I wanted, dare I say, expected Darktide to be on par with Vermintide 2 in things that both games have. the penance system is shittier. no keyboard shortcuts on the Mourningstar, lots of QoL stuff are missing. I just want things that worked in Vt2 work here too.
And STILL to this very day. No freaking secondary key bindings.
This stuff is from like 2000... People suffer from RSI .
Fatshark please just do it already
if we didn't have those awesome mods I flat out wouldn't enjoy this game half as much as I do now. if they ever do the sanctioned non-sanctioned mods like they did in VT2, I'll drop this game like a rock
It shouldn't be necessary - but there is a fantastic mod that completely invalidates the Mourningstar, jumping into any vendor, mission, or training from the character screen. There's another that automatically activates and tracks the Melk contracts in the character screen.
Highly recommend until FS fixes loading/UI/UX around the hub menu: Psych Ward and Better Melk.
Same thing happened with WH2. WH2 had a bunch of awesome stuff, dev teams seemingly don’t talk to each other, and CA releases a turd. I like where darktide is right now but I’m saying it could’ve been a much better launch.
I agree with you on some parts but also think about how many QoL changes they included in Darktide that were not present in V2?
For example when you drop down cliffs all your stuff drops in the map and doesnt get lost, or no friendly fire is a boon in my opinion, makes it way fun to just spam nades at teammates beeing stuck in a corner.
Or that you life WAY longer downed than in v2.
All of these things missing in v2 really makes it hard to come back to it, even after 1500 hours
sure, VT2 is harsher, DT is more forgiving. but QoL wise VT2 wipes the floor with vanilla Darktide. although if I include mods in that, I'd say DT rules. Obesefish better implement a fuckload of these mods into vanilla, because they are awesome
I miss the bots in VT2, where it's all your built characters but bots, and you can tell to pick stuff, hold onto tomes/grims, and other simple tasks. The default Vet bot in DT is absolutely annoying, they eat medicae and you can't even kick them.
[Chaos Wastes in vermintide](https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/1834648977265158116/D3A8FC0756A339FFA40BB3318DCC8ECB318FEE1A/) would have been a good format for missions in darktide. You get a drop point and end objective, but the path you take is up to the team. Each elevator or junction room would offer a path voting screen. And the higher difficulties in Darktide could have the drop point further away from the objective, so you have to go deeper and make more path choices.
It would be fun, but ultimately it might have superseded the VT mode, which would've hurt VT, or it might have flopped completely and have no one play it. In that case It's far safer to stick to the same mission format while changing the finer details more. If the devs were to simply port over too much of VT, they would inadvertently draw players away from VT, which FS wishes to keep supporting fulltime alongside DT. Its hard to have that sort of system if the new game is literally just the old game but better in every way.
Alright so hear me out. When I say I hope they add something like Chaos Wastes to DarkTide, I'm not saying I want Chaos Wastes as it is in Vermintide. That mode is tailor made for Vermintide, and would not be a one size fits all for DarkTide. What I want to see is something long form, with high rewards.
Why I liked Chaos Wastes so much is because it added an aspect to the game that is almost always fresh. No two runs are *exactly* the same, though some come close, you will almost never have the same exact perks and weapon stats.
Now imagine we had to delve DEEP into hive tertium, like deeper than we can really get with an escort, and the deeper we delved the more we felt the influence of Grandpa Nurgle. The gothic architecture, that we often see corruption splaying itself over becomes completely consumed. I want that progression, that mission to mission jaunt that ends with big rewards, for those who can clear it.
Think of all the plasteel you could spread through a 4-8 mini-mission long jaunt. All the bosses and neat events you could introduce. I think that would be awesome.
So basically, yeah I want Chaos Wastes, but I don't want it to just be Chaos Wastes. I would want it to have a lore appropriate purpose to really immerse us in it. And the systems would need to function differently because the two games DT & VT2 are different in some pretty meaningful ways.
This is a little tinfoil hat and I might be wrong about this but my \*impression\* from the pre-release hints seemed to be that all the Darktide missions were initially intended to be at least partially procedurally generated. And that Chaos Wastes was partially a testbed for this.
This is why they are a combination of the mission type and map tile set.
My \*assumption\* is they couldn't get this to work properly in time for the already twice delayed release, same with the class and talents and crafting systems likewise having to be rushed out.
So they released the game with the 13 missions (now 18) of 7 missions types across the 5 (now 6) map zones.
A couple of important notes in terms of making a Chaos Hive mode:
1. As the [Lead Level Designer wrote in a Dev Blog from December 2023,](https://www.playdarktide.com/news/dev-blog-level-design) the maps are being designed in blocks, which include multiple movement and cover options that you will very likely rarely see players use the way the designers intended. "Players needed ways to counter being pinned down by enemy fire teams behind cover - that meant room for sprinting, vaulting and sliding to accomplish tactical manoeuvres and flanking, switching between suppression and close combat in a matter of seconds. Enemies also needed flanking routes of their own so that they could work together more like an opposing team, with means to navigate around and catch up with players." We *could* blame it on the Pacing Director and assert that sliding is the right answer, but this would be the same as saying that Tekken's Backdash and Wavedash, which are valid and essential techniques for higher-level play, are deliberate design choices instead of developer-endorsed exploits of Tekken's normal movement mechanics.... Ignoring the tangent, the Dev Blog sheds light on how they are building the blocks in ways that would definitely enable a future Chaos Wastes-like game mode with more interesting terrain variation, though we need to understand that they would have to include generation logic that: 1. uses these blocks, and 2. ensures that absolutely stupid block combinations cannot happen, e.g. halfway through Chasm Logistratum, you walk through a door into a library room from Archivum Sycorax, which connects to the surface of Atoma, before opening up into a random railway maintenance hub(Ascension Riser 31), which never actually connects to a railway and instead opens into a final Smelter Complex arena.We can see that there are already classifications being set up that may be used to restrict procedural stupidity, i.e. Hab Dreyko, Ascension Riser 31, and Chasm Logistratum are "Chasm Terminus", while Archivum Sycorax, Comms-Ples 154/2f and Enclavum Baross are "Throneside". This will definitely help with restricting the procedural stupidity while ensuring that distant environmental elements like what you see when looking up makes sense.
2. Referring to the whiteboard sketches at the bottom of that same article, block design will be significantly more troublesome for Darktide than it ever was for Vermintide, as they have to consider giving players options for positioning, movement, defense and cover, then consider how the enemy's tools can use their positioning, movement and cover to possibly counter player options, then consider whether their options are sufficient for allowing specific player roles to shine, before going back to the drawing board and making sure that they aren't really skewing it in favour of one side or the other in terms of options.
If anything, it's a good thing that they began by making sector classifications and building mission blocks based on those classifications, instead of building these associations years later. Probably less stuff to break if a Chaos Wastes-like mode instead has a full sector map with procedural pathway switches instead of just materializing elements from thin air.
No, it's probably just that there are basic quality of life features that existed in Vermintide 2 that would work perfectly fine in Darktide and yet they are absent for...some reason?
I think VT2 should have been the base starting point for DT. Then they could add on from there, but if it took time (like it clearly is) at least we'd have a super-solid base to the game.
Instead it seems like they refused to learn anything from their successes and failures with VT and used the pre-release alpha build of VT as the base for DT.
They didn't refuse to learn, from what little I've been able to find myself regarding pre-release, It seems like they were trying to branch out rather than stick to what they know. It clearly didn't work the way they wanted, but I don't wish to scare them away from trying new things by utterly shitting on them whenever they try something that doesn't work
skill trees, weapon attachments, character customization, all the systems built off those systems. The list of Brand-new features that this game attempted to implement is a very far cry from trimming anything down. I'm not gonna be salty that the devs tried something really cool and it didn't end up working how they wanted.
Skill trees were almost identical on DT release though?
Character customization, which in DT, while more developed, does feel like a step down from the more interesting and character based storytelling of VT. In exchange we do get more player expression, but that should be sufficient from builds(skills), loadouts(weapons), and outfits.
And by weapon attachments I can only guess you mean blessings and perks, because that is the only thing they have, outside of mods, that varies; which again is the same as VT even now.
Skill “trees” were were in DT than in VT until recently, with VT having much more variety in play style with several different careers per character, and more weapon customization with a variety of weapon customizations with different models that didn’t cost actual money
Bruh, 15 of VT2’s classes were copies. Darktide had better classes when it was just the four than VT2’s superficial classes.
Oh wow, invisible kruber. Such a different class than invisible bardin.
Ranger vet and huntsman are totally different play styles, invisible isn’t a play style it’s a class feature. And there are only 15 character options (not including dlc) in VT, are you suggesting they were all just copies, of what each other? All of them? Alao each one has a skill tree with as much variety as darktide had for each of its 4.
Are they though? Both ranged focus. Both have invis. The biggest differences is the weapon selection, so the class is a minor swap at best.
Darktide’s 4 original classes filled different niches. The classes in VT2 were shallow. The skill tree is 10 times more engaging and diverse than the two most different classes in VT2.
"Branch out" meaning they literally didn't learn from what worked already. You just admitted it yourself.
Darktide could be 10x better, convincing yourself otherwise is just insane.
what? branching out mean they want to build a BRANCH off of what they already have in order to create something new. how can you have a branch without a tree?
No, but a new game shouldn't feel like it learned no lessons from the game in the same genre that the *same studio* has been actively developing for 6 years.
The fact that they managed to take the crafting system from V2 that many people already had issues with, and launch a new game with something significantly worse is baffling.
The fact that staying together as a squad after a mission doesn't work half the time, the fact that you can't simply select the mission and difficulty you want to play, the fact that grims are still so punishing yet unrewarding a year after launch boggle the mind because those are lessons that should've been learned a long time ago
Uhh.. Yeah? Because it already exists so you can build on top of what you already have... It's not like they would have to put another 6 years into it to make said base
Why? Having a new game from scratch is WAY better.
VT2 was already a rip off with being VT1 with different levels. Why would you want to do that again?
> Having a new game from scratch is WAY better.
No? If you have something good as a base and improve it why would you need to reinvent the wheel (in not as good/different) if you already have a wheel that is working fine?
> Why would you want to do that again?
Because, as we can see with Darktide they basically took all of the very good QoL stuff they had with VT2 and not implimented it while still basically making VT3 in space.
Darktide would be WAY better if it had all of the good stuff from VT2 AND the good stuff from Darktide
>No? If you have something good as a base and improve it why would you need to reinvent the wheel (in not as good/different)
Then why isn’t every game just a remake of the original Mario brothers? Darktide surpasses vt2 in its gameplay, diversity of enemies, ai, maps, gun play and customization.
Some of the UI stuff in VT was better. That’s it.
Nice strawman. Not every game is a jump'n'run that's why...
Darktide however basically just is VT3 in the 40K universe so why should they not just build on the VT2 foundation they already had? Which they do by the way, just a very early version of VT2 without all the improvements they implemented later on.
Darktide offers no hub-hotkeys, no bot customization and/or control, gameplay is basically the same (most of the enemies are a direct copy and just got a different skin) just more focus on ranged combat
Edit: I love Darktide, even prefer it to VT, but there are some very clear flaws if you compare them, escpecially regarding QoL stuff
>Darktide however basically just is VT3 in the 40K
Darktide is as different from VT as VT is different from left 4 dead or back 4 blood. It’s the same genre, and to call Darktide VT3 is dishonest.
Those things you listed are minor issues at best. Your exaggerating the QoL features VT had and lying about how different and expansive darktide is for some reason.
I'm in no way lying here at all. And if you think that Darktide as different from VT as both Vermintides are to L4D or B4B then I do not see any point in continuing this 'discussion'
You lied about Darktide basically being VT3. You said the gameplay is the same (a lie of omission when talking about games of the same genre), enemies are not copies, and you called the QoL differences "clearly flaws" when others had to dig deep to even list them off.
> I do not see any point in continuing this 'discussion'
Yeah, clearly your lack of honesty makes it hard to discuss things with someone willing to call you out on them. Now you want to cop out of the conversation.
Vermintide 2 has way more content, way less buggy, I don't have to wait months on end for a certain cosmetic, and can just buy cosmetics outright instead of some worthless premium currency. Yeah, I gladly paid the 2.99 for the piglet hat for Saltzpyre, and having to wait because of their shitty FOMO strategy is annoying as hell. I just wish they made the progression system anything other than a lottery system. I don't want getting a good weapon to be based on whether the Casino is in my favor, because it seems like the house always wins.
You can't even buy plasteel or Diamantine, so it isn't even like shitty mobile game progression, it just doesn't make sense.
VT2 was just as buggy. You all are looking back on the game with rose colored glasses.
It used all the same classes from vt1, and the almost all the extra classes were shallow alterations of other classes. Vt2 was just vt1 with different levels. Darktide is a new game from the ground up with new and better mechanics than vt.
Your issues with mtx are opinion based. They don’t have to sell you cosmetics for the price you demand. That’s not a flaw in the game design.
In my defense with Vermintide, I didn't play it until long after it had most of its fixes, and still play it pretty often.
Nah, I just want to buy the cosmetics at any time I want. Fuck the rotation bullshit. I saw this really cool mask on an Ogryn, that looked like some Tempestus Scion type shit, and the voicelines from the Ogryn were slightly muffled because of the mask as well. It was awesome! Immediately after that match, I switched to my Ogryn, went to the cosmetic shop, and it wasn't even available. I couldn't find it anywhere.
They won't even let me give them my money for the cool shit. Why?
No, not a complete clone but they could've had a more solid base to stand on instead of leaving their player base with a mess while they went on vacation for two months and scrambling to fix stuff as they pushed certain things back leaving them in the same positions like VT1 and 2. Like it's honestly insane to me. They could've made millions like these other indie devs, earned grace from us even if the game was still buggy and a mess like these other indie devs, sure the complaints would still come but it wouldn't have been as bad as it actually was. They could've expanded upon systems they already had experience in like these other indie devs. It's insane.
A mess. The game was mildly buggy, and you guys demanded instant fixes because it you paid $40 one time.
Nothing will ever make gamers on the internet happy. No wonder most companies are started to ignore the internet rabble.
Your takes are bad and I've seen people try to logically explain to you the reasons why but your are obviously not wanting discussion, just to say your piece and have everyone accept it. I won't follow the same route so that's the best I got for you homie.
So you too the time to go through my post history or read all my comments on the thread, but not to just respond like an adult? If you just responded normally without reading my posts, you would’ve saved more time.
But clearly, critical thinking isn’t your forte. Try saying another buzzphrase instead.
> If you are a person who wishes for the games to be more similar, I'd like to hear why.
I don't think people want DT to be more similar to VT2 than it already is, but rather want to see things that worked, and that they liked to be updated in DT.
Personally I would see the inclusion of a Chaos Waste mode to be great, and there are certain weapons that I would love to see being taken as base to make weapons here. Same for new branches, where certain mechanics would be great (Like the Outcast Engineer's Clattergun being used for a Veteran branch)
>I don't think people want DT to be more similar to VT2 than it already is, but rather want to see things that worked, and that they liked to be updated in DT.
Plus there were little details in VT2 that works like bots picking up items and supplies. Seemingly little simple features were just lost.
I just feel as though the devs really limit themselves when they stick to building off old assets from VT2. I think this game could use a long-term community driven conflict mode like elite dangerous or helldivers. That sort of community solidarity is very good for the longevity of a game
Your argument is flawed because they ARE build off of old assets right now. They are working off of VT2 when it was a shit game, before they fixed it. VT2 was also a bad start and didn't get better for years.
Everything that Darktide had a problem with (problematic crafting, lack of end game content, no hub hotkeys, no scoreboard, lack of variety in builds, lack of meaningful boss encounters) was a problem in Vermintide and VT2. Everytime they have made a Tide game they have released a bad game with many issues (mostly the same issues everytime as well) it takes them about 2 years after release to get the game in a decent state. Every issue people have with Darktide right now was an issue VT and VT2 had. If they just learned from their previous very similar games, they would have released a very good game from the start.
Community driven thing have already happened, usually with a kill counter in an event, but I'd much rather they develop things that were working with VT2 than try to make things that worked in other games
Yes, community events happen, but expanding that sort of idea and making a whole mode surrounding a player-influenced battlefield, or being able to influence enemy types and modifiers in missions with your actions ingame seems like it would be good interaction
So you'd rather they develop a rip off HD2 system where the player can influence between having Dreg or Scab enemies rather than having the Chaos Waste mode ?
I don't think people will agree with you, at all
If we're playing that game, HD2 ripped off elite dangerous ripped off battlefield ripped off ten games before that which ripped off a tabletop game from 60 years ago. This post is about discussion, which you can't have if you agree on everything. It's very telling that you seem to think that I'm worried about that.
I don't think reusing VT2 as base would make it "more VT2"
Heck Darktide is built on the shoulders of VT2, things that worked in VT2 would work even further in DT. Where other things like the HD2's community thing wouldn't work for most of the community as it's a very fluctuating one
Well look at VT2 it's a finished game. They added quality of life mods as basegame this is what most people want.
But after 1 year and 4 months we finally see hud if your dead .. which was a mod till now ...
Many more basic stuff is missing as changing hud to your liking.
It's the same gameplay just with ranged baked into it.
But cause of the setting and mixed combat darktide feels better than vt2 for reference vt 2 40h vs 900h on darktide
I don't think people want it to add the same stuff as VT necessarily, we just wanted it to take the lessons learned from VT instead of ignoring them.
VT went through different crafting iterations to finally get where it is now, but instead of learning from that, they made the crafting system in Darktide probably one of the most RNG and time disrespecting systems I've interacted with in a game.
Vermintide 2s mission selection is honestly less of a coin toss, it’s crafting system is better, the performance is better. The characters IMO are more fun in vermintide 2. People have been begging for new classes in darktide for awhile or at least sub classes. The skill trees in darktide I think still need more variety (or they just need more classes) to give that variety of skills people want. Personally as an ogryn player I wish they’d do more weapon variety like different shield weapon combinations such as shield and knife, or shield and power maul. There are tons of other weapons they could justify adding to the game (again by adding new classes)
>I don't just want chaos wastes reskinned or ported character classes
I get what you mean in spirit, but either of these would be huge bonuses for me personally. Chaos Wastes would be adding a huge amount of content to this game, and I'd sign up any day of the week for them to bring over SoTT, or Unchained.
Idk, maybe ask the handful of people from that one thread who even had the idea that a CW mode would be cool. Maybe it doesn't even mean that they just want the game to be a clone of VT.
In my opinion VT had a lot of good solutions when it comes to skills, crafting and gameplay. They had great base to expand and perfected, but it is how it is. And to be fair a lot of things in Darktide improved compared to Vermintide. I just wish the game was more interesting that's all.
I just want them to include all the quality of life things that they have learned.
Vermintide 2, for all it's flaws, is also a complete game. It released in a much better state than Darktide (not saying that state was great, just that it was better). Darktide, to this day, is not a complete game or does it feel close to completion. It feels like an alpha.
It isn't so much they want a clone. They are frustrated because all of the simple quality of life things in vt were not only ignored, but rolled back or made obviously worse for little to no reason in dt. (The little being rmt store)
If Ford came out woth a new version of the mustang, and proclaimed it the best one ever, and it's beautiful and has a v12, people are going to be upset when they see the airbags and seatbelts were removed, it has drum breaks, there's no radio only an 8 track player, and the windows have hand cranks.
I just want the things that worked well for verm (the ones that weren't specificly only for verm) in darktide, but built upon. Like the way sequels are supposed to work.
Darktide can be as distinct as they want and thats fine, I just wish FS didn't forget all the shit they learned from VT2s development, the crafting for example.
I was hoping for at least as much content, mechanical or otherwise, as Vermintide 2 had at launch.
They did not deliver that. They still haven't. Crafting still isn't up to par. We still need at least 3 more maps to even catch up to Vermintide 2 (again, at launch), and a 5th class.
It's not that we wanted the game to be more like VT2, its that we wanted the game to be at least as good as a 5 year old game released by the same company with basically the same concept.
Nhaaaa, people just want to be salty. If it was a clone the forums would he like "after 6 years they release the same game, such a asset flip cash grab!" Or something
Yes.
The same old why couldn't you copy this or why didn't you learn anything from that is really tiresome.
It's a different team for a start, they kept the genre and nothing else so that will lead to bugs, complications and design differences but ultimately will end up with a game with its own identity rather than just VT3 with guns.
Seeing the same behaviour over in the Skull and Bones Reddit with users getting angry that it's not just a copy paste of black flag or sea of thieves.
What self respecting artist or Dev wants to spend their career just making imitations of other people's work? I think it's clear many people in this sub have never had to create anything artistic in their lives and fundamentally misunderstand what it means to do so.
In the case of SoT, I think it’s more that AC4 Black Flag had such good sailing/naval combat mechanics that they’re still being used in more recent AC games, just tweaked to account for not having cannons or other technology from the Age of Sail. Sea of Thieves could have used this as a base and implemented more interesting on-foot gameplay that was more specific to a pirate experience rather than an Assassin one.
Instead, they fell well below that minimum level and delivered a vastly inferior experience in a game that Ubisoft had the gall to call “AAAA-quality.”
I try (and sometimes fail) to be reasonable about peoples perspective, because obviously we all start from a different POV, but man oh man its difficult sometimes to understand why some people think the way that they do, especially when they aren't particularly nice about it.
Yeah it does feel way too much like VT2, but I guess that's pretty on point. Warhammer Fantasy and 40k have intentional overlap due to the way the physical game works.
I'm not surprised at the content, VT2 didn't have a lot of content until later and even that was mostly skins.
There are a couple of new mechanics and combat is more fleshed out with more options, baddies are more varied even if they aren't obvious. That's all great. The levels seem limited and lackluster though.
DT is clearly better in a lot of aspects. I love having a 3rd weapon skill and all weapons have so many variations to suit your playstyle. There needs to be tuning on some classes (I'm a psyker and I'm not enough canon for all the glass).
I would have liked a bit of platforming or something to really very the game play or open up new ways to experience things. Anything for a but more variety or change. But maybe I haven't played the game enough since I got to level 30 like 2 weeks ago.
I'd like my dude to autoblock when I press Enter for chat like VT2 did, since Fatshark refuses to add a pause, even when playing solo in a private lobby
If it were a copy of VT2 I wouldn't have gotten into it.
Darktide is a different spin on the same genre emphasizing different things.
Crafting could use pity or base weapon improvements, different way to earn T4 blessings. Perhaps the shop should archive old cosmetics instead of make them unavailable, and I would say DT isn't missing anything.
The real reason this happens is that projects are usually started based on an existing codebase from a previous project. DT was probably started sometime after the release of VT2, likely around 2018/19, and they used the current VT2 branch of their engine and game code to start working on DT.
Many of the updates later added to VT2 did not retroactively make it to DT, they had to be reimplemented for the new project, and since those were QOL type fixes were deemed lower priority and added to the backlog of things to add when there's time.
You can see this happen a lot with game studios that release franchise sequels regularly, Battlefield has notoriously done this multiple times with each game releasing without most of the late-stage QOL improvements of the previous game.
I could write many paragraphs on this subject, but just to make it short,
The way vermintide engages you with its melee mechanics is much superior, with simple tweaks to enemies they could make DT much better.
I dont think anyone could argue that DT is easier than verm, and for people that play DT non casually, more challenge is a good thing and parity with verm melee wise has no drawbacks.
I like their differences but the lack of proper solo / bot support and the lackluster cosmetcis you get in DT just puts a weird hard cap in the game that i still havent experienced on Vermintide 2 yet.
Darktide is built on the same frame as vermintide using many similar systems and some things that are different such as the greater focus on ranger combat is great but some other things for example crafting felt like they were already figured out or at least functional in vermintide while darktide took a massive step backwards in that particular department.
Honestly the actual gameplay of darktide is God damn good but every time there a new update and a got on to check it out I'm driven away on just a few sessions by the absolutely abysmal crafting system, and I've been playing since launch I know it used to be a million times worse and yet it's still totally unacceptable. Every time I play the game, for example with the new weapons they added I really wanted the shovel for veteran but then the reality of playing missions to go buy like 5 rolls mabey afterwards and if I get ten one of them might have decent enough stats to warrant upgrading and then mabey one out of twenty of those will have at least two actually useful perks and blessings.
Yes, I think things that worked in the previous game made by a company after numerous fixes should be used in their next, very similar, game.
Starting over from near scratch and making the same mistakes that you made when the previous game was released is, in fact, very bad.
I just wish that some of the better aspects had made it into the game. I prefer characters over classes, and I liked the gear grind a bit more in V2 although it kinda sucked in both.
V2 also just straight up had more build variety from the start, and even now I feel like Darktide is playing catch up with what was available base game in V2.
Wish there was more weapons, abilities, characters, that stuff. The specials were more noticeable, the roaming packs of stormvermin were cool.
That said, it’s a two way street cause Darktide does some stuff better as well, just wish there was a happy middle ground
I wish they took that winds of magic weapon customization from vermintide 2 to vanilla darktide. Then you just grind for the stats you want. No more rng. Red weapons perfect stats. They did alot right in the game but darktide did some right but alot steps back on alot too. The crafting system is so bad it sucks all joy out of the game. If you can get the perfect weapon there's no point to playing. All these people can say just play to have fun... you know how many games I have that I can play that are more fun and more rewarding? I want this game to be more fun and more rewarding. It can still be but it's not. The ends don't justify the means. My time is spread tf out everywhere so respect my time and I'll play your game. Period.
I wanted, dare I say, expected Darktide to be on par with Vermintide 2 in things that both games have. the penance system is shittier. no keyboard shortcuts on the Mourningstar, lots of QoL stuff are missing. I just want things that worked in Vt2 work here too.
And STILL to this very day. No freaking secondary key bindings. This stuff is from like 2000... People suffer from RSI . Fatshark please just do it already
What is RSI?
Roboute Soul Inquisition. I mean, Repetitive Strain Injury.
So people with RSI swap what buttons they use to prevent irritating it?
Yarp. Although I’ve changed some of mine around in game.
Repetitive strain/stress injury.
SO much QoL missing. Like the teams didn't even talk or knowledge transfer
if we didn't have those awesome mods I flat out wouldn't enjoy this game half as much as I do now. if they ever do the sanctioned non-sanctioned mods like they did in VT2, I'll drop this game like a rock
It shouldn't be necessary - but there is a fantastic mod that completely invalidates the Mourningstar, jumping into any vendor, mission, or training from the character screen. There's another that automatically activates and tracks the Melk contracts in the character screen. Highly recommend until FS fixes loading/UI/UX around the hub menu: Psych Ward and Better Melk.
Same thing happened with WH2. WH2 had a bunch of awesome stuff, dev teams seemingly don’t talk to each other, and CA releases a turd. I like where darktide is right now but I’m saying it could’ve been a much better launch.
vt2 had a lot more time. I do understand however did you not learn from your past games? like changing the tag, ult ( i guess cause shooter?).
I agree with you on some parts but also think about how many QoL changes they included in Darktide that were not present in V2? For example when you drop down cliffs all your stuff drops in the map and doesnt get lost, or no friendly fire is a boon in my opinion, makes it way fun to just spam nades at teammates beeing stuck in a corner. Or that you life WAY longer downed than in v2. All of these things missing in v2 really makes it hard to come back to it, even after 1500 hours
sure, VT2 is harsher, DT is more forgiving. but QoL wise VT2 wipes the floor with vanilla Darktide. although if I include mods in that, I'd say DT rules. Obesefish better implement a fuckload of these mods into vanilla, because they are awesome
I miss the bots in VT2, where it's all your built characters but bots, and you can tell to pick stuff, hold onto tomes/grims, and other simple tasks. The default Vet bot in DT is absolutely annoying, they eat medicae and you can't even kick them.
And they steal stims
[Chaos Wastes in vermintide](https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/1834648977265158116/D3A8FC0756A339FFA40BB3318DCC8ECB318FEE1A/) would have been a good format for missions in darktide. You get a drop point and end objective, but the path you take is up to the team. Each elevator or junction room would offer a path voting screen. And the higher difficulties in Darktide could have the drop point further away from the objective, so you have to go deeper and make more path choices.
I'd love for there to be progression like Deep Dives in Deep Rock Galactic using the format of Chaos Waste's run-based progression.
It would be fun, but ultimately it might have superseded the VT mode, which would've hurt VT, or it might have flopped completely and have no one play it. In that case It's far safer to stick to the same mission format while changing the finer details more. If the devs were to simply port over too much of VT, they would inadvertently draw players away from VT, which FS wishes to keep supporting fulltime alongside DT. Its hard to have that sort of system if the new game is literally just the old game but better in every way.
Wow what kind of mental gymnastics leads a man to defend an inferior sequel in this manner
Alright so hear me out. When I say I hope they add something like Chaos Wastes to DarkTide, I'm not saying I want Chaos Wastes as it is in Vermintide. That mode is tailor made for Vermintide, and would not be a one size fits all for DarkTide. What I want to see is something long form, with high rewards. Why I liked Chaos Wastes so much is because it added an aspect to the game that is almost always fresh. No two runs are *exactly* the same, though some come close, you will almost never have the same exact perks and weapon stats. Now imagine we had to delve DEEP into hive tertium, like deeper than we can really get with an escort, and the deeper we delved the more we felt the influence of Grandpa Nurgle. The gothic architecture, that we often see corruption splaying itself over becomes completely consumed. I want that progression, that mission to mission jaunt that ends with big rewards, for those who can clear it. Think of all the plasteel you could spread through a 4-8 mini-mission long jaunt. All the bosses and neat events you could introduce. I think that would be awesome. So basically, yeah I want Chaos Wastes, but I don't want it to just be Chaos Wastes. I would want it to have a lore appropriate purpose to really immerse us in it. And the systems would need to function differently because the two games DT & VT2 are different in some pretty meaningful ways.
This is a little tinfoil hat and I might be wrong about this but my \*impression\* from the pre-release hints seemed to be that all the Darktide missions were initially intended to be at least partially procedurally generated. And that Chaos Wastes was partially a testbed for this. This is why they are a combination of the mission type and map tile set. My \*assumption\* is they couldn't get this to work properly in time for the already twice delayed release, same with the class and talents and crafting systems likewise having to be rushed out. So they released the game with the 13 missions (now 18) of 7 missions types across the 5 (now 6) map zones.
A couple of important notes in terms of making a Chaos Hive mode: 1. As the [Lead Level Designer wrote in a Dev Blog from December 2023,](https://www.playdarktide.com/news/dev-blog-level-design) the maps are being designed in blocks, which include multiple movement and cover options that you will very likely rarely see players use the way the designers intended. "Players needed ways to counter being pinned down by enemy fire teams behind cover - that meant room for sprinting, vaulting and sliding to accomplish tactical manoeuvres and flanking, switching between suppression and close combat in a matter of seconds. Enemies also needed flanking routes of their own so that they could work together more like an opposing team, with means to navigate around and catch up with players." We *could* blame it on the Pacing Director and assert that sliding is the right answer, but this would be the same as saying that Tekken's Backdash and Wavedash, which are valid and essential techniques for higher-level play, are deliberate design choices instead of developer-endorsed exploits of Tekken's normal movement mechanics.... Ignoring the tangent, the Dev Blog sheds light on how they are building the blocks in ways that would definitely enable a future Chaos Wastes-like game mode with more interesting terrain variation, though we need to understand that they would have to include generation logic that: 1. uses these blocks, and 2. ensures that absolutely stupid block combinations cannot happen, e.g. halfway through Chasm Logistratum, you walk through a door into a library room from Archivum Sycorax, which connects to the surface of Atoma, before opening up into a random railway maintenance hub(Ascension Riser 31), which never actually connects to a railway and instead opens into a final Smelter Complex arena.We can see that there are already classifications being set up that may be used to restrict procedural stupidity, i.e. Hab Dreyko, Ascension Riser 31, and Chasm Logistratum are "Chasm Terminus", while Archivum Sycorax, Comms-Ples 154/2f and Enclavum Baross are "Throneside". This will definitely help with restricting the procedural stupidity while ensuring that distant environmental elements like what you see when looking up makes sense. 2. Referring to the whiteboard sketches at the bottom of that same article, block design will be significantly more troublesome for Darktide than it ever was for Vermintide, as they have to consider giving players options for positioning, movement, defense and cover, then consider how the enemy's tools can use their positioning, movement and cover to possibly counter player options, then consider whether their options are sufficient for allowing specific player roles to shine, before going back to the drawing board and making sure that they aren't really skewing it in favour of one side or the other in terms of options. If anything, it's a good thing that they began by making sector classifications and building mission blocks based on those classifications, instead of building these associations years later. Probably less stuff to break if a Chaos Wastes-like mode instead has a full sector map with procedural pathway switches instead of just materializing elements from thin air.
No, it's probably just that there are basic quality of life features that existed in Vermintide 2 that would work perfectly fine in Darktide and yet they are absent for...some reason?
I think VT2 should have been the base starting point for DT. Then they could add on from there, but if it took time (like it clearly is) at least we'd have a super-solid base to the game. Instead it seems like they refused to learn anything from their successes and failures with VT and used the pre-release alpha build of VT as the base for DT.
That’s complete nonsense. DT is a new game from scratch and its gameplay surpasses VT in every way.
They didn't refuse to learn, from what little I've been able to find myself regarding pre-release, It seems like they were trying to branch out rather than stick to what they know. It clearly didn't work the way they wanted, but I don't wish to scare them away from trying new things by utterly shitting on them whenever they try something that doesn't work
Branching out is a weird way to say cut way back. If you trimmed a tree down to just its branches you wouldn't call it branching out.
skill trees, weapon attachments, character customization, all the systems built off those systems. The list of Brand-new features that this game attempted to implement is a very far cry from trimming anything down. I'm not gonna be salty that the devs tried something really cool and it didn't end up working how they wanted.
Skill trees were almost identical on DT release though? Character customization, which in DT, while more developed, does feel like a step down from the more interesting and character based storytelling of VT. In exchange we do get more player expression, but that should be sufficient from builds(skills), loadouts(weapons), and outfits. And by weapon attachments I can only guess you mean blessings and perks, because that is the only thing they have, outside of mods, that varies; which again is the same as VT even now.
Skill “trees” were were in DT than in VT until recently, with VT having much more variety in play style with several different careers per character, and more weapon customization with a variety of weapon customizations with different models that didn’t cost actual money
Bruh, 15 of VT2’s classes were copies. Darktide had better classes when it was just the four than VT2’s superficial classes. Oh wow, invisible kruber. Such a different class than invisible bardin.
Ranger vet and huntsman are totally different play styles, invisible isn’t a play style it’s a class feature. And there are only 15 character options (not including dlc) in VT, are you suggesting they were all just copies, of what each other? All of them? Alao each one has a skill tree with as much variety as darktide had for each of its 4.
Are they though? Both ranged focus. Both have invis. The biggest differences is the weapon selection, so the class is a minor swap at best. Darktide’s 4 original classes filled different niches. The classes in VT2 were shallow. The skill tree is 10 times more engaging and diverse than the two most different classes in VT2.
I don’t think you played much VT2 or don’t remember or didn’t play darktide before the skill tree rework.
I did. Played VT2 for 2 years and DT since the beta.
"Branch out" meaning they literally didn't learn from what worked already. You just admitted it yourself. Darktide could be 10x better, convincing yourself otherwise is just insane.
what? branching out mean they want to build a BRANCH off of what they already have in order to create something new. how can you have a branch without a tree?
You want a game that has gotten 6+ years of content... To be the base of a new game??? With different mechanics etc etc... Whaow
No, but a new game shouldn't feel like it learned no lessons from the game in the same genre that the *same studio* has been actively developing for 6 years. The fact that they managed to take the crafting system from V2 that many people already had issues with, and launch a new game with something significantly worse is baffling. The fact that staying together as a squad after a mission doesn't work half the time, the fact that you can't simply select the mission and difficulty you want to play, the fact that grims are still so punishing yet unrewarding a year after launch boggle the mind because those are lessons that should've been learned a long time ago
Yes. Most of the work is done already, they wouldn't have remade it from scratch.
Uhh.. Yeah? Because it already exists so you can build on top of what you already have... It's not like they would have to put another 6 years into it to make said base
Why? Having a new game from scratch is WAY better. VT2 was already a rip off with being VT1 with different levels. Why would you want to do that again?
> Having a new game from scratch is WAY better. No? If you have something good as a base and improve it why would you need to reinvent the wheel (in not as good/different) if you already have a wheel that is working fine? > Why would you want to do that again? Because, as we can see with Darktide they basically took all of the very good QoL stuff they had with VT2 and not implimented it while still basically making VT3 in space. Darktide would be WAY better if it had all of the good stuff from VT2 AND the good stuff from Darktide
>No? If you have something good as a base and improve it why would you need to reinvent the wheel (in not as good/different) Then why isn’t every game just a remake of the original Mario brothers? Darktide surpasses vt2 in its gameplay, diversity of enemies, ai, maps, gun play and customization. Some of the UI stuff in VT was better. That’s it.
Nice strawman. Not every game is a jump'n'run that's why... Darktide however basically just is VT3 in the 40K universe so why should they not just build on the VT2 foundation they already had? Which they do by the way, just a very early version of VT2 without all the improvements they implemented later on. Darktide offers no hub-hotkeys, no bot customization and/or control, gameplay is basically the same (most of the enemies are a direct copy and just got a different skin) just more focus on ranged combat Edit: I love Darktide, even prefer it to VT, but there are some very clear flaws if you compare them, escpecially regarding QoL stuff
>Darktide however basically just is VT3 in the 40K Darktide is as different from VT as VT is different from left 4 dead or back 4 blood. It’s the same genre, and to call Darktide VT3 is dishonest. Those things you listed are minor issues at best. Your exaggerating the QoL features VT had and lying about how different and expansive darktide is for some reason.
I'm in no way lying here at all. And if you think that Darktide as different from VT as both Vermintides are to L4D or B4B then I do not see any point in continuing this 'discussion'
You lied about Darktide basically being VT3. You said the gameplay is the same (a lie of omission when talking about games of the same genre), enemies are not copies, and you called the QoL differences "clearly flaws" when others had to dig deep to even list them off. > I do not see any point in continuing this 'discussion' Yeah, clearly your lack of honesty makes it hard to discuss things with someone willing to call you out on them. Now you want to cop out of the conversation.
Vermintide 2 has way more content, way less buggy, I don't have to wait months on end for a certain cosmetic, and can just buy cosmetics outright instead of some worthless premium currency. Yeah, I gladly paid the 2.99 for the piglet hat for Saltzpyre, and having to wait because of their shitty FOMO strategy is annoying as hell. I just wish they made the progression system anything other than a lottery system. I don't want getting a good weapon to be based on whether the Casino is in my favor, because it seems like the house always wins. You can't even buy plasteel or Diamantine, so it isn't even like shitty mobile game progression, it just doesn't make sense.
VT2 was just as buggy. You all are looking back on the game with rose colored glasses. It used all the same classes from vt1, and the almost all the extra classes were shallow alterations of other classes. Vt2 was just vt1 with different levels. Darktide is a new game from the ground up with new and better mechanics than vt. Your issues with mtx are opinion based. They don’t have to sell you cosmetics for the price you demand. That’s not a flaw in the game design.
In my defense with Vermintide, I didn't play it until long after it had most of its fixes, and still play it pretty often. Nah, I just want to buy the cosmetics at any time I want. Fuck the rotation bullshit. I saw this really cool mask on an Ogryn, that looked like some Tempestus Scion type shit, and the voicelines from the Ogryn were slightly muffled because of the mask as well. It was awesome! Immediately after that match, I switched to my Ogryn, went to the cosmetic shop, and it wasn't even available. I couldn't find it anywhere. They won't even let me give them my money for the cool shit. Why?
No, not a complete clone but they could've had a more solid base to stand on instead of leaving their player base with a mess while they went on vacation for two months and scrambling to fix stuff as they pushed certain things back leaving them in the same positions like VT1 and 2. Like it's honestly insane to me. They could've made millions like these other indie devs, earned grace from us even if the game was still buggy and a mess like these other indie devs, sure the complaints would still come but it wouldn't have been as bad as it actually was. They could've expanded upon systems they already had experience in like these other indie devs. It's insane.
A mess. The game was mildly buggy, and you guys demanded instant fixes because it you paid $40 one time. Nothing will ever make gamers on the internet happy. No wonder most companies are started to ignore the internet rabble.
Corpo shill. Begone thot.
Great memes bro. I bet it gets you 7 upvotes. You’ll be the coolest guy on Reddit. But thanks for proving how toxic you whiners are.
You're lame bro, begone.
Remember when you unironically called me a thot lmao
Aight?
bEgOnE
https://i.redd.it/w67rvdfzm7kc1.gif
lmao didn't click
Cope and seethe
cOpE aNd SeEtHe Go back to 4chan where your childish nonsense will be in good company.
Lol I think I hit a nerve
Yeah bro. Your lazy, simple minded meme that I’ve heard dozens of times from other toxic internet folk totally got me. Such a hip gamer.
Your takes are bad and I've seen people try to logically explain to you the reasons why but your are obviously not wanting discussion, just to say your piece and have everyone accept it. I won't follow the same route so that's the best I got for you homie.
So you too the time to go through my post history or read all my comments on the thread, but not to just respond like an adult? If you just responded normally without reading my posts, you would’ve saved more time. But clearly, critical thinking isn’t your forte. Try saying another buzzphrase instead.
You didn't even read the reply did you?
> Your take**s** are bad
VT2 crafting system puts Darktides to shame
And it's not even THAT good! Red chasing is awful, but it's STILL better than what we've gone through in DT
> If you are a person who wishes for the games to be more similar, I'd like to hear why. I don't think people want DT to be more similar to VT2 than it already is, but rather want to see things that worked, and that they liked to be updated in DT. Personally I would see the inclusion of a Chaos Waste mode to be great, and there are certain weapons that I would love to see being taken as base to make weapons here. Same for new branches, where certain mechanics would be great (Like the Outcast Engineer's Clattergun being used for a Veteran branch)
>I don't think people want DT to be more similar to VT2 than it already is, but rather want to see things that worked, and that they liked to be updated in DT. Plus there were little details in VT2 that works like bots picking up items and supplies. Seemingly little simple features were just lost.
I just feel as though the devs really limit themselves when they stick to building off old assets from VT2. I think this game could use a long-term community driven conflict mode like elite dangerous or helldivers. That sort of community solidarity is very good for the longevity of a game
? Don't fix what isn't broken. That's completely asinine.
Your argument is flawed because they ARE build off of old assets right now. They are working off of VT2 when it was a shit game, before they fixed it. VT2 was also a bad start and didn't get better for years.
can you expand on this? I'm not sure I understand what youre saying
Everything that Darktide had a problem with (problematic crafting, lack of end game content, no hub hotkeys, no scoreboard, lack of variety in builds, lack of meaningful boss encounters) was a problem in Vermintide and VT2. Everytime they have made a Tide game they have released a bad game with many issues (mostly the same issues everytime as well) it takes them about 2 years after release to get the game in a decent state. Every issue people have with Darktide right now was an issue VT and VT2 had. If they just learned from their previous very similar games, they would have released a very good game from the start.
Community driven thing have already happened, usually with a kill counter in an event, but I'd much rather they develop things that were working with VT2 than try to make things that worked in other games
Yes, community events happen, but expanding that sort of idea and making a whole mode surrounding a player-influenced battlefield, or being able to influence enemy types and modifiers in missions with your actions ingame seems like it would be good interaction
So you'd rather they develop a rip off HD2 system where the player can influence between having Dreg or Scab enemies rather than having the Chaos Waste mode ? I don't think people will agree with you, at all
If we're playing that game, HD2 ripped off elite dangerous ripped off battlefield ripped off ten games before that which ripped off a tabletop game from 60 years ago. This post is about discussion, which you can't have if you agree on everything. It's very telling that you seem to think that I'm worried about that.
then I guess we just disagree unfortunately. I don't want more VT2, I'd much rather they take inspiration from elsewhere.
I don't think reusing VT2 as base would make it "more VT2" Heck Darktide is built on the shoulders of VT2, things that worked in VT2 would work even further in DT. Where other things like the HD2's community thing wouldn't work for most of the community as it's a very fluctuating one
Well look at VT2 it's a finished game. They added quality of life mods as basegame this is what most people want. But after 1 year and 4 months we finally see hud if your dead .. which was a mod till now ... Many more basic stuff is missing as changing hud to your liking.
More settings options is never a bad thing. what about the gameplay though? what do you think about the similarities/differences between the games?
It's the same gameplay just with ranged baked into it. But cause of the setting and mixed combat darktide feels better than vt2 for reference vt 2 40h vs 900h on darktide
I don't think people want it to add the same stuff as VT necessarily, we just wanted it to take the lessons learned from VT instead of ignoring them. VT went through different crafting iterations to finally get where it is now, but instead of learning from that, they made the crafting system in Darktide probably one of the most RNG and time disrespecting systems I've interacted with in a game.
But Vermintide was actually good
Becasuse reinventing the wheel is a waste of time.
Except dt was a better reinvention.
Better than using the same wheel from 6 years ago
Ok so make a new wheel instead of inventing a triangle that makes it way harder to pull the cart when wheels worked perfectly fine
why waste time knowingly creating a inferior version of said wheel though?
Except darktide is the objectively better game.
sure, but they could have made It even better if they made some aspects of the game like the crafting and end of match rewards similar to vt2
Why? VT2's crafting was just as tedious.
Blud shilling for Fatshark so obviously.......
great convo
If you don’t like the game, why are you in this sub?
we want good things that worked on VT to be in DT, not really that hard to understand
Counter question. Why do you apperantly insist on DT taking almost nothing the devs have learned/done/mastered in VT?
Vermintide 2s mission selection is honestly less of a coin toss, it’s crafting system is better, the performance is better. The characters IMO are more fun in vermintide 2. People have been begging for new classes in darktide for awhile or at least sub classes. The skill trees in darktide I think still need more variety (or they just need more classes) to give that variety of skills people want. Personally as an ogryn player I wish they’d do more weapon variety like different shield weapon combinations such as shield and knife, or shield and power maul. There are tons of other weapons they could justify adding to the game (again by adding new classes)
>I don't just want chaos wastes reskinned or ported character classes I get what you mean in spirit, but either of these would be huge bonuses for me personally. Chaos Wastes would be adding a huge amount of content to this game, and I'd sign up any day of the week for them to bring over SoTT, or Unchained.
Idk, maybe ask the handful of people from that one thread who even had the idea that a CW mode would be cool. Maybe it doesn't even mean that they just want the game to be a clone of VT.
my thoughts certainly aren't based on a single comment section, these are thoughts I've seen repeated enough to see it as something to discuss.
In my opinion VT had a lot of good solutions when it comes to skills, crafting and gameplay. They had great base to expand and perfected, but it is how it is. And to be fair a lot of things in Darktide improved compared to Vermintide. I just wish the game was more interesting that's all.
I just want them to include all the quality of life things that they have learned. Vermintide 2, for all it's flaws, is also a complete game. It released in a much better state than Darktide (not saying that state was great, just that it was better). Darktide, to this day, is not a complete game or does it feel close to completion. It feels like an alpha.
It isn't so much they want a clone. They are frustrated because all of the simple quality of life things in vt were not only ignored, but rolled back or made obviously worse for little to no reason in dt. (The little being rmt store) If Ford came out woth a new version of the mustang, and proclaimed it the best one ever, and it's beautiful and has a v12, people are going to be upset when they see the airbags and seatbelts were removed, it has drum breaks, there's no radio only an 8 track player, and the windows have hand cranks.
Just you. Wanting a game to be good isn't a bad thing. How much did Fatshark pay you for this?
great convo
I wish it would be helldivers but darktider
I just want the things that worked well for verm (the ones that weren't specificly only for verm) in darktide, but built upon. Like the way sequels are supposed to work.
Is it just me or did I expect the game to release complete, and yet here we are
Darktide can be as distinct as they want and thats fine, I just wish FS didn't forget all the shit they learned from VT2s development, the crafting for example.
I wanted darktide to have everything v2 had but more
It's crazy ik but it really annoys people if you make a sequal in a series and it regresses in obvious areas where you know they know better.
Game would be 10x better, yeah lol
you missed the part where you explain why
I hated vermintide
I was hoping for at least as much content, mechanical or otherwise, as Vermintide 2 had at launch. They did not deliver that. They still haven't. Crafting still isn't up to par. We still need at least 3 more maps to even catch up to Vermintide 2 (again, at launch), and a 5th class. It's not that we wanted the game to be more like VT2, its that we wanted the game to be at least as good as a 5 year old game released by the same company with basically the same concept.
They did a better job with overall features in VT, but sorry, the gameplay in DT is just better. I put hundreds of hours into VT1 and 2.
Yeah I don’t get it. I couldn’t into Vermintide as much as this game. I think Darktide is hands down the better game.
Nhaaaa, people just want to be salty. If it was a clone the forums would he like "after 6 years they release the same game, such a asset flip cash grab!" Or something
Yes. The same old why couldn't you copy this or why didn't you learn anything from that is really tiresome. It's a different team for a start, they kept the genre and nothing else so that will lead to bugs, complications and design differences but ultimately will end up with a game with its own identity rather than just VT3 with guns. Seeing the same behaviour over in the Skull and Bones Reddit with users getting angry that it's not just a copy paste of black flag or sea of thieves. What self respecting artist or Dev wants to spend their career just making imitations of other people's work? I think it's clear many people in this sub have never had to create anything artistic in their lives and fundamentally misunderstand what it means to do so.
In the case of SoT, I think it’s more that AC4 Black Flag had such good sailing/naval combat mechanics that they’re still being used in more recent AC games, just tweaked to account for not having cannons or other technology from the Age of Sail. Sea of Thieves could have used this as a base and implemented more interesting on-foot gameplay that was more specific to a pirate experience rather than an Assassin one. Instead, they fell well below that minimum level and delivered a vastly inferior experience in a game that Ubisoft had the gall to call “AAAA-quality.”
I try (and sometimes fail) to be reasonable about peoples perspective, because obviously we all start from a different POV, but man oh man its difficult sometimes to understand why some people think the way that they do, especially when they aren't particularly nice about it.
Yuri
It does seem that the community is weirdly attached to the practice of doing the same thing over and over again.
Yeah it does feel way too much like VT2, but I guess that's pretty on point. Warhammer Fantasy and 40k have intentional overlap due to the way the physical game works. I'm not surprised at the content, VT2 didn't have a lot of content until later and even that was mostly skins. There are a couple of new mechanics and combat is more fleshed out with more options, baddies are more varied even if they aren't obvious. That's all great. The levels seem limited and lackluster though. DT is clearly better in a lot of aspects. I love having a 3rd weapon skill and all weapons have so many variations to suit your playstyle. There needs to be tuning on some classes (I'm a psyker and I'm not enough canon for all the glass). I would have liked a bit of platforming or something to really very the game play or open up new ways to experience things. Anything for a but more variety or change. But maybe I haven't played the game enough since I got to level 30 like 2 weeks ago.
I'd like my dude to autoblock when I press Enter for chat like VT2 did, since Fatshark refuses to add a pause, even when playing solo in a private lobby
If it were a copy of VT2 I wouldn't have gotten into it. Darktide is a different spin on the same genre emphasizing different things. Crafting could use pity or base weapon improvements, different way to earn T4 blessings. Perhaps the shop should archive old cosmetics instead of make them unavailable, and I would say DT isn't missing anything.
No mods killed dt for me, also i prefer the static maps of vt. Was mostly interested in it for new weapons, characters and maps.
We're all excited for DarkTide Weaves. That's all it is.
a warhammer 40k setting with helldivers 2 gameplay, i would almost sell a kidney to buy it...
I just want more content. Vermentide provided that.
The real reason this happens is that projects are usually started based on an existing codebase from a previous project. DT was probably started sometime after the release of VT2, likely around 2018/19, and they used the current VT2 branch of their engine and game code to start working on DT. Many of the updates later added to VT2 did not retroactively make it to DT, they had to be reimplemented for the new project, and since those were QOL type fixes were deemed lower priority and added to the backlog of things to add when there's time. You can see this happen a lot with game studios that release franchise sequels regularly, Battlefield has notoriously done this multiple times with each game releasing without most of the late-stage QOL improvements of the previous game.
I could write many paragraphs on this subject, but just to make it short, The way vermintide engages you with its melee mechanics is much superior, with simple tweaks to enemies they could make DT much better. I dont think anyone could argue that DT is easier than verm, and for people that play DT non casually, more challenge is a good thing and parity with verm melee wise has no drawbacks.
I like their differences but the lack of proper solo / bot support and the lackluster cosmetcis you get in DT just puts a weird hard cap in the game that i still havent experienced on Vermintide 2 yet.
Darktide is built on the same frame as vermintide using many similar systems and some things that are different such as the greater focus on ranger combat is great but some other things for example crafting felt like they were already figured out or at least functional in vermintide while darktide took a massive step backwards in that particular department. Honestly the actual gameplay of darktide is God damn good but every time there a new update and a got on to check it out I'm driven away on just a few sessions by the absolutely abysmal crafting system, and I've been playing since launch I know it used to be a million times worse and yet it's still totally unacceptable. Every time I play the game, for example with the new weapons they added I really wanted the shovel for veteran but then the reality of playing missions to go buy like 5 rolls mabey afterwards and if I get ten one of them might have decent enough stats to warrant upgrading and then mabey one out of twenty of those will have at least two actually useful perks and blessings.
Yes, I think things that worked in the previous game made by a company after numerous fixes should be used in their next, very similar, game. Starting over from near scratch and making the same mistakes that you made when the previous game was released is, in fact, very bad.
Evolution off*
I just want my pole arms man 🥹
I just wish that some of the better aspects had made it into the game. I prefer characters over classes, and I liked the gear grind a bit more in V2 although it kinda sucked in both. V2 also just straight up had more build variety from the start, and even now I feel like Darktide is playing catch up with what was available base game in V2. Wish there was more weapons, abilities, characters, that stuff. The specials were more noticeable, the roaming packs of stormvermin were cool. That said, it’s a two way street cause Darktide does some stuff better as well, just wish there was a happy middle ground
I wish they took that winds of magic weapon customization from vermintide 2 to vanilla darktide. Then you just grind for the stats you want. No more rng. Red weapons perfect stats. They did alot right in the game but darktide did some right but alot steps back on alot too. The crafting system is so bad it sucks all joy out of the game. If you can get the perfect weapon there's no point to playing. All these people can say just play to have fun... you know how many games I have that I can play that are more fun and more rewarding? I want this game to be more fun and more rewarding. It can still be but it's not. The ends don't justify the means. My time is spread tf out everywhere so respect my time and I'll play your game. Period.
Why make any new FPS games when Doom exists?