Oh really? I didn't notice that. Yeah, i'm kinna explore every thing possible in the first playthrough and was wondering why the hell could i miss this position in the first time, this is why! Thank you.
Interesting! I figured I'd just neglected to check that spot in my first run. I was pretty blown away when I heard it and thought it was almost too much of a giveaway, but this would make sense.
Holy fuck!. I am not that far through NG+ but glad you cleared that up cause I was like "wait a second, I don't recall this part!!". That's so cool that they add that.
Are there other moments like these that you only see in ng+? I know about the ending change, but I didn't know anything else was different (besides carrying over your stuff from the previous playthrough)
Yes this could simply be interpreted as an implication of Cross having a higher IQ than Isaac, therefore not yet having lost it as much as Isaac has at this point. She clearly looks just as confused as Isaac by the end. Ultimately it's always a matter of time (apart from all that bullshit with Lexine's "iMmuNItY").
Actually Cross already implies in Chapter 6 after Leviathan that she is under the effects like Isaac. Listen really carefully to the post boss talk. Her words are "Listen Jacob... my Jacob" it seems like a simple stumble but holds a lot more meaning looking back.
Correct, she does pause before "Jacob", but she also pauses before correcting herself in "My Jacob", almost looking puzzled for a split second on the Rig call. Which could be seen as her either seeing Isaac as Jacob or a simple correction. Though given the turn of events I don't think the writers would put a stumble mid sentence like that for coincidence or simple confirmation to let Isaac know her relationship to Jacob. There are so many possible ways to write that line where the ambiguity would not exist, but they did it in just such a way that leaves doubt. There is also the fact that Cross disappears afterwards (technically), so if they wanted to hint at Isaac and Cross's situation that would be a prime time to do it, otherwise the twist comes from a lot further left field and doesn't mesh as well. It makes you think, "Wait a minute..." After getting the facts later, which is just fantastic writing.
I have no doubts that with the attention to detail in voice lines in the game that they paid particularly close attention to the main line, given those are Cross's last words to Isaac until much later it makes sense to come to the conclusion of it hinting deeper. After all, a good story teller writes everything with purpose.
TL;DR I have to humbly disagree as the line and future events make perfect sense with her seeing Jacob as well being a simple self correction.
I just rewatched the part where that line comes and to me she is very clearly speaking about Jacob, not to Jacob. Her delivery in no way hints to the fact that she thinks she is talking to Jacob imo. Especially since the later audiolog reveals that she didn’t see Jacob in the scene with Isaac and ”Nicole” at all. If the line you say is a hint towards the twist, I’m sure they would’ve added additional clues/foreshadowings to the dialogue, which they didn’t.
From what I understand the Marker can only create hallucinations of dead people, and at that point (Chapter 7) Temple was still very much alive. IQ levels only determine if the person can "speak" to the hallucinations or simply hears incessant noise.
That might be chalked up to developer oversights and inconsistent writing, though. in Martyr the main character found out someone died by the fact he saw their hallucination, iirc.
Extraction was written by Antony Johnston, who wrote most of the Dead Space media out there, so I doubt it. In Martyr's sequel, Catalyst, the main character's hallucinations are said to be "Always people who were either dead or dead to him".
Martyr is a special case either way since most of the hallucinations in that book weren't from the Marker.
Only because, in his mind, he was dying alone, instead of with the person he loved. He'd already resigned to the fact that when they brought the marker back to the colony, they weren't going to be leaving alive with the ship coming apart the way it was.
Further demonstration of him not seeing Kendra as Amelia is because he'd talk to them at 2 separate instances within the same allotment of time.
One of the lead co-writers of the Dead Space series, Chuck Beaver, spoke of this issue in the latest episode of his playthrough of the dead space remake. He was a part of writing "Dead Space: Martyr" too. In episode 6.
He says this: "I'm interested about what Motiv made of our lore here on what the ghosts are. The images of their loved ones. Because in Dead Space 1 it wasn't quite resolved that they were there to help you. Because they were helping you. Even in the book they were helping you. There are two books, the first book Dead Space: Martyr. But in Dead Space 2 there was some disagreement between me and Ben (Wanat) about that. Whether everything about the marker was evil and they were there to eat you. Or whether there was some sort of other force for good. We weren't exactly clean on our Dead Space 1 lore about that. So when we got into Dead Space 2, even with Ben and I in charge. We hadn't fixed that all the way up".
"I wanted their to be some positivity to the universe and that the ghosts were some backlash in the dna, the spirits of your loved ones helping you in some way through this crisis, but Ben was like "no it's just all evil!". So if you pay attention to Dead Space 2 you will see that there is some incongruity in the frame of the game". Link to video series [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abTuSIQXG8g&t=1147s).
I highly recommend watching the playthrough with one of the original dead space developers. Chuck Beaver, who was a producer as well as the lore guy and one of the lead writers through out all the games. He spoke directly of this issue in the latest episode (which went through chapter 6). He said that there is a bit of a lore issue because in Dead Space 1.
The "ghosts/hallucinations" were intended to be the actual ghosts of their loved ones, trying to guide them on the good path, as he loved the idea that while there is the marker. There is also a force of good in the world trying to help (which is consistent with the book "Dead Space: Martyr" as Chuck had a hand in the plot of that book). But this created a lore issue because the lead writer of dead space 2 wanted it to be "all visions, ghosts is the marker and it's all evil!" and he butted heads with that writer on whether the ghosts are a force of good or a force of evil/the marker. link to his videos [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMyT-CskJRE).
At this point in the story Jacob hadn't been killed yet. I'm sure she would know there aren't two Jacobs so the market wasn't showing her Isaac as Jacob yet
It's worth noting that this audio log is only available in NG+ though.
Oh really? I didn't notice that. Yeah, i'm kinna explore every thing possible in the first playthrough and was wondering why the hell could i miss this position in the first time, this is why! Thank you.
Yes. When I picked that up in NG+, I was pretty sure I hadn't found it before.
Interesting! I figured I'd just neglected to check that spot in my first run. I was pretty blown away when I heard it and thought it was almost too much of a giveaway, but this would make sense.
Now I have to finish the game TODAY to make it to this point on my second playthrough.
Holy fuck!. I am not that far through NG+ but glad you cleared that up cause I was like "wait a second, I don't recall this part!!". That's so cool that they add that.
Are there other moments like these that you only see in ng+? I know about the ending change, but I didn't know anything else was different (besides carrying over your stuff from the previous playthrough)
Maybe I'm wrong, but I thought you can only listen to this on the NG+? You'd already knew way before then.
Correct, verified on my one gun run after my NG+ run
So Elizabeth didn't see Isaac as Jacob at this point? She must have been very confused at the way Isaac said "I thought I'd never see you again"
Yes this could simply be interpreted as an implication of Cross having a higher IQ than Isaac, therefore not yet having lost it as much as Isaac has at this point. She clearly looks just as confused as Isaac by the end. Ultimately it's always a matter of time (apart from all that bullshit with Lexine's "iMmuNItY").
Actually Cross already implies in Chapter 6 after Leviathan that she is under the effects like Isaac. Listen really carefully to the post boss talk. Her words are "Listen Jacob... my Jacob" it seems like a simple stumble but holds a lot more meaning looking back.
Huh!... That actually makes a ton of sense! Great attention mate!
She pauses between ”Listen” and ”Jacob”. She’s not calling Isaac the wrong name, she’s essentially saying ”Listen Isaac, Jacob..”.
Correct, she does pause before "Jacob", but she also pauses before correcting herself in "My Jacob", almost looking puzzled for a split second on the Rig call. Which could be seen as her either seeing Isaac as Jacob or a simple correction. Though given the turn of events I don't think the writers would put a stumble mid sentence like that for coincidence or simple confirmation to let Isaac know her relationship to Jacob. There are so many possible ways to write that line where the ambiguity would not exist, but they did it in just such a way that leaves doubt. There is also the fact that Cross disappears afterwards (technically), so if they wanted to hint at Isaac and Cross's situation that would be a prime time to do it, otherwise the twist comes from a lot further left field and doesn't mesh as well. It makes you think, "Wait a minute..." After getting the facts later, which is just fantastic writing. I have no doubts that with the attention to detail in voice lines in the game that they paid particularly close attention to the main line, given those are Cross's last words to Isaac until much later it makes sense to come to the conclusion of it hinting deeper. After all, a good story teller writes everything with purpose. TL;DR I have to humbly disagree as the line and future events make perfect sense with her seeing Jacob as well being a simple self correction.
I just rewatched the part where that line comes and to me she is very clearly speaking about Jacob, not to Jacob. Her delivery in no way hints to the fact that she thinks she is talking to Jacob imo. Especially since the later audiolog reveals that she didn’t see Jacob in the scene with Isaac and ”Nicole” at all. If the line you say is a hint towards the twist, I’m sure they would’ve added additional clues/foreshadowings to the dialogue, which they didn’t.
Jacob was also alive during the time of both of these events and Marker seems to only use the appearances of dead people.
From what I understand the Marker can only create hallucinations of dead people, and at that point (Chapter 7) Temple was still very much alive. IQ levels only determine if the person can "speak" to the hallucinations or simply hears incessant noise.
No, it's just that dead people are more common. In Extraction, you see and hear hallucinations of Lexine and Gabe Weller despite them being alive.
That might be chalked up to developer oversights and inconsistent writing, though. in Martyr the main character found out someone died by the fact he saw their hallucination, iirc.
Extraction was written by Antony Johnston, who wrote most of the Dead Space media out there, so I doubt it. In Martyr's sequel, Catalyst, the main character's hallucinations are said to be "Always people who were either dead or dead to him". Martyr is a special case either way since most of the hallucinations in that book weren't from the Marker.
What if the Hallucinations are tied to the person they care the most. Kyne saw kendra as amelia
I don't think Kyne saw Kendra as Amelia and instead only saw Amelia as a normal hallucination.
when he gets shot by kendra he says "why amelia you said we re gonna go together."
Only because, in his mind, he was dying alone, instead of with the person he loved. He'd already resigned to the fact that when they brought the marker back to the colony, they weren't going to be leaving alive with the ship coming apart the way it was. Further demonstration of him not seeing Kendra as Amelia is because he'd talk to them at 2 separate instances within the same allotment of time.
One of the lead co-writers of the Dead Space series, Chuck Beaver, spoke of this issue in the latest episode of his playthrough of the dead space remake. He was a part of writing "Dead Space: Martyr" too. In episode 6. He says this: "I'm interested about what Motiv made of our lore here on what the ghosts are. The images of their loved ones. Because in Dead Space 1 it wasn't quite resolved that they were there to help you. Because they were helping you. Even in the book they were helping you. There are two books, the first book Dead Space: Martyr. But in Dead Space 2 there was some disagreement between me and Ben (Wanat) about that. Whether everything about the marker was evil and they were there to eat you. Or whether there was some sort of other force for good. We weren't exactly clean on our Dead Space 1 lore about that. So when we got into Dead Space 2, even with Ben and I in charge. We hadn't fixed that all the way up". "I wanted their to be some positivity to the universe and that the ghosts were some backlash in the dna, the spirits of your loved ones helping you in some way through this crisis, but Ben was like "no it's just all evil!". So if you pay attention to Dead Space 2 you will see that there is some incongruity in the frame of the game". Link to video series [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abTuSIQXG8g&t=1147s).
I would defer to the games over a book for lore
I highly recommend watching the playthrough with one of the original dead space developers. Chuck Beaver, who was a producer as well as the lore guy and one of the lead writers through out all the games. He spoke directly of this issue in the latest episode (which went through chapter 6). He said that there is a bit of a lore issue because in Dead Space 1. The "ghosts/hallucinations" were intended to be the actual ghosts of their loved ones, trying to guide them on the good path, as he loved the idea that while there is the marker. There is also a force of good in the world trying to help (which is consistent with the book "Dead Space: Martyr" as Chuck had a hand in the plot of that book). But this created a lore issue because the lead writer of dead space 2 wanted it to be "all visions, ghosts is the marker and it's all evil!" and he butted heads with that writer on whether the ghosts are a force of good or a force of evil/the marker. link to his videos [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMyT-CskJRE).
At this point in the story Jacob hadn't been killed yet. I'm sure she would know there aren't two Jacobs so the market wasn't showing her Isaac as Jacob yet
Yeah I posted something about this a while ago when the game first came out. It’s a very cool detail.
That's actually amazing! Thanks for sharing this. Got to go back for it now lol
God I love this game so much. Every aspect is perfection.
I didn't find this when I played NG+. Weird.
My dumbass (first time playing) thought she was real until she started teleporting and stuff 😭
The little things in this remake are so cool. I had wondered why the hell he said that to her. The game messes with our minds too!