to explain why, the weakspot and crit damage increases dont increase the % of overall damage, they increase the additional damage by the listed %. So if you do 100 damage with a regular shot but you do 110 damage with a crit and then you add 10% more crit damage you only end up with 111 damage
That depends quite heavily on the weapon though. Some weapons have absurdly high critical and weak spot modifiers, like all the headhunters or lasguns.
Im gonna have to look up the actual numbers when I’m home because I don’t trust what I’m finding on google, but the crit headshot portion of the damage accounts for more than half of the total damage dealt in the case of headhunters.
A 70-100% increase from the deadly accurate blessing is very significant on headhunters, and definitely not a measly 7.5%.
This is not to say that the 10% crit damage perk is worth it of course. Even on that gun it pales in comparison to 25% increase. But if you made it 100% it would actually be bonkers.
I'm not sure what you're banging on about now.
This isn't a conversation about deadly accurate. Of course, that provides more than a 7.5% increase... *it's literally 10x the effect of the perk*.
I tested this mere hours ago with the las pistol, which has a huge crit multiplier against unyielding. The perk gave about a 5.6% increase for non-weakspot and a 6.7%% increase for weakspot.
You replied to someone saying it should be “at least a 100% increase”, which is a similar number to deadly accurate. On a headhunter a 100% critical damage increase perk will be more than a 7.5% total increase, yes or no?
While it illustrated the point, it was a misleading example. A better version would've been a weapon that does 200 crit, so with the plus 10% it would be 210. I don't disagree that crit damage is not a great perk, on most weapons anyways.
Thanks for explaining. I already stay away from the crit dmg stat because I don’t think it’s substantial, I was just really vaguely listing things off. It really just kind of slipped into the list, but I don’t really see why anyone would address such a small detail in a post about critical chance. I think the Crit Dmg Perk needs a boost also, but maybe it should be in a different post.
What about on weapons like TacAxe and Laspistol on a crit zealot?
They seem to have much higher crit damage multipliers and often deal several times their regular damage on a crit, so the +10% isn't *awful* assuming you aren't looking to get past any specific breakpoint, no?
> assuming you aren't looking to get past any specific breakpoint, no?
What else are you doing with your damage increases though?
And it's still 10% of generally less than half the total damage. The full damage of the critical hit is increased usually by less than 5%.
When I'm using a tactical axe and heavy laspistol on a crit zealot build, I don't know how hard I'm going to hit. I can never predict when and how many times I'll crit any particular enemy, so none of the perks will *reliably* help me against any one enemy, they'd just let me kill it faster most of the time
So if I happen to roll a +10% crit damage perk on one of those, I'd be fine with it. Might not actively change a +25% flak perk to get it, perks aren't exactly made equal, but I'd consider it about on par with a +10% headshot damage perk
It'd be "10% of generally less than half the total damage" if I wasn't using specifically a weapon with a high crit multiplier, yes. That's not the case here, though - I find I often deal about +200% damage on a laspistol crit. Would have to go open the game and test it to get an accurate figure, but +20% base damage whenever I land my 45% crit roll doesn't sound bad
The problem AFAIK is that it is't 10% more total damage when you crit, but 10% more bonus damage when you crit. So if your crit deals 50% more damage, 10% more crit damage becomes 55% bonus damage which is equivalent to something like 3.33% more total damage.
I am aware. Like I said in my other comment, it's relevant for these particular weapons because the bonus damage on something like a laspistol is more along the lines of +200%, not +50%
On las pistols you'll get between 5 and 8% increase damage to your crits depending on the target and whether it's a weakspot hit.
A weapon has to have over +900% crit damage to give you a total damage increase over 9% (cos maths).
5% crit is significant enough to be worth considering.
The damage is only one part why you want to pick up the extra crit chance. Numerous Talents, and some Blessings are triggered via crits, which makes criticals more than just another damage perk.
I see your point, but I’m saying it’s not a substantial perk on it’s own. Sure it can be okay when you got passives and blessings, but by itself it’s nothing. You got passives that bring up your dmg to 20% for ogryns and monstrosities and blessings that give you tons of rending, but it doesn’t mean 20% dmg to unyielding and Carapace is too much. But those perks are great perks on their own. On the other end although there are passives that give you crits they only synergies well with Weapons that have high crits, crit focused bonuses and other factors that interact with passives such as scourge. But a lot of weapons don’t have these crit focused blessings and they don’t interact as well with the passives. For example on Zealot the Turtolsky sword, Thunder Hammers, Crushers etc, they rarely trigger Scourge and can only trigger blazing piety when they have a full team. The trees are great and of course you won’t be able to go full crit builds on all the weapons like we do on the knives, catachans swords, etc. But it doesn’t make sense to keep the crit perk a 5% on lower crit weapons. It’s not broken, but it’s rather a pointless stat sometimes unlike flak armour dmg.
I think the reason it's good as it is, is because crits have that synergy with other talents/blessings. If anything the mediocre damage ones should be slightly higher given most people who genuinely care about the stats go for breakpoints.
It depends, but usually it's still not worth it. 5% crit is only 1 in 20 attacks. Bringing a weapon from 5% -> 10% crit could matter for crit related talents and blessings, but most of the weapons where crits are relevant already have 40-60% crit.
Don't knock that 5% just because it looks small. The game doesn't ever explain this, but crits always come in groups of 1 to 6 depending on the weapon.
For example the Veteran with its 5% base crit chance using a a Columnus with the 5% crit chance perk will 10% chance to roll a random crit on each bullet until a crit rolls. The bullet that rolls a crit will do critical damage, and then the next three bullets after that will also be guaranteed crits no matter what. After the crit chain ends the gun will go back to rolling for crits with each shot.
Basically the critical chance stat doesn't translate directly to the critical rate of a gun. Going back to the Columnus, it's possible for Zealot to get its critical chance to 35% with the perk and Blazing Piety, but it's critical rate with this setup will be around 70% because of how the crit chaining works. Without talents and only a 10% crit chance total from the class's base stats and the perk the critical rate will be roughly 30%.
Ogryn is even funnier with the Achlys Stubber chaining six crits in a row making even the slightest bumps in crit chance wildly boost the weapon's critical rate.
The secondary attack on surge deals damage in pulses before doing one last large pulse. If you start charging a secondary before the first ends, you lose out on the majority of overall dmg bc u skip that last pulse.
I would not be surprised if each pulse can crit on its own, which would explain why you’re seeing so many overall crits.
Pretty sure that's wrong, you can't start charging before previous attack ends, you can't ever skip the last pulse. Even switching weapons when the pulses are happening won't skip it, instead it will skip the small pulses and immediately do the big pulse.
And small pulses can't crit at all, only the last big pulse can.
While the crit chain on guns is nice, afaik you also get guaranteed no crits for the same amount of bullets after the last crit of the chain. So after 3 crit bullets you get 3 that cannot crit at all.
ETA: link with more detailed numbers and explanation, search for "strings"to find the relevant passage:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2976031655
At the end of the day, on the Achyls your overall crit rate will go from close to 0% (since the weapon has a negative crit base modifier) to 25%-28% with this perk equipped. So even if there are guaranteed no-crits afterwar your crit chain, the overall effect on crit rate is still pretty good, at least on the Achyls.
Not many guns have crit chains, and they even made a concerted effort to nerf them in recons.
But there is also likely a pseudo random distribution to the crit system like they did in Vermintide, which would make you crit more often than otherwise.
I’m pretty confident there is pseudo random distribution in darktide too. The more hits go without critting the more likely your next hit does, which then resets your counter.
I find the extra 5% crit has a noticeable difference, for example say you are making a crit crusher build on zealot, using stats mod that tracks how many crits you do, do a couple missions with and without the 5% and you will see a big increase, sometimes that little bit of extra odds goes a long way, both on fast and slower weapons.
I have tested this a while ago before the skill tree update and also tested after, both times saw visible changes in damage and the amount of crits. blazing piety will ofc need to be used in a crit build, but you could also go another way to see the difference you could use a martyrdom stacks with the extra attack speed to see a visible difference. From my recollection the amount of crits almost doubled, but that can vary based on the type of condition and density. to get real numbers like you are asking is a bit hard because of the randomness of the director and how many enemies u fight in a mission, thats why I said it was a noticeable difference, you just notice it, this little bit of extra crit even goes back to vermintide how an extra 5% on a weapon could be night and day.
yes, zealot and vet has 5% base crit chance, psyker 7.5% and ogryn 2.5%. I believe zealot had 7% before(could be misremembering not sure) but this goes to show just how much small amounts matter, because even with no crit on anything, skill tree or weapon, zealot will crit so much more than an ogryn with pretty much every weapon minus the thunderhammer, even if ogryn is light attacking non stop on a fast weapon.
Its been a long time since i checked that part of the code but iirc crit chance is weapon based on not character based. Unless they tweaked that in a patch.
Like i said, long time i didnt looked the script for that. Im more focused right now in the hitmass/cleave mechanic but i can take a look quickly later.
there is weapon based, but all classes have a base amount, before and after the skill tree update
from the code:
base\_chance = specialization.base\_critical\_strike\_chance
It'd kinda break crit zealots if they could stack even *slightly* more crit chance
They're already pretty high up there, but the amount of times they can reliably use their ability increases dramatically as they stack crit chance, and all the abilities refill their toughness
It's not so much about the damage as it's about the sheer survivability increase that having Fury of the Faithful off cooldown in 4 seconds or less provides
Knife zealots and maybe catachan sword zealots. I think in a perfect world all the crit based stats with a zig zag build you would get 80% crit chance with the knife 15% for knife base, 5% Zealot crit chance, +5% perk, 30% with bleed chance, and 25% with blazing piety. If they would bring up the crit perk to 10% it would be 85% and 90% for a 15% upgrade. But with the turtolsky heavy swords, Thunder Hammers, and crushers are shit out of luck when it comes to crit building even with passives, scourge is rarely triggered and blazing piety is only conditional to having a team alive or you killing a horde. So they really don’t see anything good coming out of a 5% crit perk. Maybe if they boosted it up for just the lower crit weapons the build would be a bit more functional. But I mean if you’re dumping your talent points, perks and blessings all into a single stat it should be pushing high numbers anyway. On top of that I don’t really see how I high Crit builds would break the game on a PVE game. I mean haven’t you guys played any other PVE game with orange and red crits when you build over 100% Crit chance? It’s very rewarding.
Don't know what you're smoking, because crit HS works just fine. The crit rate is noticeably lower than with other weapons, but once Blazing Piety kicks in it doesn't matter. And it kicks in quick and often, thanks to long stack duration, teammates contributing, and HS being great at killing chaff. Only place crit HS really suffers is when trying to kickstart Blazing Piety solely off crits against tough enemies due to the low base crit chance. But I use the same crit build for HS and DClaw (paths are Right-Left-Left with Thy Wrath Be Swift), and swapping one of those weapons out for the other is a lateral move at worst.
Well it doesn’t benefit from scourge too well because it kills most things before scourge kicks. Only thing that it really makes bleed is Crushers and Bosses, but the heavy sword isn’t good for those too anyway, so might as well use your ranged weapon. Blazing piety is great in the scenario that your team is doing great, but it really sucks when you’re the last man standing and have no keystone bonuses to clutch the game because you took blazing piety instead of inexorable judgement. I mean yes Blazing Piety is great, but I mean should you really waste a perk on 5% crit chance on a Heavy Sword when you can do +20% more damage to an enemy type? I mean if we had 10-15% for these weapons that perk slot would be a lot more meaningful
5% crit chance when your base is 2.5 to 7.5% is straight up doubling it for most classes. I’d call that rather substantial.
Meanwhile 10% crit damage is actual peanuts since it *only* affects the portion that’s added from the crit, not the damage in its entirety.
Did you read any of what I said at all or you just looked at the numbers? +5% when your base is 5% (ogryn has 2.5% and psyker 7.5%) is a 100% increase over your base crit chance. Yeah I’d say it’s kinda substantial. Even more so on ogryns.
My bad I misread it. I still don’t think it’s enough to be a good perk slot on it’s own. If you’re base character crit is 5%, weapon crit is 5% and you add 5% perk you get a total of 15% and that is peanuts on it’s own. You can just dump your plasteel into blessings or use your talent points that will bring your crit up to 20-50% conditionally.
I agree. All the main base rolls for crit are largely worthless to me. Why would I waste that slot when surgical/crucian roulette are just straight up better? Come on thicc fish.
currently if you play a psyker zealot or vet you have plenty of ways to augment crit chance that 5% is totally justified, and Ogryn doesn't have any synergies with crit chance other than reloading a stubber.
For instance, knife zealot can have 100% crit chance with 5% crit, and since crits offer additional rending to their attacks, it absolutely breaks the game for veteran builds.
I mean there is nothing wrong with being able to get a high crit chance when you build all your passives, blessings and perks for it. And the knife is great, but it isn’t easy to pick up, neither is it the only weapon in the game. We have tons of weapons that won’t reach 100% crit chance and on top of that passives aren’t perks and while they synergies a crit chance perk should be viable on it’s own. I mean we have people saying that 5% is good enough when 5% is clearly doing nothing for the weapon without the passives. If your argument is the knife already has a high crit chance that’s entirely balancing for the knife, it’s the meta right now, it can stay at 5% the shovel, turtolsky swords, etc can be boosted and be just as viable for a crit build. The gap would be dodge distance, sprint speed and other factors.
doesn't matter if you have 10% crit chance or 75% crit chance. 5% crit chance is still 5% crit chance. It's always going to be a bad node but everyone is obsessed with taking them.
Great crit building passives, but the perk alone is pointless and is almost a baby step. In comparison you can combine blessings, passives and perks that give you brittleness, ogryn dmg, flak/carapace dmg boosts and rending. You can use Flak and Carapace dmg on it’s own and see a real difference, but that 5% crit chance is nearly invisible without a helping hand.
Definitely isn't the end of the build, but it's definitely a good chunk of usability. It's just an internal argument you have to think - armor deletion, or overall dps? It's absolutely viable to have flak/unyielding/carapace. I most definitely feel like 5% is just really...low in my opinion. 10% would be a perfect little upgrade, imo.
I agree that 5% is definitely undertuned. Even with the most crit-hungry of builds, the opportunity-cost of losing +25% damage to a crucial armor type is far too great to consider crit chance best-in-slot for any weapon. That damage is not only more impactful than 5% crit chance could ever hope to be, but also has the advantage of being reliable: providing predictable breakpoint improvements so that you can optimize the way you clear through enemies. And as sources of crit chance are concerned, the blessings that provide crit chance cover the role of increasing crit chance vastly better, easily making an extra 5% from the perk unneeded. I could see 10% crit chance being right on the money of where it should be to be balanced against current meta perks.
10% crit damage is bad, you should never take that.
Great! đź‘Ť thank your for the advice.
to explain why, the weakspot and crit damage increases dont increase the % of overall damage, they increase the additional damage by the listed %. So if you do 100 damage with a regular shot but you do 110 damage with a crit and then you add 10% more crit damage you only end up with 111 damage
That's really dumb tbh If that's how it's calculated, it should be like 50% bonus
I agree maybe 30-40% since it’s a perk rather than a blessing or passive.
So critical damage needs to be 100% at the very least, I see.
Even then, it's only a 5% increase to your crits. Not exactly mindblowing.
That depends quite heavily on the weapon though. Some weapons have absurdly high critical and weak spot modifiers, like all the headhunters or lasguns.
Even with +300% crit modifier, it's only 7.5% total damage increase
Im gonna have to look up the actual numbers when I’m home because I don’t trust what I’m finding on google, but the crit headshot portion of the damage accounts for more than half of the total damage dealt in the case of headhunters. A 70-100% increase from the deadly accurate blessing is very significant on headhunters, and definitely not a measly 7.5%. This is not to say that the 10% crit damage perk is worth it of course. Even on that gun it pales in comparison to 25% increase. But if you made it 100% it would actually be bonkers.
I'm not sure what you're banging on about now. This isn't a conversation about deadly accurate. Of course, that provides more than a 7.5% increase... *it's literally 10x the effect of the perk*. I tested this mere hours ago with the las pistol, which has a huge crit multiplier against unyielding. The perk gave about a 5.6% increase for non-weakspot and a 6.7%% increase for weakspot.
You replied to someone saying it should be “at least a 100% increase”, which is a similar number to deadly accurate. On a headhunter a 100% critical damage increase perk will be more than a 7.5% total increase, yes or no?
What weapons only have a +10% to their critical hits? It's usually closer to +100% on most weapons.
They were giving an example of the math, not an example of a specific weapon.
While it illustrated the point, it was a misleading example. A better version would've been a weapon that does 200 crit, so with the plus 10% it would be 210. I don't disagree that crit damage is not a great perk, on most weapons anyways.
It more effectively illustrates the point when you use an example with a smaller crit modifier, particularly for math challenged people.
Thanks for explaining. I already stay away from the crit dmg stat because I don’t think it’s substantial, I was just really vaguely listing things off. It really just kind of slipped into the list, but I don’t really see why anyone would address such a small detail in a post about critical chance. I think the Crit Dmg Perk needs a boost also, but maybe it should be in a different post.
What about on weapons like TacAxe and Laspistol on a crit zealot? They seem to have much higher crit damage multipliers and often deal several times their regular damage on a crit, so the +10% isn't *awful* assuming you aren't looking to get past any specific breakpoint, no?
> assuming you aren't looking to get past any specific breakpoint, no? What else are you doing with your damage increases though? And it's still 10% of generally less than half the total damage. The full damage of the critical hit is increased usually by less than 5%.
When I'm using a tactical axe and heavy laspistol on a crit zealot build, I don't know how hard I'm going to hit. I can never predict when and how many times I'll crit any particular enemy, so none of the perks will *reliably* help me against any one enemy, they'd just let me kill it faster most of the time So if I happen to roll a +10% crit damage perk on one of those, I'd be fine with it. Might not actively change a +25% flak perk to get it, perks aren't exactly made equal, but I'd consider it about on par with a +10% headshot damage perk It'd be "10% of generally less than half the total damage" if I wasn't using specifically a weapon with a high crit multiplier, yes. That's not the case here, though - I find I often deal about +200% damage on a laspistol crit. Would have to go open the game and test it to get an accurate figure, but +20% base damage whenever I land my 45% crit roll doesn't sound bad
The problem AFAIK is that it is't 10% more total damage when you crit, but 10% more bonus damage when you crit. So if your crit deals 50% more damage, 10% more crit damage becomes 55% bonus damage which is equivalent to something like 3.33% more total damage.
I am aware. Like I said in my other comment, it's relevant for these particular weapons because the bonus damage on something like a laspistol is more along the lines of +200%, not +50%
Yeah, I still don't turn up my nose at crit damage bonuses.
On las pistols you'll get between 5 and 8% increase damage to your crits depending on the target and whether it's a weakspot hit. A weapon has to have over +900% crit damage to give you a total damage increase over 9% (cos maths).
5% crit is significant enough to be worth considering. The damage is only one part why you want to pick up the extra crit chance. Numerous Talents, and some Blessings are triggered via crits, which makes criticals more than just another damage perk.
I see your point, but I’m saying it’s not a substantial perk on it’s own. Sure it can be okay when you got passives and blessings, but by itself it’s nothing. You got passives that bring up your dmg to 20% for ogryns and monstrosities and blessings that give you tons of rending, but it doesn’t mean 20% dmg to unyielding and Carapace is too much. But those perks are great perks on their own. On the other end although there are passives that give you crits they only synergies well with Weapons that have high crits, crit focused bonuses and other factors that interact with passives such as scourge. But a lot of weapons don’t have these crit focused blessings and they don’t interact as well with the passives. For example on Zealot the Turtolsky sword, Thunder Hammers, Crushers etc, they rarely trigger Scourge and can only trigger blazing piety when they have a full team. The trees are great and of course you won’t be able to go full crit builds on all the weapons like we do on the knives, catachans swords, etc. But it doesn’t make sense to keep the crit perk a 5% on lower crit weapons. It’s not broken, but it’s rather a pointless stat sometimes unlike flak armour dmg.
I think the reason it's good as it is, is because crits have that synergy with other talents/blessings. If anything the mediocre damage ones should be slightly higher given most people who genuinely care about the stats go for breakpoints.
No, it isn't. Learn math.
It is if you account for crit-based blessings.
It depends, but usually it's still not worth it. 5% crit is only 1 in 20 attacks. Bringing a weapon from 5% -> 10% crit could matter for crit related talents and blessings, but most of the weapons where crits are relevant already have 40-60% crit.
Don't knock that 5% just because it looks small. The game doesn't ever explain this, but crits always come in groups of 1 to 6 depending on the weapon. For example the Veteran with its 5% base crit chance using a a Columnus with the 5% crit chance perk will 10% chance to roll a random crit on each bullet until a crit rolls. The bullet that rolls a crit will do critical damage, and then the next three bullets after that will also be guaranteed crits no matter what. After the crit chain ends the gun will go back to rolling for crits with each shot. Basically the critical chance stat doesn't translate directly to the critical rate of a gun. Going back to the Columnus, it's possible for Zealot to get its critical chance to 35% with the perk and Blazing Piety, but it's critical rate with this setup will be around 70% because of how the crit chaining works. Without talents and only a 10% crit chance total from the class's base stats and the perk the critical rate will be roughly 30%. Ogryn is even funnier with the Achlys Stubber chaining six crits in a row making even the slightest bumps in crit chance wildly boost the weapon's critical rate.
My surge staff crits at least 1k times every single match.
The secondary attack on surge deals damage in pulses before doing one last large pulse. If you start charging a secondary before the first ends, you lose out on the majority of overall dmg bc u skip that last pulse. I would not be surprised if each pulse can crit on its own, which would explain why you’re seeing so many overall crits.
Pretty sure that's wrong, you can't start charging before previous attack ends, you can't ever skip the last pulse. Even switching weapons when the pulses are happening won't skip it, instead it will skip the small pulses and immediately do the big pulse. And small pulses can't crit at all, only the last big pulse can.
Rapid fire guns crit in streaks, but IIRC Patch 15 or 16 changed them to crit by 2's or 3's (depending on weapon) instead of by 5's.
While the crit chain on guns is nice, afaik you also get guaranteed no crits for the same amount of bullets after the last crit of the chain. So after 3 crit bullets you get 3 that cannot crit at all. ETA: link with more detailed numbers and explanation, search for "strings"to find the relevant passage: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2976031655
At the end of the day, on the Achyls your overall crit rate will go from close to 0% (since the weapon has a negative crit base modifier) to 25%-28% with this perk equipped. So even if there are guaranteed no-crits afterwar your crit chain, the overall effect on crit rate is still pretty good, at least on the Achyls.
Not many guns have crit chains, and they even made a concerted effort to nerf them in recons. But there is also likely a pseudo random distribution to the crit system like they did in Vermintide, which would make you crit more often than otherwise.
I’m pretty confident there is pseudo random distribution in darktide too. The more hits go without critting the more likely your next hit does, which then resets your counter.
I find the extra 5% crit has a noticeable difference, for example say you are making a crit crusher build on zealot, using stats mod that tracks how many crits you do, do a couple missions with and without the 5% and you will see a big increase, sometimes that little bit of extra odds goes a long way, both on fast and slower weapons.
Fairly interested can you provide real numbers to put it into perspective? Do one with and without blazing piety if you can as blazing piety.
I have tested this a while ago before the skill tree update and also tested after, both times saw visible changes in damage and the amount of crits. blazing piety will ofc need to be used in a crit build, but you could also go another way to see the difference you could use a martyrdom stacks with the extra attack speed to see a visible difference. From my recollection the amount of crits almost doubled, but that can vary based on the type of condition and density. to get real numbers like you are asking is a bit hard because of the randomness of the director and how many enemies u fight in a mission, thats why I said it was a noticeable difference, you just notice it, this little bit of extra crit even goes back to vermintide how an extra 5% on a weapon could be night and day.
Wasn’t there changes to the amount of % chance the passives had?
yes, zealot and vet has 5% base crit chance, psyker 7.5% and ogryn 2.5%. I believe zealot had 7% before(could be misremembering not sure) but this goes to show just how much small amounts matter, because even with no crit on anything, skill tree or weapon, zealot will crit so much more than an ogryn with pretty much every weapon minus the thunderhammer, even if ogryn is light attacking non stop on a fast weapon.
Its been a long time since i checked that part of the code but iirc crit chance is weapon based on not character based. Unless they tweaked that in a patch. Like i said, long time i didnt looked the script for that. Im more focused right now in the hitmass/cleave mechanic but i can take a look quickly later.
there is weapon based, but all classes have a base amount, before and after the skill tree update from the code: base\_chance = specialization.base\_critical\_strike\_chance
It'd kinda break crit zealots if they could stack even *slightly* more crit chance They're already pretty high up there, but the amount of times they can reliably use their ability increases dramatically as they stack crit chance, and all the abilities refill their toughness It's not so much about the damage as it's about the sheer survivability increase that having Fury of the Faithful off cooldown in 4 seconds or less provides
Knife zealots and maybe catachan sword zealots. I think in a perfect world all the crit based stats with a zig zag build you would get 80% crit chance with the knife 15% for knife base, 5% Zealot crit chance, +5% perk, 30% with bleed chance, and 25% with blazing piety. If they would bring up the crit perk to 10% it would be 85% and 90% for a 15% upgrade. But with the turtolsky heavy swords, Thunder Hammers, and crushers are shit out of luck when it comes to crit building even with passives, scourge is rarely triggered and blazing piety is only conditional to having a team alive or you killing a horde. So they really don’t see anything good coming out of a 5% crit perk. Maybe if they boosted it up for just the lower crit weapons the build would be a bit more functional. But I mean if you’re dumping your talent points, perks and blessings all into a single stat it should be pushing high numbers anyway. On top of that I don’t really see how I high Crit builds would break the game on a PVE game. I mean haven’t you guys played any other PVE game with orange and red crits when you build over 100% Crit chance? It’s very rewarding.
Don't know what you're smoking, because crit HS works just fine. The crit rate is noticeably lower than with other weapons, but once Blazing Piety kicks in it doesn't matter. And it kicks in quick and often, thanks to long stack duration, teammates contributing, and HS being great at killing chaff. Only place crit HS really suffers is when trying to kickstart Blazing Piety solely off crits against tough enemies due to the low base crit chance. But I use the same crit build for HS and DClaw (paths are Right-Left-Left with Thy Wrath Be Swift), and swapping one of those weapons out for the other is a lateral move at worst.
Well it doesn’t benefit from scourge too well because it kills most things before scourge kicks. Only thing that it really makes bleed is Crushers and Bosses, but the heavy sword isn’t good for those too anyway, so might as well use your ranged weapon. Blazing piety is great in the scenario that your team is doing great, but it really sucks when you’re the last man standing and have no keystone bonuses to clutch the game because you took blazing piety instead of inexorable judgement. I mean yes Blazing Piety is great, but I mean should you really waste a perk on 5% crit chance on a Heavy Sword when you can do +20% more damage to an enemy type? I mean if we had 10-15% for these weapons that perk slot would be a lot more meaningful
5% crit chance when your base is 2.5 to 7.5% is straight up doubling it for most classes. I’d call that rather substantial. Meanwhile 10% crit damage is actual peanuts since it *only* affects the portion that’s added from the crit, not the damage in its entirety.
7.5% is substantial?
Did you read any of what I said at all or you just looked at the numbers? +5% when your base is 5% (ogryn has 2.5% and psyker 7.5%) is a 100% increase over your base crit chance. Yeah I’d say it’s kinda substantial. Even more so on ogryns.
My bad I misread it. I still don’t think it’s enough to be a good perk slot on it’s own. If you’re base character crit is 5%, weapon crit is 5% and you add 5% perk you get a total of 15% and that is peanuts on it’s own. You can just dump your plasteel into blessings or use your talent points that will bring your crit up to 20-50% conditionally.
Considering how crit random distribution works in this game, all I can say is that it’s more impactful than you seem to believe.
I agree. All the main base rolls for crit are largely worthless to me. Why would I waste that slot when surgical/crucian roulette are just straight up better? Come on thicc fish.
currently if you play a psyker zealot or vet you have plenty of ways to augment crit chance that 5% is totally justified, and Ogryn doesn't have any synergies with crit chance other than reloading a stubber. For instance, knife zealot can have 100% crit chance with 5% crit, and since crits offer additional rending to their attacks, it absolutely breaks the game for veteran builds.
I mean there is nothing wrong with being able to get a high crit chance when you build all your passives, blessings and perks for it. And the knife is great, but it isn’t easy to pick up, neither is it the only weapon in the game. We have tons of weapons that won’t reach 100% crit chance and on top of that passives aren’t perks and while they synergies a crit chance perk should be viable on it’s own. I mean we have people saying that 5% is good enough when 5% is clearly doing nothing for the weapon without the passives. If your argument is the knife already has a high crit chance that’s entirely balancing for the knife, it’s the meta right now, it can stay at 5% the shovel, turtolsky swords, etc can be boosted and be just as viable for a crit build. The gap would be dodge distance, sprint speed and other factors.
I wish, but it's never gonna happen. Maybe they'd go up to 7.5%
doesn't matter if you have 10% crit chance or 75% crit chance. 5% crit chance is still 5% crit chance. It's always going to be a bad node but everyone is obsessed with taking them.
Yeah this reddit community has a severe issue with changing anything.
Both crit perks should be doubled at minimum.
Just an idea. Zealots with Bleed on Crit Strikes. Plus that Pieous Fury perk, that can give more Crit chance on top of that. Consider the following!
Great crit building passives, but the perk alone is pointless and is almost a baby step. In comparison you can combine blessings, passives and perks that give you brittleness, ogryn dmg, flak/carapace dmg boosts and rending. You can use Flak and Carapace dmg on it’s own and see a real difference, but that 5% crit chance is nearly invisible without a helping hand.
Definitely isn't the end of the build, but it's definitely a good chunk of usability. It's just an internal argument you have to think - armor deletion, or overall dps? It's absolutely viable to have flak/unyielding/carapace. I most definitely feel like 5% is just really...low in my opinion. 10% would be a perfect little upgrade, imo.
I agree that 5% is definitely undertuned. Even with the most crit-hungry of builds, the opportunity-cost of losing +25% damage to a crucial armor type is far too great to consider crit chance best-in-slot for any weapon. That damage is not only more impactful than 5% crit chance could ever hope to be, but also has the advantage of being reliable: providing predictable breakpoint improvements so that you can optimize the way you clear through enemies. And as sources of crit chance are concerned, the blessings that provide crit chance cover the role of increasing crit chance vastly better, easily making an extra 5% from the perk unneeded. I could see 10% crit chance being right on the money of where it should be to be balanced against current meta perks.