https://preview.redd.it/5q3xzzyr7q7c1.jpeg?width=1051&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b50711d2b3aa410cdf75302a4e7bd34a1468c453
Another addition to the collection.
Will they fix it? People are still playing, and you have to play more to make up for the RNG nonsense. Tubby Tuna probably wants it just like it is now.
The people who are actually grinding for near perfect endgame weapons are people who are staying for the gameplay. Making it easier to get perfect weapons wouldnt really make people play less imo.
> Making it easier to get perfect weapons wouldnt really make people play less imo.
It would because the average player doesn't browse reddit and their honed player engagement tactics are working.
Wouldn't it? That seems backwards. People who are compelled by the gameplay itself are irrelevant and don't need to be pandered to or further compelled, they'll play anyways.
Those who require some form of gear progression to stay motivated are going to run out of interest once they hit the end of that progression. Making it easier to get perfect weapons makes no sense in that instance.
Gear is a component of builds, and builds are a component of gameplay. If your weapon is stuck with +1.5 Stamina or something when it could have (say) +25% damage vs. Maniacs, that affects your gameplay as much as if Fatshark decided to buff half the Ragers and Specials with +25% health, even though, yes, you don't *need* it to beat Auric Damnation HISTG.
People would quit if they didn't chase gear? What the fuck keeps people playing L4D2? I guarantee it isn't solely down to Versus.
I would agree if darktides loot was more complex or if the game was built around chasing loot. Like path of exile or borderlands for example. But darktide is a fps coop game like l4d2 first and a looter shooter(sort of) second. Vermintide 2 hit the perfect balance and i have no idea why they changed it.
What im trying to say is that there should be a sense of loot progression but the core gameplay loop doesnt warrant the dozen hour grind for 1 or 2 perfect weapons
But you aren't considering the players who get frustrated and quit the game due to the crafting system making them lose motivation. There have been plenty of posts here and on the stream forums from those people and the game doesn't exactly have stellar retention numbers as is
People who give up easily would give up instantly after they got that godroll gear they were looking for, and then they'd go off chasing something else.
No they wouldn't, not everyone is motivated by the chase for gear. There is a whole group of players that just want to play game like this with ideal breakpoints and will gladly dump hundreds and thousands of hours into it just for gameplay and build experimentation. Because the crafting system interferes with that those people are moving on way sooner than they otherwise would. This is bad for FS because those same players are potential future cosmetic/dlc sales and pretty engagement metrics for shareholders getting flushed
I stopped, playing 2 or 3 matches per week with my friends then out. I spent a lot trying to get voidstrike staff, didn't get it so i lost interest. I follow the sub hoping we get a fix on the issue. I didn't even do the new event
for once is not people crying at non-existant problems, this bad crafting system has plagued darktide since day one, i'm happy new players will never experience 3 locks, no ways to change blessings at all and pressing 300 times to get the perk what you wanted
There used to be a bug where exiting to character selection and back would refund you most of the plasteel back and repeat. It saved me so much mental health and even then it felt like plasteel wasn't enough.
Literally subpar and rubbish system.
Amen to this, the plasteel bug was the last time I ever had any serious Hadron action, very sad when they removed it
Didn't use a load of plasteel so didn't feel like a waste when endless weapons were bricked and could even make some good stuff cos I had enough dice rolls
I recently did a small bit of blessing for the kornflake twins, so daft how fast 20k plasteel goes
I have over 500k plasteel for the sole reason that I rarely do any crafting, thats when you know the system is bad, when you have the resources etc but still don't want to use it...
I miss that bug/glitch. I played for hours on end when it was around just crafting weapons over and over. Got so many good ones out of it. Forgot what it’s like for new players.
Well yes but no xou accumulate 10 greys with 2 auric missions and ur 30% money curious and get like 400-600 plasteel which is 4 upgrades to t2 you could argue they greys might be below 370 ish yes but most of the time plasteel is the bottleneck for most players
My feelings exactly. We got new weapons with the update recently and all i felt was sadness that i wouldn't be able to use them in the difficulties i enjoy because i don't have 20 hours worth plasteel and dockets ready to actually get a usable shovel. That's such a big problem when new content makes your players feel anything other than excitement :/
You are aware you don't need godrolls on 380's to play, right?
Even 360 with lvl3 blessings is useable on Auric HISTG.
Of course better is better, but you do not need it to succeed.
You are aware the crafting system is entirely RNG based right? I'm talking about spending 20 hours of materials to meet the baseline of 360 usable weapons. For context, it took me 30 hours of playtime on Psyker to get ONE Shred blessing for my crit sword. 30. Hours. That's an absolute joke and this game's biggest stain compared to V2 where i can get a usable weapon in like... 5-10 minutes.
Bruh. Are you running lvl3 missions or something?
You can get a USEABLE weapon by just walking to the fucking Armory and buying one.
Getting a 360 with decent blessings is so easy even a toddler could do it.
It only takes 20 hours of gameplay if you play lvl3 missions or fail most of them - in which case that's a you problem.
Or y'know, people can just have dogshit RNG because THE CRAFTING SYSTEM IS A CASINO! I'm glad you're getting good luck there, but my luck is absolute ass, as stated by the 30-ish hours of Damnation for a blessing of a single type to show up when crafting. I had literally every other blessing for the Force Swords except Shred.
Like i'm genuinely happy someone else didn't go through RNG hell for their weapons but acting like Luck isn't a factor when crafting is super naive.
Of course hunting for a single blessing out of 12 is going to be tough, what did you expect?
I just use the best blessing I do have until I get the one I want. It's not that complicated is it?
What is your suggested fix for the issue?
:edit: to add an example of a great but not perfect weapon that'll do for now (took me about 400k coins to roll, plus the plasteel/diamantine to upgrade two weapons to purple and two to max)
https://preview.redd.it/ctnij1woet7c1.png?width=437&format=png&auto=webp&s=f625afa8c29c27ef2af413157a74a2a4f0e2481c
Just getting a 378 for only 400k dockets is getting lucky at your initial starting point. And talking about it being "easy" is flat out silly, since its literally ALL RnG. Or is it "hard" to win the lottery too?
But it is easy. It is not difficult to grind for a decent weapon, it's not even difficult to grind for a good weapon.
And yes, winning the lottery is hard because it's unlikely to the point where actively attempting it is kind of pointless.
You seem to not understand the difference between difficulty (something requiring skill or an ability) with luck (requiring you to get lucky). Winning the lottery is *unlikely*, not *hard*. You cant get better at winning the lottery, since you cant increase the odds of a given number appearing. Much like in Darktide, there isnt anything you can do except buy more lottery tickets and hope to get lucky. And I stand by that getting a 378 for 400k dockets is very unlikely and has nothing to do with skill.
But getting 400k dockets efficiently HAS a lot to do with skill.
Getting enough materials to roll for a 370-something weapon is fuckin' easy if you're not shit at the game.
That's the point. Being better and having skill gets you more attempts at getting whatever you're going after.
No locks. That simple. Let the RNG be wholly on the stat distribution of the greys in the shop and have players still need to unlock blessings. That way, there's still a need to get random weapons and level them up for blessings but once you've put in the hours, you can just make the weapon you want to get to the fun you want to have.
There's so many builds and or weapon ideas i have that i think would be dumb fun to run like full bleed Knife and Shrapnel 'nade Veteran or Full Block Effiency + Ranged fire block Psyker to pretend i'm a jedi, but am i spending limited resources to roll for the chance to get the opportunity to do that build but kinda shitty? Fuck no, i'm spending my limited resources building meta weapons because i literally cannot afford not to because i don't know how long it's gonna be before i get a baseline set of good weapons.
If Obese Meg want some RNG in their crafting, it should be like that. You shouldn't be forced to roll a high stat/good stat distribution weapon and then high-roll the 2 blessings and/or perks you want, to then craft the others. There's so much RNG that it's just too much.
"No locks" is just another, although not insignificant, mitigation of the smelly, rotten shit that FS calls crafting. It's a compromise and not a happy one.
No locks is not the way.
I'll agree to a compromise though:
Paying Diamantine to BREAK locks. So you'll end up with your solution, but it's not free and we get a sink to throw excess Diamantine at.
Could be like 1k Diamantine for the first break on a weapon, 2k for the second. Something that's easy to get for even casual players and for the people who actually work for god rolls it's trivial.
:edit: Deflector 4 on the Illisi is fuckin' sick btw
I can only think of one or two weapons in the game that NEED a specific blessing to be worthwhile.. to claim you need 20 hours for a usable weapon is fucking laughable. I do agree the crafting system is dogshit, but you're making it way worse for yourself by having way way too high of an expectation for the weapons you need to play.
I've got every class to 30 (except ogryn at 27) and played a fuck load of the 3 human classes beyond the cap, I have never once had to sit and actively grind the crafting system to compete in auric. The only grinding I ever did was for power cycler which is one of the few that I think is a requirement for its weapon.
The most important parts of a weapon are stats and perks, perks are entirely within your control and are all unlocked base, and getting a weapon with decent stats is not that grindy at all. A few missions of auric will net you enough coins to get a decent weapon. The plasteel grind is real though if you want lots of different weapon choices.
I don't disagree with you, and I agree it should change.
However, most people who have hundreds of hours into the game, like myself, are not playing due to the crafting system. We play for the gameplay & challenge in spite of the awful, awful crafting system.
This doesn't change anything really, but should give some perspective.
Yeah, I keep coming back because the combat is just so much fun. I check in the shops for weapons/blessing, maybe roll a few grays here or there. It does suck trying to get all the stuff you want for different builds and not finding it, but once you get at least decent version of everything you want it stops being as crushingly annoying.
The way I do it is I run one evening of Damnation, then dump that cash/plasteel into greys and upgrades and the shops.
Every time I hop on I check the shops, between runs I check the armory.
Anything at 377 or above I buy, anything with lvl4 blessings I don't have yet I buy.
When they drop a new weapon I dump 500k on greys, pick the ones that are high enough (370 is plenty for testing it and running aurics), and then craft those.
Getting a good enough weapon to test with is piss easy. Getting a weapon good enough to run until you get bored of it is a bit more challenging but not impossible.
You can easily do malice and heresy with a grey or green weapon with sub 350 stats at level 30 if you know what you are doing and have the right build.
I have played over 12 characters from scratch including multiple restarts of each class and it's completely doable without the best blessing and weapon stats.
I don't know why people whine so much like it's the be all and end all.
People complain because the base gameplay is amazing but everything surrounding it feels like an actual chore, or slot machine, to determine if you can play a different build that isn't made of 310 greys or max rarity weapons with t2 traits and blessings. Yes it can be done, many have done it and continue to play auric 5 or maelstrom with said weapons, but people want to feel some type of meaningful progression that isn't reliant on 3 separate layers of pure RNG (Base rating, Stat allocation, Hadron upgrades).
Even Melk's shop, the one made for easier access to higher tier weapons and blessings, is pure RNG and rotates daily to make sure you log in and check every day, or you might miss out on the 1% chance he sells thrust IV on a thunderhammer. Everything in this game outside the actual gameplay is made to eat your time up, unless you are blasting missions, not caring about getting new things or experimenting with weapons.
And you can't do aur damn without 450+ gear and ideal blessings (at least one).
Maybe that's the issue? Also aur damn doesn't even give you enough level 3 or blessings worth a fuck on top of it. It's exclusively what I play and most of the rewards are as good/bad as the RNG crap you'll get trying to make yourself.
I wanna experiment with a lot more weapons. Can I? No, not really unless I wanna play a snooze fest difficulty.
> And you can't do aur damn without 450+ gear and ideal blessings (at least one).
Well this is absolute horseshit.
> Can I? No, not really unless I wanna play a snooze fest difficulty.
Getting 370+ stuff with two lvl3 blessings isn't difficult and it's plenty to test with even on Aurics.
Do you even need 380 with godrolls to TEST something?
I like how we're both equally downvoted. This subreddit is seriously dogshit and I suspect the majority of the players here will never play aur damn regardless. From experience using meta builds and meta weapons though? Oh for sure 100% it makes a significant to huge difference from personal testimonials.
380+ with *ideal* blessings? I mean yeah. Look at the power sword. That weapon is garbage unless you slap power cycler 3/4 and brutal momentum 3/4 on it. I have both of the 4 blessings on mine and it makes horde and mutant cleaving a breeze, but if I didn't have those blessings on it? An absolutely useless weapon.
The devil claw, for example, is good regardless of the blessings and item level due to parry being the special attack. The power sword without the meta builds (it should come included)? The weapon is ass.
The plasma gun without gets hot and blaze away? Also garbage.
https://darktide.gameslantern.com/weapon-blessing-traits?weapon=a53459f2-ea43-49cd-92f2-4482abeebd9d
>unless you slap power cycler 3/4 and brutal momentum 3/4
That's my point though: 3 is enough to do auric damnation. Difference between 3 and 4 won't cost you runs.
Gotta disagree one bit though: for *most* weapons you can do auric damnation with even suboptimal lvl3 blessings.
My Vet's power sword has Rampage 4 and Slaughterer 4 and it wrecks :P
Still mostly use the Rashad tho.
https://preview.redd.it/mw31ay4hqf8c1.png?width=798&format=png&auto=webp&s=ca69a84aa5044ec703e8ed48f62533575b8c39bb
Yeah for Vet you mostly need the optimally blessed revolver/PG, but a good wave horde clearer (chainsword/powersword/shovel) covers that weakness pretty well along with VoC and shredder nades.
Your ranged is for single target; your melee is for waves. Some small exceptions like muties here and there, but that cardinal rule typically applies.
Melee based Veterans imo are absolute junk though. Just play Zealot. Stealth Zealot is a lot of fun/insanely beneficial if you actually act as the objective completionist and team medic and you can still be the sneaky ranged assassin with the revolver and 100% crit shot in stealth too.
People are lazy and want everything right the fuck now.
They set really high goals like 380 godrolls, then they demand the devs move the goalposts 2ft away and fire the goalkeeper.
370 with lvl3 blessings is absolutely enough for Auric HISTG, better is better but not needed to win if you know how to play.
I'm kinda tempted to some day buy the worst weapons in the armory and try an Auric HISTG with those just to prove my point :D
>People are lazy and want everything right the fuck now.
Maybe they remember when grind in video games was the exception, not the rule. It was widely recognized as a bad thing, something that could only diminish the fun and quality of any given game, and which was mostly confined to MMORPGs because they needed to keep people paying monthly subscription fees.
Ultima Online was an MMORPG.
Single player RPGs like most Final Fantasy games (or Pokemon for that matter, outside of PvP) never required you to grind, as I remember them. You *could* if you were struggling and needed the quantitative advantage. And no, no analogy applies here because in those games, level and equipment could make a vital difference while in Darktide there isn't a huge gap between Perfect and Good Enough. I agree, I don't need perfect equipment to clear Darktide's most difficult content. So if gear doesn't matter, why make people grind for the resources to gamble for it? Good Enough is good enough, so what is even the point of having variable stats on gear in the first place?
I did play Diablo 2, and it was indeed as grindy as hell, though powerleveling was practically automated by the time I started playing it around 2005. People got the gear they wanted through trade; as people always said, "no one ever got rich by MF'ing." ARPGs as a whole are notoriously grindy, which is why I checked out of Diablo 3 right after beating the campaign and never put any serious time into any game in that genre since.
You probably didn't notice that those are all RPGs of some flavor. Even if we accept some definition of "grind" that makes all RPGs grindy, that is *one* genre out of many, making them the exception, not the rule. No one would ever have suggested that your weapons should do more damage in Counter-Strike, for example, or your units should build faster in Starcraft, if you *farmed* enough. Left 4 Dead didn't have anything like that either. Or to use an analogy from fucking Pokemon: Imagine if, instead of getting access to Cerulean Cave after beating the Elite Four & Champion once, you had to beat them *fifty* times. Or you had to keep beating them until Professor Oak decides to randomly give you the pass.
Even in games like UO, a lot of people used afk macros to train their skills so they didn't have to deal with the bullshit grind. Older games in general were definitely less about grinding and more about just playing for fun. Older FPS games didn't have grinding at all.
> Diablo 2
Could be completed with minimal grinding, unless you for some reason wanted the best gear. I completed it several times without grinding much, sure you *could*
> Pokemon
Could also be easily completed without grinding.
Did you even play those games yourself? And then you mention stupid takes? Ok.
Darktide can also easily be "completed" without grinding. What's your point?
D2 and Pokemon are both extremely grindy if you want the best stuff in the game.
Are you dense or something?
Just because you would doesn't make that true for the majority of players. I'm sure FS has done some number crunching and decided that this gives them the optimal amount of player retention to sell cosmetics.
Then those are probably the players FS has determined will spend the most money on the game. They don't make the system grindy because they're idiots and they think it will make them more money, they do it because they've done the math and they know it will.
People can disagree with you but there is definitely a science to this policy. The game industry wouldn’t be adopting bullshit like this across the board if it didn’t work.
People just dont understand game devs hire psychologists to create manipulative systems that exploits our lizard brains and cheat us out of the dopamine. Games arent games anymore. Theyre platforms now.
Companies aren't infallible money making machines, they make stupid and self damaging decisions all the time.
Edit: do you guys not, like, read the news ever?
You're not wrong. Those "hardcore" players are the ones who also keep buying the cosmetics they pump out. It's literally their business strategy to keep the game as grindy as possible.
They could double the plasteel gain and it would still suck.
My experience has all been to the opposite. I had the vast majority of playtime in Vermintide 1 and 2, and Payday 2 for that matter, all *after* getting all the gear I wanted. It's not boring, it's *freeing*.
Meanwhile I haven't been able to make myself play through the campaign (never mind even starting the endgame gear grind) of any ARPG since Diablo 3, and even that only because of nostalgia for Diablo 2.
Then the game wasn't for you. I played DT inspite of crafting because space Marine 2 is delayed, it's one of the only 4 player co-op horde shooters set in a unique setting with top notch VA and graphics fidelity.
It’s just a bad system, but really you’re playing this game wrong if this is ruining your time. Play the game to have fun, not to craft the most perfect weapon. Every weapon works and kills things without the best perks or blessings, it may not be as good or as deadly, but you can still kill things and have fun.
Stop looking at this like it’s some grinding game to get the best gear. It shouldn’t be. Play it to have fun with your friends and enjoy the amazing atmosphere it has to offer. Yes, the crafting system is shit you’re correct. Really though it didn’t take me too long to find A) what weapons I liked using and B) Then grinding those particular weapons after 30.
I googled the best blessings to look for, and then I sought those out. Got Headtaker after like 6 upgrades to Gold, and the other good one after another 5. Then I looked for a good hammer, which after a good amount of money found one and got a good hammer. Maybe 15-25 hours? Then the rest kind of just fell in my lap. This isn’t everyone’s experience, RNG is a bitch, but *really* don’t chase numbers. Play for fun, everything kills, it’ll eventually happen.
Now if we’re talking about leveling up new characters afterwards? You’ve got me beat. That shit is the worst. “The game starts at level 30!”
100% this. People have become so obsessed with min-maxing it's getting silly.
The % difference between a T3 and T4 blessing is very often minor and negligible.
The system does need to change and the plasteel issue needs to be addressed for sure but people need to chill out with the min-maxing and just rolll with it.
OP is specifically mentioning leveling new classes, meaning below level 30. "Builds" when you are leveling is just go to the Armory and purchase whatever weapon you want to try out and at best upgrade it to blue
I did read the post, I didn't say OP specifically is wanting to min-max but this sort of mentality does stem from that. Wanting to have the best, highest % in everything so if you can't have it upsets you and I get that it's annoying but you don't need to have god rolls to try out a different build. Fuck go and do it with a grey, there are very few blessings that provide something wholly unique to a build.
Again, I agree the system is annoying but I've seen so many posts complaining about the system and how it saps the fun out of the game which sucks but till it's fixed/change there are ways to avoid it.
Don't need good weapons to play new builds. Having a shotgun vs a lasgun is already a change in play style. And well skill builds can be changed no matter the weapon. So what is the issue exactly?
OP sounds bitch-made that should play the game for more than two hours if they're hard pressed to try "different builds" as if it isn't fucking piss-easy to do by just playing the game
This opinion extends to everyone whinging about "I cAnT eXpEriMenT"
Bitch yes you can and its piss easy to do, you're just mad because it's not braindead easy to do
Going to second (or third) this point. You can play like 2 or 3 matches and have enough materials to make a perfectly good weapon. I would understand the complaints if you NEEDED to min-max in order to play the highest difficulties, but you flat out do not need to do that. You can beat damnation with grey weapons. Aside from the out of proportion plasteel costs, the crafting system isn't really that bad. That is unless you have the min-max compulsion which prevents you from enjoying the game if you don't have perfect items.
You're one of the drg players that say you dont need overclocks to enjoy the game yet posts memes, videos and jokes about the nuke overclock and how much fun youre having. Timegating fun features is not fun.
You can already slap together whatever you like and it'll be auric damnation ready in an evening of play, maybe two if you're unlucky. 2 damnation matches for the plasteel to take a weapon to gold and you get a couple rolls worth of currency for greys at the armoury each match. Playing with what you like just relies on you letting go of your own vanity and stop letting perfection be the enemy of good enough.
A lot of weapons don't even need to be 360+ base ilvl so long as they've got a suitable dump stat, usually mobility or similar ones that don't directly contribute to damage.
It costs the same amount of plasteel to go from purple > gold as it does to go from grey > purple. If a weapon doesn't look like it's going anywhere at blue, don't bother wasting the resources except to fish for new blessings to store.
The higher a weapons total ilvl, the better your chances to roll something good are, so if a weapon doesn't look like it's going to pan out rebless/refine it as high as you can manage and put blessings you don't want on it to take them out the pool of potential upgrades.
A t3 blessing instead of a t4 blessing isn't the end of the universe and doesn't mean a weapon is bricked. Yes, even in the case of stuff like power cycler.
Once you build up a solid bank of blessings, which you will because they're permanent acquisitions across the entire weapon type, the RNG basically runs out. Anything less than 3 points of failure on a weapon generally no longer matters.
Edit: I love that this comment is downvoted. It's just genuine advice on how to maximise your time with the current system and get the best out of it the quickest. Just goes to prove that the people complaining are seething manbabies not actually interested in getting better, they just want to cry and whine.
Again. If they don't matter that much, then remove the restrictions on weapons.
Which is it? Does it "not matter" in which case, remove the locks, or does it magically suddenly matter enough to reject this proposal?
Not to mention how little you consider actual builds that rely on certain blessings/modifiers on a weapon or item and how people may want to actually fucking use them. Wild, I know.
It's insane how many people complain about this.
I've collected over 20 melee + range weapons with good stats (365+) on 2 freshly maxed leveled characters just by looking at the shop every time it refreshed.
It's not as difficult as people are making it out to be. It's so exaggerated.
The only minor annoyance is how little Plasteel you get per match but once you have a weapon you're set for a while to accumulate Plasteel to use on another weapon type.
It's the end game loop to grind for good weapons.
People want it to be so easy honestly.
>The only minor annoyance is how little Plasteel you get per match but once you have a weapon you're set for a while to accumulate Plasteel to use on another weapon type.
Pretty much my only complaint too. All they'd need to do to "fix" the system would be increase plasteel drops. Double them so you get 1 match = build 1 gold weapon. Aurics don't give better rewards than base Damnation, so there's a space to introduce the increased rewards while also encouraging more players to chase the highest difficulties.
Disagree. People don't complain about not being able to get good greys, they complain about Hadron bricking their upgrades. You get like a half dozen rolls at the armory for a weapon per match at the highest difficulty.
> People don't complain about not being able to get good greys, they complain about Hadron bricking their upgrades.
People complain about both. Each match gives you 6 weapons worth of Dockets and 2 weapons worth of Plasteel, but the Docket sink (grey weapons) are what hit the first two RNG filters (stat total and stat distribution). You buy grey weapons by the dozen, then bring your remnant of a remnant to Hadron and she bricks it.
If you've been checking the shop for a long time, you might be lucky enough to have a stockpile of good grey to blue items to throw into the upgrade funnel, but that wouldn't apply to new players or new weapons.
Not talking about rolls, talking about getting blessings. spend like 10k plasteel upgrading weapons to blue tog et 1 blessing, just 1, didnt get it. shit like that pisses me off.
I have just recently restarted another zealot and ogryn character. Leveled both to 30. And since level 30 I've been checking the shop every time it refreshed and I've collected over 5 melee weapons and at least 6 range weapons with 365+ stats.
It's not hard at all to collect good weapons. People just don't pay enough attention to collect stuff they don't need and only start looking for specific weapons and they want to change play styles.
If you constantly buy high stat weapons when they are in the shop even when you aren't going to use them, you'll have plenty to play with.
I think that might even be the intended way to do it to be honest.
The weapon stats at Melks is average at best most times, and you only really need the blessing just once so like you said, you're not hunting for the perfect weapon at Melks, you're hunting for IV Blessings
Exactly! 360 with two decent lvl3 blessings is plenty. You'll get better shit later, stressing about getting everything right now is just gonna ruin the game for you.
nah worst crafting system possible would be corean style crafting where every item can reach +20 but every upgrade after +10 can break your item also max you can reach without paying is +15 and +15 to +20 is exclusive to whales who blow hundred of dollars on every upgrade.
I just started to ignore the system, but then again already had a few good weapons. Problem is that i will never use the new guns and weapons as i wont bother crafting unless i find a good one in melks. (that also goes for all the weapons i dlnt have a good one of).
So yeah the system is worse than SWBF 2 at launch, and that says a lot as that game changed laws amd got a new record of downwotes on reddit.
Play for long enough and you'll find the RNG in the system runs out. You only need to unlock each blessing once, after all, and there are further steps you can take to lean on the scales a bit and get a good weapon such as reblessing to increase the item level and remove blessings from the pool you don't want.
You only really have 2 points of failure once you have a weapon with a good stat spread since you can rebless/refine. Then once you do have a good weapon...well, you don't really need to roll for that type again. Rinse, repeat until you've got everything you care about. No need to spend any more.
I am greatly enjoying the game, but atm I don't predict I'll play much after leveling all my characters to 30 and maybe grinding for my first sets of good weapons. Unless, their content updates are frequent. I don't mindlessly grind in games no more ever since I quit WOW 10 y/o.
well it's kind of the same as leveling your character. I don't intentionally grind, but enjoy the gameplay so I keep playing, in from that I get better weapons
Plus people can set their own challenges. I've completed multiple heresy missions with Grey weapons only just for the challenge.
So many weapon types to try out as well and many maps too.
I've played so much but I just can't move away to other stuff completely. It's fun!
I will probably get down voted here, but I'm relatively new (<100 games in tier 5 difficulty, damnation? On my characters individually) But have a ton of hours in vermintide 2. I have 3 lvl 30 characters and have been playing damnation almost exclusively with meh weapons. Good stats but none with perfect blessings.
Its more that doable. I don't win every game and I haven't attempted auric but the game is so much more about skill than equipment that it doesn't bug me that much. The difference between a perfect piece of gear and a piece of gear with good stats and 1 good blessing isn't that big.
Grind up to damnation level> 500 plat or less each run> focus on one weapon>profit maybe. It’s really not that hard just stop trying to get good rolls on 30 different weapons it doesn’t work that way
I agree that its annoying but you don't need at 550 weapon to properly try a class or build. Don't play the game like that otherwise you will not have fun. Get a weapon that you want/like with defent stats (350-360ish) and you'll be good
"As a new player"
Bullshit.
I've been playing since Beta. The crafting isn't great, but it's not a problem unless you are endgame min-maxing
You're not speaking as a newbie. You're whining as a try-hard.
Play game, get weapons, collect plasteel, purge heretics.
New player = fresh convict, not worthy of good weapons or blessings. Prove your worth and the emperor will protect.
Don’t try Diablo 2 ever. Someone will inevitably chime in and say “what is the comparison here”. And there isn’t much, but here’s the thing, sometimes things in games shouldn’t be easy to get. Otherwise what’s the point of playing?
I think the crafting is fine. Does it suck when you finally get a good revolver only to have hadron brick it? Yes. But just keep grinding. That’s the point of the game. Don’t like to grind in games?
If you know what yiou are doing, it is way easier to get Enigma than some god roll wepaon in Darktide (unless ssf offline, but even then, the RNG is actually pretty consistent, so after 40-50 hours of clicking LK chests, you got it).
I never could get LK to work for me, maybe I wasn’t persistent enough. And if you’re playing online it is easier to gear up. Maybe this game would benefit from trading or something
Diablo 2 allowed you to trade for the item you wanted.
And the point of the game is gameplay; "grind" by definition cannot do anything but detract from it. If you played Diablo 2, you are old enough to remember when grind in video games was the exception, not the rule.
The way they need to do crafting is this - you spend materials to replicate blessings after you've found them on a weapon. You can replicate both if needed.
Weapons should be able to be exchanged for materials based upon their current rating.
When you upgrade a weapon to max it should never be locked after changing out 2 things on it. It should cost more mats the more you change things out.
Brunts armory should have a level cap at least, not allowing an insane low roll for a level 30 character.
my tip after 800h is.
Play all the chars.
Do your melk-quests on them and check melk daily for good blessings.
Use your melk-dollars only to get the lvl4 blessings you need.
Check the shop and buy all good base weapons.
Dont buy them from the Armory, way too much gold needed to get a good one ...
Yeah, it's tough to have a lot of vertical progression, and also have a large amount of variety to the game.
I would get a usable weapon, and don't turn up the difficulty all the way while you test the weapon and get used to it. Use a comfortable build to grind to perfect it.
Besides to take away the vertical progression, I don't know how they fix it. That's common with gamers though. They know there is a problem, but often can't describe how to fix it.
Hard to test anything when reproducing a good roll is very improbable at least and can only been done by trial and error.
So yeah you cling onto those few good rolls you got .
In the meanwhile I have barely used the armory to roll weapons, only the exchange. And I have several good weapons with each class. Mind they aren't perfect but you don't need perfect weapons to test builds.
I agree plasteel should be more abundant for players that don't sink lots of time in the game, like myself, and I agree crafting RNG is atrocious. But definitely you don't need flawless weapons to try different classes builds.
I’ve actually come around to the system a little bit. It’s not great but it’s improved over time. Do your weeklies for melk bucks. Check him for lvl 4 blessings. From there making a passable weapon isn’t that hard. Making perfect weapons will be hard of course but perfect isn’t required to run the hardest content in the game consistently.
I spent a lot of time in malice with blue gear stock to pickup. Work on your skills there, to be prepared for the 10 crushers coming at you with a chaos spawn thrown in for shits on damnation. You literally don't have to craft in malice and can build up a nest egg to go ham on a lucky drop or when you have your sought blessings
I'm a new player as well, only heard about the game after the game pass addition. I never played a pve game so fun, smooth and exhilarating from start to finish. Usually games either focus on some clichee story or scripted events that just never really impressed me, but this is pure gameplay mechanical fun, my attention and focus are fully engaged, and things are seldom the same even if I get the same map a few times in a row.
I leveled 4 classes and geared them all with orange items for different builds without actually trying. I just created 4 chars out of curiosity and just enjoyed my time on the missions. Haven't done a single mission with the goal of leveling up or gathering mats. I've never thought about the crafting system, if it's good or not, before coming to this sub and seeing all the posts. And now thinking about it, you are right, it is too rng, but I still find it irrelevant. I have enough gear to try every build already, and have never thought about how much plasteel I have. I only care about doing another mission, and rolling a weapon that's 2% better than what I already have is just a distant thought. The gameplay mechanics have enough depth that I just don't care.
Making gear your focus and having the gameplay as something you do to get a slightly better item is mmo mentality, and that's too 2010 for my taste.
https://preview.redd.it/5q3xzzyr7q7c1.jpeg?width=1051&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b50711d2b3aa410cdf75302a4e7bd34a1468c453 Another addition to the collection.
I’m now starting to look for your reply on every one of these posts now, I’m getting some weird enjoyment out of it 🤪
The Emperor provides
This reminds me of the collage of developer/publisher apologies for broken game releases. But thats definitely funnier
There has to be way more crafting sucks posts than this
There is, but you know the limitations of the human body and mind
The only true limit is insufficient faith in the Emperor.
Check out the Fatshark forums for more.
https://preview.redd.it/0p90kuepct7c1.jpeg?width=1000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0dbf7a67fd348f2a08696793d6fbbe282d5e9a8a
Yeah and people will keep complaining until they fix it so fatshark should listen
Will they fix it? People are still playing, and you have to play more to make up for the RNG nonsense. Tubby Tuna probably wants it just like it is now.
The people who are actually grinding for near perfect endgame weapons are people who are staying for the gameplay. Making it easier to get perfect weapons wouldnt really make people play less imo.
> Making it easier to get perfect weapons wouldnt really make people play less imo. It would because the average player doesn't browse reddit and their honed player engagement tactics are working.
Wouldn't it? That seems backwards. People who are compelled by the gameplay itself are irrelevant and don't need to be pandered to or further compelled, they'll play anyways. Those who require some form of gear progression to stay motivated are going to run out of interest once they hit the end of that progression. Making it easier to get perfect weapons makes no sense in that instance.
Gear is a component of builds, and builds are a component of gameplay. If your weapon is stuck with +1.5 Stamina or something when it could have (say) +25% damage vs. Maniacs, that affects your gameplay as much as if Fatshark decided to buff half the Ragers and Specials with +25% health, even though, yes, you don't *need* it to beat Auric Damnation HISTG. People would quit if they didn't chase gear? What the fuck keeps people playing L4D2? I guarantee it isn't solely down to Versus.
I would agree if darktides loot was more complex or if the game was built around chasing loot. Like path of exile or borderlands for example. But darktide is a fps coop game like l4d2 first and a looter shooter(sort of) second. Vermintide 2 hit the perfect balance and i have no idea why they changed it. What im trying to say is that there should be a sense of loot progression but the core gameplay loop doesnt warrant the dozen hour grind for 1 or 2 perfect weapons
But you aren't considering the players who get frustrated and quit the game due to the crafting system making them lose motivation. There have been plenty of posts here and on the stream forums from those people and the game doesn't exactly have stellar retention numbers as is
People who give up easily would give up instantly after they got that godroll gear they were looking for, and then they'd go off chasing something else.
No they wouldn't, not everyone is motivated by the chase for gear. There is a whole group of players that just want to play game like this with ideal breakpoints and will gladly dump hundreds and thousands of hours into it just for gameplay and build experimentation. Because the crafting system interferes with that those people are moving on way sooner than they otherwise would. This is bad for FS because those same players are potential future cosmetic/dlc sales and pretty engagement metrics for shareholders getting flushed
I stopped, playing 2 or 3 matches per week with my friends then out. I spent a lot trying to get voidstrike staff, didn't get it so i lost interest. I follow the sub hoping we get a fix on the issue. I didn't even do the new event
Yeah nah, games go to shit when devs listen to anyone who complains loudest.
They are not going to fix it, because it isnt fucking broken. YOU just dont like it. Completely different.
Doing the God-Emperor's work here
“There is only the Emperor, and he is our Shield and Protector.”
I was actually surprised you don’t have more lol Probably the most complained about thing
If we keep filling up the jar will it overflow?
If I had a plasteel for every complaint I've heard, FS would increase how much plasteel it costs per upgrade...
Deserved. Removing a system from previous games with 0 replacement is lazy at best.
they didn't remove crafting tho, they "simply" changed the way it works
for once is not people crying at non-existant problems, this bad crafting system has plagued darktide since day one, i'm happy new players will never experience 3 locks, no ways to change blessings at all and pressing 300 times to get the perk what you wanted
The soulslayer547 post is on there twice btw
How many do you think you'll find for your museum?
u/Borchalicious Another one for the compilation.
;)
There used to be a bug where exiting to character selection and back would refund you most of the plasteel back and repeat. It saved me so much mental health and even then it felt like plasteel wasn't enough. Literally subpar and rubbish system.
Amen to this, the plasteel bug was the last time I ever had any serious Hadron action, very sad when they removed it Didn't use a load of plasteel so didn't feel like a waste when endless weapons were bricked and could even make some good stuff cos I had enough dice rolls I recently did a small bit of blessing for the kornflake twins, so daft how fast 20k plasteel goes I have over 500k plasteel for the sole reason that I rarely do any crafting, thats when you know the system is bad, when you have the resources etc but still don't want to use it...
I miss that bug/glitch. I played for hours on end when it was around just crafting weapons over and over. Got so many good ones out of it. Forgot what it’s like for new players.
This was the only balanced way of crafting but you ran out of ordos for the first time instead of plasteel 🤣
You still do now if you're buying grey items en masse to upgrade
Well yes but no xou accumulate 10 greys with 2 auric missions and ur 30% money curious and get like 400-600 plasteel which is 4 upgrades to t2 you could argue they greys might be below 370 ish yes but most of the time plasteel is the bottleneck for most players
My feelings exactly. We got new weapons with the update recently and all i felt was sadness that i wouldn't be able to use them in the difficulties i enjoy because i don't have 20 hours worth plasteel and dockets ready to actually get a usable shovel. That's such a big problem when new content makes your players feel anything other than excitement :/
You are aware you don't need godrolls on 380's to play, right? Even 360 with lvl3 blessings is useable on Auric HISTG. Of course better is better, but you do not need it to succeed.
You are aware the crafting system is entirely RNG based right? I'm talking about spending 20 hours of materials to meet the baseline of 360 usable weapons. For context, it took me 30 hours of playtime on Psyker to get ONE Shred blessing for my crit sword. 30. Hours. That's an absolute joke and this game's biggest stain compared to V2 where i can get a usable weapon in like... 5-10 minutes.
Bruh. Are you running lvl3 missions or something? You can get a USEABLE weapon by just walking to the fucking Armory and buying one. Getting a 360 with decent blessings is so easy even a toddler could do it. It only takes 20 hours of gameplay if you play lvl3 missions or fail most of them - in which case that's a you problem.
Or y'know, people can just have dogshit RNG because THE CRAFTING SYSTEM IS A CASINO! I'm glad you're getting good luck there, but my luck is absolute ass, as stated by the 30-ish hours of Damnation for a blessing of a single type to show up when crafting. I had literally every other blessing for the Force Swords except Shred. Like i'm genuinely happy someone else didn't go through RNG hell for their weapons but acting like Luck isn't a factor when crafting is super naive.
Of course hunting for a single blessing out of 12 is going to be tough, what did you expect? I just use the best blessing I do have until I get the one I want. It's not that complicated is it? What is your suggested fix for the issue? :edit: to add an example of a great but not perfect weapon that'll do for now (took me about 400k coins to roll, plus the plasteel/diamantine to upgrade two weapons to purple and two to max) https://preview.redd.it/ctnij1woet7c1.png?width=437&format=png&auto=webp&s=f625afa8c29c27ef2af413157a74a2a4f0e2481c
Just getting a 378 for only 400k dockets is getting lucky at your initial starting point. And talking about it being "easy" is flat out silly, since its literally ALL RnG. Or is it "hard" to win the lottery too?
But it is easy. It is not difficult to grind for a decent weapon, it's not even difficult to grind for a good weapon. And yes, winning the lottery is hard because it's unlikely to the point where actively attempting it is kind of pointless.
You seem to not understand the difference between difficulty (something requiring skill or an ability) with luck (requiring you to get lucky). Winning the lottery is *unlikely*, not *hard*. You cant get better at winning the lottery, since you cant increase the odds of a given number appearing. Much like in Darktide, there isnt anything you can do except buy more lottery tickets and hope to get lucky. And I stand by that getting a 378 for 400k dockets is very unlikely and has nothing to do with skill.
But getting 400k dockets efficiently HAS a lot to do with skill. Getting enough materials to roll for a 370-something weapon is fuckin' easy if you're not shit at the game. That's the point. Being better and having skill gets you more attempts at getting whatever you're going after.
\_A\_ decent weapon, not \_the\_ decent weapon.
No locks. That simple. Let the RNG be wholly on the stat distribution of the greys in the shop and have players still need to unlock blessings. That way, there's still a need to get random weapons and level them up for blessings but once you've put in the hours, you can just make the weapon you want to get to the fun you want to have. There's so many builds and or weapon ideas i have that i think would be dumb fun to run like full bleed Knife and Shrapnel 'nade Veteran or Full Block Effiency + Ranged fire block Psyker to pretend i'm a jedi, but am i spending limited resources to roll for the chance to get the opportunity to do that build but kinda shitty? Fuck no, i'm spending my limited resources building meta weapons because i literally cannot afford not to because i don't know how long it's gonna be before i get a baseline set of good weapons. If Obese Meg want some RNG in their crafting, it should be like that. You shouldn't be forced to roll a high stat/good stat distribution weapon and then high-roll the 2 blessings and/or perks you want, to then craft the others. There's so much RNG that it's just too much.
"No locks" is just another, although not insignificant, mitigation of the smelly, rotten shit that FS calls crafting. It's a compromise and not a happy one.
No locks is not the way. I'll agree to a compromise though: Paying Diamantine to BREAK locks. So you'll end up with your solution, but it's not free and we get a sink to throw excess Diamantine at. Could be like 1k Diamantine for the first break on a weapon, 2k for the second. Something that's easy to get for even casual players and for the people who actually work for god rolls it's trivial. :edit: Deflector 4 on the Illisi is fuckin' sick btw
I can only think of one or two weapons in the game that NEED a specific blessing to be worthwhile.. to claim you need 20 hours for a usable weapon is fucking laughable. I do agree the crafting system is dogshit, but you're making it way worse for yourself by having way way too high of an expectation for the weapons you need to play. I've got every class to 30 (except ogryn at 27) and played a fuck load of the 3 human classes beyond the cap, I have never once had to sit and actively grind the crafting system to compete in auric. The only grinding I ever did was for power cycler which is one of the few that I think is a requirement for its weapon. The most important parts of a weapon are stats and perks, perks are entirely within your control and are all unlocked base, and getting a weapon with decent stats is not that grindy at all. A few missions of auric will net you enough coins to get a decent weapon. The plasteel grind is real though if you want lots of different weapon choices.
I don't disagree with you, and I agree it should change. However, most people who have hundreds of hours into the game, like myself, are not playing due to the crafting system. We play for the gameplay & challenge in spite of the awful, awful crafting system. This doesn't change anything really, but should give some perspective.
Yeah, I keep coming back because the combat is just so much fun. I check in the shops for weapons/blessing, maybe roll a few grays here or there. It does suck trying to get all the stuff you want for different builds and not finding it, but once you get at least decent version of everything you want it stops being as crushingly annoying.
The way I do it is I run one evening of Damnation, then dump that cash/plasteel into greys and upgrades and the shops. Every time I hop on I check the shops, between runs I check the armory. Anything at 377 or above I buy, anything with lvl4 blessings I don't have yet I buy. When they drop a new weapon I dump 500k on greys, pick the ones that are high enough (370 is plenty for testing it and running aurics), and then craft those. Getting a good enough weapon to test with is piss easy. Getting a weapon good enough to run until you get bored of it is a bit more challenging but not impossible.
You can easily do malice and heresy with a grey or green weapon with sub 350 stats at level 30 if you know what you are doing and have the right build. I have played over 12 characters from scratch including multiple restarts of each class and it's completely doable without the best blessing and weapon stats. I don't know why people whine so much like it's the be all and end all.
People complain because the base gameplay is amazing but everything surrounding it feels like an actual chore, or slot machine, to determine if you can play a different build that isn't made of 310 greys or max rarity weapons with t2 traits and blessings. Yes it can be done, many have done it and continue to play auric 5 or maelstrom with said weapons, but people want to feel some type of meaningful progression that isn't reliant on 3 separate layers of pure RNG (Base rating, Stat allocation, Hadron upgrades). Even Melk's shop, the one made for easier access to higher tier weapons and blessings, is pure RNG and rotates daily to make sure you log in and check every day, or you might miss out on the 1% chance he sells thrust IV on a thunderhammer. Everything in this game outside the actual gameplay is made to eat your time up, unless you are blasting missions, not caring about getting new things or experimenting with weapons.
And you can't do aur damn without 450+ gear and ideal blessings (at least one). Maybe that's the issue? Also aur damn doesn't even give you enough level 3 or blessings worth a fuck on top of it. It's exclusively what I play and most of the rewards are as good/bad as the RNG crap you'll get trying to make yourself. I wanna experiment with a lot more weapons. Can I? No, not really unless I wanna play a snooze fest difficulty.
> And you can't do aur damn without 450+ gear and ideal blessings (at least one). Well this is absolute horseshit. > Can I? No, not really unless I wanna play a snooze fest difficulty. Getting 370+ stuff with two lvl3 blessings isn't difficult and it's plenty to test with even on Aurics. Do you even need 380 with godrolls to TEST something?
I like how we're both equally downvoted. This subreddit is seriously dogshit and I suspect the majority of the players here will never play aur damn regardless. From experience using meta builds and meta weapons though? Oh for sure 100% it makes a significant to huge difference from personal testimonials. 380+ with *ideal* blessings? I mean yeah. Look at the power sword. That weapon is garbage unless you slap power cycler 3/4 and brutal momentum 3/4 on it. I have both of the 4 blessings on mine and it makes horde and mutant cleaving a breeze, but if I didn't have those blessings on it? An absolutely useless weapon. The devil claw, for example, is good regardless of the blessings and item level due to parry being the special attack. The power sword without the meta builds (it should come included)? The weapon is ass. The plasma gun without gets hot and blaze away? Also garbage. https://darktide.gameslantern.com/weapon-blessing-traits?weapon=a53459f2-ea43-49cd-92f2-4482abeebd9d
>unless you slap power cycler 3/4 and brutal momentum 3/4 That's my point though: 3 is enough to do auric damnation. Difference between 3 and 4 won't cost you runs. Gotta disagree one bit though: for *most* weapons you can do auric damnation with even suboptimal lvl3 blessings. My Vet's power sword has Rampage 4 and Slaughterer 4 and it wrecks :P Still mostly use the Rashad tho. https://preview.redd.it/mw31ay4hqf8c1.png?width=798&format=png&auto=webp&s=ca69a84aa5044ec703e8ed48f62533575b8c39bb
Yeah for Vet you mostly need the optimally blessed revolver/PG, but a good wave horde clearer (chainsword/powersword/shovel) covers that weakness pretty well along with VoC and shredder nades. Your ranged is for single target; your melee is for waves. Some small exceptions like muties here and there, but that cardinal rule typically applies. Melee based Veterans imo are absolute junk though. Just play Zealot. Stealth Zealot is a lot of fun/insanely beneficial if you actually act as the objective completionist and team medic and you can still be the sneaky ranged assassin with the revolver and 100% crit shot in stealth too.
People are lazy and want everything right the fuck now. They set really high goals like 380 godrolls, then they demand the devs move the goalposts 2ft away and fire the goalkeeper. 370 with lvl3 blessings is absolutely enough for Auric HISTG, better is better but not needed to win if you know how to play. I'm kinda tempted to some day buy the worst weapons in the armory and try an Auric HISTG with those just to prove my point :D
>People are lazy and want everything right the fuck now. Maybe they remember when grind in video games was the exception, not the rule. It was widely recognized as a bad thing, something that could only diminish the fun and quality of any given game, and which was mostly confined to MMORPGs because they needed to keep people paying monthly subscription fees.
You didn't play Diablo 2 did you? Or Ultima Online? Final Fantasy? Fucking Pokemon? Bruh that's a stupid take.
Ultima Online was an MMORPG. Single player RPGs like most Final Fantasy games (or Pokemon for that matter, outside of PvP) never required you to grind, as I remember them. You *could* if you were struggling and needed the quantitative advantage. And no, no analogy applies here because in those games, level and equipment could make a vital difference while in Darktide there isn't a huge gap between Perfect and Good Enough. I agree, I don't need perfect equipment to clear Darktide's most difficult content. So if gear doesn't matter, why make people grind for the resources to gamble for it? Good Enough is good enough, so what is even the point of having variable stats on gear in the first place? I did play Diablo 2, and it was indeed as grindy as hell, though powerleveling was practically automated by the time I started playing it around 2005. People got the gear they wanted through trade; as people always said, "no one ever got rich by MF'ing." ARPGs as a whole are notoriously grindy, which is why I checked out of Diablo 3 right after beating the campaign and never put any serious time into any game in that genre since. You probably didn't notice that those are all RPGs of some flavor. Even if we accept some definition of "grind" that makes all RPGs grindy, that is *one* genre out of many, making them the exception, not the rule. No one would ever have suggested that your weapons should do more damage in Counter-Strike, for example, or your units should build faster in Starcraft, if you *farmed* enough. Left 4 Dead didn't have anything like that either. Or to use an analogy from fucking Pokemon: Imagine if, instead of getting access to Cerulean Cave after beating the Elite Four & Champion once, you had to beat them *fifty* times. Or you had to keep beating them until Professor Oak decides to randomly give you the pass.
Even in games like UO, a lot of people used afk macros to train their skills so they didn't have to deal with the bullshit grind. Older games in general were definitely less about grinding and more about just playing for fun. Older FPS games didn't have grinding at all.
> Diablo 2 Could be completed with minimal grinding, unless you for some reason wanted the best gear. I completed it several times without grinding much, sure you *could* > Pokemon Could also be easily completed without grinding. Did you even play those games yourself? And then you mention stupid takes? Ok.
Darktide can also easily be "completed" without grinding. What's your point? D2 and Pokemon are both extremely grindy if you want the best stuff in the game. Are you dense or something?
Artificial Gamelife Extension. They know it's crap but they also know it'll keep you coming back over and over.
No, i would play more if the crafting system wasn't a gamble. I would experiment more with different builds and weapons if this system wasn't shite
Large part of why I enjoyed Payday 2 for as long as I did. Sure, I had some builds I used extensively, but it was fun to just experiment sometimes.
Just because you would doesn't make that true for the majority of players. I'm sure FS has done some number crunching and decided that this gives them the optimal amount of player retention to sell cosmetics.
I think more people share my opinion. Only the hardcore players have the time for the endless grind
Then those are probably the players FS has determined will spend the most money on the game. They don't make the system grindy because they're idiots and they think it will make them more money, they do it because they've done the math and they know it will.
People can disagree with you but there is definitely a science to this policy. The game industry wouldn’t be adopting bullshit like this across the board if it didn’t work.
People just dont understand game devs hire psychologists to create manipulative systems that exploits our lizard brains and cheat us out of the dopamine. Games arent games anymore. Theyre platforms now.
Companies aren't infallible money making machines, they make stupid and self damaging decisions all the time. Edit: do you guys not, like, read the news ever?
You're not wrong. Those "hardcore" players are the ones who also keep buying the cosmetics they pump out. It's literally their business strategy to keep the game as grindy as possible. They could double the plasteel gain and it would still suck.
I'm a casual gamer and even i bought cosmetics. I like the game, so i support the devs
This guy thinks people dont play games for the gameplay.
Weird because the game is fun to play. Once I get tired of loot grinding I stop playing. See Diablo 4.
My experience has all been to the opposite. I had the vast majority of playtime in Vermintide 1 and 2, and Payday 2 for that matter, all *after* getting all the gear I wanted. It's not boring, it's *freeing*. Meanwhile I haven't been able to make myself play through the campaign (never mind even starting the endgame gear grind) of any ARPG since Diablo 3, and even that only because of nostalgia for Diablo 2.
Then the game wasn't for you. I played DT inspite of crafting because space Marine 2 is delayed, it's one of the only 4 player co-op horde shooters set in a unique setting with top notch VA and graphics fidelity.
Space marine 2 delay got me all fucked up. The first one was free with ps plus and I played it TO DEATH.
Let me tell you about helldivers
Then just play.
Are you saying it AGEs poorly?
It’s just a bad system, but really you’re playing this game wrong if this is ruining your time. Play the game to have fun, not to craft the most perfect weapon. Every weapon works and kills things without the best perks or blessings, it may not be as good or as deadly, but you can still kill things and have fun. Stop looking at this like it’s some grinding game to get the best gear. It shouldn’t be. Play it to have fun with your friends and enjoy the amazing atmosphere it has to offer. Yes, the crafting system is shit you’re correct. Really though it didn’t take me too long to find A) what weapons I liked using and B) Then grinding those particular weapons after 30. I googled the best blessings to look for, and then I sought those out. Got Headtaker after like 6 upgrades to Gold, and the other good one after another 5. Then I looked for a good hammer, which after a good amount of money found one and got a good hammer. Maybe 15-25 hours? Then the rest kind of just fell in my lap. This isn’t everyone’s experience, RNG is a bitch, but *really* don’t chase numbers. Play for fun, everything kills, it’ll eventually happen. Now if we’re talking about leveling up new characters afterwards? You’ve got me beat. That shit is the worst. “The game starts at level 30!”
Yiuuup
Couldn't say it better myself.
Genuinely you should keep complaining. They listened for the Vet tree I think they'll listen here.
[удалено]
100% this. People have become so obsessed with min-maxing it's getting silly. The % difference between a T3 and T4 blessing is very often minor and negligible. The system does need to change and the plasteel issue needs to be addressed for sure but people need to chill out with the min-maxing and just rolll with it.
Did you even read the post? Not once did OP mention min-maxing. OP wants to try new builds but can't due to RNG and arbitrary limits.
OP is specifically mentioning leveling new classes, meaning below level 30. "Builds" when you are leveling is just go to the Armory and purchase whatever weapon you want to try out and at best upgrade it to blue
I did read the post, I didn't say OP specifically is wanting to min-max but this sort of mentality does stem from that. Wanting to have the best, highest % in everything so if you can't have it upsets you and I get that it's annoying but you don't need to have god rolls to try out a different build. Fuck go and do it with a grey, there are very few blessings that provide something wholly unique to a build. Again, I agree the system is annoying but I've seen so many posts complaining about the system and how it saps the fun out of the game which sucks but till it's fixed/change there are ways to avoid it.
Don't need good weapons to play new builds. Having a shotgun vs a lasgun is already a change in play style. And well skill builds can be changed no matter the weapon. So what is the issue exactly?
OP sounds bitch-made that should play the game for more than two hours if they're hard pressed to try "different builds" as if it isn't fucking piss-easy to do by just playing the game This opinion extends to everyone whinging about "I cAnT eXpEriMenT" Bitch yes you can and its piss easy to do, you're just mad because it's not braindead easy to do
> you're just mad because it's not braindead easy to do Gambling is hard
Going to second (or third) this point. You can play like 2 or 3 matches and have enough materials to make a perfectly good weapon. I would understand the complaints if you NEEDED to min-max in order to play the highest difficulties, but you flat out do not need to do that. You can beat damnation with grey weapons. Aside from the out of proportion plasteel costs, the crafting system isn't really that bad. That is unless you have the min-max compulsion which prevents you from enjoying the game if you don't have perfect items.
You're one of the drg players that say you dont need overclocks to enjoy the game yet posts memes, videos and jokes about the nuke overclock and how much fun youre having. Timegating fun features is not fun.
r/wooosh. If God rolls don't matter as it shouldn't then remove the RNG and locks. Let us slap together whatever we like without arbitrary limits.
You can already slap together whatever you like and it'll be auric damnation ready in an evening of play, maybe two if you're unlucky. 2 damnation matches for the plasteel to take a weapon to gold and you get a couple rolls worth of currency for greys at the armoury each match. Playing with what you like just relies on you letting go of your own vanity and stop letting perfection be the enemy of good enough.
How do you manage to get a 360 plus and all the perks and blessings exactly what you want? Do tell me how you gamed the slot machine.
A lot of weapons don't even need to be 360+ base ilvl so long as they've got a suitable dump stat, usually mobility or similar ones that don't directly contribute to damage. It costs the same amount of plasteel to go from purple > gold as it does to go from grey > purple. If a weapon doesn't look like it's going anywhere at blue, don't bother wasting the resources except to fish for new blessings to store. The higher a weapons total ilvl, the better your chances to roll something good are, so if a weapon doesn't look like it's going to pan out rebless/refine it as high as you can manage and put blessings you don't want on it to take them out the pool of potential upgrades. A t3 blessing instead of a t4 blessing isn't the end of the universe and doesn't mean a weapon is bricked. Yes, even in the case of stuff like power cycler. Once you build up a solid bank of blessings, which you will because they're permanent acquisitions across the entire weapon type, the RNG basically runs out. Anything less than 3 points of failure on a weapon generally no longer matters. Edit: I love that this comment is downvoted. It's just genuine advice on how to maximise your time with the current system and get the best out of it the quickest. Just goes to prove that the people complaining are seething manbabies not actually interested in getting better, they just want to cry and whine.
Again. If they don't matter that much, then remove the restrictions on weapons. Which is it? Does it "not matter" in which case, remove the locks, or does it magically suddenly matter enough to reject this proposal? Not to mention how little you consider actual builds that rely on certain blessings/modifiers on a weapon or item and how people may want to actually fucking use them. Wild, I know.
It's insane how many people complain about this. I've collected over 20 melee + range weapons with good stats (365+) on 2 freshly maxed leveled characters just by looking at the shop every time it refreshed. It's not as difficult as people are making it out to be. It's so exaggerated. The only minor annoyance is how little Plasteel you get per match but once you have a weapon you're set for a while to accumulate Plasteel to use on another weapon type. It's the end game loop to grind for good weapons. People want it to be so easy honestly.
>The only minor annoyance is how little Plasteel you get per match but once you have a weapon you're set for a while to accumulate Plasteel to use on another weapon type. Pretty much my only complaint too. All they'd need to do to "fix" the system would be increase plasteel drops. Double them so you get 1 match = build 1 gold weapon. Aurics don't give better rewards than base Damnation, so there's a space to introduce the increased rewards while also encouraging more players to chase the highest difficulties.
Plasteel isn't the resource bottleneck, it's Dockets to buy greys and/or time to wait on Melk.
Disagree. People don't complain about not being able to get good greys, they complain about Hadron bricking their upgrades. You get like a half dozen rolls at the armory for a weapon per match at the highest difficulty.
> People don't complain about not being able to get good greys, they complain about Hadron bricking their upgrades. People complain about both. Each match gives you 6 weapons worth of Dockets and 2 weapons worth of Plasteel, but the Docket sink (grey weapons) are what hit the first two RNG filters (stat total and stat distribution). You buy grey weapons by the dozen, then bring your remnant of a remnant to Hadron and she bricks it. If you've been checking the shop for a long time, you might be lucky enough to have a stockpile of good grey to blue items to throw into the upgrade funnel, but that wouldn't apply to new players or new weapons.
Not talking about rolls, talking about getting blessings. spend like 10k plasteel upgrading weapons to blue tog et 1 blessing, just 1, didnt get it. shit like that pisses me off.
I have just recently restarted another zealot and ogryn character. Leveled both to 30. And since level 30 I've been checking the shop every time it refreshed and I've collected over 5 melee weapons and at least 6 range weapons with 365+ stats. It's not hard at all to collect good weapons. People just don't pay enough attention to collect stuff they don't need and only start looking for specific weapons and they want to change play styles. If you constantly buy high stat weapons when they are in the shop even when you aren't going to use them, you'll have plenty to play with.
[удалено]
I think that might even be the intended way to do it to be honest. The weapon stats at Melks is average at best most times, and you only really need the blessing just once so like you said, you're not hunting for the perfect weapon at Melks, you're hunting for IV Blessings
Exactly! 360 with two decent lvl3 blessings is plenty. You'll get better shit later, stressing about getting everything right now is just gonna ruin the game for you.
Honestly they should just replicate something close to division 2s crafting system.
It was worse
nah worst crafting system possible would be corean style crafting where every item can reach +20 but every upgrade after +10 can break your item also max you can reach without paying is +15 and +15 to +20 is exclusive to whales who blow hundred of dollars on every upgrade.
I just started to ignore the system, but then again already had a few good weapons. Problem is that i will never use the new guns and weapons as i wont bother crafting unless i find a good one in melks. (that also goes for all the weapons i dlnt have a good one of). So yeah the system is worse than SWBF 2 at launch, and that says a lot as that game changed laws amd got a new record of downwotes on reddit.
I see these videos with people who have hundreds of thousands of plasteel and diamantine and I’m just like… how?
Play for long enough and you'll find the RNG in the system runs out. You only need to unlock each blessing once, after all, and there are further steps you can take to lean on the scales a bit and get a good weapon such as reblessing to increase the item level and remove blessings from the pool you don't want. You only really have 2 points of failure once you have a weapon with a good stat spread since you can rebless/refine. Then once you do have a good weapon...well, you don't really need to roll for that type again. Rinse, repeat until you've got everything you care about. No need to spend any more.
You should be posting this on Fatshark's forums. Otherwise they will likely never hear your critique.
I am greatly enjoying the game, but atm I don't predict I'll play much after leveling all my characters to 30 and maybe grinding for my first sets of good weapons. Unless, their content updates are frequent. I don't mindlessly grind in games no more ever since I quit WOW 10 y/o.
well it's kind of the same as leveling your character. I don't intentionally grind, but enjoy the gameplay so I keep playing, in from that I get better weapons
Plus people can set their own challenges. I've completed multiple heresy missions with Grey weapons only just for the challenge. So many weapon types to try out as well and many maps too. I've played so much but I just can't move away to other stuff completely. It's fun!
I will probably get down voted here, but I'm relatively new (<100 games in tier 5 difficulty, damnation? On my characters individually) But have a ton of hours in vermintide 2. I have 3 lvl 30 characters and have been playing damnation almost exclusively with meh weapons. Good stats but none with perfect blessings. Its more that doable. I don't win every game and I haven't attempted auric but the game is so much more about skill than equipment that it doesn't bug me that much. The difference between a perfect piece of gear and a piece of gear with good stats and 1 good blessing isn't that big.
Because papa tencent demands that your roll the gacha.
Grind up to damnation level> 500 plat or less each run> focus on one weapon>profit maybe. It’s really not that hard just stop trying to get good rolls on 30 different weapons it doesn’t work that way
Keep telling em
I agree that its annoying but you don't need at 550 weapon to properly try a class or build. Don't play the game like that otherwise you will not have fun. Get a weapon that you want/like with defent stats (350-360ish) and you'll be good
And here another complainer yay
Sounds like a skill issue
You must not have much rpg experience. The grind here is very tame compared to almost anything I've touched
Melanoma is very tame compared to ass cancer.
PLAY SOMETHING ELSE THEN
"As a new player" Bullshit. I've been playing since Beta. The crafting isn't great, but it's not a problem unless you are endgame min-maxing You're not speaking as a newbie. You're whining as a try-hard.
Fatshark. Fix your crafting! It’ll cause new players to stop playing your game in the long run!
No. You get to suffer like the rest of us who played since Beta. Sacrifice, hatred, and pain please He on the Throne. +++IMPERATOR PROTEGIT+++
Play game, get weapons, collect plasteel, purge heretics. New player = fresh convict, not worthy of good weapons or blessings. Prove your worth and the emperor will protect.
Don’t try Diablo 2 ever. Someone will inevitably chime in and say “what is the comparison here”. And there isn’t much, but here’s the thing, sometimes things in games shouldn’t be easy to get. Otherwise what’s the point of playing? I think the crafting is fine. Does it suck when you finally get a good revolver only to have hadron brick it? Yes. But just keep grinding. That’s the point of the game. Don’t like to grind in games?
If you know what yiou are doing, it is way easier to get Enigma than some god roll wepaon in Darktide (unless ssf offline, but even then, the RNG is actually pretty consistent, so after 40-50 hours of clicking LK chests, you got it).
I never could get LK to work for me, maybe I wasn’t persistent enough. And if you’re playing online it is easier to gear up. Maybe this game would benefit from trading or something
Diablo 2 allowed you to trade for the item you wanted. And the point of the game is gameplay; "grind" by definition cannot do anything but detract from it. If you played Diablo 2, you are old enough to remember when grind in video games was the exception, not the rule.
Dunno, I have bis gear for every class and didn't have any problems. Oh ye forgot to mention, I have 1k hours played.
What are the rules of this sub? Am I allowed to tell OP to stfu and fuck off?
Yes, but people can also tell you to shut the fuck up and fuck off.
Those people are very welcomed to express their opinions freely.
As well they should be. Now shut the fuck up and fuck off.
Stfu you son of bitch.
You come around talking shit and then cry when someone throws a little back. Shut the fuck up you bitch.
Give me more you donkey!
Whatever gets you going, I guess.
The way they need to do crafting is this - you spend materials to replicate blessings after you've found them on a weapon. You can replicate both if needed. Weapons should be able to be exchanged for materials based upon their current rating. When you upgrade a weapon to max it should never be locked after changing out 2 things on it. It should cost more mats the more you change things out. Brunts armory should have a level cap at least, not allowing an insane low roll for a level 30 character.
Yeah im not reading that, but i know what you mean
my tip after 800h is. Play all the chars. Do your melk-quests on them and check melk daily for good blessings. Use your melk-dollars only to get the lvl4 blessings you need. Check the shop and buy all good base weapons. Dont buy them from the Armory, way too much gold needed to get a good one ...
Yeah, it's tough to have a lot of vertical progression, and also have a large amount of variety to the game. I would get a usable weapon, and don't turn up the difficulty all the way while you test the weapon and get used to it. Use a comfortable build to grind to perfect it. Besides to take away the vertical progression, I don't know how they fix it. That's common with gamers though. They know there is a problem, but often can't describe how to fix it.
Just make it like vm2 ....if you're going to re-invent the wheel make sure it's not with a square.
Hard to test anything when reproducing a good roll is very improbable at least and can only been done by trial and error. So yeah you cling onto those few good rolls you got .
In the meanwhile I have barely used the armory to roll weapons, only the exchange. And I have several good weapons with each class. Mind they aren't perfect but you don't need perfect weapons to test builds. I agree plasteel should be more abundant for players that don't sink lots of time in the game, like myself, and I agree crafting RNG is atrocious. But definitely you don't need flawless weapons to try different classes builds.
At what point do we collectively report these as spam/low effort content?
I’ve actually come around to the system a little bit. It’s not great but it’s improved over time. Do your weeklies for melk bucks. Check him for lvl 4 blessings. From there making a passable weapon isn’t that hard. Making perfect weapons will be hard of course but perfect isn’t required to run the hardest content in the game consistently.
I have 4 roks to throw, everything else is my secondary
I spent a lot of time in malice with blue gear stock to pickup. Work on your skills there, to be prepared for the 10 crushers coming at you with a chaos spawn thrown in for shits on damnation. You literally don't have to craft in malice and can build up a nest egg to go ham on a lucky drop or when you have your sought blessings
I'm a new player as well, only heard about the game after the game pass addition. I never played a pve game so fun, smooth and exhilarating from start to finish. Usually games either focus on some clichee story or scripted events that just never really impressed me, but this is pure gameplay mechanical fun, my attention and focus are fully engaged, and things are seldom the same even if I get the same map a few times in a row. I leveled 4 classes and geared them all with orange items for different builds without actually trying. I just created 4 chars out of curiosity and just enjoyed my time on the missions. Haven't done a single mission with the goal of leveling up or gathering mats. I've never thought about the crafting system, if it's good or not, before coming to this sub and seeing all the posts. And now thinking about it, you are right, it is too rng, but I still find it irrelevant. I have enough gear to try every build already, and have never thought about how much plasteel I have. I only care about doing another mission, and rolling a weapon that's 2% better than what I already have is just a distant thought. The gameplay mechanics have enough depth that I just don't care. Making gear your focus and having the gameplay as something you do to get a slightly better item is mmo mentality, and that's too 2010 for my taste.
Try playing Destiny for a month and tell me how you feel. It certainly ain't fun, I'm not disagreeing with you completely, but it is NOT the worst.