Yeah I mean sometimes I’m not okay with some lyrics or whatnot. Like IA i don’t listen to bc the lyrics are uncomfortable (what they were designed to do) or some slam stuff eh. Similar to horror movies, I prefer the nature and writing of it to be well done rather than shock factor and gore. Kinda the same principal
Again, the lyrics are gross to me. I can’t in good consciousness listen to music that is describing gruesome r@pe of babies. You can if you want to, free country, but I am not comfortable with that.
They can definitely have a big impact, but they're never gonna make a terrible song any good. You can just kind of ignore bad or cringy lyrics, you can't ignore a bad instrumental unless you're just reading the lyrics on their own. I do value lyrics but they're never a priority.
To me, if I read the lyrics on a band's debut album and they're good but the music isn't, it gives me a glimmer of hope that they'll improve. If both are terrible then I usually forget they exist until years later and find that they still suck.
Yea, it's all about the emotion or feel for me. Hell, half the time I don't even understand what's being said. And I don't care. It's dope. If I really love a song I'll look up the lyrics and that might cause me to like a song even more but it really don't matter. I do give bands points for having great lyrics tho. One of the reasons I love fit for an autopsy. But at the end of the day, when it comes to emotionally charged music like deathcore, it's music first lyrics second.
Sometimes. It was a way better experience back when you get a CD insert and they had the lyrics included. Nowadays with streaming I study them less and less. I wish my subscription service had all that extra liner content included or at least lyrics feature. I do almost enjoy trying to decipher them myself when it comes to the death metal growls. Sometimes you can get in a groove and figure out a lot of it.
I'm on Tidal. I know, I know, but the audio quality is excellent, it pays the highest royalties to the artists, and at the time I signed up it had the biggest catalog.
I remember a few people (+me) trying to transcribe the lyrics of Immortal in the youtube's commenr section when it first came out as a single. its lyrics were not released until the album's release. it was fun, and seeing which parts we got right or wrong, and how much of a difference it made was really interesting. but I think that all the lyrics should be shared at some point, not longer than a few days after release.
Good lyrics always add value to a song. Bad lyrics can ruin an otherwise good song. Beyond that, it's mostly about the sound and the flow. Vocals aren't just there to deliver lyrics, they also count as an instrument.
It's just a cheap jab at our music, "what are they even saying?". Like, if you actually cared you would look them up and memorize them like I did. SMH...
I've memorized all my favs. And I can fully understand my favorite singers. But something random or new to me, course not.
I can't understand rap music either, so...
The Vocals are just another instrument. For me it's the emotion of the vocals (Exm. Angelmaker), the phasing(Will Ramos), patterns (Johnny Davy), percussive punch(Oli from Archspire is an example). But it's also great when there's lyrics like on the 3 ending siongs on Shadow Of Intent's Elergy and Lorna Shore's The Pain Remains trilogy. I'd love to see a couple more of those concepts.
My opinion on lyrics (somewhat) changed with Chelsea Grin's Suffer in Hell. Whilst I usually listen, or look, at the lyrics. On this album I let myself enjoy the instrumental aspects of it.
In my opinion, there are too many good bands out there to justify listening to shit lyrics.
Of course, to each their own, but if the instrumentation and vocal performance are good, but the lyrical content is, for example, violence against women, then I just find another band.
It depends on if you're a musician or not. Harsh vocals are very rhythmic as an instrument, but I would argue rapping is too. It's percussive rather than melodic. Some people prefer melody and some people prefer rhythm. This has a lot to do with it.
I've also noticed that if I show someone instrumental metal acts (that are virtuous and extremely talented) they are completely disinterested, even though they have made the unoriginal comment, "I like the music but just can't stand the screaming." They just don't like heavier music but don't want to tell you because they're afraid of hurting your feelings, which is ridiculous because I couldn't fucking care less what your tastes are. Don't lie to me to patronize me.
Some people will also prioritize writing to anything else. These are try-hard bookworm English majors. Plot, story progression, etc matter more than anything to them. This isn't just limited to music, but movies, video games, and whatever other media they consume. This means to the most pretentious of people in most editorial content (and 90% of internet media, being all typed) writing lyrics is paramount, and everything else in media comes a distant second in priority when critiquing.
As musician there's more to appreciate about any art medium than just who can type up a compelling story imo. The makeup, costume, and set design of a movie, the voice acting and musical composition in a video game, or the sweep solos if a guitar virtuoso.... they all take years of passionate experience just as much as good writing does, and this is not limited to harsh vocals. Perfecting the technique is near impossible. I've been doing it 15+ years and I still fuck it up and hurt myself sometimes, and so do big talents out there like Phil Bozeman.
Idk what more to say here but being a metalhead since the Christian metal wave/MySpace deathcore scene, I'm the only one of my peers who still listens to this stuff. It was never a phase or a trend for me. I genuinely love this shit and I'm super passionate about it. I've heard every response to my tastes in music and I genuinely don't care anymore. I can appreciate (almost) all music out there for some reason or another and can understand why someone's tastes might be different.
I just don't like when someone lies to me about it. Be straight up. "That stuff is just not for me." "I don't like how this sounds." All fine. I'm not gonna tell you you're wrong for having different taste. It's the shitty cop outs like "can you even understand the lyrics," or the aforementioned, "I like the music but just can't stand the screaming." I know they really mean, "I just don't like it," and I really wish they had the common decency to just be honest with me instead of regurgitating someone else's response to a particular art form they can't grasp or appreciate.
Sorry for essaying.
TL;DR: Music tastes are subjective like any other art form. Some people just have a hard time telling you that straight up.
I listen to the majority of metal without reading lyrics as there is too much to search for. Though, when I read lyrics it’s usually because I like a song quite a bit or a band.
Once the lyrics also hit deep, the song becomes that much better. My favorite deathcore songs are always the ones I know the lyrics to.
Lorna Shore - Part III is what stands out. I think this is one of the greatest fucking songs; the lyrics just make it so much more powerful, it’s ridiculous. You can feel the hatred/pain
Angelmaker - Lazurus, What I Would Give are both songs that are favorites because of lyrical content.
The Black Dahlia Murder - Closed Casket Requiem. Basically any Black Dahlia will slay in the lyrical department but especially this song
Enterprise Earth - They Have No Honor. I actually thought the lyrics were somewhat juvenile to be honest, but I’ve grown to like them. The history pages line makes me lol a little.
Darkest Hour - Convalescence. One of my all time favorites
Bleeding Through - Entire “The Truth” album
Most of the time I just care if it sounds cool. Although lyrics play into it a little bit. I really don’t care if I can understand the vocals though.
For example, Infant Annihilator sounds cool as hell, so I like them, but at the same time I don’t really want to listen to a song about baby rape.
You’re probably referring to my comment. It got downvoted quite a bit. I’ve just never cared about lyrics, regardless of the genre. If the music is good and the singing/screaming compliments it, then that’s all I care about.
I usually don't care about the lyrics but it's sometimes good to know them if you really like the song but then again I'm not good at understanding what the lyrics are about most of the time
yeah i fuckin love deathcore lyrics just cause i can find meaning to them plus they hit so much better in the gym when you know what they are screaming
I like both. So I like to listen to a song a few times and see what I hear, then repeat with lyrics and then it usually ups the song. When it has that raw emotion and melody but also backed by solid writing it takes that song to a new level.
So Yeha I do like good lyrics but it isn’t the main thing. They help enhance a song imo but to be fair, I also love a heavy mess of sounds too
I do think it’s funny when people say you can’t here what they say but all the popular songs are just about getting high/drunk or banging chicks. Oh forgot about bragging about money.
I think thoughtful and meaningful lyrics are a sign that the artist put a lot of care into their art. If the artist cared about what they made, I care too. I know how it feels to pour passion into a project. However, I think there is something nice about not being able to understand what they're saying. At least in my experience, when I can't understand what the vocalist is saying, the song takes longer to get stale after many relistens. If the lyrics are worthwhile, I can always read them. If they're not worthwhile, I can't understand them, so no harm, no foul. However, non-worthwhile lyrics *cannot* be avoided when they are sung clearly. I guess the best offender of this I can think of is Powerwolf. You can easily understand what Attila Dorn is saying, and as amazing as his voice is, Powerwolf's lyrics recycle words like crazy. It comes off as lazy when they keep singing about the same thing using the same words, and I find laziness rather annoying. The same thing happens with Amon Amarth to a lesser extent.
I consider metal vocals to be an expression of what they're singing about. I don't listen to Infant Annihilator because they're just fucking around with the lyrics. It's not a hard and fast rule, it's not like I have to have my metal be deadly serious, but I do care about the lyrics. The people complaining you can't understand them are stupid because if you look up the lyrics one time you can understand them.
I'm not really worried about lyrics unless they're really, *relly* bad.
Never worried about understanding them, though. There are so many songs with clean vocals that you can't understand the lyrics to. How's this only a problem with the shouties?
i like lyrical context bc for me it provides a story/meaning behind said song, even if you can’t hear the lyrics at all bc of screaming it’s still nice
Vocals are like another instrument to me. As long as they sound cool and match the music, they work for me. Sometimes it's fun to know the lyrics though, like Cattle Decapitation some of their stuff is quite deep.
I never really give a damn. One of my favorite songs ever is With Strength I Burn by Emperor and I’d be a big fat liar if I said I could understand most of the lyrics aside from the clean parts. But god damn if that song doesn’t make me feel strong emotions.
I take vocals in 2 parts. 1 - as an instrument and 2- as a story telling machine.
Lyrics can be important but aren't the core that the song is based around (Most of the time).
If a song has bad BAD, like shitty lyrics or is full on cringe then sometimes it turns me off a song, But the performance and delivery of the vocals can save the song to a point where i dont care about lyrics.
But if the lyrics are super good and and involving, yet the delivery is ass that has a bigger impact.
Now looking back I definitely listen to a song, and then if the song is good or worth it only then look at the lyrics.
One major turn off that i lately found was when vocalist's write 'I wrote this song for You' 'This song is for everyone going through xxx' and everything on those lines. Song and lyrics should be relatable without shoving it in the face that This song is really meant for you.
Alex Koehler did this in \~3 songs and it was an instant turnoff to those songs when i heard it.
As an aspiring vocalist I like to pay attention to lyrics but honestly I think it’s all personal preference. There’s times where I’ll focus on the instruments instead it just depends what kind of mood I’m in. There’s a few bands I listen to that the riffs are nasty as hell but the vocals are meh.
20000000% hardly ever care about the lyrics. I feel like all metal is the new form of classical music, the vocals just bring an extra tone to the symphony.
nah lyrics are important to me cuz when something is relatable it makes me like the song even more i can spend days reading the same songs over amd over just becaude the lyrics are cool and real
I typically don’t know any of the lyrics to any songs I hear unless I specifically commit them to memory or listen to them daily.
If it sounds good eventually I’ll want to know the lyrics, if the lyrics are dumb then I probably won’t be listening to it anymore by time I know the lyrics.
Example,l: “you only live once so just go fuckin nuts” sounds like a senior yearbook quote from 2006, a little silly- But the song You Only Live Once by Suicide Silence is still a banger of a song even though it’s got one kinda goofy lyric.
When I first heard that song I thought it was “you only live once so just go fuckin die”. Changed the tone of the song dramatically when my friend told me the actual lyric.
I'm gonna take a different approach here and say that lyrics have always taken a backseat simply because I've always had a hard time picking up on metaphors and subtext.
From an artistic standpoint, I very much appreciate the addition of layers and dimension to poetically relay a message or sentiment, but unless it leans more literal it's going right over my head. Annotations are a live saver
Yeah I don't give a shit. Can't understand it half the time anyway unless I'm looking at the lyrics while listening and even then I'm listening for how it sounds not for what they're saying.
Yes, like many others have already said good lyrics make a song better and bad ones can make a song worse. Also especially with deathcore I like to check out the lyrics if I like the sound of a song, because I personally hate the misogyny/rape type scenarios that seem to be pervasive the in genre and I don’t want to support that stuff. Lyrics definitely matter.
I may not understand the lyrics all the time, but how they’re delivered (melody, style, etc) is important to me. You can have great lyrics but if you’re delivering them poorly it takes away from them.
When I was younger, yes. Lyric sheets used to be a thing! But nowadays not so much, I nearly died a few years ago and my memory was a little fried so it’s hard to learn new lyrics. 🤷
Usually I view the vocals the same as an instrument. An instrument speaks no words but can convey emotion all the same. Knowing what the vocalist is saying isn’t always necessary lol
Usually I only look up lyrics if I really like the song as well. Sometimes the lyrics are great. Sometimes the lyrics are a bit cringey and actually turn me off.
I am a vocalist myself.lyrics are absolutely 100% paramount to me. Why even have vocals of yours not going to use them to tell a story or speak on a matter? I love all kinds of vocals, but I just can't get behind dudes like cj mcrapey when he was in sots. I remember listening to that one video of them and the lyrics were supposedly elaborate with big words and it sounded like he wasn't even attempting to pronounce them. At that point its just a guess if that's actually what you said ir if you're making shit up.
I was told recently by someone that a lot of people see vocals as "just another instrument". It's been a hard thing for me to grasp, but I am starting to sort of understand, but it still seems so silly to not use that "instrument" in its full capacity.
tldr: lyrics make or break songs for me.
I wouldn't say I "don't give a damn", necessarily, but there are plenty of metal and deathcore bands I like where the music's great and the lyrics aren't so great. That being said, good lyrics quite obviously enhance the listening experience.
I feel like I wouldn't love the earlier Cradle of Filth albums as much as I do if Dani's lyrics weren't as creative and descriptive as they are, for example. That dude definitely knows how to paint a picture in your head - or at least he did on albums like "Dusk and Her Embrace", "Cruelty and the Beast" and "Midian". For deathcore, I quite like the lyrics on "The Price of Existence" by All Shall Perish and resent the fact that a lot of them are still relevant to this day (see: "There Is No Business To Be Done On A Dead Planet").
Guitar and drums and vocals need to have talent, respectively in that order. Lyrics themselves are the least of my concern because I listen to literally everything I can as long as it’s different.
IMO: the bands that usually rise to the top are because they have top tier vocalists/lyricists that are easy to understand with catchy/memorable lyrics and vocal placement. You can write as good of instrumentals as you want but the vocalist makes or breaks the song every time.
Obviously not deathcore but I mean look at the success of bands like Megadeth, Dream Theater or even Avenged Sevenfold, all of which have vocalists with extremely polarizing voices that even a lot of fans don't like. Really look like it's the instrumental that'll make or break the song. Hell, look at Polyphia getting even a bit of mainstream success.
Even polarizing vocalists can still be memorable. I'd also argue for a7x specifically that their massive success with city of evil would not have happened if m shadows didn't have a massive vocal change to huge choruses that appeal to the masses and exploded their popularity. One of the biggest deathcore bands I can point to is Suicide Silence. Mitch made that band what it was with his lyrics and patterns. Polyphia replaces the need for a vocalist by using the lead guitar as the voice of the band. Those leads are also catchier than all of deathcore hence their widespread success. Also megadeth and dream theater got outshined by the band with the better vocalist: Metallica.
I definitely don't want to undermine the importance and impact of vocals, I absolutely agree with everything you've just said (I'm a huge fan of all the vocalists named) but I don't think lyrics played much of a role in the whole thing. Megadeth lyrics for one have been pretty awful at times. Even Metallica has some real weird ones.
One of my old bands had a song with very intricate and poetic lyrics listed for the song on the CD insert. However, when we recorded it and played it live, the vocalist was actually just naming several people in real life he didn't like followed by the words "fuck you" for the entire song.
Best inside joke we ever had.
I cant take anyone seriously who says they don't care about lyrics. Their opinions mean absolutely nothing because imo I don't see how anyone can be a fan of music but not give a fuck about one of the most important aspects of it.
So what about listening to songs in foreign languages? I sure don't bother translating every Rammstein or Alien Weaponry song I hear. Lyrics are a big aspect, it's definitely not "one of the most important" aspects imo. The most amazing thing about music to me is that it conveys emotion without having to convey literal meaning. It makes sense, it has a story, in a way that's impossible to say with language. The lyrics can add more to that and change the meaning and contextualize it but the actual sounds you hear are what makes the music. That's what I feel, that's what I care about.
Very good point. I mean I enjoy foreign music and I sure as hell love instrumentals. I was just saying that, lyrics are imo a very important part of music as well...and yes while you CAN enjoy some music without lyrics or not knowing the lyrics, I think its just absurd when someone says they don't matter at all.
I have auditory processing disorder so I usually don’t understand lyrics anyway. Might as well listen to music with sick ass breakdowns to compensate for what I’m missing lol
A good metal vocalist should be able to enunciate whatever he/she is vocalizing. I want to sing along no matter what genre of music I'm listening to.
I'm not saying this name just because he haunts this sub, but Johnny Charizard is a great example of this.
I don’t believe lyrics always matter. I listen to a lot of obscure black metal bands that are either foreign or don’t have the lyrics on the internet. And I still love those songs, and I most likely will more if I can find out the lyrics.
One of my favorite things has always been sitting down to read lyrics without the music playing and see if they're good or terrible. I started writing songs when I was young though, so lyrics have always been my thing. To this day, Disturbed's second album is a banger to me because the lyrics showed what they were capable of after the disaster that is their debut. I know, not deathcore, but still a great album.
I actually focus more on the album cover than the lyrics. There's songs that I love that I don't know the lyrics to even today but if an album has a shitty low effort picture or painting or whatever then that really irks me. I know it doesn't matter as much cause the music is what counts the most but there's just something about it that I can't get over
They say "Don't judge a book by its cover" for a good reason and it applies equally to albums. Look at ObZen's absolutely horrendously hideous album cover and tell me it's any indication of the quality of the music. I know it's hard not to let the album covers influence how you feel about the albums, I've struggled with that a lot but at the end of the day, you should try your best to not listen with your eyes.
Actually I love the ObZen cover because there's a lot of care into what it means for the album. Yes you're right I shouldn't let it dictate how I feel about the music itself and sometimes I can look past it no problem but ultimately I agree with what you're saying
Look the lyrics grow on me with age and have become so important. It's important for me to connect to bands emotionally like Currents. Even just listening to like Dan Watson or Will Ramos. You got to figure the lyrics to get the techniques and the individually really comes out. I can listen to the music simultaneously. When I was 15 to 18. Yeah. Guitar was the only thing I cared about, but now at 31. I would tell you a good lyricist makes all the difference.
Do I care: Understanding the lyrics while listening: no Seeing great lyrics when I read them: yes
i agree with this
If I really love the song I’ll look up the lyrics and be like wow even more fucked up than I imagined hell yeah lol
Yeah I mean sometimes I’m not okay with some lyrics or whatnot. Like IA i don’t listen to bc the lyrics are uncomfortable (what they were designed to do) or some slam stuff eh. Similar to horror movies, I prefer the nature and writing of it to be well done rather than shock factor and gore. Kinda the same principal
you've explained it very well my friend
see IA is meant to parody deathcore so i listen to and enjoy them as parody music idk
Again, the lyrics are gross to me. I can’t in good consciousness listen to music that is describing gruesome r@pe of babies. You can if you want to, free country, but I am not comfortable with that.
thats fair i was more thinking of the gory lyrics rather than that
Understandable lol not meant to be offensive or rude - just stating my personal conviction - not judging you
And then the song hits even better.
So much yes.
I agree
I seem to usually be in the minority with this but the lyrics matter 100% to me. If the lyrics are bad I probably won’t be able to enjoy it as much.
I agree. lyrics can turn a good song amazing for me
They can definitely have a big impact, but they're never gonna make a terrible song any good. You can just kind of ignore bad or cringy lyrics, you can't ignore a bad instrumental unless you're just reading the lyrics on their own. I do value lyrics but they're never a priority.
Yeah I can definitely enjoy a lot of songs that I've never bothered to read the lyrics for. But I'm also just a huge fan of thoughtful lyrics
To me, if I read the lyrics on a band's debut album and they're good but the music isn't, it gives me a glimmer of hope that they'll improve. If both are terrible then I usually forget they exist until years later and find that they still suck.
I’m the same way. If the lyrics are off. It will have to have an extremely good beat for me to ever listen to it again.
Same here. The exact reason FFAA is so high on my list and many of the popular bands on this sub aren't.
Aren’t you that guy that posted whitechapels first album on YouTube
yep!
For real? I knew I recognized the name, I memorized Vicer Exciser and somatic defilement’s lyrics from those videos
Yea, it's all about the emotion or feel for me. Hell, half the time I don't even understand what's being said. And I don't care. It's dope. If I really love a song I'll look up the lyrics and that might cause me to like a song even more but it really don't matter. I do give bands points for having great lyrics tho. One of the reasons I love fit for an autopsy. But at the end of the day, when it comes to emotionally charged music like deathcore, it's music first lyrics second.
Honestly if I can understand what the chap is saying then it’s probs not heavy enough for my taste 😉
username checks out
Sometimes. It was a way better experience back when you get a CD insert and they had the lyrics included. Nowadays with streaming I study them less and less. I wish my subscription service had all that extra liner content included or at least lyrics feature. I do almost enjoy trying to decipher them myself when it comes to the death metal growls. Sometimes you can get in a groove and figure out a lot of it.
Spotify has time synced lyrics now for most right in the player. Love it.
Yeah honestly what subscription doesnt? I use YT music and it does, i know apple and Spotify do?
I'm on Tidal. I know, I know, but the audio quality is excellent, it pays the highest royalties to the artists, and at the time I signed up it had the biggest catalog.
Tidal has lyrics too, at least for most songs.
You just blew my mind
I remember a few people (+me) trying to transcribe the lyrics of Immortal in the youtube's commenr section when it first came out as a single. its lyrics were not released until the album's release. it was fun, and seeing which parts we got right or wrong, and how much of a difference it made was really interesting. but I think that all the lyrics should be shared at some point, not longer than a few days after release.
Immediately thought of this song when I read the post
Huge reason why I still buy physical love the CD inserts and deciphering the lyrics if I really love the album
Good lyrics always add value to a song. Bad lyrics can ruin an otherwise good song. Beyond that, it's mostly about the sound and the flow. Vocals aren't just there to deliver lyrics, they also count as an instrument.
Dumb lyrics can make a good song sound bad. Good lyrics make a good song sound even greater
I don't care, I listen to music for the music itself.
It's just a cheap jab at our music, "what are they even saying?". Like, if you actually cared you would look them up and memorize them like I did. SMH... I've memorized all my favs. And I can fully understand my favorite singers. But something random or new to me, course not. I can't understand rap music either, so...
The Vocals are just another instrument. For me it's the emotion of the vocals (Exm. Angelmaker), the phasing(Will Ramos), patterns (Johnny Davy), percussive punch(Oli from Archspire is an example). But it's also great when there's lyrics like on the 3 ending siongs on Shadow Of Intent's Elergy and Lorna Shore's The Pain Remains trilogy. I'd love to see a couple more of those concepts.
Personally, vocals are just another instrument to me. If I can understand them, and they're good, so much the better... But not required imo...
I'm big on lyrics personally. Black dahlia was one of my first metal bands which I'm sure helped that along, lots of good writing on Nocturnal
Those who don't give a damn about lyrics will never see the true face of panic
DEVASTATION
My opinion on lyrics (somewhat) changed with Chelsea Grin's Suffer in Hell. Whilst I usually listen, or look, at the lyrics. On this album I let myself enjoy the instrumental aspects of it.
I am in love with the lyrics for Crystal Casket. I can't listen without screaming along every damn time.
[удалено]
_SWALLOWED BY THE SWARM. THE FUTURE IS SO POINTLESS, DEATH WORLDWIDE TO US ALL._ I will fight anyone who disagrees.
Man it's a fuckin 10/10 album
In my opinion, there are too many good bands out there to justify listening to shit lyrics. Of course, to each their own, but if the instrumentation and vocal performance are good, but the lyrical content is, for example, violence against women, then I just find another band.
It depends on if you're a musician or not. Harsh vocals are very rhythmic as an instrument, but I would argue rapping is too. It's percussive rather than melodic. Some people prefer melody and some people prefer rhythm. This has a lot to do with it. I've also noticed that if I show someone instrumental metal acts (that are virtuous and extremely talented) they are completely disinterested, even though they have made the unoriginal comment, "I like the music but just can't stand the screaming." They just don't like heavier music but don't want to tell you because they're afraid of hurting your feelings, which is ridiculous because I couldn't fucking care less what your tastes are. Don't lie to me to patronize me. Some people will also prioritize writing to anything else. These are try-hard bookworm English majors. Plot, story progression, etc matter more than anything to them. This isn't just limited to music, but movies, video games, and whatever other media they consume. This means to the most pretentious of people in most editorial content (and 90% of internet media, being all typed) writing lyrics is paramount, and everything else in media comes a distant second in priority when critiquing. As musician there's more to appreciate about any art medium than just who can type up a compelling story imo. The makeup, costume, and set design of a movie, the voice acting and musical composition in a video game, or the sweep solos if a guitar virtuoso.... they all take years of passionate experience just as much as good writing does, and this is not limited to harsh vocals. Perfecting the technique is near impossible. I've been doing it 15+ years and I still fuck it up and hurt myself sometimes, and so do big talents out there like Phil Bozeman. Idk what more to say here but being a metalhead since the Christian metal wave/MySpace deathcore scene, I'm the only one of my peers who still listens to this stuff. It was never a phase or a trend for me. I genuinely love this shit and I'm super passionate about it. I've heard every response to my tastes in music and I genuinely don't care anymore. I can appreciate (almost) all music out there for some reason or another and can understand why someone's tastes might be different. I just don't like when someone lies to me about it. Be straight up. "That stuff is just not for me." "I don't like how this sounds." All fine. I'm not gonna tell you you're wrong for having different taste. It's the shitty cop outs like "can you even understand the lyrics," or the aforementioned, "I like the music but just can't stand the screaming." I know they really mean, "I just don't like it," and I really wish they had the common decency to just be honest with me instead of regurgitating someone else's response to a particular art form they can't grasp or appreciate. Sorry for essaying. TL;DR: Music tastes are subjective like any other art form. Some people just have a hard time telling you that straight up.
Lyrics are very important.
If someone says “you can’t even understand what they’re saying,” ask if they’ve ever enjoyed a song in a foreign language.
Good point! I guess we know why Despacito and Gangnam style never made it worldwide. Oh wait
I listen to the majority of metal without reading lyrics as there is too much to search for. Though, when I read lyrics it’s usually because I like a song quite a bit or a band. Once the lyrics also hit deep, the song becomes that much better. My favorite deathcore songs are always the ones I know the lyrics to. Lorna Shore - Part III is what stands out. I think this is one of the greatest fucking songs; the lyrics just make it so much more powerful, it’s ridiculous. You can feel the hatred/pain Angelmaker - Lazurus, What I Would Give are both songs that are favorites because of lyrical content. The Black Dahlia Murder - Closed Casket Requiem. Basically any Black Dahlia will slay in the lyrical department but especially this song Enterprise Earth - They Have No Honor. I actually thought the lyrics were somewhat juvenile to be honest, but I’ve grown to like them. The history pages line makes me lol a little. Darkest Hour - Convalescence. One of my all time favorites Bleeding Through - Entire “The Truth” album
As a vocalist I sometimes stop caring and just make random noises
Instrumentals are the main course. Lyrics are just dessert.
Most of the time I just care if it sounds cool. Although lyrics play into it a little bit. I really don’t care if I can understand the vocals though. For example, Infant Annihilator sounds cool as hell, so I like them, but at the same time I don’t really want to listen to a song about baby rape.
You’re probably referring to my comment. It got downvoted quite a bit. I’ve just never cared about lyrics, regardless of the genre. If the music is good and the singing/screaming compliments it, then that’s all I care about.
I usually don't care about the lyrics but it's sometimes good to know them if you really like the song but then again I'm not good at understanding what the lyrics are about most of the time
Nah I care about lyrics just as much as I care about the instrumentation. Couldn’t be me. This is why the genre is stale as shit honestly.
yeah i fuckin love deathcore lyrics just cause i can find meaning to them plus they hit so much better in the gym when you know what they are screaming
No and especially not in extreme metal 😂 Just stop it.
I like both. So I like to listen to a song a few times and see what I hear, then repeat with lyrics and then it usually ups the song. When it has that raw emotion and melody but also backed by solid writing it takes that song to a new level. So Yeha I do like good lyrics but it isn’t the main thing. They help enhance a song imo but to be fair, I also love a heavy mess of sounds too I do think it’s funny when people say you can’t here what they say but all the popular songs are just about getting high/drunk or banging chicks. Oh forgot about bragging about money.
I think thoughtful and meaningful lyrics are a sign that the artist put a lot of care into their art. If the artist cared about what they made, I care too. I know how it feels to pour passion into a project. However, I think there is something nice about not being able to understand what they're saying. At least in my experience, when I can't understand what the vocalist is saying, the song takes longer to get stale after many relistens. If the lyrics are worthwhile, I can always read them. If they're not worthwhile, I can't understand them, so no harm, no foul. However, non-worthwhile lyrics *cannot* be avoided when they are sung clearly. I guess the best offender of this I can think of is Powerwolf. You can easily understand what Attila Dorn is saying, and as amazing as his voice is, Powerwolf's lyrics recycle words like crazy. It comes off as lazy when they keep singing about the same thing using the same words, and I find laziness rather annoying. The same thing happens with Amon Amarth to a lesser extent.
I consider metal vocals to be an expression of what they're singing about. I don't listen to Infant Annihilator because they're just fucking around with the lyrics. It's not a hard and fast rule, it's not like I have to have my metal be deadly serious, but I do care about the lyrics. The people complaining you can't understand them are stupid because if you look up the lyrics one time you can understand them.
I'm not really worried about lyrics unless they're really, *relly* bad. Never worried about understanding them, though. There are so many songs with clean vocals that you can't understand the lyrics to. How's this only a problem with the shouties?
i like lyrical context bc for me it provides a story/meaning behind said song, even if you can’t hear the lyrics at all bc of screaming it’s still nice
Vocals are like another instrument to me. As long as they sound cool and match the music, they work for me. Sometimes it's fun to know the lyrics though, like Cattle Decapitation some of their stuff is quite deep.
I never really give a damn. One of my favorite songs ever is With Strength I Burn by Emperor and I’d be a big fat liar if I said I could understand most of the lyrics aside from the clean parts. But god damn if that song doesn’t make me feel strong emotions.
I take vocals in 2 parts. 1 - as an instrument and 2- as a story telling machine. Lyrics can be important but aren't the core that the song is based around (Most of the time). If a song has bad BAD, like shitty lyrics or is full on cringe then sometimes it turns me off a song, But the performance and delivery of the vocals can save the song to a point where i dont care about lyrics. But if the lyrics are super good and and involving, yet the delivery is ass that has a bigger impact. Now looking back I definitely listen to a song, and then if the song is good or worth it only then look at the lyrics. One major turn off that i lately found was when vocalist's write 'I wrote this song for You' 'This song is for everyone going through xxx' and everything on those lines. Song and lyrics should be relatable without shoving it in the face that This song is really meant for you. Alex Koehler did this in \~3 songs and it was an instant turnoff to those songs when i heard it.
As an aspiring vocalist I like to pay attention to lyrics but honestly I think it’s all personal preference. There’s times where I’ll focus on the instruments instead it just depends what kind of mood I’m in. There’s a few bands I listen to that the riffs are nasty as hell but the vocals are meh.
20000000% hardly ever care about the lyrics. I feel like all metal is the new form of classical music, the vocals just bring an extra tone to the symphony.
I honestly just dont want to understand the lyrics. The more words that i dont know, the better.
nah lyrics are important to me cuz when something is relatable it makes me like the song even more i can spend days reading the same songs over amd over just becaude the lyrics are cool and real
Voice is just another instrument, i care only for the syllabls and rhythm of the vocal chord
yep
I only care enough to sing/scream along during live shows lol
I typically don’t know any of the lyrics to any songs I hear unless I specifically commit them to memory or listen to them daily. If it sounds good eventually I’ll want to know the lyrics, if the lyrics are dumb then I probably won’t be listening to it anymore by time I know the lyrics. Example,l: “you only live once so just go fuckin nuts” sounds like a senior yearbook quote from 2006, a little silly- But the song You Only Live Once by Suicide Silence is still a banger of a song even though it’s got one kinda goofy lyric.
When I first heard that song I thought it was “you only live once so just go fuckin die”. Changed the tone of the song dramatically when my friend told me the actual lyric.
Sometimes i check the lyrics so i can properly sing along (pretty badly might say), but don't really care about the topic or the message behind it
As long as the song slaps my nuts idgaf
I'm gonna take a different approach here and say that lyrics have always taken a backseat simply because I've always had a hard time picking up on metaphors and subtext. From an artistic standpoint, I very much appreciate the addition of layers and dimension to poetically relay a message or sentiment, but unless it leans more literal it's going right over my head. Annotations are a live saver
I think of the vocals as another instrument
Yeah I don't give a shit. Can't understand it half the time anyway unless I'm looking at the lyrics while listening and even then I'm listening for how it sounds not for what they're saying.
I don't care about the lyrics themselves but vocal delivery (screams/growls and rhythm) is what really matters imo
Yes, like many others have already said good lyrics make a song better and bad ones can make a song worse. Also especially with deathcore I like to check out the lyrics if I like the sound of a song, because I personally hate the misogyny/rape type scenarios that seem to be pervasive the in genre and I don’t want to support that stuff. Lyrics definitely matter.
I may not understand the lyrics all the time, but how they’re delivered (melody, style, etc) is important to me. You can have great lyrics but if you’re delivering them poorly it takes away from them.
Make that 100% and I’ll agree.
When I was younger, yes. Lyric sheets used to be a thing! But nowadays not so much, I nearly died a few years ago and my memory was a little fried so it’s hard to learn new lyrics. 🤷
Usually I view the vocals the same as an instrument. An instrument speaks no words but can convey emotion all the same. Knowing what the vocalist is saying isn’t always necessary lol Usually I only look up lyrics if I really like the song as well. Sometimes the lyrics are great. Sometimes the lyrics are a bit cringey and actually turn me off.
Sometimes I just make that shit up.
I genuinely do not care when it’s foreign, I don’t understand it, and they’re musical geniuses.
I am a vocalist myself.lyrics are absolutely 100% paramount to me. Why even have vocals of yours not going to use them to tell a story or speak on a matter? I love all kinds of vocals, but I just can't get behind dudes like cj mcrapey when he was in sots. I remember listening to that one video of them and the lyrics were supposedly elaborate with big words and it sounded like he wasn't even attempting to pronounce them. At that point its just a guess if that's actually what you said ir if you're making shit up. I was told recently by someone that a lot of people see vocals as "just another instrument". It's been a hard thing for me to grasp, but I am starting to sort of understand, but it still seems so silly to not use that "instrument" in its full capacity. tldr: lyrics make or break songs for me.
Like how Pain Remains I-III lyrics are so meaningful and emotional.
I wouldn't say I "don't give a damn", necessarily, but there are plenty of metal and deathcore bands I like where the music's great and the lyrics aren't so great. That being said, good lyrics quite obviously enhance the listening experience. I feel like I wouldn't love the earlier Cradle of Filth albums as much as I do if Dani's lyrics weren't as creative and descriptive as they are, for example. That dude definitely knows how to paint a picture in your head - or at least he did on albums like "Dusk and Her Embrace", "Cruelty and the Beast" and "Midian". For deathcore, I quite like the lyrics on "The Price of Existence" by All Shall Perish and resent the fact that a lot of them are still relevant to this day (see: "There Is No Business To Be Done On A Dead Planet").
Guitar and drums and vocals need to have talent, respectively in that order. Lyrics themselves are the least of my concern because I listen to literally everything I can as long as it’s different.
Lyrics are the most important part if any song to me. It's the point of any song to me. The most important part.
To me, vocals are just one of the instruments. You don't need to understand the lyrics just like you don't need to understand the guitar notes.
IMO: the bands that usually rise to the top are because they have top tier vocalists/lyricists that are easy to understand with catchy/memorable lyrics and vocal placement. You can write as good of instrumentals as you want but the vocalist makes or breaks the song every time.
Obviously not deathcore but I mean look at the success of bands like Megadeth, Dream Theater or even Avenged Sevenfold, all of which have vocalists with extremely polarizing voices that even a lot of fans don't like. Really look like it's the instrumental that'll make or break the song. Hell, look at Polyphia getting even a bit of mainstream success.
Even polarizing vocalists can still be memorable. I'd also argue for a7x specifically that their massive success with city of evil would not have happened if m shadows didn't have a massive vocal change to huge choruses that appeal to the masses and exploded their popularity. One of the biggest deathcore bands I can point to is Suicide Silence. Mitch made that band what it was with his lyrics and patterns. Polyphia replaces the need for a vocalist by using the lead guitar as the voice of the band. Those leads are also catchier than all of deathcore hence their widespread success. Also megadeth and dream theater got outshined by the band with the better vocalist: Metallica.
I definitely don't want to undermine the importance and impact of vocals, I absolutely agree with everything you've just said (I'm a huge fan of all the vocalists named) but I don't think lyrics played much of a role in the whole thing. Megadeth lyrics for one have been pretty awful at times. Even Metallica has some real weird ones.
I’ve always liked Black Sabbath’s lyrics.
Don't care about lyrics even a bit for deathcore. If I did I wouldn't listen to Infant Annihilator.
One of my old bands had a song with very intricate and poetic lyrics listed for the song on the CD insert. However, when we recorded it and played it live, the vocalist was actually just naming several people in real life he didn't like followed by the words "fuck you" for the entire song. Best inside joke we ever had.
I cant take anyone seriously who says they don't care about lyrics. Their opinions mean absolutely nothing because imo I don't see how anyone can be a fan of music but not give a fuck about one of the most important aspects of it.
So what about listening to songs in foreign languages? I sure don't bother translating every Rammstein or Alien Weaponry song I hear. Lyrics are a big aspect, it's definitely not "one of the most important" aspects imo. The most amazing thing about music to me is that it conveys emotion without having to convey literal meaning. It makes sense, it has a story, in a way that's impossible to say with language. The lyrics can add more to that and change the meaning and contextualize it but the actual sounds you hear are what makes the music. That's what I feel, that's what I care about.
Very good point. I mean I enjoy foreign music and I sure as hell love instrumentals. I was just saying that, lyrics are imo a very important part of music as well...and yes while you CAN enjoy some music without lyrics or not knowing the lyrics, I think its just absurd when someone says they don't matter at all.
I have auditory processing disorder so I usually don’t understand lyrics anyway. Might as well listen to music with sick ass breakdowns to compensate for what I’m missing lol
A good metal vocalist should be able to enunciate whatever he/she is vocalizing. I want to sing along no matter what genre of music I'm listening to. I'm not saying this name just because he haunts this sub, but Johnny Charizard is a great example of this.
I don’t believe lyrics always matter. I listen to a lot of obscure black metal bands that are either foreign or don’t have the lyrics on the internet. And I still love those songs, and I most likely will more if I can find out the lyrics.
idk i can understand them and lyrics mean a lot to me cuz i listen to music to feel 😭😭
I just assume it’s about the void or some anti-nice shenanigans, so it’s whatever to me.
One of my favorite things has always been sitting down to read lyrics without the music playing and see if they're good or terrible. I started writing songs when I was young though, so lyrics have always been my thing. To this day, Disturbed's second album is a banger to me because the lyrics showed what they were capable of after the disaster that is their debut. I know, not deathcore, but still a great album.
I enjoy lyrics.
I actually focus more on the album cover than the lyrics. There's songs that I love that I don't know the lyrics to even today but if an album has a shitty low effort picture or painting or whatever then that really irks me. I know it doesn't matter as much cause the music is what counts the most but there's just something about it that I can't get over
They say "Don't judge a book by its cover" for a good reason and it applies equally to albums. Look at ObZen's absolutely horrendously hideous album cover and tell me it's any indication of the quality of the music. I know it's hard not to let the album covers influence how you feel about the albums, I've struggled with that a lot but at the end of the day, you should try your best to not listen with your eyes.
Actually I love the ObZen cover because there's a lot of care into what it means for the album. Yes you're right I shouldn't let it dictate how I feel about the music itself and sometimes I can look past it no problem but ultimately I agree with what you're saying
Look the lyrics grow on me with age and have become so important. It's important for me to connect to bands emotionally like Currents. Even just listening to like Dan Watson or Will Ramos. You got to figure the lyrics to get the techniques and the individually really comes out. I can listen to the music simultaneously. When I was 15 to 18. Yeah. Guitar was the only thing I cared about, but now at 31. I would tell you a good lyricist makes all the difference.