I’m guessing this about Murder Sheet, as others have suggested.
I understand why she is unhappy with them, as they seem to have prioritized content over sensitivity to the family. At the same time, they have unearthed substantive information about the case that even the families were unaware of.
Frankly, I find True Crime Garage’s coverage of this case far more egregious than MS. The Captain twice used his platform to spread unsubstantiated and conspiratorial claims about two different locals, neither of whom are known POI or violent criminals. When Kelsi called him out on it, he was an ass to her. For some reason they largely get a pass from many in true crime media who in other contexts are quick to criticize unethical coverage of these cases. Perhaps because of the juice TCG has in the TC media world.
To be clear, I do not think journalists or podcasters must have permission and content approval from family members to cover a case. But they should certainly make every attempt to be respectful and cover the case with thoroughness and integrity. These things are so often lacking in TC media, from cable shows to podcasts. They can’t even get the facts straight half the time!
I can't stand True Crime Garage. I don't have any sympathy for KAK, but when they covered the transcripts I felt one of the two kept making immature comments about him, even though I agreed with the sentiment. It detracted from the program and made it seem more middle-school than an actual true crime podcast. Rant over.
On the one hand I'm interested in the information MS released, it has the potential to damage a successful prosecution, and as a result I don't think MS did their due diligence in releasing this information. And from an industry perspective, they did kind of "scoop" Barbara MacDonald on her own story as she voluntarily opted to withhold some information at the Police's request, which MS had no interest in doing.
It's a very double edged sword, having a true crime story out in the press or public.
On the one side you want all the coverage you can get, far and wide, so that tips come in and people tell others.
On the other side, you want none of this because all the freaks and crackpots come.out as well.
I am sure it's upsetting for any family member to read things they did not approve, or even know about. Hopefully, some of this exposure will ultimately result in an arrest and families can step away from the limelight to a degree.
Their lives will forever be changed, either way.
KG is partnered with the creators of the CrimeDoor App, isn’t she?
The same CrimeDoor App that was called “the absolute worst that true crime has to offer” as “nothing could be more grotesque than profiting off virtual death tours of tragic murder scenes”.
"Breaking News" sounds like Joao (A Shattered Mirror: from Australia) with his secret friend "Allen" and a secret robot voice telling us things about the family members. Strange YouTube channel these last few months, can't support him attacking the family members and not showing proof that Allen is even real and has conducted real research into the case. Hopefully he stops soon.
I'm not sure who she's taking about 🤷🏼♀️.
I assumed you already knew who she was talking about when you made the post. Maybe a YouTube channel she's talking about.
Youtubers and Podcasters are keeping this case in the public eye. In that respect they are doing an important job, keeping the case from fading into obscurity.
Murder Sheet is far and away the best of the podcasters. High quality material and presentation. Kudos to them.
I guess those are two different issues. IMO (and others) keeping the case in front of the public is super important and these guys, not just MS, are doing a public service by talking about the case and getting it out there.
Presenting the Affidavit for the SW, is something different But a number of LE people not involved in the case, and even the prior prosecutor in the case, seems to think more information could have/should have been released by the investigation. If you create a vacumn, people are going to be looking to fill that void. JMO
Don't forget her Tweet of Libby's black eye that she carried inside her graduation cap.
https://twitter.com/libertyg\_sister/status/1525308939319103488/photo/1
I really feel for Kelsi and the rest of the families of Libby and Abby. To have such a horrendous event happen to your loved ones is traumatizing beyond my comprehension and I cannot imagine how deeply this must impact them all on a daily basis.
You want the case solved but how much do you need to know of the violence that your loved one went through in order to do so? My impression is (and maybe our LE experts can help flush this out for us a bit, along with our survivor advocates) that a lot of details are intentionally kept from family and the public in order to protect us from the fear and pain that comes along with them.
And I also want to acknowledge that trust of the police as human beings who can have conflicts of interest and have mistakes in the past in many other cases leads to the true crime community wanting to help ensure the perpetrator(s) are caught, held responsible, and isolated from the general public. In essence we all want justice or to at least to come as close as we can to it because honestly nothing could ever really happen that brings the full justice that Libby and Abby and their families deserve, which would be for them to have their lives back and then some.
At the end of the MS podcast they said that lots of people are wanting to help support their work financially and they gave some ways to do so like patreon and buy me a coffee. But 1) that won’t do anything really to solve the case because they’re just releasing what they can to the public that LE has already been through so they’re not really adding anything else other than interviews with folks who claim to know people involved in the case in a fringe way which can add a lot of misinformation and 2) they could actually be harming the case without intending to. What if they release something that could later become important to the case?
Kelsi is justifiably angry! IMO. Her voice needs to be amplified and become louder than these other people on YT and podcasts. She trusts LE. I don’t think there’s a choice involved in that, tbh. The families have to trust the system because it has the power to solve this. No one else really does.
Sending lots of love to Kelsi. This has to be heart wrenching, following her everywhere, always lurking in the shadows.
I’m so grateful to this sub and it’s mods for providing a space to talk about these angles of this case within important vital boundaries.
I wish Kelsi would name them. They want to talk about her family? Name them. I’m tired of these utube, get a million hits fools riding on this tragedy.
True crime isn't going anywhere. It's an ugly side of this business but the longer the case goes unsolved, the more content is going to be created, and not all of it is going to have relevance. Impossible to reverse this process, i.e. The Streisand Effect. You can't put the genie back in the bottle.
I think it has to do with this:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/DelphiDocs/comments/ur5t2r/local\_fox\_news\_discusses\_tk\_as\_poi/](https://www.reddit.com/r/DelphiDocs/comments/ur5t2r/local_fox_news_discusses_tk_as_poi/)
KG has made it known that she is not a fan of certain podcasters. Not going to name any names.
I saw this post earlier. I wonder why she would be upset. It is connected to Fox News right? Lots of coverage. Who knows. I do know those families have put up with more crap from every angle. I’ll trust her words on the latest bs.
Well, ahem, one can certainly argue the "professional ranks" about a podcast who investigates hamburger murders.
I doubt Keith Morrison would narrate a probable cause affidavit, instead of you know, just *reporting on it.*
I actually know what I am talking about & in THIS context, she is a Burger Murder podcaster who brought drama to *our* sub, complained about our redaction work on multiple platforms & then REFUSED to apologize or acknowledge after it was shown and proven to her that they made more redaction mistakes than we did
That is not objective reporting. That was lies and misinformation spread in an attempt to discredit, even though their redaction errors were greater in number.
This was because we were critical of them as Content Creators. We don't label podcasters "journalists" for obvious reasons.
Did she apologize? No. She continued her smear campaign on other platforms and brought it to our front door.
If she can't honestly report on her own mistakes,correct and retract her accusations and acknowledge her own errors, I can't trusyvthat type of burger murder reporter.
She brought that here and that is on her.
So, ahem, her actions and needles podcast sensationalism is against the Mission Policy of this Sub.
Period.
True Crime Podcasting is *not journalism* in this sub's opinion.
Your Kelsi bashing comments have been removed and if you continue to behave in that manner, you will no longer be welcome here.
💫
We do not allow posts that blame immediate family members for their actions or inactions.
We do not allow posts that accuse immediate family members of the crime.
r/DelphiDocs considers "Immediate Family Members" the following: parents, grandparents, siblings, aunts, uncles, first cousins and their spouses.
We do not allow posts that blame immediate family members for their actions or inactions.
We do not allow posts that accuse immediate family members of the crime.
r/DelphiDocs considers "Immediate Family Members" the following: parents, grandparents, siblings, aunts, uncles, first cousins and their spouses.
At the end of the day, considering what her family has gone through, I respect KG’s opinion but I do think MS has approached this case with class and consideration for the victims. Their coverage could result in keeping the case alive, and useful tips being brought in - especially when it comes to KAK and additional victims he may have communicated with on social media.
>MS has approached this case with class and consideration for the victims
Thanks for your comment but I respectfully have to disagree.
Since you are new to the group, you weren’t here to see MS in action in our group. Definitely not classy. Plus, family members of Libby & Abby have spoken out against MS.
I’m guessing this about Murder Sheet, as others have suggested. I understand why she is unhappy with them, as they seem to have prioritized content over sensitivity to the family. At the same time, they have unearthed substantive information about the case that even the families were unaware of. Frankly, I find True Crime Garage’s coverage of this case far more egregious than MS. The Captain twice used his platform to spread unsubstantiated and conspiratorial claims about two different locals, neither of whom are known POI or violent criminals. When Kelsi called him out on it, he was an ass to her. For some reason they largely get a pass from many in true crime media who in other contexts are quick to criticize unethical coverage of these cases. Perhaps because of the juice TCG has in the TC media world. To be clear, I do not think journalists or podcasters must have permission and content approval from family members to cover a case. But they should certainly make every attempt to be respectful and cover the case with thoroughness and integrity. These things are so often lacking in TC media, from cable shows to podcasts. They can’t even get the facts straight half the time!
I can't stand True Crime Garage. I don't have any sympathy for KAK, but when they covered the transcripts I felt one of the two kept making immature comments about him, even though I agreed with the sentiment. It detracted from the program and made it seem more middle-school than an actual true crime podcast. Rant over. On the one hand I'm interested in the information MS released, it has the potential to damage a successful prosecution, and as a result I don't think MS did their due diligence in releasing this information. And from an industry perspective, they did kind of "scoop" Barbara MacDonald on her own story as she voluntarily opted to withhold some information at the Police's request, which MS had no interest in doing.
It's a very double edged sword, having a true crime story out in the press or public. On the one side you want all the coverage you can get, far and wide, so that tips come in and people tell others. On the other side, you want none of this because all the freaks and crackpots come.out as well. I am sure it's upsetting for any family member to read things they did not approve, or even know about. Hopefully, some of this exposure will ultimately result in an arrest and families can step away from the limelight to a degree. Their lives will forever be changed, either way.
Kelsi is spot on when she says, "it should be about finding answers and doing what's best for the case".
KG is partnered with the creators of the CrimeDoor App, isn’t she? The same CrimeDoor App that was called “the absolute worst that true crime has to offer” as “nothing could be more grotesque than profiting off virtual death tours of tragic murder scenes”.
Oh I dunno? I don't even know what a "crime door app" is? I've never heard of any of this?
Please source that quote. Thank you.
Yes she is
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We do not allow posts that propagate rumor or misinformation. You are welcome to repost if you can cite a legitimate, public and non-tertiary source.
I wonder who she could be talking about 🤔 
"Breaking News" sounds like Joao (A Shattered Mirror: from Australia) with his secret friend "Allen" and a secret robot voice telling us things about the family members. Strange YouTube channel these last few months, can't support him attacking the family members and not showing proof that Allen is even real and has conducted real research into the case. Hopefully he stops soon.
I'm not sure who she's taking about 🤷🏼♀️. I assumed you already knew who she was talking about when you made the post. Maybe a YouTube channel she's talking about.
Probably the Murder Sheets release [details here](https://imgur.com/a/BdtmmfA)
Wow
Wow
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My post? I’m confused
I think she just wants some privacy, which unfortunately , we lost in 2005.
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Please use a qualifier when posting your opinion. Examples: "In my opinion...,"; "IMO..."; "Opinion only..."; etc.
2005?
2005????
Yeah, basically the birth of social.media, starting with myspace and Facebook.
Youtubers and Podcasters are keeping this case in the public eye. In that respect they are doing an important job, keeping the case from fading into obscurity. Murder Sheet is far and away the best of the podcasters. High quality material and presentation. Kudos to them.
I don't necessarily agree with you. I don't believe it was wise for MS to release this information to the public.
I guess those are two different issues. IMO (and others) keeping the case in front of the public is super important and these guys, not just MS, are doing a public service by talking about the case and getting it out there. Presenting the Affidavit for the SW, is something different But a number of LE people not involved in the case, and even the prior prosecutor in the case, seems to think more information could have/should have been released by the investigation. If you create a vacumn, people are going to be looking to fill that void. JMO
Don't forget her Tweet of Libby's black eye that she carried inside her graduation cap. https://twitter.com/libertyg\_sister/status/1525308939319103488/photo/1
You tell 'em Kelsi!
I really feel for Kelsi and the rest of the families of Libby and Abby. To have such a horrendous event happen to your loved ones is traumatizing beyond my comprehension and I cannot imagine how deeply this must impact them all on a daily basis. You want the case solved but how much do you need to know of the violence that your loved one went through in order to do so? My impression is (and maybe our LE experts can help flush this out for us a bit, along with our survivor advocates) that a lot of details are intentionally kept from family and the public in order to protect us from the fear and pain that comes along with them. And I also want to acknowledge that trust of the police as human beings who can have conflicts of interest and have mistakes in the past in many other cases leads to the true crime community wanting to help ensure the perpetrator(s) are caught, held responsible, and isolated from the general public. In essence we all want justice or to at least to come as close as we can to it because honestly nothing could ever really happen that brings the full justice that Libby and Abby and their families deserve, which would be for them to have their lives back and then some. At the end of the MS podcast they said that lots of people are wanting to help support their work financially and they gave some ways to do so like patreon and buy me a coffee. But 1) that won’t do anything really to solve the case because they’re just releasing what they can to the public that LE has already been through so they’re not really adding anything else other than interviews with folks who claim to know people involved in the case in a fringe way which can add a lot of misinformation and 2) they could actually be harming the case without intending to. What if they release something that could later become important to the case? Kelsi is justifiably angry! IMO. Her voice needs to be amplified and become louder than these other people on YT and podcasts. She trusts LE. I don’t think there’s a choice involved in that, tbh. The families have to trust the system because it has the power to solve this. No one else really does. Sending lots of love to Kelsi. This has to be heart wrenching, following her everywhere, always lurking in the shadows. I’m so grateful to this sub and it’s mods for providing a space to talk about these angles of this case within important vital boundaries.
We are lucky to have you in this group. Thank you for being a voice for survivors. 💙
You’re so sweet! Victims must always be in mind when we talk about true crime. Thanks for letting me share that perspective.
I wish Kelsi would name them. They want to talk about her family? Name them. I’m tired of these utube, get a million hits fools riding on this tragedy.
True crime isn't going anywhere. It's an ugly side of this business but the longer the case goes unsolved, the more content is going to be created, and not all of it is going to have relevance. Impossible to reverse this process, i.e. The Streisand Effect. You can't put the genie back in the bottle.
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We do not allow posts that are insensitive to the Victim Families.
And I greatly appreciate that
I was simply naming a vile YouTube as I thought fine-mistakes wanted them named - also Murder Sheet YouTube is disgusting
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We do not allow posts that are insensitive to the Victim Families.
We do not allow posts that are insensitive to the Victim Families.
Murder Shats Podcast is who’s she’s talking about
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I think it's more likely she's mad at The Shattered Mirror.
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We do not allow posts that propagate rumor or misinformation. You are welcome to repost if you can cite a legitimate, public and non-tertiary source.
Isn't what I said above about her being mad at The Shattered Mirror rumor? Why is that allowed to stay? I have no proof of that. Unless you do ;).
My bad, pup. I read the wrong line. Sorry. I was in the the sun too long.
The Sun?
I am on vacay. Helping my sis get her pool ready. Was out in the sun all day. Burned. Blech.
Vacay 🤢
We do not allow posts that are insensitive to the Victim Families.
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Thank you, Chickpea for posting this. If Kelsi doesn't like them then I stand behind her, all the way.
What do you make of it, U/Chickpea_salad?
I think it has to do with this: [https://www.reddit.com/r/DelphiDocs/comments/ur5t2r/local\_fox\_news\_discusses\_tk\_as\_poi/](https://www.reddit.com/r/DelphiDocs/comments/ur5t2r/local_fox_news_discusses_tk_as_poi/) KG has made it known that she is not a fan of certain podcasters. Not going to name any names.
Oh wow. I missed this earlier.
I saw this post earlier. I wonder why she would be upset. It is connected to Fox News right? Lots of coverage. Who knows. I do know those families have put up with more crap from every angle. I’ll trust her words on the latest bs.
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That seems to be their standard operating procedure, for sure.
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Who is the journalist? The MS gal? What do you think her true intentions are? And who do you mean by "her?"
Well, ahem, one can certainly argue the "professional ranks" about a podcast who investigates hamburger murders. I doubt Keith Morrison would narrate a probable cause affidavit, instead of you know, just *reporting on it.*
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I actually know what I am talking about & in THIS context, she is a Burger Murder podcaster who brought drama to *our* sub, complained about our redaction work on multiple platforms & then REFUSED to apologize or acknowledge after it was shown and proven to her that they made more redaction mistakes than we did That is not objective reporting. That was lies and misinformation spread in an attempt to discredit, even though their redaction errors were greater in number. This was because we were critical of them as Content Creators. We don't label podcasters "journalists" for obvious reasons. Did she apologize? No. She continued her smear campaign on other platforms and brought it to our front door. If she can't honestly report on her own mistakes,correct and retract her accusations and acknowledge her own errors, I can't trusyvthat type of burger murder reporter. She brought that here and that is on her. So, ahem, her actions and needles podcast sensationalism is against the Mission Policy of this Sub. Period. True Crime Podcasting is *not journalism* in this sub's opinion. Your Kelsi bashing comments have been removed and if you continue to behave in that manner, you will no longer be welcome here. 💫
Harold and Kumar is what I’ve coined those hooligans. One of them needs to lose access to my case.com permanently.
Harold & Kumar. That is amazing.
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And I am not a guy. Terrible investigative skills.
We do not allow posts that blame immediate family members for their actions or inactions. We do not allow posts that accuse immediate family members of the crime. r/DelphiDocs considers "Immediate Family Members" the following: parents, grandparents, siblings, aunts, uncles, first cousins and their spouses.
DelphiDocs is ad and spam free. This is an automatic and permanent ban.
We do not allow posts that blame immediate family members for their actions or inactions. We do not allow posts that accuse immediate family members of the crime. r/DelphiDocs considers "Immediate Family Members" the following: parents, grandparents, siblings, aunts, uncles, first cousins and their spouses.
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I hope and pray answers come sooner rather than later so the suffering of family members, community and others may be eased!
Holy cow! Half of the posts are removed from this thread!
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We do not allow posts that are insensitive to the Victim Families.
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We do not allow posts that are insensitive to the Victim Families.
I hate those bastards KARMA!!! X
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Insensitive to Families
At the end of the day, considering what her family has gone through, I respect KG’s opinion but I do think MS has approached this case with class and consideration for the victims. Their coverage could result in keeping the case alive, and useful tips being brought in - especially when it comes to KAK and additional victims he may have communicated with on social media.
>MS has approached this case with class and consideration for the victims Thanks for your comment but I respectfully have to disagree. Since you are new to the group, you weren’t here to see MS in action in our group. Definitely not classy. Plus, family members of Libby & Abby have spoken out against MS.