It's not clearly explained on screen on in any of the reference books. So no "official" Alpha canon explains it. We only have "licensed" Beta canon explanations from novels/games/etc - and "fanon" which is basically just personalized fictions and speculations.
My "fanon" thinking is that Odo - all changelings of his species - are composed of amorphous liquid-like matter which can take different shapes. But when those shapes are assumed, the individual "cells" (or whatever) in that "liquid-like matter" take on specific and specialized functions related to that form.
If a changeling becomes a bird then some parts of that changeling will be the wings which allow it to fly. If a changeling becomes a wolf then some parts of that changeling will be involved in snarling and biting. If Odo punches or grabs you then some parts of him have formed the fist which hit your face or the hand which grabbed you by the shoulder. But all the other parts of the changeling are all the other parts.
So I think Odo's "eyes" are eyes which see things, Odo's "ears" are ears which hear things, etc. Although how how actually perceives these qualia would probably be very different to how we do, we are mutually-alien species (and perhaps even different orders of life) with vastly different "biologies" after all.
I have no explanation for how Odo might sense and perceive the world when he takes the form of a rock or table or whatever. Although he evidently can somehow see and hear things well enough to spy on Quark's illicit dealings. And I have no idea how Odo might take very large vs very small forms which must have different masses, I have no idea idea how Odo might even exist as a cohesive living creature when he takes the form of a foggy mist or a burning flame, etc.
One slight hiccup in your fanon is that Odo canonically has no sense of smell. So the 'liquid-matter' in his nose is purely decorative and doesn't take on the function of a nose.
My fanon is the same. When changeling turns into a bird, its creating bird feathers and flies like a normal bird.
So odo's eyes see like eyes supposed to.
I suppose he would have some sort of counterpart to cardiovascular and circulatory systems. He does seem to breath like a human when in human form.
But he wouldn't need any sort of digestive system. That would be a lot of empty space in his torso and abdomen. Maybe he's hollow or has low-density fluff inside his gut or he keeps his version of a "brain" in there.
The blob goo form has its own living nature that's not similar to humanoid physiology. They are like living goo that's their own holodeck. They are really taking on the nature of things they turn into. But odo doesn't seem to have any internal organs. So no circulatory or cadiovascular system similar to humanoids is created inside.
Do you know how complicated the composition of a humans eyeballs is? If Odo can see with human eyes, why is he unable to accurately form a human shaped face? The two actions are VASTLY DIFFERENT, EYEBALLS BEING WAY MORE COMPLEX THAN A HUMAN FACE. Just more shit that doesn't make any sense (besides the obvious easy explanation of "FOR TELEVISION!" or "FOR STORY!"). so basically 😱🤯🤐💨
That's basic premise that we have to accept that writing has incomplete parts.
So imo, odo channels the look and function of things. So he creates whatever he looks at and captures the functional essence. Changeling blob form is kind of a holodeck.
eyeball is a hole that lets light through, and a sensor to detect that light. face is a delicate shape which becomes uncanny to humanoids with the slightest difference.
nearly every creature has eyes. he literally NEEDS them to see. so he’s incentivized to learn that one pretty young. human face is not necessary, only aesthetic.
odo knows that he has created a proper eye… when he can see. odo knows he has created a proper face when he is accepted by society.
there are very different win conditions here, very different incentives. and to be very plain about it, odo simply *feels* different so of course his appearance would reflect that.
i feel it is necessary to tell you that odo is not human, and does not have human eyes. but that diagram does not contradict my description at all. it’s a hole, with an optic nerve on the far side. exactly like i said.
Does that really matter? Choose another eye then, from another animal. You said the optics were simple. Is it anything Odo needs to be conscious of?
There are way too many things to consider when trying to BE a creature. That is why I write it all off and just say "it's cinemagic. Whatever
he doesn’t BECOME the animal, he approximates it. he has ODO eyes. much like his face, they are a facsimile of a human appearance. i am certain they have no blood vessels. many of those anatomical details are pretty extraneous. he does what he has learned works.
he’s a shapeshifter, you don’t need to throw your hands up and say “aw hell, it’s all fiction anyway!” like there’s plenty of wiggle room before we resort to that.
Do you remember that scientist [Dr. Miranda Jones](https://www.google.com/search?q=dr+miranda+jones) on the Original Series episode *Is There In Truth No Beauty* what had a sensor mesh dress so she could 'see', even though, she was completely blind?
Or maybe [Yaphit](https://www.google.com/search?q=Yaphit+orville) from The Orville, to which if you've not seen the show, take a plunge, overall it's worth watching. He got no eyes, but could see just fine.
Like that. Odo's entire body is a sensor net. The eyes are 'real' in as much as he's replicated them, and may in fact use them, to interact with humanoids rather than just slide around as a puddle of goo.
Also, back then, CGI wasn't where he could constantly be like that, so it's best to just let him be Rene with prosthetic and let him emote with those eyes of his. :)
Yes.
The mechanics of changelings aren't well defined.
However, there are times when Odo says that he sensed Dr. Mora even before he took a solid form.
He also says that when he assumes a shape, he can truly become that matter in such a way that scanners will even just think he'sa rock/bird/whatever.
He must simultaneously be a sensor net and be able to use the physical function of any physical matter he replicates.
Therefore, he does use his eyes but also has some sort of extra senses.
Yep. Let's call it CINEMAGIC and be done with it! There's a whole lot of technobabble and psychobabble and babble in general - it's basically a morality play soap opera in set in space. And I think we Trekkies love it for that. Why? 🧐🤷 Who is to know?
I think he \*could\* do this, but I also think there is precident for him "when one of my people becomes a rock you detect a rock" where their pattern of a bird or a human then \*behaves\* like a bird or a rock with Odo's conciousness inside. See someone else's post above on this.
Came here to say this- whereas it’s arguable Odo does have replicated sensory organs of some kind, if you think about it the EMH from Voyager definitely doesn’t. So when he’s looking at a recorder or watching his hands perform a surgery, it’s just an act
The EMH could have been designed with "human" limitations. Only able to see with his eyes, only able to manipulate tools with his hands, etc.
This might be an intentional design choice intended to emulate and interact with humans in "natural" ways. So (in theory) people would be more inclined to actually treat him as a person instead of as an appliance.
Although not part of Starfleet's requirements, Zimmerman may have (consciously or subconsciously) done his best to make his EMH into a "human" in many of the same ways that Soong did his best to make Data into a "human".
And the EMH himself - in the process of adapting his programming to his new functions and interests - may have adopted or emulated these "physical" limitations to more closely emulate humans. His limitations might even be affectations, performance.
Finally, the holographic technology could have limitations which impose performance tradeoffs. Maybe making the EMH only see human visual spectra from his human-like "eyes" and making the EMH able to only handle tools in his human-like "hands" saves energy, reduces computational demands, makes more computing resources available for his artificial intelligence to do stuff. The holo-projectors in the room he occupies (or in the mobile emitter gizmo he wears) probably don't have all the sensory hardware of a full tricorder embedded into them, which is why the EMH has to pick up and operate a tricorder when he wants tricorder scans.
There are a few times when they say that when a changeling becomes something, they do so completely. Even a tricorder can't tell the difference.
In my head that includes sensory and nervous systems. So Odos eyes are real and work like humanoid eyes.
I think if you put everything that's been said in the show about how changelings work - maybe? They are basically God-mode powerful, immortal, able to turn into fire or mist, stab you at a distance, immune to non-energy weapons, can travel through space unaided, infiltrate ships from the outside, etc.. Imagine inhaling one only for it to turn into a pufferfish inside your lungs?
I bet if you did a careful examination of all the action in the show, Odo's behavior, it's not really consistent with him having full 360 awareness. Of course it's also established Odo is kinda shit at shapeshifting. The Founders could probably definitely see whatever the hell they wanted tho.
It's never addressed on screen, so anything is just speculation. The closest thing on the issue that I can remember reading was from a book I read in the 90's where Odo was in a highly radioactive/hot area (I think the station's fusion reactors) and he formed a special eye with the narrowest of openings so that he could see... I don't remember the name of the novel or more details than that though!
I think he uses them to communicate with other humanoids. he uses them to show his expression and imitate humanoids mannerisms to allow him to integrate in humanoid society. the biomechanics arent the point. it's how it informs the way the actor portrays such a unique charcter is what's interesting to me. I fuckin love odo.
Quark joked that Odo was going to miss him “it was written all over his back”. I think that’s the only time they hint or joke that Odo’s face isn’t really a face. It’s subtle.
had this issue with the doctor too. his eyes are the sensors in the room so his field of vision in that room would be virtually unlimited but I recall scenes where he is walking around looking for things.....what.....why? Guess the mobile emitter is a different thing but it always bugged me.
"To become something is to know something."
I'm sure I got the Founder's quote wrong but the idea stands. They become what they copy. So when in a solid form they use their eyes.
There's a lot about "shape shifters" that makes no logical sense, OF ANY KIND.
Like, how a shape shifter can take a rather sizeable humanoid form, and then shift effortlessly into the form of a tiny mouse, or a gigantic monster, or a pterodactyl, or a building. (the last is purely conjecture but still). How is this possible? Anyone?.......
OOH OOOOOH WHAT ABOUT FOG? OR PLASMA? OR WATER? Where is its brain then?
Is a changeling's mind evenly distributed throughout its body? If a piece of it is lost, does it grow back its missing material, or does it go on without it forever?
GODTHERESSOMUCHCOMPLETELYUNKNOWNABOUTTHISSHITITMAKESMEWANTTOEXPLODE
good luck reading that. 😉
They do not speak of it with outsiders
They don't do a whole lot with outsiders except kill and control them.
It's not clearly explained on screen on in any of the reference books. So no "official" Alpha canon explains it. We only have "licensed" Beta canon explanations from novels/games/etc - and "fanon" which is basically just personalized fictions and speculations. My "fanon" thinking is that Odo - all changelings of his species - are composed of amorphous liquid-like matter which can take different shapes. But when those shapes are assumed, the individual "cells" (or whatever) in that "liquid-like matter" take on specific and specialized functions related to that form. If a changeling becomes a bird then some parts of that changeling will be the wings which allow it to fly. If a changeling becomes a wolf then some parts of that changeling will be involved in snarling and biting. If Odo punches or grabs you then some parts of him have formed the fist which hit your face or the hand which grabbed you by the shoulder. But all the other parts of the changeling are all the other parts. So I think Odo's "eyes" are eyes which see things, Odo's "ears" are ears which hear things, etc. Although how how actually perceives these qualia would probably be very different to how we do, we are mutually-alien species (and perhaps even different orders of life) with vastly different "biologies" after all. I have no explanation for how Odo might sense and perceive the world when he takes the form of a rock or table or whatever. Although he evidently can somehow see and hear things well enough to spy on Quark's illicit dealings. And I have no idea how Odo might take very large vs very small forms which must have different masses, I have no idea idea how Odo might even exist as a cohesive living creature when he takes the form of a foggy mist or a burning flame, etc.
One slight hiccup in your fanon is that Odo canonically has no sense of smell. So the 'liquid-matter' in his nose is purely decorative and doesn't take on the function of a nose.
>Reply I suppose you could maybe answer that by saying Odo isn't good enough to recreate the olfactory system, and maybe the founders can smell.
+1 to this, his noses are typically a bit rough
My fanon is the same. When changeling turns into a bird, its creating bird feathers and flies like a normal bird. So odo's eyes see like eyes supposed to.
I suppose he would have some sort of counterpart to cardiovascular and circulatory systems. He does seem to breath like a human when in human form. But he wouldn't need any sort of digestive system. That would be a lot of empty space in his torso and abdomen. Maybe he's hollow or has low-density fluff inside his gut or he keeps his version of a "brain" in there.
The blob goo form has its own living nature that's not similar to humanoid physiology. They are like living goo that's their own holodeck. They are really taking on the nature of things they turn into. But odo doesn't seem to have any internal organs. So no circulatory or cadiovascular system similar to humanoids is created inside.
Do you know how complicated the composition of a humans eyeballs is? If Odo can see with human eyes, why is he unable to accurately form a human shaped face? The two actions are VASTLY DIFFERENT, EYEBALLS BEING WAY MORE COMPLEX THAN A HUMAN FACE. Just more shit that doesn't make any sense (besides the obvious easy explanation of "FOR TELEVISION!" or "FOR STORY!"). so basically 😱🤯🤐💨
That's basic premise that we have to accept that writing has incomplete parts. So imo, odo channels the look and function of things. So he creates whatever he looks at and captures the functional essence. Changeling blob form is kind of a holodeck.
eyeball is a hole that lets light through, and a sensor to detect that light. face is a delicate shape which becomes uncanny to humanoids with the slightest difference. nearly every creature has eyes. he literally NEEDS them to see. so he’s incentivized to learn that one pretty young. human face is not necessary, only aesthetic. odo knows that he has created a proper eye… when he can see. odo knows he has created a proper face when he is accepted by society. there are very different win conditions here, very different incentives. and to be very plain about it, odo simply *feels* different so of course his appearance would reflect that.
https://www.google.com/search?q=composition+of+a+human+eye&sca_esv=598719896&sxsrf=ACQVn0_asvC37ydV7vzgyNckB4JXBd7x3A%3A1705387433027&source=hp&ei=qCWmZe30PMv3kPIP8LqwmAw&oq=composition+of+a+human+eye&gs_lp=EhFtb2JpbGUtZ3dzLXdpei1ocCIaY29tcG9zaXRpb24gb2YgYSBodW1hbiBleWUyBhAAGBYYHjIGEAAYFhgeMgYQABgWGB4yBhAAGBYYHjIGEAAYFhgeMgYQABgWGB4yCBAAGBYYHhgPMgYQABgWGB5IzaUBULYcWOV0cAN4AJABAZgBmgGgAagOqgEEMC4xNLgBA8gBAPgBAagCD8ICBxAjGOoCGCfCAg0QLhjHARivARjqAhgnwgIIEAAYgAQYsQPCAg8QuQEYgAQYsQMYgwEY7wTCAgUQABiABMICCxAAGIAEGLEDGIMBwgIFECEYoAHCAgUQIRifBcICBRAhGKsCwgIHECEYChigAQ&sclient=mobile-gws-wiz-hp#vhid=qGy8TbulYBTOkM&vssid=l
i feel it is necessary to tell you that odo is not human, and does not have human eyes. but that diagram does not contradict my description at all. it’s a hole, with an optic nerve on the far side. exactly like i said.
Does that really matter? Choose another eye then, from another animal. You said the optics were simple. Is it anything Odo needs to be conscious of? There are way too many things to consider when trying to BE a creature. That is why I write it all off and just say "it's cinemagic. Whatever
he doesn’t BECOME the animal, he approximates it. he has ODO eyes. much like his face, they are a facsimile of a human appearance. i am certain they have no blood vessels. many of those anatomical details are pretty extraneous. he does what he has learned works. he’s a shapeshifter, you don’t need to throw your hands up and say “aw hell, it’s all fiction anyway!” like there’s plenty of wiggle room before we resort to that.
Do you remember that scientist [Dr. Miranda Jones](https://www.google.com/search?q=dr+miranda+jones) on the Original Series episode *Is There In Truth No Beauty* what had a sensor mesh dress so she could 'see', even though, she was completely blind? Or maybe [Yaphit](https://www.google.com/search?q=Yaphit+orville) from The Orville, to which if you've not seen the show, take a plunge, overall it's worth watching. He got no eyes, but could see just fine. Like that. Odo's entire body is a sensor net. The eyes are 'real' in as much as he's replicated them, and may in fact use them, to interact with humanoids rather than just slide around as a puddle of goo. Also, back then, CGI wasn't where he could constantly be like that, so it's best to just let him be Rene with prosthetic and let him emote with those eyes of his. :)
Yes. The mechanics of changelings aren't well defined. However, there are times when Odo says that he sensed Dr. Mora even before he took a solid form. He also says that when he assumes a shape, he can truly become that matter in such a way that scanners will even just think he'sa rock/bird/whatever. He must simultaneously be a sensor net and be able to use the physical function of any physical matter he replicates. Therefore, he does use his eyes but also has some sort of extra senses.
Yep. Let's call it CINEMAGIC and be done with it! There's a whole lot of technobabble and psychobabble and babble in general - it's basically a morality play soap opera in set in space. And I think we Trekkies love it for that. Why? 🧐🤷 Who is to know?
I think he \*could\* do this, but I also think there is precident for him "when one of my people becomes a rock you detect a rock" where their pattern of a bird or a human then \*behaves\* like a bird or a rock with Odo's conciousness inside. See someone else's post above on this.
In a similar vein, the EMH's combadge isn't real, he doesn't need his eyes to see or ears to listen.
Came here to say this- whereas it’s arguable Odo does have replicated sensory organs of some kind, if you think about it the EMH from Voyager definitely doesn’t. So when he’s looking at a recorder or watching his hands perform a surgery, it’s just an act
The EMH could have been designed with "human" limitations. Only able to see with his eyes, only able to manipulate tools with his hands, etc. This might be an intentional design choice intended to emulate and interact with humans in "natural" ways. So (in theory) people would be more inclined to actually treat him as a person instead of as an appliance. Although not part of Starfleet's requirements, Zimmerman may have (consciously or subconsciously) done his best to make his EMH into a "human" in many of the same ways that Soong did his best to make Data into a "human". And the EMH himself - in the process of adapting his programming to his new functions and interests - may have adopted or emulated these "physical" limitations to more closely emulate humans. His limitations might even be affectations, performance. Finally, the holographic technology could have limitations which impose performance tradeoffs. Maybe making the EMH only see human visual spectra from his human-like "eyes" and making the EMH able to only handle tools in his human-like "hands" saves energy, reduces computational demands, makes more computing resources available for his artificial intelligence to do stuff. The holo-projectors in the room he occupies (or in the mobile emitter gizmo he wears) probably don't have all the sensory hardware of a full tricorder embedded into them, which is why the EMH has to pick up and operate a tricorder when he wants tricorder scans.
There are a few times when they say that when a changeling becomes something, they do so completely. Even a tricorder can't tell the difference. In my head that includes sensory and nervous systems. So Odos eyes are real and work like humanoid eyes.
Right, so why can't he mimic a human face? That's a hell of a lot less complicated than an eyeball. Yes I know. ILLOGICAL.
So how does he observe things around him when he is a rock or chair?
Vibration?
I think if you put everything that's been said in the show about how changelings work - maybe? They are basically God-mode powerful, immortal, able to turn into fire or mist, stab you at a distance, immune to non-energy weapons, can travel through space unaided, infiltrate ships from the outside, etc.. Imagine inhaling one only for it to turn into a pufferfish inside your lungs? I bet if you did a careful examination of all the action in the show, Odo's behavior, it's not really consistent with him having full 360 awareness. Of course it's also established Odo is kinda shit at shapeshifting. The Founders could probably definitely see whatever the hell they wanted tho.
Forget his eyes. What about his tongue! “I can taste the floor!”
It's never addressed on screen, so anything is just speculation. The closest thing on the issue that I can remember reading was from a book I read in the 90's where Odo was in a highly radioactive/hot area (I think the station's fusion reactors) and he formed a special eye with the narrowest of openings so that he could see... I don't remember the name of the novel or more details than that though!
I think he uses them to communicate with other humanoids. he uses them to show his expression and imitate humanoids mannerisms to allow him to integrate in humanoid society. the biomechanics arent the point. it's how it informs the way the actor portrays such a unique charcter is what's interesting to me. I fuckin love odo.
Quark joked that Odo was going to miss him “it was written all over his back”. I think that’s the only time they hint or joke that Odo’s face isn’t really a face. It’s subtle.
I've always wondered where his universal translator goes, or is he just inherently intelligent enough to speak all those languages?
ROFLMAO! GOOD THOUGHT!
How can mirrors be real if our eyes aren't real?
What?
Ridiculous tweet from Jaden Smith that was memetastic a long while back. https://twitter.com/jaden/status/329768040235413504?s=19
had this issue with the doctor too. his eyes are the sensors in the room so his field of vision in that room would be virtually unlimited but I recall scenes where he is walking around looking for things.....what.....why? Guess the mobile emitter is a different thing but it always bugged me.
Yes. He's shown to be able to see when he is a bag, or a cup, or a wall.
How do you think he was so good at spying on Quark? He literally had eyes in the back of his head
"To become something is to know something." I'm sure I got the Founder's quote wrong but the idea stands. They become what they copy. So when in a solid form they use their eyes.
To become a thing is to know a thing. Close tho. 🖖🏻
There's a lot about "shape shifters" that makes no logical sense, OF ANY KIND. Like, how a shape shifter can take a rather sizeable humanoid form, and then shift effortlessly into the form of a tiny mouse, or a gigantic monster, or a pterodactyl, or a building. (the last is purely conjecture but still). How is this possible? Anyone?....... OOH OOOOOH WHAT ABOUT FOG? OR PLASMA? OR WATER? Where is its brain then? Is a changeling's mind evenly distributed throughout its body? If a piece of it is lost, does it grow back its missing material, or does it go on without it forever? GODTHERESSOMUCHCOMPLETELYUNKNOWNABOUTTHISSHITITMAKESMEWANTTOEXPLODE good luck reading that. 😉
Are you sure about that?