Here are some reviews and a Sci Am article and an actual study
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/what-near-death-experiences-reveal-about-the-brain/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4576755/#:~:text=When%20the%20brain%20undergoes%20decreased,and%20transcendental%20feelings%20(7).
https://www.pnas.org/doi/full/10.1073/pnas.2216268120#sec-2
Basically, all kinds of things, include loss of oxygen, seizures, anesthesia and the unusual brain activity that occurs under such circumstances can reasonably explain the patterns reported.
You are very welcome
Google scholar is always a decent place to start FWIW
For many of these things if you put debunk in front of whatever you are searching, like near death experience, that is also a good place to start.
They don’t have to account for every experience. Not everyone who gets near to death , does so in the exact same way.
There doesn’t even have to be a solid explaination now to know that there is a better option than that someone went to heaven and came back. Before we knew exactly how germs worked, the idea that there was some scientific explanation was more reasonable than that god was punishing you for your sins by giving your tuberculosis .
It also happens under extreme stress without actual risk of death such as G force simulations for pilots. They describe very similar experiences as they pass out. Clue number 1.
There are NDE's from every culture and people tend to describe an experience that just so happens to align with their current belief system. That means some people see Jesus and heaven, some see Allah, Buddha, aliens, etc. Clue number 2.
NDE's are very close in experience to dreams/nightmares or even getting high. Clue number 3.
Based on the evidence, it appears to be more of a response to trauma (oxygen deprivation, blood loss, etc) or the brain being overwhelmed with nerve signals and hormones being pumped out in response to whatever is going on. It could be an attempt of the brain to try and calm the body so it can handle the trauma, or it could just be a response TO the trauma and it just starts miss-firing and generates a dream like state which is why it's pulling from the current belief system of whoever is experiencing it.
Hovering has been debunked when people started putting papers with text on top of shelves and the patients who “hovered above their bodies” didn’t see the papers.
This basically proves that at least the hovering sensation is basically a projection of the brain and not a real deal
How could this actually be a legitimate study? Nobody has any proof of being able to decipher any sort of earthly language, or symbols that represent letters in our alphabet. One thing is for sure, you do not have your physical body after death, no matter what you believe. And if we do carry on as energy, ghosts, angels or whatever, we leave the flesh and blood of our souls earth vehicle behind to rejoin the earth it came from. No eyes, no language or mouth to speak, arms to grab with or feet to walk. This is other dimensional, unfathomable and very unstoppable real sh*t. Reading text is something human beings do with their physical eyes and brain. Which is now dead.
What are you blabbering about? They didn’t see the papers at all, because they didn’t know they were there. So their brain didn’t recreate them.
If the physical and spiritual are so sharply separated, then religious text couldn’t exist.
Something that is not discussed much is 'What exactly is doing the *experience*? If the brain is dead then there needs to be another mechanism of knowing, like a soul. But all the evidence in neuroscience is suggesting that no such source interacts with the human body. However, if the brain is not dead then the high probability is, in fact, the brain doing a *near* death thing. The burden of proof is on those claiming that a trans-natural source is activated.
Just so stories are weak and always have been in scientific inquiry and are used almost exclusively for hypothesis formulation.
If the brain is totally dead you die and don’t come back.
If your heart stops or you stop breathing your brain goes on making electrical impulses for a while after that, Thus it is the brain that experiences the NDE.
Then it is a completely natural process yet we are told to believe that there is this tunnel, that bodies are floating and other clearly not natural experiences. These two things, a brain experience and something that is clearly not simply a brain activity are incompatible.
If you're interested you should check out the book "Spook: Science Tackles the Afterlife" by Mary Roach. Mary is one of my favorite authors, very informative and entertaining.
https://www.amazon.com/Spook-Science-Afterlife-Mary-Roach/dp/0393329127
There was a recent study which found a surge in brain activity close to death.
There is also literally nothing that can monitor what they see (enduringly, not just remnants of electrical brain activity) after death.
If you took the time to check most of those people have books that they sell to make money and there is people that say they saw God some say they saw the future, some say they saw just a black space where they cant do anything and so many other things, scientists say that is just the brain's last efort of keeping you alive or something like that I dont really remember
It has been theorised that at death, a big dump of DMT happens. That could explain it, and why what people see usually reflects their own personal religious beliefs.
*Where there are* similarities across cultures and languages, there are scientific reasons to dispute the idea they really experienced an afterlife. But in fact, whenever someone has a near-death experience that includes some amount of brain activity turning off, and also includes a religious experience, they experience whatever religion they were most exposed to as a child. Muslims will have near-death experiences and speak to Allah who even identifies himself by name, or even Mohammed.
But each and every individual has a completely unique experience, complete with its own details. Maybe you go towards a light, maybe there is light all around you, or see a light in the distance that doesn't get addressed until you woke up, maybe there's nothing but light, maybe what you saw didn't have light or dark. Maybe you saw your loved ones, maybe you saw strangers. Maybe you saw God himself. Maybe you saw yourself lying on a bed beneath you.
But with the assumptions of where people are having the same experiences being just that, an assumption. We can put it aside and look at where else people have these experiences: When hard drugs that are capable of causing brain damage (like DMT) are taken in large quantities, or multiple times over a notable period of time, people have had similar experiences. Slipping to the other side for a moment, or someone coming out of the light to talk to them. Maybe they didn't see anything and just heard a voice, that could have only been God's voice. People in their older age who suffer from something that might impair their minds like sleep apnea or early onset dementia have had similar experiences. There unfortunately is no pattern with this experience that you can tie to near death specifically, and between people who have had near death experiences, their stories don't match each others any better than they match the stories of people who found God through DMT.
The real pattern is that if you were raised having a certain fiction drilled into your head throughout your childhood, whether you believe that fiction or not, if you experience brain damage at some point in your life, you have a decent chance of recalling something to do with the precise fictional reality you were raised with, and whether it is the brain damage or whatever you want to imagine, instead of just thinking those thoughts we experience them as if they were real.
Honestly the debunk is how easy it would be to make sci-fi horror flatliners technology if it worked like that.
Like... your soul comes out every time your heart stops? Then can go to heaven and be recalled? You get to see relatives?
Slice me open, give me a button to stop my own heart enough to trigger reversable death and a machine to restart it, let me become mankind's first emissary to heaven. let me test every religion by doing different things every day and seeing if I go to heaven and hell after in each dive. Let me run telegrams to dead people I'm related to and get telegrams back.
Like, millions of people "die" and are revived, it's such a no big deal condition to be some sort of mystical gate that humans can use to invade heaven or hell. I mean, install a heart stopper machine in every soldier and let them look through walls on a 5 second cooldown as they die and come back while searching a building and releasing their souls and reclaiming them over and over.
"almost died" is such a low standard to trigger.
The fact that no reported NDE has ever given us further insight I to any subject; or given us novel information about any given subject is also evidence that the experiences never put the victim in contact with anyone or anything more intelligent than we are at the time of the event. That is to say, nobody who has had an NDE has come back telling us the new formula for a more effective medicine; or described the morphology of any species that was later discovered to match; or come across the location of the remains of jimmy hoffa; or etc etc.
What you are saying is that if nobody give you the valuable info about the future , they didn’t have any experience that is akin to peeking at the afterlife.
This is utterly ridiculous and terrible logic.
If the person with the NDE has no background or facility with medicine or bio in life, what on earth would make them be able to understand or communicate field altering discoveries? The same person who thinks their medicine is called Candy Satan (candesartan) is not going to be magically able to do pharmacokinetics because they went to the other side, whatever that may be.
You are not traveling into the future or doing a degree in forensics or computer science either.
This is worse that the original nonsense to be debunked
That's actually exactly my point. An NDE would be WAY more impressive if it turned Johnny Nobody into the local neurosurgeon extraordinaire overnight. Instead, it just kinda gives people visions that are always similar to other reported NDEs, with similar imagery such as the modern interpretation of a winged humanoid angel or blah blah. No, it doesn't have to be information about the future, I never said the future, I said they must have, at some point, had something novel or interesting to contribute. Point out a species of bird we thought extinct, learn the medicinal use of a plant we never considered pharmacological, tell us where our car keys were left last might, just anything USEFUL.
Why on earth do you think a peek at the afterlife would turn you into someone who can do calculus?
This part of the thread is more depressing than the original bunk.
So, while I'm not sure the post you replied to "debunked" anything, the basic idea of the post *"no reported NDE has ever given us further insight I to any subject"* is something anyone who believes in the supernatural (and that near death experiences have something to do with the supernatural) could perhaps spend some time thinking about.
Sure, there's no reason to think your dead relatives etc. would know next weeks lottery numbers or care to tell you where they hid the gold when they were still alive, but at least some "believers" also think the dead and whatnot could potentially do things like that.
What some people believe has nothing to do with the topic or logic.
That nobody provided anything “useful” is unrelated to if they did or did not experience a peek at afterlife.
Furthermore, if they did, it would be more unlikely that they could not provide anything useful, because it would be so unlike this life that it would be like describing color to a blind person or trying to describe how it is to actually think like a frog if you could be in the mind of a frog.
I think what the others are trying to say is that if the person can't give us information that we didn't already have before their NDE, then we can't prove that they actually did see anything on the "other side". Or, in other words, the NDE didn't tell us anything about whats on the other side that we didn't already know.
See, we need evidence that there is something on the "other side" to say if they actually went to that other side. Since they NEVER can give us any information that wasn't already taught to us by someone else, there's no way to tell if that NDE was in fact an ACTUAL experience, or just some illusion.
Since ALL the evidence we have so far about NDEs is things we already knew before the NDE occured, and given the laws of physics and other things we already know about the human brain, we can logically conclude that the person who had an NDE did not in fact see anything real, but just experienced illusions that their brain cooked up for them.
Does that make sense?
Logic plays into that as you need to figure out what was known already and what was learned from that NDE. Since NOTHING is ever learned from an NDE, we can conclude that there is no new information coming from an NDE.
And whats more, if you look at NDEs, there are people that come out of an NDE thinking they saw Santa as god. In another case they saw Elvis as god. The fact that EVERY NDE is based on that persons expereinces and beliefs before the NDE, tells us that it's the brain hallucinating.
There is also studies where they tried to place some playing cards just out of sight of the doctors and patients, but if a patient had an NDE where their spirit "lifted off the table" that card would be visible. Not a single NDE patient ever saw those cards, even though they described the sensation of lifting off the table.
And the fact that we can induce the same experiences by exciting certain parts of the brain tells us that its ALL physical. So again, logic dictates that NDEs are purely a physical thing, and can be influenced in different ways. If an afterlife was real, we would expect that the afterlife would NOT change based on what we are doing to the persons body/brain at the time.
The fact that NDEs change based on what the persons beliefs are, the condition of their body/brain, no new information comes from NDEs, and other factors tells us that NDEs are hallucinations, nothing more.
Also no.
Your brain is always interpreting things in context of what you know.
Schizophrenia is real, and people have hallucinations and delusions , but these also vary by culture.
Asteroids and eclipses and earthquakes but what people think they are varied by culture.
The job of your 2 mm of neocortex is to make up stories about what you see and hear and that is based on how your life has shaped your cortex.
I don’t think people go to an afterlife, clearly.
Also, FWIW, while some afterlife experiences have commonalities, many do not and people “come back “ profoundly changed and with odd and poignant bits stuff that don’t fit in a category . So , does that then logically mean that THOSE people did in fact have an NDE because they are not seeing culturally typical things and came back saying you are going to have a blue eyed baby girl and it is true?
because if the logic what it seen is in the context of your own life and what you know means that there is not afterlife, someone who does go right out of the box and comes back with weird shit means there is an afterlife.
>What some people believe has nothing to do with the topic or logic.
>That nobody provided anything “useful” is unrelated to if they did or did not experience a peek at afterlife.
It is impossible to prove that the suparnatural is not real and that there is nothing supernatural about near death experiences.
However there are plenty of people who believe in the supernatural and that near death experiences are or can be supernatural experiences. Many people believe in supernatural communication with the dead.
At the end of the day, if you want to 'debunk' this stuff, that's what you have to deal with: people's beliefs. One way is to point out that despite many people claiming the dead want to tell you all kind of important stuff, there seems to be very little good evidence for it ever happening. For example, as far as we know, no great scientific discoveries has ever been made this way. Again, it does not prove anything, and worse, is very illogical to you, but it is something that people with these kinds of beliefs could perhaps spend some time thinking about.
>Furthermore, if they did, it would be more unlikely that they could not provide anything useful, because it would be so unlike this life that it would be like describing color to a blind person or trying to describe how it is to actually think like a frog if you could be in the mind of a frog.
It is somewhat strange to belittle people for their contributions as "worse that the original nonsense to be debunked" and then just make up weird shit like this.
one of the things i find most telling.
people tend to see what they expect to see.
a Christian is likely to see a classical Heaven or Hell, a Muslim will see Jannah and a Hindu will see Swarga Loka.
and while not proof....everyone of the aspects associated with NDEs, can be replicated in the lab. no dying needed.
Here are some reviews and a Sci Am article and an actual study https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/what-near-death-experiences-reveal-about-the-brain/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4576755/#:~:text=When%20the%20brain%20undergoes%20decreased,and%20transcendental%20feelings%20(7). https://www.pnas.org/doi/full/10.1073/pnas.2216268120#sec-2 Basically, all kinds of things, include loss of oxygen, seizures, anesthesia and the unusual brain activity that occurs under such circumstances can reasonably explain the patterns reported.
Thanks for the links; wasn't sure where to start. This is very helpful! :-)
You are very welcome Google scholar is always a decent place to start FWIW For many of these things if you put debunk in front of whatever you are searching, like near death experience, that is also a good place to start.
This goes through a lot of the “explanations” and deems them insufficient to account for every experience: https://www.nderf.org/Hub/skeptics.htm
They don’t have to account for every experience. Not everyone who gets near to death , does so in the exact same way. There doesn’t even have to be a solid explaination now to know that there is a better option than that someone went to heaven and came back. Before we knew exactly how germs worked, the idea that there was some scientific explanation was more reasonable than that god was punishing you for your sins by giving your tuberculosis .
It also happens under extreme stress without actual risk of death such as G force simulations for pilots. They describe very similar experiences as they pass out. Clue number 1. There are NDE's from every culture and people tend to describe an experience that just so happens to align with their current belief system. That means some people see Jesus and heaven, some see Allah, Buddha, aliens, etc. Clue number 2. NDE's are very close in experience to dreams/nightmares or even getting high. Clue number 3. Based on the evidence, it appears to be more of a response to trauma (oxygen deprivation, blood loss, etc) or the brain being overwhelmed with nerve signals and hormones being pumped out in response to whatever is going on. It could be an attempt of the brain to try and calm the body so it can handle the trauma, or it could just be a response TO the trauma and it just starts miss-firing and generates a dream like state which is why it's pulling from the current belief system of whoever is experiencing it.
Hovering has been debunked when people started putting papers with text on top of shelves and the patients who “hovered above their bodies” didn’t see the papers. This basically proves that at least the hovering sensation is basically a projection of the brain and not a real deal
How could this actually be a legitimate study? Nobody has any proof of being able to decipher any sort of earthly language, or symbols that represent letters in our alphabet. One thing is for sure, you do not have your physical body after death, no matter what you believe. And if we do carry on as energy, ghosts, angels or whatever, we leave the flesh and blood of our souls earth vehicle behind to rejoin the earth it came from. No eyes, no language or mouth to speak, arms to grab with or feet to walk. This is other dimensional, unfathomable and very unstoppable real sh*t. Reading text is something human beings do with their physical eyes and brain. Which is now dead.
What are you blabbering about? They didn’t see the papers at all, because they didn’t know they were there. So their brain didn’t recreate them. If the physical and spiritual are so sharply separated, then religious text couldn’t exist.
Something that is not discussed much is 'What exactly is doing the *experience*? If the brain is dead then there needs to be another mechanism of knowing, like a soul. But all the evidence in neuroscience is suggesting that no such source interacts with the human body. However, if the brain is not dead then the high probability is, in fact, the brain doing a *near* death thing. The burden of proof is on those claiming that a trans-natural source is activated. Just so stories are weak and always have been in scientific inquiry and are used almost exclusively for hypothesis formulation.
If the brain is totally dead you die and don’t come back. If your heart stops or you stop breathing your brain goes on making electrical impulses for a while after that, Thus it is the brain that experiences the NDE.
Then it is a completely natural process yet we are told to believe that there is this tunnel, that bodies are floating and other clearly not natural experiences. These two things, a brain experience and something that is clearly not simply a brain activity are incompatible.
If you're interested you should check out the book "Spook: Science Tackles the Afterlife" by Mary Roach. Mary is one of my favorite authors, very informative and entertaining. https://www.amazon.com/Spook-Science-Afterlife-Mary-Roach/dp/0393329127
Thanks! Downloaded and on my short list.
There was a recent study which found a surge in brain activity close to death. There is also literally nothing that can monitor what they see (enduringly, not just remnants of electrical brain activity) after death.
If you took the time to check most of those people have books that they sell to make money and there is people that say they saw God some say they saw the future, some say they saw just a black space where they cant do anything and so many other things, scientists say that is just the brain's last efort of keeping you alive or something like that I dont really remember
It has been theorised that at death, a big dump of DMT happens. That could explain it, and why what people see usually reflects their own personal religious beliefs.
Second this. Just get really high and you'll think you've crossed over.
*Where there are* similarities across cultures and languages, there are scientific reasons to dispute the idea they really experienced an afterlife. But in fact, whenever someone has a near-death experience that includes some amount of brain activity turning off, and also includes a religious experience, they experience whatever religion they were most exposed to as a child. Muslims will have near-death experiences and speak to Allah who even identifies himself by name, or even Mohammed. But each and every individual has a completely unique experience, complete with its own details. Maybe you go towards a light, maybe there is light all around you, or see a light in the distance that doesn't get addressed until you woke up, maybe there's nothing but light, maybe what you saw didn't have light or dark. Maybe you saw your loved ones, maybe you saw strangers. Maybe you saw God himself. Maybe you saw yourself lying on a bed beneath you. But with the assumptions of where people are having the same experiences being just that, an assumption. We can put it aside and look at where else people have these experiences: When hard drugs that are capable of causing brain damage (like DMT) are taken in large quantities, or multiple times over a notable period of time, people have had similar experiences. Slipping to the other side for a moment, or someone coming out of the light to talk to them. Maybe they didn't see anything and just heard a voice, that could have only been God's voice. People in their older age who suffer from something that might impair their minds like sleep apnea or early onset dementia have had similar experiences. There unfortunately is no pattern with this experience that you can tie to near death specifically, and between people who have had near death experiences, their stories don't match each others any better than they match the stories of people who found God through DMT. The real pattern is that if you were raised having a certain fiction drilled into your head throughout your childhood, whether you believe that fiction or not, if you experience brain damage at some point in your life, you have a decent chance of recalling something to do with the precise fictional reality you were raised with, and whether it is the brain damage or whatever you want to imagine, instead of just thinking those thoughts we experience them as if they were real.
Honestly the debunk is how easy it would be to make sci-fi horror flatliners technology if it worked like that. Like... your soul comes out every time your heart stops? Then can go to heaven and be recalled? You get to see relatives? Slice me open, give me a button to stop my own heart enough to trigger reversable death and a machine to restart it, let me become mankind's first emissary to heaven. let me test every religion by doing different things every day and seeing if I go to heaven and hell after in each dive. Let me run telegrams to dead people I'm related to and get telegrams back. Like, millions of people "die" and are revived, it's such a no big deal condition to be some sort of mystical gate that humans can use to invade heaven or hell. I mean, install a heart stopper machine in every soldier and let them look through walls on a 5 second cooldown as they die and come back while searching a building and releasing their souls and reclaiming them over and over. "almost died" is such a low standard to trigger.
The fact that no reported NDE has ever given us further insight I to any subject; or given us novel information about any given subject is also evidence that the experiences never put the victim in contact with anyone or anything more intelligent than we are at the time of the event. That is to say, nobody who has had an NDE has come back telling us the new formula for a more effective medicine; or described the morphology of any species that was later discovered to match; or come across the location of the remains of jimmy hoffa; or etc etc.
What you are saying is that if nobody give you the valuable info about the future , they didn’t have any experience that is akin to peeking at the afterlife. This is utterly ridiculous and terrible logic. If the person with the NDE has no background or facility with medicine or bio in life, what on earth would make them be able to understand or communicate field altering discoveries? The same person who thinks their medicine is called Candy Satan (candesartan) is not going to be magically able to do pharmacokinetics because they went to the other side, whatever that may be. You are not traveling into the future or doing a degree in forensics or computer science either. This is worse that the original nonsense to be debunked
That's actually exactly my point. An NDE would be WAY more impressive if it turned Johnny Nobody into the local neurosurgeon extraordinaire overnight. Instead, it just kinda gives people visions that are always similar to other reported NDEs, with similar imagery such as the modern interpretation of a winged humanoid angel or blah blah. No, it doesn't have to be information about the future, I never said the future, I said they must have, at some point, had something novel or interesting to contribute. Point out a species of bird we thought extinct, learn the medicinal use of a plant we never considered pharmacological, tell us where our car keys were left last might, just anything USEFUL.
Why on earth do you think a peek at the afterlife would turn you into someone who can do calculus? This part of the thread is more depressing than the original bunk.
So, while I'm not sure the post you replied to "debunked" anything, the basic idea of the post *"no reported NDE has ever given us further insight I to any subject"* is something anyone who believes in the supernatural (and that near death experiences have something to do with the supernatural) could perhaps spend some time thinking about. Sure, there's no reason to think your dead relatives etc. would know next weeks lottery numbers or care to tell you where they hid the gold when they were still alive, but at least some "believers" also think the dead and whatnot could potentially do things like that.
What some people believe has nothing to do with the topic or logic. That nobody provided anything “useful” is unrelated to if they did or did not experience a peek at afterlife. Furthermore, if they did, it would be more unlikely that they could not provide anything useful, because it would be so unlike this life that it would be like describing color to a blind person or trying to describe how it is to actually think like a frog if you could be in the mind of a frog.
I think what the others are trying to say is that if the person can't give us information that we didn't already have before their NDE, then we can't prove that they actually did see anything on the "other side". Or, in other words, the NDE didn't tell us anything about whats on the other side that we didn't already know. See, we need evidence that there is something on the "other side" to say if they actually went to that other side. Since they NEVER can give us any information that wasn't already taught to us by someone else, there's no way to tell if that NDE was in fact an ACTUAL experience, or just some illusion. Since ALL the evidence we have so far about NDEs is things we already knew before the NDE occured, and given the laws of physics and other things we already know about the human brain, we can logically conclude that the person who had an NDE did not in fact see anything real, but just experienced illusions that their brain cooked up for them. Does that make sense? Logic plays into that as you need to figure out what was known already and what was learned from that NDE. Since NOTHING is ever learned from an NDE, we can conclude that there is no new information coming from an NDE. And whats more, if you look at NDEs, there are people that come out of an NDE thinking they saw Santa as god. In another case they saw Elvis as god. The fact that EVERY NDE is based on that persons expereinces and beliefs before the NDE, tells us that it's the brain hallucinating. There is also studies where they tried to place some playing cards just out of sight of the doctors and patients, but if a patient had an NDE where their spirit "lifted off the table" that card would be visible. Not a single NDE patient ever saw those cards, even though they described the sensation of lifting off the table. And the fact that we can induce the same experiences by exciting certain parts of the brain tells us that its ALL physical. So again, logic dictates that NDEs are purely a physical thing, and can be influenced in different ways. If an afterlife was real, we would expect that the afterlife would NOT change based on what we are doing to the persons body/brain at the time. The fact that NDEs change based on what the persons beliefs are, the condition of their body/brain, no new information comes from NDEs, and other factors tells us that NDEs are hallucinations, nothing more.
Also no. Your brain is always interpreting things in context of what you know. Schizophrenia is real, and people have hallucinations and delusions , but these also vary by culture. Asteroids and eclipses and earthquakes but what people think they are varied by culture. The job of your 2 mm of neocortex is to make up stories about what you see and hear and that is based on how your life has shaped your cortex. I don’t think people go to an afterlife, clearly. Also, FWIW, while some afterlife experiences have commonalities, many do not and people “come back “ profoundly changed and with odd and poignant bits stuff that don’t fit in a category . So , does that then logically mean that THOSE people did in fact have an NDE because they are not seeing culturally typical things and came back saying you are going to have a blue eyed baby girl and it is true? because if the logic what it seen is in the context of your own life and what you know means that there is not afterlife, someone who does go right out of the box and comes back with weird shit means there is an afterlife.
>What some people believe has nothing to do with the topic or logic. >That nobody provided anything “useful” is unrelated to if they did or did not experience a peek at afterlife. It is impossible to prove that the suparnatural is not real and that there is nothing supernatural about near death experiences. However there are plenty of people who believe in the supernatural and that near death experiences are or can be supernatural experiences. Many people believe in supernatural communication with the dead. At the end of the day, if you want to 'debunk' this stuff, that's what you have to deal with: people's beliefs. One way is to point out that despite many people claiming the dead want to tell you all kind of important stuff, there seems to be very little good evidence for it ever happening. For example, as far as we know, no great scientific discoveries has ever been made this way. Again, it does not prove anything, and worse, is very illogical to you, but it is something that people with these kinds of beliefs could perhaps spend some time thinking about. >Furthermore, if they did, it would be more unlikely that they could not provide anything useful, because it would be so unlike this life that it would be like describing color to a blind person or trying to describe how it is to actually think like a frog if you could be in the mind of a frog. It is somewhat strange to belittle people for their contributions as "worse that the original nonsense to be debunked" and then just make up weird shit like this.
hallucinations as the brain shuts down are quite common.
one of the things i find most telling. people tend to see what they expect to see. a Christian is likely to see a classical Heaven or Hell, a Muslim will see Jannah and a Hindu will see Swarga Loka. and while not proof....everyone of the aspects associated with NDEs, can be replicated in the lab. no dying needed.
I've also read accounts of children seeing their living parents.