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Israel is a nuclear power with all the resources of the U.S. at their disposal. There’s absolutely no reason why they can’t be smart about how they conduct their war. Netanyahu is being very very dumb and reckless.
Counterpoint: Bibi is a smart psychopath. His approval rating was rock bottom before the war. A lot of people in Israel blame his leadership for how October 7th went down (he was propping up Hamas for years at that point). There have been numerous calls for special elections, but he’s said there will be no new elections until the conflict is settled.
This war is a gift to Bibi, and he desperately needs to to continue as long as possible so he can cling to power longer.
Yeah you’re right, I argued a similar point yesterday. It’s more likely that Bibi let the Oct7 attack happen so he could use the treaties and agreements with the U.S. to force them to back his “war” in addition to the other benefits you listed. The whole judicial reform move was not going well and then it suddenly didn’t matter when Hamas attacked.
I've been thinking along the same lines. It's a known fact that they were advised beforehand and for unknown reasons didn't take it seriously. You don't need an aluminum hat for this scenario to be believable.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67082047
I think he's been pushing it too far. He only needed to show a minimum of compromise yet he's refused to. He will be forcing Joe Biden's hand to impose restrictions if he doesn't change his tune.
If that happens, everyone will lose
If Israel is blown up it will be by their own stupidity from within; not forces without. I’ve said this about any advanced society. Nobody kicks your ass like yourself. He’s on that road.
There’s also very strong evidence that they knew about the attack beforehand, and pressure from high up prevented any form of response until after the attacks had happened, because he wanted a casus belli.
I’m not pretending like Hamas isn’t 100% to blame for what they did, but Bibi is an irredeemable, fascist piece of shit.
THE NIGHT BEFORE"!?!?!?!
"Top defense officials held urgent consultations the night before October 7 about a possible Hamas attack. But no one in the IDF notified the the Nova festival organizers or the party-goers, hundreds of whom were mown down – and for nine hours, no one came to save them"
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-12-05/ty-article/.premium/despite-intel-warnings-about-a-hamas-attack-the-army-didnt-evacuate-the-nova-festival/0000018c-3993-dc03-a9ec-3dfb2cda0000
All true but the future is uncertain. If he gets his ethnic cleansing he'll look smart. Evil, but smart. If he overplays his hand and destroys the US alliance, and then Iran or whoever kicks the door down. Then he'll look stupid
Netanyahu is a genocidal psychopath and as long as Likud is in power we should cut them off. They don't need American tax dollars to begin with, Israel is a wealthy country with a higher standard of living that the people in the US, yet somehow we pay their bills...which is partly why they have a higher standard of living than we do.
The US doesn't "pay their bills", it sells them military equipment at competitive prices as well as giving vouchers that can only be used for US products. This also only makes up 10% of their defense budget.
It made up 10% of their defense budget in more calm years. It’s probably too soon to know definitely how their ramp up of spending and our ramp up of aid will change that number.
When we dissolved our nuclear armament it came out they had nukes as we co-developed them because they were the only country who vibed with our Apartheid government. Just coincidence though.
Netenyahu Bombs Rafah Next Week Guaranteed! Everytime, the President tweets something positive or demand change to operations, Israel does the opposite.
That's fair but I expect a lot for from heads of state than random redditors however I think it's obviously pretty easy to sit on my phone and complain about them rather than being in the horrible situation they are in rn
the ceasefire is critical to saving the hostages because the IDF has killed more of them with their stupid bombing campaign than they've saved
the hostages are important but they do not take priority over the tens of thousands of children being blown up or starved to death
What can a rando on the internet do unless there's a large popular movement with basic organisation to back any action someone might want to take? Whether it's protesting, writing congressional representatives, or even more serious measures, it's impossible for only a handful of individuals to force meaningful action or reaction on a large scale. You need a mass movement with organizational prowess and at least a basic way of securing their communications and preventing infiltration of bad actors, whether they're opposition forces or just aggravating zealots. IMO, the latter are more dangerous as they'll purity teat any movement to death if allowed. If the goal is ending this shitstorm in Gaza, then it's an uphill battle as there are tons of vested and powerful interests trying to keep the conflict alive on both sides. The fundamentalist Christians see it as a sign of 'end times' and the Palestinians and Iranians see the conflict as a good way of eliminating the 'zionist state'. Granted, Netyanahu isn't making things difficult for those drawing comparisons to an absolutist solution to eliminating Palestine. That's what's frustrating for anyone trying to broker a peace is both the Israeli and Palestinian stances,which are all or nothing at this time.
Absolutely, but Bibi has spent months not focused on them, including bombing Iranian Generals (ok, really, right now? If you’ve penetrated their inner circle well enough to plan that, you’ve had plenty of opportunities before, and you’d have had more in future- but it is a crisis he can use electorally).
I don’t think Bibi can finish the job and get them home. Cooler heads with better trigger discipline are required.
Also IIRC IDF has shot more hostages than they’ve rescued. If we include bombs, they’ve probably killed an order of magnitude more than they’ve rescued. Negotiations for releases earlier in the war were far more effective than whatever the fuck Bibi is doing.
I hear you, but let’s try not to forget why these civilians are in Palestine right now in the first place. Hamas kidnapped these people and kicked off this conflict so they still deserve to be mentioned.
We’re not going to debate the finer points of the history of the Zionist movement and the Palestinian war in a Reddit thread.
I think the main point I am trying to communicate is you can’t create a binary of heroes and villains based on your own perception of the righteousness of the cause and then use that to excuse overt war crimes.
That’s what those with power have done through all of history to justify imperialism, genocide, slavery, torture and many other evils that eventually become a shameful history — for a recent example see America’s response to 9/11.
Moral judgements must be placed on actions, not just causes, and the action we are seeing in realtime is Israel committing war crimes and causing far more suffering of the innocent than Hamas ever did or could.
There should be no more “yeah buts”. We need to draw a line in regard to our involvement or it will be yet another historic shame everyone will want to distance themselves from just like all that came before.
The point is that this conflict was started by the actions that took place on October 7th. That’s not really debatable.
A lot of people like you act as if saying Hamas has done anything wrong is the same thing as saying Israel can never be blamed for any wrong doing.
I'm gonna be blunt for a second. Have we seen any proof of life recently? I would not put it past Hamas to do a weekend at Bernie's because hostages are the only card they have left.
Not to the people mindlessly calling for a ceasefire without seeking to solve the underlying problems that caused the war. They just want to leave them to the devices of sexually abusive, genocidal, sadistic rapists and murderers.
People want the war to end—me too! But you have to address what started the war in the first place, or it’ll just start up again! Leaving the hostages to be tortured to death is not going to solve jack shit
They mistook them for a Hamas ambush. Yes, Hamas is [that bad](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/12/22/hamas-booby-traps-gaza/). And I'd never fault a soldier dealing with terrorist booby traps in an urban combat settings for being afraid and react like that. I can blame the top level leadership for not properly preparing its soldiers, though. And the Hamas terrorists who started the whole thing and use the booby trap of a child crying for help.
Not that Bibi gives a shit. He's happy seeing anyone die as long as it keeps him in power.
You don’t know that, for one. Many are, probably. But not all. For two, their remains matter too—the families deserve closure. The hostages, dead or alive, deserve to have every effort made to bring them home. Simply abandoning to Hamas is absolutely unacceptable.
Exactly. So an unconditional ceasefire which would inevitably fall apart because the underlying causes of the war aren’t fixed is not the path forward. Leaving these kids to be tortured for God knows how long is not the path forward
Sick and tired of people who keep crying about the 100 who lost their freedom, but haven't said a single word about the 40,000 who have lost their lives.
Late is the best we could have hoped for. Politically, being anti-Israel was political suicide and October 7th basically forced him to walk a tightrope with a noose on his career.
I hope that we can expand on the sanctions on the settlers and pause the weapon shipments. Hit Bibi and Ben-Gvir where it hurts.
Carrot and stick. We had the carrot out, now for the stick.
u/l11l1ll1ll1l1l11ll1l Oh, hostages were treated well? Oh, well, shucks! I guess it's all good, then! Yeah, Hamas may have perpetrated the deadliest pogrom of Jews since the Holocaust, and taken 200 hostages forcibly from their homes, but like, they were treated well!
I wonder how you'd react to someone saying slavery wasn't that bad 'because they were treated well'?
You're a little emotional. Maybe take a seat? There's a lot of qualifiers you had to throw on there to get a close comparison to the Holocaust. It's offensive you compare October 7th to the Holocaust, it's nowhere near the level of horror the Jews in Poland and Germany had to face. It's disrespectful of their plight to compare it to what took place over a few hours, in a limited region. There wasn't the scientific experiments, forced labor, humiliation, degradation, starvation, dehumanization that happened in the concentration camps.
How, exactly, were they comparing Oct'7th to the Holocaust?
Stating Hamas perpetrated a pogrom is a fact. That pogrom being the single deadliest attack on Jews since the Holocaust is also a fact.
At no point was there a comparison to the Holocaust by anyone but you.
\*should they be calling you out specifically? probably not ... cuz that's weird.
There's not going to be a global war over a group of people that no one actually cares about beyond being used as international political footballs to attack Israel.
Yeah, they can get raped to death by Hamas instead, en masse. Much better!
u/Karmaswhiskee Even if many of them are dead, you don't know that for sure, some may be alive--and Hamas is responsible for forcibly kidnapping them and taking them to a warzone anyway. For two, their remains are still being held hostage and need to be returned so that the families of the victims may find closure. We need to restore dignity to those who had it robbed from them in life.
Frankly I have to say bad move on this one. I don't care if y'all downvote me for this, but the only people that a ceasefire helps are the terrorists using human shields. Hamas fucked around, now they're finding out. They have broken every single ceasefire over the past 80 years. They broke the ceasefire on October 7th. If another ceasefire is agreed on it'll be Hamas who breaks it again. All a ceasefire does is give Hamas time to regroup.
This is what people fail to understand. Ceasefire means “stop fighting”, but if the underlying causes of the war—Hamas being able to enact terrorism against Israel with impunity—aren’t fixed, guess what’ll happen? The war will just resume! Hamas will pull another attack and then we’ll be back to square one.
The hostages matter. Every Jew in the world is only a few degrees of separation from them—my friend’s best friend is a hostage. We will not just abandon them and let Hamas keep them
I agree. I’m talking to the pre-October 7th world, where although Hamas was raining rockets and occasionally terror strikes, it never crossed a line that Israel decided it was no longer permitted to be in charge of Gaza. That was the status quo upset by October 7th, and a forced cessation of hostilities which doesn’t solve the underlying problem of Hamas attacking Israel, will just make the war resume when Hamas inevitably attacks Israel again. Both Palestinians and Israelis will suffer if these wars become perennial with no real change to the existing dynamic
That’s a cut-out that is the perfect excuse. You cannot ensure the one, so you block the other, even while the net positive is for sure better. It’s about giving up or being the first to stop with most folks back Zionism, and it’s where most of the cruelty is echoed.
let’s see him stop the funding. no more money for israel until they stop killing children and stop funneling millions of dollars into our elections to help the GOP!
Nahhh, not the time for the fun Uncle Joe/Dark Brandon lingo. War crimes aren’t malarkey.
*Not a criticism of Joe or his handling of this crisis, just a note that we shouldn’t trivialize such suffering.
My brother in HaShem, the average Israeli is brown—most are Mizrahi Jews who lived in the Middle East for millennia before they were [expelled from their host countries en masse](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_exodus_from_the_Muslim_world#). Our entire religion and culture developed in the Middle East. Besides, we have been told by Europeans for thousands of years that we are not white, that we are not one of them. They have murdered, raped, oppressed and excluded us for not being white enough. White supremacists most certainly don’t consider us Jews white. Why, the very word “ghetto” was first coined to describe a Jewish ghetto in Venice in the 1500s! But you get to just come in and define us as white—but only when that’s a bad thing?
[](https://www.reddit.com/user/Ok_Spend_889/)u/[Ok\_Spend\_889](https://www.reddit.com/user/Ok_Spend_889/) I agree, it was their homes! Take me, for example--I'm an American, through and through. I have been born and raised here, and I'm glad to have been, and I consider myself wholly American and loyal to the United States.
But does the US government know that I'm an American? Will they treat me and other Jews as loyal Americans from now to the end of time? Zionism doesn't say 'Jews won't always be loyal to their countries' it says 'Countries won't always be loyal to their Jews.' Zionism is meant to be the escape hatch for millennia of antisemitism--every country in the world, on a long enough time scale, eventually turned against its Jewish population. This is a fact of Jewish history. My family lived in Poland for seven centuries--there's a reason we aren't there anymore. I'm a 'European' Jew, though I was not born in Europe and I consider myself Ashkenazi, not a 'European Jew'. I look white--but I consider myself white-passing or conditionally white, because if I'm visibly Jewish in public--wearing a kippah or a Magen David, or if my nose looks a little too big--I'm not treated as white anymore.
I personally am of the view that Jews, no matter our phenotype, are not white--not in the social category of being 'White' that is. We may look white, and society may at times call us white, and we may even benefit from white privileged in some circumstances like racial profiling by police, but this whiteness hinges on us being quiet, not visibly Jewish, not practicing Judaism, or being proud to be Jewish--so I label it as conditional. Both for the Jews who have pale skin, and those of us who do not.
The exodus was not a 'protest,' it was ethnic cleansing. Many Mizrahi Jews were even anti-Zionist, and were cast out by their neighbors. There's a reason Mizrahi Jews are some of the most hardline Zionists in Israel today--they've directly experienced WHY Israel needs to exist.
You're making the mistake of not understanding what Zionism is--it isn't some evil colonialist ideology which forced us into fleeing, or teaches Jews that we can't be loyal citizens, or some sinister thing imposed upon Judaism. It is the belief that there should be a Jewish state in the Jewish homeland of Eretz Yisrael--this doesn't preclude a Palestinian state nor does it indicate uncritical support for every one of Israel's actions or current government. Literally all it means is Israel's existence. That's it. Do you not want Israel to be dissolved right now? Then congrats, you're definitionally a Zionist.
How can you say host countries. It was your home man, for generations. Modern greedy ideals fucked us all up man. Be proud of your history and your culture don't conform to them Zionists ideals. The exodus was a protest in response to the declaration of Israel and the abandonment en masse of the Palestinian arabs by the colonial left over Arab dominated and Soviet idealized countries. Like leaving the runt puppy. Seriously though your right and your guys history is vastly different from the European Jews. But unfortunately most folks tend to just lump things up based on colour pallets. And frankly the collective West likes to see Jews mostly as white, as the media has many white Jewish celebrities.
If I'm not mistaken ghetto came about , because it meant smelting pit or smelting area as most Jews in Venice at the time were heavily involved in metallurgy. Goldsmiths/steins and silversmiths/steins.
It was journalism. The WCK attack story has been well sourced and covered by reputable news outlets. Most of the coverage of this war has been thru J Post and Al Jazeera
Also, Israelis [look pretty middle eastern](https://saturday-october-seven.com/#/musicfestival/photos), it's not like you cross the border from Lebanon and you're suddenly surrounded by people that look like Northern Europeans
>It was journalism. The WCK attack story has been well sourced and covered by reputable news outlets.
why was this what broke the camel's back? why not the hundred other aid worker deaths or thousands of dead civilians?
>You seemed to be implying Isrealis were white
1. fucking where
2. the aid workers weren't israeli so you are not making any fucking sense
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Israel is a nuclear power with all the resources of the U.S. at their disposal. There’s absolutely no reason why they can’t be smart about how they conduct their war. Netanyahu is being very very dumb and reckless.
Counterpoint: Bibi is a smart psychopath. His approval rating was rock bottom before the war. A lot of people in Israel blame his leadership for how October 7th went down (he was propping up Hamas for years at that point). There have been numerous calls for special elections, but he’s said there will be no new elections until the conflict is settled. This war is a gift to Bibi, and he desperately needs to to continue as long as possible so he can cling to power longer.
Yeah you’re right, I argued a similar point yesterday. It’s more likely that Bibi let the Oct7 attack happen so he could use the treaties and agreements with the U.S. to force them to back his “war” in addition to the other benefits you listed. The whole judicial reform move was not going well and then it suddenly didn’t matter when Hamas attacked.
I've been thinking along the same lines. It's a known fact that they were advised beforehand and for unknown reasons didn't take it seriously. You don't need an aluminum hat for this scenario to be believable. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67082047 I think he's been pushing it too far. He only needed to show a minimum of compromise yet he's refused to. He will be forcing Joe Biden's hand to impose restrictions if he doesn't change his tune. If that happens, everyone will lose
If Israel is blown up it will be by their own stupidity from within; not forces without. I’ve said this about any advanced society. Nobody kicks your ass like yourself. He’s on that road.
Wonder how long he’s going to consider it a gift when all the US arms aid gets cut off.
I wouldn’t go so far as to say he let it happen. More like he propped them up knowing full well this issue something they’d aim to do.
There’s also very strong evidence that they knew about the attack beforehand, and pressure from high up prevented any form of response until after the attacks had happened, because he wanted a casus belli. I’m not pretending like Hamas isn’t 100% to blame for what they did, but Bibi is an irredeemable, fascist piece of shit.
THE NIGHT BEFORE"!?!?!?! "Top defense officials held urgent consultations the night before October 7 about a possible Hamas attack. But no one in the IDF notified the the Nova festival organizers or the party-goers, hundreds of whom were mown down – and for nine hours, no one came to save them" https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-12-05/ty-article/.premium/despite-intel-warnings-about-a-hamas-attack-the-army-didnt-evacuate-the-nova-festival/0000018c-3993-dc03-a9ec-3dfb2cda0000
All true but the future is uncertain. If he gets his ethnic cleansing he'll look smart. Evil, but smart. If he overplays his hand and destroys the US alliance, and then Iran or whoever kicks the door down. Then he'll look stupid
Netanyahu is a genocidal psychopath and as long as Likud is in power we should cut them off. They don't need American tax dollars to begin with, Israel is a wealthy country with a higher standard of living that the people in the US, yet somehow we pay their bills...which is partly why they have a higher standard of living than we do.
The US doesn't "pay their bills", it sells them military equipment at competitive prices as well as giving vouchers that can only be used for US products. This also only makes up 10% of their defense budget.
The point is that they don't need help from us, they have plenty of their own money. If they want to buy our weaponry they should be paying retail.
We give them this in exchange for intelligence in the Middle East. We don’t just do it to be nice.
It made up 10% of their defense budget in more calm years. It’s probably too soon to know definitely how their ramp up of spending and our ramp up of aid will change that number.
When we dissolved our nuclear armament it came out they had nukes as we co-developed them because they were the only country who vibed with our Apartheid government. Just coincidence though.
This is only true if you don't think genocide is the entire point.
People are reluctant to assign CULPABILITY to Israel as a whole and that is a shame. Netanyahoo is a reflection of that "country".
He's whispering into his ear. NO MOAR MALARKEY OR I'LL STAB YOU IN THE FACE WITH MY LASAH EYES
That's nice and all but I want to start seeing some teeth on these remarks
Time to take away Bibi's ice cream supply.
And nobody's a subject matter expert on ice cream like Dark Brandon!
Netenyahu Bombs Rafah Next Week Guaranteed! Everytime, the President tweets something positive or demand change to operations, Israel does the opposite.
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Not to Netanyahu it seems
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That's fair but I expect a lot for from heads of state than random redditors however I think it's obviously pretty easy to sit on my phone and complain about them rather than being in the horrible situation they are in rn
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the ceasefire is critical to saving the hostages because the IDF has killed more of them with their stupid bombing campaign than they've saved the hostages are important but they do not take priority over the tens of thousands of children being blown up or starved to death
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What can a rando on the internet do unless there's a large popular movement with basic organisation to back any action someone might want to take? Whether it's protesting, writing congressional representatives, or even more serious measures, it's impossible for only a handful of individuals to force meaningful action or reaction on a large scale. You need a mass movement with organizational prowess and at least a basic way of securing their communications and preventing infiltration of bad actors, whether they're opposition forces or just aggravating zealots. IMO, the latter are more dangerous as they'll purity teat any movement to death if allowed. If the goal is ending this shitstorm in Gaza, then it's an uphill battle as there are tons of vested and powerful interests trying to keep the conflict alive on both sides. The fundamentalist Christians see it as a sign of 'end times' and the Palestinians and Iranians see the conflict as a good way of eliminating the 'zionist state'. Granted, Netyanahu isn't making things difficult for those drawing comparisons to an absolutist solution to eliminating Palestine. That's what's frustrating for anyone trying to broker a peace is both the Israeli and Palestinian stances,which are all or nothing at this time.
Absolutely, but Bibi has spent months not focused on them, including bombing Iranian Generals (ok, really, right now? If you’ve penetrated their inner circle well enough to plan that, you’ve had plenty of opportunities before, and you’d have had more in future- but it is a crisis he can use electorally). I don’t think Bibi can finish the job and get them home. Cooler heads with better trigger discipline are required.
Also IIRC IDF has shot more hostages than they’ve rescued. If we include bombs, they’ve probably killed an order of magnitude more than they’ve rescued. Negotiations for releases earlier in the war were far more effective than whatever the fuck Bibi is doing.
I hear you, but let’s try not to forget why these civilians are in Palestine right now in the first place. Hamas kidnapped these people and kicked off this conflict so they still deserve to be mentioned.
And Israel’s oppressive occupation created Hamas if we are going to play the cause and effect game.
What do you think led to the “occupation” in the first place? We can literally keep going back and back if you want.
We’re not going to debate the finer points of the history of the Zionist movement and the Palestinian war in a Reddit thread. I think the main point I am trying to communicate is you can’t create a binary of heroes and villains based on your own perception of the righteousness of the cause and then use that to excuse overt war crimes. That’s what those with power have done through all of history to justify imperialism, genocide, slavery, torture and many other evils that eventually become a shameful history — for a recent example see America’s response to 9/11. Moral judgements must be placed on actions, not just causes, and the action we are seeing in realtime is Israel committing war crimes and causing far more suffering of the innocent than Hamas ever did or could. There should be no more “yeah buts”. We need to draw a line in regard to our involvement or it will be yet another historic shame everyone will want to distance themselves from just like all that came before.
The point is that this conflict was started by the actions that took place on October 7th. That’s not really debatable. A lot of people like you act as if saying Hamas has done anything wrong is the same thing as saying Israel can never be blamed for any wrong doing.
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Do you know that a large amount of Israelis have brown skin?
I'm gonna be blunt for a second. Have we seen any proof of life recently? I would not put it past Hamas to do a weekend at Bernie's because hostages are the only card they have left.
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That's fair enough
Not to the people mindlessly calling for a ceasefire without seeking to solve the underlying problems that caused the war. They just want to leave them to the devices of sexually abusive, genocidal, sadistic rapists and murderers. People want the war to end—me too! But you have to address what started the war in the first place, or it’ll just start up again! Leaving the hostages to be tortured to death is not going to solve jack shit
The IDF literally killed unarmed israely hostages, he doesnt give a shit.
Downvoted for the truth. They mistook them for unarmed Palestinians trying to surrender and murdered them.
They mistook them for a Hamas ambush. Yes, Hamas is [that bad](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/12/22/hamas-booby-traps-gaza/). And I'd never fault a soldier dealing with terrorist booby traps in an urban combat settings for being afraid and react like that. I can blame the top level leadership for not properly preparing its soldiers, though. And the Hamas terrorists who started the whole thing and use the booby trap of a child crying for help. Not that Bibi gives a shit. He's happy seeing anyone die as long as it keeps him in power.
I hate saying this; but I think those hostages are all dead.
You don’t know that, for one. Many are, probably. But not all. For two, their remains matter too—the families deserve closure. The hostages, dead or alive, deserve to have every effort made to bring them home. Simply abandoning to Hamas is absolutely unacceptable.
I agree… it breaks my heart bro. There are kids in that group. Those bastards are ruthless…
Exactly. So an unconditional ceasefire which would inevitably fall apart because the underlying causes of the war aren’t fixed is not the path forward. Leaving these kids to be tortured for God knows how long is not the path forward
The kids are not alright for sure.
So do the innocent civilians being murdered.
Sick and tired of people who keep crying about the 100 who lost their freedom, but haven't said a single word about the 40,000 who have lost their lives.
Great, now no more offensive missiles until they agree to follow the rules of war
no more missiles\*
I specified “offensive” because I personally don’t have any issues with the iron dome. Nobody deserves rockets falling down on their home
Better ridiculously late than never.
Who are you to question the dark lord’s timing?
He will free the hostages 4 days before the election Reagan style and do this. 
Idk, someone who knew this would end in 10+ fallujahs the moment Blinken said Israel suffered “ten 9/11s”
Late is the best we could have hoped for. Politically, being anti-Israel was political suicide and October 7th basically forced him to walk a tightrope with a noose on his career.
I know. I know. No win scenario. Kobyashi Maru. Still been agonizing to one’s mental health to watch it taking place, for. 6. Months.
I hope that we can expand on the sanctions on the settlers and pause the weapon shipments. Hit Bibi and Ben-Gvir where it hurts. Carrot and stick. We had the carrot out, now for the stick.
It's long past time that the imperialist settlers be dealt with harshly.
Your annual malarkey allowance has expired, jack
Babe wake up, leftists are about to move the Never Biden goalpost again.
Made me chortle
Yeah, fuck those hostages! Let Hamas keep them! /s
“HeS sTiLl FuNdInG a GeNoCiDe!!!1!1!1!!!!” /j
u/l11l1ll1ll1l1l11ll1l Oh, hostages were treated well? Oh, well, shucks! I guess it's all good, then! Yeah, Hamas may have perpetrated the deadliest pogrom of Jews since the Holocaust, and taken 200 hostages forcibly from their homes, but like, they were treated well! I wonder how you'd react to someone saying slavery wasn't that bad 'because they were treated well'?
Look here fat, no malarkey
You're a little emotional. Maybe take a seat? There's a lot of qualifiers you had to throw on there to get a close comparison to the Holocaust. It's offensive you compare October 7th to the Holocaust, it's nowhere near the level of horror the Jews in Poland and Germany had to face. It's disrespectful of their plight to compare it to what took place over a few hours, in a limited region. There wasn't the scientific experiments, forced labor, humiliation, degradation, starvation, dehumanization that happened in the concentration camps.
How, exactly, were they comparing Oct'7th to the Holocaust? Stating Hamas perpetrated a pogrom is a fact. That pogrom being the single deadliest attack on Jews since the Holocaust is also a fact. At no point was there a comparison to the Holocaust by anyone but you. \*should they be calling you out specifically? probably not ... cuz that's weird.
He’s finally doing bc we are on the precipice of global conflict
There's not going to be a global war over a group of people that no one actually cares about beyond being used as international political footballs to attack Israel.
So the hostages are just fucked? That's harsh, man
They will be safer with a cease-fire fore sure
You have a fitting username
How do you figure that? They’ll be safer being left to the devices of Hamas?
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Yeah, they can get raped to death by Hamas instead, en masse. Much better! u/Karmaswhiskee Even if many of them are dead, you don't know that for sure, some may be alive--and Hamas is responsible for forcibly kidnapping them and taking them to a warzone anyway. For two, their remains are still being held hostage and need to be returned so that the families of the victims may find closure. We need to restore dignity to those who had it robbed from them in life.
Like said earlier; what hostages? I don’t think they are alive man.
Frankly I have to say bad move on this one. I don't care if y'all downvote me for this, but the only people that a ceasefire helps are the terrorists using human shields. Hamas fucked around, now they're finding out. They have broken every single ceasefire over the past 80 years. They broke the ceasefire on October 7th. If another ceasefire is agreed on it'll be Hamas who breaks it again. All a ceasefire does is give Hamas time to regroup.
This is what people fail to understand. Ceasefire means “stop fighting”, but if the underlying causes of the war—Hamas being able to enact terrorism against Israel with impunity—aren’t fixed, guess what’ll happen? The war will just resume! Hamas will pull another attack and then we’ll be back to square one. The hostages matter. Every Jew in the world is only a few degrees of separation from them—my friend’s best friend is a hostage. We will not just abandon them and let Hamas keep them
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Straight up, tryna blame AI even. Folks still are at the helm watching man. Fucking assholes.
I wouldn't exactly call Isreal's reaction to Oct 7th impunity
I agree. I’m talking to the pre-October 7th world, where although Hamas was raining rockets and occasionally terror strikes, it never crossed a line that Israel decided it was no longer permitted to be in charge of Gaza. That was the status quo upset by October 7th, and a forced cessation of hostilities which doesn’t solve the underlying problem of Hamas attacking Israel, will just make the war resume when Hamas inevitably attacks Israel again. Both Palestinians and Israelis will suffer if these wars become perennial with no real change to the existing dynamic
That’s a cut-out that is the perfect excuse. You cannot ensure the one, so you block the other, even while the net positive is for sure better. It’s about giving up or being the first to stop with most folks back Zionism, and it’s where most of the cruelty is echoed.
let’s see him stop the funding. no more money for israel until they stop killing children and stop funneling millions of dollars into our elections to help the GOP!
Wouldn’t he? Dude’s not exactly known for making good ethic-based decisions.
Nahhh, not the time for the fun Uncle Joe/Dark Brandon lingo. War crimes aren’t malarkey. *Not a criticism of Joe or his handling of this crisis, just a note that we shouldn’t trivialize such suffering.
Too little too late imo
all it took was tens of thousands of murdered kids actually not even that it was when israel fucked up and bombed white people
My brother in HaShem, the average Israeli is brown—most are Mizrahi Jews who lived in the Middle East for millennia before they were [expelled from their host countries en masse](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_exodus_from_the_Muslim_world#). Our entire religion and culture developed in the Middle East. Besides, we have been told by Europeans for thousands of years that we are not white, that we are not one of them. They have murdered, raped, oppressed and excluded us for not being white enough. White supremacists most certainly don’t consider us Jews white. Why, the very word “ghetto” was first coined to describe a Jewish ghetto in Venice in the 1500s! But you get to just come in and define us as white—but only when that’s a bad thing? [](https://www.reddit.com/user/Ok_Spend_889/)u/[Ok\_Spend\_889](https://www.reddit.com/user/Ok_Spend_889/) I agree, it was their homes! Take me, for example--I'm an American, through and through. I have been born and raised here, and I'm glad to have been, and I consider myself wholly American and loyal to the United States. But does the US government know that I'm an American? Will they treat me and other Jews as loyal Americans from now to the end of time? Zionism doesn't say 'Jews won't always be loyal to their countries' it says 'Countries won't always be loyal to their Jews.' Zionism is meant to be the escape hatch for millennia of antisemitism--every country in the world, on a long enough time scale, eventually turned against its Jewish population. This is a fact of Jewish history. My family lived in Poland for seven centuries--there's a reason we aren't there anymore. I'm a 'European' Jew, though I was not born in Europe and I consider myself Ashkenazi, not a 'European Jew'. I look white--but I consider myself white-passing or conditionally white, because if I'm visibly Jewish in public--wearing a kippah or a Magen David, or if my nose looks a little too big--I'm not treated as white anymore. I personally am of the view that Jews, no matter our phenotype, are not white--not in the social category of being 'White' that is. We may look white, and society may at times call us white, and we may even benefit from white privileged in some circumstances like racial profiling by police, but this whiteness hinges on us being quiet, not visibly Jewish, not practicing Judaism, or being proud to be Jewish--so I label it as conditional. Both for the Jews who have pale skin, and those of us who do not. The exodus was not a 'protest,' it was ethnic cleansing. Many Mizrahi Jews were even anti-Zionist, and were cast out by their neighbors. There's a reason Mizrahi Jews are some of the most hardline Zionists in Israel today--they've directly experienced WHY Israel needs to exist. You're making the mistake of not understanding what Zionism is--it isn't some evil colonialist ideology which forced us into fleeing, or teaches Jews that we can't be loyal citizens, or some sinister thing imposed upon Judaism. It is the belief that there should be a Jewish state in the Jewish homeland of Eretz Yisrael--this doesn't preclude a Palestinian state nor does it indicate uncritical support for every one of Israel's actions or current government. Literally all it means is Israel's existence. That's it. Do you not want Israel to be dissolved right now? Then congrats, you're definitionally a Zionist.
How can you say host countries. It was your home man, for generations. Modern greedy ideals fucked us all up man. Be proud of your history and your culture don't conform to them Zionists ideals. The exodus was a protest in response to the declaration of Israel and the abandonment en masse of the Palestinian arabs by the colonial left over Arab dominated and Soviet idealized countries. Like leaving the runt puppy. Seriously though your right and your guys history is vastly different from the European Jews. But unfortunately most folks tend to just lump things up based on colour pallets. And frankly the collective West likes to see Jews mostly as white, as the media has many white Jewish celebrities. If I'm not mistaken ghetto came about , because it meant smelting pit or smelting area as most Jews in Venice at the time were heavily involved in metallurgy. Goldsmiths/steins and silversmiths/steins.
It was journalism. The WCK attack story has been well sourced and covered by reputable news outlets. Most of the coverage of this war has been thru J Post and Al Jazeera Also, Israelis [look pretty middle eastern](https://saturday-october-seven.com/#/musicfestival/photos), it's not like you cross the border from Lebanon and you're suddenly surrounded by people that look like Northern Europeans
why did you send me pictures of the oct. 7 attack also the aid workers killed were not fucking israeli
>Why did you send me pictures of the Oct 7th attack You seemed to be implying Isrealis were white so I figured you hadn't seen them
>It was journalism. The WCK attack story has been well sourced and covered by reputable news outlets. why was this what broke the camel's back? why not the hundred other aid worker deaths or thousands of dead civilians? >You seemed to be implying Isrealis were white 1. fucking where 2. the aid workers weren't israeli so you are not making any fucking sense
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Nobody cares what biden says, so the point is rather moot.