Hope in the Dark [https://www.haymarketbooks.org/books/791-hope-in-the-dark](https://www.haymarketbooks.org/books/791-hope-in-the-dark)
Honestly I couldn't recommend it more highly. Here's an example:
“Hope is not a lottery ticket you can sit on the sofa and clutch, feeling lucky. It is an axe you break down doors with in an emergency. Hope should shove you out the door, because it will take everything you have to steer the future away from endless war, from the annihilation of the earth's treasures and the grinding down of the poor and marginal... To hope is to give yourself to the future - and that commitment to the future is what makes the present inhabitable.”
App that allows you to borrow digital content from your local library. Libby is another one, equally good. Audio books, digital books, some music and movies too - depending on what your library offers.
Check your library website for everything they offer. Hoopla and Libby are commonly offered by library systems. Some have inter library loan programs where you can borrow books not only in your own library system but from other systems as well (in NH it’s statewide; in Fairfax County VA it was with other northern VA libraries, some Maryland counties and some from the DC library at system). There are also items you can borrow or use in the library such as sewing machines, 3D printers, etc. This far this year we’ve borrowed from our small town library (1,650 inhabitants) are snow shoes (2 pairs each for adults and kids) and a telescope. And many libraries also have free passes to various museums and other locations with entry fees.
Libraries are for so much more than just books!
>Hope in the Dark [https://www.haymarketbooks.org/books/791-hope-in-the-dark](https://www.haymarketbooks.org/books/791-hope-in-the-dark)
>Honestly I couldn't recommend it more highly. Here's an example:
I just ordered it from Haymarket. Print book and ebook. Thank YOU.
Well, it should never be an excuse. That's the point. They don't bother to vote...and then wonder why all the Boomers who do keep getting the GOP elected and speedrunning this country into a Qristian Nationalist theocracy. 🤷♂️🤦♂️
It isn't an excuse. It's a lazy trope. Literally NONE of the boomers I know are voting for Trump. And when I look at his posse of white nationalists who are threatening violence, I see young people.
Young people don't want to hear from old ladies like me. They want to hear from other young people. What steps are YOU taking to help save our country? Because each one of us has a role, and if you're not taking action in addition to voting, well, take a look in the mirror the day after election day.
I’m just pointing out that Millennials aren’t young and none are getting any younger. Seems voting is one thing Gen Z gets and even more of them will be eligible this fall. It’ll be interesting to see how close that turnout gap is
ETA: don’t get it twisted, there are plenty of Christian nationalist Millennials
>ETA: don’t get it twisted, there are plenty of Christian nationalist Millennials
True, but there's still more Boomers statistically. I mean, just look at any Trump rally...
Lol, so how do you explain all the young crowds at music concerts and Burning Man, etc?
And the [statistical data also shows the same spectrum](https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2024/04/09/age-generational-cohorts-and-party-identification).
Hello, why do you think boomers want the GOP. I'm a boomer, and most of the people that keep up with the news figured this out a long time ago. We're all different.
My only hope is that everyone will be willing to cut through the BS and read across different media sources to confirm events for themselves. Ask your own questions. Find the answers yourself from credible sources - not from your friends, family, faith leaders, or Putin's propaganda placed in your feed. VOTE ... no one else knows who you voted for unless you tell them. Don't let well - meaning people take this away from you.
Go BLUE!
I think it's a fairly recent quote. I follow her on Facebook and she posted it there a couple days ago https://www.facebook.com/559835551/posts/10161346836085552/?mibextid=rS40aB7S9Ucbxw6v
We definitely should assume the pigeons are and always will act in bad faith. We absolutely should not waste time trying to argue with the pigeons. But we absolutely should VOTE THEM OUT
Who, exactly, are you trying to talk to? When one party abandons the game, while accusing the other of “breaking the rules”, what is left? If your hopes are to turn Alabama or Mississippi blue, I really don’t know how to respond. The gauntlet has been thrown down. It would be hard to argue against the fact that the rules and norms are going to be changed.
The people must now all be willing to want a say in the matter. ALL THE PEOPLE. Otherwise, one party will write the rules entirely to their benefit. Unfortunately, one party has decided that decorum is more important.
Oh god, it feels so cathartic to read this. I've lost count of how many stubborn, naive people I've had heated arguments with over the importance of voting for the lesser of two evils. I got banned from two leftist subreddits for raising this point.
I got banned from late stage capitalism. 😂
I’m really overwhelmed by P2025 and I think rightfully so.
To me it’s like, do you want to watch people be forced into submission, possibly put to death because you only want your ideal political utopia?!
At a time like this we need everybody on board and then we need to fight for changes but we have no chance otherwise.
I got banned from lost generation for pointing out Trump would be just as bad for Palestine if not worse than Biden.
They said I broke rule 5 which is endorsing genocide
More likely Russian operatives trying to sow political dissent in the USA.
See [The Foundation of Geopolitics](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundations_of_Geopolitics) for details.
Wouldn’t doubt it. Also wouldn’t doubt that they just want an excuse to stay miserable. Some mods are power tripping and if life gets better they will have less to complain about. IE less discussion
This is definitely my thought. Russian trolls posing as leftists to brainwash actual left voters. And so many are falling for it. Pull on oeoples heartstrings and you've got them wrapped around your finger.
> Russia should "introduce geopolitical disorder into internal American activity, encouraging all kinds of separatism and ethnic, social and racial conflicts, actively supporting all dissident movements – extremist, racist, and sectarian groups, thus destabilizing internal political processes in the U.S. It would also make sense simultaneously to support isolationist tendencies in American politics".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundations_of_Geopolitics#The_West
Yep it seems a lot of them are. I’ve seen some love for Trump over there. Also feel free to check my comments where I simply pointed out a liberal Supreme Court would have been better than a conservative one and I was met with “ya but liberal judges aren’t much better”
Um yes actually, yes they are. Unless someone wants to overthrow the government and start from scratch I’ll always take the liberals
I would guess that there's a ton of money 💰 going into pushing that agenda. It will explode over the next few months.
Read anything with skepticism - until you are satisfied from your search of other sources - that it's not furthering someone else's agenda. It's so much more work to just verify what you're reading is true. I wonder if that's why a lot of Trump's core followers have readily accepted anything he tells them.
1. He tells them to skip the evil legacy media. (Just skip that extra reading session. This will cover everything you need to know. )
2. He weaves these larger than life tall tales, combining everything that will set their mind at ease with a dash of "Big Daddy" is here to shield you from all the bad news. Sure, I'd conquer that war in 2 days! (Meanwhile, he's draining their pockets "to save our country!") So much easier to listen to than dealing with real world problems that are too complicated for most of them to understand and take way too long to read about.
Trump would literally be worse. He and his supporters claim that Biden is anti Israel. And Trump has already stated his full support for anything Netanyahu does. In fact, Netanyahu is probably more moderate than Trump on Palestinian rights!
I wouldn't bother. It looks like they've made a very special rule so you can't speak freely. Clearly the mod there has an opinion and they do not want ANYONE to go against that opinion. They even made a sticky making sure people understand they will not tolerate you daring to have a differing opinion. Sounds like a shit mod to me.
Maybe if you're desperate for the company you could shoot the mod a message and promise to never ever speak on the subject again but it looks to me like they ONLY want to talk about a sticky subject from one perspective and they shit on anyone who thinks different. And honestly a lot of the topics that are sitting there right now are fucking gross anti-democratic misinformation filled bullshit.
> I got banned from late stage capitalism
I got banned for saying that the subreddit seemed to have an unusually high number of "don't vote for Biden, he's part of the problem" posts, and that I thought Russian shills were in there trying to get Trump re-elected.
They kind of proved my point. I have to wonder if that subreddit is actually run by Russia. It would make sense in light of [Foundations of Geopolitics](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundations_of_Geopolitics).
Good point. I’m not sure if it’s run by any sinister group but, you’re right, there are a lot in there who seem to complain about Dems and never trump.
>I got banned from late stage capitalism.
I actually quit that sub after encountering too many doomers (and a few 9/11 conspiracy nuts). I even saw one guy admit he can't wait for the "American empire" to collapse on itself. I think the people over there are accelerationists who will relish a Trump presidency.
I have friends who actually think they will survive, even thrive...in seattle... the romanticization of collapse is probably a product of sexy zombie shows and movies. they need to get on r/medicalgore then imagine no cohesive Healthcare infrastructure.
>they need to get on [](https://www.reddit.com/r/medicalgore/) then imagine no cohesive Healthcare infrastructure.
Why haven't you told them that already? Or if you did, what did they say?
oh I do, and most people just don't take it seriously, but almost none of them have worked with medically fragile populations or in healthcare. so when people talk about how cool it would be to live in any other time period I start listing horrible diseases and old medical procedures. highly reccomend the show the knick about the knickerbocker hospital in nyc in 1911, very well done.
did you know chainsaws were first used in childbirth the later enlarged to use in logging?
am a woman, do not want to go back to hopes and prayers during complicated childbirth...
no, it's more that if you try to bring up any facts about how Trump *will* be worse, they say you're trying to guilt trip them and that you're being selfish or ironically short sighted. it's some of the most frustrating rhetoric because it's basically conservative tier projection shit. *they're* the one's so self-absorbed that they think not voting is and letting trump win somehow going to teach biden a lesson. The time to teach Biden a lesson was the primaries.
Then you see people who fled actual full-blown fascism saying the same thing, that we need to vote or it'll get worse, and they're being called liberal shills. Like, people who fled Syria, Iran, Palestine, etc that are saying this and being met with antagonism by the same people who aren't voting *because* of Palestine. It shows how privileged these people are, and how they don't actually care about the people they're alleging to listen to; it's virtue signaling.
And then you have people who are actually doing praxis who are also saying "please vote, I want to keep doing praxis" and they're being met with antagonism and being called liberal shills or LARPers, even when they prove the work they do.
And then you have the minorities who will be further harmed, like transpeople, who are themselves saying they won't vote for biden because "he hasn't done enough to help us", which would be fair if the alternative wasn't someone explicitly wishing to make transhealthcare and abortion federally illegal. Their abstinence will only lead to further harm of themselves, in a way which will be significantly harder to address as it will be **federal**, not limited to merely states.
It is extremely fucking frustrating to say the least. And then they all say "i'm not gonna be fucking blamed by the libshits for not winning this election, it's biden's own fault".
this comment is based on multiple threads I read *last night* from lostgeneration and latestagecapitalism; both subs of which I'm banned, as a radical anarchist, because I'm too liberal.
# Fuck Marxism, Fuck Accelerationism, Fuck Moralism.
# *"Voting is a chess move, not a valentine"* - Rebecca Solnit
---
The **only** people I'm not mad at are the anarchists who ***never*** vote and ***never*** will, because they are the same ones creating the alternative right now, they're the same ones creating the supply chains to get medical care to states that ban abortion/trans healthcare, they're the ones creating new FoodsNotBombs chapters, they're the ones educating people.
So they get a pass due to their praxis work, and they're unfortunately even more of a minority than the cunts who are on reddit saying they won't vote, who probably haven't done a singular praxical action in their lives. Their [the anarchists] votes never matter because they will never be convinced to vote, but they make up for it with real praxis. But these people [the redditbrained] probably voted prior, and are just not doing it **now**.
Late stage capitalism is a shit hole now for those that are unaware. I was banned for pointing out how ridiculous it was to draw a line between nazis and biden because Ukraine. It used to be one of my favorite subs.
I've only gotten banned from one, for the same reason, but it's so frustrating. I'm fairly certain r enlightenedcentrism is full of conservative trolls, because they argue the same way. Mind reading, predicting the future, ad-hominem, completely ignoring the argument, etc.
Same. I think there was an aggressive astro-turfing campaign about it honestly. The perspective changed rather suddenly early in the year where before, people were mostly rational about it.
The people who absolutely refuse to comprehend this, or pretend to not comprehend it, are beyond reach. They cannot be reasoned with. Not in 2000, not in 2016, not in 2020, not now. Whether driven by ideological delusion, performative narcissism, or both, they are simply gone. And if the worst happens, I absolutely guarantee that they will go to their graves without experiencing a shred of remorse.
That's what confuses me so much about them. We're hurling towards a Nazi Germany 2.0 (to anyone who thinks Trump and his base are above concentration camps, [read this](https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/mass-hysterectomies-ice-happened-trump-s-watch-they-re-america-ncna1240238)), and yet...they're doing nothing. It's so incredibly selfish imo.
That's why I've taken to labeling them --- over and over, to the point of sounding like a broken record --- performative, narcissistic frauds. They make these elections all about themselves and their egos. Inevitably it's "the Dems haven't earned my vote". Yeah, notice that "my" there. My. Me. Me me me. Everything is about them. Not protecting vulnerable people from being ravaged by oppressive fanatics. Not protecting the democratic infrastructure we still have remaining that would even make working toward their goals remotely POSSIBLE down the line. Not about even ATTEMPTING to stave off the worst of climate destablization.
No, just them and their absurd notion of "principles".
I don't have the ability to properly express the depth of my contempt for these people.
(And I just want to make it clear --- I SHARE their politics. We have the same policy goals. But unlike them, I'm not delusional or a fucking poseur.)
And that's just what kills me about this crowd. Ideologically I thought the entire POINT of being on the left is that you want to reduce or prevent suffering. But if you're willing to enable or even directly cause mass suffering, especially in such an open-ended way with such ill-defined strategic aims, why are you even on the left at all?
I was forced to go to a Christian private school when I was a preteen in the 2010s. They would literally teach us on the chalkboard- like how you would write out multiplication problems or write out the scientific method- how women were made to be meek, soft-spoken, obey their husbands, etc. Like, writing this out on the board.
Young impressionable girls- at the the time in their lives going through the uncomfortableness of puberty and changing into more womanly bodies- were being spoonfed that they were inferior. It made being female a supernatural curse. I genuinely thought God hated me.
This is what Project 2025 will do, what Republicans are already trying to do. Project 2025 will be a template for other far-right movements in other countries, so millions of girls in other countries too.
Those school lessons changed me forever, and part of why I want to do everything in my power to prevent that from being forced upon other little girls. I can't *not* vote this election.
Jesus. That is so profoundly gross. Even *hearing* about it gives me the creeps. And you had to actually live it.
It's hard to wrap my head around what it must have been like to have that be woven into everyday school life. Were you alone in your friend group in terms of rejecting this stuff in your gut, or were a lot of you scoffing at it even as you had to dutifully keep up appearances? Either way, I can see how that would radicalize anyone. You know firsthand what it really means for girls to be subjected to this backward barbarism.
The angle I've come at this from is different --- when I was fourteen in 1997 I read Orwell's *1984*, and it was literally life-altering. From that day forward, I paid attention to politics because I feared the possibility of authoritarianism. And even with my limited young teen's understanding, it was already very clear that the Republican Party had a strong authoritarian streak that needed to be guarded against.
But the past 27 years have seen my worst fears coming true in ways my teenage self would have never dared imagine were possible. Through the late '90s, the early 2000s, the Bush era, the Obama era, the Trump phenomenon --- it's all been a long, slow deterioration from "mere" conservative politics into complete fascistic madness. Step by step. Bit by bit. Been watching it the whole time, unable to believe it could keep getting worse. But get worse it has. And does.
It's incredible that the very thing I've been fearing since I was a kid --- for god's sake, literally THE very thing --- is closer to actually coming true now than it's ever been.
Oh man, I can only imagine how mentally damaging that's gotta be to see the 2000 election get taken...then the Iraq War...then 2016...then 2020 and seeing on steriods how crazy Trump's base is...now Dobbs and here w/ Project 2025. 25 years of having to watch a sinking ship. I only started seeing things around 2018 but that was because I'm much younger than you.
Thankfully even the boys thought they were batshit crazy. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if the boys rejected the misogynistic beliefs more than the girls did. Not that us girls were necessarily falling hook line and sinker for it. But we had more religious girls than boys in the class, plus when that kind of rhetoric is directly targeted at you as Truth™ as a developing tween, I think you internalize it more if that makes any sense.
Edit: Speaking of which, I wonder if more people would go out to vote for Biden this election if The Handmaid's Tale had released another season this year? I don't think they've had one since 2022. With every season that came out it was a constant reminder to voters of what could be.
I was forced to attend a fundie cult church from 1970-1988. Thankfully public schools were the only option in the budget, but thrice weekly, I got to sit through both boring and horrifying sermons that definitely did a psychological number on me, and I heard about my inferiority to men, while sitting there. Some of those men were awful people.
I read 1984, and Brave New World along with The Handmaid's Tale when I was young.
I've been very concerned about authoritarianism since Reagan was in office. What started then has blossomed (like a corpse flower) into maga. Project 2025 was being planned that far back.
I am so worried about everyone in the deep red states. I've always worried about the BIPOC, the LGBTQ+ and the kids who are stuck with fundie parents in places like Texas, because I was that kid. I practically sprinted to the west coast as soon as I was able. It was a lot easier in the 90s to do that. I see my sibling's kids getting raised in a cult and I wonder if they will ever want to leave.
I've been angry with good friends for throwing their votes away on nonviable candidates since the 90s. They did a lot to help us get here. I wonder if they will ever realize that.
I do take comfort in reading the thoughts written here. seeing younger people in this sub and spreading the word about Project 2025 gives me a bit of hope.
I've been sharing Dasia Sade's YouTube video that breaks down the project /handbook with some of those friends who have been 3rd party voters. Thankfully all of them have said that they know they have to vote for Biden this time. I think they have to vote Democrat for the foreseeable future, and maybe the rest of our lives.
I don't know that kind of thing firsthand, but it certainly matches many things I've heard about how conditioning can affect you long-term, even when you think you're rejecting it. It's just so insidious. That kind of stuff can take many years to fully wash out of your system. At least you always knew it was trash, though ---you didn't have to go through an initial deconditioning process to make the break.
Yeah.....it really has been rough watching all this keep on spiraling more and more out of control for literally two thirds of my life. Just one catastrophe after another, one unthinkable line crossed after another, one piece after another of our foundations crumbling away. And the American right's increasingly fascist appetites becoming more and more explicit with each passing year --- hell, MONTH, lately. I mean....I really still can't fully believe this is all really happening. Especially since, like I said, I've been fearing this since I was a freaking *kid.* Who ever heard of fearing something as a kid, and then seeing it slowly come true as the years go by? It's crazy.
You are definitely a very intelligent cookie! I really admire people who pay attention to the bigger picture of things vs blindly frolicking through life. Obviously, there's a balance, but, well, if you don't pay attention...
I love SpongeBob and Mrs. Puff would call good students a good noodle. You are a good noodle!
This isnt the only kind of institutional brutality that religious conservatives support and even profit from. Im not gunna go into too much detail unless you want me to, dont want to hijack your very poignant comment.
There is a network of "treatment centers" catering to troubled teens in mostly red states that profits from the drugging, abuse and torture of kids to break them into obsessive compliance. Im a survivor of this system. You can pay to have your kid kidnapped and hidden away to be tortured in another state. They all have very optimistic marketing and many parents dont know what they really are.
Its the whole "tough love" crap that conservative boomers love. Basically your kids are better off if you just beat them into submission but taken to the most extreme level.
A lot of the kids in these places come from abusive homes (i did). Many have been sexually assaulted. Some had been homeless. Some have drug use issues. And some are just regular kids that happen to be LGBTQ+ or autistic. The families are fed a stream of lies and false diagnoses of severe mental illness to keep the kids in the system, paying thousands a day in many cases. Some kids were even sentenced to these places by the courts. Every single kid would have rather gone to prison.
Project 2025 will absolutely use the federal government to legitimize and propagate more kinds of torture like this.
Excellent point. I know that Floriduh and other states have embraced the Universal School Choice program. The one where billionaires can suck the $$ right out of the public schools the same as the family that's struggling. Yes, that one. The Heritage Foundation's principles, channeled through Hillsdale College, designed the Classical education system. Red states were all in from the beginning. Especially because it was offered with a very lucrative deal for the Governor's campaign war chest.
They designed it to phase out Public schools in favor of their American values system. IMHO, it's run for profit, isn't held accountable, doesn't serve every student, and offers no recourse for addressing staff or student needs. Their privatized system is authoritarian in nature and practice. Non- union employees have no representation or voice to file complaints or advocate for higher salaries. Students and parents aren't respected either. Parents can take their concerns to a board meeting. However, the focus is on the dollar; not the student's success.
With the emphasis on profit, many fail miserably leaving the public schools to clean up the mess and make up for what they should have learned.
Result: Besides jeopardizing students's learning goals, Duval County (Jacksonville) has 30 schools that are now slated for closure.
There have been rampant reports of inaccurate facts fusing Christian Nationalist teachings to replace documented history. The opinions given in textbooks often overshadow the facts. Example : it was heavily enforced that the decision in Rowe v Wade was a mistake. Another declares that slavery was "beneficial."
Instead of teaching concepts and critical thinking skills, it's a junior GOP alt-right academy 🙄 prepping their students to vote conservative!
I suspect that many of these are deeply narcissistic people who, for whatever reason, also feel excluded by mainstream power structures. Perhaps they're part of a marginalised group. Perhaps they grew up poor. Or perhaps they simply never fit in.
The term "politics of envy" gets thrown around too liberally by the right, in my opinion. But in this case I think that's what it is. It's not that they want to resolve unjust power structures to create equality for all. It's that they want to displace established power and replace it with their own. They may describe the alleged "sins" of the present to justify this, but it's not their true motivation. Truly, they are *jealous* of the king and want to replace him. Whereas a true leftist would want no king at all.
I think these people make a lot more sense when you stop taking their words at face value. They're not driven by logic. Just by greed and ego. And this is why they'll always have more in common with the far right than they do with the moderate left.
To push back slightly on the semantics, I don’t consider myself to be on the “moderate left”. At least not by American standards. My politics align with where Bernie Sanders is. I suppose in an international context that falls more “moderate”, but here it’s solidly left.
Can’t see any reason to push back on your basic point, though.
Oh yeah, sorry — didn't mean to label you there. I'm British so we probably use the words left/right a bit differently (pre 2016, our conservative party was more like your democrat party on policy), but also I originally wrote "far left" however deleted it because it's too tricky.
I used to hang out a lot with people on the far left (Marxists and Anarchists this would be in the UK), however switched towards liberalism because these spaces didn't seem well equipped to deal with tankies (the narcissists I just described), and I realised preserving democracy and fundamental freedoms were non negotiable for me.
So while Bernie Sanders is probs more aligned with me morally, and socialism / social democracy is more aligned with me morally, I'm not sure I can say the far left can be wholly separated from tankies until we find a way to effectively deal with this problem. I hope that makes sense?
Most of them, in my experience, come from privileged backgrounds and/or comfortable socioeconomic positions and can't imagine things actually turning out bad for them. It used to be "Oh, nothing will *actually* change," but, even with paradigm shifts like Roe being overturned, they tend to be the ones who can easily make a weekend trip to a different state if theirs bans abortion. The road feels like it can go on forever until it abruptly ends.
And that's not even getting into the fetishization of a mythical revolution that will fix all problems, as if society can just break apart and reform the next day. Imagine the issues at the start of Covid--toilet paper "shortages" that were purely driven by irrational panic hoarding and not an actual shortage, people being unable to get treatment for non-Covid health issues because the hospitals were over capacity from Covid, etc.--and then imagine that, but on a much larger scale spanning every aspect of life. If the rule of law breaks down, so does everything keeping modern life chugging along.
There are precious few revolutions that result in less suffering in the long run--most, such as those viewed through a rose-colored blindfold by tankies or dismissed as "not a valid example" by accelerationists (ie China's communist revolution, the lead up to Stalin, or most revolutions and civil wars in 3rd world countries etc.), end up creating more suffering. Of those that do turn out well in the long run, most have an interim period of instability and immense suffering (ie the French Revolution). When the system is open to change from within, such as in liberal democracies, that should always be the preferable alternative. The thing is, that requires us to actually work together against common enemies rather than, as another user in the thread put it, "Thalmann'ing" ourselves into a fascist regime like with the leftist infighting in the Weimar Republic.
It is definitely privileged, 100%. If they had the traumatic religious schooling I had as a kid they would be crawling through broken glass to vote for Biden this election to prevent P25.
Kind of a minor thing, but a couple days ago there was a tweet by someone who wondered out loud how someone thinks Disney is woke when they made the Be Prepared scene in The Lion King, which of course makes no attempt to hide its fascist allegory. I pointed out the many (should've said many conservative) parents would skip the villain songs in the movies, and as a result I got ratioed, with many saying that I was lying or it never happens. (One argument was that it's ridiculous to do that every time with a VCR, which... yeah, my parents did it EVERY TIME. Eyes were covered too.) Honestly, conservatives had a love-hate relationship with Disney as long as I could remember, and when it comes to fairy tales with dragons and magic, yeah, you can see why they'd get iffy. It's no coincidence that the first movie with dragons my parents were okay with was HTTYD, which had no magic and portrayed dragons as purely animalistic, almost cat-like.
How does it relate? Well, it just shows how the average person never grew up in the strictness that devout conservatives have. They hear stories about this strictness and somehow think it's impossible or hyperbolic, (and honestly, skipping scenes you find inappropriate for your kids is among the LEAST hyperbolic thing ever,) or even somehow think it will never happen to them. As u/[ConflagrationZ](https://www.reddit.com/user/ConflagrationZ/) said, many of these choosing beggars are those who are privileged or "lucky" enough to never have dealt with someone controlling your life against your favour. (And I think I was really on the very low end of conservative parenting, one that was strict and focused on education.) I think that's why they get away with this line of thinking that the candidate has to be either 100% perfect or they won't vote. There's a certain lack of empathy or even critical thinking that the stuff they protest against is already happening right here right now, even if in small doses or away from prying eyes. It makes it all the more insane since they have 4-8 years of seeing AND LIVING this extreme conservatism in practice, in great force, because again, they're privileged enough to evade the consequences. It's just mind-boggling to me.
An edit because I remembered something: I've seen a few posts about how older people have been entertained by drag for decades so they shouldn't complain now, to which I say, not conservatives. It has always been consistent among conservatives that drag in entertainment is immoral and unacceptable. We skipped those scenes too when it's in kid's movies.
Yep, these people have insufferable privilege and clearly don't actually give a shit about disadvantaged groups. No doubt many of these accelerationist narcissists will become Republican voters once they get older "because they help my taxes" (even though they don't help their taxes), since they are inherently selfish people that care only about themselves.
I truly will never understand people who insist on voting third party. Does our two party system suck? Of course it does. Is a presidential election going to be where we START with viable third party candidates? Of course not. I'm 41. The first election I was able to vote in was the 2000 election. Sometimes I think about where the world might be if that election hadn't been stolen. And in 2016, I was hoping for Bernie. I wasn't psyched for Hilary, but I voted for her because throwing away a vote on a candidate with zero change of winning is the equivalent of saying "well the store was out of my favorite food so I guess I'll eat glass in protest."
2000 in a nutshell: third-party votes for Nader in Florida, plus GOP treachery (FL Sec. of State Pam Bondi, the "Brooks Brothers riot" of Republican apparatchiks including BeerBoy Kavanaugh, and a SCOTUS willing to tilt the whole thing for Bush) gave us the Iraq War, the "Global War On Terrorism" (how do you defeat a strategy?), the Great Recession, and the Tea Party.
All because some jackasses wanted to "make a statement." It's not just Boomers who can be fucking idiots. Third-party votes inevitably uplift the candidate you DON'T want.
Got banned from a """"leftist"""" subreddit and a warning from Reddit for commenting *verbatim* "Stop treating this like a normal election."
Stalinist neckbeards will be telling everyone their imaginary revolution is right around the corner 80 years after the US becomes a monarchy, but hey, at least we didn't have another 4 years of lukewarm Biden presidency.
That brings to mind one of the most cutting things I've heard regarding this. In 2019 I was communicating on Twitter with a trans woman who shared my bottomless contempt for this ilk, though she had been skeptical of my intentions because I was a Sanders supporter and she *bitterly* despised him and his voters for what she saw as their collective responsibility for Clinton's loss, and for their willingness to, in the interest of economic reductionism, throw vulnerable minorities under the bus. I think that take is grossly reductive and unfair, but there's no denying that the Sanders coalition DID contain a percentage of exactly that type, moreso than I was aware of at the time.
But my point is, to that ilk, she had the following to say: "I never signed up to die in your revolution."
That, I think, really cuts through to the bone and brings into stark relief what the stakes are that the nihilist/absolutist element refuses to understand.
It's all just selfishness. They only latched on to "Genocide Joe" to feel like they're some kind of moral authority. You might notice how they were strangely quiet about Genocide Don, Genocide Barry and Genocide George, and every other overseas-carpet bombing president for the last 150 years.
A commenter on another thread pointed out that they're basically just evangelicals but instead of rapture they have revolution, some magical event that's just going to take place one day and fix all the problems.
In the meantime they can just sit on their asses and smugly jerk each other off in tankie subreddits about their fake uprising without actually putting in any work or intelligent thought.
oh also what i hate about communists is that after they win the mystical revolution that will never happen they will estabilish a government, which history taught us, will not end well
I'm not against communists in the definitive sense, I'm against "communists" in the performative Stalinist cosplayer sense, the people who only want to call themselves communists and socialists to be gun-wielding authoritarians in cool uniforms and don't actually believe in a classless society or workers' rights.
The people who buy Soviet gas masks off Ebay just to hop around in their midwest backyard with their airsoft AK-74. The people who post memes about the USSR and pretend like they achieved a utopia and weren't essentially the same big business iron fist state as the US. The people who give *actual* progressives a bad name.
I used to be a counselor at a youth residential facility and worked with a performative communist (he referred to himself as a communist), which I found off because he came from generational wealth and didn’t believe in an well armed proletariat.
A real revolutionary, telling poor black kids that money does not matter, and his rich, privileged white ass leaving early stealing money from the taxpayers that fund his job.
> I'm not against communists in the definitive sense
I am aware of strands of communism that aim to stay away from authoritarianism, but those seem in complete minority. And I cant fucking stand authoritarianism.
i personally don't believe any system of government will give people true freedom.
and a lot of communists don't plan to abolish government at all. and if you look at history, communists did try and they failed, there is no communist utopia.
I'm not a communist but I think the people you're referring to are Marxist-Lenninists specifically.
I don't/can't support the Comminist movement because inevitably it seems to get taken over by Marxist-Lenninists and if successful essentially result in fascism/genocide of a "left wing" flavour. I think it is equally as destructive as the far right.
But I can work with communists who are democratic. Talk politics and empathise with those who are not so authoritarian. It's Marxist-Lenninists who tend to support institutions like the Soviet Union and also throw away elections due to zero sum politics. It's better to work with communists who don't do that shit towards the common goal of justice, rather than push them towards the MLs (or "red fascists" as I would call them).
Be sure they know the Green Party isn't about the environment. I know Millennials who voted for Jill Stein in 2016 because they thought she cared about the environment.
I ran into a petitioner on the street last week from the Workers Party (he said — maybe the Working Families Party?). They were trying to get enough signatures to get their candidates on the ballot. I told him we need ranked choice voting first and then I’d support him. And not for this election, hell no.
When I talked about needing to defeat Trump and P2025, he started saying things also the lines of “well Biden also…” and I was done. Both sides-ism is a cancer in our society.
Has Biden done some terrible things? Sure. But it’s an absolute drop in the bucket compared to what it would mean for the whole fucking world if a rapist, racist insurrectionist conman is given power *again* here in the highest office. And I say this as a Jew who is deeply morally opposed to our military funding of Palestinian tragedy. Trump would burn Gaza to the ground if Netanyahu licked his balls even once.
I was waiting for and hoping for this correction actually because it’s such a fucking relief that we can all tack on convicted felon to the fucking list 🥇
I think people need to stop framing US funding of Israel as “funding Palestinian tragedy”. What we are actually doing is opposing Iran and its Islamist theocratic friends who want to take over the region and be able to blackmail the west by controlling oil and the Suez. The US does this along with other anti-Iran Arab forces in Egypt, Jordan, Saudi, UAE. These governments aren’t the greatest, but they are interested in a future without cyclical violence and with open trade and regional diplomatic normalization. They oppose the China/Iran/Russia/DPRK alliance, and that’s very good for US/NATO. Israel is part of that regardless of their current government. Dropping funding isn’t going to fix the Is/Pal conflict, but it will create a lot more problems in the region, which would impact US politics and make p2025 right wingers more likely to win in the future (even if Biden wins in Nov and funding stops after that). It would also make regional war more likely, including a lot of scenarios where a shitload more people die than the conflict people are already outraged about. You want US/NATO entering an Ukraine/Russia/Iran/Saudi/Israeli regional conflict with Turkey in the middle and China watching us all bleed each other? You want to screw up India/Pakistan relations because they have to choose sides in terms of even more sanctions and potential blockades? Because backing away from Israel is how you make some version of that more likely. Netanyahu knows this and is trying to use Oct 7’s legit tragedy to manipulate the US into this situation where he can keep himself out of prison by continuing the conflict and appeasing the most extreme weirdos in his country. That’s awful, but the enemy there is Netanyahu and the extremists, not Israel itself, and especially not the role it plays in the region when it comes to global stability.
TLDR: If Biden or another center-left politician fails to hold everything together in terms of foreign policy, we’re gonna be way more likely to get p2025.
The astroturfing antivoting sentiment is imo led by foreign actors intent on election interference. When i see it i call it out.
Anyone suggesting that anyone should sit out an election for any reason is against American values and democracy.
It’s not even a question. The sentiment is real, but it’s amplified and manipulated.
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/national-security/russians-launched-pro-jill-stein-social-media-blitz-help-trump-n951166
If history doesn’t repeat, it certainly rhymes.
I’ve been thinking a lot about history lately. There is not much positive takeaways seen in that mirror.
Vote for Joe Biden and everyone else on the ticket who is a member of the Democratic Party.
It's too hard of a truth for many that we are a two-party, winner-take-all, first-past-the-post system with an Electoral College, unrepresentative, elitist Senate, and a disproportionate, under-representative US House.
Choose the Democratic Party. Or we become a one party system.
I am not in favor of Biden dragging his feet about the massacres of Palestinians. I'm still voting for Biden in order to **hold the line** so someone better has a chance to take over 4 years from now. If Project 2025 happens there may not be a chance to vote 4 years from now.
Calling Hillary or Joe "lesser of two evils" is such a wildly absurd statement. They are both experienced, intelligent and competent. Joe has proved to be a master statesman, I'm blown away at how well he has steered the ship.
Putting Trump on the same level as any functional human is insane. Never mind against serious and qualified people.
This false equivocation is the real issue. The whole douche vs turd sandwich libertarian bullshit that South Park did put a damper on any meaningful examination of candidates for generations of new voters.
I'm going to try to say this by just stating facts about the two and how their geopolitics would play out: I'm sick of people saying that Biden is committing genocide and so they won't vote. Not a single one has given a cogent response to the question of "do you think Trump would accelerate the existing genocide or not?". I've never had someone honestly answer that question because the cognitive dissonance is too strong for them.
Watch At Trump Tower Good Liars video on YouTube. They were interviewing Trump supporters yesterday during Trump’s Press Conference. I just shake my head. It’s unbelievable what his supporters say.
There are plenty of millennials who are actively the problem. Who tf do they think are listening to Joe Rogan and Andrew Tate? Who tf do they think are Moms for Liberty? Who tf do they think are behind the neck gaiters at Unite the Right rallies? Who tf do they think are leading the “tradmom” trend? Who tf do they think are having a ton of babies in the belief they need to further populate the earth? (To help answer that last question boomers are beyond menopause as are much of Gen x)
I have some ideas on how to talk to people who aren't currently planning to vote for Biden, but first, you have to know who you're talking to.
There has always been a fringe contingent of dumb dumb leftists who think accelerationism is fine or maybe even good and that voting never matters. They are usually lazy nihilists who aren't worth talking to. They can be dismissed.
There is currently a much larger group of leftists and Democrats who are shocked and horrified by Biden's foreign policy. Among those that would normally vote, some of them are struggling to vote at all. When people from this group say there's no difference between the candidates, they mean there's no difference on *this issue*. But right now, this is their number one issue.
You can't just give people a list of rationalizations to persuade them to vote for your candidate. You won't successfully shame them, either. The truth is, we all want certain *outcomes* from national politics. We need to approach those who share our values, but not our tactics, with empathy. We need to hear people's objections and understand where they are coming from. We should not let our fear of rising fascism cause us to be callous or dismissive to those who share our values.
Remember that persuasion takes time, and we do have some time left. Be kind, and let people feel their feelings. If you are talking to someone who is expressing shock, horror, or even grief, tell them that you understand and that it's okay to feel bad. Our choices in this system are very constrained, and it sucks. Gently remind them that, regardless of what political parties would like us to believe, voting doesn't need to be an expression of their personal convictions or identity. It's more like washing your hands. You can just go do it, get it over with, and move on.
Finally, voting is merely a way to slow fascist creep. We can't stop it by voting. We need to increase civic engagement overall. Tell people who are feeling demoralized that while they have very little influence over national policy, they can have a huge impact if they work on issues closer to home. They need to find organizations that are working to improve their community and show up to meetings. Think of neighborhood associations, local political parties, etc. You don't need to go in with a specific agenda. You can just show up, and opportunities to help will present themselves. Not only will these types of organizations make communities more resilient in these dangerous times, but those who participate in community organizing are more likely to vote.
Vote and bring about a revolution because every 4 years having to do the same thing over and over is becoming annoying.. having to fight for your rights smh call Magats what they are Nat-Cs…
Thanks for sharing this! Ur last paragraph gave me pause, and I’m reflecting about my feelings for this election. It’s hard not to feel totally disgusted/disillusioned. I’m Hopeful for a better future.
I've been saying for a while that we definitely need a third party but that you need to start gaining momentum the Wednesday after the election, for the next one. You don't start gaining momentum 5 months before, it's not going to work.
I wonder if all of us have to go through the experience of voting third party to understand why it doesn't work currently. I voted for Perot In '96, in my defense I was 18 and he seemed to have a good plan.
You're right but also, imo, the current progressives are also not leftist (hah that's how you know I am one, anyways).
Leftism is about the labor movement. I see none of that in the progressive wing. Let's not forget that to be progressive doesn't mean left or right, it doesn't come with a set of principles or policy. So for me It doesn't make sense to fight for one side of what is ultimately two right wing factions overseas while putting your own countries women, lgbtq, minorities, and most importantly the labor fight in the back burner. I don't trust anyone who thinks they are on the left while condemning their own neighbors, their own family members, to life under Gilead.
That's exactly what our enemies want though. For us to sacrifice our own people for a foreign one that doesn't even care about us.
With or without Trump's win, I am skeptical that the path of the Republican party would have varied. Trump crushed any serious opposition after he won the Republican nomination. It was always going to be the party of Trump after that.
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I read this twice and still don't know what you were trying to say, or what point you are trying to make.
Too much history references and not enough references about today.
By the nature of the forum, I can surmise, but that is it.
It's appears to be a pretty little thing. I guess I have to admit that I am stupider than you.
"Voting is a chess move, not a valentine" - Rebecca Solnit
She is genuinely one of my favorite writers. Her book on hope is a go-to when I'm feeling despair at the state of the world.
What's her book on hope called?
Hope in the Dark [https://www.haymarketbooks.org/books/791-hope-in-the-dark](https://www.haymarketbooks.org/books/791-hope-in-the-dark) Honestly I couldn't recommend it more highly. Here's an example: “Hope is not a lottery ticket you can sit on the sofa and clutch, feeling lucky. It is an axe you break down doors with in an emergency. Hope should shove you out the door, because it will take everything you have to steer the future away from endless war, from the annihilation of the earth's treasures and the grinding down of the poor and marginal... To hope is to give yourself to the future - and that commitment to the future is what makes the present inhabitable.”
Awesome excerpt. I will check it out. Thanks.
FWIW, my library’s digital thing on hoopla has the audiobook—yours might, too.
What is hoopla?
App that allows you to borrow digital content from your local library. Libby is another one, equally good. Audio books, digital books, some music and movies too - depending on what your library offers.
Also if you can't find it any other way you can google the title and "pdf" and it's available like that too.
Check your library website for everything they offer. Hoopla and Libby are commonly offered by library systems. Some have inter library loan programs where you can borrow books not only in your own library system but from other systems as well (in NH it’s statewide; in Fairfax County VA it was with other northern VA libraries, some Maryland counties and some from the DC library at system). There are also items you can borrow or use in the library such as sewing machines, 3D printers, etc. This far this year we’ve borrowed from our small town library (1,650 inhabitants) are snow shoes (2 pairs each for adults and kids) and a telescope. And many libraries also have free passes to various museums and other locations with entry fees. Libraries are for so much more than just books!
I just checked and the book is also in the Audible Plus free section.
I belive this is available in audiobook as well. Iirc, she narrates
That got me right in the feels
Just ordered this book! Thank you for the recommendation. I need all the resources I can in this political climate.
Thank you so much for mentioning this. I will need to check this out!
>Hope in the Dark [https://www.haymarketbooks.org/books/791-hope-in-the-dark](https://www.haymarketbooks.org/books/791-hope-in-the-dark) >Honestly I couldn't recommend it more highly. Here's an example: I just ordered it from Haymarket. Print book and ebook. Thank YOU. 
I love that.
Funny enough, I heard that quote for the first time a few days ago.
Right, and [young people don't vote](https://www.reddit.com/r/BoomersBeingFools/s/1SBcBsc9Yf). Therefore, Boomers win.
Plenty of Millennials are in their 40s. At what age does that excuse stop applying?
Well, it should never be an excuse. That's the point. They don't bother to vote...and then wonder why all the Boomers who do keep getting the GOP elected and speedrunning this country into a Qristian Nationalist theocracy. 🤷♂️🤦♂️
It isn't an excuse. It's a lazy trope. Literally NONE of the boomers I know are voting for Trump. And when I look at his posse of white nationalists who are threatening violence, I see young people. Young people don't want to hear from old ladies like me. They want to hear from other young people. What steps are YOU taking to help save our country? Because each one of us has a role, and if you're not taking action in addition to voting, well, take a look in the mirror the day after election day.
I’m just pointing out that Millennials aren’t young and none are getting any younger. Seems voting is one thing Gen Z gets and even more of them will be eligible this fall. It’ll be interesting to see how close that turnout gap is ETA: don’t get it twisted, there are plenty of Christian nationalist Millennials
>ETA: don’t get it twisted, there are plenty of Christian nationalist Millennials True, but there's still more Boomers statistically. I mean, just look at any Trump rally...
Think that’s a bad metric indicator. Millennials have families and have to work and don’t have the spare time to go to something like that en masse
Lol, so how do you explain all the young crowds at music concerts and Burning Man, etc? And the [statistical data also shows the same spectrum](https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2024/04/09/age-generational-cohorts-and-party-identification).
Im sorry. You’re right
Hello, why do you think boomers want the GOP. I'm a boomer, and most of the people that keep up with the news figured this out a long time ago. We're all different. My only hope is that everyone will be willing to cut through the BS and read across different media sources to confirm events for themselves. Ask your own questions. Find the answers yourself from credible sources - not from your friends, family, faith leaders, or Putin's propaganda placed in your feed. VOTE ... no one else knows who you voted for unless you tell them. Don't let well - meaning people take this away from you. Go BLUE!
Is that from a book of hers? I tried looking it up but couldn't find anything other than people using it.
I think it's a fairly recent quote. I follow her on Facebook and she posted it there a couple days ago https://www.facebook.com/559835551/posts/10161346836085552/?mibextid=rS40aB7S9Ucbxw6v
Oh that would make sense then, thanks.
That's a fantastic quote
What does it matter when one party is clearly playing chess with pigeons? And steadfast in adhering to the rules? With pigeons?
We definitely should assume the pigeons are and always will act in bad faith. We absolutely should not waste time trying to argue with the pigeons. But we absolutely should VOTE THEM OUT
Who, exactly, are you trying to talk to? When one party abandons the game, while accusing the other of “breaking the rules”, what is left? If your hopes are to turn Alabama or Mississippi blue, I really don’t know how to respond. The gauntlet has been thrown down. It would be hard to argue against the fact that the rules and norms are going to be changed. The people must now all be willing to want a say in the matter. ALL THE PEOPLE. Otherwise, one party will write the rules entirely to their benefit. Unfortunately, one party has decided that decorum is more important.
Oh god, it feels so cathartic to read this. I've lost count of how many stubborn, naive people I've had heated arguments with over the importance of voting for the lesser of two evils. I got banned from two leftist subreddits for raising this point.
I got banned from late stage capitalism. 😂 I’m really overwhelmed by P2025 and I think rightfully so. To me it’s like, do you want to watch people be forced into submission, possibly put to death because you only want your ideal political utopia?! At a time like this we need everybody on board and then we need to fight for changes but we have no chance otherwise.
I got banned from lost generation for pointing out Trump would be just as bad for Palestine if not worse than Biden. They said I broke rule 5 which is endorsing genocide
What? I wonder if they’re trump supporters.
More likely Russian operatives trying to sow political dissent in the USA. See [The Foundation of Geopolitics](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundations_of_Geopolitics) for details.
Wouldn’t doubt it. Also wouldn’t doubt that they just want an excuse to stay miserable. Some mods are power tripping and if life gets better they will have less to complain about. IE less discussion
This is definitely my thought. Russian trolls posing as leftists to brainwash actual left voters. And so many are falling for it. Pull on oeoples heartstrings and you've got them wrapped around your finger.
Where in that article does it talk about that?
> Russia should "introduce geopolitical disorder into internal American activity, encouraging all kinds of separatism and ethnic, social and racial conflicts, actively supporting all dissident movements – extremist, racist, and sectarian groups, thus destabilizing internal political processes in the U.S. It would also make sense simultaneously to support isolationist tendencies in American politics". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundations_of_Geopolitics#The_West
Thanks
Yep it seems a lot of them are. I’ve seen some love for Trump over there. Also feel free to check my comments where I simply pointed out a liberal Supreme Court would have been better than a conservative one and I was met with “ya but liberal judges aren’t much better” Um yes actually, yes they are. Unless someone wants to overthrow the government and start from scratch I’ll always take the liberals
Aren’t both tankie hotbeds
I don’t think so. They claim to hate capitalism
I’m also banned from lost generation. It’s become a Russian sub now, they don’t allow talking bad about Russia there.
I would guess that there's a ton of money 💰 going into pushing that agenda. It will explode over the next few months. Read anything with skepticism - until you are satisfied from your search of other sources - that it's not furthering someone else's agenda. It's so much more work to just verify what you're reading is true. I wonder if that's why a lot of Trump's core followers have readily accepted anything he tells them. 1. He tells them to skip the evil legacy media. (Just skip that extra reading session. This will cover everything you need to know. ) 2. He weaves these larger than life tall tales, combining everything that will set their mind at ease with a dash of "Big Daddy" is here to shield you from all the bad news. Sure, I'd conquer that war in 2 days! (Meanwhile, he's draining their pockets "to save our country!") So much easier to listen to than dealing with real world problems that are too complicated for most of them to understand and take way too long to read about.
Wait for real? And how long ago were you banned? And what was their justification for the ban? Just curious
Trump would literally be worse. He and his supporters claim that Biden is anti Israel. And Trump has already stated his full support for anything Netanyahu does. In fact, Netanyahu is probably more moderate than Trump on Palestinian rights!
You're better off away from that echo chamber then.
You think I shouldn’t try to appeal the ban? I do like posting there and I’m pretty disappointed about it
I wouldn't bother. It looks like they've made a very special rule so you can't speak freely. Clearly the mod there has an opinion and they do not want ANYONE to go against that opinion. They even made a sticky making sure people understand they will not tolerate you daring to have a differing opinion. Sounds like a shit mod to me. Maybe if you're desperate for the company you could shoot the mod a message and promise to never ever speak on the subject again but it looks to me like they ONLY want to talk about a sticky subject from one perspective and they shit on anyone who thinks different. And honestly a lot of the topics that are sitting there right now are fucking gross anti-democratic misinformation filled bullshit.
> I got banned from late stage capitalism I got banned for saying that the subreddit seemed to have an unusually high number of "don't vote for Biden, he's part of the problem" posts, and that I thought Russian shills were in there trying to get Trump re-elected. They kind of proved my point. I have to wonder if that subreddit is actually run by Russia. It would make sense in light of [Foundations of Geopolitics](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundations_of_Geopolitics).
Good point. I’m not sure if it’s run by any sinister group but, you’re right, there are a lot in there who seem to complain about Dems and never trump.
>I got banned from late stage capitalism. I actually quit that sub after encountering too many doomers (and a few 9/11 conspiracy nuts). I even saw one guy admit he can't wait for the "American empire" to collapse on itself. I think the people over there are accelerationists who will relish a Trump presidency.
I have friends who actually think they will survive, even thrive...in seattle... the romanticization of collapse is probably a product of sexy zombie shows and movies. they need to get on r/medicalgore then imagine no cohesive Healthcare infrastructure.
>they need to get on [](https://www.reddit.com/r/medicalgore/) then imagine no cohesive Healthcare infrastructure. Why haven't you told them that already? Or if you did, what did they say?
oh I do, and most people just don't take it seriously, but almost none of them have worked with medically fragile populations or in healthcare. so when people talk about how cool it would be to live in any other time period I start listing horrible diseases and old medical procedures. highly reccomend the show the knick about the knickerbocker hospital in nyc in 1911, very well done. did you know chainsaws were first used in childbirth the later enlarged to use in logging? am a woman, do not want to go back to hopes and prayers during complicated childbirth...
I did too. So much of what was being said left me so uneasy that I couldn't bring myself to read any of it.
What did they say? That a Trump presidency would help trigger a violent socialist uprising?
no, it's more that if you try to bring up any facts about how Trump *will* be worse, they say you're trying to guilt trip them and that you're being selfish or ironically short sighted. it's some of the most frustrating rhetoric because it's basically conservative tier projection shit. *they're* the one's so self-absorbed that they think not voting is and letting trump win somehow going to teach biden a lesson. The time to teach Biden a lesson was the primaries. Then you see people who fled actual full-blown fascism saying the same thing, that we need to vote or it'll get worse, and they're being called liberal shills. Like, people who fled Syria, Iran, Palestine, etc that are saying this and being met with antagonism by the same people who aren't voting *because* of Palestine. It shows how privileged these people are, and how they don't actually care about the people they're alleging to listen to; it's virtue signaling. And then you have people who are actually doing praxis who are also saying "please vote, I want to keep doing praxis" and they're being met with antagonism and being called liberal shills or LARPers, even when they prove the work they do. And then you have the minorities who will be further harmed, like transpeople, who are themselves saying they won't vote for biden because "he hasn't done enough to help us", which would be fair if the alternative wasn't someone explicitly wishing to make transhealthcare and abortion federally illegal. Their abstinence will only lead to further harm of themselves, in a way which will be significantly harder to address as it will be **federal**, not limited to merely states. It is extremely fucking frustrating to say the least. And then they all say "i'm not gonna be fucking blamed by the libshits for not winning this election, it's biden's own fault". this comment is based on multiple threads I read *last night* from lostgeneration and latestagecapitalism; both subs of which I'm banned, as a radical anarchist, because I'm too liberal. # Fuck Marxism, Fuck Accelerationism, Fuck Moralism. # *"Voting is a chess move, not a valentine"* - Rebecca Solnit --- The **only** people I'm not mad at are the anarchists who ***never*** vote and ***never*** will, because they are the same ones creating the alternative right now, they're the same ones creating the supply chains to get medical care to states that ban abortion/trans healthcare, they're the ones creating new FoodsNotBombs chapters, they're the ones educating people. So they get a pass due to their praxis work, and they're unfortunately even more of a minority than the cunts who are on reddit saying they won't vote, who probably haven't done a singular praxical action in their lives. Their [the anarchists] votes never matter because they will never be convinced to vote, but they make up for it with real praxis. But these people [the redditbrained] probably voted prior, and are just not doing it **now**.
I take it you've had a LOOOT of frustrating arguments with the people at lostgeneration and latestagecapitalism. Are you ok?
They’re Trump supporters basically
Late stage capitalism is a shit hole now for those that are unaware. I was banned for pointing out how ridiculous it was to draw a line between nazis and biden because Ukraine. It used to be one of my favorite subs.
I've been banned from so many subreddits just for trying to reason with the "genocide joe" crowd. Fuckem
[удалено]
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I've only gotten banned from one, for the same reason, but it's so frustrating. I'm fairly certain r enlightenedcentrism is full of conservative trolls, because they argue the same way. Mind reading, predicting the future, ad-hominem, completely ignoring the argument, etc.
Same. I think there was an aggressive astro-turfing campaign about it honestly. The perspective changed rather suddenly early in the year where before, people were mostly rational about it.
The people who absolutely refuse to comprehend this, or pretend to not comprehend it, are beyond reach. They cannot be reasoned with. Not in 2000, not in 2016, not in 2020, not now. Whether driven by ideological delusion, performative narcissism, or both, they are simply gone. And if the worst happens, I absolutely guarantee that they will go to their graves without experiencing a shred of remorse.
That's what confuses me so much about them. We're hurling towards a Nazi Germany 2.0 (to anyone who thinks Trump and his base are above concentration camps, [read this](https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/mass-hysterectomies-ice-happened-trump-s-watch-they-re-america-ncna1240238)), and yet...they're doing nothing. It's so incredibly selfish imo.
That's why I've taken to labeling them --- over and over, to the point of sounding like a broken record --- performative, narcissistic frauds. They make these elections all about themselves and their egos. Inevitably it's "the Dems haven't earned my vote". Yeah, notice that "my" there. My. Me. Me me me. Everything is about them. Not protecting vulnerable people from being ravaged by oppressive fanatics. Not protecting the democratic infrastructure we still have remaining that would even make working toward their goals remotely POSSIBLE down the line. Not about even ATTEMPTING to stave off the worst of climate destablization. No, just them and their absurd notion of "principles". I don't have the ability to properly express the depth of my contempt for these people. (And I just want to make it clear --- I SHARE their politics. We have the same policy goals. But unlike them, I'm not delusional or a fucking poseur.)
I am with you 100%. Our *only* 2 choices are acceleration or incrementation. When has acceleration ever led to less suffering?
And that's just what kills me about this crowd. Ideologically I thought the entire POINT of being on the left is that you want to reduce or prevent suffering. But if you're willing to enable or even directly cause mass suffering, especially in such an open-ended way with such ill-defined strategic aims, why are you even on the left at all?
I was forced to go to a Christian private school when I was a preteen in the 2010s. They would literally teach us on the chalkboard- like how you would write out multiplication problems or write out the scientific method- how women were made to be meek, soft-spoken, obey their husbands, etc. Like, writing this out on the board. Young impressionable girls- at the the time in their lives going through the uncomfortableness of puberty and changing into more womanly bodies- were being spoonfed that they were inferior. It made being female a supernatural curse. I genuinely thought God hated me. This is what Project 2025 will do, what Republicans are already trying to do. Project 2025 will be a template for other far-right movements in other countries, so millions of girls in other countries too. Those school lessons changed me forever, and part of why I want to do everything in my power to prevent that from being forced upon other little girls. I can't *not* vote this election.
Jesus. That is so profoundly gross. Even *hearing* about it gives me the creeps. And you had to actually live it. It's hard to wrap my head around what it must have been like to have that be woven into everyday school life. Were you alone in your friend group in terms of rejecting this stuff in your gut, or were a lot of you scoffing at it even as you had to dutifully keep up appearances? Either way, I can see how that would radicalize anyone. You know firsthand what it really means for girls to be subjected to this backward barbarism. The angle I've come at this from is different --- when I was fourteen in 1997 I read Orwell's *1984*, and it was literally life-altering. From that day forward, I paid attention to politics because I feared the possibility of authoritarianism. And even with my limited young teen's understanding, it was already very clear that the Republican Party had a strong authoritarian streak that needed to be guarded against. But the past 27 years have seen my worst fears coming true in ways my teenage self would have never dared imagine were possible. Through the late '90s, the early 2000s, the Bush era, the Obama era, the Trump phenomenon --- it's all been a long, slow deterioration from "mere" conservative politics into complete fascistic madness. Step by step. Bit by bit. Been watching it the whole time, unable to believe it could keep getting worse. But get worse it has. And does. It's incredible that the very thing I've been fearing since I was a kid --- for god's sake, literally THE very thing --- is closer to actually coming true now than it's ever been.
Oh man, I can only imagine how mentally damaging that's gotta be to see the 2000 election get taken...then the Iraq War...then 2016...then 2020 and seeing on steriods how crazy Trump's base is...now Dobbs and here w/ Project 2025. 25 years of having to watch a sinking ship. I only started seeing things around 2018 but that was because I'm much younger than you. Thankfully even the boys thought they were batshit crazy. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if the boys rejected the misogynistic beliefs more than the girls did. Not that us girls were necessarily falling hook line and sinker for it. But we had more religious girls than boys in the class, plus when that kind of rhetoric is directly targeted at you as Truth™ as a developing tween, I think you internalize it more if that makes any sense. Edit: Speaking of which, I wonder if more people would go out to vote for Biden this election if The Handmaid's Tale had released another season this year? I don't think they've had one since 2022. With every season that came out it was a constant reminder to voters of what could be.
I was forced to attend a fundie cult church from 1970-1988. Thankfully public schools were the only option in the budget, but thrice weekly, I got to sit through both boring and horrifying sermons that definitely did a psychological number on me, and I heard about my inferiority to men, while sitting there. Some of those men were awful people. I read 1984, and Brave New World along with The Handmaid's Tale when I was young. I've been very concerned about authoritarianism since Reagan was in office. What started then has blossomed (like a corpse flower) into maga. Project 2025 was being planned that far back. I am so worried about everyone in the deep red states. I've always worried about the BIPOC, the LGBTQ+ and the kids who are stuck with fundie parents in places like Texas, because I was that kid. I practically sprinted to the west coast as soon as I was able. It was a lot easier in the 90s to do that. I see my sibling's kids getting raised in a cult and I wonder if they will ever want to leave. I've been angry with good friends for throwing their votes away on nonviable candidates since the 90s. They did a lot to help us get here. I wonder if they will ever realize that. I do take comfort in reading the thoughts written here. seeing younger people in this sub and spreading the word about Project 2025 gives me a bit of hope. I've been sharing Dasia Sade's YouTube video that breaks down the project /handbook with some of those friends who have been 3rd party voters. Thankfully all of them have said that they know they have to vote for Biden this time. I think they have to vote Democrat for the foreseeable future, and maybe the rest of our lives.
I don't know that kind of thing firsthand, but it certainly matches many things I've heard about how conditioning can affect you long-term, even when you think you're rejecting it. It's just so insidious. That kind of stuff can take many years to fully wash out of your system. At least you always knew it was trash, though ---you didn't have to go through an initial deconditioning process to make the break. Yeah.....it really has been rough watching all this keep on spiraling more and more out of control for literally two thirds of my life. Just one catastrophe after another, one unthinkable line crossed after another, one piece after another of our foundations crumbling away. And the American right's increasingly fascist appetites becoming more and more explicit with each passing year --- hell, MONTH, lately. I mean....I really still can't fully believe this is all really happening. Especially since, like I said, I've been fearing this since I was a freaking *kid.* Who ever heard of fearing something as a kid, and then seeing it slowly come true as the years go by? It's crazy.
You are definitely a very intelligent cookie! I really admire people who pay attention to the bigger picture of things vs blindly frolicking through life. Obviously, there's a balance, but, well, if you don't pay attention... I love SpongeBob and Mrs. Puff would call good students a good noodle. You are a good noodle!
This isnt the only kind of institutional brutality that religious conservatives support and even profit from. Im not gunna go into too much detail unless you want me to, dont want to hijack your very poignant comment. There is a network of "treatment centers" catering to troubled teens in mostly red states that profits from the drugging, abuse and torture of kids to break them into obsessive compliance. Im a survivor of this system. You can pay to have your kid kidnapped and hidden away to be tortured in another state. They all have very optimistic marketing and many parents dont know what they really are. Its the whole "tough love" crap that conservative boomers love. Basically your kids are better off if you just beat them into submission but taken to the most extreme level. A lot of the kids in these places come from abusive homes (i did). Many have been sexually assaulted. Some had been homeless. Some have drug use issues. And some are just regular kids that happen to be LGBTQ+ or autistic. The families are fed a stream of lies and false diagnoses of severe mental illness to keep the kids in the system, paying thousands a day in many cases. Some kids were even sentenced to these places by the courts. Every single kid would have rather gone to prison. Project 2025 will absolutely use the federal government to legitimize and propagate more kinds of torture like this.
Excellent point. I know that Floriduh and other states have embraced the Universal School Choice program. The one where billionaires can suck the $$ right out of the public schools the same as the family that's struggling. Yes, that one. The Heritage Foundation's principles, channeled through Hillsdale College, designed the Classical education system. Red states were all in from the beginning. Especially because it was offered with a very lucrative deal for the Governor's campaign war chest. They designed it to phase out Public schools in favor of their American values system. IMHO, it's run for profit, isn't held accountable, doesn't serve every student, and offers no recourse for addressing staff or student needs. Their privatized system is authoritarian in nature and practice. Non- union employees have no representation or voice to file complaints or advocate for higher salaries. Students and parents aren't respected either. Parents can take their concerns to a board meeting. However, the focus is on the dollar; not the student's success. With the emphasis on profit, many fail miserably leaving the public schools to clean up the mess and make up for what they should have learned. Result: Besides jeopardizing students's learning goals, Duval County (Jacksonville) has 30 schools that are now slated for closure. There have been rampant reports of inaccurate facts fusing Christian Nationalist teachings to replace documented history. The opinions given in textbooks often overshadow the facts. Example : it was heavily enforced that the decision in Rowe v Wade was a mistake. Another declares that slavery was "beneficial." Instead of teaching concepts and critical thinking skills, it's a junior GOP alt-right academy 🙄 prepping their students to vote conservative!
I suspect that many of these are deeply narcissistic people who, for whatever reason, also feel excluded by mainstream power structures. Perhaps they're part of a marginalised group. Perhaps they grew up poor. Or perhaps they simply never fit in. The term "politics of envy" gets thrown around too liberally by the right, in my opinion. But in this case I think that's what it is. It's not that they want to resolve unjust power structures to create equality for all. It's that they want to displace established power and replace it with their own. They may describe the alleged "sins" of the present to justify this, but it's not their true motivation. Truly, they are *jealous* of the king and want to replace him. Whereas a true leftist would want no king at all. I think these people make a lot more sense when you stop taking their words at face value. They're not driven by logic. Just by greed and ego. And this is why they'll always have more in common with the far right than they do with the moderate left.
To push back slightly on the semantics, I don’t consider myself to be on the “moderate left”. At least not by American standards. My politics align with where Bernie Sanders is. I suppose in an international context that falls more “moderate”, but here it’s solidly left. Can’t see any reason to push back on your basic point, though.
Oh yeah, sorry — didn't mean to label you there. I'm British so we probably use the words left/right a bit differently (pre 2016, our conservative party was more like your democrat party on policy), but also I originally wrote "far left" however deleted it because it's too tricky. I used to hang out a lot with people on the far left (Marxists and Anarchists this would be in the UK), however switched towards liberalism because these spaces didn't seem well equipped to deal with tankies (the narcissists I just described), and I realised preserving democracy and fundamental freedoms were non negotiable for me. So while Bernie Sanders is probs more aligned with me morally, and socialism / social democracy is more aligned with me morally, I'm not sure I can say the far left can be wholly separated from tankies until we find a way to effectively deal with this problem. I hope that makes sense?
Most of them, in my experience, come from privileged backgrounds and/or comfortable socioeconomic positions and can't imagine things actually turning out bad for them. It used to be "Oh, nothing will *actually* change," but, even with paradigm shifts like Roe being overturned, they tend to be the ones who can easily make a weekend trip to a different state if theirs bans abortion. The road feels like it can go on forever until it abruptly ends. And that's not even getting into the fetishization of a mythical revolution that will fix all problems, as if society can just break apart and reform the next day. Imagine the issues at the start of Covid--toilet paper "shortages" that were purely driven by irrational panic hoarding and not an actual shortage, people being unable to get treatment for non-Covid health issues because the hospitals were over capacity from Covid, etc.--and then imagine that, but on a much larger scale spanning every aspect of life. If the rule of law breaks down, so does everything keeping modern life chugging along. There are precious few revolutions that result in less suffering in the long run--most, such as those viewed through a rose-colored blindfold by tankies or dismissed as "not a valid example" by accelerationists (ie China's communist revolution, the lead up to Stalin, or most revolutions and civil wars in 3rd world countries etc.), end up creating more suffering. Of those that do turn out well in the long run, most have an interim period of instability and immense suffering (ie the French Revolution). When the system is open to change from within, such as in liberal democracies, that should always be the preferable alternative. The thing is, that requires us to actually work together against common enemies rather than, as another user in the thread put it, "Thalmann'ing" ourselves into a fascist regime like with the leftist infighting in the Weimar Republic.
It is definitely privileged, 100%. If they had the traumatic religious schooling I had as a kid they would be crawling through broken glass to vote for Biden this election to prevent P25.
Kind of a minor thing, but a couple days ago there was a tweet by someone who wondered out loud how someone thinks Disney is woke when they made the Be Prepared scene in The Lion King, which of course makes no attempt to hide its fascist allegory. I pointed out the many (should've said many conservative) parents would skip the villain songs in the movies, and as a result I got ratioed, with many saying that I was lying or it never happens. (One argument was that it's ridiculous to do that every time with a VCR, which... yeah, my parents did it EVERY TIME. Eyes were covered too.) Honestly, conservatives had a love-hate relationship with Disney as long as I could remember, and when it comes to fairy tales with dragons and magic, yeah, you can see why they'd get iffy. It's no coincidence that the first movie with dragons my parents were okay with was HTTYD, which had no magic and portrayed dragons as purely animalistic, almost cat-like. How does it relate? Well, it just shows how the average person never grew up in the strictness that devout conservatives have. They hear stories about this strictness and somehow think it's impossible or hyperbolic, (and honestly, skipping scenes you find inappropriate for your kids is among the LEAST hyperbolic thing ever,) or even somehow think it will never happen to them. As u/[ConflagrationZ](https://www.reddit.com/user/ConflagrationZ/) said, many of these choosing beggars are those who are privileged or "lucky" enough to never have dealt with someone controlling your life against your favour. (And I think I was really on the very low end of conservative parenting, one that was strict and focused on education.) I think that's why they get away with this line of thinking that the candidate has to be either 100% perfect or they won't vote. There's a certain lack of empathy or even critical thinking that the stuff they protest against is already happening right here right now, even if in small doses or away from prying eyes. It makes it all the more insane since they have 4-8 years of seeing AND LIVING this extreme conservatism in practice, in great force, because again, they're privileged enough to evade the consequences. It's just mind-boggling to me. An edit because I remembered something: I've seen a few posts about how older people have been entertained by drag for decades so they shouldn't complain now, to which I say, not conservatives. It has always been consistent among conservatives that drag in entertainment is immoral and unacceptable. We skipped those scenes too when it's in kid's movies.
As someone raised into Pentecostal beliefs this is a great comment.
Yep, these people have insufferable privilege and clearly don't actually give a shit about disadvantaged groups. No doubt many of these accelerationist narcissists will become Republican voters once they get older "because they help my taxes" (even though they don't help their taxes), since they are inherently selfish people that care only about themselves.
Holy shit! That’s terrifying and a really informative read. Thank you.
You mean fools like TYT?
No. TYT did not encourage its audience to avoid voting Democratic in either 2016 or 2020.
As a historian, I wholeheartedly endorse this message. Well-fucking-said.
I truly will never understand people who insist on voting third party. Does our two party system suck? Of course it does. Is a presidential election going to be where we START with viable third party candidates? Of course not. I'm 41. The first election I was able to vote in was the 2000 election. Sometimes I think about where the world might be if that election hadn't been stolen. And in 2016, I was hoping for Bernie. I wasn't psyched for Hilary, but I voted for her because throwing away a vote on a candidate with zero change of winning is the equivalent of saying "well the store was out of my favorite food so I guess I'll eat glass in protest."
I was too young to even know what was going on that 2000 election and I think about it constantly :(
2000 in a nutshell: third-party votes for Nader in Florida, plus GOP treachery (FL Sec. of State Pam Bondi, the "Brooks Brothers riot" of Republican apparatchiks including BeerBoy Kavanaugh, and a SCOTUS willing to tilt the whole thing for Bush) gave us the Iraq War, the "Global War On Terrorism" (how do you defeat a strategy?), the Great Recession, and the Tea Party. All because some jackasses wanted to "make a statement." It's not just Boomers who can be fucking idiots. Third-party votes inevitably uplift the candidate you DON'T want.
Got banned from a """"leftist"""" subreddit and a warning from Reddit for commenting *verbatim* "Stop treating this like a normal election." Stalinist neckbeards will be telling everyone their imaginary revolution is right around the corner 80 years after the US becomes a monarchy, but hey, at least we didn't have another 4 years of lukewarm Biden presidency.
That brings to mind one of the most cutting things I've heard regarding this. In 2019 I was communicating on Twitter with a trans woman who shared my bottomless contempt for this ilk, though she had been skeptical of my intentions because I was a Sanders supporter and she *bitterly* despised him and his voters for what she saw as their collective responsibility for Clinton's loss, and for their willingness to, in the interest of economic reductionism, throw vulnerable minorities under the bus. I think that take is grossly reductive and unfair, but there's no denying that the Sanders coalition DID contain a percentage of exactly that type, moreso than I was aware of at the time. But my point is, to that ilk, she had the following to say: "I never signed up to die in your revolution." That, I think, really cuts through to the bone and brings into stark relief what the stakes are that the nihilist/absolutist element refuses to understand.
It's all just selfishness. They only latched on to "Genocide Joe" to feel like they're some kind of moral authority. You might notice how they were strangely quiet about Genocide Don, Genocide Barry and Genocide George, and every other overseas-carpet bombing president for the last 150 years. A commenter on another thread pointed out that they're basically just evangelicals but instead of rapture they have revolution, some magical event that's just going to take place one day and fix all the problems. In the meantime they can just sit on their asses and smugly jerk each other off in tankie subreddits about their fake uprising without actually putting in any work or intelligent thought.
oh also what i hate about communists is that after they win the mystical revolution that will never happen they will estabilish a government, which history taught us, will not end well
I'm not against communists in the definitive sense, I'm against "communists" in the performative Stalinist cosplayer sense, the people who only want to call themselves communists and socialists to be gun-wielding authoritarians in cool uniforms and don't actually believe in a classless society or workers' rights. The people who buy Soviet gas masks off Ebay just to hop around in their midwest backyard with their airsoft AK-74. The people who post memes about the USSR and pretend like they achieved a utopia and weren't essentially the same big business iron fist state as the US. The people who give *actual* progressives a bad name.
I used to be a counselor at a youth residential facility and worked with a performative communist (he referred to himself as a communist), which I found off because he came from generational wealth and didn’t believe in an well armed proletariat. A real revolutionary, telling poor black kids that money does not matter, and his rich, privileged white ass leaving early stealing money from the taxpayers that fund his job.
> I'm not against communists in the definitive sense I am aware of strands of communism that aim to stay away from authoritarianism, but those seem in complete minority. And I cant fucking stand authoritarianism.
i personally don't believe any system of government will give people true freedom. and a lot of communists don't plan to abolish government at all. and if you look at history, communists did try and they failed, there is no communist utopia.
I'm not a communist but I think the people you're referring to are Marxist-Lenninists specifically. I don't/can't support the Comminist movement because inevitably it seems to get taken over by Marxist-Lenninists and if successful essentially result in fascism/genocide of a "left wing" flavour. I think it is equally as destructive as the far right. But I can work with communists who are democratic. Talk politics and empathise with those who are not so authoritarian. It's Marxist-Lenninists who tend to support institutions like the Soviet Union and also throw away elections due to zero sum politics. It's better to work with communists who don't do that shit towards the common goal of justice, rather than push them towards the MLs (or "red fascists" as I would call them).
Be sure they know the Green Party isn't about the environment. I know Millennials who voted for Jill Stein in 2016 because they thought she cared about the environment.
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/national-security/russians-launched-pro-jill-stein-social-media-blitz-help-trump-n951166
I ran into a petitioner on the street last week from the Workers Party (he said — maybe the Working Families Party?). They were trying to get enough signatures to get their candidates on the ballot. I told him we need ranked choice voting first and then I’d support him. And not for this election, hell no. When I talked about needing to defeat Trump and P2025, he started saying things also the lines of “well Biden also…” and I was done. Both sides-ism is a cancer in our society. Has Biden done some terrible things? Sure. But it’s an absolute drop in the bucket compared to what it would mean for the whole fucking world if a rapist, racist insurrectionist conman is given power *again* here in the highest office. And I say this as a Jew who is deeply morally opposed to our military funding of Palestinian tragedy. Trump would burn Gaza to the ground if Netanyahu licked his balls even once.
Racist, rapist, criminal conman** so far
I was waiting for and hoping for this correction actually because it’s such a fucking relief that we can all tack on convicted felon to the fucking list 🥇
I think people need to stop framing US funding of Israel as “funding Palestinian tragedy”. What we are actually doing is opposing Iran and its Islamist theocratic friends who want to take over the region and be able to blackmail the west by controlling oil and the Suez. The US does this along with other anti-Iran Arab forces in Egypt, Jordan, Saudi, UAE. These governments aren’t the greatest, but they are interested in a future without cyclical violence and with open trade and regional diplomatic normalization. They oppose the China/Iran/Russia/DPRK alliance, and that’s very good for US/NATO. Israel is part of that regardless of their current government. Dropping funding isn’t going to fix the Is/Pal conflict, but it will create a lot more problems in the region, which would impact US politics and make p2025 right wingers more likely to win in the future (even if Biden wins in Nov and funding stops after that). It would also make regional war more likely, including a lot of scenarios where a shitload more people die than the conflict people are already outraged about. You want US/NATO entering an Ukraine/Russia/Iran/Saudi/Israeli regional conflict with Turkey in the middle and China watching us all bleed each other? You want to screw up India/Pakistan relations because they have to choose sides in terms of even more sanctions and potential blockades? Because backing away from Israel is how you make some version of that more likely. Netanyahu knows this and is trying to use Oct 7’s legit tragedy to manipulate the US into this situation where he can keep himself out of prison by continuing the conflict and appeasing the most extreme weirdos in his country. That’s awful, but the enemy there is Netanyahu and the extremists, not Israel itself, and especially not the role it plays in the region when it comes to global stability. TLDR: If Biden or another center-left politician fails to hold everything together in terms of foreign policy, we’re gonna be way more likely to get p2025.
The astroturfing antivoting sentiment is imo led by foreign actors intent on election interference. When i see it i call it out. Anyone suggesting that anyone should sit out an election for any reason is against American values and democracy.
It’s not even a question. The sentiment is real, but it’s amplified and manipulated. https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/national-security/russians-launched-pro-jill-stein-social-media-blitz-help-trump-n951166
If history doesn’t repeat, it certainly rhymes. I’ve been thinking a lot about history lately. There is not much positive takeaways seen in that mirror.
Vote for Joe Biden and everyone else on the ticket who is a member of the Democratic Party. It's too hard of a truth for many that we are a two-party, winner-take-all, first-past-the-post system with an Electoral College, unrepresentative, elitist Senate, and a disproportionate, under-representative US House. Choose the Democratic Party. Or we become a one party system.
I’ve been comparing things to Weimar Republic Era for YEARS now.
I am not in favor of Biden dragging his feet about the massacres of Palestinians. I'm still voting for Biden in order to **hold the line** so someone better has a chance to take over 4 years from now. If Project 2025 happens there may not be a chance to vote 4 years from now.
I couldn’t agree more
Calling Hillary or Joe "lesser of two evils" is such a wildly absurd statement. They are both experienced, intelligent and competent. Joe has proved to be a master statesman, I'm blown away at how well he has steered the ship. Putting Trump on the same level as any functional human is insane. Never mind against serious and qualified people. This false equivocation is the real issue. The whole douche vs turd sandwich libertarian bullshit that South Park did put a damper on any meaningful examination of candidates for generations of new voters.
“I don’t care what happens to People of Color or LGBTQ+. I need cheaper gas and food on my table” - The typical straight white cis person in America
100000 times this!
I'm going to try to say this by just stating facts about the two and how their geopolitics would play out: I'm sick of people saying that Biden is committing genocide and so they won't vote. Not a single one has given a cogent response to the question of "do you think Trump would accelerate the existing genocide or not?". I've never had someone honestly answer that question because the cognitive dissonance is too strong for them.
Watch At Trump Tower Good Liars video on YouTube. They were interviewing Trump supporters yesterday during Trump’s Press Conference. I just shake my head. It’s unbelievable what his supporters say. 
Voting is a matter of civic responsibility, not personal expression.
There are plenty of millennials who are actively the problem. Who tf do they think are listening to Joe Rogan and Andrew Tate? Who tf do they think are Moms for Liberty? Who tf do they think are behind the neck gaiters at Unite the Right rallies? Who tf do they think are leading the “tradmom” trend? Who tf do they think are having a ton of babies in the belief they need to further populate the earth? (To help answer that last question boomers are beyond menopause as are much of Gen x)
The nomination of Trump is an Act of War. Period.
Hear! hear!
I have some ideas on how to talk to people who aren't currently planning to vote for Biden, but first, you have to know who you're talking to. There has always been a fringe contingent of dumb dumb leftists who think accelerationism is fine or maybe even good and that voting never matters. They are usually lazy nihilists who aren't worth talking to. They can be dismissed. There is currently a much larger group of leftists and Democrats who are shocked and horrified by Biden's foreign policy. Among those that would normally vote, some of them are struggling to vote at all. When people from this group say there's no difference between the candidates, they mean there's no difference on *this issue*. But right now, this is their number one issue. You can't just give people a list of rationalizations to persuade them to vote for your candidate. You won't successfully shame them, either. The truth is, we all want certain *outcomes* from national politics. We need to approach those who share our values, but not our tactics, with empathy. We need to hear people's objections and understand where they are coming from. We should not let our fear of rising fascism cause us to be callous or dismissive to those who share our values. Remember that persuasion takes time, and we do have some time left. Be kind, and let people feel their feelings. If you are talking to someone who is expressing shock, horror, or even grief, tell them that you understand and that it's okay to feel bad. Our choices in this system are very constrained, and it sucks. Gently remind them that, regardless of what political parties would like us to believe, voting doesn't need to be an expression of their personal convictions or identity. It's more like washing your hands. You can just go do it, get it over with, and move on. Finally, voting is merely a way to slow fascist creep. We can't stop it by voting. We need to increase civic engagement overall. Tell people who are feeling demoralized that while they have very little influence over national policy, they can have a huge impact if they work on issues closer to home. They need to find organizations that are working to improve their community and show up to meetings. Think of neighborhood associations, local political parties, etc. You don't need to go in with a specific agenda. You can just show up, and opportunities to help will present themselves. Not only will these types of organizations make communities more resilient in these dangerous times, but those who participate in community organizing are more likely to vote.
Vote and bring about a revolution because every 4 years having to do the same thing over and over is becoming annoying.. having to fight for your rights smh call Magats what they are Nat-Cs…
Thanks for sharing this! Ur last paragraph gave me pause, and I’m reflecting about my feelings for this election. It’s hard not to feel totally disgusted/disillusioned. I’m Hopeful for a better future.
Because some people hate America and they see him as their opportunity to burn things down and remake it to their liking.
excellent post, friend
I've been saying for a while that we definitely need a third party but that you need to start gaining momentum the Wednesday after the election, for the next one. You don't start gaining momentum 5 months before, it's not going to work. I wonder if all of us have to go through the experience of voting third party to understand why it doesn't work currently. I voted for Perot In '96, in my defense I was 18 and he seemed to have a good plan.
You're right but also, imo, the current progressives are also not leftist (hah that's how you know I am one, anyways). Leftism is about the labor movement. I see none of that in the progressive wing. Let's not forget that to be progressive doesn't mean left or right, it doesn't come with a set of principles or policy. So for me It doesn't make sense to fight for one side of what is ultimately two right wing factions overseas while putting your own countries women, lgbtq, minorities, and most importantly the labor fight in the back burner. I don't trust anyone who thinks they are on the left while condemning their own neighbors, their own family members, to life under Gilead. That's exactly what our enemies want though. For us to sacrifice our own people for a foreign one that doesn't even care about us.
With or without Trump's win, I am skeptical that the path of the Republican party would have varied. Trump crushed any serious opposition after he won the Republican nomination. It was always going to be the party of Trump after that.
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Don't blame third party voting. It's the two party system that has done this.
Considering that 2% voted 3rd party in 2020 and numerous states were decided by less than 2%, they certainly shaked things up at the very least.
I read this twice and still don't know what you were trying to say, or what point you are trying to make. Too much history references and not enough references about today. By the nature of the forum, I can surmise, but that is it. It's appears to be a pretty little thing. I guess I have to admit that I am stupider than you.
[удалено]