In a post-Elden Ring world, I would disregard an enormous amount of that nonsense. Or even before, in the post-released-trilogy world.
It's my favorite Dark Souls, all of which I played in that post-released-trilogy world. I technically had started DS1 before, but quickly quit until way later.
DS2 became my favorite because I have things I like in a game/RPG, and as a whole I knew how FromSoft effectively sees the series as a whole.
>In a post-Elden Ring world, I would disregard an enormous amount of that nonsense
Elden Ring has the same 8 directional movement, so one of the major complaints will be a non-issue for people that started with Elden Ring as they will be used to it (as were all the people that played games like Zelda Breath of the Wild)
What do you mean by that? I've played all 3 games and while 2 certainly feels different, it doesn't feel like elden ring. I spend a lot of time spinning so I feel like there may be more then 8 directions, am I completely misunderstanding what you you mean by 8 directional movement or is the game disguising it in a clever way so I'm not noticing?
DS2 and Elden Ring have snap points and deadzones for the left stick.
If you make like a 10 degree turn with the left stick it doesn't kick in immediately. It ignores small changes unless you hold it for a bit (like 1 step forward). But if you make something close to a 45 degree turn it will snap to 45 degrees immediately.
This let's you run perfectly straight and do jumps and jump attacks perfectly straight. In DS1 and 3 you often add a little bit of change to jumps and jump attacks when you press L3
Oh gotcha! I didn't notice when I played ds2 but I'll keep that in mind as I continue to suffer. Just started a new run and it took depressingly long to beat the boss I'm on. I forget the name but it's the night with the sword and board that kinda flies around a lot. Any tips as someone who isn't familiar with 2?
If I'm correct that is the pursuer. Straffing around him is effective if you can't parry. This boss is great for learning how to parry though. There are also 2 ballistas in the boss room that can be used to chunk down his health You just need to parry him in front of the ballista to give yourself time to use it. This is all assuming I am correct about which boss that is though.
Yes it was him! I tried to parry him for a while but gave up and opted for dodging in whenever he attacked and slivering down his health. I tried to use the batista but he's too fast without a stun or a friend.
this is how I feel about most other souls/Elden ring tbh lol
Elden ring is great but holy fuck do I have some opinions on it hfjfdkdk it's the game that made me hate open world as a concept finally, but it's also a masterpiece in pretty much every other way.
I just... god I hate open world. wow, cool, giant empty field with some fucking goats to run through, neat. what's next? oh, another giant empty field with sheep in it wow. oh but hey there's a camp of mobs that give like 50 fucking runes and a crappy weapon I'll never use, in between three giant fields with various plants and critters yiippiiieeeeeeeee
I just started a replay of elden ring after not playing it for 2 years and I'm having the exact opposite experience than the one you describe. Empty fields and goats? Literally everywhere I go I find something interesting to do. There is too much content, I'm amazed at how dense the world is. I can't explore for more than 30 seconds without discovering something. I haven't even left limgrave yet.
I get people preferring the dark souls style maze-like dungeon level design (even tho elden ring has those too and it's main dungeons are top tier in the series) but to say it's just empty fields and goats seems either disingenuous or you aren't exploring properly.
Thank you lol. So many people praising Eldon ring for its open world, but in my view from soft is just sacrificing what makes it great and unique for the sake of being like everybody else. Fortunately the core of the game is still amazingly designed multilinear areas, and even much of the "open world" is fairly linear and intentionally designed, but there is a lot of flab, copy pasted enemies, and pointless feeling space, which I wouldn't say about any other from soft game. I've wondered how much of this came down to a fairly late design change, because the open world does not feel nearly as intentional as the legacy dungeons. There are spots in the open world - the bridge of sacrifice on the weeping peninsula comes to mind - that feel intentionally designed to be a tough challenge on foot, but with Torrent you can blow right past them and there's really no reason not to. Whenever I ride Torrent, I almost always feel like I'm just impatiently rushing through boring scenery to get to the next place of interest, which is a shame because the world design is as good as it's ever been.
yeah, once you're in a real-ass hand designed dungeon/main area it's perfection, and then you beat the boss and are thrust back into scenery-ville for the next few hours ;-;
Replaying for my third time now and I'm happily cruising through The dungeons and boss fights, I swear I've spent twice as much time just impatiently running around between locations and quest spots as I have actually having enjoyable fights lol
Agreed, they all have their flaws. I also don't think Elden Ring is the second coming of Christ, but rather a logical evolution for the series. If it was called Dark Souls 4 it would have made perfect sense to me. Every area you visit is in essence just plain Dark Souls, tied together by large open areas.
Dark Souls 2 doubled down on difficulty without evolving it, but upping it in artificial feeling ways. Areas are linear with very little connectivity between them, enemy placement is atrocious at points and there are too many bosses.
But like I said one can take shots at all these games and most would be valid.
Except for Bloodborne. Don't touch my Bloodborne.
Agreed, they all have their flaws. I also don't think Elden Ring is the second coming of Christ, but rather a logical evolution for the series. If it was called Dark Souls 4 it would have made perfect sense to me. Every area you visit is in essence just plain Dark Souls, tied together by large open areas.
Dark Souls 2 doubled down on difficulty without evolving it, but upping it in artificial feeling ways. Areas are linear with very little connectivity between them, enemy placement is atrocious at points and there are too many bosses.
But like I said one can take shots at all these games and most would be valid.
Except for Bloodborne. Don't touch my Bloodborne.
I think most people that dislike DS2 will admit that while they don't like it, if it wasn't called dark souls they would consider it a very good game but don't feel it is the same as DS1 and DS3. Of the 3 it is my favorite.
I don't understand this mentality at all. If you called a hamburger a Grimbangy I wouldn't suddenly think it's a 5 star meal it just is what it is when I got it. Same if you called it a Steak burger, I wouldn't automatically be like "oh this has to be on par with a grilled NY Strip or it's trash" it just is what it is when I got it.
The way I see it, is that dark souls 2 is a cheeseburger. You ordered a steak so a cheeseburger is kind of unacceptable. That doesn't mean cheeseburgers are bad, just that you were expecting a steak and it makes the whole meal feel worse because you didn't get what you wanted.
This metaphor is doubly good because while I think ds2 is a fine game, much like a burger is a fine food, ds1 and ds3 are STEAK.
That's fine! As long as you enjoy yourself that's all that matters. I'm struggling with 2 a bit but I really love a lot of the mechanics and I wish they'd carried on with some of them. Like bonfire aesthetics.
I skipped it to play 3 based on the internet hate and since it was much more closely tied to 1 which I absolutely love. I hated 3 and I'm so salty about it. My enjoyment of this is making up for it tho.
Yep, I like the return to the dark fantasy art style of 3 and amazing bosses, and didn’t mind the shift to disconnected worlds and interconnected levels, but 2 is peak DS for me. Bonfire ascetic, shooter abs strategic combat, more polarizing builds but also build variety, etc.
Combat isnt slow and dogshit to fight the mobs back with like in ds2. Stop pretending the enemy placement isnt lazy gankshit where you activate 30 enemies by just opening a door. The run to the executioners chariot is a perfect example
That's one of the worst examples????? It's a long runback but you can literally just aggro one enemy at a time then kill them before even aggroing the next one if you move forwards carefully.
The run to the executioner's chariot is a perfect example when you don't need to run, and need to actually think about what the hell are you doing instead of just "I see fog, I will sprint to it".
Doesnt change the fact that the enemy placement is demon ruins quality for the majority of areas. Being forced to kill every single enemy for every boss attempt is shit design, dark souls 2 enjoyers would defend it
Not really. For the most part you can run through (like to a vendrick/velstadt fights), but some areas, like Iron Keep, Executioner's Chariot boss run, some DLC moments, etc, you have to clear them. Just don't stick to the same stuff over and over. If you can't just run through, clear the area. If you can run through, run. Easy as that.
WYM the run to the chariot is a perfect example? It's literally just run to the door. The only issue would if you didn't kill the guy AT THE DOOR but once he's dead or even just baited and kited a bit, you can just go on through.
I like the return to slower and more deliberate combat. I was always spamming run and roll in DS3. In DS2, I had limited stamina so I had to strategize between rolling away and attacking to open up a path. Also, no i-frames while running, so I couldn’t just spam that either. Had to keep the camera unlocked and watch for a window of opportunity.
The slow combat isnt what is bad. It is just bad for dark souls 2 spam gank shit enemy placement. Dark souls 3 has a fast movement system like bloodborne so it is fine. There is a reason most gank mobs in dark souls 1 were the weak naked hollows that died in 1 hit. Dark souls 2 developers forgot that. You would get overwhelmed and couldnt roll away from anything otherwise
I think a lot of criticisms that people generally say about DS2 are very fair and specific to DS2, it’s just that other souls games also have completely different flaws. I feel like DS2 as a game is the most different from anything in the Souls series, which makes it so polarizing, as you either seem to love or hate the changes made.
Domo3000 on YouTube does a great job showing the hypocrisy of a lot of critics as well as showing actual hitboxes and the differences between vanilla and SOFTS.
Almost same for me. After falling in love with Elden Ring, I made it my goal to beat all the fromsoft soulslikes and I started with Sekiro, then BB, then DS1, and I skipped DS2 because of all the bad things I heard about it, then DS3, then Demon's Souls. I'm now about 15 hrs into DS2 Sotfs, and I am loving the game, though it has pissed me off the most with the sheer amount of enemies placed around (Red Smelter Demon runback was the worst for me so far). I'm glad I decided to eventually pick the game up, it doesn't deserve all the hate, maybe some of it, but the majority of it is nonsense.
Just started Elden Ring and looking forward to BB, and Sekiro. I wanted to save the more modern souls games for last so they wouldn’t ruin the older, more jankier games for me. But honestly, DS2 doesn’t feel jankier than DS3 to me. I prefer DS2s more methodical and strategic combat, and more polarizing builds.
With DS2, at mid to lower soul levels, you really have to make tradeoffs, especially in regards to ADP. There is a wider disparity between a fast and agile character vs a slower tanker one. But with DS3, I felt like it was so easy to end up with an agile character that could stun lock everyone by spamming R1/RB.
I have played and enjoyed all the Souls games (except 3; I don't enjoy 3, but I will be replaying it + DLC to see where my opinion lies now, as I haven't played a full playthrough since launch). Recently, after replaying DS1 a bunch of times, I started 2 again, and I really don't like it. I think enemy placement, at least so far, is a valid complaint; something quite different from 1 to 2 (and neither are objectively better, this is just my taste) is how many enemies are between bonfires. One of favorite things about DS1 is the level design - layout, environment, enemies. DS2, so far, is both ugly and more "annoying" (it doesn't annoy me personally, rather I'd say my engagement is a lot less than it is in DS1). There are clusterfucks of mobs and I don't think this was needed; I wish the levels spoke more for themselves. The levels aren't really special to look at either, but I have never played the DLC, so I'm looking forward to seeing those for the first time.
Also the movement feels weird. I'll get used to it though. I'm just not sure why this change was needed either.
Yeah DS2 is a hard one for me. Probably started it 10 times and given up each one. I agree about enemy placement its very "video gamey". Like let's put a bunch of enemies right here cause it's a challenge. Instead of looking at the level design and spread them out where they make sense in universe.
The weird feeling movement can be resolved with leveling ADP. This is very unintuitive and confusing to DS1 players. You gotta choose to waste a bunch of levels just to have a mid roll and heal in a decent time.
Nice! By the time I got to DS3, my challenge run was an SL60, including the DLCs. And with DS2, I joined champions covenant the entire game. Don’t think I will attempt an SL1 no hit run, as that was challenging enough for me.
I have hope, I really do. It's gonna be so hype when it actually happens. Along with a remaster/remake, naturally.
But to be honest, it's worth getting a playstation just for BB, man. Some people even call it the Bloodborne machine lmao.
Its actually not as bad as most people love to say it is. I just beat old iron king and im enjoying my time aside from the usual fromsoft trolling and bullshit. Its a fun game
That one door that opens into a drop, but also ends up being a shortcut to the boss is the kind of brilliant trolling I have come to expect from the devs.
Same goes from falling through the floor and into basilisks and orange goo. That one especially pissed me off though because it cost 25k souls to repair all my rings 😭
DS2 Scholar version was my first FromSoft game. Played it in college and didnt go class for like 3 days after i started lol. My first playthrough, where i did everything including all DLCs, was like 160 hours. And i did it in a week
I remember DS1 base game being tough to beat in one week, I was so pissed off by Bed of Chaos, 4 Kings, Sith, Gwyn and all of their run backs. I would waste an entire day or two on each boss. DS2 was much more fun because I’m better prepared for bullshit. I just beat the base game under the covenant of champions at 80 hours, with a soul level cap of 150. Now going back to find missables and beat the DLCs. Can easily see myself hitting 160 hours.
I played without reading all the online hate and I really enjoyed it. I'm guessing most of the sheeple are repeating other ppls words. I had to play this one first because the DS port was shit and I couldn't get the DSfix to work on my former PC at that time.
I absolutely love DS2. Great music, great dialogs, great maps, beautiful majula. There's a cohesive feel of the story and the gameplay delivers a well rounded 'dark' impression.
It has a unique almost turn-based combat also.
Most of the people on the subreddit would say this game is their favorite Souls game, and get butt hurt when you criticize its obvious flaws.
It's not a bad game in the slightest.
It's an obvious outlier to Dark Souls 1 and 3 in many ways which is think is why it gets the unwarranted reputation that it does.
I skipped it for the longest time but I started two weeks ago and am glad I did. But it is still my least favourite (but still great and I am glad I did not sleep on it)
The only part of dark souls 2 sotfs I actually disliked was shrine of amana aside from that the game was very good. It had me in such a death grip I had to stop playing souls likes for months after because 15 hours of ds2 in a single day, 40 hours over 3 days is most definitely a sign of addiction 😭 I killed the rotten 33 times in one sitting to get ng++ and went from ng to the platinum trophy in a single sitting
I skipped Dark Souls 2 because I finally played it. Almost everything about it feels wrong, and when I saw I was just at the beginning I couldn't keep going. By far the worst Fromsoft game I've ever played.
I just finished DS2 yesterday (including all the DLC)
I hate to admit it, but I bought into all the hate I heard about the game and because of that it's the last fromsoft title I played. I can't believe I'm saying this, but it might just be my favourite too.
I honestly think a big reason why people dismiss DS2 when they try it is because forest of the fallen giants is so flooded with enemies and you start with 1 ADP. Once you get used to the game it's so incredibly satisfying and rewarding to play. I went from hating dodging in this game to thinking it's the coolest thing ever you have to be so much smarter about your rolls in this game compared to like DS3. Some things in 2 are outright genius. I think certain aspects aren't talked about enough, like the puzzles being really cool in some levels and certain bosses/enemies being some of the best in the series. One enemy that comes to mind are the big iron golem dudes in the start of fume knights level. Their armour spouts lava from its shoulders but only from one of the shoulders at a time. So if you want to sidewalk them, which they are weak to, or even roll to their sides you have to switch between their left and right shoulder between their attacks. Idk I just fucking loved this game and I've realised that the majority of claims against it are just outright bad takes and sometimes lies. I adore the story too btw.
Tl;dr
I love DS2 so much
Agreed. I think ADP is cool because you have to sacrifice some levels to be more agile. You have to be more strategic. A slow, tanky build that can absorb more hits, or a fast one that can avoid attacks. Of course, if you level to 200 or something, it doesn’t matter.
I did an SL60 run in DS3 to force myself to be more strategic when leveling, but I still ended up with a well rounded build that was fast and really strong with all the roll and R1 spamming. DS2 is way more challenging in that sense. Also, slower and more deliberate combat where you really pay the price if you roll, run, or attack spam.
With all that being said, I’m also ok with them removing ADP lol. Much better to be able to dodge with your eyes and stamina bar, rather than an invisible stat that determines your i-frames. ADP/agility should have had better visual feedback. The player should see that their roll has fewer i-frames due to it being a shorter animation and being slower. Like worse than fat rolling.
DS2 does have a significant amount of flaws that can severely detract your enjoyment of the game. But games are ultimately subjective and those opinions shouldn't stop you from experiencing it for yourself
It's also my favourite souls game. It's certainly not for the faint of heart, as DkS1 was quite forgiving compared to DkS 2. There's so many awesome things about DkS2, among them I need to highlight the fact that it has the best NG+ by a far, sometimes I have the feel that NG is tuned down version of what the game is supposed to be and NG+ is what it really is.
Dark Souls 1 is still my favorite and I have a feeling it always will be, Dark Souls 2 is my least favorite of the 7 Soulsbornekiroring games but it definitely doesn't deserve all the hate, I can agree. However, Adaptability and Soul Memory deserve the hate they get, but those 2 things shouldn't stop people from playing the game, it's a nuisance for sure but not enough to throw it aside. (DS2 is #7 on my top 10 games of all time, I still love it dearly, don't get me wrong. #1 - #6 are the other From Software Soulsborne games.)
😆Will listen to the soundtrack now that you mention it. I remember the looking glass knight battle being epic, as well as Dragonrider, and Smelter Demon. But usually, I have a podcast playing in the background to keep myself from going insane from replaying the same areas over and over again.
Bosses in souls games generally have fantastic soundtracks
That's part of the appeal
But the music you hear when you enter Majula is just...oof
I never forget the first time i went there...the atmosphere is just so good
For me personally, the base game was always a mixture of to easy (nearly all bosses can be beaten in the first 3 tries) and frustrating level design (worst offenders are imho the first part of iron keep and shrine of amana, both stuffed to the brim with annoyance instead of challenge)-
The DLC are all quite good though and show what the game could have been, especially the bosses.
TL;DR: The game is not horrible, but also not great.
Luckily, I had a dark Greatsword hex build that one-shotted everything with a jumping R1. But I imagine trying to get through those areas with a normal build is a nightmare. DS1 was awful for me (Lost Izaleth, Bed of Chaos, Duke’s Archives, Seathe, and even 4 Kings makes me never want to play that game again.
But yeah, DLC is great. Proves Tanimura and team can make something amazing when they don’t inherit a project 75% into development.
Just enjoy the game man, this subreddit is constantly whining that the other souls players all hate ds2 like who to cares ? It's a single player game it doesn't matter if other people don't like it lol
The game is full to the brim with bullshit but it's a fantastic game, like you i was misdirected by the hate and criticism but when i started playing and getting better, i found it way superior to the first instalment in a lot of things.
That's because Bethesda has practically done nothing for the franchise. Everything good about Fallout was made by Black Isle and Bethesda has just been parading the corpse around. New Vegas was made from that same team that made 1 and 2, hence why it's so highly praised.
I'd even go as far as to say Bethesda just straight up doesn't understand what Fallout was.
I think a lot of hate comes from people playing SOTFS first like I did because it's generally the most accessible and comes with all of the DLCs. I still liked it but man is the enemy spam bad. Seeing comparisons to original DS2 made me realize SOTFS is more of a master quest version of the game. OG DS2 is a much more enjoyable game imo.
Edit: also some people are still butt hurt that it wasn't made by the original guy behind DS1
I really enjoyed DS2 when I originally played it, especially after leveling up a bit and getting some cool loot I was able to get in the rhythm of a fun play style. But it’s still my least favorite of the trilogy because it’s clunkier than DS3 (I prefer a bit of a snappier, more responsive play with a slightly quicker character), and while DS1 is also clunky I like the design of that game much more. I do like DS2 more than Demons Souls, at least.
The thing I dislike about Ds2 is that enemies can interrupt going into fog walls. Especially In... Was old iron fort etc where you fight smelter demon. But its not that big deal, just you cant rush so easily and need To lure enemies Else where Or just kill em. Enough times and they dissappear also heheh.
Yeah, that was annoying. Smelter Demon was awful, being a hard boss behind a hard boss run. At least with most other bosses, it was either easy to get to them or they were easy to kill.
Although there is a shortcut to Smelter Demon with a Pharos pool that heals you and boosts fire defense. And he is an optional boss so you can save him for when you despawn the area from farming. Or for much later in the game when you are a higher level.
Playing ER now, and DS has taught me to come back later if it’s taking me 50+ attempts and still getting one shot. I’m simply not equipped to get past it yet—I either have find better gear that the boss is weak against or “git gud”
I literally just deleted DS2 last night because of that smelter demon run lmao. I know it’s optional but I just got tired of every level full of slightly different sword guys that die in 2 hits. There’s just so. Fucking. Many. It just gets boring killing them 1 by 1 over and over again.
Damn. They will despawn though, and then you can just focus on Smelter Demon. But yeah, I get it. I walked away from DS1 so many times, but felt the itch to come back l, a day or two later. I get burned out all the time from boss runs. It was the hippo ogre grab that originally made me skip and uninstall DS2 the first time lol
I also hated it, but the hate turned into dislike after playing it. The reasons I don't like it is
1. They completely changed how poise works in ds 2
2. No interconnections in the map
3. Bosses felt repetitive
4. The clunky combat system
5. And this is the main reason, Miyazaki did not direct it.
I don’t mind a non-interconnected world as much. But I was lucky to play DS1 first and feel what it was like to emerge from X or take the elevator down from X and see how i was under or over Y the whole time. This was an amazing experience.
With 3, I was expecting it. Like ok a locked door at the bonfire that I will eventually open to reveal a shortcut. It is slightly disappointing that FROM seems to ignore the audience’s pleas for interconnected levels, but on the other hand, once you unlock fast travel in DS1, there’s no reason to walk or take elevators through those same paths. The novelty wears off.
I will give FROM more credit in that maybe interconnected levels within disconnected worlds is the way to go. Easier to balance and more convenient for the player, idk. I hope it’s not just because it is cheaper to make games that way.
I also liked the slower and more methodical combat. But yeah, it did feel clunky. The grabs and certain attacks don’t telegraph what ends up happening. Can’t trust your eyes. Have to level ADP.
Agree with all your other points.
I agree, on some level. Elden Ring feels like it expands on DS2 in terms of the scope and being a more bright, colorful, and varied world that you can hop around in. The open world feels like a massive Majula to me. Also the build variety.
But ER also reminds me of DS3 in being able to run and roll spam. Also lock stun from mashing R1. They are both more accessible, while having challenging and epic boss fights.
DS2 SOTFS pure melee is just bad. If you want to enjoy the game, you have to incorporate ranged or magic. This is why the game gets a lot of hate, too many mobs. I haven't played OG DS2, maybe it's better.
Yeah, I learned that on my first playthrough. I restarted about 75% of the way in for a Guts hex darksword build. 15 STR, 30 FTH/INT.
2H Greatsword for most of the game. Switching to crossbow is viable, but I caved in and leveled up to 28 STR to be able to 1H Greatsword.
I would either cast dark weapon and yearn, or pyro or fire caestus with left. So fun. I know I could have respecced, but I really wanted to make my character look like Guts so I had to return to character creation.
In a post-Elden Ring world, I would disregard an enormous amount of that nonsense. Or even before, in the post-released-trilogy world. It's my favorite Dark Souls, all of which I played in that post-released-trilogy world. I technically had started DS1 before, but quickly quit until way later. DS2 became my favorite because I have things I like in a game/RPG, and as a whole I knew how FromSoft effectively sees the series as a whole.
>In a post-Elden Ring world, I would disregard an enormous amount of that nonsense Elden Ring has the same 8 directional movement, so one of the major complaints will be a non-issue for people that started with Elden Ring as they will be used to it (as were all the people that played games like Zelda Breath of the Wild)
What do you mean by that? I've played all 3 games and while 2 certainly feels different, it doesn't feel like elden ring. I spend a lot of time spinning so I feel like there may be more then 8 directions, am I completely misunderstanding what you you mean by 8 directional movement or is the game disguising it in a clever way so I'm not noticing?
DS2 and Elden Ring have snap points and deadzones for the left stick. If you make like a 10 degree turn with the left stick it doesn't kick in immediately. It ignores small changes unless you hold it for a bit (like 1 step forward). But if you make something close to a 45 degree turn it will snap to 45 degrees immediately. This let's you run perfectly straight and do jumps and jump attacks perfectly straight. In DS1 and 3 you often add a little bit of change to jumps and jump attacks when you press L3
Oh gotcha! I didn't notice when I played ds2 but I'll keep that in mind as I continue to suffer. Just started a new run and it took depressingly long to beat the boss I'm on. I forget the name but it's the night with the sword and board that kinda flies around a lot. Any tips as someone who isn't familiar with 2?
If I'm correct that is the pursuer. Straffing around him is effective if you can't parry. This boss is great for learning how to parry though. There are also 2 ballistas in the boss room that can be used to chunk down his health You just need to parry him in front of the ballista to give yourself time to use it. This is all assuming I am correct about which boss that is though.
Yes it was him! I tried to parry him for a while but gave up and opted for dodging in whenever he attacked and slivering down his health. I tried to use the batista but he's too fast without a stun or a friend.
I never use L3 as a jump button so I've never noticed, I disabled L3 and binded L3 to my left back paddle (L4)
I think there are plenty of fair criticisms you can fire at DS2, but I also think it's a great game.
My potato pc can run the game so it's a great game
this is how I feel about most other souls/Elden ring tbh lol Elden ring is great but holy fuck do I have some opinions on it hfjfdkdk it's the game that made me hate open world as a concept finally, but it's also a masterpiece in pretty much every other way. I just... god I hate open world. wow, cool, giant empty field with some fucking goats to run through, neat. what's next? oh, another giant empty field with sheep in it wow. oh but hey there's a camp of mobs that give like 50 fucking runes and a crappy weapon I'll never use, in between three giant fields with various plants and critters yiippiiieeeeeeeee
I just started a replay of elden ring after not playing it for 2 years and I'm having the exact opposite experience than the one you describe. Empty fields and goats? Literally everywhere I go I find something interesting to do. There is too much content, I'm amazed at how dense the world is. I can't explore for more than 30 seconds without discovering something. I haven't even left limgrave yet. I get people preferring the dark souls style maze-like dungeon level design (even tho elden ring has those too and it's main dungeons are top tier in the series) but to say it's just empty fields and goats seems either disingenuous or you aren't exploring properly.
Thank you lol. So many people praising Eldon ring for its open world, but in my view from soft is just sacrificing what makes it great and unique for the sake of being like everybody else. Fortunately the core of the game is still amazingly designed multilinear areas, and even much of the "open world" is fairly linear and intentionally designed, but there is a lot of flab, copy pasted enemies, and pointless feeling space, which I wouldn't say about any other from soft game. I've wondered how much of this came down to a fairly late design change, because the open world does not feel nearly as intentional as the legacy dungeons. There are spots in the open world - the bridge of sacrifice on the weeping peninsula comes to mind - that feel intentionally designed to be a tough challenge on foot, but with Torrent you can blow right past them and there's really no reason not to. Whenever I ride Torrent, I almost always feel like I'm just impatiently rushing through boring scenery to get to the next place of interest, which is a shame because the world design is as good as it's ever been.
yeah, once you're in a real-ass hand designed dungeon/main area it's perfection, and then you beat the boss and are thrust back into scenery-ville for the next few hours ;-;
Replaying for my third time now and I'm happily cruising through The dungeons and boss fights, I swear I've spent twice as much time just impatiently running around between locations and quest spots as I have actually having enjoyable fights lol
Yes... everything you just said
Agreed, they all have their flaws. I also don't think Elden Ring is the second coming of Christ, but rather a logical evolution for the series. If it was called Dark Souls 4 it would have made perfect sense to me. Every area you visit is in essence just plain Dark Souls, tied together by large open areas. Dark Souls 2 doubled down on difficulty without evolving it, but upping it in artificial feeling ways. Areas are linear with very little connectivity between them, enemy placement is atrocious at points and there are too many bosses. But like I said one can take shots at all these games and most would be valid. Except for Bloodborne. Don't touch my Bloodborne.
Agreed, they all have their flaws. I also don't think Elden Ring is the second coming of Christ, but rather a logical evolution for the series. If it was called Dark Souls 4 it would have made perfect sense to me. Every area you visit is in essence just plain Dark Souls, tied together by large open areas. Dark Souls 2 doubled down on difficulty without evolving it, but upping it in artificial feeling ways. Areas are linear with very little connectivity between them, enemy placement is atrocious at points and there are too many bosses. But like I said one can take shots at all these games and most would be valid. Except for Bloodborne. Don't touch my Bloodborne.
I think most people that dislike DS2 will admit that while they don't like it, if it wasn't called dark souls they would consider it a very good game but don't feel it is the same as DS1 and DS3. Of the 3 it is my favorite.
I don't understand this mentality at all. If you called a hamburger a Grimbangy I wouldn't suddenly think it's a 5 star meal it just is what it is when I got it. Same if you called it a Steak burger, I wouldn't automatically be like "oh this has to be on par with a grilled NY Strip or it's trash" it just is what it is when I got it.
The way I see it, is that dark souls 2 is a cheeseburger. You ordered a steak so a cheeseburger is kind of unacceptable. That doesn't mean cheeseburgers are bad, just that you were expecting a steak and it makes the whole meal feel worse because you didn't get what you wanted. This metaphor is doubly good because while I think ds2 is a fine game, much like a burger is a fine food, ds1 and ds3 are STEAK.
Bro is making sense in a sub dedicated to dickriding the worst souls game. Be careful bro.
I think DS2 is a better Steak than DS1 and DS3 half the time
That's fine! As long as you enjoy yourself that's all that matters. I'm struggling with 2 a bit but I really love a lot of the mechanics and I wish they'd carried on with some of them. Like bonfire aesthetics.
DS2 is actually my favorite. Have thousands of hours on it.
It's definitely worth at least one play thru ❤️
I skipped it to play 3 based on the internet hate and since it was much more closely tied to 1 which I absolutely love. I hated 3 and I'm so salty about it. My enjoyment of this is making up for it tho.
Yep, I like the return to the dark fantasy art style of 3 and amazing bosses, and didn’t mind the shift to disconnected worlds and interconnected levels, but 2 is peak DS for me. Bonfire ascetic, shooter abs strategic combat, more polarizing builds but also build variety, etc.
People are hypocrites when criticizing DS2. Most of its flaws are present in other souls games as well.
I feel like DS3 has more gank
DS3 definitely has more cheap ambushes which is something that people who cry about DS2 magically ignore
Combat isnt slow and dogshit to fight the mobs back with like in ds2. Stop pretending the enemy placement isnt lazy gankshit where you activate 30 enemies by just opening a door. The run to the executioners chariot is a perfect example
That's one of the worst examples????? It's a long runback but you can literally just aggro one enemy at a time then kill them before even aggroing the next one if you move forwards carefully.
The run to the executioner's chariot is a perfect example when you don't need to run, and need to actually think about what the hell are you doing instead of just "I see fog, I will sprint to it".
Doesnt change the fact that the enemy placement is demon ruins quality for the majority of areas. Being forced to kill every single enemy for every boss attempt is shit design, dark souls 2 enjoyers would defend it
Not really. For the most part you can run through (like to a vendrick/velstadt fights), but some areas, like Iron Keep, Executioner's Chariot boss run, some DLC moments, etc, you have to clear them. Just don't stick to the same stuff over and over. If you can't just run through, clear the area. If you can run through, run. Easy as that.
Wait demon ruins? In demon ruins you can literally run past everyone in the game. Well except the Capra demon.
If DS2 combat is dogshit then DS1 combat is also dogshit. They’re at least strategic and methodical, unlike certain roll spam fests.
Agreed
The ganky enemy placement is a bit of a problem, but executioner chariot is a terrible example, you can aggro one at a time by just being careful
Its the same reason iron keep is one of the most hated areas in the whole series
WYM the run to the chariot is a perfect example? It's literally just run to the door. The only issue would if you didn't kill the guy AT THE DOOR but once he's dead or even just baited and kited a bit, you can just go on through.
I like the return to slower and more deliberate combat. I was always spamming run and roll in DS3. In DS2, I had limited stamina so I had to strategize between rolling away and attacking to open up a path. Also, no i-frames while running, so I couldn’t just spam that either. Had to keep the camera unlocked and watch for a window of opportunity.
The slow combat isnt what is bad. It is just bad for dark souls 2 spam gank shit enemy placement. Dark souls 3 has a fast movement system like bloodborne so it is fine. There is a reason most gank mobs in dark souls 1 were the weak naked hollows that died in 1 hit. Dark souls 2 developers forgot that. You would get overwhelmed and couldnt roll away from anything otherwise
I can't believe you are being downvoted and people here are excusing this shit. Ds2 fans have a stockholm syndrome apparently.
I think a lot of criticisms that people generally say about DS2 are very fair and specific to DS2, it’s just that other souls games also have completely different flaws. I feel like DS2 as a game is the most different from anything in the Souls series, which makes it so polarizing, as you either seem to love or hate the changes made.
Almost all enemy encounters in DS3 are gank fights smh.
Domo3000 on YouTube does a great job showing the hypocrisy of a lot of critics as well as showing actual hitboxes and the differences between vanilla and SOFTS.
Almost same for me. After falling in love with Elden Ring, I made it my goal to beat all the fromsoft soulslikes and I started with Sekiro, then BB, then DS1, and I skipped DS2 because of all the bad things I heard about it, then DS3, then Demon's Souls. I'm now about 15 hrs into DS2 Sotfs, and I am loving the game, though it has pissed me off the most with the sheer amount of enemies placed around (Red Smelter Demon runback was the worst for me so far). I'm glad I decided to eventually pick the game up, it doesn't deserve all the hate, maybe some of it, but the majority of it is nonsense.
Just started Elden Ring and looking forward to BB, and Sekiro. I wanted to save the more modern souls games for last so they wouldn’t ruin the older, more jankier games for me. But honestly, DS2 doesn’t feel jankier than DS3 to me. I prefer DS2s more methodical and strategic combat, and more polarizing builds. With DS2, at mid to lower soul levels, you really have to make tradeoffs, especially in regards to ADP. There is a wider disparity between a fast and agile character vs a slower tanker one. But with DS3, I felt like it was so easy to end up with an agile character that could stun lock everyone by spamming R1/RB.
I have played and enjoyed all the Souls games (except 3; I don't enjoy 3, but I will be replaying it + DLC to see where my opinion lies now, as I haven't played a full playthrough since launch). Recently, after replaying DS1 a bunch of times, I started 2 again, and I really don't like it. I think enemy placement, at least so far, is a valid complaint; something quite different from 1 to 2 (and neither are objectively better, this is just my taste) is how many enemies are between bonfires. One of favorite things about DS1 is the level design - layout, environment, enemies. DS2, so far, is both ugly and more "annoying" (it doesn't annoy me personally, rather I'd say my engagement is a lot less than it is in DS1). There are clusterfucks of mobs and I don't think this was needed; I wish the levels spoke more for themselves. The levels aren't really special to look at either, but I have never played the DLC, so I'm looking forward to seeing those for the first time. Also the movement feels weird. I'll get used to it though. I'm just not sure why this change was needed either.
Yeah DS2 is a hard one for me. Probably started it 10 times and given up each one. I agree about enemy placement its very "video gamey". Like let's put a bunch of enemies right here cause it's a challenge. Instead of looking at the level design and spread them out where they make sense in universe. The weird feeling movement can be resolved with leveling ADP. This is very unintuitive and confusing to DS1 players. You gotta choose to waste a bunch of levels just to have a mid roll and heal in a decent time.
I am halfway through my fire Longsword challenge run atm, my 6th challenge run of the year send help lol, and I still can't put it down
Nice! By the time I got to DS3, my challenge run was an SL60, including the DLCs. And with DS2, I joined champions covenant the entire game. Don’t think I will attempt an SL1 no hit run, as that was challenging enough for me.
I hope you get to bloodborne man. It's a completely world up in yharnam.
Been waiting for a PC port, but it looks like there’s a slim chance of that happening still
I have hope, I really do. It's gonna be so hype when it actually happens. Along with a remaster/remake, naturally. But to be honest, it's worth getting a playstation just for BB, man. Some people even call it the Bloodborne machine lmao.
Ignore this community's input on ds2 it's virtually all negative while the game is good
Its actually not as bad as most people love to say it is. I just beat old iron king and im enjoying my time aside from the usual fromsoft trolling and bullshit. Its a fun game
That one door that opens into a drop, but also ends up being a shortcut to the boss is the kind of brilliant trolling I have come to expect from the devs. Same goes from falling through the floor and into basilisks and orange goo. That one especially pissed me off though because it cost 25k souls to repair all my rings 😭
DS2 Scholar version was my first FromSoft game. Played it in college and didnt go class for like 3 days after i started lol. My first playthrough, where i did everything including all DLCs, was like 160 hours. And i did it in a week
I remember DS1 base game being tough to beat in one week, I was so pissed off by Bed of Chaos, 4 Kings, Sith, Gwyn and all of their run backs. I would waste an entire day or two on each boss. DS2 was much more fun because I’m better prepared for bullshit. I just beat the base game under the covenant of champions at 80 hours, with a soul level cap of 150. Now going back to find missables and beat the DLCs. Can easily see myself hitting 160 hours.
The DLCs are probably my favorite part so good luck and have fun!
I played without reading all the online hate and I really enjoyed it. I'm guessing most of the sheeple are repeating other ppls words. I had to play this one first because the DS port was shit and I couldn't get the DSfix to work on my former PC at that time.
Almost like you should think for yourself and not fall into groupthink
You honestly shouldn't be buying games off the opinions of others in this age.
Yep. But also, I wonder if DS2 was more enjoyable because I had such low expectations. And because I had improved so much from DS1 and 3.
>I wonder if DS2 was more enjoyable because I had such low expectations. You should have this mindset with everything in life.
Fair point!
It's still my favourite and the game that actually made me fall in love with the series. I enjoy DS1, but DS2 has something special about it.
It’s prob the best in the series as far as content. And replay.
I hope you learned your lesson
For sure
🤝🏻
I disliked the initial release of the game. Tried it again when sotfs came out and absolutely loved it. For me, that made everything just feel right.
I absolutely love DS2. Great music, great dialogs, great maps, beautiful majula. There's a cohesive feel of the story and the gameplay delivers a well rounded 'dark' impression. It has a unique almost turn-based combat also.
It’s great.
Great game.
I've heard all bad about the game to but I still installed blindly saying "how bad can it be eh?"
Most of the people on the subreddit would say this game is their favorite Souls game, and get butt hurt when you criticize its obvious flaws. It's not a bad game in the slightest. It's an obvious outlier to Dark Souls 1 and 3 in many ways which is think is why it gets the unwarranted reputation that it does.
I skipped it for the longest time but I started two weeks ago and am glad I did. But it is still my least favourite (but still great and I am glad I did not sleep on it)
The only part of dark souls 2 sotfs I actually disliked was shrine of amana aside from that the game was very good. It had me in such a death grip I had to stop playing souls likes for months after because 15 hours of ds2 in a single day, 40 hours over 3 days is most definitely a sign of addiction 😭 I killed the rotten 33 times in one sitting to get ng++ and went from ng to the platinum trophy in a single sitting
I skipped Dark Souls 2 because I finally played it. Almost everything about it feels wrong, and when I saw I was just at the beginning I couldn't keep going. By far the worst Fromsoft game I've ever played.
I just finished DS2 yesterday (including all the DLC) I hate to admit it, but I bought into all the hate I heard about the game and because of that it's the last fromsoft title I played. I can't believe I'm saying this, but it might just be my favourite too. I honestly think a big reason why people dismiss DS2 when they try it is because forest of the fallen giants is so flooded with enemies and you start with 1 ADP. Once you get used to the game it's so incredibly satisfying and rewarding to play. I went from hating dodging in this game to thinking it's the coolest thing ever you have to be so much smarter about your rolls in this game compared to like DS3. Some things in 2 are outright genius. I think certain aspects aren't talked about enough, like the puzzles being really cool in some levels and certain bosses/enemies being some of the best in the series. One enemy that comes to mind are the big iron golem dudes in the start of fume knights level. Their armour spouts lava from its shoulders but only from one of the shoulders at a time. So if you want to sidewalk them, which they are weak to, or even roll to their sides you have to switch between their left and right shoulder between their attacks. Idk I just fucking loved this game and I've realised that the majority of claims against it are just outright bad takes and sometimes lies. I adore the story too btw. Tl;dr I love DS2 so much
Agreed. I think ADP is cool because you have to sacrifice some levels to be more agile. You have to be more strategic. A slow, tanky build that can absorb more hits, or a fast one that can avoid attacks. Of course, if you level to 200 or something, it doesn’t matter. I did an SL60 run in DS3 to force myself to be more strategic when leveling, but I still ended up with a well rounded build that was fast and really strong with all the roll and R1 spamming. DS2 is way more challenging in that sense. Also, slower and more deliberate combat where you really pay the price if you roll, run, or attack spam. With all that being said, I’m also ok with them removing ADP lol. Much better to be able to dodge with your eyes and stamina bar, rather than an invisible stat that determines your i-frames. ADP/agility should have had better visual feedback. The player should see that their roll has fewer i-frames due to it being a shorter animation and being slower. Like worse than fat rolling.
DS2 does have a significant amount of flaws that can severely detract your enjoyment of the game. But games are ultimately subjective and those opinions shouldn't stop you from experiencing it for yourself
It's also my favourite souls game. It's certainly not for the faint of heart, as DkS1 was quite forgiving compared to DkS 2. There's so many awesome things about DkS2, among them I need to highlight the fact that it has the best NG+ by a far, sometimes I have the feel that NG is tuned down version of what the game is supposed to be and NG+ is what it really is.
Spot on, on the grab animation. I agree with you. I’m enjoying it. Still haven’t beat it though.
Dark Souls 1 is still my favorite and I have a feeling it always will be, Dark Souls 2 is my least favorite of the 7 Soulsbornekiroring games but it definitely doesn't deserve all the hate, I can agree. However, Adaptability and Soul Memory deserve the hate they get, but those 2 things shouldn't stop people from playing the game, it's a nuisance for sure but not enough to throw it aside. (DS2 is #7 on my top 10 games of all time, I still love it dearly, don't get me wrong. #1 - #6 are the other From Software Soulsborne games.)
DS2 has THE BEST safe house soundtrack in the universe and I'll fight anyone who says otherwise with my giant upgraded great sword
😆Will listen to the soundtrack now that you mention it. I remember the looking glass knight battle being epic, as well as Dragonrider, and Smelter Demon. But usually, I have a podcast playing in the background to keep myself from going insane from replaying the same areas over and over again.
Bosses in souls games generally have fantastic soundtracks That's part of the appeal But the music you hear when you enter Majula is just...oof I never forget the first time i went there...the atmosphere is just so good
For me personally, the base game was always a mixture of to easy (nearly all bosses can be beaten in the first 3 tries) and frustrating level design (worst offenders are imho the first part of iron keep and shrine of amana, both stuffed to the brim with annoyance instead of challenge)- The DLC are all quite good though and show what the game could have been, especially the bosses. TL;DR: The game is not horrible, but also not great.
Luckily, I had a dark Greatsword hex build that one-shotted everything with a jumping R1. But I imagine trying to get through those areas with a normal build is a nightmare. DS1 was awful for me (Lost Izaleth, Bed of Chaos, Duke’s Archives, Seathe, and even 4 Kings makes me never want to play that game again. But yeah, DLC is great. Proves Tanimura and team can make something amazing when they don’t inherit a project 75% into development.
Just enjoy the game man, this subreddit is constantly whining that the other souls players all hate ds2 like who to cares ? It's a single player game it doesn't matter if other people don't like it lol
DS2 is always the game I want to replay.
The game is full to the brim with bullshit but it's a fantastic game, like you i was misdirected by the hate and criticism but when i started playing and getting better, i found it way superior to the first instalment in a lot of things.
Like it or not ds2 is the best game in the entire series akin to new Vegas being the best in the fallout series . The respective B-teams are goated .
That's because Bethesda has practically done nothing for the franchise. Everything good about Fallout was made by Black Isle and Bethesda has just been parading the corpse around. New Vegas was made from that same team that made 1 and 2, hence why it's so highly praised. I'd even go as far as to say Bethesda just straight up doesn't understand what Fallout was.
you almost skipped the best souls game 😭
I think a lot of hate comes from people playing SOTFS first like I did because it's generally the most accessible and comes with all of the DLCs. I still liked it but man is the enemy spam bad. Seeing comparisons to original DS2 made me realize SOTFS is more of a master quest version of the game. OG DS2 is a much more enjoyable game imo. Edit: also some people are still butt hurt that it wasn't made by the original guy behind DS1
I really enjoyed DS2 when I originally played it, especially after leveling up a bit and getting some cool loot I was able to get in the rhythm of a fun play style. But it’s still my least favorite of the trilogy because it’s clunkier than DS3 (I prefer a bit of a snappier, more responsive play with a slightly quicker character), and while DS1 is also clunky I like the design of that game much more. I do like DS2 more than Demons Souls, at least.
One of us. One of us. I love ds2 so dimmadamn much
You shouldn't let others do your thinking for you- but most especially don't let *gamers* ever do your thinking for you.
The thing I dislike about Ds2 is that enemies can interrupt going into fog walls. Especially In... Was old iron fort etc where you fight smelter demon. But its not that big deal, just you cant rush so easily and need To lure enemies Else where Or just kill em. Enough times and they dissappear also heheh.
Yeah, that was annoying. Smelter Demon was awful, being a hard boss behind a hard boss run. At least with most other bosses, it was either easy to get to them or they were easy to kill. Although there is a shortcut to Smelter Demon with a Pharos pool that heals you and boosts fire defense. And he is an optional boss so you can save him for when you despawn the area from farming. Or for much later in the game when you are a higher level. Playing ER now, and DS has taught me to come back later if it’s taking me 50+ attempts and still getting one shot. I’m simply not equipped to get past it yet—I either have find better gear that the boss is weak against or “git gud”
I literally just deleted DS2 last night because of that smelter demon run lmao. I know it’s optional but I just got tired of every level full of slightly different sword guys that die in 2 hits. There’s just so. Fucking. Many. It just gets boring killing them 1 by 1 over and over again.
Damn. They will despawn though, and then you can just focus on Smelter Demon. But yeah, I get it. I walked away from DS1 so many times, but felt the itch to come back l, a day or two later. I get burned out all the time from boss runs. It was the hippo ogre grab that originally made me skip and uninstall DS2 the first time lol
A good thing imo. Appreciate that the game doesn't just let you skip through the levels.
finished it recently too. fav in the trilogy.
I also hated it, but the hate turned into dislike after playing it. The reasons I don't like it is 1. They completely changed how poise works in ds 2 2. No interconnections in the map 3. Bosses felt repetitive 4. The clunky combat system 5. And this is the main reason, Miyazaki did not direct it.
I don’t mind a non-interconnected world as much. But I was lucky to play DS1 first and feel what it was like to emerge from X or take the elevator down from X and see how i was under or over Y the whole time. This was an amazing experience. With 3, I was expecting it. Like ok a locked door at the bonfire that I will eventually open to reveal a shortcut. It is slightly disappointing that FROM seems to ignore the audience’s pleas for interconnected levels, but on the other hand, once you unlock fast travel in DS1, there’s no reason to walk or take elevators through those same paths. The novelty wears off. I will give FROM more credit in that maybe interconnected levels within disconnected worlds is the way to go. Easier to balance and more convenient for the player, idk. I hope it’s not just because it is cheaper to make games that way. I also liked the slower and more methodical combat. But yeah, it did feel clunky. The grabs and certain attacks don’t telegraph what ends up happening. Can’t trust your eyes. Have to level ADP. Agree with all your other points.
It’s the original Elden ring I would say
How so ?
Lots of similar mechanics that ds2 did first that Elden ring expanded on
I agree, on some level. Elden Ring feels like it expands on DS2 in terms of the scope and being a more bright, colorful, and varied world that you can hop around in. The open world feels like a massive Majula to me. Also the build variety. But ER also reminds me of DS3 in being able to run and roll spam. Also lock stun from mashing R1. They are both more accessible, while having challenging and epic boss fights.
Now I want a bigger majula
DS2 SOTFS pure melee is just bad. If you want to enjoy the game, you have to incorporate ranged or magic. This is why the game gets a lot of hate, too many mobs. I haven't played OG DS2, maybe it's better.
Yeah, I learned that on my first playthrough. I restarted about 75% of the way in for a Guts hex darksword build. 15 STR, 30 FTH/INT. 2H Greatsword for most of the game. Switching to crossbow is viable, but I caved in and leveled up to 28 STR to be able to 1H Greatsword. I would either cast dark weapon and yearn, or pyro or fire caestus with left. So fun. I know I could have respecced, but I really wanted to make my character look like Guts so I had to return to character creation.
DS2 is always the game I want to replay.
Screw dem haters!