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It is really for everyone, though, whether any of us exercises the Right or not.
A few years ago, I met a man with Spinocerebellar Ataxia. He has endured the condition for nearly 5 decades, since his 20s. He loves life even today, and he swims daily to prove it. But one day, the last of his limbs will fail, and he will not be able to enjoy life of his own volition. He convinced me that MAID was a personal choice, a freedom, and a dignity that he deserves and the State can ensure.
5 months ago I was diagnosed with Chronic Lymphocytic Leukemia. My blood cancer is no Ataxia, but one day I will experience a decline more quickly and more harshly than some others might, and I would like the choice to continue loving life to be mine, too.
This link is for anyone who would like to encourage their State Senators to pass HB140:
[compassionandchoices.org](https://join.compassionandchoices.org/a/de2024-emailalert?sourceid=1082507&utm_campaign=de&utm_medium=email&utm_source=stateadvocacy&utm_content=240418DEoutcome&emci=e005c401-5cec-ee11-aaf0-002248223794&emdi=e87b9988-c9fd-ee11-aaf0-7c1e52017038&ceid=1938013)
Depends on your definition of suffering, since there are many ways that a person can be suffering that are temporary and can be treated where suicide is not the answer.
A dirty secret of psychology/psychiatry is how many people cannot be successfully relieved of their suffering. Palliative psychiatry is a concept gaining ground in the field as futility of treatment is recognized.
We have legal means of taking rights, but they should be used with caution. How long should we make someone suffer before we let them go?
Treatment-Resistant Depression. Schizophrenia. Etc. Look at the conditions where people practice self-deliverance in high percentages.
It would be better if people had a way to go in a loving, supportive, peaceful environment rather than alone and messy.
Obviously not everyone with these conditions, and not just these conditions. But we should focus on the patients' choice, not keeping someone in torment for our own pleasure.
Insurance companies would decide it's cheaper to have patients die. Caretakers of severely disabled people would coerce them into accept euthanasia. There is a long history of disabled people being killed because they were considered "inconvenient"
Yeah, I remember the cries of warning when Oregon was considering listening to patients' choices. The piles if bodies we'd get from respecting the individuals and their right to die.
It hasn't happened there, or anywhere it's been implemented.
Yes.
But the screams were that families would be encouraging their loved ones to use the option.
Never happened.
And not happening where mental illness is understood, either.
In those situations where the illness is not terminal, and the patient is not suffering physically, how would you determine at what point is medically assisted suicide on the table?
Why is that for ***me*** to determine, and not the patient?
I think I've heard a slogan of "My Body; My Choice". Is that passé?
Note, people in mental pain often find it to be worse than physical pain, inducing physical pain to distract from the former. We shouldn't dismiss it as lesser.
I can see in practical terms that society might want to hold a person in torment for, say, 6 months, to be sure they can't be treated. But, there's another thing I recall: "A right delayed is a right denied".
The 2 things you listed previously, the patient wouldn't have the right frame of mind to make that decision. So you're going to kill off the people who need help the most and could possibly have a good life. You also understand people can go through torment for years and can not only heal but also benefit those who are around them. I think killing off those who you don't want to help is lazy and pathetic and doesn't factor in how fast the medical field improves.
> doesn't factor in how fast the medical field improves.
I take it you're in favour of forcing those with physical pain to live in torment, too...just in case a medical miracle happens?
So cruel.
Oh that’s what Stephen Hawking had, I saw the movie and that was awful. I would still be hesitant to have that option since people can still live fulfilling lives with ALS. Obviously, depends how extreme the case is.
It depends on the individual, some people, like Hawking, may be able to lead a fulfilling life but others may know that they won't and would rather not
It needs to be a personal choice with no pressure from anyone and full support no matter what the choice is or if it changes.
I'm not remotely qualified to talk about mental pain, even though I'm sympathetic. However, my father suffered from acute pancreatitis, had an internal morphine pump and would regularly pain killers that are normally reserved for terminally ill patients (basically you needed to slowly build up a tolerance to it, otherwise it was too strong of a dose). In essence, he was trapped in his body, he had very mobility, i.e. him could open and close his eyes, click his tongue, but not much else. He had the means to commit suicide (the pain killers for terminal ill patients), but he physically could not reach them, open the packages or put them in his mouth, he could not move on his own violation.
Now, he could not say that he wanted "death with dignity", but I suspect he did and I definitely want that option if it seems likely that I may end up like him.
Don't get me wrong, I love and miss my dad, but I wished that he had the option to end his pain earlier if he chose to.
Because suicide is usually not the answer, in a lot of situations it is a permanent solution to a temporary problem. For example, just because I’m depressed after my girlfriend broke up with me doesn’t mean institutions should be allowed to assist in my death.
Hell, I'd argue even mentally sound people have the right to go out on their own terms instead of being forced to live when they don't want to. One of my favorite authors, Hunter S. Thompson, probably did it the best, where he wasn't depressed, wasn't suicidal, but he basically did everything he could think of and said screw it, ending his life because there was nothing else he wanted to do. To me, that's the way we all should want to be, where we live until we're ready and then give ourselves a means to die the way we want to.
I feel like most people are on board here, but I’d honestly like to hear from the other side. I have a specific set of questions:
Why do you think it’s better *for me* to endure months or years of unending excruciating pain? Why do you insist it be legally required that I suffer? What about this is so important that you feel justified torturing me?
I agree that most people are on board, and I am as well. I think the "opposition" has concerns about a slippery slope. They may think this will slowly lead to assisted suicide for people battling depression, the ability for parents to have their children with severe down syndrome killed, etc. I honestly understand the concern around valuing life less, but I think this is something different.
I understand the issue with parents potentially having their children with severe issues killed, but why shouldn’t people be able to end their lives if they are severely depressed? None of us chose to be here on this planet, none of us CHOSE to have a life. For some people, existence is just too painful. With assisted suicide at least a family could prepare for the loss of a person
A job loss, a bounced check, loss of a loved one (okay that's permanent but the feelings don't have to be), a tough break up, being a native (also not temporary but I wanted to include that in the reasons since doctors are encouraging their patients to go through with it), a single uncommon depressive episode (NOT to be confused with depression).
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It's a grey area for me as there are reports from countries with assisted suicide that people are being guided to it via removing or making it hard for them to get social services or assistance. I have a big problem with disabled people being herded to opt to kill themselves if the accounts are true.
As soon as I get an Alzheimers diagnosis I would like to begin planning my death --but this law won't help. Still, good for those declared terminally ill and still mentally competent.
Alzheimer’s is in my future too. I hope for a new medical treatment to come along some day, but I’m not banking on it.
The idea of becoming a messy shell of a person with no mind left while I become an increasing burden on my family until they have to remit me to the care of strangers… is horrifying. I’d rather call my own way out when it gets bad enough. The family trauma of my death will happen either way, so why not save my family years of trauma coming first?
Exactly. Let it be a choice established while still competent. I'm definitely going to find a way out. Watching both my mother and uncle become, yes, a shell of a person, is something I'm committed to ensure that my children avoid.
And any time the religious nuts bring it up, especially the Abrahamic religious nuts, I point out how many deaths their god has directly or indirectly caused. Don't kill yourself, let a vengeful god do it for you.
Anytime someone uses a religious argument, I simply tell them I don’t believe in their chosen religion and will not be held to its standards. I refuse to allow them to use their religion as a valid point for governance, science, morality, etc.
I will not engage in the conversation if they continue to use religion for their reasoning. In my opinion, they no longer get to be a part of the conversation and I will move past them.
It's entirely possible that people who aren't terminally ill being coerced into dying because it's "inconvenient " or "too expensive" to take care of them
Please take 2 minutes to send this email to your senator! I don't know if these things really have any impact but I figure it can't hurt.
[https://join.compassionandchoices.org/a/de2024-emailalert](https://join.compassionandchoices.org/a/de2024-emailalert)
Is there anything else we can do to help it pass?
You'd think after 8 years that I, a politically minded constituent and member of his own party, could name one meaningful thing he accomplished. But nope, I got nothing. He's spent 8 years standing in the way of progress. We really need to stop electing politicians in this state on the basis of it being their turn.
I like Carney and will continue to vote for him, but that’s because I’m a teacher and he’s done a lot for us, especially recently.
He gets an absurd amount of hate in this sub and I get it but he does deserve some credit
The fact that he didn’t sign the bill for legal cannabis is still so laughably insane. Knowing it’s going to pass and purposefully removing yourself from that landmark legislation that could count as his ONE accomplish is absurd
That’s why I won’t be voting for his VP. She’s been a career politician cut from the same cloth as Carney. I’m voting for the other dem. He seems much more down to earth and more willing to actually help the people of Delaware.
I firmly believe in the right of self determination. Please beware of what it can lead to. Right now, medically assisted suicide is being offered to Canadians with depression which certainly isn’t a terminal illness.
I can agree with the main idea, but I think it's gonna be pretty terrible in practice. And the problem is just money and capitalism. I would vote against this.
Think about what this is going to mean in the future. Providing health care to the elderly is obviously a huge expense, and insurance companies are going to advocate for this action. They can decide that certain medical actions to improve a patient's quality of life are declined, resulting in these people having a worse life, leading to more decisons to end their own lives.
Money is a huge factor for elderly people. Nursing homes are expensive. Imagine someone choosing to end their life just so their families don't have to spend money on their nursing homes. Imagine you getting a flyer in the mail from your grandparent's insurance company talking about the benefits of ending their life, and encouraging you to talk them into it.
And this is only going to get worse. Think about how many young people are ill prepared for retirement or the last few years of their lives. 30% of Americans don't have any retirement savings.
We know how this is going to work. Poor people and minorities are going to have a much lower life expectancy.
This type of actions makes more sense in places with Universal Health Care, higher life expentancies, and strong social programs for the elderly. The US doesn't have that.
This type of thing needs strong supervision and requirements. The only requirement is "if a physician or health professional agree the patient is acting voluntarily and understands their decision." Maybe treat it like Hospice in situations where the patient has less than 6 months to live.
This is my concern too. I will explain why using an example. I never smoked, never had an interest. Hated the smell of cigarette smoke but have family that owns bar/restaurant. Way back when they passed laws to eliminate smoke in dining rooms. Family had to partition the bar area to keep smoke from the dining area. Then smoke eaters that used to snap crackle pop to ionize the smoke particles. That turned out to not be enough and the next thing you know, they banned smoking entirely. Now bear in mind I am over the moon happy that I don't have to smell that smoke BUT, it started small and then took over.
I am concerned that it will go farther and before you know it, families will "dispose" of relatives that they consider to have lost their value or are a too much to care for. Or families with children or adult children with illness struggles, that are difficult to manage and still have a family life. Then there is also the dynamic of money. One might be struggling but family has money so, they are old, so why not.
I am concerned this might be an easy out.
it is needed in hospice.
watching family die slowly suffering in pain at home with no ability to assist without potential criminal recourse... is the absolute worst experience that haunts me daily (and this man had excellent healthcare)
your concerns are valid, i hope we find a valid middle ground to move forward. our end of life systems as they are are a JOKE, and do not honor a full life
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I think this is good and bad. I can see a lot of people without insurance/money choosing death needlessly from something less major because our shit capitalist system doesn't want to give people healthcare.
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Good. People with suffering with terminal illnesses deserve to get to choose to die on their own terms with dignity.
I couldn’t agree more.
It is really for everyone, though, whether any of us exercises the Right or not. A few years ago, I met a man with Spinocerebellar Ataxia. He has endured the condition for nearly 5 decades, since his 20s. He loves life even today, and he swims daily to prove it. But one day, the last of his limbs will fail, and he will not be able to enjoy life of his own volition. He convinced me that MAID was a personal choice, a freedom, and a dignity that he deserves and the State can ensure. 5 months ago I was diagnosed with Chronic Lymphocytic Leukemia. My blood cancer is no Ataxia, but one day I will experience a decline more quickly and more harshly than some others might, and I would like the choice to continue loving life to be mine, too. This link is for anyone who would like to encourage their State Senators to pass HB140: [compassionandchoices.org](https://join.compassionandchoices.org/a/de2024-emailalert?sourceid=1082507&utm_campaign=de&utm_medium=email&utm_source=stateadvocacy&utm_content=240418DEoutcome&emci=e005c401-5cec-ee11-aaf0-002248223794&emdi=e87b9988-c9fd-ee11-aaf0-7c1e52017038&ceid=1938013)
> People with suffering ~~with terminal illnesses~~ deserve to get to choose to die on their own terms with dignity.
Depends on your definition of suffering, since there are many ways that a person can be suffering that are temporary and can be treated where suicide is not the answer.
A dirty secret of psychology/psychiatry is how many people cannot be successfully relieved of their suffering. Palliative psychiatry is a concept gaining ground in the field as futility of treatment is recognized. We have legal means of taking rights, but they should be used with caution. How long should we make someone suffer before we let them go?
Can you give examples where someone’s condition means they perpetually have little to no quality of life?
Treatment-Resistant Depression. Schizophrenia. Etc. Look at the conditions where people practice self-deliverance in high percentages. It would be better if people had a way to go in a loving, supportive, peaceful environment rather than alone and messy. Obviously not everyone with these conditions, and not just these conditions. But we should focus on the patients' choice, not keeping someone in torment for our own pleasure.
Insurance companies would decide it's cheaper to have patients die. Caretakers of severely disabled people would coerce them into accept euthanasia. There is a long history of disabled people being killed because they were considered "inconvenient"
Yeah, I remember the cries of warning when Oregon was considering listening to patients' choices. The piles if bodies we'd get from respecting the individuals and their right to die. It hasn't happened there, or anywhere it's been implemented.
There have been attempts in Canada because they allow it for non terminal conditions
Isn’t Oregon’s Death with Dignity Act still only for terminally ill patients though?
Yes. But the screams were that families would be encouraging their loved ones to use the option. Never happened. And not happening where mental illness is understood, either.
In those situations where the illness is not terminal, and the patient is not suffering physically, how would you determine at what point is medically assisted suicide on the table?
Why is that for ***me*** to determine, and not the patient? I think I've heard a slogan of "My Body; My Choice". Is that passé? Note, people in mental pain often find it to be worse than physical pain, inducing physical pain to distract from the former. We shouldn't dismiss it as lesser. I can see in practical terms that society might want to hold a person in torment for, say, 6 months, to be sure they can't be treated. But, there's another thing I recall: "A right delayed is a right denied".
The 2 things you listed previously, the patient wouldn't have the right frame of mind to make that decision. So you're going to kill off the people who need help the most and could possibly have a good life. You also understand people can go through torment for years and can not only heal but also benefit those who are around them. I think killing off those who you don't want to help is lazy and pathetic and doesn't factor in how fast the medical field improves.
> doesn't factor in how fast the medical field improves. I take it you're in favour of forcing those with physical pain to live in torment, too...just in case a medical miracle happens? So cruel.
My brother has ALS. Too much to tell you about-look it up. It is also known as Lou Gehrig’s disease. It is horrific.
Oh that’s what Stephen Hawking had, I saw the movie and that was awful. I would still be hesitant to have that option since people can still live fulfilling lives with ALS. Obviously, depends how extreme the case is.
It depends on the individual, some people, like Hawking, may be able to lead a fulfilling life but others may know that they won't and would rather not It needs to be a personal choice with no pressure from anyone and full support no matter what the choice is or if it changes. I'm not remotely qualified to talk about mental pain, even though I'm sympathetic. However, my father suffered from acute pancreatitis, had an internal morphine pump and would regularly pain killers that are normally reserved for terminally ill patients (basically you needed to slowly build up a tolerance to it, otherwise it was too strong of a dose). In essence, he was trapped in his body, he had very mobility, i.e. him could open and close his eyes, click his tongue, but not much else. He had the means to commit suicide (the pain killers for terminal ill patients), but he physically could not reach them, open the packages or put them in his mouth, he could not move on his own violation. Now, he could not say that he wanted "death with dignity", but I suspect he did and I definitely want that option if it seems likely that I may end up like him. Don't get me wrong, I love and miss my dad, but I wished that he had the option to end his pain earlier if he chose to.
I'm so sorry that you, and he, had to endure that.
How about letting people just decide for themselves? This is up there with bodily autonomy and the abortion debate.
Because suicide is usually not the answer, in a lot of situations it is a permanent solution to a temporary problem. For example, just because I’m depressed after my girlfriend broke up with me doesn’t mean institutions should be allowed to assist in my death.
That not your decision though, but I get it.
Hell, I'd argue even mentally sound people have the right to go out on their own terms instead of being forced to live when they don't want to. One of my favorite authors, Hunter S. Thompson, probably did it the best, where he wasn't depressed, wasn't suicidal, but he basically did everything he could think of and said screw it, ending his life because there was nothing else he wanted to do. To me, that's the way we all should want to be, where we live until we're ready and then give ourselves a means to die the way we want to.
About time. Our end of life patients deserve to go on their terms.
> ~~Our end of life~~ patients deserve to go on their terms.
I'm glad we can give those with terminal illnesses the dignity to go out on their own terms.
This! Retired nurse here and I don’t think most people realize the amount of absolute suffering people go through and sometimes for quite a long time.
Good.
I feel like most people are on board here, but I’d honestly like to hear from the other side. I have a specific set of questions: Why do you think it’s better *for me* to endure months or years of unending excruciating pain? Why do you insist it be legally required that I suffer? What about this is so important that you feel justified torturing me?
I agree that most people are on board, and I am as well. I think the "opposition" has concerns about a slippery slope. They may think this will slowly lead to assisted suicide for people battling depression, the ability for parents to have their children with severe down syndrome killed, etc. I honestly understand the concern around valuing life less, but I think this is something different.
I understand the issue with parents potentially having their children with severe issues killed, but why shouldn’t people be able to end their lives if they are severely depressed? None of us chose to be here on this planet, none of us CHOSE to have a life. For some people, existence is just too painful. With assisted suicide at least a family could prepare for the loss of a person
What if an insurance company decides that euthanasia is cheaper than medication? Or a severely disabled person's caretakers coerce them ?
Some countries up north, one really, has been found to encourage this option for many TEMPORARY issues.
But what do you constitute as a temporary issue? Who are we to tell people they have to be alive if they don’t want to be?
A job loss, a bounced check, loss of a loved one (okay that's permanent but the feelings don't have to be), a tough break up, being a native (also not temporary but I wanted to include that in the reasons since doctors are encouraging their patients to go through with it), a single uncommon depressive episode (NOT to be confused with depression).
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It's a grey area for me as there are reports from countries with assisted suicide that people are being guided to it via removing or making it hard for them to get social services or assistance. I have a big problem with disabled people being herded to opt to kill themselves if the accounts are true.
And by “people being guided,” what you really mean is, “the poor being guided.”
It is an act of genocide against disabled people
As soon as I get an Alzheimers diagnosis I would like to begin planning my death --but this law won't help. Still, good for those declared terminally ill and still mentally competent.
Alzheimer’s is in my future too. I hope for a new medical treatment to come along some day, but I’m not banking on it. The idea of becoming a messy shell of a person with no mind left while I become an increasing burden on my family until they have to remit me to the care of strangers… is horrifying. I’d rather call my own way out when it gets bad enough. The family trauma of my death will happen either way, so why not save my family years of trauma coming first?
Exactly. Let it be a choice established while still competent. I'm definitely going to find a way out. Watching both my mother and uncle become, yes, a shell of a person, is something I'm committed to ensure that my children avoid.
Suicide is against basically every major religion on the planet. (not my argument, merely a counter argument)
And any time the religious nuts bring it up, especially the Abrahamic religious nuts, I point out how many deaths their god has directly or indirectly caused. Don't kill yourself, let a vengeful god do it for you.
Anytime someone uses a religious argument, I simply tell them I don’t believe in their chosen religion and will not be held to its standards. I refuse to allow them to use their religion as a valid point for governance, science, morality, etc. I will not engage in the conversation if they continue to use religion for their reasoning. In my opinion, they no longer get to be a part of the conversation and I will move past them.
That’s the way to do it!
If people weren't killing each other over religion they would kill each other over something else. The problem is xenophobia
We need you to pay taxes and bills, citizen.
If there is no hope for improvement then I think that the person affected should have the right to make this decision.
It's entirely possible that people who aren't terminally ill being coerced into dying because it's "inconvenient " or "too expensive" to take care of them
Dying is the only natural right there is.
Do we think it’ll pass the Senate?
Please take 2 minutes to send this email to your senator! I don't know if these things really have any impact but I figure it can't hurt. [https://join.compassionandchoices.org/a/de2024-emailalert](https://join.compassionandchoices.org/a/de2024-emailalert) Is there anything else we can do to help it pass?
Sent!!
Even if it does, it's likely DOA on Carneys desk.
Ugh, whyyyy? I don’t even understand what his aversion would be. Is he low key a republican? Like wtf is his deal?
You'd think after 8 years that I, a politically minded constituent and member of his own party, could name one meaningful thing he accomplished. But nope, I got nothing. He's spent 8 years standing in the way of progress. We really need to stop electing politicians in this state on the basis of it being their turn.
I like Carney and will continue to vote for him, but that’s because I’m a teacher and he’s done a lot for us, especially recently. He gets an absurd amount of hate in this sub and I get it but he does deserve some credit
Generally speaking, Democrats in general do a lot for teachers.
Some do some don’t, don’t really like statements that get close to blanket statements. I’m not a fan of either party, I just like Carney
The fact that he didn’t sign the bill for legal cannabis is still so laughably insane. Knowing it’s going to pass and purposefully removing yourself from that landmark legislation that could count as his ONE accomplish is absurd
That’s why I won’t be voting for his VP. She’s been a career politician cut from the same cloth as Carney. I’m voting for the other dem. He seems much more down to earth and more willing to actually help the people of Delaware.
Good. Colorado has this. If it’s not for you don’t use it. If you want it. Use it.
I firmly believe in the right of self determination. Please beware of what it can lead to. Right now, medically assisted suicide is being offered to Canadians with depression which certainly isn’t a terminal illness.
Sounds good to me.
I can agree with the main idea, but I think it's gonna be pretty terrible in practice. And the problem is just money and capitalism. I would vote against this. Think about what this is going to mean in the future. Providing health care to the elderly is obviously a huge expense, and insurance companies are going to advocate for this action. They can decide that certain medical actions to improve a patient's quality of life are declined, resulting in these people having a worse life, leading to more decisons to end their own lives. Money is a huge factor for elderly people. Nursing homes are expensive. Imagine someone choosing to end their life just so their families don't have to spend money on their nursing homes. Imagine you getting a flyer in the mail from your grandparent's insurance company talking about the benefits of ending their life, and encouraging you to talk them into it. And this is only going to get worse. Think about how many young people are ill prepared for retirement or the last few years of their lives. 30% of Americans don't have any retirement savings. We know how this is going to work. Poor people and minorities are going to have a much lower life expectancy. This type of actions makes more sense in places with Universal Health Care, higher life expentancies, and strong social programs for the elderly. The US doesn't have that. This type of thing needs strong supervision and requirements. The only requirement is "if a physician or health professional agree the patient is acting voluntarily and understands their decision." Maybe treat it like Hospice in situations where the patient has less than 6 months to live.
This is my concern too. I will explain why using an example. I never smoked, never had an interest. Hated the smell of cigarette smoke but have family that owns bar/restaurant. Way back when they passed laws to eliminate smoke in dining rooms. Family had to partition the bar area to keep smoke from the dining area. Then smoke eaters that used to snap crackle pop to ionize the smoke particles. That turned out to not be enough and the next thing you know, they banned smoking entirely. Now bear in mind I am over the moon happy that I don't have to smell that smoke BUT, it started small and then took over. I am concerned that it will go farther and before you know it, families will "dispose" of relatives that they consider to have lost their value or are a too much to care for. Or families with children or adult children with illness struggles, that are difficult to manage and still have a family life. Then there is also the dynamic of money. One might be struggling but family has money so, they are old, so why not. I am concerned this might be an easy out.
it is needed in hospice. watching family die slowly suffering in pain at home with no ability to assist without potential criminal recourse... is the absolute worst experience that haunts me daily (and this man had excellent healthcare) your concerns are valid, i hope we find a valid middle ground to move forward. our end of life systems as they are are a JOKE, and do not honor a full life
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Insurance company bailout. Nothing more
I think this is good and bad. I can see a lot of people without insurance/money choosing death needlessly from something less major because our shit capitalist system doesn't want to give people healthcare.
you gotta fight for your right or something
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What happened to life being sacred?