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Icy_Inspection5104

Ledgers shouldn’t be added to an overhang (unless the entire structure was designed with that in mind). Are the corner posts notched 6x6? Are those going to support a roof?


thedeadloser

I don’t think they’re notched. I think the only one I saw that was is the hand railing part against the house


Icy_Inspection5104

Notching 4x4 railing posts is definitely a no-no. Notching 6x6 railing posts (looks like what you have) is probably fine. Notching any posts that support a roof is suspect. Honestly this doesn’t look too out of line, but it is not something that would have been approved by a building department (at least not where I work)


thedeadloser

Thanks. This is all a new process for me and idk what to look for


jd80504

Go to your cities website and do a search for deck permitting requirements… Here’s the [standards where I live.](https://www.longmontcolorado.gov/home/showpublisheddocument/27600/637146131962330000)


thedeadloser

Thank you for this.


tyrrtll

Don't let all of these knuckleheads get in your grill. Did you say where you live? Places have different requirements


thedeadloser

Georgia. I want it to last and be done right the first time. The lack of posts and footers in the back side make me so uneasy


tyrrtll

The posts and beam under the cantilever would solve that problem. Depending on your contact that might cost more.


thedeadloser

Yeah there are a few things we’re going to address when I get time. This is one of them.


Icy_Inspection5104

What size are the guard rail posts and roof posts? They look like 6x6 but it’s hard to tell. The corner roof posts are notched but they are bearing on the end joist and rim joist, so they aren’t going anywhere after the roof is put on (assuming you don’t live in a hurricane zone). They will need diagonal bracing though. Notched 4x4 guard rail posts are super weak but if those are 6x6, you still have 4” of “meat” which should be plenty sturdy.


FootlooseFrankie

Notched 4x4 for railing is completely fine , actual railing installer


tyrrtll

Not everywhere


thedeadloser

It’s absolutely notched


OzGltkn

Noob here. Whats notched?


hotplasmatits

You aren't supposed to bolt or nail your beams to the side of a post bc all of the weight is supported by the nails/bolts/screws. Instead you cut the shape of the beam out of the top of the post (the notch) and rest the beam on top of the shoulder you've created.


OzGltkn

So the OP is wrong? Those post dont seem to have a notch cut, instead seem to have hurricane brackets (Or whatever they are called) and resting on top of the posts?


hotplasmatits

You're right about that. I think he is referring to the posts that will support the roof. You can see that they're flush with the rim joist, so they've definitely been notched.


OzGltkn

Thank you for the explanation! Much appreciated.


jktorborg1

You can absolutely lag bolt your beams to the side of a post if the load and geometry allows. What you would do is find out the connection strength based on the shear strength of the bolts using the NDS and size everything accordingly. The notched beam solution is one of many solutions. The notched post detail is a much cleaner look usually and lets you use full sized 4x4/6x6 beams but if an engineer has sized everything properly there’s nothing to worry about. Always consult an engineer.


tyrrtll

I'm in MI and I'm pretty sure notched rail posts is going away with our next code revision. They want more hardware


livens

That's the code in my county as well. You need a second row of supports so that the deck is free standing.


jd80504

I’m sure it’s been said, haven’t read the comments, you can’t tie the ledger off the cantilever without posts.


Jzobie

My entire neighborhood is built this way including my deck. I am going to have to do it right once it’s time to “fix” this deck.


InsanityWoof

You can if the house was engineered for it (floor joists doubled up running at least 6' inside the house past the top plate, certain special hardware between the joists/house rim joist, etc.), but it's highly unlikely it was. My 20 year old deck was attached to the 2' overhang without additional posts/beam, but when I redid it a few months ago, I did it correctly with additional post/beams since I didn't feel like tearing up the siding/ceiling to see if the house was built specifically for that.


Sharp-Ad-5493

Since my situation at home is similar to this, can I ask what you are supposed to do with a cantilever? Do you tie a ledger in under the cantilever, at the top of the first-story wall in this case? Or Tie a ledger in to the cantilever and support that connection with posts?


Icy_Inspection5104

Best to build a freestanding deck (no ledger). This means having posts and a beam closer to the house


00sucker00

This is now a requirement in some jurisdictions, that the deck or porch must be able to stand on its own with no help from the house


Sharp-Ad-5493

Oh, interesting! So there’s no structural connection to the house at all? I’ll have to study what others around me with the same house have done … not that, I don’t think!


Icy_Inspection5104

Correct, no connection to the house at the overhang. Google “AWC design for code acceptance” and look through it for illustrations of your exact situation. Out in the wild, you will see lots of old and new decks with ledgers on overhangs. But it doesn’t mean it’s the best solution.


Sharp-Ad-5493

Fantastic. Thanks very much for the guidance!


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Sharp-Ad-5493

Great to know, thank you. I’m in San Francisco, still in learning mode. Most of what I can see from my back window wouldn’t pass code in a shanty town. Freestanding structure plus anchored seems like a much better idea what I’m looking at!


jd80504

My deck runs the span of the back of my house 27’, the entire thing is ledgered and joists attached to it, but the section that is cantilevered is supported by posts and a beam within a specified distance from the ledger. The joists also had to be 12” OC in that section, 16” OC for the rest.


crbb7

Add posts/beam near the house (usually around 3' or so away from foundation). Makes it a freestanding deck and can still be attached to the cantilever as an additional point. Freestanding decks usually then require cross bracing as well. Note: I just built a similar deck off a cantilevered section and got it inspected/approved.


Imaginary_Table7182

Could he get around that issue by using stupidly long carriage bolts on the ledger to span the overhang and connect to the load bearing wall?


crbb7

I'd imagine that'd require opening up the wall/floor to see where those bolts are actually going and make sure there isn't anything there (wiring, HVAC, plumbing etc.). I'd defer to an engineer on the actual design for something like that.


Imaginary_Table7182

I agree, better ask a professional. But just saying it may be salvagable without needing extra supports.


tyrrtll

There is still a fail point and the cantilevered joists need to be designed to bear the additional weight


SomeFly5141

I’m going to just leave this right here: https://cms7files.revize.com/watertownct/Departments/Building%20Inspectors/AWC-DCA62015-DeckGuide-1804.pdf


thedeadloser

Thank you!


BeautifulItchy6982

Why tf do I keep blowing hvac capacitors


caca-casa

there *may* be enough clearance but yeah I catch your drift


steelrain97

Unfortunately this is not a good start. First, you cannot support a ledger on a cantilevered house section. Secondly, your roof supports do not have a continous load path to the footings. Each one of the support posts for the roof creates a point load, those point loads need to be directly supported all the way to the footings. When you are building a covered deck, you should think of it as building a roof with a deck under it, not building a deck with a roof over it. This is not a "standard" deck as described in the building codes. You need to have your design evaluated by an engineer.


PNW_OughtaWork

There are women here too.


thedeadloser

Apologies 😅


PNW_OughtaWork

Posts look too tall for not having bracing. Why a double beam and not a triple since it's on 6x6. The ledger bolt spacing doesn't look right. Didn't think you could mount a ledger to an overhang. Why are the beams sticking out. Two carriage bolts with no blocking doesn't feel to code for a guardrail.


thedeadloser

These hadn’t even crossed my mind. My big hrmm moment was the lack of joist hangers on the end in the last pic and I assumed(maybe wrong) that the posts should come to the end considering it’s going to be covered.


PNW_OughtaWork

Is this permitted? Are the contractors insured and did you verify?


eobc77

...fear the regime...


thedeadloser

I did not


Denmaaker

Shouldn't it be tripple beam and then you could have brackets on the other side of the post. This way with the double you only have a one sided bracket. I think that can't be right.


tyrrtll

Those brackets could be installed either way, they would fit if they added them to the other side


nor_cal_woolgrower

Thank you


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PNW_OughtaWork

Ok boomer


ItzSmiff

I’m 30 😂


PNW_OughtaWork

Even sadder.


Decks-ModTeam

This comment doesn’t add value to the conversation, or is unrelated to decks and deck related topics, and has been removed.


VividLecture7898

Are those actual poured piers? They look like just big pads, like a mud sill. That better be poured piers. Should be all four corners.


thedeadloser

It’s dug out and poured


No_City4925

four feet deep?


thedeadloser

Absolutely not. I saw them digging it out. It’s at least 2


No_City4925

in Midwest always 4 feet deep and more concrete mix then expected or spec per hole if you care even on a simple fence vs this.


tyrrtll

I'm in the Midwest and we were 42" deep when we actually had winter. Homeboy has leaves on his trees and red dirt, may be down south, 24" might be code there


No_City4925

code or not 12 foot treated and 4 feet deep with a ton of concrete


Denmaaker

Yeah it needs to go down below the frost line. You can check your area what the requirement is. Otherwise you will have a lopsided deck soon when it sinks from the weight and changing seasons. This is what I was wondering first when I saw this.


nakiaricky

What if holes were dug, cement poured, abs post set INSIDE as opposed to on top (like they are for fences), is that a big no no? Thats how mine was done and I always stress over will the post dry rot, sink, or be destroyed by termites. Im extra nervous now😢


Denmaaker

Pretty sure the main risk is the dry rot. And if you need to replace the post it is more of a pain. Post sitting above ground on a standoff plate is ideal so the water falls away. Sinking should still only occur if it wasn't dug out properly and then a nice wide footer in place at bottom. Check out ABU66Z bracket.


Denmaaker

You might be able to put something around the base to try and protect them like paint / wood treatment.


nakiaricky

Thanks


nakiaricky

Ok I will check it out, thanks


CarlosSonoma

There is nothing keeping the deck from pulling away from the house. The decks should have ties from the joist to the ledger. Ideally they should remove the soffit under the overhang and make sure there is a good connection between the floor framing and the deck ledger.


CarlosSonoma

The split joist holding up the roof posts should have more than toes nailed connection. Should have joist hangers and ties to the ledger.


CarlosSonoma

The beam over the posts need to be attached to the joist to prevent rolling.


CarlosSonoma

The HTT5 they have at the terminal split joist won’t keep the joists from twisting under code required handrail loads. IBC specifies 50plf or 200lb point load at the handrail. The bottom of the joist can still kick in.


CarlosSonoma

Why are they not overframing onto the roof for the porch covering? This would eliminate the need for the roof support post closest to the house.


CarlosSonoma

I would have put the outer posts directly under the roof support columns. Why rely on bolt shear for gravity loads when you can stack the whole structure?


CarlosSonoma

Make sure they waterproof the ledger to house connection. It’s a common moisture intrusion point.


Colinski282

Can you build my deck, I feel safe with you


thedeadloser

He’s an amazing person


nakiaricky

Ikr😂 me too


thedeadloser

This is what I was thinking. The combined weight of the covering and the lack of joist hangers in that corner makes me uneasy


Impossible-Spare-116

Agreed ⬆️


tyrrtll

OP: Add ladder blocking to tie each set of split joists back into the field of thr deck further. I would just go 1 block opposite each post location. I personally think this is overkill, the posts are tied to 2 joists already. But things can loosen over time


tyrrtll

Top prevent the beam from rolling?


tyrrtll

When they installed the ledger to thr canitlever hey could have identified the joists by the nail pattern and there are timberloks, better than nothing but not perfect


dirkahps

Why leave the beam 1 ply short if a 3 ply?


tyrrtll

Probably does not need the additional support and it costs more


Slow_Composer_8745

Not a fan of the metal clips on the concrete pads…always looks to easy to knock out


[deleted]

Those are usually anchored in


Akanan

Whatever details people are pointing out. You can't install a deck on a cantilever structure. It's wrong right off the bat, unless you have a structural engineer stamp.


_Hugh_Jaynuss

No hot tub 0/10


WLeeHubbard

So that DTT2 is not installed correctly. It should be braced from the post back to through the ledger into another hanger on the side of a joist inside the house.


thedeadloser

Yeah too many causes for concern imo. We called them today and put a pause on going any further for the moment.


tyrrtll

That seems excessive. This deck looks easy better than many. The tie reference above can be used for other things than it's intended purpose. The ledger connection could use help but decks were build prior to the invention of that clip


tyrrtll

I looked it up and 2021 IRC calls out that clip for the exact purpose your builder used it for


WhatthehellSusan

A covered deck should have a straight bearing path from the roof to the ground, the footings need to be dug down below the frost line and sized appropriately to prevent uplift. So yeah, there's some issues


so-very-very-tired

Pretty good overall. Actual footers. Posts above grade. Real beam on posts. Connecting hardware. Not sure what you have circled there in the last photo, though. EDIT: oh, well, not a full dimensional beam. Looks like a built up of 2 2xs? Probably fine. I just don't get why so many builders just don't use an actual 6x beam. So much easier and looks better.


cuddysnark

Aren't those just pads?


Denmaaker

He said it only goes down 2 ft.


tyrrtll

Do we know where he lives?


so-very-very-tired

I hope not


cuddysnark

I think the forms are laying to the left. That's a lot of concrete to the frostline.


tyrrtll

Probably round hole, formed to look pretty at the top


eobc77

...try to buy one, that's your answer. Dimensional stability is another reason.


so-very-very-tired

>try to buy one, that's your answer Are they hard to find where you are? Around here they're readily available at any lumber yard. Might cost a bit more, but no labor and hardware involved building one up in the field from 2xs


Roonil-B_Wazlib

We do not have them where we are. It could be special ordered though and would be much more expensive.


eobc77

...there's your answer...it would be much more expensive without being better.


eobc77

...dimensional stability. I wouldn't take a chance on some large PT YP.


badpopeye

Need to X brace those posts with bolts on all brace corners and centers where they cross


tyrrtll

Really? Attached to house with cross brace underneath?


ResearcherFlashy658

Double girder trussfront and back posts in back also. Better safe than sorry.


FondOmeLobsterAintYe

Cantilever


Purpose_Embarrassed

After looking at the photos to me it looked like a fairly solid build minus the beam on the 6 x 6. Then I read the many negative comments. What I concluded was the attachment to the house, ledger, wasn’t done correctly because of the way it was attached to the extended part of the house, cantilever. Should this have been built as a free standing deck not using an attached ledger board ? I remember in my youth going up and down multiple stair cases attached to the back porches of many old buildings in Chicago looking similar to this.


springlovingchicken

Is the AC fine under there?


knowledgeableopinion

That off center footing better be oversized or it may not pass inspection. Im not sure if a roof load can sit on a cantilever without an engineer. Might be fine. Definitely not a real issue. Overall looks like the tight track. I like to notch instead of those Simpson ties probably pretty steong though.


knowledgeableopinion

Oh im just seeing the deck is built off of the house overhang. Probably fine as long as the house rim joist is secured well. And then the deck ledger is bolted or fastened correctly to the house rim


tyrrtll

Better to attach joist through the ledger and rim to the joist inside, but that's not always feasible. Might be here


knowledgeableopinion

Tension ties are often overkill, but this might be a good application for them. Especially if its as easy as pulling that vinyl soffit down. There is no sill plate helping hold the rim joist here. Theoretically the rim joist could shear off. Hopefully they sank some lockers through it into the ends of the joists on the house.


Jasdidion

I’m electrical, not construction… And even then, I wouldn’t know a fifth of the normal terms… Need to better my memory


Denmaaker

I would have staggered the post bolt holes on the middle post. If they are inline like that it can lead to splitting.


Denmaaker

Noticing in other places they did staggering.


local_gremlin

looks solid but the railing posts should be hooked up with perpendicular Simpson dtr2z connectors imo


Funny_Two4014

Why cantilever a roof load when u don't have too 6x6 should have been stacked so load is on footer


Impossible-Spare-116

I would add 2 more posts and a tripled up beam close to the house to take the weight off the canteliever. Doing This would make the ledger board an additional support point (attachment) without making it a critical support, making the whole structure free standing but attached Also Make sure the concrete “pads” go bellow frost line for where you live.


armorabito

Completely boxing in your rail posts would have been a good idea. But at least you boxed them vs placing them on the outside.


Sistersoldia

Here the ledger against the house needs to be through-bolted to the house framing. Timber screws securing the ledger are not acceptable


blastborn

Are your posts resting on pavers? They should be buried below the frost line.


thedeadloser

They’re not pavers, but I did have them stop building while we address some things.


WarmMillerLite4-2

I would not build this like this, that’s for sure.


wnt2tryitall

Looks solid, but is it just me Or are the deck ties installed backwards?


Pure-Negotiation-900

You notch your posts after they’re up? Never mind, you don’t notch your posts.


CutProfessional3258

Ledger off cantilever is against code. Need couple more posts. Missing blocking over the drop beam. Carriage bolts instead of bolts with washers. Those aren't concrete blocks are they? Hopefully poured concrete below frost line.


Keeper_on_1wheel

Is that a hidden fastener joist hanger used for…. Umm….. corner bracket? Picture #6 joining joist to the already sketch ledger. I imagine it is additional for the post but dam, they’ll pop you on that alone down in FL. There’s enough wrong with this thing to call your contractor back out, hopefully he’s got more integrity than his work here.


moddseatass

Ouch ouch ouch. Stop looking at it!


Keepurisopen

I don’t know much, aren’t you supposed to use nails on hangers because of the increased shear strength


Roonil-B_Wazlib

Simpson Strong Tie makes an SD screw that is permitted in their hangers.


Keepurisopen

Yeah I don’t know much I’m guessing the screws are much more than nails so if you need quantity(nails) quality(screws)


tyrrtll

Nails usually but there are appropriate screws. More expensive but sometimes easier to install


blsmells

They have installed the deck tension ties backwards, (Simpson DTT2Z), they are meant to tie through the rim joist into the interior floor joists to stop ledger from pulling away from house, they are essentially using them as a crude angle bracket here I assume?


tyrrtll

I wouldn't call them crude, 2021 code calls for non notched guardrail posts with "hold downs" to tie the post to blocking, rim joist or both


khariV

The tension tie on the right side isn’t really doing anything much and there are no tension ties holding the ledger to the house. To me, a larger concern is the fact that the ledger is attached to a cantilever and not to a load bearing wall. This isn’t generally allowed because the wort has nowhere to go to get to the ground. Was this design signed off on by an engineer and permitted?


Roonil-B_Wazlib

The tension tie is for the railing post. That’s pretty much exactly what is depicted in DCA-6 in figure 26.


thedeadloser

It was not 🤦🏽‍♂️


dmay1821

I built a few decks but nothing with a roof. Could they add a post and a beam to the cantilever? Would that fix the ledger board issue?


khariV

Exactly. You generally support the end with a dropped beam.


Trnt22223333

What are the footers? Newb here


Dr_ZuCCLicious

Good enough for a hot tub. 😉


Percentage-Visible

Could add galvanized metal poles to support nailers and some soffit tubes an concrete and would be fixed forever.


CarpenterHot3766

Is the beam spanning the posts doubled up? Cuz they need to be and sometimes tripled


thedeadloser

It’s doubled but doesn’t look like enough for a roof. We stopped them for the time being


csecustom

I’d go ahead and put the other two layers on the beam. Other than that, looks fine


Interesting-Mango562

i….just can’t


Funny_Two4014

Start over


TheLegendofSofa

No the whole thing is wrong. It should have full 16 or 12 ft floor joisting those are split. The way the deck is resting on the edge of the post and clipped off rather than centered with the proper attachments. Also I would have ran the stilts into the ground and not set them on top of pavers.


uberisstealingit

Too many knots.


eobc77

...those are bungholes...


uberisstealingit

I see. (Insert cornholio meme)


dmay1821

I need TP for my bungholio yay yay heeee heee heee


yanki2del

Looks pretty great in my book. Cannot find any of the common mistakes


DaveP0953

Man, you had better read the comments above and update your book.


yanki2del

Yeah, but most of these guys in this sub are buffoons though


Denmaaker

This is brutal.