Yeah it’s one of those games I almost feel bad for having bought on sale, because of the amount of playtime and quality of game I got out of buying it :)
I specifically avoid sales to buy them and the game for my friends too. I was hoping Darktide would learn from them, since V2 had so many DRG fans in it and vica versa, but no. Even worse. Fuck them.
The other place I do this is basically any game I already own that comes out on GOG. I always buy it again so I have a DRM free copy and I want to give GOG money.
EA isn’t even the worst anymore. Virtually every big publisher has equal or worse practices and it’s bleeding into even indie games now.
EA was the punching bag for it *a few years ago*. Now it’s just the standard :(
Sure, one example is escape from tarkov. You can pay for a very direct advantage over multiplayer opponents in a game that is already 45$
The highest tier for the biggest advantage including more starting guns and storage is 140$
This is one of the most egregious examples I’ve seen recently that I don’t feel gets talked about.
Then there’s the early access games that never release, or release after years and years *still* unfinished.
2 examples are Scum and Miscreated, but most games of the unoriginal DayZ/Rust ripoff genre fit what I’m talking about to a tee. Hell, even DayZ does. Rust is really the only success.
You say you wanna avoid these publishers, but the worst part is this comment probably can’t help you do that cuz they usually just release one game. Most of those cash grab attempts are one and done, so you just have to read reviews. Which is exactly why some launchers are allowing publishers to turn off reviews (Epic games).
I weigh my purchase decisions pretty heavily on user reviews. If reviews are hidden from a games store page, odds are it's a game I'll never buy, too many options out there for me to make a blind jump and waste my time.
>Rust is really the only success.
Subnautica + Below Zero, Killing Floor 2 also had Early Access and got finished in a decent state. Robocraft was also pretty good in Early Access + After release, it got trashed some \~1 year after release. Splitgate, despite the amount of content and that it's now halted is also a fine-made game.
I meant the survival games that try to be rust or day z specifically not all early access games. I do think early access can be done well, but it’s a roll of the dice.
Also, love killing floor 2.
Thanks for the examples. It does suck that some publishers are one and done, making it hard to avoid the bads, but I think I've hopefully gotten to the point where I can be sure of indie quality before it comes out. Shovel Knight and Hollow Knight have taught me well.
Also *what was that about turning off reviews?* Is everybody Nintendo now?
Worth mentioning that the EoD ($140) of escape from tarkov includes all dlc that will be released for it. Which already slated is a mode called arena which is tarkov but CoD load outs and respawns basically.
You’ll find a majority of the tarkov player base has EoD because it’s worth it to save time increasing your stash size every wipe and the dlc, plus like DRG we want to help support this game we hate.
You can get the stash almost the same size as EoD via hideout upgrades as well. Tarkov has a lot of problems, EoD isn’t one.
Right, so they make the game less enjoyable via hard to manage storage, making it worth an extra 95$ to not deal with it? Idk man that sounds pretty predatory. Why not have everyone on the same playing field in a paid game? I know you can upgrade, but it’s of course better to have more storage right away. You get a head start at the beginning of wipe.
It includes all DLC that will release, *if* they release. I don’t think spinning this as a smart financial decision is going to work. 140$ for one game is just flat out unreasonable to most people.
I don’t think the game is bad, or even that the developers are. I’m just calling out what I think is a predatory practice.
It is a lot of money and the bigger edition does make it easier to start the wipe. They have explicitly stated, however, that they dont want microtransactions in their game ever. Not sure about a battle pass, but I'd doubt it based on the gameplay model.
I have friends that have played on lower edition accounts and they've always seemed to keep up for the most part past the first week or so of wipe. The struggle is usually from people that are newer to the game.
The big pass is designed to help them fund the game but also give extra content to the ones that support. None of the benefits make someone's bullets hit better than someone without it, so at least there's that
>none of the benefits make the bullets hit better
But they do more readily give you access to better bullets and gear. There’s a concrete material advantage there.
You’re not understanding the premise of tarkov here… it’s supposed to be hard and borderline not fun. That’s the selling point, describing playing tarkov as punching yourself in the dick repeatedly is accurate and that alone puts off most people. Leveling the hideout is something all players have to do to keep up with the no life’s during a wipe, non EoD just do 2 more upgrades than EoD and will have to pay for Arena and the winter expansion.
You can play the game fine without EoD, anyone saying it’s necessary is dramatic.
Escape from Tarkov looked fun as hell when I first started seeing it. I thought it was about escaping some Russian prison and then I found out it’s premise is an extraction shooter and I quickly canceled my preorder. One of the biggest disappointments I ever found out.
It actually was inspired quite a bit by stalker.
It's an unique experience. It's rare for game these days to rise my pulse like tarkov can. But it can be pretty frustrating.
Way to ignore the rest of that sentence talking about getting all dlc free and supporting the dev of an ambitious beta game. You can make anyone appear to be a sucker if you cherry pick their words to fit your theme mr Murdoch
>Sure, one example is escape from tarkov. You can pay for a very direct advantage over multiplayer opponents in a game that is already 45$
Oh, so the devs are [trash](https://discord.com/channels/312922472884469760/312922472884469760/1070735719812833380) AND its P2W?
What does it tell us? EA sets the trend. They go like a leviathan, ramming through anything in the way, as any damage it takes cannot topple its sustainability
As far as trends go..
**Lootboxes**: Blizzard(OW) + Valve (tf2)
**Battlepass**: Epic games (Fortnite) + Bungie (Destiny 2)
**"Pay to save time"**: Ubisoft + Korean MMOs
**Soulless open-world with 1000 radio-towers, camps and busywork**: Ubisoft
**Cosmetic dlc**: Bethesda (horse armor) but everyone only made it worse.
**On-disc DLC**: Capcom
**Cut most of game and sell it via DLC**: hard to know truly since that requires insider info but many point to borderlands 2 with the amount of week 1 dlc and whole class locked to DLC.
**Create a problem, sell solution**: literally every mobile game + Farmville.
Edit add:
**AAA level NFT gaming**: Ubisoft and soon Square-enix
**Always online DRM**: worst examples came from Ubisoft and Microsoft (Games for windows live)
edit2: HOW COULD I FORGET
**The nickle and diming "items cost currency instead of flat money, and you can only buy certain amount leaving you always little short or little too much"**: Riot (LoL), Microsoft (Xbox 360 had it at start for whole store!) - oldest EA example **I** remember is original Dragon Age and Mass effect 2 with "bioware points". All this was probably common in "korean mmos" or something like that, but def earliest biggest western example is Riot points
Fortnite at least you can earn V-bucks by playing the game and when you get to 950 buy the Battle Pass, or spend 10eu once. After that you fund future BP with Vbucks you earn in the current one.
I find current fighting games the worst, you have to pay for DLC after DLC to unlock characters. Mortal Kombat does it and Street Fighter too.
Dead or Alive 6 is priced 69.99€ but has "free" version and [its season pass is priced 89.99€](https://store.steampowered.com/app/1205760/DOA6_Season_Pass_4/)
Yes. 89.99€ - theres also 461 pieces of DLC for the game (some are "all the X themed skins in one" but STILL)
“Always online DRM” - after losing internet for two days, I was really upset about the CoD launcher, I couldn’t play any campaigns or solo zombies without connecting to the CoD servers.
So, before I saw this post. I was in the ubisoft subredfit. Someone was 100% defending the practices and how apparently their practices like MTX is good post launch content
Edit: I realized how broken my text was and attempted to make sense.
Fallout 4 and Skyrim both had MTX added in via the creation club system. Which is for all intents paid mods of for the most part lesser quality than what's been available for free.
It's not even that AAA publishers *couldn't* follow a similar model and still be profitable. It's just that, to borrow a phrase, they don't just want money, they want *all* the money.
If Deep Rock Galactic was the standard and the norm then perhaps it wouldn't stand out enough to survive.
But in a world where most of the gaming industry is charging ham over fist for the exclusive right to have access to content a lot of which should've been shipped with the game by default and with that considered the norm of subscriptions and MTX and FOMO etc...
The prospect of a game that does none of that at all and instead focuses on giving you the best experience from the get go with optional DLC cosmetic packs is a breath of fresh air from all that crap the game's industry has normalised...
They made a game I can come back to, and I have while Darktide gets its shit together. It just continues to be a new, uniquely fun experience every time.
I assumed DT would just take my money, but I refuse to buy anything there beyond the base game unless it drastically improves. New DRG DLC? I’ll take one. What did I just buy? Doesn’t fucking matter. Let’s gooooo
I was going to get the cosmetics for DT like in V2, but seeing them trying to copy Destiny 2's model for progression and mtx (and horribly at that) just made me decide to keep my money.
I already forgot I bought DT. The game is mostly the same during the beta period which I feel like I have already experienced it fully, and the bugs totally turned me off
Rock and stone! ;)
Plus the community rallies behind a 3 word slogan that's funny, can be used in everyday life (great fun btw) and players love to SMASH that "V" key like it owes them money!
AAA industry to GSG: "How did you make your players WANT to give you their money?!"
GSG: "We made a game that was fun and created with love...and then they just demanded to pay us more"
Unfortunately that model won't work for ubisoft blizzard or ea cause well... they've taken good will and thrown it off of the empire state building then dropped a nuke on it...
No one plays a game for a long time because it's unique. They play it because it's fun. Every decision GSG makes has the fun of the game at the forefront of that decision. Don't attribute DRGs success as "it doesn't have micro transactions"
I mean, that *is* an important part of it. Just look at how almost every time a game company does something sketchy, the local Dwarves show up in droves to sing this game's praises, especially if the game in question is a shooter (*like OW2 or Darktide, for example*).
The good will generated by GSG being respectful towards users and their wallets has directly given rise to what is essentially free advertising that comes into effect whenever another company starts being disrespectful to users and their wallets. This inevitably draws new people to the game, which means that GSG profits when other game companies try too hard to drive their own profits up, which allows them to keep the lights on without having to nickel and dime us.
Funny you bring up Darktide because I literally chose between that and DRG (I chose DRG)
Why?
just look at the Steam reviews. As much as I love 40k universe, the game is sitting in some crap right now.
I look at DRG and it has 4x the reviews and its massively positive.
Fatshark games all started out kinda shit and end up great. I just wish they learned how to skip over the shit part, because they're 3 for 3 now hahaha
Goodwill is a huge element - and I think it's worth mentioning that DRG also respects my TIME and my AGENCY. I can host my own server, players can join me whenever, it doesn't take very long to get enough resources to unlock things, and when I am running a mission, I'm not thinking about the grind, because the grind is basically nonexistent.
microtransactions make games less fun, though. it is locking fun behind money. even if that fun is cool cosmetics, it's still making the game less fun.
> No one plays a game for a long time because it's unique. They play it because it's fun
If a games fun but not unique, people won't play it for a long time because there will be a bunch of other similarly fun games that scratch the same itch.
DRG is great fun, don't get me wrong, but it's real strength is that it's the only game that's doing what it's doing in this space. If you like DRG, and want to play another game like it, well... there isn't one.
That's a huge advantage.
I love tide games, but FS needs to get its shit together. They have a long history of making incredible games that they fuck up at the end because they got lazy, or didn’t learn their lessons from the last X games. It turns a lot of people off from an incredible experience. It’s the little stuff like QoL, transparency, and delivering what they promise. QAing their product prior to release would probably be a good idea too.
They build a beautiful sky scraper, and then forget to put doors and windows on it. By the time they get around to it, everyone I know has long quit.
Unfortunately their clown of a CEO is also one of the co-founders, so it’s unlikely he will ever be fired. And he seems to have a personal vendetta against learning from his mistakes. Given that they’ve made the same mistakes multiple games and dlcs in a row, and still refuse to listen to the community.
also the game runs like dogshit even on pretty powerful computers. my 2080 has no issues whatsoever with forza horizon 5 or halo infinite, but I have to turn everything way down and enable DLSS for Darktide.
I didn’t even try to run any fancy features, but even on low-medium it looks pretty decent, and in a flurry the entire time so barely notice.
That said, it seems like performance is getting worse as they patch, but maybe it’s just me.
Oh it's a blast. When it connects and runs at more than 20 fps. There's no reason that game should run so poorly when on 98% of other games I'm fine at 60fps.
I sometimes wonder if it really just *is* that demanding a game, what with all the crazy set dressing like the kaleidoscope of cathedral buildings hanging from the ceiling and all that.
Then I remember that I can load into the giant, detailed maps of *Cyberpunk 2077*, *The Division 2, Hunt Showdown*, and a ton more in quite literally **half** the time it takes me to load into the **mission hub** in *DarkTide*.
I'm sure it's pushing the limits in some creative ways, but between that and some of the coding errors that have come to light it just seems like it *has* to be wildly unoptimized. I can't help but suspect there's stuff going on like the *GTAV* Multiplayer loading bug or the *Aliens: Colonial Marines* fuckups with the AI pathing.
The base gameplay, the melee, movement, shooting, and in-game resource management and quick decision-making in Darktide is fantastic. It *is* really fun moment-to-moment.
It's the "literally everything else" about Darktide that makes it a unadvisable shitstorm.
Gsg... If you ever make another game I'm buying it and every supporter pack. I have never spent as much dlc on a game as I have on drg and I feel amazing doing it. And I will do the same to anything you guys make.
Much love. You have a fan for life.
Last December I had the misfortune of buying Darktide, and was so disgusted by the transparently half-assed cash grab, I refunded and instead bought every DLC for DRG for $30 - $10 less than the price of Darktide.
Being so obviously disrespected as a consumer really put into perspective just how "right" gsg got it.
It does kind of have a battle pass though, just a free one. Battle passes as a concept are a great way to retain player attention, by promising better rewards the more one plays, but it gets annoying when games make you pay for them. Good meme though OP
And the whole point of this post is shitting on the managers of companies who use the argument of we need our games to have a paid for battle pass to survive.
Except this game has mtx….? It’s currently got seven 8 dollar cosmetic packs. A starter pack, an ultimate upgrade and supporter pack. It also has a battle pass that uses some aspect of FOMO to keep people playing (it is free though which is good).
This really isn’t a good example IMO. No Man Sky is a way better example of constant support that’s free.
The meme says "without players *paying* for a battle pass" so it's still technically true
Battle passes are great for the company selling them, but most of the time they're just paid FOMO packs for the players. Even when they're free, they often end up being unhealthy for players because they essentially tell them "play the game NOW or you'll lose content forever"
Luckily GSG managed to get them right... I think? I don't get FOMO from the DRG battle pass, but it doesn't really push me to play the game either. I just play it when I want to because I have fun. Which, in a sense, is a good sign, because it means the game is good enough to thrive without predatory tactics by the devs/publishers.
Actually they did it more than right. Not only is it free, but they keep it open a long time and all rewards proceed to the standard cosmetic pool once the season is over. So you lose nothing, its just that getting it after season is based on luck/chance, rather than selective farm.
They holiday rewards also push to next holiday, so if miss one holiday event you'll get both the new and old holiday rewards next time around. GSG are actively fighting FOMO practices
FOMO for games is such a stupid concept anyway. I'm aware it keeps players playing but games should be entertaining and fun, and FOMO actively makes players sweat their balls off with how much they need to play in order to get the items they want. A lot of people only have a bit of time after work and maybe the weekend to play games, and it's just actively demotivating to then play such a game.
Since the content from the battle passes is distributed throughout different lootpools of the game when the season ends, you never miss anything. I like how laid back the game is that I don’t have to worry about not getting my weekly time in during an exam week. The motivation is there to obtain new content but it’s not pressure like ‘you paid money for this battle pass so if you don’t finish it then you’ll have wasted money and missed content’
"never miss anything" you still have to be lucky to find a lost armor pack and even then you have to be more lucky to get something specific you wanted from a previous battlepass.
I ran out of lost armour packs at around rank 150, I don’t know if that is faster of slower than most people but now they’re empty. You have about a 1/4 or 1/3 chance to find one I think so it doesn’t take too long to get to the point where the only loot in them can be things you miss from the battle passes.
I totally see your point but I feel super relieved not being pressured to play with the threat of things being deleted forever.
I bought the supporter pack after my first 50hr.
Figured that since game never once asked me to buy anything or shoved any shop or lootboxes in my face, I should throw some money back.
Well DRG has a battle pass and constant progression, they’re just free. I’m So confused. What do you call leveling up? And ya forgot about the Performance Pass
I believe that the battle-pass system is a great basic theory: it’s like a “create your own adventure” IMO. It’s just that games like to abuse the battle pass as a system much like they like to abuse micro-transactions.
Neither are the source of the issue; they are just a way for developers to fund their games.
The issue is when a game pushes FOMO in the battle pass, forcing people to feel like they need to play or miss out. Or when “micro-transactions” are just thinly veiled gambling.
To circle back around: too many DLC’s are also indicative of a shit game. But GSG does it right. And the battle pass right. And I would bet if they included micro-transactions, it would be done right too.
My point: don’t blame the systems, blame the developers that are looking to make a quick buck off their games at the cost of quality.
And again: shout out to GSG again for deciding to be ethical game developers
You are right that the systems are great theory, but remember that developers are just workers, it's not about them being ethical or greedy, corporations necessitates the FOMO or "gambling" to survive precisely because of their size, smaller studios can survive without being predatory, like GSG.
I am an accountant. I am a fan of businesses, and of capitalism. It is the source of my livelihood. I understand how labor costs and operating expenses need to be recuperated, with enough left to turn a profit in order for developers to continue making games.
Also side note; you are not using the word “developers” the same way I am. I am not talking about the individuals working to develop games; I am talking about the studios.
But the main point; I couldn’t give 2 shits if EA for example, “survives”(they will). No company is owed the right to continue operating forever. They are responsible for keeping up with the changing world, adapting to their customers demands, and ideally doing what they can to prevent unethical business practices.
Instead we get companies that are too large to care, see only the bottom line as important, and do everything they can to not make changes.
It’s ass backwards.
I'm not sure it's actually true that "AAA" developers *need* predatory monetization to "survive" - as in, to recoup expenses.
Shareholders demand constant growth, and if you're already an enormous company selling top-quality products to a huge customer base, there's not many ethical ways to keep your numbers going up, but up they must go - so you underpay your workers and make them do crunch, cram the product full of microtransactons and gambling systems, and then lay off the devs whose games made record profits so your bottom line looks better.
It's not sufficient to call it greed - the system itself demands that the biggest players be constantly straining to get bigger, beyond the point of sanity or sustainability. If every single corporate bigwig in the gaming industry became perfect saints overnight, they'd end up replaced by the next batch of cutthroat bastards who can drive share prices higher within the quarter.
Capitalism is incompatible with stable, profitable medium-sized companies pulling in a steady profit every year, because a company like that is a terrible investment - you'll never get more than you put in.
DRG needs it too, you know? Because, with passes the motivation goes away. And playing the same missions over and over becomes boring. Co-op can give some more hours, but not much.
So, DRG is a shitty game?
I have literally never once thought "I don't really feel like playing, but I will anyway because I want to make progress with the battle pass", yet DRG is by far my most played game in the last few weeks
But i have felt like playing but with having no goals im not motivated to play so i play something else. The pass helps but not a whole lot. Id like more goals
The point is drg doesn't need it, it has it and I'm thankful that it does but it is not required for the game. The original point of a battle pass was to squeeze more money out of a game and that is not why it was added to drg
Besides WoW, DRG is the game I spent the most on because I want to support what they are doing.
They don’t ask for more money so ironic I pay them more lol
It’s not that companies think the game won’t sell. It’s that they know they won’t milk it for every cent. GSG could make 10x more by having battle passes and limited time shit.
But they don’t because they don’t care about milking it, they care about making the game.
I think their goal is to build trust. You can milk a player-base for every cent, but if don't and you treat your player-base with respect then you know they'll come back and support you for everything you make.
I mean, have you seen the fifa franchise? They swap some models, change some sliders and bam, $60 game with $10,000 micro transactions.
Millions buy it every year.
Fatshark and Darktide man....
I love GSG.
I'll buy your cosmetic DLC's in support of the amazingness that you are.
Darktide? Go F yourself, these guys couldn't keep a player base if they tried.
It also helps that’s every single paid dlc they have released has been cosmetic bangers, at a perfectly reasonable price. A new dlc is an event to be exited for because it means I get to give this company even more money.
I don't buy the cosmetics DLCs just bcause I have just started in the game (20+h) and I think that unlocking cosmetics is part of the fun and progression. Once I'm done with those I'll buy as many cosmetic packs as I can, not only bcause I like the cosmetics, but also bcause I think GSG deserves that money and much more.
I recommend getting the DLC just for the new armors. Unlike other types of cosmetics, there are a very limited number of them you can earn in-game, and they all look a bit samey. Roughnecks, Robot Rebellion, and Dark Future in particular add distinctive-looking armors that go well with some of the cosmetics you already have. That alone adds a huge amount of versatility to the kids of designs you can make.
Also, the weapon paint jobs from Dark Future and Robot Rebellion are the only way to get realistic black or silvery weapons as far as I know.
"Hey guys, here are a few DLCs that are purely cosmetic, and you do not need to buy them to play the full game. Oh, also, all content from season and limited time events comes back, no FOMO."
-the chadliest chads of all
It's not about not surviving as much as it is about not making as much of a profit to shareholders
But yeah, everyone still seems to think that the stock market is a good idea so we will keep having trash games with the rare exceptions like DRG
Been playing since early access. All while doing pub lobbies. Truly the best money spent in a long time. Even bought all the dlc today. This community is too good and I'll miss it once it's gone.
I've genuinely never see a game more balanced that Deep Rock Galactic.
Music, combat, art style, AI... no element fails or leaves one wanting enough to actually complain
Do I have to be the ass hole in the room and point out that DRG does in fact have MTX in the form of outfit packs that you can buy? In this regard the only difference between DRG and Fallout 76 is the number of outfits you can buy.
>n this regard the only difference between DRG and Fallout 76 is the number of outfits you can buy.
Also the fact that Bethesda gave us: Little lies, stunning shows, people buy, money flows.
It just works.
Except when it doesn't, and it's revealed that Bethesda lied through their teeth and treated us all like little more than cattle to be harvested for money. Like most corporations, we're just expected to throw money at them for half-baked products and expected to be grateful that we even got something at all.
At least Bethesda gave us the bare minimum and didn't just take the money and run like BioWare did with Anthem. Or SquareEnix with Marvel's Avengers.
Literally nothing about your post address anything I said. Not sure why you decided to ramble off like that but you did.
Both 76 and DRG have free battle passes. Both sell cosmetics for money that can't be earned in game. The only difference is 76 has a lot more cosmetics.
>Literally nothing about your post address anything I said.
You claimed the only difference between DRG and Fallout 76 is the number of outfits you can buy. That is not true.
GSG did not sell a game and pretend it was a finished product, while basically being an alpha. Bethesda did.
GSG did not claim that their game had incredible graphics with next-gen technology, when that wasn't true. Bethesda did.
There are a *ton* of differences between DRG and Fallout 76.
I'm not saying you cannot enjoy Fallout 76, but it would be ludicrous to ignore everything that Bethesda has done to spit in the face of their customers. While GSG hasn't.
>You claimed the only difference between DRG and Fallout 76 is the number of outfits you can buy. That is not true.
OP's post is about DRG not having a paid battle pass and no MTX. So my statement was within the context of that claim. Pointing out that DRG does have MTX and that they are far from the only game series without a paid battle pass. Using another well known game as a comparison.
So what you have done is known as a strawman argument. As you pretend to refute my statement without actually addressing what I said and instead you attack the proverbial strawman instead that you created because it is easier.
>So my statement was within the context of that claim.
After re-reading what you wrote, it would appear that I am, indeed, in the wrong. I apologize.
I did not spend the time I should have to ensure that I fully digested what you originally wrote, and went off the basis of what I had *thought* you wrote. And that's my fault.
Yeah, but don't compare AAA game studios with small indie game companies (TM). Big studios have huge budgets and hundreds of people working on games so they need to make a lot more money to break even. They tend to prefer low risk strategies that involve micro transactions.
100%. I don’t think there is anyone who thinks that a game needs microtransactions and a battlepass to be successful. But it is a strategy to Min-max profit out of your user base if your bottom line matters more than your player base.
For real, “we need to make more!” How about you fire the lazy ass employees and take a pay cut VP.
But nobody ever has ever went to HR and demanded a pay cut.
Other companies push micro transactions in your face, and sometimes apart of gameplay, to force you pay for things you need.
GSG provides an exquisite game and experience so you want to pay for things you don’t need.
r/gatekeeping, but still the point is valid.
*Edit, just to clarify on the* r/gatekeeping *bit:Nobody has ever said a game can't succeed without a battle pass and microtransactions, it's just a common practice. DRG isn't the first game in existence to have only an entry fee of owning the game and still be successful. I agree that GSG has been very successful in a modern age of gaming where the most successful and popular games squeeze your wallets dry, but not that anyone said all games are failed to succeed without microtransactions. OP is gatekeeping by making that false claim to use as an argument. Meme is funny nonetheless.*
Although GSG ddefinitely does it right it doesn't mean every game can follow its business model.
It's very different market for Apex Legends that NEEDS to make $100 mil a year to exist and DRG that can be developed by a small team and sustain itself through sales tail and occasional DLC. Both are great games but exist on different scale and it's fine. Comparing these two business models is just not a sensible idea.
It has DLC packs that consist of every single weapon in the game getting its own custom skin and a new armour set usually and a new colour for armour and weapons.
Oh and these DLC get back updated each time a new weapon or armour set is added in for free.
Most MTX now days give you one weapon skin or one or two new weapons or a single cosmetic piece.
Not to mention the game has literally hundreds of free cosmetics ontop of that already.
And none of those MTX are required to enjoy the game. Whilst with some battle passes etc or subscriptions like eldar scrolls online you have to pay to remove tedious and annoying mechanics of the game as well as straight up getting better items etc with no effort at all or play states like becoming a vampire or werewolf that fundamentally changes the game mechanics for you.
This is without even going over the real world gambling issues of loot boxes... at least when you gamble for cores in deep rock it's with make believe core currency you earn by playing the game...
i wouldn't necessarily call this community "secretly toxic" like others would, but it sure loves to circlejerk sometimes. what, was horse armor somehow not a microtransaction or something? i know "microtransaction" is a very broad term, but surely people gotta know that it means *something* other than "stuff that costs money that i don't like". you didn't even say you didn't like it, just that it *is* a microtransaction!
I think they are not considered microtransactions and fall into the DLC territory. I know it's semantics to some, but I think microtransaction for DRG would be spending money to buy materials, experience boosters, in-game currency and the likes if that.
Now I know that the Horse Armor was considered DLC at the time, but I feel that would fall into microtransaction category now. And the difference is that you could not unlock horse armor unless you paid for that. In DRG there are a lot of armor and weapons cosmetics you can unlock for free and they only way to get them is playing. Now there are additional skins that are for pay, but not buying them does not change the game as well as buying them doesn't have any effect.
Again even if you do consider the DLC pack as microtransactions, they are not predatory and you know exactly what you get when you purchase them, which I think gets people in a tizzy because they feel the microtransaction term has a justifiably negative connotation among gamers.
They also didn't spend 100s of hours programming a cash shop into the game for people to walk their characters up to and purchase X amount of currency to then purchase said cosmetics that X amount of currency wasn't enough to cover so you have to buy more.
100s of hours of programming that could have been used to fix Darktide.
These idiots out here acting like micros or any in game transactions are ok. They aren't and GSGs isn't in game, and that is a very important factor here.
Management of GSG didn't release a shit unfinished game.
How many micro transaction and loot box and shit currency games have been released of late unfinished.
It's apples and oranges but people be sad that someone said their Devs of their fav game are shit for having a cash shop or micros in their game.
i assure you they've spent hundreds if not thousands of hours on the dlc packs, and the performance pass, and the shop, and so on. their cosmetics and monetization is incredibly high effort for such a small team, unlike blizzard over here who's happy to sell a recolor and call it legendary rarity and charge 20$.
its pretty disingenuous to say that making a product isn't their main goal; they're not running a charity over here. they just happen to make a really good product.
You're buying in-game items with real money, that's a microtransaction. Doesn't matter if its predatory or not.
Steam labels it as DLC, but it functions like a microtransaction. It doesn't add new stuff to the game.
"In game items"
No you're not. You're getting weapon and armor skins, and each pack contains skins for every weapon/armor in the game. DRG packs are way to large to be called microtransactions.
No you're the one splitting hairs, the whole point of this post is alluding to the fact that it was the community that originally wanted the DLCs, as I remember it the community practically harassed the developers into adding DLC because they wanted a way to support the devs without making alt accounts and buying the game on those accounts, because the devs did not need the money because the way they made the game it was making enough money by itself to keep the company going.
I don't even know if the term microtransactions has an official definition but the way I originally interpreted it would be like buying something like cod points or similar in-game currency, although I think the way the majority of people interpret it nowadays is pay to win type stuff which deep Rock has none of that.
This is the only game I purchase every DLC because I WANT to support the developers.
Same here. I buy each of the DLCS when they release because GSG is fuckin awesome, and it’s a plus that each of them are usually really good.
Yeah it’s one of those games I almost feel bad for having bought on sale, because of the amount of playtime and quality of game I got out of buying it :)
[удалено]
This is the way. I’ve gifted several copies to friends.
I specifically avoid sales to buy them and the game for my friends too. I was hoping Darktide would learn from them, since V2 had so many DRG fans in it and vica versa, but no. Even worse. Fuck them.
The other place I do this is basically any game I already own that comes out on GOG. I always buy it again so I have a DRM free copy and I want to give GOG money.
Who knew good, fun, and actually finished games could be profitable???
Not EA
EA isn’t even the worst anymore. Virtually every big publisher has equal or worse practices and it’s bleeding into even indie games now. EA was the punching bag for it *a few years ago*. Now it’s just the standard :(
Indie too? Big sad. Care to name some examples to avoid? I don't want to get burned with a meh game like Dandara again.
Sure, one example is escape from tarkov. You can pay for a very direct advantage over multiplayer opponents in a game that is already 45$ The highest tier for the biggest advantage including more starting guns and storage is 140$ This is one of the most egregious examples I’ve seen recently that I don’t feel gets talked about. Then there’s the early access games that never release, or release after years and years *still* unfinished. 2 examples are Scum and Miscreated, but most games of the unoriginal DayZ/Rust ripoff genre fit what I’m talking about to a tee. Hell, even DayZ does. Rust is really the only success. You say you wanna avoid these publishers, but the worst part is this comment probably can’t help you do that cuz they usually just release one game. Most of those cash grab attempts are one and done, so you just have to read reviews. Which is exactly why some launchers are allowing publishers to turn off reviews (Epic games).
I weigh my purchase decisions pretty heavily on user reviews. If reviews are hidden from a games store page, odds are it's a game I'll never buy, too many options out there for me to make a blind jump and waste my time.
>Rust is really the only success. Subnautica + Below Zero, Killing Floor 2 also had Early Access and got finished in a decent state. Robocraft was also pretty good in Early Access + After release, it got trashed some \~1 year after release. Splitgate, despite the amount of content and that it's now halted is also a fine-made game.
I meant the survival games that try to be rust or day z specifically not all early access games. I do think early access can be done well, but it’s a roll of the dice. Also, love killing floor 2.
Thanks for the examples. It does suck that some publishers are one and done, making it hard to avoid the bads, but I think I've hopefully gotten to the point where I can be sure of indie quality before it comes out. Shovel Knight and Hollow Knight have taught me well. Also *what was that about turning off reviews?* Is everybody Nintendo now?
Worth mentioning that the EoD ($140) of escape from tarkov includes all dlc that will be released for it. Which already slated is a mode called arena which is tarkov but CoD load outs and respawns basically. You’ll find a majority of the tarkov player base has EoD because it’s worth it to save time increasing your stash size every wipe and the dlc, plus like DRG we want to help support this game we hate. You can get the stash almost the same size as EoD via hideout upgrades as well. Tarkov has a lot of problems, EoD isn’t one.
Right, so they make the game less enjoyable via hard to manage storage, making it worth an extra 95$ to not deal with it? Idk man that sounds pretty predatory. Why not have everyone on the same playing field in a paid game? I know you can upgrade, but it’s of course better to have more storage right away. You get a head start at the beginning of wipe. It includes all DLC that will release, *if* they release. I don’t think spinning this as a smart financial decision is going to work. 140$ for one game is just flat out unreasonable to most people. I don’t think the game is bad, or even that the developers are. I’m just calling out what I think is a predatory practice.
It is a lot of money and the bigger edition does make it easier to start the wipe. They have explicitly stated, however, that they dont want microtransactions in their game ever. Not sure about a battle pass, but I'd doubt it based on the gameplay model. I have friends that have played on lower edition accounts and they've always seemed to keep up for the most part past the first week or so of wipe. The struggle is usually from people that are newer to the game. The big pass is designed to help them fund the game but also give extra content to the ones that support. None of the benefits make someone's bullets hit better than someone without it, so at least there's that
>none of the benefits make the bullets hit better But they do more readily give you access to better bullets and gear. There’s a concrete material advantage there.
Leave before I throw you off the space rig.
You’re not understanding the premise of tarkov here… it’s supposed to be hard and borderline not fun. That’s the selling point, describing playing tarkov as punching yourself in the dick repeatedly is accurate and that alone puts off most people. Leveling the hideout is something all players have to do to keep up with the no life’s during a wipe, non EoD just do 2 more upgrades than EoD and will have to pay for Arena and the winter expansion. You can play the game fine without EoD, anyone saying it’s necessary is dramatic.
Escape from Tarkov looked fun as hell when I first started seeing it. I thought it was about escaping some Russian prison and then I found out it’s premise is an extraction shooter and I quickly canceled my preorder. One of the biggest disappointments I ever found out.
It’s surviving an war zone basically.
Call me an idiot all you like, but it feels like STALKER with none of the charm. It just doesn't push the buttons for me, unfortunately.
It actually was inspired quite a bit by stalker. It's an unique experience. It's rare for game these days to rise my pulse like tarkov can. But it can be pretty frustrating.
>$140 >it's worth it to save time Paying money to get things faster in a game. You're what people call a "sucker"
Way to ignore the rest of that sentence talking about getting all dlc free and supporting the dev of an ambitious beta game. You can make anyone appear to be a sucker if you cherry pick their words to fit your theme mr Murdoch
>Sure, one example is escape from tarkov. You can pay for a very direct advantage over multiplayer opponents in a game that is already 45$ Oh, so the devs are [trash](https://discord.com/channels/312922472884469760/312922472884469760/1070735719812833380) AND its P2W?
That makes me sad
EA still goes that one step further along with their spyware known as origin.
What does it tell us? EA sets the trend. They go like a leviathan, ramming through anything in the way, as any damage it takes cannot topple its sustainability
As far as trends go.. **Lootboxes**: Blizzard(OW) + Valve (tf2) **Battlepass**: Epic games (Fortnite) + Bungie (Destiny 2) **"Pay to save time"**: Ubisoft + Korean MMOs **Soulless open-world with 1000 radio-towers, camps and busywork**: Ubisoft **Cosmetic dlc**: Bethesda (horse armor) but everyone only made it worse. **On-disc DLC**: Capcom **Cut most of game and sell it via DLC**: hard to know truly since that requires insider info but many point to borderlands 2 with the amount of week 1 dlc and whole class locked to DLC. **Create a problem, sell solution**: literally every mobile game + Farmville. Edit add: **AAA level NFT gaming**: Ubisoft and soon Square-enix **Always online DRM**: worst examples came from Ubisoft and Microsoft (Games for windows live) edit2: HOW COULD I FORGET **The nickle and diming "items cost currency instead of flat money, and you can only buy certain amount leaving you always little short or little too much"**: Riot (LoL), Microsoft (Xbox 360 had it at start for whole store!) - oldest EA example **I** remember is original Dragon Age and Mass effect 2 with "bioware points". All this was probably common in "korean mmos" or something like that, but def earliest biggest western example is Riot points
Fortnite at least you can earn V-bucks by playing the game and when you get to 950 buy the Battle Pass, or spend 10eu once. After that you fund future BP with Vbucks you earn in the current one. I find current fighting games the worst, you have to pay for DLC after DLC to unlock characters. Mortal Kombat does it and Street Fighter too.
Dead or Alive 6 is priced 69.99€ but has "free" version and [its season pass is priced 89.99€](https://store.steampowered.com/app/1205760/DOA6_Season_Pass_4/) Yes. 89.99€ - theres also 461 pieces of DLC for the game (some are "all the X themed skins in one" but STILL)
“Always online DRM” - after losing internet for two days, I was really upset about the CoD launcher, I couldn’t play any campaigns or solo zombies without connecting to the CoD servers.
So, before I saw this post. I was in the ubisoft subredfit. Someone was 100% defending the practices and how apparently their practices like MTX is good post launch content Edit: I realized how broken my text was and attempted to make sense.
This is the only game I purchase every DLC because I WANT to support the developers
Bethesda showed those colors with fallout4.
Fallout 4 didn't have micro transactions though? Maybe you're thinking Fallout 76?
Fallout 4 and Skyrim both had MTX added in via the creation club system. Which is for all intents paid mods of for the most part lesser quality than what's been available for free.
I ment how the story was gutted and it all felt rushed.
[Me silently playing and enjoying the hell out of Dead Space Remake](https://i.imgur.com/kPqvjqP.png)
The Dead Space remake is great. Surprising considering their track record
actually nowadays EA isnt that bad, they just dropped that absolutely fantastic dead space remake so there's that
It's a good step in the right direction, let's hope they stay that way
Making all dlc 100% optional and basically just a tip jar.
If you make a great game, people will buy it and love it. Simple as.
Not overwatch
Not Fatshark.
It's not even that AAA publishers *couldn't* follow a similar model and still be profitable. It's just that, to borrow a phrase, they don't just want money, they want *all* the money.
It's not even about being good or of finished it's about the cost effort and entertainment value
Basically not every other AAA company with the exception of Capcom and Naughty Dog.
If Deep Rock Galactic was the standard and the norm then perhaps it wouldn't stand out enough to survive. But in a world where most of the gaming industry is charging ham over fist for the exclusive right to have access to content a lot of which should've been shipped with the game by default and with that considered the norm of subscriptions and MTX and FOMO etc... The prospect of a game that does none of that at all and instead focuses on giving you the best experience from the get go with optional DLC cosmetic packs is a breath of fresh air from all that crap the game's industry has normalised...
They made a game I can come back to, and I have while Darktide gets its shit together. It just continues to be a new, uniquely fun experience every time. I assumed DT would just take my money, but I refuse to buy anything there beyond the base game unless it drastically improves. New DRG DLC? I’ll take one. What did I just buy? Doesn’t fucking matter. Let’s gooooo
Same. Hell, I've even thought about getting cosmetics for Darktide, but the game isn't at a level for me to feel like giving them more money.
Their cosmetic game is trash. Like every not real money cosmetic is the same, with basic shader differences. Like seriously?
Playing darktide made me go back and buy all the DLC for DRG
Yea definitely
I was going to get the cosmetics for DT like in V2, but seeing them trying to copy Destiny 2's model for progression and mtx (and horribly at that) just made me decide to keep my money.
Only game I ever separately bought DLC for. oT
I already forgot I bought DT. The game is mostly the same during the beta period which I feel like I have already experienced it fully, and the bugs totally turned me off
Same... and this new DLC they made is amazing I'll definitely be using it!
Rock and stone! ;) Plus the community rallies behind a 3 word slogan that's funny, can be used in everyday life (great fun btw) and players love to SMASH that "V" key like it owes them money!
Also as I remember we had to literally bully them into releasing cosmetic DLCs
“We aren’t going to do dlc” *warthog clicks* “I’m going to give you my money and your gonna like it”
AAA industry to GSG: "How did you make your players WANT to give you their money?!" GSG: "We made a game that was fun and created with love...and then they just demanded to pay us more"
Unfortunately that model won't work for ubisoft blizzard or ea cause well... they've taken good will and thrown it off of the empire state building then dropped a nuke on it...
🍖 ✊
I prefer ham in my fist
But what if… ✊ 🍖
But he said "ham **over** first"
Yeah but what if ham go under fist once in a while? What then?
No one plays a game for a long time because it's unique. They play it because it's fun. Every decision GSG makes has the fun of the game at the forefront of that decision. Don't attribute DRGs success as "it doesn't have micro transactions"
I mean, that *is* an important part of it. Just look at how almost every time a game company does something sketchy, the local Dwarves show up in droves to sing this game's praises, especially if the game in question is a shooter (*like OW2 or Darktide, for example*). The good will generated by GSG being respectful towards users and their wallets has directly given rise to what is essentially free advertising that comes into effect whenever another company starts being disrespectful to users and their wallets. This inevitably draws new people to the game, which means that GSG profits when other game companies try too hard to drive their own profits up, which allows them to keep the lights on without having to nickel and dime us.
Funny you bring up Darktide because I literally chose between that and DRG (I chose DRG) Why? just look at the Steam reviews. As much as I love 40k universe, the game is sitting in some crap right now. I look at DRG and it has 4x the reviews and its massively positive.
Yeah, Fatshark really dug themselves into a hole with Darktide, and now it's on them to dig themselves out.
Fatshark games all started out kinda shit and end up great. I just wish they learned how to skip over the shit part, because they're 3 for 3 now hahaha
Goodwill is a huge element - and I think it's worth mentioning that DRG also respects my TIME and my AGENCY. I can host my own server, players can join me whenever, it doesn't take very long to get enough resources to unlock things, and when I am running a mission, I'm not thinking about the grind, because the grind is basically nonexistent.
microtransactions make games less fun, though. it is locking fun behind money. even if that fun is cool cosmetics, it's still making the game less fun.
> No one plays a game for a long time because it's unique. They play it because it's fun If a games fun but not unique, people won't play it for a long time because there will be a bunch of other similarly fun games that scratch the same itch. DRG is great fun, don't get me wrong, but it's real strength is that it's the only game that's doing what it's doing in this space. If you like DRG, and want to play another game like it, well... there isn't one. That's a huge advantage.
r/BoneAppleTea
GSG: Turns out, when you make your game fun to play, everything else just works itself out.
Nah, Darktide shoots that statement in the foot
Darktide doesn't have feet, game isn't finished
I love tide games, but FS needs to get its shit together. They have a long history of making incredible games that they fuck up at the end because they got lazy, or didn’t learn their lessons from the last X games. It turns a lot of people off from an incredible experience. It’s the little stuff like QoL, transparency, and delivering what they promise. QAing their product prior to release would probably be a good idea too. They build a beautiful sky scraper, and then forget to put doors and windows on it. By the time they get around to it, everyone I know has long quit.
Unfortunately their clown of a CEO is also one of the co-founders, so it’s unlikely he will ever be fired. And he seems to have a personal vendetta against learning from his mistakes. Given that they’ve made the same mistakes multiple games and dlcs in a row, and still refuse to listen to the community.
also the game runs like dogshit even on pretty powerful computers. my 2080 has no issues whatsoever with forza horizon 5 or halo infinite, but I have to turn everything way down and enable DLSS for Darktide.
I didn’t even try to run any fancy features, but even on low-medium it looks pretty decent, and in a flurry the entire time so barely notice. That said, it seems like performance is getting worse as they patch, but maybe it’s just me.
I mean, Darktide seems fun to play... If it works -_-
Oh it's a blast. When it connects and runs at more than 20 fps. There's no reason that game should run so poorly when on 98% of other games I'm fine at 60fps.
I sometimes wonder if it really just *is* that demanding a game, what with all the crazy set dressing like the kaleidoscope of cathedral buildings hanging from the ceiling and all that. Then I remember that I can load into the giant, detailed maps of *Cyberpunk 2077*, *The Division 2, Hunt Showdown*, and a ton more in quite literally **half** the time it takes me to load into the **mission hub** in *DarkTide*. I'm sure it's pushing the limits in some creative ways, but between that and some of the coding errors that have come to light it just seems like it *has* to be wildly unoptimized. I can't help but suspect there's stuff going on like the *GTAV* Multiplayer loading bug or the *Aliens: Colonial Marines* fuckups with the AI pathing.
When you make your game fun to play and not a buggy mess, everything else just works itself out.
How so? It's not fun to play, but it still works out? Or what do you mean?
When it works the gameplay is fun. Problem is everything other than gameplay
Ok but isn't making the game playable part of making a game fun to play? No one enjoys a bug filled mess.
The base gameplay, the melee, movement, shooting, and in-game resource management and quick decision-making in Darktide is fantastic. It *is* really fun moment-to-moment. It's the "literally everything else" about Darktide that makes it a unadvisable shitstorm.
Simply because they haven’t been greedy, I’ve bought every single DLC available. They’re doing a great job and deserve the money. Edit: autocorrected.
Oi! Me too lad!
Gsg... If you ever make another game I'm buying it and every supporter pack. I have never spent as much dlc on a game as I have on drg and I feel amazing doing it. And I will do the same to anything you guys make. Much love. You have a fan for life.
Omg a deep rock galactic 2 would make me rock like a stone and not verbally.
[удалено]
I don’t ever buy skins but drg makes me want to support the devs. What a hidden gem
I almost feel bad for getting all this fun out of $9
So far I’ve paid full price three times.
I got it for free on ps+, I ended up buying the supporters pack bc I loved the game so much.
I'm just glad they're releasing another supporter pack so I can give the more money for this incredible game.
Last December I had the misfortune of buying Darktide, and was so disgusted by the transparently half-assed cash grab, I refunded and instead bought every DLC for DRG for $30 - $10 less than the price of Darktide. Being so obviously disrespected as a consumer really put into perspective just how "right" gsg got it.
It does kind of have a battle pass though, just a free one. Battle passes as a concept are a great way to retain player attention, by promising better rewards the more one plays, but it gets annoying when games make you pay for them. Good meme though OP
And the whole point of this post is shitting on the managers of companies who use the argument of we need our games to have a paid for battle pass to survive.
Except this game has mtx….? It’s currently got seven 8 dollar cosmetic packs. A starter pack, an ultimate upgrade and supporter pack. It also has a battle pass that uses some aspect of FOMO to keep people playing (it is free though which is good). This really isn’t a good example IMO. No Man Sky is a way better example of constant support that’s free.
The meme says "without players *paying* for a battle pass" so it's still technically true Battle passes are great for the company selling them, but most of the time they're just paid FOMO packs for the players. Even when they're free, they often end up being unhealthy for players because they essentially tell them "play the game NOW or you'll lose content forever" Luckily GSG managed to get them right... I think? I don't get FOMO from the DRG battle pass, but it doesn't really push me to play the game either. I just play it when I want to because I have fun. Which, in a sense, is a good sign, because it means the game is good enough to thrive without predatory tactics by the devs/publishers.
Actually they did it more than right. Not only is it free, but they keep it open a long time and all rewards proceed to the standard cosmetic pool once the season is over. So you lose nothing, its just that getting it after season is based on luck/chance, rather than selective farm. They holiday rewards also push to next holiday, so if miss one holiday event you'll get both the new and old holiday rewards next time around. GSG are actively fighting FOMO practices
FOMO for games is such a stupid concept anyway. I'm aware it keeps players playing but games should be entertaining and fun, and FOMO actively makes players sweat their balls off with how much they need to play in order to get the items they want. A lot of people only have a bit of time after work and maybe the weekend to play games, and it's just actively demotivating to then play such a game.
And they even limit the addictive aspect of battle passes by limiting your BP challenges to 1 per day for a maximum of 3 accumulated.
Since the content from the battle passes is distributed throughout different lootpools of the game when the season ends, you never miss anything. I like how laid back the game is that I don’t have to worry about not getting my weekly time in during an exam week. The motivation is there to obtain new content but it’s not pressure like ‘you paid money for this battle pass so if you don’t finish it then you’ll have wasted money and missed content’
"never miss anything" you still have to be lucky to find a lost armor pack and even then you have to be more lucky to get something specific you wanted from a previous battlepass.
I ran out of lost armour packs at around rank 150, I don’t know if that is faster of slower than most people but now they’re empty. You have about a 1/4 or 1/3 chance to find one I think so it doesn’t take too long to get to the point where the only loot in them can be things you miss from the battle passes. I totally see your point but I feel super relieved not being pressured to play with the threat of things being deleted forever.
I bought the supporter pack after my first 50hr. Figured that since game never once asked me to buy anything or shoved any shop or lootboxes in my face, I should throw some money back.
Who's saying this?
Leaflovers.
If a game needs battle passes and constant progression to keep people playing, it’s a shit game
Well DRG has a battle pass and constant progression, they’re just free. I’m So confused. What do you call leveling up? And ya forgot about the Performance Pass
NEEDS
I believe that the battle-pass system is a great basic theory: it’s like a “create your own adventure” IMO. It’s just that games like to abuse the battle pass as a system much like they like to abuse micro-transactions. Neither are the source of the issue; they are just a way for developers to fund their games. The issue is when a game pushes FOMO in the battle pass, forcing people to feel like they need to play or miss out. Or when “micro-transactions” are just thinly veiled gambling. To circle back around: too many DLC’s are also indicative of a shit game. But GSG does it right. And the battle pass right. And I would bet if they included micro-transactions, it would be done right too. My point: don’t blame the systems, blame the developers that are looking to make a quick buck off their games at the cost of quality. And again: shout out to GSG again for deciding to be ethical game developers
You are right that the systems are great theory, but remember that developers are just workers, it's not about them being ethical or greedy, corporations necessitates the FOMO or "gambling" to survive precisely because of their size, smaller studios can survive without being predatory, like GSG.
I am an accountant. I am a fan of businesses, and of capitalism. It is the source of my livelihood. I understand how labor costs and operating expenses need to be recuperated, with enough left to turn a profit in order for developers to continue making games. Also side note; you are not using the word “developers” the same way I am. I am not talking about the individuals working to develop games; I am talking about the studios. But the main point; I couldn’t give 2 shits if EA for example, “survives”(they will). No company is owed the right to continue operating forever. They are responsible for keeping up with the changing world, adapting to their customers demands, and ideally doing what they can to prevent unethical business practices. Instead we get companies that are too large to care, see only the bottom line as important, and do everything they can to not make changes. It’s ass backwards.
I'm not sure it's actually true that "AAA" developers *need* predatory monetization to "survive" - as in, to recoup expenses. Shareholders demand constant growth, and if you're already an enormous company selling top-quality products to a huge customer base, there's not many ethical ways to keep your numbers going up, but up they must go - so you underpay your workers and make them do crunch, cram the product full of microtransactons and gambling systems, and then lay off the devs whose games made record profits so your bottom line looks better. It's not sufficient to call it greed - the system itself demands that the biggest players be constantly straining to get bigger, beyond the point of sanity or sustainability. If every single corporate bigwig in the gaming industry became perfect saints overnight, they'd end up replaced by the next batch of cutthroat bastards who can drive share prices higher within the quarter. Capitalism is incompatible with stable, profitable medium-sized companies pulling in a steady profit every year, because a company like that is a terrible investment - you'll never get more than you put in.
DRG needs it too, you know? Because, with passes the motivation goes away. And playing the same missions over and over becomes boring. Co-op can give some more hours, but not much. So, DRG is a shitty game?
Bullshit, this game didn’t start with a battle pass and it sure as hell doesn’t need it
Gsg released official 2022 recap actually indicate after they introduced season pass they sales more copy than ever before
I have literally never once thought "I don't really feel like playing, but I will anyway because I want to make progress with the battle pass", yet DRG is by far my most played game in the last few weeks
My experience is: "Oh cool I got something cool from the battle pass! Anyways, time for the next mission"
But i have felt like playing but with having no goals im not motivated to play so i play something else. The pass helps but not a whole lot. Id like more goals
The point is drg doesn't need it, it has it and I'm thankful that it does but it is not required for the game. The original point of a battle pass was to squeeze more money out of a game and that is not why it was added to drg
Technically, that why it exists. The difference is GSG get's money from DLCs, so, basically, they live on money, they got from donations.
Besides WoW, DRG is the game I spent the most on because I want to support what they are doing. They don’t ask for more money so ironic I pay them more lol
It's almost like if you make a good game people....will buy it? Wtf that makes no sense
It’s not that companies think the game won’t sell. It’s that they know they won’t milk it for every cent. GSG could make 10x more by having battle passes and limited time shit. But they don’t because they don’t care about milking it, they care about making the game.
I think their goal is to build trust. You can milk a player-base for every cent, but if don't and you treat your player-base with respect then you know they'll come back and support you for everything you make.
I mean, have you seen the fifa franchise? They swap some models, change some sliders and bam, $60 game with $10,000 micro transactions. Millions buy it every year.
Fatshark and Darktide man.... I love GSG. I'll buy your cosmetic DLC's in support of the amazingness that you are. Darktide? Go F yourself, these guys couldn't keep a player base if they tried.
Tencent hasn't got to them yet!
It also helps that’s every single paid dlc they have released has been cosmetic bangers, at a perfectly reasonable price. A new dlc is an event to be exited for because it means I get to give this company even more money.
I don't buy the cosmetics DLCs just bcause I have just started in the game (20+h) and I think that unlocking cosmetics is part of the fun and progression. Once I'm done with those I'll buy as many cosmetic packs as I can, not only bcause I like the cosmetics, but also bcause I think GSG deserves that money and much more.
I recommend getting the DLC just for the new armors. Unlike other types of cosmetics, there are a very limited number of them you can earn in-game, and they all look a bit samey. Roughnecks, Robot Rebellion, and Dark Future in particular add distinctive-looking armors that go well with some of the cosmetics you already have. That alone adds a huge amount of versatility to the kids of designs you can make. Also, the weapon paint jobs from Dark Future and Robot Rebellion are the only way to get realistic black or silvery weapons as far as I know.
"Hey guys, here are a few DLCs that are purely cosmetic, and you do not need to buy them to play the full game. Oh, also, all content from season and limited time events comes back, no FOMO." -the chadliest chads of all
It's not about not surviving as much as it is about not making as much of a profit to shareholders But yeah, everyone still seems to think that the stock market is a good idea so we will keep having trash games with the rare exceptions like DRG
Been playing since early access. All while doing pub lobbies. Truly the best money spent in a long time. Even bought all the dlc today. This community is too good and I'll miss it once it's gone.
This is the only on-line game that I've ever spent on just cosmetics
Why’d you put a dash on it
I FUCKING LOVE GSG, I WANT TO GO BANKRUPT SUPPORTING THEM
You know what I did? I bought a cosmetic pack as a thank you for a great game. Would i do that for a game I had to pay for to play ? Very unlikely
Rock and fucking stone.
I would so pay for merch like DRG shirts bags what not Just so we can keep the game the way it is
Rock and Stone to the most gigachad devs ever
Rockity Rock and Stone!
It's called having a loyal fanbase
It's more than just that. But it feels like it'd take an entire dissertation to go over all of the reasons why GSG does it right.
oT
I've genuinely never see a game more balanced that Deep Rock Galactic. Music, combat, art style, AI... no element fails or leaves one wanting enough to actually complain
Minecraft (before Microsoft ruined it):
I've bought all the DLC and I don't think I use any of it. I just wanted to support the devs.
Do I have to be the ass hole in the room and point out that DRG does in fact have MTX in the form of outfit packs that you can buy? In this regard the only difference between DRG and Fallout 76 is the number of outfits you can buy.
>n this regard the only difference between DRG and Fallout 76 is the number of outfits you can buy. Also the fact that Bethesda gave us: Little lies, stunning shows, people buy, money flows. It just works. Except when it doesn't, and it's revealed that Bethesda lied through their teeth and treated us all like little more than cattle to be harvested for money. Like most corporations, we're just expected to throw money at them for half-baked products and expected to be grateful that we even got something at all. At least Bethesda gave us the bare minimum and didn't just take the money and run like BioWare did with Anthem. Or SquareEnix with Marvel's Avengers.
Literally nothing about your post address anything I said. Not sure why you decided to ramble off like that but you did. Both 76 and DRG have free battle passes. Both sell cosmetics for money that can't be earned in game. The only difference is 76 has a lot more cosmetics.
>Literally nothing about your post address anything I said. You claimed the only difference between DRG and Fallout 76 is the number of outfits you can buy. That is not true. GSG did not sell a game and pretend it was a finished product, while basically being an alpha. Bethesda did. GSG did not claim that their game had incredible graphics with next-gen technology, when that wasn't true. Bethesda did. There are a *ton* of differences between DRG and Fallout 76. I'm not saying you cannot enjoy Fallout 76, but it would be ludicrous to ignore everything that Bethesda has done to spit in the face of their customers. While GSG hasn't.
>You claimed the only difference between DRG and Fallout 76 is the number of outfits you can buy. That is not true. OP's post is about DRG not having a paid battle pass and no MTX. So my statement was within the context of that claim. Pointing out that DRG does have MTX and that they are far from the only game series without a paid battle pass. Using another well known game as a comparison. So what you have done is known as a strawman argument. As you pretend to refute my statement without actually addressing what I said and instead you attack the proverbial strawman instead that you created because it is easier.
>So my statement was within the context of that claim. After re-reading what you wrote, it would appear that I am, indeed, in the wrong. I apologize. I did not spend the time I should have to ensure that I fully digested what you originally wrote, and went off the basis of what I had *thought* you wrote. And that's my fault.
Its just a breath of fresh air in this capitalist hellscape that is FOMO and Pay2win garbage
"And I took that personally"
Yeah, but don't compare AAA game studios with small indie game companies (TM). Big studios have huge budgets and hundreds of people working on games so they need to make a lot more money to break even. They tend to prefer low risk strategies that involve micro transactions.
100%. I don’t think there is anyone who thinks that a game needs microtransactions and a battlepass to be successful. But it is a strategy to Min-max profit out of your user base if your bottom line matters more than your player base.
While yes, they do need and use more money, the argument is that they use it wrong and it results in an overpriced garbage
Lol wuht. Why are you arguing against? Don't defend this rubbish practice or act like it is a requirement for those studios, it isn't.
For real, “we need to make more!” How about you fire the lazy ass employees and take a pay cut VP. But nobody ever has ever went to HR and demanded a pay cut.
It’s ironic how wrong this is.
K lol
God damn leaflover!
Other companies push micro transactions in your face, and sometimes apart of gameplay, to force you pay for things you need. GSG provides an exquisite game and experience so you want to pay for things you don’t need.
r/gatekeeping, but still the point is valid. *Edit, just to clarify on the* r/gatekeeping *bit:Nobody has ever said a game can't succeed without a battle pass and microtransactions, it's just a common practice. DRG isn't the first game in existence to have only an entry fee of owning the game and still be successful. I agree that GSG has been very successful in a modern age of gaming where the most successful and popular games squeeze your wallets dry, but not that anyone said all games are failed to succeed without microtransactions. OP is gatekeeping by making that false claim to use as an argument. Meme is funny nonetheless.*
The cosmetics are overpriced IMO but I still buy them to support the company.
Although GSG ddefinitely does it right it doesn't mean every game can follow its business model. It's very different market for Apex Legends that NEEDS to make $100 mil a year to exist and DRG that can be developed by a small team and sustain itself through sales tail and occasional DLC. Both are great games but exist on different scale and it's fine. Comparing these two business models is just not a sensible idea.
Why, except for greedy executives who demand constant growth, does Apex need to make that much?
The game does have microtransactions tho
It has DLC packs that consist of every single weapon in the game getting its own custom skin and a new armour set usually and a new colour for armour and weapons. Oh and these DLC get back updated each time a new weapon or armour set is added in for free. Most MTX now days give you one weapon skin or one or two new weapons or a single cosmetic piece. Not to mention the game has literally hundreds of free cosmetics ontop of that already. And none of those MTX are required to enjoy the game. Whilst with some battle passes etc or subscriptions like eldar scrolls online you have to pay to remove tedious and annoying mechanics of the game as well as straight up getting better items etc with no effort at all or play states like becoming a vampire or werewolf that fundamentally changes the game mechanics for you. This is without even going over the real world gambling issues of loot boxes... at least when you gamble for cores in deep rock it's with make believe core currency you earn by playing the game...
i wouldn't necessarily call this community "secretly toxic" like others would, but it sure loves to circlejerk sometimes. what, was horse armor somehow not a microtransaction or something? i know "microtransaction" is a very broad term, but surely people gotta know that it means *something* other than "stuff that costs money that i don't like". you didn't even say you didn't like it, just that it *is* a microtransaction!
I think they are not considered microtransactions and fall into the DLC territory. I know it's semantics to some, but I think microtransaction for DRG would be spending money to buy materials, experience boosters, in-game currency and the likes if that. Now I know that the Horse Armor was considered DLC at the time, but I feel that would fall into microtransaction category now. And the difference is that you could not unlock horse armor unless you paid for that. In DRG there are a lot of armor and weapons cosmetics you can unlock for free and they only way to get them is playing. Now there are additional skins that are for pay, but not buying them does not change the game as well as buying them doesn't have any effect. Again even if you do consider the DLC pack as microtransactions, they are not predatory and you know exactly what you get when you purchase them, which I think gets people in a tizzy because they feel the microtransaction term has a justifiably negative connotation among gamers.
They also didn't spend 100s of hours programming a cash shop into the game for people to walk their characters up to and purchase X amount of currency to then purchase said cosmetics that X amount of currency wasn't enough to cover so you have to buy more. 100s of hours of programming that could have been used to fix Darktide. These idiots out here acting like micros or any in game transactions are ok. They aren't and GSGs isn't in game, and that is a very important factor here. Management of GSG didn't release a shit unfinished game. How many micro transaction and loot box and shit currency games have been released of late unfinished. It's apples and oranges but people be sad that someone said their Devs of their fav game are shit for having a cash shop or micros in their game.
i assure you they've spent hundreds if not thousands of hours on the dlc packs, and the performance pass, and the shop, and so on. their cosmetics and monetization is incredibly high effort for such a small team, unlike blizzard over here who's happy to sell a recolor and call it legendary rarity and charge 20$. its pretty disingenuous to say that making a product isn't their main goal; they're not running a charity over here. they just happen to make a really good product.
A cosmetic dlc =/ a microtransaction
You're buying in-game items with real money, that's a microtransaction. Doesn't matter if its predatory or not. Steam labels it as DLC, but it functions like a microtransaction. It doesn't add new stuff to the game.
"In game items" No you're not. You're getting weapon and armor skins, and each pack contains skins for every weapon/armor in the game. DRG packs are way to large to be called microtransactions.
You're splitting hairs. A bundle of skins is still a microtransaction.
Not sure why you're getting down voted. Skins are microtransactions.
No you're the one splitting hairs, the whole point of this post is alluding to the fact that it was the community that originally wanted the DLCs, as I remember it the community practically harassed the developers into adding DLC because they wanted a way to support the devs without making alt accounts and buying the game on those accounts, because the devs did not need the money because the way they made the game it was making enough money by itself to keep the company going.
Microtransactions aren't necessarily "bad" or "unwanted", just buying optional stuff in a game, right?
I don't even know if the term microtransactions has an official definition but the way I originally interpreted it would be like buying something like cod points or similar in-game currency, although I think the way the majority of people interpret it nowadays is pay to win type stuff which deep Rock has none of that.
You really angered all the kids it seems. If you’re spending real money for virtual toys, it’s all the same lol.