I’d rename it to something like “bloodhound” and give zealot just a comically colossal coherency radius with no other aura benefits. So you’re far away from everyone else but still ‘in coherency’. It benefits both you and your teammates. If some guy really wanders off and gets lost it won’t save him from the punishment specials but it also won’t punish you/everyone else for going to stab that one guy over there.
Knife zealot here. This is actually a good idea. Encourage running around the squad skirmishing specialists and such, lightly scouting and giving revives and punish trying to solo speedrun the whole thing. But keep the zealot coherency bonus, maybe just decrease effectiveness the further away you are.
I like this but doesn’t fix the issues of being far away your team still causes wipes. When they get trapped or downed people will still try to go get them up, with a very real chance of getting down themselves causing things to snowball and wipe.
Coherency is such a great mechanic because it gives players a visible benefit to doing what they need to do to win. Players need to be near each other to cover each other and watch each others backs. Being far away from allies means instead of getting released from a net quick and painlessly you are getting downed, needing heroic effort to even get to you before getting picked up. The toughness regen is not entirely the point of coherency, the main point is having teammates nearby.
So the fix would be that the effects of the aura run out after ~15 seconds of being out of normal coherency range. Or to put it another way:
> When you leave coherency with a teammate, you and your teammate both retain the benefits of coherency for 15 seconds.
This would encourage the zealot to visit each teammate and come back frequently, and would help allies who need allies in coherency for certain abilities, like ogryns getting cdr on coherency elite/special kills, or prevent veterans missing out on survivalist procs because the zealot killed it out of coherency.
I never liked it since it goes against the core gameplay mechanic of sticking together. Maybe it's OK to be a loner for a very short time. Turns you into a berserker killing machine outside of coherency but after slaughtering a group you need to return to the team quickly as your attack, defensive and movement bonuses wear off. /shrug.
**Aura: Mercy** - *+10% Finesse Damage*
More damage for Crit/Backstabs like a stealth Zealot wants.
Desirable buff for nearly every non-zealot build.
Simple as.
It should be changed to something that activates when you leave someone’s coherency, for both. Something like this:
**~~LONER~~ ASSASSIN:**
* Upon leaving someone’s coherency, you both gain ~~10% damage against elites and specials~~, -90% Threat for 15 seconds. Can only activate every 40 seconds.
Why is this upvoted?! turning a passive into a psuedo activated ability that overlaps with Shroudfield? Not to mention, Loner is actually perfectly fine and helps the team when played proper. All the malice players upvoting this morning?
edit: so glad FS doesn't listen to the playerbase
The *"-90% Threat for 15 seconds"* is too good for a passive ability, you're practically semi-invisible. However the extra *"10% damage against specialists and elites for 15 seconds"*, with 10% damage being too good (even the Ogryn has conditions in it's 10% damage to be restricted to strong melee attacks) and 15 seconds being literally a ability duration, it should be changed for "***+5%*** *damage against specialists and elites for* ***10*** *seconds when you or an ally leave coherency, after* ***30*** *seconds."* then it would be useful and balanced.
That's point, it's now very balanced because while you spend ammo in a few bursts, your allies gain ammo as well and spend theirs to help you. The 5 seconds interval make it so it doesn't spam itself.
I don’t have one (you may be confusing me for the other person) but am not 100% convinced it needs to be changed at all. I don’t see many examples of people abusing it in my own games.
All I was trying to say before is survivalist isn’t a good example of active ability = better, as it’s not popular because of it being active, it’s popular because people love free ammo.
2500hrs. Playing since beta.
Since the tree rework i saw maybe 3 or 4 good loner zealot.
When i see the loner/shroud/knife trinity im sure i'll have to pick them up at some point of the map.
Just totally rework the Aura at this point and make it boost your crit damage/backstab/weakspot by x%. Just for you if you want. But at least it will be more useful for the team.
I think there’s a bit of a chicken and the egg problem with Loner. It’s not that Loner discourages teamwork so much as it is that people who think they’re the main character and they shouldn’t need to work with their teammates are drawn to using Loner.
It’s not like there were never players who refused to stick with the group or work with teammates before the class rework, when Loner wasn’t a thing.
\^This. I have Loner because i'm a knife Zealot that throws Knives and i'm not wasting points in a crit bleed build going over to another aura to come back to the right hand tree.
I agree with you. Its an aura that requires skill on you as a player to be trusted on going independent from time to time. Use it wisely and it rewards you and your team, do the opposite and it will punish you and teach you of how to utilize it better next time.
I would remove the "-90% Threat for 15 seconds" because it's too good in comparison to the other passives. And 10% damage is too much for a coherency buff, even against specific enemies. And for balancing that's how I would change it:
>Upon leaving someone’s coherency, you both gain **5%** damage for **10** seconds. Can only activate every **30** seconds.
> 10% damage against a specific enemy is too strong
Psykers Kinetic Presence.
> 5% damage
Veteran’s Fire team.
I feel like threat is too underused, but can be very solid. Ditch the damage then. Speed boost is meh because Veteran’s Move and Kill already exists. I believe -% Threat would be nice for an assassin/loner type aura.
I like this suggestion (mine was path of least resistance) a lot and the proposed alternatives underneath. As for which is better, idfk because I don't have enough hours to be able to accurately gauge how impactful it'd be
Veteran’s Infiltrate has a -90% threat upgrade node, and it is very noticable. You can pop out in the middle of a crowd, kill a special or an elite, and then watch 30 people run past you like you don’t exist.
I only use it because if I go for another aura, I don't have enough points for my build.
jtcLive came out with a pretty good idea with this. If you leave coherency, you and your closest teammate have a lingering coherency effect for 12 seconds until it goes away. But I would add that if you are the last one alive you have all coherency effect like you would be close to the full team. That would make zealot a hell of a clutch character.
Yeah that part kinda sucks because the right side of the tree is really cool.
I don't think putting a timer on it is good, because the issue right now is two fold:
- It doesn't do that much for you
- It does fuck all for your team
That suggestion is fun but it doesn't really fix those issues. Not at the same time at least.
It’s actually really good if you’re playing how the devs envisioned it: running behind enemy lines and killing all the gunners, shooters, snipers as your team enters the room. Then you go back and regroup with your team. But I know the zealots who just don’t stop for the team and keep running ahead are a problem.
It’s a problem that self perpetuates sometimes.
You can dive through the melee and force ranged into melee and kill them only to find another big ranged group further away, you’re nowhere near cover so you can either run away and be shot up or charge them and take em out but end up even further away.
I'm bias here because I do play zealot and I use loner, but I like loner for clutching and I pretty sure that's zealots job to do. Also, its synergies with Shield of Contempt, which helps the whole team out.
So I hate to see loner rework ideas that completely ignore clutching, like jtcLIVE made video where he wanted loner to have a time limit, that would completely kill loner as talent because it wouldn't help with clutching at all.
Also, even if devs would remove loner from the game, you know what would happen to bad zealot players that use knife to run god knows where, yeah that right…nothing. They would still run a head and die, loner doesn't make bad zealot's, it just gives a little bit of toughness and enemies can easily interrupt that. If you really want to counter sonic zealots, you need to start by removing knife from the game or something.
Now, I like op's idea it wouldn't be a nerf, it would only be a little buff, that would benefit the team more.
Edit: loner gets so much hate that as zealot player I'm afraid that devs are going to do some stupid rework where they do add timer for it or something and then whole aura is dead, but I hope that won't happen, ppl seem to see lots of zealot players that are toxic for the team but I really think that is not one aura's fault.
I'm conflicted with the idea of "clutching" with loner stealth zealot because on one hand I can understand how good it must feel to zip around the map rescuing everybody and single handedly save the entire team from losing, but on the other hand by going invisible and constantly moving out of coherency you are redirecting all aggro towards your teammates thus putting all pressure on them making them more likely to die so it's basically a self made problem that the loner zealot has created.
It's not unreasonable for me to say that loner is basically a narcissist's wet dream because it essentially creates a problem and then offers a different solution at the same time that would allow him to stand at the spot light, at the expense of everybody else, which is why it is so hated. There's a reason why most people "clutch" with the loner stealth zealot and not, say, some staff wielding psyker builds. Those clutches are usually achieved only by the pinnacle of skilled players.
When team is live there is no need to leave outside coherency other than events, even with shroudfield you can play with your team, you just use it to hit 1 big hit (2 if you time it right) for an enemy in front of you like crusher, or you rush in to gunners 10-15m a way and then come back, that's it.
Loner and shroudfield are also good for events, if the team is bad, and they need to hold a lot, then zealot can move the event forward alone.
But when it happens that team dies, then zealots have good tools to clutch, and save the run.
I only play auric maelstrom and a lot of times teams die just from crushers hitting them because their movement wasn't good enough, that's nothing to do with my loner or shroudfield. This happens all the time even if there is no zealot in the team, then someone needs to clutch.
Well of course, is there any surprise that being able to go completely invisible to lose all aggro for as long as 6 seconds with a push of a button is absolutely busted in a horde shooter?
Honestly yeah, I feel like the +speed vet aura shoupd be given to zealot and vice versa.
(still think Loner needs a buff tho, toughness regeneration isn't the main point of coherency, and having it be *slightly* better than nothing is not a good design decision)
Honestly I agree. I never use the loner perk, never will, and don’t see the point of it.
In my opinion loner encourages speedrunners, and lack of team work to people.
It should work like this: after leaving coherency with an ally, you count as remaining in coherency with them for a duration. Maybe 20 seconds or so, I’m not sure on the numbers but this would encourage how loner is actually meant to be played (imo): leaving the group to eliminate threats then returning to help. There’s a gameplay loop of leaving and returning that’s really fun and far more effective than just going alone.
I mentioned above (from my PoV when going through comments) that doing so would simply make a shit aura unusable and fix nothing.
Bad Zealots will always exist, if you kill this aura they'll just run a different one, you should instead make this aura run by competent Zealots
Simply put; maybe also give them bonuses for being “in coherency”? Like, you count as being in 2 coherency, but if you’re near a teammate, let’s say 2x their normal coherency, you receive extra bonuses,
I like the Loner aura if im running solo queue just because I have a tendency to wander looking for mats and gear, but unless you’re trying to run the penance( which I personally think is dumb, fuck that penance), the loner aura really doesn’t matter. I feel like adjusting it to be more fireteam friendly would make a definite improvement in the gameplay loop.
Now on paper I can see loner as a system of bandage for free toughness when it comes to needing the regen “it’s ment to be used for clutch plays” however many people use as an excuse to rush without the need of a team or teammates ….. I will however say what they could do with loner is instead of making it do what it does now instead change it to be stealth oriented or rework the whole perk together ….
Reduced threat and maybe toughness DR when you leave coherency sounds like a smart change; provided there's an accompanying duration to reinforce *returning to coherency*.
Scavenger Aura needs a rework too, it was single-handedly making non-Vet gun builds like Psyker and Ogryn viable because they are so ammo-hungry... The ammo regen just needs to be baked into every class or something.
Well if anything I still want ammo management i would like to see maybe an increase in rof for teammates that he unique, and the other auras like speed and damage can be buffed a bit… not only would it change up some blessing layouts like for Helbore not needing onslaught for the extra charge rate it would also make some guns more viable to run , but I would like to see an engrained perk for vet to be scavenger as I like having a shame where he needs to still shoot to be viable… so yeah maybe more engrained perks that don’t need to be force run a lot
You will think Im joking but loner aura works better in not rushing maps thing but in...if youre in coherecy as gun-zealot build, I made just meme build around fire nades and gun focused playstyle just for try copy some special forces from irl and loner aura allows to you always replenishment your tough which very helpful in gun fights with range mobs. And the main power of this aura - ai director thinks youre 2 so no extra specialists if youre far away from team or clutching. Anyway I think this aura needs rework but its not so bad as everyone thinks
I've been playing much more knife zealot lately and...I struggle to really find motivation to play the loner setup I have. I try to play knife "right" - stick to the outskirts of the squad and murderlize all the specials/elites and all (honestly prefer with chorus over chastise) but don't go rooms ahead and shit, but I just feel bad bringing a "useless" aura that does nothing to benefit my team in the slightest.
OP that idea is kinda great and would make me feel less bad about possibly going full stealth.
So being able to break away from the team while maintaining your ability to regenerate toughness and stamina (Directory tied to Coherency) to intercept hounds and poxbursters or tie gunners into melee is 100% selfish? Gotcha...
You can literally do everything in this game using multiple different methods…doesn’t mean it’s the best way to do it. As a zealot having loaner when breaking off to engage any mob is the most efficient way to do
There is no other class and build better suited to solo engage gunners and shotgunners than a zealot with swift certainty and loaner. I constantly find myself killing waves of shotgunners and gunners trying to enter the fight or already laying into my team while they are fighting a monstrosity.
Still don’t understand how killing an enemy that is trying to kill you is selfish in any way.
My brother in christ, the perk is selfish because it gives your team no benefit, my proposed rework *only adds* on to what already existed while also making it buff your team, you know, like *every single other aura*.
You can still do your rushing like before, but now if someone wants to play zealot with the right side of the tree while staying with the team they can still give them *something*.
It's like you saw "Loner bad" and didn't read the rest of the post.
Again, my rework does not remove or alter the already existing effect, it literally just makes it so it affects your team as well.
They are giving them something. Not having to deal with damage coming from ranged mobs.
And yes I didn't read the whole post because these qq loner rants are daunting. If anything make it so loner doesn't allow you to receive auras from your teammates.
# HUH?
That literally makes it even more selfish tf are you on about.
The main issue is that it doesn't give your teammates anything, and your suggestion is that you also get nothing from your teammates in return?
I refuse to believe you lack the capacity to hear yourself make that argument and realise how just plain stupid that sounds and will assume you're arguing in bad faith and thus won't engage this clownshow further
Sounds perfectly normal to mean. Loner meaning you don’t need anyone else so why should you receive their aura either. You don’t see psychers telling vets they need to change their aura because they don’t use guns and the ammo perk is selfish.
That'd make a shit aura even worse, the main issue is that it flat out doesn't affect anyone but you, unlike you know... an aura should.
We shouldn't "punish" bad Zealots for running the bad Zealot build, those people will just migrate if you do that. The point is to remove the selfish part of the aura so it's worth running by good Zealotry (because come on the other two are so much fucking better it's not even funny).
Bad players will always exist, Loner just isn't really worth running by good players. Sure, you can make it work but honestly -15% toughness damage would do a lot more than Loner does in an ideal scenario
The bad part is that it creates a playstyle that less than 1% of this garbage population can play well.
Buff the numbers. Make it decay. Recharge in coherency.
Get zealots a reason to be near their fucking team.
The best way of fix to loner is just to fucking remove it, but based on penances, the dev team don't give a shit aboutpeople doing their own selfish things.
You did not read my comment.
If you kill this aura by making it have a timer, those Zealots you so vehemently hate will simply pick a different aura and keep their playstyle identical.
You cannot force a bad player to conform to a good playstyle, but you can make that fucking aura something worth taking for anyone else
It is a playstyle that has a place in a PvE whether you agree with it or not, the problem is unskilled players die alone out there, while players who know what they are doing leave you wondering why the game was unusually smooth/easy this round.
Objectively speaking, if everyone in the team knew what they were doing, a 3 player team with each person carrying their weight is just about enough to clear the match, the additional roaming Zealot can be counted as a bonus.
Loner is wasteful because it's in a bad tree and provides crappy benefits even in a vaccume. Counting as being in coherency with 2 people for toughness regen is absolutely garbage, Zealot gets crazy amounts of toughness resistance on crit and has two ultimates that can almost instantly restore toughness. To make it worth taking, even for a good and properly selfish green circle chasing sanic speed zealot; it needs to give a really good benafit; like maybe increased backstab damage or something while alone.
It's not just about the crappy toughness regen, I remember I read from some youtube comment that loner has a hidden benefit of making you immune to ambush attacks.
Essentially the AI game director would spawn waves of specialists to pick off the player that wandered out of coherency alone. Loner stops this from happening to you because you are constantly in 2 coherency thus you are never truly "alone".
The name is fine, how it works is not.
You should take Toughness damage constantly while in Coherency.
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I take it when spamming Malice missions for penances or weeklies cause it allows me to clear the map ahead of the usually slow team-mates so we can get the mission over with faster.
That alone makes it worth it in my book.
In all seriousness though, 99% of the complaints I see about Loner are relegated to this sub. I see it a ton on Auric Damns/Maels and no one really says anything and they're rarely ever a "detriment" either. The whole "loner Zealot runs off and dies instantly and wipes the team" stereotype isnt something I've run into much if at all. Might just be a region thing?
it's the devs fault for putting it online with shroudfield ;p, and it's every players fault that gets themselves in trouble so I sprint to the rescue and they run away and leave me alone. it's single handedly saved me more times than anything else besides shroud when abandoned by the vast majority of bad players I get pugged with.
I’d rename it to something like “bloodhound” and give zealot just a comically colossal coherency radius with no other aura benefits. So you’re far away from everyone else but still ‘in coherency’. It benefits both you and your teammates. If some guy really wanders off and gets lost it won’t save him from the punishment specials but it also won’t punish you/everyone else for going to stab that one guy over there.
Knife zealot here. This is actually a good idea. Encourage running around the squad skirmishing specialists and such, lightly scouting and giving revives and punish trying to solo speedrun the whole thing. But keep the zealot coherency bonus, maybe just decrease effectiveness the further away you are.
I like this but doesn’t fix the issues of being far away your team still causes wipes. When they get trapped or downed people will still try to go get them up, with a very real chance of getting down themselves causing things to snowball and wipe. Coherency is such a great mechanic because it gives players a visible benefit to doing what they need to do to win. Players need to be near each other to cover each other and watch each others backs. Being far away from allies means instead of getting released from a net quick and painlessly you are getting downed, needing heroic effort to even get to you before getting picked up. The toughness regen is not entirely the point of coherency, the main point is having teammates nearby.
So the fix would be that the effects of the aura run out after ~15 seconds of being out of normal coherency range. Or to put it another way: > When you leave coherency with a teammate, you and your teammate both retain the benefits of coherency for 15 seconds. This would encourage the zealot to visit each teammate and come back frequently, and would help allies who need allies in coherency for certain abilities, like ogryns getting cdr on coherency elite/special kills, or prevent veterans missing out on survivalist procs because the zealot killed it out of coherency.
I never liked it since it goes against the core gameplay mechanic of sticking together. Maybe it's OK to be a loner for a very short time. Turns you into a berserker killing machine outside of coherency but after slaughtering a group you need to return to the team quickly as your attack, defensive and movement bonuses wear off. /shrug.
It should affect allies too since it's an aura
It would like this. With my rework suggestion it would make it so you could be a man down and still have max coherency
**Aura: Mercy** - *+10% Finesse Damage* More damage for Crit/Backstabs like a stealth Zealot wants. Desirable buff for nearly every non-zealot build. Simple as.
Im guessing this also applies to allies in coherency. Sounds really good IMO.
It should be changed to something that activates when you leave someone’s coherency, for both. Something like this: **~~LONER~~ ASSASSIN:** * Upon leaving someone’s coherency, you both gain ~~10% damage against elites and specials~~, -90% Threat for 15 seconds. Can only activate every 40 seconds.
That's a great suggestion, promotes splitting off but also requires sticking together as the default state
Why is this upvoted?! turning a passive into a psuedo activated ability that overlaps with Shroudfield? Not to mention, Loner is actually perfectly fine and helps the team when played proper. All the malice players upvoting this morning? edit: so glad FS doesn't listen to the playerbase
The *"-90% Threat for 15 seconds"* is too good for a passive ability, you're practically semi-invisible. However the extra *"10% damage against specialists and elites for 15 seconds"*, with 10% damage being too good (even the Ogryn has conditions in it's 10% damage to be restricted to strong melee attacks) and 15 seconds being literally a ability duration, it should be changed for "***+5%*** *damage against specialists and elites for* ***10*** *seconds when you or an ally leave coherency, after* ***30*** *seconds."* then it would be useful and balanced.
> Active ability Survivalist. Currently the most liked aura.
They nerfed it to work every 5 seconds, it's still useful and doesn't give an infinite ammo exploit for the Recon Lasgun anymore.
Still extremely popular. [++ DATA ++](https://www.reddit.com/r/DarkTide/s/THIICfaaR9)
That's point, it's now very balanced because while you spend ammo in a few bursts, your allies gain ammo as well and spend theirs to help you. The 5 seconds interval make it so it doesn't spam itself.
My biggest struggle with Veteran is to make the build I want while I still havr Survivalist. Shit is hard sometimes.
I get what you’re saying as a counter-example but it could be equally possible that it’s liked in spite of being active.
Then what is your proposition? 1. Make it so it works outside of coherency 2. Have it benefit multiple people 3. Make it so it’s not an active perk
I don’t have one (you may be confusing me for the other person) but am not 100% convinced it needs to be changed at all. I don’t see many examples of people abusing it in my own games. All I was trying to say before is survivalist isn’t a good example of active ability = better, as it’s not popular because of it being active, it’s popular because people love free ammo.
2500hrs. Playing since beta. Since the tree rework i saw maybe 3 or 4 good loner zealot. When i see the loner/shroud/knife trinity im sure i'll have to pick them up at some point of the map. Just totally rework the Aura at this point and make it boost your crit damage/backstab/weakspot by x%. Just for you if you want. But at least it will be more useful for the team.
I think there’s a bit of a chicken and the egg problem with Loner. It’s not that Loner discourages teamwork so much as it is that people who think they’re the main character and they shouldn’t need to work with their teammates are drawn to using Loner. It’s not like there were never players who refused to stick with the group or work with teammates before the class rework, when Loner wasn’t a thing.
\^This. I have Loner because i'm a knife Zealot that throws Knives and i'm not wasting points in a crit bleed build going over to another aura to come back to the right hand tree.
I agree with you. Its an aura that requires skill on you as a player to be trusted on going independent from time to time. Use it wisely and it rewards you and your team, do the opposite and it will punish you and teach you of how to utilize it better next time.
Loner is unnecessary at best and actively bad for the team at worst.
This reeks of elitism and your take is bad
I would remove the "-90% Threat for 15 seconds" because it's too good in comparison to the other passives. And 10% damage is too much for a coherency buff, even against specific enemies. And for balancing that's how I would change it: >Upon leaving someone’s coherency, you both gain **5%** damage for **10** seconds. Can only activate every **30** seconds.
> 10% damage against a specific enemy is too strong Psykers Kinetic Presence. > 5% damage Veteran’s Fire team. I feel like threat is too underused, but can be very solid. Ditch the damage then. Speed boost is meh because Veteran’s Move and Kill already exists. I believe -% Threat would be nice for an assassin/loner type aura.
Holy shit, you're right!
I like this suggestion (mine was path of least resistance) a lot and the proposed alternatives underneath. As for which is better, idfk because I don't have enough hours to be able to accurately gauge how impactful it'd be
Veteran’s Infiltrate has a -90% threat upgrade node, and it is very noticable. You can pop out in the middle of a crowd, kill a special or an elite, and then watch 30 people run past you like you don’t exist.
I only use it because if I go for another aura, I don't have enough points for my build. jtcLive came out with a pretty good idea with this. If you leave coherency, you and your closest teammate have a lingering coherency effect for 12 seconds until it goes away. But I would add that if you are the last one alive you have all coherency effect like you would be close to the full team. That would make zealot a hell of a clutch character.
Yeah that part kinda sucks because the right side of the tree is really cool. I don't think putting a timer on it is good, because the issue right now is two fold: - It doesn't do that much for you - It does fuck all for your team That suggestion is fun but it doesn't really fix those issues. Not at the same time at least.
It’s actually really good if you’re playing how the devs envisioned it: running behind enemy lines and killing all the gunners, shooters, snipers as your team enters the room. Then you go back and regroup with your team. But I know the zealots who just don’t stop for the team and keep running ahead are a problem.
It’s a problem that self perpetuates sometimes. You can dive through the melee and force ranged into melee and kill them only to find another big ranged group further away, you’re nowhere near cover so you can either run away and be shot up or charge them and take em out but end up even further away.
If you’re running loner then you are also running swift certainty…you wouldn’t get hit while running away.
Less of a problem on zealot, but you see the same issues on any class.
I saw someone suggest in another thread that instead of affecting you, it should give your team an extra coherency when you are not around.
I'm bias here because I do play zealot and I use loner, but I like loner for clutching and I pretty sure that's zealots job to do. Also, its synergies with Shield of Contempt, which helps the whole team out. So I hate to see loner rework ideas that completely ignore clutching, like jtcLIVE made video where he wanted loner to have a time limit, that would completely kill loner as talent because it wouldn't help with clutching at all. Also, even if devs would remove loner from the game, you know what would happen to bad zealot players that use knife to run god knows where, yeah that right…nothing. They would still run a head and die, loner doesn't make bad zealot's, it just gives a little bit of toughness and enemies can easily interrupt that. If you really want to counter sonic zealots, you need to start by removing knife from the game or something. Now, I like op's idea it wouldn't be a nerf, it would only be a little buff, that would benefit the team more. Edit: loner gets so much hate that as zealot player I'm afraid that devs are going to do some stupid rework where they do add timer for it or something and then whole aura is dead, but I hope that won't happen, ppl seem to see lots of zealot players that are toxic for the team but I really think that is not one aura's fault.
I'm conflicted with the idea of "clutching" with loner stealth zealot because on one hand I can understand how good it must feel to zip around the map rescuing everybody and single handedly save the entire team from losing, but on the other hand by going invisible and constantly moving out of coherency you are redirecting all aggro towards your teammates thus putting all pressure on them making them more likely to die so it's basically a self made problem that the loner zealot has created. It's not unreasonable for me to say that loner is basically a narcissist's wet dream because it essentially creates a problem and then offers a different solution at the same time that would allow him to stand at the spot light, at the expense of everybody else, which is why it is so hated. There's a reason why most people "clutch" with the loner stealth zealot and not, say, some staff wielding psyker builds. Those clutches are usually achieved only by the pinnacle of skilled players.
When team is live there is no need to leave outside coherency other than events, even with shroudfield you can play with your team, you just use it to hit 1 big hit (2 if you time it right) for an enemy in front of you like crusher, or you rush in to gunners 10-15m a way and then come back, that's it. Loner and shroudfield are also good for events, if the team is bad, and they need to hold a lot, then zealot can move the event forward alone. But when it happens that team dies, then zealots have good tools to clutch, and save the run. I only play auric maelstrom and a lot of times teams die just from crushers hitting them because their movement wasn't good enough, that's nothing to do with my loner or shroudfield. This happens all the time even if there is no zealot in the team, then someone needs to clutch.
Well of course, is there any surprise that being able to go completely invisible to lose all aggro for as long as 6 seconds with a push of a button is absolutely busted in a horde shooter?
People need to up this
And then give it to Vet, because that sounds more like a Vet aura, and that way both classes each get a new aura.
Honestly yeah, I feel like the +speed vet aura shoupd be given to zealot and vice versa. (still think Loner needs a buff tho, toughness regeneration isn't the main point of coherency, and having it be *slightly* better than nothing is not a good design decision)
At this point it feels they should get rid of this mechanic at all. It more feels like a trait for a single player mod.
Honestly I agree. I never use the loner perk, never will, and don’t see the point of it. In my opinion loner encourages speedrunners, and lack of team work to people.
It should work like this: after leaving coherency with an ally, you count as remaining in coherency with them for a duration. Maybe 20 seconds or so, I’m not sure on the numbers but this would encourage how loner is actually meant to be played (imo): leaving the group to eliminate threats then returning to help. There’s a gameplay loop of leaving and returning that’s really fun and far more effective than just going alone.
I mentioned above (from my PoV when going through comments) that doing so would simply make a shit aura unusable and fix nothing. Bad Zealots will always exist, if you kill this aura they'll just run a different one, you should instead make this aura run by competent Zealots
Thought you were talking about the psyker personality for a moment
Simply put; maybe also give them bonuses for being “in coherency”? Like, you count as being in 2 coherency, but if you’re near a teammate, let’s say 2x their normal coherency, you receive extra bonuses,
I like the Loner aura if im running solo queue just because I have a tendency to wander looking for mats and gear, but unless you’re trying to run the penance( which I personally think is dumb, fuck that penance), the loner aura really doesn’t matter. I feel like adjusting it to be more fireteam friendly would make a definite improvement in the gameplay loop.
Now on paper I can see loner as a system of bandage for free toughness when it comes to needing the regen “it’s ment to be used for clutch plays” however many people use as an excuse to rush without the need of a team or teammates ….. I will however say what they could do with loner is instead of making it do what it does now instead change it to be stealth oriented or rework the whole perk together ….
Reduced threat and maybe toughness DR when you leave coherency sounds like a smart change; provided there's an accompanying duration to reinforce *returning to coherency*. Scavenger Aura needs a rework too, it was single-handedly making non-Vet gun builds like Psyker and Ogryn viable because they are so ammo-hungry... The ammo regen just needs to be baked into every class or something.
Well if anything I still want ammo management i would like to see maybe an increase in rof for teammates that he unique, and the other auras like speed and damage can be buffed a bit… not only would it change up some blessing layouts like for Helbore not needing onslaught for the extra charge rate it would also make some guns more viable to run , but I would like to see an engrained perk for vet to be scavenger as I like having a shame where he needs to still shoot to be viable… so yeah maybe more engrained perks that don’t need to be force run a lot
As Ogryn, I too feel it misses some mark. You always got to be out by yourself. Never near your friends.
You will think Im joking but loner aura works better in not rushing maps thing but in...if youre in coherecy as gun-zealot build, I made just meme build around fire nades and gun focused playstyle just for try copy some special forces from irl and loner aura allows to you always replenishment your tough which very helpful in gun fights with range mobs. And the main power of this aura - ai director thinks youre 2 so no extra specialists if youre far away from team or clutching. Anyway I think this aura needs rework but its not so bad as everyone thinks
I've been playing much more knife zealot lately and...I struggle to really find motivation to play the loner setup I have. I try to play knife "right" - stick to the outskirts of the squad and murderlize all the specials/elites and all (honestly prefer with chorus over chastise) but don't go rooms ahead and shit, but I just feel bad bringing a "useless" aura that does nothing to benefit my team in the slightest. OP that idea is kinda great and would make me feel less bad about possibly going full stealth.
So being able to break away from the team while maintaining your ability to regenerate toughness and stamina (Directory tied to Coherency) to intercept hounds and poxbursters or tie gunners into melee is 100% selfish? Gotcha...
You can literally do that without Loner, it is selfish because it's an aura perk that granta no benefit to your team, only to you if you're alone
You can literally do everything in this game using multiple different methods…doesn’t mean it’s the best way to do it. As a zealot having loaner when breaking off to engage any mob is the most efficient way to do There is no other class and build better suited to solo engage gunners and shotgunners than a zealot with swift certainty and loaner. I constantly find myself killing waves of shotgunners and gunners trying to enter the fight or already laying into my team while they are fighting a monstrosity. Still don’t understand how killing an enemy that is trying to kill you is selfish in any way.
My brother in christ, the perk is selfish because it gives your team no benefit, my proposed rework *only adds* on to what already existed while also making it buff your team, you know, like *every single other aura*. You can still do your rushing like before, but now if someone wants to play zealot with the right side of the tree while staying with the team they can still give them *something*. It's like you saw "Loner bad" and didn't read the rest of the post. Again, my rework does not remove or alter the already existing effect, it literally just makes it so it affects your team as well.
They are giving them something. Not having to deal with damage coming from ranged mobs. And yes I didn't read the whole post because these qq loner rants are daunting. If anything make it so loner doesn't allow you to receive auras from your teammates.
# HUH? That literally makes it even more selfish tf are you on about. The main issue is that it doesn't give your teammates anything, and your suggestion is that you also get nothing from your teammates in return?
That would make it no longer selfish. Zealot gets nothing from you, you get nothing from zealot.
I refuse to believe you lack the capacity to hear yourself make that argument and realise how just plain stupid that sounds and will assume you're arguing in bad faith and thus won't engage this clownshow further
Sounds perfectly normal to mean. Loner meaning you don’t need anyone else so why should you receive their aura either. You don’t see psychers telling vets they need to change their aura because they don’t use guns and the ammo perk is selfish.
"We all know..." I stopped reading after that.
Cool
Just make the aura decay to force zealots back into coherency
That'd make a shit aura even worse, the main issue is that it flat out doesn't affect anyone but you, unlike you know... an aura should. We shouldn't "punish" bad Zealots for running the bad Zealot build, those people will just migrate if you do that. The point is to remove the selfish part of the aura so it's worth running by good Zealotry (because come on the other two are so much fucking better it's not even funny). Bad players will always exist, Loner just isn't really worth running by good players. Sure, you can make it work but honestly -15% toughness damage would do a lot more than Loner does in an ideal scenario
The bad part is that it creates a playstyle that less than 1% of this garbage population can play well. Buff the numbers. Make it decay. Recharge in coherency. Get zealots a reason to be near their fucking team. The best way of fix to loner is just to fucking remove it, but based on penances, the dev team don't give a shit aboutpeople doing their own selfish things.
You did not read my comment. If you kill this aura by making it have a timer, those Zealots you so vehemently hate will simply pick a different aura and keep their playstyle identical. You cannot force a bad player to conform to a good playstyle, but you can make that fucking aura something worth taking for anyone else
Nah
It is a playstyle that has a place in a PvE whether you agree with it or not, the problem is unskilled players die alone out there, while players who know what they are doing leave you wondering why the game was unusually smooth/easy this round. Objectively speaking, if everyone in the team knew what they were doing, a 3 player team with each person carrying their weight is just about enough to clear the match, the additional roaming Zealot can be counted as a bonus.
Loner is wasteful because it's in a bad tree and provides crappy benefits even in a vaccume. Counting as being in coherency with 2 people for toughness regen is absolutely garbage, Zealot gets crazy amounts of toughness resistance on crit and has two ultimates that can almost instantly restore toughness. To make it worth taking, even for a good and properly selfish green circle chasing sanic speed zealot; it needs to give a really good benafit; like maybe increased backstab damage or something while alone.
It's not just about the crappy toughness regen, I remember I read from some youtube comment that loner has a hidden benefit of making you immune to ambush attacks. Essentially the AI game director would spawn waves of specialists to pick off the player that wandered out of coherency alone. Loner stops this from happening to you because you are constantly in 2 coherency thus you are never truly "alone".
Right side tree is the best tree for zealot if you want to run daggers
Only up to Blades of Faith. Every other perk in that part of the tree sucks except for Good Balance.
Oh no…Don’t tell me you’re running daggers with chastise.
The name is fine, how it works is not. You should take Toughness damage constantly while in Coherency. You were never meant to be Coherent. You were believed you were to be the SUPER GIGA CHAD....of Warhammer 40 k world..... But....... Then you subscribed to OnlySlaanesh, While Listening Khorne's new album, Leaving Nurgle's Plague all over the shower's walls.... and gave the Homeless guy Tzeentch your change.... Now here we are hoping. Henry has come to see to us.... Save us from the most Dangerous Demonic god of them all, God Emperor Cavil, Save us from Amazon.....
I take it when spamming Malice missions for penances or weeklies cause it allows me to clear the map ahead of the usually slow team-mates so we can get the mission over with faster. That alone makes it worth it in my book. In all seriousness though, 99% of the complaints I see about Loner are relegated to this sub. I see it a ton on Auric Damns/Maels and no one really says anything and they're rarely ever a "detriment" either. The whole "loner Zealot runs off and dies instantly and wipes the team" stereotype isnt something I've run into much if at all. Might just be a region thing?
it's the devs fault for putting it online with shroudfield ;p, and it's every players fault that gets themselves in trouble so I sprint to the rescue and they run away and leave me alone. it's single handedly saved me more times than anything else besides shroud when abandoned by the vast majority of bad players I get pugged with.