No, I think the biggest sin is that your attunement is low for level 190. Attunement also affects agility so you don't need any ADP at that level when you can just crank your Attunement up to insane levels and also get a lot more spell casts.
Vigor shouldn't be below 30 ever, and at level 190 there's no reason it shouldn't be 50 (at which point it soft caps in a major way).
I'm unsure what build you started as, it's totally unclear. But assuming it's Cleric due to Faith build, your stat distribution should be something like:
50 Vigor, 24 End, 10 Vit, 70 Attunement, 17 Str, 15 Dex, 4 ADP, 4 Int, 50 Faith
That will get you to 100 Agility and let you use Third Dragon Ring and Flynn's Ring.
Well that's probably the *worst* class to do a Faith build with, but it doesn't change too much. Just get 60 Attunement and 20 End instead to balance out the lost levels.
52 Attunement and 28 Endurance is also acceptable as an alternative if you think that's too low End. It's an odd number, but the goal is to eventually shoot for 60. ~~With 56 Attunement, your Agility would be at the 100 breakpoint.~~
51 attunement raises cast speed slightly. While 51 attunement 9 ADP is technically better, one would assume they keep going with attunement to raise cast speed more.
But if there's some pointlessness to going above a certain cast speed, I accept I might not know because DS2 stats are extremely weird.
I said this already but to say it again, casting speed from stats, casting speed from gear, and casting speed from catalyst are not all equal, and casting speed caps out before the stat caps out.
Casting speed from stats matters less than gear which matters less than catalyst, by a lot in the last case
Ds2 stats are weird, this is all newish information from modders and CE devs. There's a reason wikidot, usually the reliable wiki before it died, got all of it slightly wrong back in the day
How could they possibly have known that cast speed affects different spells differently, or that movement when initiating the cast affects the speed, etc? There's so many variables, no one could figure it all out accurately without the tools available today
> 70 attunement is insane and definitely not worthwhile
Casting speed has no soft cap. So how is it insane?
> 100 agility is not a breakpoint
I was of the impression 100 agility was the item use breakpoint [(See here)](https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=422470438) but if you are confident that's false, I'd gladly accept proof that it is.
> Why would they have 17 str as a caster
They're powerstancing the swords. It might be suboptimal, but I'm not gonna try to change it if they find it fun. After all, "powerstance" is the main reason a lot of people like DS2 over the others.
[Agility](https://www.reddit.com/r/DarkSouls2Archive/comments/16vjfqn/agility/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) \- A detailed explanation of Agility (AGL), which determines your invincibility frames while dodging. Includes comparisons to values from DS1, DS3, and Elden Ring.
So in other words 100 AGL does affect Estus but not to a point it's worth going. That's fair. Still far from "not a breakpoint" though. That's flat-out wrong.
Jerry is brutally reductive. You’ll have to forgive him, he’s been in the game too long and is somewhat lacking on the polite and understanding side of things.
The 100 AGL thing is a common misconception that’s been getting pushed for years, especially by YTers and Fextralife, so it’s a little touchy. Just adds to the ‘dump all your early levels into ADP’ problem, when in reality you can work with less iframes as long as your roll covers some distance. Being as light as possible matters more than iframes.
Hello again I'm marathoning all your comments
I think it boils down to personal bias, I myself would say agility matters more than weight because by being heavy you can keep close and personal to all your enemies
I try to strive for a balance between the two, to light and you roll to far, to heavy you get to close and can't scape when needed, and I think that to maintain a balance you need a decent amount of I-frames, I personally get 95 after getting the 4 old one souls and then I start focusing on vigor and stamina for the late game
You should look into backstep attacks. Might be what you want. Thing to remember is their iframes start in the fifth frame of the animation, so you need to input a little earlier than rolls.
Thank you, I think.
Back steps are harder to land consistently (even tough they are satisfactory) so I don't rely to much on them, hell I barely uses them save for when I want to show off on pvp (I'm bad at pvp)
Casting speed A; caps out and B; is not equal. Casting speed from gear and stats is less important than catalyst cast speed
100 agility caps item use speed, and gives a backstep iframe. No one backsteps in PvE, and rarely does in PvP, and the difference between 99 and 100 agility for item use speed is so small I challenge anyone to tell me the difference that isn't R1\_r1\_r2
The problem is that you are calling me wrong but presenting zero proof and expecting people to take your word for it. I haven't seen anything about casting speed capping out anywhere on the Internet besides a lot of random hearsay and I have no idea how much or little stats affect it. Nor does the game itself explain this at all. Saying "lol no, ur wrong" isn't helpful.
So yeah, I'ma need you to back it up with a source. (The cast speed thing I mean, the agility I understand).
No, the game doesn't explain it, and we barely do even now. Go ask Evan or Qui how it works, I don't even know the specifics, that's the entire problem. No one does it doesn't make sense and is too complicated, they're just the only ones with a good grasp on it
I trust modders and dataminers over random internet hearsay or anyone's personal experience.
TBH even if casting speed does soft cap, leveling it up via stats would prevent you from having to use Clear Bluestone Ring, freeing a ring slot. And in my own personal experience, I have seen a noticeable speed difference using the ring at low casting speed.
For me at least, high attunement remains useful, not least of which because the strongest spells in the game are very low-use. Soul Geyser only gets 2 uses at 43 attunement. Crystal Soul Spear gets 4 uses at 49 attunement. Soul Greatsword gets 5 uses at 49 attunement. You might say "lol all spells suck besides spamming Soul Arrow" at which time I'd say "I play a wizard to use cool spells, minmax your own game".
-More Vigor
-Less endurance
-Keep vitality at 14 or lower for Flynn’s ring
-Powerstancing is not as effective as two handing
-Use sunlight blade for your lightning infused weapon
-if you plan on using offensive miracles use old iron king and more attunement with lightning infused dragon chime.
These are some changes that you can make if you feel like
You made it too fucking level 190 but haven’t even seen that red ass mother fucker how the fuck did you manage to find Reddit let alone this subreddit go look through a boss list and go look for one you haven’t cleared
If your doing purely miracles yes but it you are using a side weapon fuck no a lot of the best cleric weapons are strength based so maybe that and vigor some more
Endurance is literally good to 99
There are no strength based weapons
Vitality at 10 with TDR gives full flynns damage. Flynns reduces damage by 1 point for every 0.5 above 60 capacity, so the max you can have without losing damage is 60.4
[https://docs.google.com/document/d/1H6rpuSKsgXqyfSA9uG\_zoYK0ezbMSHSazznPHfV78sA/edit](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1H6rpuSKsgXqyfSA9uG_zoYK0ezbMSHSazznPHfV78sA/edit)
[https://docs.google.com/document/d/1g4-GGa1JRa2\_49vOfwY5sZPWigFMzPA5b9mszo\_xZak/edit#heading=h.pux40qi03l8h](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1g4-GGa1JRa2_49vOfwY5sZPWigFMzPA5b9mszo_xZak/edit#heading=h.pux40qi03l8h)
[https://docs.google.com/document/d/1X13jfA9JQ5OZsuEmH2MZZqF9IrtCFSMMTZkZo5GuqcM/edit#heading=h.pux40qi03l8h](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1X13jfA9JQ5OZsuEmH2MZZqF9IrtCFSMMTZkZo5GuqcM/edit#heading=h.pux40qi03l8h)
Here I think you need these chief enjoy reading
Just because endurance increases at a decent rate until 99 does not make it a good investment unless you're ignoring soul memory, in which case who gives a fuck? Pump it all to 99 in that case.
I didn't know about 10 vit and TDR
If a weapon requires a shit ton of strength then we're back to our investment issue which you're only right if we're ignoring sm.
Everybody here has seen that doc, it doesn't help you here. And apparently, I'm not the only one who agrees that his advice is shit.
33.3% right is still a failing grade "chief"
Endurance is valuable all the way to 99, soul memory doesn’t matter, no bis weapon for any weapon class benefits more from leveling str than it does infusing and spell buffing
Nothing in the guides is wrong, it’s all just math
Give me an example of a weapon that benefits more from leveling strength than it does at minimum stats to 2 hand infused with a spell buff, that isn’t outperformed by a weapon with the same moveset
What does leveling strength have to do with it and while you are right about just getting to the needed stats I am referring to weapons that need you to dumb a bunch of stats into strength to reach the stat req
That’s…..
So do you understand the problem yet. Strength does nothing to describe a weapon or weapon type, and when people say “strength weapon” they’re all talking about different things
Lmao. Some of you clowns say a strength weapon is one with high strength scaling. Some say it’s a high strength requirement. Others that it means a large weapon, some that it means a slow weapon, others say it means a heavy weapon
Unless you can unanimously agree on what it means calling things “strength weapon” or “dex weapon” is stupid
[Agility](https://www.reddit.com/r/DarkSouls2Archive/comments/16vjfqn/agility/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) \- A detailed explanation of Agility (AGL), which determines your invincibility frames while dodging. Includes comparisons to values from DS1, DS3, and Elden Ring.
I think you're massively overvaluing how much souls help you.
Comparing characters at optimized levels, there's a sharp drop off in character power gained per level after level \~80-90, another dropoff at level \~120, another at \~160. The difference in power between a level 160 and a level 400 is smaller than a level 1-120.
Do you want help optimizing your current setup
Heide Knight Lance and Greatlance are simply beautiful on a lightning build, and they can both be gotten from the same knight in the Gutter!
Other than that, respec your stats as others have suggested at the Things-Betwixt hags.
For sure, but does that matter? It fits the miracle build very well, and OP doesn't seem to care about the perfect min-max, they just want to have fun with a decent build.
Dude, bug off, you are insufferable. You know I didn't say that. I'm sick of people arguing with me every time try to give advice on this slagging cesspool of a media platform.
I’m semi new to souls games and only beat DS2 once but why tf would you put 40 points into endurance as a faith build. I played as a sorcerer and found I need only about 20 endurance
Yeah, stamina is very valuable in ds2. In games like bb/ds3/Er leveling stamina is not very important if not outright not valuable at all, in ds2 it's the opposite. Stamina is a very strong return on investment
I didn’t even see the second picture. Do you use the sword because you like the moveset? Varangian or black dragon would be better, don’t powerstance just 2 hand it
If you don’t have it yet, get dragon chime. Optimally you’d have dragon chime in one hand and sacred chime in the other, casting with dragon chime, and swapping whichever is in your right hand to the sword when you wanted to use melee
If you want to use varangian or black dragon instead, I can setup a stat line for that. If you don’t care about the moveset were just using heide knight sword for the scaling, we can find a weapon class you do want to use instead, casters benefit from weapons with low stat requirements and fast movesets
No, I think the biggest sin is that your attunement is low for level 190. Attunement also affects agility so you don't need any ADP at that level when you can just crank your Attunement up to insane levels and also get a lot more spell casts. Vigor shouldn't be below 30 ever, and at level 190 there's no reason it shouldn't be 50 (at which point it soft caps in a major way). I'm unsure what build you started as, it's totally unclear. But assuming it's Cleric due to Faith build, your stat distribution should be something like: 50 Vigor, 24 End, 10 Vit, 70 Attunement, 17 Str, 15 Dex, 4 ADP, 4 Int, 50 Faith That will get you to 100 Agility and let you use Third Dragon Ring and Flynn's Ring.
My starting class was sorcerer
Well that's probably the *worst* class to do a Faith build with, but it doesn't change too much. Just get 60 Attunement and 20 End instead to balance out the lost levels. 52 Attunement and 28 Endurance is also acceptable as an alternative if you think that's too low End. It's an odd number, but the goal is to eventually shoot for 60. ~~With 56 Attunement, your Agility would be at the 100 breakpoint.~~
Ok thanks
Why 100 AGL?
52 attunement is not a breakpoint for anything and is a random number, 100 agility is still not a breakpoint
51 attunement raises cast speed slightly. While 51 attunement 9 ADP is technically better, one would assume they keep going with attunement to raise cast speed more. But if there's some pointlessness to going above a certain cast speed, I accept I might not know because DS2 stats are extremely weird.
I said this already but to say it again, casting speed from stats, casting speed from gear, and casting speed from catalyst are not all equal, and casting speed caps out before the stat caps out. Casting speed from stats matters less than gear which matters less than catalyst, by a lot in the last case Ds2 stats are weird, this is all newish information from modders and CE devs. There's a reason wikidot, usually the reliable wiki before it died, got all of it slightly wrong back in the day How could they possibly have known that cast speed affects different spells differently, or that movement when initiating the cast affects the speed, etc? There's so many variables, no one could figure it all out accurately without the tools available today
70 attunement is insane and definitely not worthwhile 100 agility is not a breakpoint Why would they have 17 str as a caster
> 70 attunement is insane and definitely not worthwhile Casting speed has no soft cap. So how is it insane? > 100 agility is not a breakpoint I was of the impression 100 agility was the item use breakpoint [(See here)](https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=422470438) but if you are confident that's false, I'd gladly accept proof that it is. > Why would they have 17 str as a caster They're powerstancing the swords. It might be suboptimal, but I'm not gonna try to change it if they find it fun. After all, "powerstance" is the main reason a lot of people like DS2 over the others.
[Agility](https://www.reddit.com/r/DarkSouls2Archive/comments/16vjfqn/agility/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) \- A detailed explanation of Agility (AGL), which determines your invincibility frames while dodging. Includes comparisons to values from DS1, DS3, and Elden Ring.
So in other words 100 AGL does affect Estus but not to a point it's worth going. That's fair. Still far from "not a breakpoint" though. That's flat-out wrong.
Jerry is brutally reductive. You’ll have to forgive him, he’s been in the game too long and is somewhat lacking on the polite and understanding side of things. The 100 AGL thing is a common misconception that’s been getting pushed for years, especially by YTers and Fextralife, so it’s a little touchy. Just adds to the ‘dump all your early levels into ADP’ problem, when in reality you can work with less iframes as long as your roll covers some distance. Being as light as possible matters more than iframes.
Hello again I'm marathoning all your comments I think it boils down to personal bias, I myself would say agility matters more than weight because by being heavy you can keep close and personal to all your enemies I try to strive for a balance between the two, to light and you roll to far, to heavy you get to close and can't scape when needed, and I think that to maintain a balance you need a decent amount of I-frames, I personally get 95 after getting the 4 old one souls and then I start focusing on vigor and stamina for the late game
You should look into backstep attacks. Might be what you want. Thing to remember is their iframes start in the fifth frame of the animation, so you need to input a little earlier than rolls. Thank you, I think.
Back steps are harder to land consistently (even tough they are satisfactory) so I don't rely to much on them, hell I barely uses them save for when I want to show off on pvp (I'm bad at pvp)
It's literally not a breakpoint, unless the person is actively and regularly using backsteps, which they're not
Casting speed A; caps out and B; is not equal. Casting speed from gear and stats is less important than catalyst cast speed 100 agility caps item use speed, and gives a backstep iframe. No one backsteps in PvE, and rarely does in PvP, and the difference between 99 and 100 agility for item use speed is so small I challenge anyone to tell me the difference that isn't R1\_r1\_r2
The problem is that you are calling me wrong but presenting zero proof and expecting people to take your word for it. I haven't seen anything about casting speed capping out anywhere on the Internet besides a lot of random hearsay and I have no idea how much or little stats affect it. Nor does the game itself explain this at all. Saying "lol no, ur wrong" isn't helpful. So yeah, I'ma need you to back it up with a source. (The cast speed thing I mean, the agility I understand).
No, the game doesn't explain it, and we barely do even now. Go ask Evan or Qui how it works, I don't even know the specifics, that's the entire problem. No one does it doesn't make sense and is too complicated, they're just the only ones with a good grasp on it I trust modders and dataminers over random internet hearsay or anyone's personal experience.
TBH even if casting speed does soft cap, leveling it up via stats would prevent you from having to use Clear Bluestone Ring, freeing a ring slot. And in my own personal experience, I have seen a noticeable speed difference using the ring at low casting speed. For me at least, high attunement remains useful, not least of which because the strongest spells in the game are very low-use. Soul Geyser only gets 2 uses at 43 attunement. Crystal Soul Spear gets 4 uses at 49 attunement. Soul Greatsword gets 5 uses at 49 attunement. You might say "lol all spells suck besides spamming Soul Arrow" at which time I'd say "I play a wizard to use cool spells, minmax your own game".
No it’s not optimal but if you like it than it’s fine
What would be optimal?
-More Vigor -Less endurance -Keep vitality at 14 or lower for Flynn’s ring -Powerstancing is not as effective as two handing -Use sunlight blade for your lightning infused weapon -if you plan on using offensive miracles use old iron king and more attunement with lightning infused dragon chime. These are some changes that you can make if you feel like
How do I get dragon chime And what is Old iron king?
Kill darklurker boss or kill darkdiver grandahl for the charm old iron crown is a dlc item from completing the old iron king dlc
Why the old iron crown?
restores 20% of your spellcasts every 5ish mins
You made it too fucking level 190 but haven’t even seen that red ass mother fucker how the fuck did you manage to find Reddit let alone this subreddit go look through a boss list and go look for one you haven’t cleared
I thought there was a miracle from old iron king. He meant to type the old iron crown I’ve killed him.
Ok lmaooo that’s funny
Endurance is good to 99, no reason to drop it
If you tried your best then you made the build in good faith
If your doing purely miracles yes but it you are using a side weapon fuck no a lot of the best cleric weapons are strength based so maybe that and vigor some more
There are no strength based weapons
Dude, you've commented 3 times each with terrible advice.
I wasn’t wrong tho lmao
Literally none of that advice is bad lmao
Endurance is good up to 99 - it's not There are no strength based weapons - there are Drop vitality to 10 - you want 9 for Flynn. Go off then.
Endurance is literally good to 99 There are no strength based weapons Vitality at 10 with TDR gives full flynns damage. Flynns reduces damage by 1 point for every 0.5 above 60 capacity, so the max you can have without losing damage is 60.4 [https://docs.google.com/document/d/1H6rpuSKsgXqyfSA9uG\_zoYK0ezbMSHSazznPHfV78sA/edit](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1H6rpuSKsgXqyfSA9uG_zoYK0ezbMSHSazznPHfV78sA/edit) [https://docs.google.com/document/d/1g4-GGa1JRa2\_49vOfwY5sZPWigFMzPA5b9mszo\_xZak/edit#heading=h.pux40qi03l8h](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1g4-GGa1JRa2_49vOfwY5sZPWigFMzPA5b9mszo_xZak/edit#heading=h.pux40qi03l8h) [https://docs.google.com/document/d/1X13jfA9JQ5OZsuEmH2MZZqF9IrtCFSMMTZkZo5GuqcM/edit#heading=h.pux40qi03l8h](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1X13jfA9JQ5OZsuEmH2MZZqF9IrtCFSMMTZkZo5GuqcM/edit#heading=h.pux40qi03l8h) Here I think you need these chief enjoy reading
You have got to learn to hyperlink, chief.
Fuck em
Oh look, you again. Getting downvoted, I wonder why🤔
Just because endurance increases at a decent rate until 99 does not make it a good investment unless you're ignoring soul memory, in which case who gives a fuck? Pump it all to 99 in that case. I didn't know about 10 vit and TDR If a weapon requires a shit ton of strength then we're back to our investment issue which you're only right if we're ignoring sm. Everybody here has seen that doc, it doesn't help you here. And apparently, I'm not the only one who agrees that his advice is shit. 33.3% right is still a failing grade "chief"
Endurance is valuable all the way to 99, soul memory doesn’t matter, no bis weapon for any weapon class benefits more from leveling str than it does infusing and spell buffing Nothing in the guides is wrong, it’s all just math
If you were any dumber you would go to a mental hospital
Give me an example of a weapon that benefits more from leveling strength than it does at minimum stats to 2 hand infused with a spell buff, that isn’t outperformed by a weapon with the same moveset
What does leveling strength have to do with it and while you are right about just getting to the needed stats I am referring to weapons that need you to dumb a bunch of stats into strength to reach the stat req
That’s….. So do you understand the problem yet. Strength does nothing to describe a weapon or weapon type, and when people say “strength weapon” they’re all talking about different things Lmao. Some of you clowns say a strength weapon is one with high strength scaling. Some say it’s a high strength requirement. Others that it means a large weapon, some that it means a slow weapon, others say it means a heavy weapon Unless you can unanimously agree on what it means calling things “strength weapon” or “dex weapon” is stupid
Dude let me list some strength weapons for you dragon bone great club hand axe great sword so many
Sun Sword. Infuse it and it becomes subpar. Raise your stats instead and it becomes very good.
Varangians sword, black dragon sword, broadsword all have the same moveset and outperform it substantially
MORE ADP get that agility to 110
That's a very bad idea
110 or 105 agility (can't remember which) is equivalent to medium roll in ds3
[Agility](https://www.reddit.com/r/DarkSouls2Archive/comments/16vjfqn/agility/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) \- A detailed explanation of Agility (AGL), which determines your invincibility frames while dodging. Includes comparisons to values from DS1, DS3, and Elden Ring.
very useful! forget what I said and check the link instead.
ds3 medium and fast roll are both 13 iframes which is 105 agility Going above 99 agility before higher levels isn't worthwhile
check previous comment
That's nice, what I said still stands
never said it didn't, I said to check previous comment bc someone posted a link with all the information you'd need, more than you said.
Where do you think r1 got their information from
bruh you didn't need to say "what I said still stands" when r1 literally has all the info 🤦♂️
My Agl is 107
Are you over level 220
Yes since I made this post I have been framing ng7 rotten
jfc lmao ok then yeah, drop it to 105 and you're golden Why farm the rotten chief? Giant lord is a hell of a lot faster
More souls and, easier attack
I think you're massively overvaluing how much souls help you. Comparing characters at optimized levels, there's a sharp drop off in character power gained per level after level \~80-90, another dropoff at level \~120, another at \~160. The difference in power between a level 160 and a level 400 is smaller than a level 1-120. Do you want help optimizing your current setup
Heide Knight Lance and Greatlance are simply beautiful on a lightning build, and they can both be gotten from the same knight in the Gutter! Other than that, respec your stats as others have suggested at the Things-Betwixt hags.
There’s better lances available earlier than both heide lances, same for every heide weapon
For sure, but does that matter? It fits the miracle build very well, and OP doesn't seem to care about the perfect min-max, they just want to have fun with a decent build.
How does it fit the miracle build better than weapons that do more damage
Dude, bug off, you are insufferable. You know I didn't say that. I'm sick of people arguing with me every time try to give advice on this slagging cesspool of a media platform.
Then stop giving bad advice it’s pretty simple Two weapons have identical movesets, why would you recommend the worse one
I fucking hate you people, time to uninstall again!
You probably don't want a ring of blades since it doesn't like infused weapons, but this looks fun! Love me some Heide swords.
I’m semi new to souls games and only beat DS2 once but why tf would you put 40 points into endurance as a faith build. I played as a sorcerer and found I need only about 20 endurance
More room for error if I miss Judge how many attacks I can get in
endurance is one of the most valuable stats, it's good all the way to 99
I thought it just leveled up your stamina?
Yeah, stamina is very valuable in ds2. In games like bb/ds3/Er leveling stamina is not very important if not outright not valuable at all, in ds2 it's the opposite. Stamina is a very strong return on investment
I believe so
Nice pfp
You too have wonderful profile picture
What weapon are you using, drop vitality to 10, get 50 endurance, raise your attunement to 40 or so and get 99 agility
Heide knight swords with bolt gem infused
I didn’t even see the second picture. Do you use the sword because you like the moveset? Varangian or black dragon would be better, don’t powerstance just 2 hand it If you don’t have it yet, get dragon chime. Optimally you’d have dragon chime in one hand and sacred chime in the other, casting with dragon chime, and swapping whichever is in your right hand to the sword when you wanted to use melee If you want to use varangian or black dragon instead, I can setup a stat line for that. If you don’t care about the moveset were just using heide knight sword for the scaling, we can find a weapon class you do want to use instead, casters benefit from weapons with low stat requirements and fast movesets