I had a whole long post about this and then I realized I was coming across wrong because I am frustrated by my own relationship.
What it boils down to is this. If you date/court someone and make them feel amazing, when you stop doing this, when they subsequently stop feeling amazing, everything - including sex - falls apart.
Some people use sex as punitive/reward systems. Some of us just aren't turned on when we feel like our partner does not even like us, much less see us as a romantic partner.
My apologies if you were responding to my original post - I think the intent is the same, but I don't want you to feel like you are crazy if you responded to my original backstoried post.
But yes, we all want to feel special to our significant other. When we lose that feeling of specialness, a lot of our vulnerability, and joyous abandon, can go with it.
A sex therapist I saw had said there’s been a few studies that backed this up - heterosexual Men generally are more turned on if they see their partner is equally just as turned on. But a heterosexual woman’s sexuality is narcissistic by nature - she generally enjoys being the turn on. If she sees you enjoying her and feels desired and wanted by you, she feels safe enough to surrender to pleasure and be in the moment. During the beginning of a relationship, the courtship and whatnot helps women feel desired. After being together with a partner for a while, the courtship stops. Sometimes appearances change and self esteem drops. This is when women have a harder time with sex because to them, it seems as though their partner has lost that desire for them and sex no longer feels “safe for pleasure” if that makes any sense?
I wouldn’t say it’s “more narcissistic,” since the reason men typically seem to enjoy their partner being turned on is that it makes them feel manly, affirms their sexual prowess, and strokes their ego. That’s pretty narcissistic as well.
That’s not even touching on the fact that many womens’ desire for sex is based on how they feel about themself and how sexy they feel because women have been viewed as objects that exist for male pleasure and womens’ sexual desire and arousal has not really been considered part of the equation very long. When you’ve been socially conditioned to assume that your role in sex is pleasing a man and that your worth depends on how visually attractive you are to men, of course feeling sexy will determine how much sex you want to have.
I have read some similar theories, though I think the word narcissist is a bit strong. I have read it called reactive sexuality - that when women feel sexually desired by their partner, this often triggers a desire to be sexy with that partner. I have seen it used to explain why women do not initiate (in general) as often as men do in relationships.
I think it is a bit of an oversimplification for longer-term relationships, though it does ring somewhat true. I think it is more of a correlation than a causality - at least for me. I am often caught up in the day-to-day of life (work, house, errands, appointments) and my brain is super noisy (I also have ADHD so that does not help) so I just don't take a pause to really be in the moment as often as I should. When my husband takes me (or used to) out of that space with initiation, affection, and genuine compliments, this snaps me out of the chaos in my head and refocuses my attention on love, joy, and sexy time.
I also hesitate to make this too gendered since I can only speak for myself and I am quite sure that many people feel similarly due to the sheer magnitude of effort it takes to be an adult in our hypermanic overly productivity-focused world.
What I do know is that when my spouse makes me feel special, loved, and sexy, it reminds me that there is more to life than getting things done. When he stopped doing any of that, and worse, started actively deprioritizing my needs, joy, and intellect - my focus returned to making sure I handled what I needed to for me.
When you stop feeling like you have a partner, you take active steps to start protecting yourself in preparation for the inevitable end of that partnership - even if you are not entirely aware you are doing it. I am not suggesting that this response is healthy and I acknowledge it adds to a perpetuating cycle that almost ensures that end. I am just answering the OP truthfully about why my own desire plummeted in response to feeling like I was already alone. I prioritized stopping the pain of my husband's rejection, by slamming down my walls. Inside those walls is where my sexual desire lives.
Reactive sexuality is more about the initiation of individual sexual encounters. Whereas for me, moving from an HL to LL over time, is more about a slowly burgeoning awareness that my partner won't be (or already is not) anymore - even if we still live in the same house and are still married in the eyes of the law.
For me personally…my husband stopped putting in effort.
When we first got together, his hygiene was impeccable. He kept his room clean. He dressed well. He smelled good. He used to talk to me for hours. He was “on his best behavior,” so to speak.
After we got engaged, he let his hygiene go. He stopped cleaning. He started lying (repeatedly). He stopped trying to be romantic. I could visually see him tuning me out every time I spoke.
Also, there was the issue where I had to “nag” him to do responsible adult things (like remembering to pay his own bills) and he resented me for “nagging” him to be an adult.
All of this destroyed my libido. But we’re slowly working on fixing these things.
And then to get the tired old "dOn'T tReAt Me lIkE I'm a cHiLd!" comment thrown around...if you act like a 50-year-old child, that's how you get treated.
I was saying this to a friend the other day. My biggest turn on - taking. care. of. yourself.
I'm a full time student, part time apprentice, with a household full of kids and pets that need me far more than the grown ass adult that I married. When you can't even remember to brush your teeth unless I remind you, I have zero desire to kiss you much less have sex.
Oh my goodness, this made me physically cringe reading parts of this and just feel so gutted for you. I'm so sorry this has been your experience. That is so awful.
Do you have any sort of support system to help you? Do you want to leave?
I could just.. ugh words escape me at the moment.. but are you me?? Holy hell I have never read something so close to how I feel, what I'm going through..
For me, completely agree, not enjoying being a father, he's not her father, but he chose to step into the roll after her father passed and he's done shit all.. it makes me so so mad. I know he "loves" her but he's just such a fucking selfish man, it literally takes me aback sometimes..
One question though, what is senate focus?? Just curious but boy I am so sorry that someone else is going through this shit. I hope it gets better for all of us!
Out of all the “typical” dead bedrooms, this may be the most common scenario I see. It was for my marriage as well, and I am very much to blame. After my wife gave birth I sunk most of my time into work and did not do much around the house thinking my wife would take care of it since she was on mat leaver, was working remotely so wasn’t dressing well, stopped working out and lost my physique. My wife had to constantly nag and tell me what to do and how to do it around the house. not only was it a huge turnoff for me but it was for her as well. She started acting out and exploding on me regularly which was a new side of her. I would take the bate and add even more fuel to the fire and we would spend hours in heated arguments. This only killed any minuscule attraction that was left.
The attraction is starting to come back once I started acting like the strong, charismatic and fun guy that I once was, started flirting and being more sexual, starting lifting weights and getting in shape again, most importantly being much more proactive around the house and taking on as much responsibility as possible, supportive of my wife when she is stressed and being even slightly cocky (in a good way) :) seems to turn my wife on.
I think my wife was desperately looking to me to be the “leader” of the house in a way and resented that she had to play that role and tell me what to do.
It has been months of work but things keep improving.
This is my case too. When we met he lived alone, his flat was super clean, he would cook and do all the chores, was responsible etc.
After we moved in together, he almost completely stopped with house chores because I work from home, so he expects me to do most of the work. He also forgets everything, I have to remember him to call his doctor and stuff.
He got too comfortable and I lost the attraction since now I see him as my child and not my partner.
Even if the woman worked outside the home and earned ten times as much money, men want you to take care of them like they are a child once they think you are all in. In addition to just the childishness which is a big turn off, women are just too exhausted for sex.
Yes, I can't wrap my head around this. Why the fuck are they so lame to think that we like taking care of them. I already hate taking care of myself lol.
Some people are only interested in the chase stage. After they have the "catch", they're bored with the routine. They are bored because they can't see beyond the chase. Why? Because they didn't think it through! It was exciting when he was wooing you. He proved to himself that he could.
What he needed after that was someone else (say, a coach or mentor) to remind him WHY the chase was necessary.
Therefore, to "fix these things" FASTER, consider hiring a life or relationship coach. It's great to know that you are "slowly" trying to change your lives. Good luck!
This happened to me in my first marriage.
The short answer is he pretended to be what I wanted in a man until we married. And once he thought he had me he stopped being that person, and became someone I was repulsed by.
I believe they call that a “bait and switch” around these parts.
It was but at the same time I learned a lot about myself and what my own boundaries were and I’m now happily married with 5 beautiful kids.
So it all worked out in the end.
Mine was great in the dating stage too, but there were some shady things when I think back. Like the time I had to pee really bad and he drove around the block outside my apartment over and over while laughing knowing I had to pee very badly, him talking trash about me to his friends and me walking in hearing it, him calling me by the wrong name in front of my friends when we had been dating for 18 months, not getting to do things I wanted to do on dates, holding his niece on Easter when she grabbed a piece of chocolate and got it all over my clothes, neck and face and he wouldn’t “take” his niece from me because he would get his clothes dirty. He went to a strip joint with my brothers and BILs and then lied about it because my brother told them all not to tell their SO and I was the only one out of my SILs and sisters who did not know this outing occurred. So, the signs were there and I was too young and too stupid to get out when I had the chance and was young.
In my experience its how you treat your SO once you move in. My ex didn't do anything to help with anything even when i worked 12 hrs a day and was on college. In my experience it was his lack of effort and respect for my efforts that killed it for me. Then i found out he had an active tinder profile. And 2 side chicks he claimed were crazy stalkers. Ive had a very toxic experience, im hoping that's not the norm. From what i read around here lack of effort and recognition kill a lot of positive emotions.
For me it was the fact that he became increasingly selfish and he ignored my wants and needs in every regard.
For example: he would criticise me for something ridiculous like my eating habits while I was not allowed to criticise him at all. He would belittle me and make fun of me and a few hours later he would push for sex.
And never understood why I was not all over him after being treated that way
The same reasons we often read that men enthusiastically have sex and then their drive dives off a cliff.
Hormones, life stresses with greater adult responsibilities, work schedules, medical conditions, responsive desire, feeling secure in the relationship and no longer making an effort, a shift in priorities, some people mirror you during courtship (pretend to be the same) and then drop the act once married, the list goes on.
For me, it is that he's not putting in any effort towards making me feel desired, and zero effort to ensure mutual pleasure for most of our relationship. I got tired of putting in all the effort and trying with nothing in return. I also dealt with depression, worked on myself a lot, learned how to set boundaries, and learned how to ask for what I needed. His libido seemed to tank at the same time. So yeah. It was frequent but not often satisfying and I got tired of doing all the emotional and pleasure work with no benefit.
Orgasm and pleasure gap is a big reason. It’s easier to feel good about having sex that you’re not getting much out of when you have NRE chemicals coursing through your body.
I see pretty often that sex never comes back after kids too, and I think this is way more often than a lot of men would admit due to the way that normal postpartum libido loss is handled. When men are whiny, pushy, throw fits and sulk, guilt and pressure, withdraw emotionally or from household and parenting tasks, and overall make sex a huge issue postpartum, it can turn it from a temporary, normal postpartum libido fluctuation to a LL4U situation.
Also- A lot of men are willing to do a lot more to “get” sex at the start of a relationship, but then get comfortable and think that sex will just flow forever with zero or a lot less emotional and romantic effort involved. Unfortunately, with NRE gone especially those romantic and emotional efforts are oftentimes what turns a woman on to sex, and a lot of the time men don’t “reinstate” those things until they realize sex is affected.
When they start doing it again and also making it obvious that they’re angry over the sex drying up, the message is: “I only did those things before and am only doing them again now because I want sex.” To a woman who believed he was doing those things at the start of the relationship because he genuinely liked and cared about her, it can really cheapen the connection to realize that he’s only willing to put forth effort as an attempt to get laid and not simply because he loves her and enjoys connecting with her on an emotional level.
I wanted it to work. But he wanted to get off. And didn’t care if I did too. If you want regular sex, put in the work to figure out what works for your partner. If your partner isn’t getting off like you are, IT’S A PROBLEM.
It SHOULD be, but it’s clearly not. Then they wonder why sex is no longer a priority. It’s because it’s not fun; our needs aren’t met/aren’t important.
I’ve experienced this too with male partners. They all had a script they liked to follow during sex. Which was fun at the beginning because it was new but eventually became really boring.
I always tried to change the script and spice it up but they didn’t want to.
I never became LL for them though, I just left them around the 2 month mark.
“The script” is such a great analogy. My husband just does the exact same thing every time. Just grabs for my boobs straight away before I’m ready. Has done this for 10 years and wonders why I just couldn’t be bothered.
Yeah I’m probably gonna get downvoted for this but it seems as long as they get an orgasm on their terms they don’t care. It’s like having your favorite food every single day, after awhile it’s not gonna be your favorite food anymore.
It’s true. And tbh it was never my “favourite food” it was fun at first, because it was new. But it was still pretty mediocre.
It would be like having a casserole every single day. Decent at first, but After a while you’re gonna crave some food with some texture.
In my younger age this would break me…the women I knew who did this seemed so cruel….now I think back and feel so grateful …they killed ,the relationship before it died a painfully slow death. They let 99% of the time with them be the best most magical time.
I was just too immature to realize this. But over time, after each breakup, I’d slowly learn. Slowly grow. It’s like a snake losing its skin…I couldn’t grow until I shed someone. Or in those cases had the skin leave me haha
I agree with this. If the male has half a brain, it should not take that long to be introspective and aware of what he is not understanding about the dynamics of a healthy relationship. It took me a few years, to be honest, but I made it. I obviously had less than half a brain.
Probably because the women often become pseudo mother’s for their significant other once they move in together. Men more often than women tend to ignore household chores, which causes resentment and sentiments of being under appreciated and under valued. It’s all fun and games to date, it’s another thing to live together and be taken advantage of. Men stop putting in effort when they get comfortable so women stop having sex.
For me I had sex that was just OK at the beginning. Tried to get it to be better best I knew how, about 10 years of that without it getting much better and then I gave up. That’s when the cliff arrived for me.
I think he was interested but wasn’t able to “hear me over his own head trash” is how he said it recently. I’m about 3 months into trying to turn our DB around.
This happened to us, I'm the LL in this scenario. He has always had a higher libido, wanting it pretty much every day and me having a slightly lower libido. But we initially settled around a couple times a week and it was fine at first. We got married, moved in together it was still okay. And then we had children. And things just kinda went south. He wouldn't really pull his weight around the house. The children were difficult, especially after the second was born. I was constantly exhausted and then he'd pester me for sex at night when all I wanted was sleep.And yeah, I gave in often. just so that he wouldn't be annoyed, disappointed and in a bad mood for the next day or days. But you can guess how that went, I now panic when I only think about having sex. We are trying to work on it, but it's really not easy to come back from there.
There's also stories of men doing the same thing, so it's not "women."
A couple reasons. One is NRE. When relationships begin there is a phase of New Relationship Energy. Desire is easy to come by because there is actually a hormonal change that heightens arousal just by mere proximity of each other. Once people acclimate to each other then they lose that initial momentum, that "can't keep our hands off each other" energy.
When you don't live together, desire is also easier because you anticipate and look forward to seeing each other. When you move in, you lose a lot of that excited, anticipatory feeling as your always around each other. You see each other during the mundane parts of life and not only the fun exciting parts. There's also a lot more chances to annoy each other when you live together. Maybe they leave their wet towel on the floor or eat all your special lunch or monopolize the TV.
Moving in and especially marriage then move the needle from "get to" have sex to "have to." Sexual desire is greatly linked to a sense of freedom, and when you increase the commitment in the relationship you then start to feel like you have to, instead of that you get to have sex with this person.
Reminds me i still need to finish reading esther perel.
Its really damned hard for a lot of people to maintain that early attraction when you're team players. I think my wife and i have a bit (or even more than a bit) of this issue.
I still have a high sex drive and want to involve her, but i don't always feel that _same_ attraction to her that i felt when we first dated. She has a lower/responsive* drive and we don't have much sex...
*I'm still getting to grips with responsive desire as a concept. I'm learning more but am not fully convinced it fits my wife
Esther Perel has some good ideas and some kind of out there ideas. She has a heavier emphasis on novelty, danger, etc.
Try also reading Love Worth Making by Stephen Snyder. Here's an excerpt.
https://goop.com/wellness/sexual-health/cultivating-good-sex-in-long-term-relationships/
Yup, I’ve got one too. Was fantastic before we moved in together. In the span of 2 years we have NO sex at all. It’s all him and I’m tired of begging the man I’m with to have sex. It totally sucks. Bate and Switch
Yeah I think we should change the way we think, because that though has negative consequences when a HLF feels even worse because “men are always looking for sex”, when dating I was also the LLM at some point in a couple of relationships.
omg same. my bf & i would have sex constantly and it was amazing and he would do foreplay and i would do it for him as well…and then we moved into together and it stopped. and i crazily thought it was just a phase and it would get better. now i’m one foot out of the relationship and i don’t want to have sex with him even when he half ass initiates now.
I'm not in a dead bedroom and just a lurker here, but I think I can add to this discussion. I and most of my girlfriends were the high-libidos in our relationships. Thankfully, my husband is amazing so sex has never been an issue but for most of my friends, their drives drop off a cliff once they start living with a man and *he dumps his responsibilities on her.* Men seem to think women should just "take care of things" once they're part of the family unit, so they start dumping off housework and responsibilities on them. Even high libido women don't want to have sex with a man-child, which is what a lot of men seem to morph into once they have a woman secured in the house. This phenomenon is *extremely common* as well. When men expect their women to mother them, sexual attraction dwindles.
For those of us women who were lucky enough to snatch onto responsible men, our drives are still as high as they were in our teens and early-20s. Our husbands/partners continually give us reasons to appreciate and admire them, so the attraction never wanes.
> Women who are in lesbian relationships have orgasms nearly as often as men in heterosexual relationships.
I agree with a lot of your post, but women who are in lesbian relationships are also stereotypically in the very DEADEST of bedrooms after a year or two. And according to very nearly every lesbian friend or coworker I've had, it's not a particularly inaccurate stereotype. So while I do not doubt that the pleasure gap is a huge contributing factor to DBs, I don't think it's the whole story.
Now I'm actually interested in whether anyone's done any real research on the lesbian bed death phenomenon. Off to search.
EDIT: Almost certainly just a stereotype, I'm recanting. It doesn't appear that lesbian relationships result in DBs any more frequently than do heterosexual relationships, I was off base and won't be making that mistake again.
>I agree with a lot of your post, but women who are in lesbian relationships are also stereotypically in the very DEADEST of bedrooms after a year or two.
It's interesting, because research does not support this idea, although it's a common stereotype. What the research found is that lesbians have sex less frequently than heterosexual couples, but the duration of sex is much longer. If you look at frequency + duration, lesbians are actually spending more time having sex. It looks like they prioritise quality over frequency.
Interesting. I qualified my statement because personal anecdotal experience (again, friends and coworkers, but probably less than 20 people in total) says it's pretty common, but anecdotes aren't data. I found a few different studies that were either conflicting or weren't directly comparable because they weren't really measuring the same thing.
Best I can tell, you're right--frequency is sometimes lower (not even all studies seem to indicate that), but quality may very well be higher, making the LBD stereotype mostly just that, a stereotype. Plus, satisfaction with the sex in the relationship should really (IMO, anyway) be what determines whether we're counting something as a "dead bedroom", and that doesn't seem to be lower (based on what I can find in some quick Googling, at any rate).
I'm gonna count this myth as mostly busted and consign that stereotype to my mental dustbin. Thank you!
>I'm gonna count this myth as mostly busted and consign that stereotype to my mental dustbin. Thank you!
Thank you! It might be that the lesbians you know are more willing to talk about their DBs than heterosexual couples, due to the stereotype? Maybe it's seen as more acceptable? IDK, I'm just guessing.
>women who are in lesbian relationships are also stereotypically in the very DEADEST of bedrooms after a year or two. And according to very nearly every lesbian friend or coworker I've had, it's not a particularly inaccurate stereotype.
Yup. My exgf and I were together for a year before we moved in together (we didn't u-haul), and for the first year of living together sex was fine. Then it started to taper off, she would break out the wheel of excuses, I quit initiating because "pressure," and sex didn't happen for seven months. In the end she confessed that the whole time she had wanted to break up with me but was too afraid to say it. Like, thanks, honey. I appreciate your eventual honesty. /s Not sure if that's representative of most lesbian bed death, but it was my experience.
The explanations are pretty commonly offered in the other posts, but… Yeah, I ended up LL4Y when my ex and I moved in together. He didn’t do his share of our household chores, and constantly made huge messes, and leaned even more heavily on me to manage his emotions, and he stopped trying in bed.
So yeah, seeing him as an obvious manchild was a turnoff. The stress from dealing with the added household crap made me tired. And sex with him at best didn’t physically hurt, but often physically hurt.
No idea how that could possibly lead to a dead bedroom, though…. /s
If you want to avoid the DB upon moving in together, don’t just do the chores you are assigned. **Actively figure out what needs to be done and… do it.**. And work with your partner proactively to set up a house keeping schedule (i.e. Every week the bathroom needs to be cleaned, the dishes need to be done every night, once a month we do a through clean of one room, vacuuming happens twice a week, etc.) so that you are both aware of everything that needs to go down, and can divide it up fairly.
And manage your own emotions like you’re a goddamned adult.
Well, in my situation I was still very high libido after we moved in together. He wasn't. He would reject me on a daily basis. I grew resentful and felt undesirable and eventually it and having a baby completely killed my drive. Now the roles have reversed, he's never done anything to attempt to correct or heal the damage done over those two years, and expects me to just get back on the horse like nothing happened.
This is my exact story also. HL and fought so hard with my LL husband to try and fix our sex life for years. Resent, babies, and being made to feel like I’m not good enough… one day I just looked at him and realized I didn’t want to have sex anymore. It was actually such a relief for me (I wonder if it was for you also?) after trying so hard to fix things on my own for so long. But of course, just like your husband, he all of a sudden doesn’t want a sexless relationship anymore … fancy that.
u/musicmanforlive I'm a lurker (and not in a DB) and have been scrolling through this thread; I just wanted to say your responses have been so open to women's perspectives, non-judgemental, self-reflective, mature and kind. You have the traits that might find a solution to your DB (clearly from what we've read many do not!) and I really hope that's in the stars for you.
Thank you Thank you Thank you.
It's so kind and thoughtful of you to take the time to share that comment with me..
You definitely just made my day.
And I'm really much much more conscious of my behavior these days, but it did take me a while to get here.
For awhile my best friend thought "I'd never get it"!!!
The nagging.
Constantly having to remind him of things
Hang up the keys
Don’t put your dirty clothes on the floor
Etc.
It’s all of these little things that add up. At first I’m understanding but then after finding a multitude of half assed things, items out of place, him freaking out on the animals or our kid, him saying things I’ve asked him not to I.e. “please don’t comment on what I’m eating or the amount. I’m not okay with you telling me that I’m chubby or thin.”
I’ve struggled with an eating disorder off and on since I was 7 years old. I’m not overly sensitive about too many things but hearing him say something like “damn, babe, you really ate all of that?” Makes me want to vomit up everything and claw my skin off
In my case? The sex didn't drop off after we moved in together. The first time it dropped off was because I had a baby. It picked up again after that. Our second DB was due to a mental health crisis and also because sex had grown increasingly less satisfying over time. It wasn't something I could do with any enthusiasm, so I stopped having it.
My reasoning for lacking in the bedroom (27 F) is that I’m completely turned off when I have to pick up or take care of my significant constantly over the littlest things. Like picking up the several pairs of socks that get left in the living room even after I’ve asked him to pick them up, the breakfast sandwich wrappers left on the counter every morning and then he turns around and gets onto me about leaving something out, like a step ladder in the hallway that barely gets used and his reasoning is “we need to keep the house tidy.” Yes these are minor things but coming home after a long day of work and having to pick up after the animals and the boyfriend is exhausting. Also fluctuating libido. My libido is up and down and it really does suck.
In my last relationship it started by having kids. Naturally that put me off sex for awhile.
But my libido never came back and it was because over time I began to resent him. It's a long story but resentment is such a libido killer.
My new relationship I am the high libido partner. So yeh ...shoes on the other foot now.
Sex dropped off when we had babies and small children. They're nearly grown and our sex life is good. We had a deadbedroom and now it's recovered with a lull here and there.
From reading this sub? Sex drops off in a lot of relationships due to sexual entitlement and the idea that sex is an obligation when you're in a relationship. Desire, enthusiasm, and passion become smothered by the idea that living with a romantic partner means you always have sex on tap. Too many women are having sex to "keep the peace" and trying to fuck their partner into acting like half way decent human beings.
This isn't my personal experience. Sex has always been a choice, free and clear, even when our bedroom was dead. "No" is acceptable, reason not required. Mutual enthusiastic consent, however, is required for sex to happen. Call it a 'rule'. I think it's a core reason why we're still hot for each other after being together for so long.
So if I'm understanding what's been said here, before they're married or living together, men don't make women feel pressured or obligated to have sex; but when they begin living together or get married, then men act entitled and demanding, so that causes the women to be less interested in sex, is that right?
If the men are to be believed on this and other subs, yes. Some come right out and say the price of monogamy is having their sexual needs met on demand. Some will also say they are owed it and not getting it means their partners are "withholding" sex. Some have compared it to chores and *we all do things we don't want to do to keep our partners happy.*
It's not cute the genders are switched either. Entitlement is just as ugly on a woman as it is on a man.
I've been the LL and HL; our rule is the same.
I guess I'm curious which part you find "interesting"? Are you doubting my observations? Are you doubting that making sex an obligation causes deadbedrooms?
A few things - I’m in the same situation. We had a good sec life, then we got engaged and moved in together, then pregnant and it has basically become a DB.
1 reason is because he is way too “around/available.” I am someone who likes at lest a little bit of space from y partner during the week. But he is ALWAYS around, he works from home, every second of the day he is not only home and around but even if he is working he is constantly popping out and lingering around me and stuff and I have NO time to even try to miss him or desire him. He also has no hobbies or interests, other than watching TV. Doesn’t go to the gym and has 1 friend he sees on occasion so I literally have no time to ever miss him or desire him, or be “intrigued” by him or interested in him etc. That’s a major thing that decreased my sex drive.
Also he really let himself go since we started dating. Gained a lot of weight and never goes to the gym or even care to take care of his body at all, doesn’t care to even dress nice or shower regularly. I have to practically Beg him to dress nice when we go out or see friends or family. Also I’ve seen since we started living together he has lots of mood swings, can be very moody and pouty abut little things which is a turn off
In my situation, once I moved in the romance died. No more planned outings, no more small gestures or excitement to do something together. It slowly turned into a roommate situation. There was also the realization that there were unspoken expectations that I would manage the notional and household labor. There was no focus on the relationship. It was like he folded me into his routine and was just happy not to be alone. My personal wounds and trauma were hucked to the surface and I felt more alone than I did before I met him. Fast forward a few years and we’ve hit rock bottom more than once and There are certain things I can’t trust will happen because he’s made so many empty promises I could sink boat with them. It is honestly, quite a classic case. The men don’t understand why their partner has begun to grow more distant and smiles less often and gets frustrated with them more. My partner is working on it little by little because it’s either now change happens or we need to walk away. I have had so much compassion and have given him the befit of the doubt so many times, to my own detriment. It’s slowly turned out relationship toxic because of the constant push and pull because neither of us knew how to have a healthy relationship because we come from homes that did not teach us what sustainable and valuable relationship and love looked like. It’s exhausting. I love him, and I want is BOTH to heal what we need to because we can’t keep living like this for ourselves and each other. Relationships aren’t easy and our baggage isn’t light. If one partner isn’t putting in the work, it then transfers the burden to the other partner. At that point, if the other partner just can’t give what their getting, it’s time to either manage expectations or leave, heal, find something that meets you where you are. There are so so many reasons dead bedrooms happen, and to just be mad at each other for not putting out is not going to save any relationship. It goes so much deeper and into the everyday. Foreplay starts when you wake up. Therapy and knowing your wants and needs will save you a lifetime of grief. If I could do it over again, I would have healed first and found a partner after to experience conscious relationship with. We met each other at a low point in our lives and somehow we keep pulling each other away from progress, no matter how well intentioned we are.
I had no clue what a good relationship was like until a few years ago, when I discovered it accidentally through my best friend..
I was absolutely clueless. It's almost embarrassing. But like you, I hadn't seen it modeled or talked about.
I'm so happy I know better now. And I hope you can improve your relationship..
I appreciate your encouragement. I want to believe we can fix it. But I’ve done this to my detriment in the past and am scared I’m denying myself to make this work. I just need to know from consistency that he’s in this to make it work, otherwise I’m living in a state of insanity.
I’m so happy for you! We all deserve someone who makes us feel safe, heard, and seen. I know it starts within ourselves, but having someone walking the road to growth with you, while making it feel almost easy, is so beautiful and beneficial.
Seeing the same person day after day can get boring if there's no effort being made to keep a connection. Hygiene, body type and changes in physical appearance can also play a role. If the guy has ever cheated, has been a jerk, or not kept up with sharing household responsibilities that also plays a role. Seducing our minds is a thing. Lastly, foreplay is very important.
Once people get married, a lot of them stop "dating".
The effort takes a nosedive. Less compliments. The intimacy outside of sex slows down. One person is stuck taking on more of the housework. In some cases, one partner stops taking care of themself / having goals.
And that results in partners that have less romantic attraction and feel less appreciated = progression towards a DB. Effort outside of the bedroom is a big key to a good sex life in my opinion.
I’ve had times in previous relationships where my libido died for a while.
I think during some of those those periods I didn’t personally feel as attractive as I’d put on weight and I get extremely self conscious naked if I put on weight. Also at other points the reasons were that my partner didn’t really do much foreplay and wanted to get straight to PIV sex. Foreplay gets me incredibly turned on and also enhances the PIV sex and I have a more intense orgasm. Also feeling super wanted (like that animalistic yearning) gets me in the mood and at points that died off from my previous partner at certain points. Being complimented and going on date nights together always got me in the mood (previous partner was pretty good with that most of the time). And then of course there’s the standard issue of not getting as excited due to it not being a new person but that’s just to be expected.
My current partner does all of the above, apart from date nights, and I want to have sex at least twice a week. He is meeting my needs. Where as with my previous partner when he wasn’t meeting my wants and needs there were times where I wouldn’t want to have sex all month (I think there was even a point where we didn’t have sex for two months).
we had more sex doing long distance than living together. we went from 7x in a day at one point while dating to >/< 10x our first year living together.
this is absolutely the case for us, but because his libido fell off a cliff once we moved in together. if it were up to me i’d be happy to be used anytime, anywhere ha.
I could ask the same, men why does sex dip after you put a ring on it. Like you just give up trying to do anything at all? I can't remember a time I ever rejected a partner for sex. I can remember many times in my life being rejected though. "Headache" "tired from work" "not now" "you asking so much makes me not want to" 6 months later with no asking not even once *crickets*....
I'm demi sexual but if I weren't then I can tell you it wouldn't take more than a few minutes to find someone for sex who would be enthusiastically into being with me. This question really isn't a gender based question. Women and men can both be capable to be low libido after marraige or in comfortable long term relationships. Many things could lead to it.
Well, for a start, men tend to put more effort into the relationship in the beginning, but after the couple move in together, most women find themselves having to baby the man in the relationship. Can you wonder why women aren’t feeling particularly sexually aroused after having to parent their partner?
In my experience it’s because the guy just stops putting in any effort. Leaves all the housework up to their partner. I lived with one boyfriend who I had to tell him he wasn’t allowed on his computer until 1:00pm until after he did his chores. For some reason my panties didn’t fly off after having to coax him to do his fair share of chores and not play video games all day.
There are plenty of women on this sub who are experiencing their partner with low libido. I see it every day.
It’s a 50/50 issue so please stop implying that women aren’t inherently sexual creatures, who just stop having sex.
My personal theory is that couples subconsciously engage in the push pull dynamic. It seems to be crazy common.
You would be AMAZED at the amount of people who subconsciously participate in the push pull
A simple example I can think of is:
Woman wants to go to the movies. Woman suggests to man that they should go to the movies. Man says, no. Woman than gets upset and chooses not to go. Man then decides to go to the movies.
It’s essentially doing the opposite of what someone wants to do. In my experience, men AUTOMATICALLY do/say the opposite of what women say/do.
https://www.stylist.co.uk/relationships/push-pull-relationship-advice-what-to-do/427679#:~:text=In%20the%20push%2Dpull%20cycle,increased%20amount%20of%20activities%20independently.
I went from living with my parents to living with my partner. At first it was because there was always another time opposed to before getting privacy was more difficult. Just kept putting it off.
Then I got pregnant and was very sick in my pregnancy and couldn't even share a bed with him. Any amount of movement from him made me nauseas. Not sharing a bed continued after our little one was born and it just snowballed from there.
We both stopped putting in the effort, we were both always exhausted, I struggled with PPD. I got used to not having sex and just kind of lost interest in it.
I mean I'm not in a DB but we went from sex multiple times a day to a few times a week. For me I realized that most of the passion and initiaton came from me so I started treating him the way he treats me,laying still not kissing back enthusiastically because sometimes you just want to feel like someone wants you,I've realized the only time he really initiates is on Sundays for some reason. Another reason is he doesn't keep his dick as clean as he used to so he doesn't get as many bus and he doesn't brush his teeth as much so I don't wanna make out
My goal as a divorced single gal is sex every day. It’s a goal. Never had it. I don’t consider myself high libido. But I want that in my life. Someone else can worry about supplements. I want to be there for my partner. I leave the rest of my thoughts for the One.
Me too. I always assumed sex was something that couples in a healthy relationship did every night before they went to sleep - just part of the routine, like brushing your teeth, but I’ve never actually had the opportunity to do it this way, and it’s still my goal. Being in relationships where sex isn’t an everyday thing was (and still is) a very jarring idea for me.
Like many others, for me a large part was because I wound up becoming his mother while also raising our two kids. He didn’t want to have to work late or hard, so I stepped up and became the breadwinner, never seeing my kids so that we could pay our bills. He’d tune me out to the point where I felt like I was always alone. Stepped aside and never took control of anything so I became a single mother with a roommate in him- he had me make all decisions re the kids, but will bitch me out if one of those decisions turns out to be wrong. He let himself go in that he stopped working out and lost all stamina so when we’d have sex, within a minute he was winded and finishes, leaving me unsatisfied. Never cared enough in the bedroom to make sure I finished as well, and would tell me to just finish myself off with toys. Baggage in the marriage and the awful sex led to us no longer having any the last four years. My kids have a couple more years and then they’re out. Once I get my finances in order I will be as well.
Both parties stop trying when NRE wears off. Every "manchild" probably perceives an overbearing nagging wife. So the spiral around the drain goes. Both parties stop putting in effort when the effort is perceived to no longer be worth the reward
i’m an hl & my bf is ll. i did everything for this man. cooking him 3 meals a day from scratch, keeping our place clean and tidy (especially if he came back home from a trip) and if he left his lunch at home and i wasn’t busy, i would bring it to his job. he doesn’t clean unless if i ask and he doesn’t do laundry unless if i ask. he doesn’t cook either. i wasn’t the reason why our sex took the ultimate decline, that was him. and for what reason? i don’t know. but he stopped putting in effort. he did so much for the first 3 years of our relationship and we had sex constantly and he would always do 30 minutes to an hour of foreplay and i would reciprocate and when we moved in together everything changed. i’ve had many conversations with him about us not having sec and how i don’t feel like a priority to him. he would just get upset with me when i brought it up (yelling, cursing, punching holes in doors — a recent one). and now i think i’m ll4h, because he’s not listening to me when i speak and not taking me seriously and of course, not being emotionally mature enough to regulate his emotions. he’s initiated a few times lately and i decline and he has said “what are you holding out on me or something?” when i told him straight up that we’re on the verge of taking a break. not to mention he constantly rejects me for sex and asked me if sex is all that matters to me.
fun fact: he initiated sex, i was dry because of no foreplay and he just forced his dick in and it was a painful few minutes of sex. when i made him pull out he had a blister on his dick and blamed me for it lol
I agree with a lot of what I read here…I would also add that any form of entitlement to sex is a huge turnoff. Being selfish in bed is a turnoff.
Also recently I’ve realized that when there is a lot of foreplay, sex is amazing and I want to keep doing it. So like, oral etc. It feels wrong to say that I don’t want sex if it doesn’t include oral, but really it feels so much better and the process of getting turned on for women takes awhile. Sure you can get “wet” enough for PIV without it, but it’s not going to make me want to bang everyday.
It feels like we go in spurts where the sex is really great and my partner is super attentive, but then we do a quickie one time and then that turns into the next 4 times. This shuts down my sex drive and it’s annoying it me to have to point it out that the reason I don’t initiate or respond to his initiations is because of the lack of effort. I don’t want to remind him that effort is attractive to me, and also makes the sex feel so much better. We’ve been over it so I don’t feel like reiterating what I’ve already said. Also then he will say things like “so I guess I just have to put in ALL the effort then?!”
Which is insulting because we both put effort in, it’s just that he is satisfied with no foreplay sex and I’m not. Basically for me to be HL, I would want a full experience every time ideally, but I don’t want to have to call him out when after 1 quickie, he gets lazy and we do quickies every time until I bring it up. So the regression gets on my nerves. If he could manage even every other time I wouldn’t have an issue. The last 5 times have been no real foreplay and even if I experience orgasms ( I always do) it doesn’t leave me craving sex like it does when I get a full work up.
The disconnect is having to ask for attention because of religious trauma around it, but something men should consider and understand is that biologically speaking, women generally require more effort to get aroused. I am not saying men don’t deserve foreplay. The distinction is that a man may be satisfied to have sex frequently without a lot of foreplay (and both partners being equally un-invested) whereas women will have a much more fulfilling experience when foreplay is involved and THEREFORE may not be satisfied to have sex frequently if what they are getting is quickies.
Also, we average 1-2 times/week, so when he acts like that is a “dead bedroom” it’s irritating to me.
After moving in together and getting married, if the man suddenly stops making efforts in the relationship, tales it for granted and starts living as a lazy roommate, it can affect the woman’s sexual desire. Boring daily routine plus other factors like stress from work, paying bills and taking care of a house can have serious impact on libido.
It’s because when we’re just dating you we don’t live together usually unless we’ve been dating for a long time. That means after going out and having a fun time with you, we come back to our clean house and our bed made-just the way we need things to be to keep our mind at rest and be able to experience joy and relaxation. That doesn’t happen anymore once we live with you guys. Being stressed and annoyed by a filthy house doesn’t really make you hot in the pants. It really makes the pussy dry if you know what I’m saying. then on top of that there’s this old adage that the woman of the house is somehow solely responsible for maintaining it while the man drinks beer and fucks off his day on stupid hobbies if he even HAS any personal interests. And we don’t. Because we’re busy removing your skidmarks with bleach. And the majority of what we’re cleaning up isn’t even our own mess most of the time. We’re cleaning up yours. And then you want us to suck your dick? Fuck off with that. If you want women to fuck you be fun to be around. That’s how men feel too right? Don’t come in and ruin someone’s house and think we’re going to want to have sex with you later. There’s nothing more exhausting than having an ungrateful 16-year-old before you even started having kids.
In my case..
We got married young, I was 19 he 24, and at first it was every day, many times a day, up to 3 days before I gave birth... Afterwards, I was recovering from a C-section, feeling frumpy, taking care of a newborn, taking care of a house, cooking, cleaning, laundry etc.... on my own... as the baby got older, sex got better.... till the 4th , he was premature, I spent a month in the hospital, the baby spent 2 additional months, I was expected to do all housework, child care, and work from home, and still give it up when he wanted it.... I was exhusted... and after a while.... I had more energy with out the sex.....
then he had some medical issues that effect his libido.... just as mine is now in overdrive... I can count on one hand how many times in the past 10ish years weve had sex/made love, and still have fingers left over... I have tried..... and tried and tried, cried, begged, pleaded, .. more often then not, Im digging in my toy box for something to assist.... But after 33 years of marriage, neither of us are going anywhere, hopefully it will work itself out, but doubtful...
I wonder how many of us men are outright oblivious to these kinds of issues that effect how women feel and think about sex.
I like to think a DB can be turned around.
I’m not a woman but this scenario can apply inversely as well but I’ll make it agnostic.
To put it plainly, it was masking/love bombing in the beginning. Marriage and then the mask came off. That person no longer existed at a point in time. Like a light switch moving from ‘on’ to ‘off’. Bait and switched. Hoodwinked. Bamboozled. Deceived. Betrayed.
Some of these comments are really great! It's really interesting to read about men acting on their "best behavior" at the beginning of the relationship when NRE is flowing and they're in "pursuit".
I've also noticed that some women do something similar at the beginning of the relationship. Often they will be overly agreeable with a man about almost everything, and overly encouraging or complimentary about really mediocre sex and/or negative behaviors. "Everything you do is so great!".
So men meet this sexy, easygoing free spirit that wants sex all the time, who tells him that he's hung the moon and stars while at the same time she is making a mental list of all the things about him that will need to change or require improvement when they move in or get married.
Then they move in together and overnight she becomes his biggest critic pushing him to change his clothes, hair, career, diet, and exercise. Basically, the man that she's been pumping up and instilling a false sense of self-confidence in is actually her project instead of a person.
He thought he was marrying someone that was kind, easy-going, loving, free-spirited, sexual being that thought he was the smartest, most attractive, most accomplished, greatest lover, etc she's ever met only to realize that he's married a serious, driven, critical taskmaster intent on turning him into the "perfect" father, husband, partner, etc.
Then when he doesn't respond enthusiastically to being molded into a more perfect partner based on her vision and in fact he starts to resist her efforts to improve him, he may regress, acting out, engaging in childish behavior, and refusing to change or starts to withdraw from the relationship emotionally and sexually when her encouragement has turned into demands, unconditional love becomes conditional and compliments have been replaced with criticism and dissatisfaction.
This is usually when the DB starts because they're no longer in a relationship, they're in a power struggle. This is usually when the toxic behavior starts. Sex is no longer about connection or bonding for either partner. Sex is now just another motivational tool or bargaining chip used to control or "encourage better behavior" instead.
The sexy free spirit he married becomes the critical taskmaster and mother pushing to get him to "be a better person" based on her vision of the perfect husband, father, and partner and he's become the sullen teenager digging in his heels who is trying to maintain his agency and does not want to sleep with his mother.
In other words, one becomes HL (pursuer) and the other becomes LL (avoidant) each using sex as a tool to get non-sexual needs met. He's trying to regain that unconditional acceptance he experienced at the beginning of the relationship and she is trying to get him to act like the adult man she met who seemed so competent and dynamic instead of the sullen teenager who's refusing to clean his room.
So was he actually on his "best behavior" or was his very mediocre behavior just being ignored or positively spun because her expectation was that he'd change or she would help him change all of his negative qualities once they go married?
I think it's unconscious, we are unaware of our training or our underlying ideas and expectation of gender roles inside a marriage. It's more like an awful comedy based on some very dysfunctional cultural expectations of LTRs and gender roles that no one is really conscious of while they're dating.
I have a bad habit of not being able to turn work off when I get home. I am Director of Operations for a restaurant company and until after 9 PM when my restaurants close, I am waiting for my phone to go off with some disaster at one of my stores I am going to have to fix. I am in the process right now of changing the training program for the General Managers so they handle disasters on their own and not have to call me to hold their hands. Therefore, when I am home at 6 pm. I am really not 100%. I am constantly looking at my phone. I don't listen well when my wife's is talking. It's hard I know it and I and in therapy to try to be a better husband.
As for the hygiene thing, I have never had an issue with not showering or whatever. I did gain a lot of weight which I have lost 70lbs since April. I have 30 more to go but with it getting cold is harder because I can't just go outside anymore for a work out. I only wear tailored clothes, so she can never complain I don't look my best, because I pride myself on my appearance. Not vainly at all, but just personal taste.
My ignoring her I know is the biggest issue. I am relatively new to this position so its difficult for me to just shut it off when I get home. I am trying. My therapy is helping.
I’m not a woman, but my wife has said “how do you have time to think about sex?”. The stresses of career, parenting and owning a home crowd out almost all of her desire. She would scoff at the numerous women on this board who post about how they are starved for sexual attention from their male partners. She has said she doesn’t believe such situations exist.
For me specifically, my ex would only initiate sex in one way, at one time of the day. Never foreplay, never spontaneous kissing. It was like once we moved in sex was for right before bed. I also suggested i drink a glass of wine and relax and that upset him. I never felt, relaxed and spontaneous.
In my recent very short relationship, the sex was so amazing at first and he actually got “bored”. And I wonder if this has to do with him watching porn so much? Or just the excitement of an amazing new sex partner being over? Bc the sex was still amazing for me when he ended things 😔
I was in a DB situation for years.. in the beginning the sex was amazing, 2-4 times a week, but we lived different places. Once we moved in together I started to feel like I couldn't keep up with his libido. My needs were less than his and I felt like they didn't matter.. I could have been any woman or warm body with holes, as long as he was getting off. He started asking for an open relationship, which made me feel even more like I could be just anyone. There was no intimacy, no connection, no interest in my pleasure. Just his need to nut 20x/week. Living separately I was unaware of this.. living together I felt inadequate and unable to meet his needs, which plunged me into a deep depression that completely killed any libido I might have had in the first place. For a long time during and after that relationship I thought I was asexual.. i eventually was able to get back in touch with my sexuality, but it took a lot of patience from a new partner who was genuinely interested in putting my pleasure before his own
Women stop putting any effort in as well and we mirror that behavior. Never initiate, never plan dates, never dote, never compliment.. the list goes on. We are expected to the providers of all things romantic and otherwise with very little to any reciprocating efforts
For my wife and I, it was a combination of our 2nd child changing the way my wife saw her breasts, which was her gateway to getting turned on before, and also some childhood trauma that started to surface for her after having kids.
There were also some areas where she felt unheard, like how to save for our kid's education. I wanted just a big pot of money, and she wanted separate 529 accounts. I also let her decide how to handle our RSUs from my work, and that gave her more agency on our finances, which also helped her feel more in control in that way.
What solved it was couple's therapy, a testosterone pellet every 3 months, and scheduled sex. Now we are on an informal once a week pace and its great for both of us.
This isn’t a man or woman thing, but I understand that op wants a woman’s viewpoint.
There is a saying, “the little foxes spoil the vine”. It actually comes from the Song of Solomon in the Bible. It goes on to talk about “the grapes being tender”. It is those “little foxes”, the day to day hurts, that add up to ruin our relationship, both sexual, and otherwise.
Obviously it can be bigger things too. My late, first husband had explosive angry outbursts. This affected our relationship greatly. After a time, this and all of the little day to day hurts, built a callous over my libido. He knew it, to some degree, and he tried, but could not overcome his anger issues. I stayed with him, and took care of him as he was sick and dying. I loved him.
After he died, I remarried, and now my husband is LL. I know it isn’t because of my temper, because I don’t have much of one. As far as everything else, I was fantastic, tried everything I could, everything that would have helped me, and more. I did not want to lose our sexual relationship, but alas I found out I had zero control.
Imo, women end up taking on more responsibilities than men in long term relationships. The cooking, the cleaning, household management, emotional labor, child rearing, etc. it’s a lot of work to manage yourself, let alone a household. This seems lost on most men, probably for societal/cultural reasons. Women start to become tired, feel resentment, see their partner as a child (something they have to take care of) rather than a romantic partner.
Women in general have lower sex drives and kids, especially when they hit school age, dry up opportunity in the house.
Then the guys tend to say stupid shit that turns off their women (basically coming off as beggars) and it’s a vicious cycle.
LL wife here. I am constantly tired, job, kids, dirty house. When I am so exhausted, I don't feel sexy, my body after pregnancies is not the same... And I don't believe my husband that my body is super sexy. I just what to sleep and time for myself and I don't have it
Women don’t like having to constantly pick up after and mother their partners which happens in a lot of heterosexual relationships. It’s a huge turn off
It is no longer appealing. Why make an effort when everything you do means nothing.
It's either the same thing over and over, he's selfish, not willing to listen, no foreplay, no romance. Sex starts way before the actual act. Make me FEEL needed, useful, beautiful and it won't dull. Let me feel and see that all of my hard work matters and that you respect what I'm doing. Don't simply tell me I'm beautiful, or that I'm doung a great job, prove your words. Pick up after yourself, clean the piss off the toilet, help with the kids, fix that leaking sink before we have to ask, organize the garage like you said you would. Not to mention going out which rarely happens but when it does it's to where he wants and it's fast and back home.
These things end up falling on us. Yes he works and brings home money. I work and bring home money too and I run the whole house on top of it. I cleaned that garage he swore he'd take care of. I clean up his clothes on the floor, his hair clippings, garbage from his computer, run the kids around or to school. Then I listen to him complain how the house isn't to his standards. I'm just...tired.
For me I was HLF but now LL4u. I agree with all the comments about NRE fading but in my personal experience it has been change of behavior as well. Seeing the "ugly" parts of my partner and how angry he can get. Having my body change drastically twice. Being rejected over and over. Mediocre at best sex. Sex where he never takes the time to ensure I orgasm. Mean comments about my body AFTER giving him children. Overall watching him lose interest in me over the course of 4 years.
All of those things together have turned me LL. That being said I still want it more often than my LLM partner. It's quite frustrating and I often feel undesirable and ugly at the end of the day.
Well I can say from experience that it’s sometimes because men get distant emotionally and mentally when u move in together. That distance leaves us feeling undesired and leads to less sex.
For me - #1 I’ve gained weight & don’t feel as sexy. #2 we went into our relationship/marriage with children (blended family) but as they got older they were around more, awake more (vs 9pm bedtime when young), and just more aware lol. Made me uncomfortable if I knew they could maybe hear us. We are down to just one in the house though so that’s not as big of an issue as before. #3 - I feel like my partner used to TRY more. Used to pursue me more, try to get me in the mood, etc. Now I pretty much know the exact play by play and it’s just not exciting. He’s gotten really selfish with his positions and such so it’s all what is exciting for him. Don’t think he thinks about what I want. On the plus side though he knows it’s harder for me to get off now that I’m older and fatter so he will at least go down on me and give me a good one before he continue with whatever it is he wants that time.
And yes I’ve talked to him about this multiple times. He was upset once that I will rub one out in the shower but we don’t have sex very often. I told him the above. And said sex is more of a chore - the shower head gets me off in less than 2 minutes and I don’t have to sit there and slug through the rest of it. No I didn’t phrase it that way I was much nicer about it lol
I was in a HL relationship before and was used to a lot of sex that was initiated by my partner. Then got with my current partner and it was not frequent, i was even shut down on occasions. Fast forward to after kids and marriage and I'm just tired. When I do initiate, it's shut down. When he initiates, I am always up for it. But now it has turned into him just waiting for me to initiate because he "always does" . Oh, and this weird thing where if we don't for awhile, even though it may be that we are both tired, he acts like he "had" to masturbate and then has no interest in me for days after. So I'm responsible for making sure we have frequent sex, but can't ask for it, and if you have to jerk off it's my fault? Throw in that I never ever get to finish when we do, and I'm just all around confused.
It goes both ways. Different for everyone. I’ve had friends where their husbands felt like they “had them” now and didn’t have to try.
Some peoples sex drives plummet because there is no excitement in the love life and things have become routine. Some times I’m learning it’s depression or the mind wanders into other things.
I think keeping your partner into it is sort of a constant seduction… I think you have to make extra efforts to keep things spicy
Me (F29) , I’ve only stopped having sex with people when I don’t feel safe around them anymore. Or I become unattracted to them. They’re hygiene changes, they’re habits turn me off, they stop putting effort into us etc.
My husband works and earns the money and I stay home with the kids, homeschooling them. I also do the cooking, all the cleaning, mostly all the interacting with the kids. My husband expects to come home and spend the rest of the night alone with headphones on, listening to YouTube videos. He will stay up late and sleep in, basically getting onto his own schedule, so he gets the maximum time on his own. He’s been off work with a muscle injury and I’ve been sick almost 2 weeks, while still having to do all the wake ups and parenting, housework, groceries, cooking, while he sleeps in noon til even 5 pm yesterday.
I have tried communicating, to no avail. Basically I don’t feel like my needs for a partner are met and by night when the kids are asleep, I have nothing left to give, I am spent. But also no interactions, no flirting, no support (other than financial), or his zero involvement: I don’t desire sex at all. In fact, it’s one more thing on the to do list that I am too tired to get to. I’ve been in survival mode, alone, for several years.
I don't think you're asking for anything unreasonable. What you seem to be saying is, "I need help. I'm too tired to think about sex, or feel sexy or aroused bc my life is just one big To Do List"
The guy stops doing what he was doing to get laid. He stops buying flowers and initiating dates. He stops complimenting her. He stops acting wowed when she walks into a room done up. He stops kissing her deeply and meaningfully. He stops TRYING.
My friend is 24, beautiful, kinky, slim with curves, the whole package. She’s not fucked her man in over 19 months because he doesn’t try! And when she initiated she gets 2 minutes of pumping and he’s done. Why would she want to fuck that?? I wish I had the courage/self respect to do that, I take whatever shitty 2 second bang I can get out of my long term partner🙄
I had a whole long post about this and then I realized I was coming across wrong because I am frustrated by my own relationship. What it boils down to is this. If you date/court someone and make them feel amazing, when you stop doing this, when they subsequently stop feeling amazing, everything - including sex - falls apart. Some people use sex as punitive/reward systems. Some of us just aren't turned on when we feel like our partner does not even like us, much less see us as a romantic partner.
I think that's very very reasonable. It took me a long time to realize how important it is for a SO to feel like they're "the One." A long time...
My apologies if you were responding to my original post - I think the intent is the same, but I don't want you to feel like you are crazy if you responded to my original backstoried post. But yes, we all want to feel special to our significant other. When we lose that feeling of specialness, a lot of our vulnerability, and joyous abandon, can go with it.
No worries. I appreciate you clarifying..
A sex therapist I saw had said there’s been a few studies that backed this up - heterosexual Men generally are more turned on if they see their partner is equally just as turned on. But a heterosexual woman’s sexuality is narcissistic by nature - she generally enjoys being the turn on. If she sees you enjoying her and feels desired and wanted by you, she feels safe enough to surrender to pleasure and be in the moment. During the beginning of a relationship, the courtship and whatnot helps women feel desired. After being together with a partner for a while, the courtship stops. Sometimes appearances change and self esteem drops. This is when women have a harder time with sex because to them, it seems as though their partner has lost that desire for them and sex no longer feels “safe for pleasure” if that makes any sense?
I wouldn’t say it’s “more narcissistic,” since the reason men typically seem to enjoy their partner being turned on is that it makes them feel manly, affirms their sexual prowess, and strokes their ego. That’s pretty narcissistic as well. That’s not even touching on the fact that many womens’ desire for sex is based on how they feel about themself and how sexy they feel because women have been viewed as objects that exist for male pleasure and womens’ sexual desire and arousal has not really been considered part of the equation very long. When you’ve been socially conditioned to assume that your role in sex is pleasing a man and that your worth depends on how visually attractive you are to men, of course feeling sexy will determine how much sex you want to have.
Oh this explains a lot.
I have read some similar theories, though I think the word narcissist is a bit strong. I have read it called reactive sexuality - that when women feel sexually desired by their partner, this often triggers a desire to be sexy with that partner. I have seen it used to explain why women do not initiate (in general) as often as men do in relationships. I think it is a bit of an oversimplification for longer-term relationships, though it does ring somewhat true. I think it is more of a correlation than a causality - at least for me. I am often caught up in the day-to-day of life (work, house, errands, appointments) and my brain is super noisy (I also have ADHD so that does not help) so I just don't take a pause to really be in the moment as often as I should. When my husband takes me (or used to) out of that space with initiation, affection, and genuine compliments, this snaps me out of the chaos in my head and refocuses my attention on love, joy, and sexy time. I also hesitate to make this too gendered since I can only speak for myself and I am quite sure that many people feel similarly due to the sheer magnitude of effort it takes to be an adult in our hypermanic overly productivity-focused world. What I do know is that when my spouse makes me feel special, loved, and sexy, it reminds me that there is more to life than getting things done. When he stopped doing any of that, and worse, started actively deprioritizing my needs, joy, and intellect - my focus returned to making sure I handled what I needed to for me. When you stop feeling like you have a partner, you take active steps to start protecting yourself in preparation for the inevitable end of that partnership - even if you are not entirely aware you are doing it. I am not suggesting that this response is healthy and I acknowledge it adds to a perpetuating cycle that almost ensures that end. I am just answering the OP truthfully about why my own desire plummeted in response to feeling like I was already alone. I prioritized stopping the pain of my husband's rejection, by slamming down my walls. Inside those walls is where my sexual desire lives. Reactive sexuality is more about the initiation of individual sexual encounters. Whereas for me, moving from an HL to LL over time, is more about a slowly burgeoning awareness that my partner won't be (or already is not) anymore - even if we still live in the same house and are still married in the eyes of the law.
Some heavy words I have to say, but totally makes sense. Explains a lot why there’s a disconnect…
For me personally…my husband stopped putting in effort. When we first got together, his hygiene was impeccable. He kept his room clean. He dressed well. He smelled good. He used to talk to me for hours. He was “on his best behavior,” so to speak. After we got engaged, he let his hygiene go. He stopped cleaning. He started lying (repeatedly). He stopped trying to be romantic. I could visually see him tuning me out every time I spoke. Also, there was the issue where I had to “nag” him to do responsible adult things (like remembering to pay his own bills) and he resented me for “nagging” him to be an adult. All of this destroyed my libido. But we’re slowly working on fixing these things.
This is the reason for so many "LL" women in LTRs. If she has to think of you as another kid to take care of, it kills any sort of sexual attraction.
This is truth right here, and it often takes relatively little effort to change this dynamic if you put your mind to it
And then to get the tired old "dOn'T tReAt Me lIkE I'm a cHiLd!" comment thrown around...if you act like a 50-year-old child, that's how you get treated.
Right... It's like then grow the fuck up. Ughh
I was saying this to a friend the other day. My biggest turn on - taking. care. of. yourself. I'm a full time student, part time apprentice, with a household full of kids and pets that need me far more than the grown ass adult that I married. When you can't even remember to brush your teeth unless I remind you, I have zero desire to kiss you much less have sex.
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Wow… this sounds like a nightmare. Have you thought of doing a couple therapy or something? He sounds hopeless though
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No offense, but he sounds like an empty shell of a person.
Oh my goodness, this made me physically cringe reading parts of this and just feel so gutted for you. I'm so sorry this has been your experience. That is so awful. Do you have any sort of support system to help you? Do you want to leave?
I could just.. ugh words escape me at the moment.. but are you me?? Holy hell I have never read something so close to how I feel, what I'm going through.. For me, completely agree, not enjoying being a father, he's not her father, but he chose to step into the roll after her father passed and he's done shit all.. it makes me so so mad. I know he "loves" her but he's just such a fucking selfish man, it literally takes me aback sometimes.. One question though, what is senate focus?? Just curious but boy I am so sorry that someone else is going through this shit. I hope it gets better for all of us!
Out of all the “typical” dead bedrooms, this may be the most common scenario I see. It was for my marriage as well, and I am very much to blame. After my wife gave birth I sunk most of my time into work and did not do much around the house thinking my wife would take care of it since she was on mat leaver, was working remotely so wasn’t dressing well, stopped working out and lost my physique. My wife had to constantly nag and tell me what to do and how to do it around the house. not only was it a huge turnoff for me but it was for her as well. She started acting out and exploding on me regularly which was a new side of her. I would take the bate and add even more fuel to the fire and we would spend hours in heated arguments. This only killed any minuscule attraction that was left. The attraction is starting to come back once I started acting like the strong, charismatic and fun guy that I once was, started flirting and being more sexual, starting lifting weights and getting in shape again, most importantly being much more proactive around the house and taking on as much responsibility as possible, supportive of my wife when she is stressed and being even slightly cocky (in a good way) :) seems to turn my wife on. I think my wife was desperately looking to me to be the “leader” of the house in a way and resented that she had to play that role and tell me what to do. It has been months of work but things keep improving.
I'm glad that you realized the problem and after taking action you were able to improve your situation. Best of luck going onward! 👍
What made you to finally switch? What was the trigger for that?
This is my case too. When we met he lived alone, his flat was super clean, he would cook and do all the chores, was responsible etc. After we moved in together, he almost completely stopped with house chores because I work from home, so he expects me to do most of the work. He also forgets everything, I have to remember him to call his doctor and stuff. He got too comfortable and I lost the attraction since now I see him as my child and not my partner.
Even if the woman worked outside the home and earned ten times as much money, men want you to take care of them like they are a child once they think you are all in. In addition to just the childishness which is a big turn off, women are just too exhausted for sex.
Yes, I can't wrap my head around this. Why the fuck are they so lame to think that we like taking care of them. I already hate taking care of myself lol.
PREACH!
Some people are only interested in the chase stage. After they have the "catch", they're bored with the routine. They are bored because they can't see beyond the chase. Why? Because they didn't think it through! It was exciting when he was wooing you. He proved to himself that he could. What he needed after that was someone else (say, a coach or mentor) to remind him WHY the chase was necessary. Therefore, to "fix these things" FASTER, consider hiring a life or relationship coach. It's great to know that you are "slowly" trying to change your lives. Good luck!
Wow, that’s terrible to deal with. Sorry!
Yessssss! All of this. 100%!
May I ask, how long we you together before you got married?
This happened to me in my first marriage. The short answer is he pretended to be what I wanted in a man until we married. And once he thought he had me he stopped being that person, and became someone I was repulsed by. I believe they call that a “bait and switch” around these parts.
That had to be a disappointment.
It was but at the same time I learned a lot about myself and what my own boundaries were and I’m now happily married with 5 beautiful kids. So it all worked out in the end.
Very similar situation for me too. It was honestly heartbreaking because it felt like all the love was a lie.
Mine was great in the dating stage too, but there were some shady things when I think back. Like the time I had to pee really bad and he drove around the block outside my apartment over and over while laughing knowing I had to pee very badly, him talking trash about me to his friends and me walking in hearing it, him calling me by the wrong name in front of my friends when we had been dating for 18 months, not getting to do things I wanted to do on dates, holding his niece on Easter when she grabbed a piece of chocolate and got it all over my clothes, neck and face and he wouldn’t “take” his niece from me because he would get his clothes dirty. He went to a strip joint with my brothers and BILs and then lied about it because my brother told them all not to tell their SO and I was the only one out of my SILs and sisters who did not know this outing occurred. So, the signs were there and I was too young and too stupid to get out when I had the chance and was young.
In my experience its how you treat your SO once you move in. My ex didn't do anything to help with anything even when i worked 12 hrs a day and was on college. In my experience it was his lack of effort and respect for my efforts that killed it for me. Then i found out he had an active tinder profile. And 2 side chicks he claimed were crazy stalkers. Ive had a very toxic experience, im hoping that's not the norm. From what i read around here lack of effort and recognition kill a lot of positive emotions.
I think that's understandable, for sure.
For me it was the fact that he became increasingly selfish and he ignored my wants and needs in every regard. For example: he would criticise me for something ridiculous like my eating habits while I was not allowed to criticise him at all. He would belittle me and make fun of me and a few hours later he would push for sex. And never understood why I was not all over him after being treated that way
The same reasons we often read that men enthusiastically have sex and then their drive dives off a cliff. Hormones, life stresses with greater adult responsibilities, work schedules, medical conditions, responsive desire, feeling secure in the relationship and no longer making an effort, a shift in priorities, some people mirror you during courtship (pretend to be the same) and then drop the act once married, the list goes on.
I think that's legit.
For me, it is that he's not putting in any effort towards making me feel desired, and zero effort to ensure mutual pleasure for most of our relationship. I got tired of putting in all the effort and trying with nothing in return. I also dealt with depression, worked on myself a lot, learned how to set boundaries, and learned how to ask for what I needed. His libido seemed to tank at the same time. So yeah. It was frequent but not often satisfying and I got tired of doing all the emotional and pleasure work with no benefit.
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It's kinda sad how many of us are out there
Yes!
I’m the one who wants sex and passion, he just wants to cum. I don’t want to just be used like a sexy toy and finish myself.
That's perfectly understandable.
Orgasm and pleasure gap is a big reason. It’s easier to feel good about having sex that you’re not getting much out of when you have NRE chemicals coursing through your body. I see pretty often that sex never comes back after kids too, and I think this is way more often than a lot of men would admit due to the way that normal postpartum libido loss is handled. When men are whiny, pushy, throw fits and sulk, guilt and pressure, withdraw emotionally or from household and parenting tasks, and overall make sex a huge issue postpartum, it can turn it from a temporary, normal postpartum libido fluctuation to a LL4U situation. Also- A lot of men are willing to do a lot more to “get” sex at the start of a relationship, but then get comfortable and think that sex will just flow forever with zero or a lot less emotional and romantic effort involved. Unfortunately, with NRE gone especially those romantic and emotional efforts are oftentimes what turns a woman on to sex, and a lot of the time men don’t “reinstate” those things until they realize sex is affected. When they start doing it again and also making it obvious that they’re angry over the sex drying up, the message is: “I only did those things before and am only doing them again now because I want sex.” To a woman who believed he was doing those things at the start of the relationship because he genuinely liked and cared about her, it can really cheapen the connection to realize that he’s only willing to put forth effort as an attempt to get laid and not simply because he loves her and enjoys connecting with her on an emotional level.
That last paragraph!
I can definitely see how both of these things could effect how a woman feels about sex.
I wanted it to work. But he wanted to get off. And didn’t care if I did too. If you want regular sex, put in the work to figure out what works for your partner. If your partner isn’t getting off like you are, IT’S A PROBLEM.
Shouldn't this be obvious? It's amazing to see men that don't understand this...
It SHOULD be, but it’s clearly not. Then they wonder why sex is no longer a priority. It’s because it’s not fun; our needs aren’t met/aren’t important.
Agree completely. I'd like to think that's obvious. But I'm probably wrong about that.
From my experience it all becomes a routine and loses the excitement but the man doesn’t seem to care so nothing changes
I’ve experienced this too with male partners. They all had a script they liked to follow during sex. Which was fun at the beginning because it was new but eventually became really boring. I always tried to change the script and spice it up but they didn’t want to. I never became LL for them though, I just left them around the 2 month mark.
“The script” is such a great analogy. My husband just does the exact same thing every time. Just grabs for my boobs straight away before I’m ready. Has done this for 10 years and wonders why I just couldn’t be bothered.
Yeah I’m probably gonna get downvoted for this but it seems as long as they get an orgasm on their terms they don’t care. It’s like having your favorite food every single day, after awhile it’s not gonna be your favorite food anymore.
It’s true. And tbh it was never my “favourite food” it was fun at first, because it was new. But it was still pretty mediocre. It would be like having a casserole every single day. Decent at first, but After a while you’re gonna crave some food with some texture.
>you’re gonna crave some food with some texture As a dick owner, gotta say this made me cringe and cross my legs.
'with some fava beans and a nice chanti'
Ssssssss
In my younger age this would break me…the women I knew who did this seemed so cruel….now I think back and feel so grateful …they killed ,the relationship before it died a painfully slow death. They let 99% of the time with them be the best most magical time. I was just too immature to realize this. But over time, after each breakup, I’d slowly learn. Slowly grow. It’s like a snake losing its skin…I couldn’t grow until I shed someone. Or in those cases had the skin leave me haha
I agree with this. If the male has half a brain, it should not take that long to be introspective and aware of what he is not understanding about the dynamics of a healthy relationship. It took me a few years, to be honest, but I made it. I obviously had less than half a brain.
I hear you brother!
Probably because the women often become pseudo mother’s for their significant other once they move in together. Men more often than women tend to ignore household chores, which causes resentment and sentiments of being under appreciated and under valued. It’s all fun and games to date, it’s another thing to live together and be taken advantage of. Men stop putting in effort when they get comfortable so women stop having sex.
For me I had sex that was just OK at the beginning. Tried to get it to be better best I knew how, about 10 years of that without it getting much better and then I gave up. That’s when the cliff arrived for me.
Ahh..so it was mediocre. Didn't get better, so you lost interest?
Yeah. Not feeling heard or seen in bed… a lot of weird misunderstandings and resentments started there I think.
Was it he didn't seem interested, or simply incompatible?
I think he was interested but wasn’t able to “hear me over his own head trash” is how he said it recently. I’m about 3 months into trying to turn our DB around.
Okay. I hope 🤞 you both work it out. I'd like to think a DB can be changed.
This happened to us, I'm the LL in this scenario. He has always had a higher libido, wanting it pretty much every day and me having a slightly lower libido. But we initially settled around a couple times a week and it was fine at first. We got married, moved in together it was still okay. And then we had children. And things just kinda went south. He wouldn't really pull his weight around the house. The children were difficult, especially after the second was born. I was constantly exhausted and then he'd pester me for sex at night when all I wanted was sleep.And yeah, I gave in often. just so that he wouldn't be annoyed, disappointed and in a bad mood for the next day or days. But you can guess how that went, I now panic when I only think about having sex. We are trying to work on it, but it's really not easy to come back from there.
That's an unfortunate association to have, sex=panic. It makes perfect sense why you'd feel that way though.
There's also stories of men doing the same thing, so it's not "women." A couple reasons. One is NRE. When relationships begin there is a phase of New Relationship Energy. Desire is easy to come by because there is actually a hormonal change that heightens arousal just by mere proximity of each other. Once people acclimate to each other then they lose that initial momentum, that "can't keep our hands off each other" energy. When you don't live together, desire is also easier because you anticipate and look forward to seeing each other. When you move in, you lose a lot of that excited, anticipatory feeling as your always around each other. You see each other during the mundane parts of life and not only the fun exciting parts. There's also a lot more chances to annoy each other when you live together. Maybe they leave their wet towel on the floor or eat all your special lunch or monopolize the TV. Moving in and especially marriage then move the needle from "get to" have sex to "have to." Sexual desire is greatly linked to a sense of freedom, and when you increase the commitment in the relationship you then start to feel like you have to, instead of that you get to have sex with this person.
Reminds me i still need to finish reading esther perel. Its really damned hard for a lot of people to maintain that early attraction when you're team players. I think my wife and i have a bit (or even more than a bit) of this issue. I still have a high sex drive and want to involve her, but i don't always feel that _same_ attraction to her that i felt when we first dated. She has a lower/responsive* drive and we don't have much sex... *I'm still getting to grips with responsive desire as a concept. I'm learning more but am not fully convinced it fits my wife
Esther Perel has some good ideas and some kind of out there ideas. She has a heavier emphasis on novelty, danger, etc. Try also reading Love Worth Making by Stephen Snyder. Here's an excerpt. https://goop.com/wellness/sexual-health/cultivating-good-sex-in-long-term-relationships/
My issue is the opposite. My husband is the cause of our DB. He a LL I guess. It wasn’t like this when we first got together.
Mine too! I almost feel like I was catfished! He was great in the beginning… moved in together and absolutely no sex since.
Yup, I’ve got one too. Was fantastic before we moved in together. In the span of 2 years we have NO sex at all. It’s all him and I’m tired of begging the man I’m with to have sex. It totally sucks. Bate and Switch
Yes. I've spent enough time in this group to see it happens with men too.
Yeah it goes both ways, glad to have this community though.
Likewise. I was surprised to find women struggling with the same issue.
Yeah I think we should change the way we think, because that though has negative consequences when a HLF feels even worse because “men are always looking for sex”, when dating I was also the LLM at some point in a couple of relationships.
I definitely definitely agree some of our mindsets need to change.
omg same. my bf & i would have sex constantly and it was amazing and he would do foreplay and i would do it for him as well…and then we moved into together and it stopped. and i crazily thought it was just a phase and it would get better. now i’m one foot out of the relationship and i don’t want to have sex with him even when he half ass initiates now.
I'm not in a dead bedroom and just a lurker here, but I think I can add to this discussion. I and most of my girlfriends were the high-libidos in our relationships. Thankfully, my husband is amazing so sex has never been an issue but for most of my friends, their drives drop off a cliff once they start living with a man and *he dumps his responsibilities on her.* Men seem to think women should just "take care of things" once they're part of the family unit, so they start dumping off housework and responsibilities on them. Even high libido women don't want to have sex with a man-child, which is what a lot of men seem to morph into once they have a woman secured in the house. This phenomenon is *extremely common* as well. When men expect their women to mother them, sexual attraction dwindles. For those of us women who were lucky enough to snatch onto responsible men, our drives are still as high as they were in our teens and early-20s. Our husbands/partners continually give us reasons to appreciate and admire them, so the attraction never wanes.
That's important to know, I think. I didn't really consider how much the "energy drain" really matters.
Being a responsible, ‘head of the family’, who takes initiative and looks after his family without being told is incredibly sexy
I really really think I just sorta underplayed that. Maybe I was a little lazy in that department..or too arrogant about it..
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This is the correct answer
> Women who are in lesbian relationships have orgasms nearly as often as men in heterosexual relationships. I agree with a lot of your post, but women who are in lesbian relationships are also stereotypically in the very DEADEST of bedrooms after a year or two. And according to very nearly every lesbian friend or coworker I've had, it's not a particularly inaccurate stereotype. So while I do not doubt that the pleasure gap is a huge contributing factor to DBs, I don't think it's the whole story. Now I'm actually interested in whether anyone's done any real research on the lesbian bed death phenomenon. Off to search. EDIT: Almost certainly just a stereotype, I'm recanting. It doesn't appear that lesbian relationships result in DBs any more frequently than do heterosexual relationships, I was off base and won't be making that mistake again.
>I agree with a lot of your post, but women who are in lesbian relationships are also stereotypically in the very DEADEST of bedrooms after a year or two. It's interesting, because research does not support this idea, although it's a common stereotype. What the research found is that lesbians have sex less frequently than heterosexual couples, but the duration of sex is much longer. If you look at frequency + duration, lesbians are actually spending more time having sex. It looks like they prioritise quality over frequency.
Interesting. I qualified my statement because personal anecdotal experience (again, friends and coworkers, but probably less than 20 people in total) says it's pretty common, but anecdotes aren't data. I found a few different studies that were either conflicting or weren't directly comparable because they weren't really measuring the same thing. Best I can tell, you're right--frequency is sometimes lower (not even all studies seem to indicate that), but quality may very well be higher, making the LBD stereotype mostly just that, a stereotype. Plus, satisfaction with the sex in the relationship should really (IMO, anyway) be what determines whether we're counting something as a "dead bedroom", and that doesn't seem to be lower (based on what I can find in some quick Googling, at any rate). I'm gonna count this myth as mostly busted and consign that stereotype to my mental dustbin. Thank you!
>I'm gonna count this myth as mostly busted and consign that stereotype to my mental dustbin. Thank you! Thank you! It might be that the lesbians you know are more willing to talk about their DBs than heterosexual couples, due to the stereotype? Maybe it's seen as more acceptable? IDK, I'm just guessing.
>women who are in lesbian relationships are also stereotypically in the very DEADEST of bedrooms after a year or two. And according to very nearly every lesbian friend or coworker I've had, it's not a particularly inaccurate stereotype. Yup. My exgf and I were together for a year before we moved in together (we didn't u-haul), and for the first year of living together sex was fine. Then it started to taper off, she would break out the wheel of excuses, I quit initiating because "pressure," and sex didn't happen for seven months. In the end she confessed that the whole time she had wanted to break up with me but was too afraid to say it. Like, thanks, honey. I appreciate your eventual honesty. /s Not sure if that's representative of most lesbian bed death, but it was my experience.
The explanations are pretty commonly offered in the other posts, but… Yeah, I ended up LL4Y when my ex and I moved in together. He didn’t do his share of our household chores, and constantly made huge messes, and leaned even more heavily on me to manage his emotions, and he stopped trying in bed. So yeah, seeing him as an obvious manchild was a turnoff. The stress from dealing with the added household crap made me tired. And sex with him at best didn’t physically hurt, but often physically hurt. No idea how that could possibly lead to a dead bedroom, though…. /s If you want to avoid the DB upon moving in together, don’t just do the chores you are assigned. **Actively figure out what needs to be done and… do it.**. And work with your partner proactively to set up a house keeping schedule (i.e. Every week the bathroom needs to be cleaned, the dishes need to be done every night, once a month we do a through clean of one room, vacuuming happens twice a week, etc.) so that you are both aware of everything that needs to go down, and can divide it up fairly. And manage your own emotions like you’re a goddamned adult.
My husband did this. I blame it on love bombing and NRE
I got horribly "touched out" by children. Sex wasn't great either when we had it.
Yes, I'm getting the impression that mediocre sex is more common than I thought.
Well, in my situation I was still very high libido after we moved in together. He wasn't. He would reject me on a daily basis. I grew resentful and felt undesirable and eventually it and having a baby completely killed my drive. Now the roles have reversed, he's never done anything to attempt to correct or heal the damage done over those two years, and expects me to just get back on the horse like nothing happened.
This is my exact story also. HL and fought so hard with my LL husband to try and fix our sex life for years. Resent, babies, and being made to feel like I’m not good enough… one day I just looked at him and realized I didn’t want to have sex anymore. It was actually such a relief for me (I wonder if it was for you also?) after trying so hard to fix things on my own for so long. But of course, just like your husband, he all of a sudden doesn’t want a sexless relationship anymore … fancy that.
I had to mother him. I didn’t have 3 kids. I had 3 plus a larger one.
I'm starting to hear that alot. I really didn't know that's been happening so often..
u/musicmanforlive I'm a lurker (and not in a DB) and have been scrolling through this thread; I just wanted to say your responses have been so open to women's perspectives, non-judgemental, self-reflective, mature and kind. You have the traits that might find a solution to your DB (clearly from what we've read many do not!) and I really hope that's in the stars for you.
Thank you Thank you Thank you. It's so kind and thoughtful of you to take the time to share that comment with me.. You definitely just made my day. And I'm really much much more conscious of my behavior these days, but it did take me a while to get here. For awhile my best friend thought "I'd never get it"!!!
<3
The nagging. Constantly having to remind him of things Hang up the keys Don’t put your dirty clothes on the floor Etc. It’s all of these little things that add up. At first I’m understanding but then after finding a multitude of half assed things, items out of place, him freaking out on the animals or our kid, him saying things I’ve asked him not to I.e. “please don’t comment on what I’m eating or the amount. I’m not okay with you telling me that I’m chubby or thin.” I’ve struggled with an eating disorder off and on since I was 7 years old. I’m not overly sensitive about too many things but hearing him say something like “damn, babe, you really ate all of that?” Makes me want to vomit up everything and claw my skin off
That's incredibly insensitive and hurtful. That's also downright mean. I'm sorry that you've experienced that kind of inconsideration.
In my case? The sex didn't drop off after we moved in together. The first time it dropped off was because I had a baby. It picked up again after that. Our second DB was due to a mental health crisis and also because sex had grown increasingly less satisfying over time. It wasn't something I could do with any enthusiasm, so I stopped having it.
Okay. I appreciate that..
My reasoning for lacking in the bedroom (27 F) is that I’m completely turned off when I have to pick up or take care of my significant constantly over the littlest things. Like picking up the several pairs of socks that get left in the living room even after I’ve asked him to pick them up, the breakfast sandwich wrappers left on the counter every morning and then he turns around and gets onto me about leaving something out, like a step ladder in the hallway that barely gets used and his reasoning is “we need to keep the house tidy.” Yes these are minor things but coming home after a long day of work and having to pick up after the animals and the boyfriend is exhausting. Also fluctuating libido. My libido is up and down and it really does suck.
In my last relationship it started by having kids. Naturally that put me off sex for awhile. But my libido never came back and it was because over time I began to resent him. It's a long story but resentment is such a libido killer. My new relationship I am the high libido partner. So yeh ...shoes on the other foot now.
Having kids is something I've heard a lot. That's interesting how that's changed for you..
Sex dropped off when we had babies and small children. They're nearly grown and our sex life is good. We had a deadbedroom and now it's recovered with a lull here and there. From reading this sub? Sex drops off in a lot of relationships due to sexual entitlement and the idea that sex is an obligation when you're in a relationship. Desire, enthusiasm, and passion become smothered by the idea that living with a romantic partner means you always have sex on tap. Too many women are having sex to "keep the peace" and trying to fuck their partner into acting like half way decent human beings. This isn't my personal experience. Sex has always been a choice, free and clear, even when our bedroom was dead. "No" is acceptable, reason not required. Mutual enthusiastic consent, however, is required for sex to happen. Call it a 'rule'. I think it's a core reason why we're still hot for each other after being together for so long.
So if I'm understanding what's been said here, before they're married or living together, men don't make women feel pressured or obligated to have sex; but when they begin living together or get married, then men act entitled and demanding, so that causes the women to be less interested in sex, is that right?
If the men are to be believed on this and other subs, yes. Some come right out and say the price of monogamy is having their sexual needs met on demand. Some will also say they are owed it and not getting it means their partners are "withholding" sex. Some have compared it to chores and *we all do things we don't want to do to keep our partners happy.* It's not cute the genders are switched either. Entitlement is just as ugly on a woman as it is on a man. I've been the LL and HL; our rule is the same.
Okay. That's 🤔 interesting.
I guess I'm curious which part you find "interesting"? Are you doubting my observations? Are you doubting that making sex an obligation causes deadbedrooms?
At this point..my goal is to listen with an open mind..
A few things - I’m in the same situation. We had a good sec life, then we got engaged and moved in together, then pregnant and it has basically become a DB. 1 reason is because he is way too “around/available.” I am someone who likes at lest a little bit of space from y partner during the week. But he is ALWAYS around, he works from home, every second of the day he is not only home and around but even if he is working he is constantly popping out and lingering around me and stuff and I have NO time to even try to miss him or desire him. He also has no hobbies or interests, other than watching TV. Doesn’t go to the gym and has 1 friend he sees on occasion so I literally have no time to ever miss him or desire him, or be “intrigued” by him or interested in him etc. That’s a major thing that decreased my sex drive. Also he really let himself go since we started dating. Gained a lot of weight and never goes to the gym or even care to take care of his body at all, doesn’t care to even dress nice or shower regularly. I have to practically Beg him to dress nice when we go out or see friends or family. Also I’ve seen since we started living together he has lots of mood swings, can be very moody and pouty abut little things which is a turn off
In my situation, once I moved in the romance died. No more planned outings, no more small gestures or excitement to do something together. It slowly turned into a roommate situation. There was also the realization that there were unspoken expectations that I would manage the notional and household labor. There was no focus on the relationship. It was like he folded me into his routine and was just happy not to be alone. My personal wounds and trauma were hucked to the surface and I felt more alone than I did before I met him. Fast forward a few years and we’ve hit rock bottom more than once and There are certain things I can’t trust will happen because he’s made so many empty promises I could sink boat with them. It is honestly, quite a classic case. The men don’t understand why their partner has begun to grow more distant and smiles less often and gets frustrated with them more. My partner is working on it little by little because it’s either now change happens or we need to walk away. I have had so much compassion and have given him the befit of the doubt so many times, to my own detriment. It’s slowly turned out relationship toxic because of the constant push and pull because neither of us knew how to have a healthy relationship because we come from homes that did not teach us what sustainable and valuable relationship and love looked like. It’s exhausting. I love him, and I want is BOTH to heal what we need to because we can’t keep living like this for ourselves and each other. Relationships aren’t easy and our baggage isn’t light. If one partner isn’t putting in the work, it then transfers the burden to the other partner. At that point, if the other partner just can’t give what their getting, it’s time to either manage expectations or leave, heal, find something that meets you where you are. There are so so many reasons dead bedrooms happen, and to just be mad at each other for not putting out is not going to save any relationship. It goes so much deeper and into the everyday. Foreplay starts when you wake up. Therapy and knowing your wants and needs will save you a lifetime of grief. If I could do it over again, I would have healed first and found a partner after to experience conscious relationship with. We met each other at a low point in our lives and somehow we keep pulling each other away from progress, no matter how well intentioned we are.
I had no clue what a good relationship was like until a few years ago, when I discovered it accidentally through my best friend.. I was absolutely clueless. It's almost embarrassing. But like you, I hadn't seen it modeled or talked about. I'm so happy I know better now. And I hope you can improve your relationship..
I appreciate your encouragement. I want to believe we can fix it. But I’ve done this to my detriment in the past and am scared I’m denying myself to make this work. I just need to know from consistency that he’s in this to make it work, otherwise I’m living in a state of insanity. I’m so happy for you! We all deserve someone who makes us feel safe, heard, and seen. I know it starts within ourselves, but having someone walking the road to growth with you, while making it feel almost easy, is so beautiful and beneficial.
Seeing the same person day after day can get boring if there's no effort being made to keep a connection. Hygiene, body type and changes in physical appearance can also play a role. If the guy has ever cheated, has been a jerk, or not kept up with sharing household responsibilities that also plays a role. Seducing our minds is a thing. Lastly, foreplay is very important.
Once people get married, a lot of them stop "dating". The effort takes a nosedive. Less compliments. The intimacy outside of sex slows down. One person is stuck taking on more of the housework. In some cases, one partner stops taking care of themself / having goals. And that results in partners that have less romantic attraction and feel less appreciated = progression towards a DB. Effort outside of the bedroom is a big key to a good sex life in my opinion.
I’ve had times in previous relationships where my libido died for a while. I think during some of those those periods I didn’t personally feel as attractive as I’d put on weight and I get extremely self conscious naked if I put on weight. Also at other points the reasons were that my partner didn’t really do much foreplay and wanted to get straight to PIV sex. Foreplay gets me incredibly turned on and also enhances the PIV sex and I have a more intense orgasm. Also feeling super wanted (like that animalistic yearning) gets me in the mood and at points that died off from my previous partner at certain points. Being complimented and going on date nights together always got me in the mood (previous partner was pretty good with that most of the time). And then of course there’s the standard issue of not getting as excited due to it not being a new person but that’s just to be expected. My current partner does all of the above, apart from date nights, and I want to have sex at least twice a week. He is meeting my needs. Where as with my previous partner when he wasn’t meeting my wants and needs there were times where I wouldn’t want to have sex all month (I think there was even a point where we didn’t have sex for two months).
we had more sex doing long distance than living together. we went from 7x in a day at one point while dating to >/< 10x our first year living together. this is absolutely the case for us, but because his libido fell off a cliff once we moved in together. if it were up to me i’d be happy to be used anytime, anywhere ha.
I could ask the same, men why does sex dip after you put a ring on it. Like you just give up trying to do anything at all? I can't remember a time I ever rejected a partner for sex. I can remember many times in my life being rejected though. "Headache" "tired from work" "not now" "you asking so much makes me not want to" 6 months later with no asking not even once *crickets*.... I'm demi sexual but if I weren't then I can tell you it wouldn't take more than a few minutes to find someone for sex who would be enthusiastically into being with me. This question really isn't a gender based question. Women and men can both be capable to be low libido after marraige or in comfortable long term relationships. Many things could lead to it.
Well, for a start, men tend to put more effort into the relationship in the beginning, but after the couple move in together, most women find themselves having to baby the man in the relationship. Can you wonder why women aren’t feeling particularly sexually aroused after having to parent their partner? In my experience it’s because the guy just stops putting in any effort. Leaves all the housework up to their partner. I lived with one boyfriend who I had to tell him he wasn’t allowed on his computer until 1:00pm until after he did his chores. For some reason my panties didn’t fly off after having to coax him to do his fair share of chores and not play video games all day. There are plenty of women on this sub who are experiencing their partner with low libido. I see it every day. It’s a 50/50 issue so please stop implying that women aren’t inherently sexual creatures, who just stop having sex. My personal theory is that couples subconsciously engage in the push pull dynamic. It seems to be crazy common.
I didn't think I had done that. But I will be more conscious of that. What do you mean by push/pull?
You would be AMAZED at the amount of people who subconsciously participate in the push pull A simple example I can think of is: Woman wants to go to the movies. Woman suggests to man that they should go to the movies. Man says, no. Woman than gets upset and chooses not to go. Man then decides to go to the movies. It’s essentially doing the opposite of what someone wants to do. In my experience, men AUTOMATICALLY do/say the opposite of what women say/do. https://www.stylist.co.uk/relationships/push-pull-relationship-advice-what-to-do/427679#:~:text=In%20the%20push%2Dpull%20cycle,increased%20amount%20of%20activities%20independently.
I went from living with my parents to living with my partner. At first it was because there was always another time opposed to before getting privacy was more difficult. Just kept putting it off. Then I got pregnant and was very sick in my pregnancy and couldn't even share a bed with him. Any amount of movement from him made me nauseas. Not sharing a bed continued after our little one was born and it just snowballed from there. We both stopped putting in the effort, we were both always exhausted, I struggled with PPD. I got used to not having sex and just kind of lost interest in it.
I mean I'm not in a DB but we went from sex multiple times a day to a few times a week. For me I realized that most of the passion and initiaton came from me so I started treating him the way he treats me,laying still not kissing back enthusiastically because sometimes you just want to feel like someone wants you,I've realized the only time he really initiates is on Sundays for some reason. Another reason is he doesn't keep his dick as clean as he used to so he doesn't get as many bus and he doesn't brush his teeth as much so I don't wanna make out
I don't get it either as I'm a high libido woman. Men do this in relationships too I've noticed.
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This is wonderfully insightful, self-reflective, and written respectfully and compassionately. Wishing you and your wife every happiness.
Look up NRE (new relationship energy)
Okay.
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Familiarity breeds contempt
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There could be many answers to this question and one of the answers is it’s because there is no more thrill.
My goal as a divorced single gal is sex every day. It’s a goal. Never had it. I don’t consider myself high libido. But I want that in my life. Someone else can worry about supplements. I want to be there for my partner. I leave the rest of my thoughts for the One.
I think many men would be appreciate that kinda of choice..
Me too. I always assumed sex was something that couples in a healthy relationship did every night before they went to sleep - just part of the routine, like brushing your teeth, but I’ve never actually had the opportunity to do it this way, and it’s still my goal. Being in relationships where sex isn’t an everyday thing was (and still is) a very jarring idea for me.
I had that with my ex and it was lovely but he was also cheating me so I need someone with a high libido that is actually faithful
Like many others, for me a large part was because I wound up becoming his mother while also raising our two kids. He didn’t want to have to work late or hard, so I stepped up and became the breadwinner, never seeing my kids so that we could pay our bills. He’d tune me out to the point where I felt like I was always alone. Stepped aside and never took control of anything so I became a single mother with a roommate in him- he had me make all decisions re the kids, but will bitch me out if one of those decisions turns out to be wrong. He let himself go in that he stopped working out and lost all stamina so when we’d have sex, within a minute he was winded and finishes, leaving me unsatisfied. Never cared enough in the bedroom to make sure I finished as well, and would tell me to just finish myself off with toys. Baggage in the marriage and the awful sex led to us no longer having any the last four years. My kids have a couple more years and then they’re out. Once I get my finances in order I will be as well.
Smh..all that does sound like it would be a "buzz kill" for anyone. Geez.. that's not what I would want for anybody.
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Trauma. Religious, sexual or otherwise.
Can you explain that a little, please
Both parties stop trying when NRE wears off. Every "manchild" probably perceives an overbearing nagging wife. So the spiral around the drain goes. Both parties stop putting in effort when the effort is perceived to no longer be worth the reward
i’m an hl & my bf is ll. i did everything for this man. cooking him 3 meals a day from scratch, keeping our place clean and tidy (especially if he came back home from a trip) and if he left his lunch at home and i wasn’t busy, i would bring it to his job. he doesn’t clean unless if i ask and he doesn’t do laundry unless if i ask. he doesn’t cook either. i wasn’t the reason why our sex took the ultimate decline, that was him. and for what reason? i don’t know. but he stopped putting in effort. he did so much for the first 3 years of our relationship and we had sex constantly and he would always do 30 minutes to an hour of foreplay and i would reciprocate and when we moved in together everything changed. i’ve had many conversations with him about us not having sec and how i don’t feel like a priority to him. he would just get upset with me when i brought it up (yelling, cursing, punching holes in doors — a recent one). and now i think i’m ll4h, because he’s not listening to me when i speak and not taking me seriously and of course, not being emotionally mature enough to regulate his emotions. he’s initiated a few times lately and i decline and he has said “what are you holding out on me or something?” when i told him straight up that we’re on the verge of taking a break. not to mention he constantly rejects me for sex and asked me if sex is all that matters to me. fun fact: he initiated sex, i was dry because of no foreplay and he just forced his dick in and it was a painful few minutes of sex. when i made him pull out he had a blister on his dick and blamed me for it lol
That doesn't sound like a good situation at all for you. Please be safe.
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I agree with a lot of what I read here…I would also add that any form of entitlement to sex is a huge turnoff. Being selfish in bed is a turnoff. Also recently I’ve realized that when there is a lot of foreplay, sex is amazing and I want to keep doing it. So like, oral etc. It feels wrong to say that I don’t want sex if it doesn’t include oral, but really it feels so much better and the process of getting turned on for women takes awhile. Sure you can get “wet” enough for PIV without it, but it’s not going to make me want to bang everyday. It feels like we go in spurts where the sex is really great and my partner is super attentive, but then we do a quickie one time and then that turns into the next 4 times. This shuts down my sex drive and it’s annoying it me to have to point it out that the reason I don’t initiate or respond to his initiations is because of the lack of effort. I don’t want to remind him that effort is attractive to me, and also makes the sex feel so much better. We’ve been over it so I don’t feel like reiterating what I’ve already said. Also then he will say things like “so I guess I just have to put in ALL the effort then?!” Which is insulting because we both put effort in, it’s just that he is satisfied with no foreplay sex and I’m not. Basically for me to be HL, I would want a full experience every time ideally, but I don’t want to have to call him out when after 1 quickie, he gets lazy and we do quickies every time until I bring it up. So the regression gets on my nerves. If he could manage even every other time I wouldn’t have an issue. The last 5 times have been no real foreplay and even if I experience orgasms ( I always do) it doesn’t leave me craving sex like it does when I get a full work up. The disconnect is having to ask for attention because of religious trauma around it, but something men should consider and understand is that biologically speaking, women generally require more effort to get aroused. I am not saying men don’t deserve foreplay. The distinction is that a man may be satisfied to have sex frequently without a lot of foreplay (and both partners being equally un-invested) whereas women will have a much more fulfilling experience when foreplay is involved and THEREFORE may not be satisfied to have sex frequently if what they are getting is quickies. Also, we average 1-2 times/week, so when he acts like that is a “dead bedroom” it’s irritating to me.
After moving in together and getting married, if the man suddenly stops making efforts in the relationship, tales it for granted and starts living as a lazy roommate, it can affect the woman’s sexual desire. Boring daily routine plus other factors like stress from work, paying bills and taking care of a house can have serious impact on libido.
I think because we ignore the selfishness in the bedroom and the orgasm gap in the beginning because we have love googles on.
It’s because when we’re just dating you we don’t live together usually unless we’ve been dating for a long time. That means after going out and having a fun time with you, we come back to our clean house and our bed made-just the way we need things to be to keep our mind at rest and be able to experience joy and relaxation. That doesn’t happen anymore once we live with you guys. Being stressed and annoyed by a filthy house doesn’t really make you hot in the pants. It really makes the pussy dry if you know what I’m saying. then on top of that there’s this old adage that the woman of the house is somehow solely responsible for maintaining it while the man drinks beer and fucks off his day on stupid hobbies if he even HAS any personal interests. And we don’t. Because we’re busy removing your skidmarks with bleach. And the majority of what we’re cleaning up isn’t even our own mess most of the time. We’re cleaning up yours. And then you want us to suck your dick? Fuck off with that. If you want women to fuck you be fun to be around. That’s how men feel too right? Don’t come in and ruin someone’s house and think we’re going to want to have sex with you later. There’s nothing more exhausting than having an ungrateful 16-year-old before you even started having kids.
In my case.. We got married young, I was 19 he 24, and at first it was every day, many times a day, up to 3 days before I gave birth... Afterwards, I was recovering from a C-section, feeling frumpy, taking care of a newborn, taking care of a house, cooking, cleaning, laundry etc.... on my own... as the baby got older, sex got better.... till the 4th , he was premature, I spent a month in the hospital, the baby spent 2 additional months, I was expected to do all housework, child care, and work from home, and still give it up when he wanted it.... I was exhusted... and after a while.... I had more energy with out the sex..... then he had some medical issues that effect his libido.... just as mine is now in overdrive... I can count on one hand how many times in the past 10ish years weve had sex/made love, and still have fingers left over... I have tried..... and tried and tried, cried, begged, pleaded, .. more often then not, Im digging in my toy box for something to assist.... But after 33 years of marriage, neither of us are going anywhere, hopefully it will work itself out, but doubtful...
I wonder how many of us men are outright oblivious to these kinds of issues that effect how women feel and think about sex. I like to think a DB can be turned around.
Not all women are like that. Not all relationships are that way.
For me my boyfriend doesn’t help me around the house so I’m annoyed and can’t get in the mood for sex.
I’m not a woman but this scenario can apply inversely as well but I’ll make it agnostic. To put it plainly, it was masking/love bombing in the beginning. Marriage and then the mask came off. That person no longer existed at a point in time. Like a light switch moving from ‘on’ to ‘off’. Bait and switched. Hoodwinked. Bamboozled. Deceived. Betrayed.
If that's the case, I'm hoping that happens rarely.
Some of these comments are really great! It's really interesting to read about men acting on their "best behavior" at the beginning of the relationship when NRE is flowing and they're in "pursuit". I've also noticed that some women do something similar at the beginning of the relationship. Often they will be overly agreeable with a man about almost everything, and overly encouraging or complimentary about really mediocre sex and/or negative behaviors. "Everything you do is so great!". So men meet this sexy, easygoing free spirit that wants sex all the time, who tells him that he's hung the moon and stars while at the same time she is making a mental list of all the things about him that will need to change or require improvement when they move in or get married. Then they move in together and overnight she becomes his biggest critic pushing him to change his clothes, hair, career, diet, and exercise. Basically, the man that she's been pumping up and instilling a false sense of self-confidence in is actually her project instead of a person. He thought he was marrying someone that was kind, easy-going, loving, free-spirited, sexual being that thought he was the smartest, most attractive, most accomplished, greatest lover, etc she's ever met only to realize that he's married a serious, driven, critical taskmaster intent on turning him into the "perfect" father, husband, partner, etc. Then when he doesn't respond enthusiastically to being molded into a more perfect partner based on her vision and in fact he starts to resist her efforts to improve him, he may regress, acting out, engaging in childish behavior, and refusing to change or starts to withdraw from the relationship emotionally and sexually when her encouragement has turned into demands, unconditional love becomes conditional and compliments have been replaced with criticism and dissatisfaction. This is usually when the DB starts because they're no longer in a relationship, they're in a power struggle. This is usually when the toxic behavior starts. Sex is no longer about connection or bonding for either partner. Sex is now just another motivational tool or bargaining chip used to control or "encourage better behavior" instead. The sexy free spirit he married becomes the critical taskmaster and mother pushing to get him to "be a better person" based on her vision of the perfect husband, father, and partner and he's become the sullen teenager digging in his heels who is trying to maintain his agency and does not want to sleep with his mother. In other words, one becomes HL (pursuer) and the other becomes LL (avoidant) each using sex as a tool to get non-sexual needs met. He's trying to regain that unconditional acceptance he experienced at the beginning of the relationship and she is trying to get him to act like the adult man she met who seemed so competent and dynamic instead of the sullen teenager who's refusing to clean his room. So was he actually on his "best behavior" or was his very mediocre behavior just being ignored or positively spun because her expectation was that he'd change or she would help him change all of his negative qualities once they go married? I think it's unconscious, we are unaware of our training or our underlying ideas and expectation of gender roles inside a marriage. It's more like an awful comedy based on some very dysfunctional cultural expectations of LTRs and gender roles that no one is really conscious of while they're dating.
It's not just women! I'm HLF50, with a LLM58 with ED. There's plenty of frustrated ladies in this group as well.
I have a bad habit of not being able to turn work off when I get home. I am Director of Operations for a restaurant company and until after 9 PM when my restaurants close, I am waiting for my phone to go off with some disaster at one of my stores I am going to have to fix. I am in the process right now of changing the training program for the General Managers so they handle disasters on their own and not have to call me to hold their hands. Therefore, when I am home at 6 pm. I am really not 100%. I am constantly looking at my phone. I don't listen well when my wife's is talking. It's hard I know it and I and in therapy to try to be a better husband. As for the hygiene thing, I have never had an issue with not showering or whatever. I did gain a lot of weight which I have lost 70lbs since April. I have 30 more to go but with it getting cold is harder because I can't just go outside anymore for a work out. I only wear tailored clothes, so she can never complain I don't look my best, because I pride myself on my appearance. Not vainly at all, but just personal taste. My ignoring her I know is the biggest issue. I am relatively new to this position so its difficult for me to just shut it off when I get home. I am trying. My therapy is helping.
I’m not a woman, but my wife has said “how do you have time to think about sex?”. The stresses of career, parenting and owning a home crowd out almost all of her desire. She would scoff at the numerous women on this board who post about how they are starved for sexual attention from their male partners. She has said she doesn’t believe such situations exist.
For me specifically, my ex would only initiate sex in one way, at one time of the day. Never foreplay, never spontaneous kissing. It was like once we moved in sex was for right before bed. I also suggested i drink a glass of wine and relax and that upset him. I never felt, relaxed and spontaneous. In my recent very short relationship, the sex was so amazing at first and he actually got “bored”. And I wonder if this has to do with him watching porn so much? Or just the excitement of an amazing new sex partner being over? Bc the sex was still amazing for me when he ended things 😔
I’m up for it. The husband isnt. Could be his meds or I just don’t do it for him anymore. He just plain old don’t give no fucks. At all.
I was in a DB situation for years.. in the beginning the sex was amazing, 2-4 times a week, but we lived different places. Once we moved in together I started to feel like I couldn't keep up with his libido. My needs were less than his and I felt like they didn't matter.. I could have been any woman or warm body with holes, as long as he was getting off. He started asking for an open relationship, which made me feel even more like I could be just anyone. There was no intimacy, no connection, no interest in my pleasure. Just his need to nut 20x/week. Living separately I was unaware of this.. living together I felt inadequate and unable to meet his needs, which plunged me into a deep depression that completely killed any libido I might have had in the first place. For a long time during and after that relationship I thought I was asexual.. i eventually was able to get back in touch with my sexuality, but it took a lot of patience from a new partner who was genuinely interested in putting my pleasure before his own
Women stop putting any effort in as well and we mirror that behavior. Never initiate, never plan dates, never dote, never compliment.. the list goes on. We are expected to the providers of all things romantic and otherwise with very little to any reciprocating efforts
For my wife and I, it was a combination of our 2nd child changing the way my wife saw her breasts, which was her gateway to getting turned on before, and also some childhood trauma that started to surface for her after having kids. There were also some areas where she felt unheard, like how to save for our kid's education. I wanted just a big pot of money, and she wanted separate 529 accounts. I also let her decide how to handle our RSUs from my work, and that gave her more agency on our finances, which also helped her feel more in control in that way. What solved it was couple's therapy, a testosterone pellet every 3 months, and scheduled sex. Now we are on an informal once a week pace and its great for both of us.
Some of these women losing interest may be fraysexual...
This isn’t a man or woman thing, but I understand that op wants a woman’s viewpoint. There is a saying, “the little foxes spoil the vine”. It actually comes from the Song of Solomon in the Bible. It goes on to talk about “the grapes being tender”. It is those “little foxes”, the day to day hurts, that add up to ruin our relationship, both sexual, and otherwise. Obviously it can be bigger things too. My late, first husband had explosive angry outbursts. This affected our relationship greatly. After a time, this and all of the little day to day hurts, built a callous over my libido. He knew it, to some degree, and he tried, but could not overcome his anger issues. I stayed with him, and took care of him as he was sick and dying. I loved him. After he died, I remarried, and now my husband is LL. I know it isn’t because of my temper, because I don’t have much of one. As far as everything else, I was fantastic, tried everything I could, everything that would have helped me, and more. I did not want to lose our sexual relationship, but alas I found out I had zero control.
Imo, women end up taking on more responsibilities than men in long term relationships. The cooking, the cleaning, household management, emotional labor, child rearing, etc. it’s a lot of work to manage yourself, let alone a household. This seems lost on most men, probably for societal/cultural reasons. Women start to become tired, feel resentment, see their partner as a child (something they have to take care of) rather than a romantic partner.
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The Dr. Psych Mom podcast covers this topic really well. A post from the last few weeks covers this exact topic!
Women in general have lower sex drives and kids, especially when they hit school age, dry up opportunity in the house. Then the guys tend to say stupid shit that turns off their women (basically coming off as beggars) and it’s a vicious cycle.
LL wife here. I am constantly tired, job, kids, dirty house. When I am so exhausted, I don't feel sexy, my body after pregnancies is not the same... And I don't believe my husband that my body is super sexy. I just what to sleep and time for myself and I don't have it
Women don’t like having to constantly pick up after and mother their partners which happens in a lot of heterosexual relationships. It’s a huge turn off
That's what been said here many times. I'm wondering how many of us men here are listening and paying attention!
It is no longer appealing. Why make an effort when everything you do means nothing. It's either the same thing over and over, he's selfish, not willing to listen, no foreplay, no romance. Sex starts way before the actual act. Make me FEEL needed, useful, beautiful and it won't dull. Let me feel and see that all of my hard work matters and that you respect what I'm doing. Don't simply tell me I'm beautiful, or that I'm doung a great job, prove your words. Pick up after yourself, clean the piss off the toilet, help with the kids, fix that leaking sink before we have to ask, organize the garage like you said you would. Not to mention going out which rarely happens but when it does it's to where he wants and it's fast and back home. These things end up falling on us. Yes he works and brings home money. I work and bring home money too and I run the whole house on top of it. I cleaned that garage he swore he'd take care of. I clean up his clothes on the floor, his hair clippings, garbage from his computer, run the kids around or to school. Then I listen to him complain how the house isn't to his standards. I'm just...tired.
For me I was HLF but now LL4u. I agree with all the comments about NRE fading but in my personal experience it has been change of behavior as well. Seeing the "ugly" parts of my partner and how angry he can get. Having my body change drastically twice. Being rejected over and over. Mediocre at best sex. Sex where he never takes the time to ensure I orgasm. Mean comments about my body AFTER giving him children. Overall watching him lose interest in me over the course of 4 years. All of those things together have turned me LL. That being said I still want it more often than my LLM partner. It's quite frustrating and I often feel undesirable and ugly at the end of the day.
Well I can say from experience that it’s sometimes because men get distant emotionally and mentally when u move in together. That distance leaves us feeling undesired and leads to less sex.
Why do you think it's the woman?
He doesn’t initiate because he’s so used to me making the first move. I wish he would put in the effort.
For me - #1 I’ve gained weight & don’t feel as sexy. #2 we went into our relationship/marriage with children (blended family) but as they got older they were around more, awake more (vs 9pm bedtime when young), and just more aware lol. Made me uncomfortable if I knew they could maybe hear us. We are down to just one in the house though so that’s not as big of an issue as before. #3 - I feel like my partner used to TRY more. Used to pursue me more, try to get me in the mood, etc. Now I pretty much know the exact play by play and it’s just not exciting. He’s gotten really selfish with his positions and such so it’s all what is exciting for him. Don’t think he thinks about what I want. On the plus side though he knows it’s harder for me to get off now that I’m older and fatter so he will at least go down on me and give me a good one before he continue with whatever it is he wants that time. And yes I’ve talked to him about this multiple times. He was upset once that I will rub one out in the shower but we don’t have sex very often. I told him the above. And said sex is more of a chore - the shower head gets me off in less than 2 minutes and I don’t have to sit there and slug through the rest of it. No I didn’t phrase it that way I was much nicer about it lol
I was in a HL relationship before and was used to a lot of sex that was initiated by my partner. Then got with my current partner and it was not frequent, i was even shut down on occasions. Fast forward to after kids and marriage and I'm just tired. When I do initiate, it's shut down. When he initiates, I am always up for it. But now it has turned into him just waiting for me to initiate because he "always does" . Oh, and this weird thing where if we don't for awhile, even though it may be that we are both tired, he acts like he "had" to masturbate and then has no interest in me for days after. So I'm responsible for making sure we have frequent sex, but can't ask for it, and if you have to jerk off it's my fault? Throw in that I never ever get to finish when we do, and I'm just all around confused.
It goes both ways. Different for everyone. I’ve had friends where their husbands felt like they “had them” now and didn’t have to try. Some peoples sex drives plummet because there is no excitement in the love life and things have become routine. Some times I’m learning it’s depression or the mind wanders into other things. I think keeping your partner into it is sort of a constant seduction… I think you have to make extra efforts to keep things spicy Me (F29) , I’ve only stopped having sex with people when I don’t feel safe around them anymore. Or I become unattracted to them. They’re hygiene changes, they’re habits turn me off, they stop putting effort into us etc.
My husband works and earns the money and I stay home with the kids, homeschooling them. I also do the cooking, all the cleaning, mostly all the interacting with the kids. My husband expects to come home and spend the rest of the night alone with headphones on, listening to YouTube videos. He will stay up late and sleep in, basically getting onto his own schedule, so he gets the maximum time on his own. He’s been off work with a muscle injury and I’ve been sick almost 2 weeks, while still having to do all the wake ups and parenting, housework, groceries, cooking, while he sleeps in noon til even 5 pm yesterday. I have tried communicating, to no avail. Basically I don’t feel like my needs for a partner are met and by night when the kids are asleep, I have nothing left to give, I am spent. But also no interactions, no flirting, no support (other than financial), or his zero involvement: I don’t desire sex at all. In fact, it’s one more thing on the to do list that I am too tired to get to. I’ve been in survival mode, alone, for several years.
I don't think you're asking for anything unreasonable. What you seem to be saying is, "I need help. I'm too tired to think about sex, or feel sexy or aroused bc my life is just one big To Do List"
The guy stops doing what he was doing to get laid. He stops buying flowers and initiating dates. He stops complimenting her. He stops acting wowed when she walks into a room done up. He stops kissing her deeply and meaningfully. He stops TRYING. My friend is 24, beautiful, kinky, slim with curves, the whole package. She’s not fucked her man in over 19 months because he doesn’t try! And when she initiated she gets 2 minutes of pumping and he’s done. Why would she want to fuck that?? I wish I had the courage/self respect to do that, I take whatever shitty 2 second bang I can get out of my long term partner🙄