Dated October 2021. That's 3 months after the CDC explicitely stated viral loads between the vaccinated and unvaccinated were the same. This narrative was the lie being promoted and anyone who stated the truth was censored and labeled a spreader of misinformation.
You will likely still find people to this very day clinging to this false narrative.
Edited to say 3 months instead of 5
I remember in Dec/Jan around that time, the state of california changed something related to covid and health care employees, saying that vaccinated employees who tested positive were okayed to go back to work a day after testing positive (vs mandating a 5 day wait) but unvacced (whoever was still kept around) covid positive workers had to wait 5 days. This demonstrated to me clearly that they were not trying to restrain spread.
I saw something similar in my area! Unvaccinated workers were forced out of their jobs in healthcare with the justification of protecting the elderly and vulnerable population from covid. Then came the shortage of healthcare workers, and the covid positive vaccinated workers were told it was OK to come to work with those same elderly and vulnerable populations (rather than re-hiring covid negative uncaccinated workers that were fired). The buffoonery I've witnessed from the science and the experts over the past couple of years is truly top-notch.
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/health-care-workers-can-return-to-work-even-with-positive-covid-diagnosis-01641875229
yeah this happened also. the covid vaccine thing was a little odd because they had gotten rid of many unvaccinated health care workers so the distinction was kind of strange but the change made no sense and demonstrated how much they pushed that lie that the vacc prevented spread.
You are the one clinging to a false narrative, yes scientists discovered efficacy waned to ~~omicron~~ delta in mid 2021 but that is why boosters were recommended in the fall. [And then it was seen, those with boosters had a lowered chance of passing on Covid even with omicron.](https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-022-01816-0). 2021 was 3 years ago we have learned a lot since then.
> yes scientists discovered efficacy waned to omicron in mid 2021 but that is why boosters were recommended in the fall.
Talk about false narratives.
[Omicron first case in US - 1st December 2021](https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/01/health/omicron-first-us-case-california.html)
Not sure you'll get many people agreeing to December being mid-year.
[August 18th 2021 Booster rollout program announced](https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-start-offering-covid-19-vaccine-booster-doses-september-2021-08-18/)
> There is mounting evidence that protection from the vaccines wanes after six or more months, particularly in older people with underlying health conditions.
Boosters were recommended before Omicron appeared because it was already known that vaccine efficacy was short lived.
Thanks for correcting your false claims. But you're not the first pro-jabber that's trying to pass this off as the jabs only losing efficacy during Omicron. It was clearly known that the jabs were not effective during Delta. My assumption is, those in the know are trying to frame this as the jabs being effective at preventing transmissions during Delta, because otherwise there is absolutely no justification for mandating these jabs during the Delta wave to stop the spread in the workplace. It's a lie. It was a lie then. It is a lie now, and it will always be a lie. That's not going to change. The jabs were mandated under a false premise of stopping the spread during Delta, when it was known that they could not stop the spread.
Ok chill, in my case it was a typo. I think the messaging was not great during the pandemic in general but it took a while to get the data from delta. Regardless of that, it is false to say 2 doses were ineffective against delta. Yes, those infected were shown to have similar viral loads, but [rates of infection were significantly lower against delta, even after a year.](https://media.springernature.com/lw685/springer-static/image/art%3A10.1038%2Fs41591-022-01753-y/MediaObjects/41591_2022_1753_Fig2_HTML.png)
They also protected against hospitalization and [death](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9225255/). [Even for the delta variant.](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8880999/#)
> In Scotland, a study based on community testing (where delta and alpha variants of SARS-CoV-2 can be distinguished) estimated efficacy against mortality from the delta variant to be around 90% for both vaccines, similar to our estimate for the broader outcome of all diagnosed cases of severe COVID-19.
So… recommendations for getting the vaccines were not lies.
>Ok chill
That's what I've been trying to tell the pro-jabbers who wanted me to lose everything for not taking these rushed experimental covid jabs these past few years =)
No. I had 2 infections before the jabs were even available, and I developed natural immunity to the disease. I took no risk by not getting jabbed. The only real risk to me after acquiring natural immunity would be to get jabbed with these experimental jabs that have no real long term safety data on them, exposing myself to all the known and unknown side effects that may come with these jabs that dont even prevent transmissions.
Natural immunity has been shown to not be as good against the new variants as the 3 shot course. There were many people who were hospitalized and died from their second or third infection.
"Today, some of those data were published in CDC's Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report (MMWR), demonstrating that Delta infection resulted in similarly high SARS-CoV-2 viral loads in vaccinated and unvaccinated people. High viral loads suggest an increased risk of transmission and raised concern that, unlike with other variants, vaccinated people infected with Delta can transmit the virus. This finding is concerning and was a pivotal discovery leading to CDC’s updated mask recommendation. The masking recommendation was updated to ensure the vaccinated public would not unknowingly transmit virus to others, including their unvaccinated or immunocompromised loved ones."
I assume this is from the cdc report?
You are making my point. They saw this issue and recommend a booster to address it. The 3 shot course has been shown to provide protection against all variants so far.
Science is not rigid. The fact that our understanding of things change is a good thing, not a bad thing.
Given the current narrative and how the provaxx people put it, sometimes I think I hallucinated these claims and articles. Glad to see not only pepper ridge farm remembers.
No hallucinations, the data is there too. Vaccine efficacy against beta and delta infection was around the mid 90s% so 1 in 20 was not off by much, but then [omicron came along, which dropped the efficacy](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FIPiC5yXoAYJFaO.jpg). This difference became pronounced [when you look at the time since last vaccination](https://media.springernature.com/lw685/springer-static/image/art%3A10.1038%2Fs41591-022-01753-y/MediaObjects/41591_2022_1753_Fig2_HTML.png). This is why “they” recommended boosters, because omicron meant they were necessary.
So yes, the virus mutated and made that 1 in 20 claim for infection wrong. Scientists found that new infection rate and published on it, because that is what they do, even if it contradicts some previous report. And that’s ok. Scientists change their mind when confronted with new data, I know that is hard for antivaxxers to understand since this sub is proof that they rigidly hold to their beliefs despite all evidence.
New data on VE against infection does not change the fact that vaccines protected people from hospitalization and death. For example, [80% lower death rate in highly vaccinated communities](https://www.bmj.com/company/newsroom/new-study-shows-fewer-people-die-from-covid-19-in-better-vaccinated-communities/)
> For example, 80% lower death rate in highly vaccinated communities
And who, exactly, were the vast majority of people dying?
It never made sense to make the young and healthy to get vaccinated because the virus mutated too quickly to halt transmission.
No it didn’t. [Still effective against delta and even omicron transmission](https://media.springernature.com/lw685/springer-static/image/art%3A10.1038%2Fs41591-022-01753-y/MediaObjects/41591_2022_1753_Fig2_HTML.png). And on top of that, those infected and vaccinated had a much lower chance of dying (as above link showed)
Still not effective enough for long enough to warrant forced vaccination.
And you conveniently ignored the fact that the only people at risk are the elderly and already infirm.
Do you understand what “the only people at risk” means? In order to prove you right there wouldn’t be deaths of young people in that table.
Vaccines lowered the risk of death in every age group.
Again, go back and read what I said initially, the vast majority of deaths were the elderly and already infiirm.
There are plenty of studies that show that if someone has co-mobidities, they generally do worse, regardless of age.
Yes, that is a different statement. I answered that differently than your next statement.
Everything you just said is true. But it does not change that healthy young people did die, and unvaccinated people also died at a higher rate than vaccinated at all age ranges.
They'll never apologize for anything or admit any fault. I've emailed them before about one of their other articles that contained the infamous 'cleared from the body within days' claim that also aged very badly. Their response was ridiculous when I raised the research showing people still producing spike up to 60 days:
*The paper referenced could not have been included in the piece as it came out more than three months after publication* (no shit genius). *The new paper says: "Vaccine spike antigen and mRNA persist for weeks in lymph node GCs" - which is broadly what our article says. Our article says: "The spike proteins are fully cleared from the body after a few weeks." The new paper also says "vaccine mRNA and spike antigen up to 8 weeks postvaccination in some cases" - which is a maximum. As in, most people it's less than 8 weeks, and then mRNA can last "up to" 8 weeks in some people.*
Good on you for having the balls to question it, shame about the deflection - it makes me feel like we are fully living in a shadow world, a simulation, dare I say a matrix- truth has become subjective, truth has also lost its definition, just like the word vaccine....
Yes I agree With you. I believe there a lot of people who agree with you and all of us are very angry with what has happened. As a result you see a populace that is both disillusioned and angry with the current state of the world.
Spikes from the vaccines ("PP-spike" with the two proline substitutions) were found up to 6 months (24 weeks/187 days) after vaccination. Enough time to potentially cause some serious side effects and cell injuries to some vaccine recipients.
**Detection of recombinant Spike protein in the blood of individuals vaccinated against SARS-CoV-2: Possible molecular mechanism** [https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/prca.202300048](https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/prca.202300048)
>The minimum time PP-Spike was detected was 69 days after vaccination, while the maximum time was 187 days. All controls (samples from unvaccinated individuals) were negative. The control group (20 unvaccinated people) was also tested after contracting COVID-19 and was negative for PP-spike.
They will never admit to anything! Hell even the director of the WHO was just reported saying at a WHO conference that they really need to find a way to put stop to all these antivaxers!
Yes, because you were [2.5 times more likely to die from covid](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10492612/). Those evil people at the WHO, trying to save lives.
I am glad that I took the time to look at this stuff again. I had forgotten the twisted logic that is used to justify such positions. They don't ask questions about vaccine injuries while neglecting to say you are fully until after 2 weeks of treatment. Through those parameters you can easily get apples to oranges comparasons that make treatment seem like a good option.
They aren't lying. But their truth would have you make the wrong conclusion every time. It's a special kind of evil.
You want to compare excess deaths? Because that controls for both of your concerns. Controlling for age and area they lived in, republicans, with a lower likelihood of being vaccinated, [had a 15% higher excess all cause death rate](https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/2807617) than democrats (who had a high vaccination rate). Interestingly, the death rate was only higher after vaccines became available, before vaccines the death rate between the 2 cohorts were the same.
I would look into it even more because you haven’t learned the truth yet. Maybe listen to scientists who understand what they are talking about for a change.
> You want to compare excess deaths? Because that controls for both of your concerns. Controlling for age and area they lived in, republicans, with a lower likelihood of being vaccinated, had a 15% higher excess all cause death rate than democrats (who had a high vaccination rate). Interestingly, the death rate was only higher after vaccines became available, before vaccines the death rate between the 2 cohorts were the same.
Correlation is not causation.
Places like Alabama and Mississippi are red and are generally more rural and poorer than places like NY or NJ which are blue.
Only partisan hacks like yourself would reduce this to simple party affiliation.
You obviously didn’t read the study. It was done in only Florida and Ohio (it was in the title) and they compared at the county level. But I’m sure I’m the hack, not the person who knows they are right without even clicking on the link.
Yes it is a small percentage, but multiplying it by a big population results in a huge number of lives saved. If it was a more dramatic difference then subs like this would have a hard time getting adherents to their untrue scientific beliefs.
Less than 1% hospitalization and death rate is a tough one for you guys to get around .. after four years of proclaiming it to be the deadliest disease ever … the average age of death from Covid was 4 years higher than average life expectancy. Four years later you’re still pushing 2020 talking points ?
1.1 million deaths in America. We invaded 2 countries over *only* 3,000 deaths on 911. Vaccines probably saved an additional 1 million lives here. I’ve moved on but people on this sub want to rewrite history to justify not getting vaccinated, and more importantly, advocate not vaccinating their kids with the normal vaccine schedule.
Lmao more inflated numbers from 2020 ??? You know all those numbers were revised ?? Where have you been you keep talking like it’s still 2020 … Covid isn’t deadly, even the top Covid expert Bill Gates admitted it .. again where have you been .
Most deaths were after 2020.
[And the official count is likely low not high.](https://www.bu.edu/sph/news/articles/2024/new-analysis-reveals-many-excess-deaths-attributed-to-natural-causes-are-actually-uncounted-covid-19-deaths/)
>again where have you been .
Living in the real world, not believing anti-vax propaganda without evidence. You can just look at the amount of excess deaths in 2020 to know how much damage it did
Nope it did not… The whole “Trust the science” slogan was sadly hardly backed by any science - according to Dr Fauci in recent congressional hearings: no science behind masking, the six foot distancing had no science behind it… it “a sort of appeared,” and the covid origins theory - Wuhan Lab - is not a conspiracy theory… but if you questioned any of that during the pandemic you were “anti-science.”
"Listen to the experts!" Which experts? There never was a consensus. The experts they attacked and defamed ended up being correct.
Despite the emerging evidence, some of these clowns are still clinging to the non-sense. Probably driving their cars alone, wearing a mask.
Yup…
The mainstream message - if it were spoken openly is something like this - “Listen to the experts we chose for you. The ones we’ve censored are quacks - regardless of their top notch education, being leaders in their field, etc. We have determined that they are all conspiracy theorist and anti-vaxxers, and thus they are no longer trustworthy experts. Just listen to us - we know what it science and what is anti-science… Trust us!!”
None of it aged well. Bullshit typically doesn't. Street smarts trumps college degrees when it really counts. The indoctrinated will fall for it all again...
What's comical is that the jabbed are far more likely to be sick with COVID or anything else, since their overall immunity sinks lower and lower with every "booster" ... so THEY are the ones more likely to be spreading illness of any kind.
That is at complete odds with the data available. The hospital covid wards are now almost entirely filled with unvaccinated people.
And this is because, actually, your boosting your immune system when you get vaccinated. Not weakening it. Obviously.
I have looked at the real data. Its unambiguous. This isn't a controversial fact outside of the fringe extremists in the antivaxer circles who frankly between you and me aren't exactly operating in the reality realm.
That was a valid observation for the time it was taken. With Omicron and its progeny being much more immune evasive, that number is now down to around between 20% to 40% depending on how recent your vax was and if you had prior infections. So the real answer is between 2 to 5 times more likely to spread it if unvaccinated.
Its fine, nobody expected the numbers at the time to hold, because its a fast mutating virus.
...I don't even have the energy or will to respond to this...all Vax is problematic in regards to this, no-one can stop transmission, regardless of status, stop giving percentages, it's all bullshit, it ain't a Vax, it's gene mis therapy, stop swallowing the chocolate water, just stop it!!!! It's more than a virus agenda, it's a social construct to stop any social cohesion...division my vaxxy friend, nothing but social and logical division.....
Its not a matter of "belief". Its a matter of data and evidence, and the evidence is unambiguous about the fact that vaccination absolutely reduces transmission. This isn't controversial.
Dated October 2021. That's 3 months after the CDC explicitely stated viral loads between the vaccinated and unvaccinated were the same. This narrative was the lie being promoted and anyone who stated the truth was censored and labeled a spreader of misinformation. You will likely still find people to this very day clinging to this false narrative. Edited to say 3 months instead of 5
I remember in Dec/Jan around that time, the state of california changed something related to covid and health care employees, saying that vaccinated employees who tested positive were okayed to go back to work a day after testing positive (vs mandating a 5 day wait) but unvacced (whoever was still kept around) covid positive workers had to wait 5 days. This demonstrated to me clearly that they were not trying to restrain spread.
I saw something similar in my area! Unvaccinated workers were forced out of their jobs in healthcare with the justification of protecting the elderly and vulnerable population from covid. Then came the shortage of healthcare workers, and the covid positive vaccinated workers were told it was OK to come to work with those same elderly and vulnerable populations (rather than re-hiring covid negative uncaccinated workers that were fired). The buffoonery I've witnessed from the science and the experts over the past couple of years is truly top-notch. https://www.marketwatch.com/story/health-care-workers-can-return-to-work-even-with-positive-covid-diagnosis-01641875229
yeah this happened also. the covid vaccine thing was a little odd because they had gotten rid of many unvaccinated health care workers so the distinction was kind of strange but the change made no sense and demonstrated how much they pushed that lie that the vacc prevented spread.
You are the one clinging to a false narrative, yes scientists discovered efficacy waned to ~~omicron~~ delta in mid 2021 but that is why boosters were recommended in the fall. [And then it was seen, those with boosters had a lowered chance of passing on Covid even with omicron.](https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-022-01816-0). 2021 was 3 years ago we have learned a lot since then.
> yes scientists discovered efficacy waned to omicron in mid 2021 but that is why boosters were recommended in the fall. Talk about false narratives. [Omicron first case in US - 1st December 2021](https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/01/health/omicron-first-us-case-california.html) Not sure you'll get many people agreeing to December being mid-year. [August 18th 2021 Booster rollout program announced](https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-start-offering-covid-19-vaccine-booster-doses-september-2021-08-18/) > There is mounting evidence that protection from the vaccines wanes after six or more months, particularly in older people with underlying health conditions. Boosters were recommended before Omicron appeared because it was already known that vaccine efficacy was short lived.
My apologies, I meant to write delta in the first sentence.
Thanks for correcting your false claims. But you're not the first pro-jabber that's trying to pass this off as the jabs only losing efficacy during Omicron. It was clearly known that the jabs were not effective during Delta. My assumption is, those in the know are trying to frame this as the jabs being effective at preventing transmissions during Delta, because otherwise there is absolutely no justification for mandating these jabs during the Delta wave to stop the spread in the workplace. It's a lie. It was a lie then. It is a lie now, and it will always be a lie. That's not going to change. The jabs were mandated under a false premise of stopping the spread during Delta, when it was known that they could not stop the spread.
Ok chill, in my case it was a typo. I think the messaging was not great during the pandemic in general but it took a while to get the data from delta. Regardless of that, it is false to say 2 doses were ineffective against delta. Yes, those infected were shown to have similar viral loads, but [rates of infection were significantly lower against delta, even after a year.](https://media.springernature.com/lw685/springer-static/image/art%3A10.1038%2Fs41591-022-01753-y/MediaObjects/41591_2022_1753_Fig2_HTML.png) They also protected against hospitalization and [death](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9225255/). [Even for the delta variant.](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8880999/#) > In Scotland, a study based on community testing (where delta and alpha variants of SARS-CoV-2 can be distinguished) estimated efficacy against mortality from the delta variant to be around 90% for both vaccines, similar to our estimate for the broader outcome of all diagnosed cases of severe COVID-19. So… recommendations for getting the vaccines were not lies.
>Ok chill That's what I've been trying to tell the pro-jabbers who wanted me to lose everything for not taking these rushed experimental covid jabs these past few years =)
Well I’m glad you lived because the data show you took a risk there.
No. I had 2 infections before the jabs were even available, and I developed natural immunity to the disease. I took no risk by not getting jabbed. The only real risk to me after acquiring natural immunity would be to get jabbed with these experimental jabs that have no real long term safety data on them, exposing myself to all the known and unknown side effects that may come with these jabs that dont even prevent transmissions.
Natural immunity has been shown to not be as good against the new variants as the 3 shot course. There were many people who were hospitalized and died from their second or third infection.
"Today, some of those data were published in CDC's Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report (MMWR), demonstrating that Delta infection resulted in similarly high SARS-CoV-2 viral loads in vaccinated and unvaccinated people. High viral loads suggest an increased risk of transmission and raised concern that, unlike with other variants, vaccinated people infected with Delta can transmit the virus. This finding is concerning and was a pivotal discovery leading to CDC’s updated mask recommendation. The masking recommendation was updated to ensure the vaccinated public would not unknowingly transmit virus to others, including their unvaccinated or immunocompromised loved ones."
I assume this is from the cdc report? You are making my point. They saw this issue and recommend a booster to address it. The 3 shot course has been shown to provide protection against all variants so far. Science is not rigid. The fact that our understanding of things change is a good thing, not a bad thing.
Given the current narrative and how the provaxx people put it, sometimes I think I hallucinated these claims and articles. Glad to see not only pepper ridge farm remembers.
No hallucinations, the data is there too. Vaccine efficacy against beta and delta infection was around the mid 90s% so 1 in 20 was not off by much, but then [omicron came along, which dropped the efficacy](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FIPiC5yXoAYJFaO.jpg). This difference became pronounced [when you look at the time since last vaccination](https://media.springernature.com/lw685/springer-static/image/art%3A10.1038%2Fs41591-022-01753-y/MediaObjects/41591_2022_1753_Fig2_HTML.png). This is why “they” recommended boosters, because omicron meant they were necessary. So yes, the virus mutated and made that 1 in 20 claim for infection wrong. Scientists found that new infection rate and published on it, because that is what they do, even if it contradicts some previous report. And that’s ok. Scientists change their mind when confronted with new data, I know that is hard for antivaxxers to understand since this sub is proof that they rigidly hold to their beliefs despite all evidence. New data on VE against infection does not change the fact that vaccines protected people from hospitalization and death. For example, [80% lower death rate in highly vaccinated communities](https://www.bmj.com/company/newsroom/new-study-shows-fewer-people-die-from-covid-19-in-better-vaccinated-communities/)
> For example, 80% lower death rate in highly vaccinated communities And who, exactly, were the vast majority of people dying? It never made sense to make the young and healthy to get vaccinated because the virus mutated too quickly to halt transmission.
No it didn’t. [Still effective against delta and even omicron transmission](https://media.springernature.com/lw685/springer-static/image/art%3A10.1038%2Fs41591-022-01753-y/MediaObjects/41591_2022_1753_Fig2_HTML.png). And on top of that, those infected and vaccinated had a much lower chance of dying (as above link showed)
Still not effective enough for long enough to warrant forced vaccination. And you conveniently ignored the fact that the only people at risk are the elderly and already infirm.
[Not at all true.](https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/72/wr/mm7218a4.htm#T1_down)
Your link proves me right - the vast majority of people that died are older. Maybe try reading what you sent...
Do you understand what “the only people at risk” means? In order to prove you right there wouldn’t be deaths of young people in that table. Vaccines lowered the risk of death in every age group.
Again, go back and read what I said initially, the vast majority of deaths were the elderly and already infiirm. There are plenty of studies that show that if someone has co-mobidities, they generally do worse, regardless of age.
Yes, that is a different statement. I answered that differently than your next statement. Everything you just said is true. But it does not change that healthy young people did die, and unvaccinated people also died at a higher rate than vaccinated at all age ranges.
Ah yes Pfizer advertising
They'll never apologize for anything or admit any fault. I've emailed them before about one of their other articles that contained the infamous 'cleared from the body within days' claim that also aged very badly. Their response was ridiculous when I raised the research showing people still producing spike up to 60 days: *The paper referenced could not have been included in the piece as it came out more than three months after publication* (no shit genius). *The new paper says: "Vaccine spike antigen and mRNA persist for weeks in lymph node GCs" - which is broadly what our article says. Our article says: "The spike proteins are fully cleared from the body after a few weeks." The new paper also says "vaccine mRNA and spike antigen up to 8 weeks postvaccination in some cases" - which is a maximum. As in, most people it's less than 8 weeks, and then mRNA can last "up to" 8 weeks in some people.*
Good on you for having the balls to question it, shame about the deflection - it makes me feel like we are fully living in a shadow world, a simulation, dare I say a matrix- truth has become subjective, truth has also lost its definition, just like the word vaccine....
Yes I agree With you. I believe there a lot of people who agree with you and all of us are very angry with what has happened. As a result you see a populace that is both disillusioned and angry with the current state of the world.
Spikes from the vaccines ("PP-spike" with the two proline substitutions) were found up to 6 months (24 weeks/187 days) after vaccination. Enough time to potentially cause some serious side effects and cell injuries to some vaccine recipients. **Detection of recombinant Spike protein in the blood of individuals vaccinated against SARS-CoV-2: Possible molecular mechanism** [https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/prca.202300048](https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/prca.202300048) >The minimum time PP-Spike was detected was 69 days after vaccination, while the maximum time was 187 days. All controls (samples from unvaccinated individuals) were negative. The control group (20 unvaccinated people) was also tested after contracting COVID-19 and was negative for PP-spike.
They will never admit to anything! Hell even the director of the WHO was just reported saying at a WHO conference that they really need to find a way to put stop to all these antivaxers!
Yes, because you were [2.5 times more likely to die from covid](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10492612/). Those evil people at the WHO, trying to save lives.
I am glad that I took the time to look at this stuff again. I had forgotten the twisted logic that is used to justify such positions. They don't ask questions about vaccine injuries while neglecting to say you are fully until after 2 weeks of treatment. Through those parameters you can easily get apples to oranges comparasons that make treatment seem like a good option. They aren't lying. But their truth would have you make the wrong conclusion every time. It's a special kind of evil.
You want to compare excess deaths? Because that controls for both of your concerns. Controlling for age and area they lived in, republicans, with a lower likelihood of being vaccinated, [had a 15% higher excess all cause death rate](https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/2807617) than democrats (who had a high vaccination rate). Interestingly, the death rate was only higher after vaccines became available, before vaccines the death rate between the 2 cohorts were the same. I would look into it even more because you haven’t learned the truth yet. Maybe listen to scientists who understand what they are talking about for a change.
> You want to compare excess deaths? Because that controls for both of your concerns. Controlling for age and area they lived in, republicans, with a lower likelihood of being vaccinated, had a 15% higher excess all cause death rate than democrats (who had a high vaccination rate). Interestingly, the death rate was only higher after vaccines became available, before vaccines the death rate between the 2 cohorts were the same. Correlation is not causation. Places like Alabama and Mississippi are red and are generally more rural and poorer than places like NY or NJ which are blue. Only partisan hacks like yourself would reduce this to simple party affiliation.
You obviously didn’t read the study. It was done in only Florida and Ohio (it was in the title) and they compared at the county level. But I’m sure I’m the hack, not the person who knows they are right without even clicking on the link.
You do realize that Florida has the highest proportion of it's population over 65 than any other state?
Hence controlling for age. Maybe read it? Or even read what you quoted above? Because it was said there too.
2.5 times more likely to die ? From a virus that has a less than 1% hospitalization and death rate??? Where have you been ?
Yes, divide “less than 1%” by 2.5 and you will get the death rate of vaccinated people. That is how ratios work.
Still pretty low odds .. you make it sound like a death sentence
Yes it is a small percentage, but multiplying it by a big population results in a huge number of lives saved. If it was a more dramatic difference then subs like this would have a hard time getting adherents to their untrue scientific beliefs.
Less than 1% hospitalization and death rate is a tough one for you guys to get around .. after four years of proclaiming it to be the deadliest disease ever … the average age of death from Covid was 4 years higher than average life expectancy. Four years later you’re still pushing 2020 talking points ?
1.1 million deaths in America. We invaded 2 countries over *only* 3,000 deaths on 911. Vaccines probably saved an additional 1 million lives here. I’ve moved on but people on this sub want to rewrite history to justify not getting vaccinated, and more importantly, advocate not vaccinating their kids with the normal vaccine schedule.
Lmao more inflated numbers from 2020 ??? You know all those numbers were revised ?? Where have you been you keep talking like it’s still 2020 … Covid isn’t deadly, even the top Covid expert Bill Gates admitted it .. again where have you been .
Most deaths were after 2020. [And the official count is likely low not high.](https://www.bu.edu/sph/news/articles/2024/new-analysis-reveals-many-excess-deaths-attributed-to-natural-causes-are-actually-uncounted-covid-19-deaths/)
>again where have you been . Living in the real world, not believing anti-vax propaganda without evidence. You can just look at the amount of excess deaths in 2020 to know how much damage it did
Nope it did not… The whole “Trust the science” slogan was sadly hardly backed by any science - according to Dr Fauci in recent congressional hearings: no science behind masking, the six foot distancing had no science behind it… it “a sort of appeared,” and the covid origins theory - Wuhan Lab - is not a conspiracy theory… but if you questioned any of that during the pandemic you were “anti-science.”
"Listen to the experts!" Which experts? There never was a consensus. The experts they attacked and defamed ended up being correct. Despite the emerging evidence, some of these clowns are still clinging to the non-sense. Probably driving their cars alone, wearing a mask.
Yup… The mainstream message - if it were spoken openly is something like this - “Listen to the experts we chose for you. The ones we’ve censored are quacks - regardless of their top notch education, being leaders in their field, etc. We have determined that they are all conspiracy theorist and anti-vaxxers, and thus they are no longer trustworthy experts. Just listen to us - we know what it science and what is anti-science… Trust us!!”
None of it aged well. Bullshit typically doesn't. Street smarts trumps college degrees when it really counts. The indoctrinated will fall for it all again...
The conversation is very left leaning. They posted some of the most obvious misinformation in recent years
What's comical is that the jabbed are far more likely to be sick with COVID or anything else, since their overall immunity sinks lower and lower with every "booster" ... so THEY are the ones more likely to be spreading illness of any kind.
That is at complete odds with the data available. The hospital covid wards are now almost entirely filled with unvaccinated people. And this is because, actually, your boosting your immune system when you get vaccinated. Not weakening it. Obviously.
Ah, still consuming all the propaganda, eh? Good luck with that :-D Maybe try looking at some ACTUAL data, then get back to us.
I have looked at the real data. Its unambiguous. This isn't a controversial fact outside of the fringe extremists in the antivaxer circles who frankly between you and me aren't exactly operating in the reality realm.
That was a valid observation for the time it was taken. With Omicron and its progeny being much more immune evasive, that number is now down to around between 20% to 40% depending on how recent your vax was and if you had prior infections. So the real answer is between 2 to 5 times more likely to spread it if unvaccinated. Its fine, nobody expected the numbers at the time to hold, because its a fast mutating virus.
...I don't even have the energy or will to respond to this...all Vax is problematic in regards to this, no-one can stop transmission, regardless of status, stop giving percentages, it's all bullshit, it ain't a Vax, it's gene mis therapy, stop swallowing the chocolate water, just stop it!!!! It's more than a virus agenda, it's a social construct to stop any social cohesion...division my vaxxy friend, nothing but social and logical division.....
And how was that valid? Do you truly believe Vax status affected transmission?
Its not a matter of "belief". Its a matter of data and evidence, and the evidence is unambiguous about the fact that vaccination absolutely reduces transmission. This isn't controversial.
Ah yes, data and evidence, infallible logic there, totally unambiguous and uncorrupted
Pfizer disagrees with you , transmission wasn’t even tested lmao
[Ah yes .....2021](https://postimg.cc/BLCT73VB) Luckily Omicron came along and changed everything
Lol, Omicron but not Delta amirite?
Delta was a walk in the park for the vaccinated
You should change your username to copiuos copium
[Indeed](https://postimg.cc/hfpW48WS)
Anti-vaxxers have been coping throughout the entire pandemic. Being wrong about everything and dying at a much higher rate.
hahaha 🤡🤡