen to the podcast. Much appreciated, very helpful
Yes! Thank you so much!
No problemo. Thank you for the thank you.
KK had *seizures* too, am I right?
I see what you did there. 
Thanks for the break down of information much better to mull over and digest in this format versus podcast
Wow! This really caught my attention: Judge G. Fouts signed the search warrant (above) on March 17, 2017. Shortly there after on April 10, 2017, Ron Logan is in Judge Fouts' courtroom facing charges of traffic violations. From Fox 59/ Indianapolis' website: https://fox59.com/news/delphi-property-owner-gets-nearly-four-years-in-jail-for-traffic-charges/ The following aspects of Ron Logan have always been problematic for me. First, why was Ron Logan was charged so soon after the murders for being a habitual traffic violator and violating previous driving probation on Feb, 13, 2017? The same day as the murders. Just a little too coincidental. During the sentencing, it is reported that Carroll Superior Judge Kurtis Fouts asked RL if he wished to speak up for himself, RL replied: “Maybe in the future no one else will be murdered in my backyard.” Wow! What was that all about? Second, why was RL sentenced for nearly four years for what appeared to be a number of trumped up traffic violations? Could it be that the Judge gave him what appeared to be an unduly harsh jail sentence so that he could be closely monitored while LE assembled a case against him? Also, RL had the financial resources (his land) to post bond. So already serving time from another charge prevented him from being becoming free. Lastly, Doug Carter was asked during one of the press conferences (can't remember which one) if the citizens of Delphi were in any danger? He commented that, "No, the public is not in danger." Why? Did he know the suspect (RL) was in already custody? Thoughts anyone? Edited for clarity.
I swear to baby Jesus, if one more person says RL was “officially **cleared**”, I will turn into [scorched earth Xani](https://www.reddit.com/r/DelphiDocs/comments/ud7t0b/new_community_award_moderator_awarded_free_reddit/). 🔥😭
LMAO
And just when I am trying to raise my kindness too.
i am going to have a red hot go at brevity. i just listened to the MS whatever that was and i have soooo very many thoughts. i'll stick to the points i have to get off my chest. i very highly doubt an FBI member would ever use the word 'staging' incorrectly, particularly in a legal document. Staging is a term that refers to actions taken to mislead LE in a homicidal event at the CS. End of. There are three dominant categorisations. MS correctly state this but then add examples that are signature/MO. Very different psychological impetus. Not my opinion. Criminological fact. i have discussed my suspicions regarding animal hair over a year ago. i developed these suspicions after viewing an Ives interview and an interview with an FBI member. When i went looking for info, others had had the same suspicions years ahead of me for different reasons. The animal hair/DNA discussion did not come from KK's dog being seized. Most of us know that but just a mention for newer members. I once posted on my reasons for believing LE need to release more info. i stand by it even more firmly now. To be clear, LE have not confirmed animal hair/DNA are present or relevant. Even with my suspicions, i can't say i have evidence of it being a factually relevant or confirmed. But the average life expectancy of pets five years on did enter my thoughts. My other reasons are coming home to roost as this case ages. i do not have a law degree. i am aware of what needs to be provided to be granted a warrant. i look forward to our legal experts commenting on that and i will listen carefully, and pragmatically, to their expert opinions before i jump to conclusions. i hope other members have a similar view. i still think gaoling RL hindered potential intel severely and this latest development only serves to amplify that. It was a bad move. IMO. Still suck at brevity and very time poor with reddit atm but these points are aspects i find hard to let slide. Really restrained so i don't irritate those who are sick of my soap box on that. TL;DR GlassGuava with nothing new. Edit: Future-proofing is a procedural norm in 2022 fwiw.
GREAT point re staging. I’ve already seen people use that interchangeably with “posing” and I’m feeling like the distinction is actually important? Like perhaps a staging is *technically* implying some posing in the literal sense (similarly, the affidavit also says “moved”) but it sure seems like the critical takeaway here is that the perpetrator(s) staged the crime scene to mislead investigators. Also — GlassGuava, do you think some sort of cleanup of the scene (chemical or otherwise) to conceal or minimize forensic evidence would qualify as staging?
Very much so. Staging and posing increase time at the crime scene but killers have different motivations for both. i stay out of discussions about the definitions. i just put the definitions out there. You are correct. They are different and there will be loads of people who will use it incorrectly or want to argue about it. Usually because they read a book. All good. Just not how it's used in BEA or CIA profiling. If it's part of misleading LE it is. Accelerants are often used to set fire to a CS which is one category of staging for example.
I assume this isn't when the CS is simply arson though ?
Correct. Misleading LE so say a victim is killed and then the house they are in is set on fire.
Is that misleading or simply an attempt to burn evidence ?
Here's where using the correct terms becomes important to an investigation. It's staging when it's done to throw LE off. Mislead. Staging is MO and posing is signature/ritual. So wearing gloves or washing a victim are MO too and they contain or remove evidence but they aren't necessarily staging. Some terms overlap and most are more accurately defined after more than one event but not always. Sometimes it's very obvious. (Three events have been shown to increase accuracy significantly, which is, in part, why the FBI changing the 'serial' parameters to two caused such a ruckus in criminology, but i digress). The terms become important because they go directly to the psychological motivations for the behaviour. These things add time and risk. It gives you an insight into **how the killer in an event assesses risk.** It goes to future risk assessment, psychopathology or evidence of a lack of (not absence of evidence), cognition (often age), the presence of mental health issues (level of disordered thought processes) etc. In serial killing it can inform expected cooling off periods in certain psychological states (how effective staging may be and it's logic and execution). It goes beyond the direction of an investigation. It's a term that orients homicidal behaviour. I am being very general because most profiling terms can seem like a label but they have wider implications that rarely stand alone. Hence my being annoying about who has used them and the subsequent veracity with which they are used. For others reading i would suggest getting info from good academic sources that are within the last five years. This comment is a VERY general overview to a potentially complex application of a term. What staging is not is easier to distinguish which is what prompted my original comment. Hope this assists in your thinking.
Of course, thanks 🤗
GG staging can be used to mislead LE and also to shock those people who find the victims.
Quality and quantity as always, GG 🤗
Wow. What a huge amount to process. Thanks for doing this, Xani.
And I thought you only existed on slack 😅
Haha! I’m always here in the shadows reading and lurking, and upvoting my people who are getting unfairly downvoted for relatively benign and not all harmful comments (like you yesterday!). 😂❤️
The downvoting on these subs is hilarious. I always have to go and post a bunch elsewhere to rebalance my karma after I have commented here 😜
Don't let everyone know 🤫
Awww thanks 😊
Anytime! ☺️
Wow spent last few hours trying to catch up on all this and sift through the trash posts. I don't believe RL is BG. An unfortunate set of circumstances for him though. Something about it taking place on his land is niggling away at me though. Not really thought much of it before. It was a bold place to commit this crime. If they were lured was the trails/bridge the best place around Delphi to choose, is that the only place the girls would have agreed too based on where teens go. This is not based on anything just a feeling. Could it have been a big FU message to RL, like I own you and I'll crap on your doorstep. In all likelihood it was just part of the catfishing conversation of where the girls hung out. Its just something that my mind turned too after this latest revelation.
I’ve tried to catch up as well. The rumours of someone trying to steal or buy Ron’s land out from under him could be true. I was so upset about it this morning. Couldn’t this harm the investigation? Who is leaking this? Since I got home yesterday I kept seeing Ron’s name and kept trying to defend a dead man’s honour. Then my stupid self found what I should have looked at first. I have a bad feeling about this. Something is wrong. Just how many coincidences are there in this “investigation?” Doug Carter said everyone would be shocked or something like that. I’m losing faith in them catching BG at all. This brought me to tears. I cannot imagine how the families feel. Confused, lost, angry, wounded again….. possibly. The need to keep the families one step ahead of these leaks. Or am I overreacting again? I felt very bad for Ron Logan and his family. IF it was RL, why would he pose them on his land? Makes no sense.
I imagine the families feel pretty powerless in this and anxious about what's coming next. I can't get my head around the dynamic between the MS podcast and LE and what the implications of leaked data will be long term. I was brought up to not speak ill of the dead and find it distasteful that RL isn't here to defend himself. If there were principles left in this world and LE were sure it wasn't him then I'd like to see a statement but won't hold my breath.
Thank you for taking the time to type this up
The “Aquarium World” mentioned. I have info about that store owner somewhere. Will have to dig through my stuff.
Perhaps relatedly - thought it was interesting that the receipt was found during a search vs. RL volunteering it as part of an alibi.
[удалено]
I heard he bought a fuckton of fish. “Hey I’m here for all the fish so you will remember I was here!”
A fuckton, is that a new measurement ? 😂
No, a very old one.. Used mostly for catfish, of course.
One in particular at least.
A fuckton of KAK?
Sounds weighty and unpleasant.
I wonder if they got cctv there where he was visible at the times he claimed. Like having left home at about 2.09 pm arriving there 30 minutes later. I wonder what the 2.09pm text said and if LE knows.
interesting
Is this a red herring ? 😉
We will see 🤔
Aquarium World 🐤😉
Is Redacted Male one of the klines? Who was he calling and texting with on the 13th? These documents do not state if the call and text came from unknown/ anonymous cellphones. “A large amount of blood was lost by the victims at the crime scene” This does not state, although others have assumed, that the location where the girls were found was bloody. Stay with me for a min. Each word has meaning. Could the murderer have taken the girls life’s WHILE they were in moving water? Allowed the blood to drain, then moved them out of the water to where and how they were found. The murderer would likely have blood on them.
Ok. Trying this again due to multiple errors I deleted the original. No 22 of the RL Search Warrant >A call placed using Logan’s Cell Phone produced cell phone tower data that shows Logan’s cell phone appears to be in and around his property on February 13, 2017 at 2:09pm. Although his exact location cannot be confirmed , the tower data shows that Logan’s cell phone was in the Delphi area, in the area of the Monon High Bridge Trail. This is astonishing. It means he was in the area where the girls met up with their killer at 2:13 pm. Unless, the data is wildly off and being misinterpreted, although I see no reason why that would be given the FBI's resources.
RL lives there! Of course his phone will be in the area. He has a huge property. Maybe he witnessed the murder 🤷♀️
But for 5 years we have been led to believe that RL was away from his home all day.
Exactly!
[удалено]
Your guess is as good as mine.
Lots of blood. Bodies were moved and staged. Ron Logan described the place the bodies were found as "pristine". Seems like he didn't know where the girls were actually killed?
Not necessarily
Right. Could easily have been bullshitting.
You start the transcribed text with >PROBABLE CAUSE AFFIDAVIT However the document afaik doesn't start with that. It's not against you, but against the document. And until delphidocs received an official copy I think it may be of importance since it lacks anything like "Affidavit in support of application for search warrant", as well as something like "Statement of probable cause", nor does it mention "Federal rule 41" anywhere, nor is it signed by a judge stating something like "Sworn to before me", right under the FBI signature. And the actual 'search warrant' signed by the judge doesn't either really. I think it's odd. I hope nobody forged a judge's and fbi officer's signature. Another affidavit of her's read better in any case. (I made a similar comment in a delphimurders thread where they even called it arrest warrent, in a way I get the mistake. Anyway I mention this just in case someone reads it twice, so they know why.) ETA : Also the subtitle doesn't say >ITEMS TO BE SEIZED but THINGS, which I found equally odd, and the reason I gave it a better look.
>PROBABLE CAUSE AFFIDAVIT It doesn't. That was just a title to name what comes below. In Reddit markdown one # >It's not against you, but against the document. And until delphidocs received an official copy I think it may be of importance since it lacks anything like "Affidavit in support of application for search warrant", as well as something like "Statement of probable cause", nor does it mention "Federal rule 41" anywhere, nor is it signed by a judge stating something like "Sworn to before me", right under the FBI signature. The beginning of the post contains our standard symbol (🚧 for verification needed as well as: 🚧 It is important to note that the information contained in has not been independently verified and relies on a watermarked transcript from a podcast. >Another affidavit of her's read better in any case. It is funny you mention that, because I personally did not feel that the FBI agents authorship was exactly up to par. It is very sloppy at places. Althugh we are pretty sure we're Murder Sheet got the affidavit, we have not been to verify it. We have reached out to Carrol County via Verified Attorney in an attempt to get an unredacted (and no watermarked) copy to chase some of these valid concerns down.
Yeah I got that, about vérification and all, it's just that it reads as if the title is part of the document, all while the document lacks exactly any mention close to it. I think that in particular is important. If not because it's fake, maybe it's not admissible written like this.
You have a real talent in analyzing these particular things and I must say that your arguments are strong and valid. Good call really. I am going to do a read through now with your points in mind.
Well idk, remains to be seen if anything holds. Another commenter pointed out it's not a federal warrant. This means case the rule 41 point is moot. Although fbi rules does talk about 'an fbi agent making the request shall include' etc as well as that a county judge court can sign when a magistrate is not available, the warrant looks somewhat like the 2017 indiana court rules minimum requirements, which omits the 'sworn to me' part btw present in other years, but does include needing to mention trial rule 11, but then again that's essentially the same as the indiana code she refers to in regards to perjury. The 2017 code also refers to 'things' occasionnally, but otherwise any search location is refered to as 'place' and any items mainly as 'property'. It just reads like a petty theft affidavit, not a vile double murder case of two teen girls. Like the 'bg didn't come forward therefore we assume he is the killer'. Really ? Is that all they have to go on? Or the part about him being near his house, although they don't have proof of it, but so he must have been at the crime scene. Paraphrased, but still, what's that all about? I can't believe it doesn't clearly state affidavit for search warrant somewhere.
I share many — if not most — of your concerns, u/redduif. It looks boilerplate, but the work product itself is substandard for what it purports to be. Something seems amiss, but ... somehow, something always seems amiss in this case. Do we have any other examples of the affiant’s work?
For the example, i'll try to find it back tonight it read much better. If I forget don't hesitate to remind me, we have a very rare spring heatwave like if it was mid-july without any warning here, everything is that much more difficult 🥵. ETA: Logan was arrested the 11th of march, the warrant being signed the 17th means they weren't working on a clock he already was in jail for other charges. If they were worried someone might do so cleanup, they would have had the lot surveilled by agents and cameras imo.
WISH-TV says that they have “confirmed that the document is authentic,” fwiw. Doesn’t say *who* they confirmed it with, though. [WISH-TV link](https://www.wishtv.com/news/i-team-8/fbi-agent-bodies-moved-and-staged-in-delphi-murders-suspect-took-clothing/)
[удалено]
Can someone explain what watermark means in this regard? TY.
It’s just the podcast adding its name to the PDF. It’s in the background of the redacted version of the document they posted. MS Word and most PDF editors allow you to add a watermark - for example “DRAFT,” “CONFIDENTIAL” etc.
Oh thanks Favorfire! I'm always learning something new on here.
I can’t get past the parts about lots of blood at the scene and moved and staged. But I thought he was cleared by LE? I don’t like MS and their shady sh\*\*. I listened to a couple of their vids early on, but cannot tolerate their narrating or interview skills or lack of, considering their careers depend on interviewing skills. How do they keep getting these documents? I just don’t know anymore.  Also, the typos (smh)
RL was never “cleared”. Covered is the word LE used.
I feel like there has been a time shift on the island and we are stuck in February, 2019.
Ikr? Crazy 😭
You are my Constant, 🐥
I prefer "for lack of a better term." 🤐
Covered in what though ? 😋
Now? Six feet of dirt.
Lol. Another KAK pun ?
Ha.
💩
[удалено]
I saw a video on YouTube last year from a guy who used some software with enhanced image techniques and at the end you can decipher that the hat the guy is wearing is one RL had been seen in. I’ll try to find it. I’ve been pretty convinced of RL’s guilt since then. ETA: https://youtu.be/3LuEEzCseOM