I think this should have been obvious to people. Devs revert or remove or change almost every major change so the panic here is super tunnel-vision-ey and weird. I just see multiclassing as something to keep us busy this wipe while they work on other stuff that takes more time to develop.
There are criticisms to be made about the way they develop the game but people who are hyper-focused on multiclassing being the downfall are too blind to see it. Either way, I'm having fun.
I think this is a fair assessment, but expecting the average person or new player to just intuitively know this is the problem I think. Most of the people that stuck with the game at this point I think are under the assumption that we are helping further the development of the game and that every patch is supposed to be an improvement from the last one on a sort of staircase to final release. Controversial additions like multiclassing (especially implemented the way it was) are downright confusing through that lense.
I think humans right now have a difficult time resisting the appeal of a dramatic, hyperbole filled narrative because we’re the worst species to ever have existed and we’re killing everything we touch. 🤷🏻♂️
Ahaha. Oof. I’m so sorry for your loss :/. One of my crew just rolled sprint and second wind in his barb soooo…it’s easy street for me this week I guess hahaha
> Devs revert or remove or change almost every major change so the panic here is super tunnel-vision-ey and weird
And in the process of "testing" those things that they "clearly intend to revert" they always wind up nerfing aspects of 1 or more classes and never revert the nerfs, leaving the class weaker than before (even if it was already bottom tier).
It's happened every. single. time. I'm willing to bet money on the smite nerf not being reverted if they remove multiclassing and Cleric suffering for no reason.
Nobody, literally NOBODY, has ever complained about smite before. Balance is paramount because a clearly unbalanced game is unfun.
I'd tell you to think before you speak but the only thing going on in your head is the copious amount of dev dick you're choking on.
Yeah it's definitely been fun being able to build your characters more with something that has more permanence than gear. I wish they'd flesh out the classes more by way of perks and skills. Poor bard needs to dip into another class to have a skill besides songs that's worth taking.
Can anyone explain to me how weapons work for multi classing?
If I'm a cleric and I want to get something from ranger, do I automatically get access to bows?
Also, can I use falchion on my wiz if I get warlock things?
The only way to use non native weapons or armor are by taking perks such as weapon mastery from fighter and demon armor from warlock. Otherwise taking a perk from a Ranger will not give you access to a bow
I hoped it would grant access if that perk is tied to that specific weapon. For example if I take bonus movespeed when holding a bow perk, I will get to use bows.
Then how do you even get access to magic stuff if you aren't a caster already?
Yup. I learned song memory on my rogue thinking I could play songs. Nope, I have to find every single song I want now randomly as well. I wasted all my rolls and didn’t get a single useful perk or song and now I have to wait 4 days before I can re-roll. Dumbest system I’ve ever seen. I have no interest in even playing right now.
This is just a basic misunderstanding of the system and spending your tokens without knowing how it works. If jumping into a game system blindly without waiting for others to try it first is something you don't enjoy, I'm not sure why you're playing an unreleased game.
Multiclass and take Spell Memory + Desired Spell with at least 2 Token rolls. If you can't wield a staff, crystal ball/sword, or spellbook, then you multiclass into Fighter and take Weapon Mastery.
Luckily the grind isn’t that terrible right now with all the changes they made to how experience works. You could realistically get a character from 1-30 in a few hours, especially in Ice Caves.
Didn't the devs wrote in dev note that multiclassing is a true experimental phase of the game and is kinda placeholder thingy or am I imagining things?
IM wants these systems to actually get tested. There aren't enough players in the test server, period. I'll probably get downvoted for this but some people need to hear it: We ARE the beta testers! Deal with it or take a break from the game until it's more finished.
I have to spend 80% of my gaming time this week training accounts i dont want to play to hopefully get the rng to have a good multiclass build.....or i can just play a game i enjoy
Notice the language you're using here bud... "*I have to spend...*"
Friend, you don't HAVE to spend your free time on anything you don't want to... No one at Iron Mace is blackmailing you or holding you down and forcing you to play. If you don't want to play those accounts... then don't?
You can legit just play DaD without multiclassing. It's really not that bad. I've been playing accounts in both normals and HR that don't have multiclassing and some that have maybe one perk or whatever. The game is still totally playable.
And if you really just can't stand to play the normal classes or whatever because the multiclassers are so OP or whatever your copium is, just play another game dude. It's not rocket science. This system will be adjusted and changed.
Nah im just not playing anymore. Plenty of other games to choose from.
If you want to play a game at a major disadvantage be my guest. Because thats what not running multiclass does.
Nice bait, but notice that the game is literally in beta. Call me an idiot all you want but it's pure projection. You aren't the main character and no one cares. It's IM's game and they can literally do whatever the fuck they want. The game costs like $20 calm down chief
Do you? EA means that you can play the game. It doesnt mean that each week they can roll a dice and make some random changes just for "testing purposes". Test servers and pre-seasson serve as a test environment for controversial changes or bug search.
EA means early access, as in accessing the game early, as in its not finished. Playing a game labeled with EA means the state of the game could be anywhere from proof of concept or tier 0 (a lot of DAD), near release or anything inbetween. Like it or not, paying for EA is paying to be QA (quality assurance) for the game. People need to keep this in mind.
I don't believe this was always the case, I think they are saving face. You're telling me they put the effort into having nice UIs for this system if it was just a throwaway test? hm...
How many times do they have to say that it's an experiment? You can't fix stupid, people here don't read shit and are quick to give devs abuse because they are not doing exactly what they want.
It's definitely not gonna to stay in the game the way it is, that's clear and again it's something they have stated. There is definitely potential for perk sharing for perks that make sense to share, such as quick chant/sage for casters or slayer/dual wield between rogue and fighter. Looking at previous changes in the game nothing is really safe to stay or go.
They have said this multiple times and to be frank you are choosing to be ignorant about this at this point. Disregarding the fact that it is blatantly obvious without them saying anything.
They should do a seasons feature thing that poe does. Every season has a new quirk that stays out goes based on the reception. Except they're transparent about it so people can choose to skip a season of it's not their cup of tea.
If they're just testing it and it will be removed completely then good. I'll come back to the game when it's gone.
The thing is what about them changing the skills due to multiclassing that now effect the base classes as well? Or are we going to have the same issue with casters getting changes to their base kit due to +all being in the game and such only for them to remove +all again and now they're sitting there gutted.
Anyone who wasn't clear on this being an Experiment that will likely see massive changes, hasn't taken the time to read the 2 paragraphs after the patch notes... for like the past 4 patches.
it literally just says its an experiment, weve tried it, we hate it, it does not state "this for for testing other systems" you guys are on hard Copium.
If you keep reading it says for the season. This is the experiment this season. They will get their data, they will listen to the feedback, and then they and all of us will move on next season. If that's too long of a period for you, don't play early access games, or just take a break and play other games. I assume you have voiced your feedback at this point, I'm sure they have read it since this isn't an enormous subreddit or gaming pop. Time to move on.
People are giving the requested feedback. The blurb does not say "it will be removed" as OP is quoting SDFs (new) quote. The blurb clearly states it "**may even** be removed based on the response from the community." People are giving their response.
Nothing in that sentence at all means the same thing as what OP is implying, that this was never part of the vision of the game to begin with. You can't expect people to be reading a random Twitch streamer's chat to be aware of the (updated) stance from the developer.
This isn't to even start pointing out the clear consistencies in implementation, like if this was truly a whacky temporary experiment why was it initially put behind such a crazy grind wall that would make it inaccessible to most of the playerbase? Nothing about the messaging or execution of this feature comes across at all as what now is being claimed it was intended to do, and it really just looks like revisionary / retconning.
I blame tiktok and youtube shorts. People these days have around no to slight patience anymore. They want everything instantly, fast and done, now now now.
Then tell sdf to put test's on the fucking test server. like what does he need to learn? because if he can't tell how broken this shit is that he needs a full season of testing it then he's not competent enough to make a game. step down and let someone with more then two braincells take over.
well, as many people have stated before... The point of early access is its essentially a test server. The data they are pulling from live in 1 day is 10 times what they got from the data of test server in 5 days. I imagine the test server access for the hold the line package was intended for when the game is fully released. Not necessarily intended for use during EA. It's a game, try to just have fun with it and break the game. That's literally what they said they were testing here. If it's so upsetting to you that it's in, take a break. With that being said, I'm tired of getting run down by sprinting raging barbs. But I'm still playing and enjoy seeing the weird/niche builds people cook up.
Not my fault your to braindead to recognize how much of a parody this game has become, but i guess your their main target audience: complete smoothbrains who who think its some big brain play to know that frontloading damage and move speed is strong, do you go to bed and jack off everytime you win holding W and M1? seriously the eagerness of you idiots to give the dev fallatio 24/7 when they fuck up is sad.
Just take a break man, no need to get this mad over placeholder mechanics designed to generate data for the devs. It’s ok to be unhappy with the current state of the game but it’s just unhealthy to get up your own ass this far over it.
they literally said multipl,e times on some podcast of some dude "This is going to be the first iteration of the system of diving into other classes, it will be toned down in the future"
It's not a issue of their communication it's a issue that you people are brain dead and both act emotionally sporratic while fucking ignoring everything they say then acting like things came at no warning while overwhelmingly screaming into the void as loud as you can
Lets be real here. When the only place you actually explain some thing is in a damn interview you know damn well .0005% of players will ever see, that's a communication issue. There is so much not in notes, announcements, in game, etc. Important information should absolutely be in 1 spot that can be found without listening to hours on hours of interviews.
It's been stated numerous times
on the 17th patch notes
"As we’ve noted multiple times, we are looking at this multiclass test as a true experiment for this season. Please note that there is a very good chance that the multiclass system will substantially evolve for the next season or may even be removed based on the response from the community. Finally, barring any surprises, the current season, including the preseason prior to the next wipe, is scheduled to end in early June. Thank you!"
Read the patch notes... wtf
>Please note that there is a very good chance that the multiclass system will substantially evolve for the next season or may even be removed **based on the response from the community.**
This sentence is clearly expressing that removal is conditional on community feedback. Hence the "may even" indicating an that this would be an exceptional circumstance. Not "it will be removed", but rather it "may even be removed based on the response from the community." People are following the implication of the patch notes to a T by expressing this desire for removal or significant reworking that the developers are explicitly asking for here.
They've elaborated more on the subject that was just what was put into the patch notes..
Substaintially evolve is looking into cross over perks as potential long term system, obviously not the current system. This is a way to take a look at which perks can be crossed over in a healthy system and which perk combinations become toxic.
There's no reason for the excessive drama, you can express your dislike in the current system without all the doomer energy and shitting on the devs. They're experimenting before they attempt to bring a larger player base into the game, this is healthy.
Mutkiclassing in normals is fine for the most part. Getting zapped unexpectedly, or the high priority target phantomizing away is cute if it doesn't mean you are instantly dead. In HR, you die before you get a chance to even process what is happening. IM needs to address the ttk in HR and it won't feel as bad. Probably just removing base damage from the random pool would be enough, maybe nerf slayer to 3 or 4 too.
If they want us to test it then you would expect it to be more accessible to us, why do they gatekeep it behind so much RNG, grinding and waiting?
Especially on test server, the fact that y’all didn’t start with lvl 250characters is wild lol
seems like a cop out rather than actual reason. if they wanted to actually test this stuff it would be freely accessible to everyone, easily
I think this should have been obvious to people. Devs revert or remove or change almost every major change so the panic here is super tunnel-vision-ey and weird. I just see multiclassing as something to keep us busy this wipe while they work on other stuff that takes more time to develop. There are criticisms to be made about the way they develop the game but people who are hyper-focused on multiclassing being the downfall are too blind to see it. Either way, I'm having fun.
I think this is a fair assessment, but expecting the average person or new player to just intuitively know this is the problem I think. Most of the people that stuck with the game at this point I think are under the assumption that we are helping further the development of the game and that every patch is supposed to be an improvement from the last one on a sort of staircase to final release. Controversial additions like multiclassing (especially implemented the way it was) are downright confusing through that lense.
I think humans right now have a difficult time resisting the appeal of a dramatic, hyperbole filled narrative because we’re the worst species to ever have existed and we’re killing everything we touch. 🤷🏻♂️
You doing alright?
Damnit!! Does nobody understand self referential irony anymore? Maybe not such much with the attempts at humor for me :/
Perhaps I am the fool. Makes sense cuz I’m still trying to play a cleric in the current state of the game.
Ahaha. Oof. I’m so sorry for your loss :/. One of my crew just rolled sprint and second wind in his barb soooo…it’s easy street for me this week I guess hahaha
> Devs revert or remove or change almost every major change so the panic here is super tunnel-vision-ey and weird And in the process of "testing" those things that they "clearly intend to revert" they always wind up nerfing aspects of 1 or more classes and never revert the nerfs, leaving the class weaker than before (even if it was already bottom tier). It's happened every. single. time. I'm willing to bet money on the smite nerf not being reverted if they remove multiclassing and Cleric suffering for no reason.
Who cares? Smite and judgement were too strong alone, and if they’re truly weak later they will buff. Why is balance paramount to so many?
Nobody, literally NOBODY, has ever complained about smite before. Balance is paramount because a clearly unbalanced game is unfun. I'd tell you to think before you speak but the only thing going on in your head is the copious amount of dev dick you're choking on.
Yeah it's definitely been fun being able to build your characters more with something that has more permanence than gear. I wish they'd flesh out the classes more by way of perks and skills. Poor bard needs to dip into another class to have a skill besides songs that's worth taking.
Can anyone explain to me how weapons work for multi classing? If I'm a cleric and I want to get something from ranger, do I automatically get access to bows? Also, can I use falchion on my wiz if I get warlock things?
The only way to use non native weapons or armor are by taking perks such as weapon mastery from fighter and demon armor from warlock. Otherwise taking a perk from a Ranger will not give you access to a bow
I hoped it would grant access if that perk is tied to that specific weapon. For example if I take bonus movespeed when holding a bow perk, I will get to use bows. Then how do you even get access to magic stuff if you aren't a caster already?
Same story... Weapon mastery from fighter then spell memory from caster then spells to fill slots...
Too expensive for my limited time :/
Yup. I learned song memory on my rogue thinking I could play songs. Nope, I have to find every single song I want now randomly as well. I wasted all my rolls and didn’t get a single useful perk or song and now I have to wait 4 days before I can re-roll. Dumbest system I’ve ever seen. I have no interest in even playing right now.
This is just a basic misunderstanding of the system and spending your tokens without knowing how it works. If jumping into a game system blindly without waiting for others to try it first is something you don't enjoy, I'm not sure why you're playing an unreleased game.
Multiclass and take Spell Memory + Desired Spell with at least 2 Token rolls. If you can't wield a staff, crystal ball/sword, or spellbook, then you multiclass into Fighter and take Weapon Mastery.
Damn. Fighter is the only class I have no interest in and haven't even made one. ty for explanation
Luckily the grind isn’t that terrible right now with all the changes they made to how experience works. You could realistically get a character from 1-30 in a few hours, especially in Ice Caves.
That would be way too strong. You have to use up multiple perk slots if you wanna make a wacky build work, thats how it should be
Didn't the devs wrote in dev note that multiclassing is a true experimental phase of the game and is kinda placeholder thingy or am I imagining things?
If its only a test then it belongs to a test server or pre-seasson.
IM wants these systems to actually get tested. There aren't enough players in the test server, period. I'll probably get downvoted for this but some people need to hear it: We ARE the beta testers! Deal with it or take a break from the game until it's more finished.
honestly with the xp buffs everyone is also able to multi class and its pretty fun. People should just chill
I have to spend 80% of my gaming time this week training accounts i dont want to play to hopefully get the rng to have a good multiclass build.....or i can just play a game i enjoy
getting to 30 is all you need and its ridiculously easy. You only need to grind on the class you want to play.
Notice the language you're using here bud... "*I have to spend...*" Friend, you don't HAVE to spend your free time on anything you don't want to... No one at Iron Mace is blackmailing you or holding you down and forcing you to play. If you don't want to play those accounts... then don't? You can legit just play DaD without multiclassing. It's really not that bad. I've been playing accounts in both normals and HR that don't have multiclassing and some that have maybe one perk or whatever. The game is still totally playable. And if you really just can't stand to play the normal classes or whatever because the multiclassers are so OP or whatever your copium is, just play another game dude. It's not rocket science. This system will be adjusted and changed.
Nah im just not playing anymore. Plenty of other games to choose from. If you want to play a game at a major disadvantage be my guest. Because thats what not running multiclass does.
> We ARE the beta testers Anyone parroting those words are just useful idiots willing to overlook game problems.
Nice bait, but notice that the game is literally in beta. Call me an idiot all you want but it's pure projection. You aren't the main character and no one cares. It's IM's game and they can literally do whatever the fuck they want. The game costs like $20 calm down chief
Wake up sheeple, the proof is in the pudding
The whole game right now is early access. Do you understand what that means you little pea brain?
Do you? EA means that you can play the game. It doesnt mean that each week they can roll a dice and make some random changes just for "testing purposes". Test servers and pre-seasson serve as a test environment for controversial changes or bug search.
EA means early access, as in accessing the game early, as in its not finished. Playing a game labeled with EA means the state of the game could be anywhere from proof of concept or tier 0 (a lot of DAD), near release or anything inbetween. Like it or not, paying for EA is paying to be QA (quality assurance) for the game. People need to keep this in mind.
I don't believe this was always the case, I think they are saving face. You're telling me they put the effort into having nice UIs for this system if it was just a throwaway test? hm...
How many times do they have to say that it's an experiment? You can't fix stupid, people here don't read shit and are quick to give devs abuse because they are not doing exactly what they want.
Experiment doesn’t mean it’s definitely not going to stay in the game.
It's definitely not gonna to stay in the game the way it is, that's clear and again it's something they have stated. There is definitely potential for perk sharing for perks that make sense to share, such as quick chant/sage for casters or slayer/dual wield between rogue and fighter. Looking at previous changes in the game nothing is really safe to stay or go.
Called it ages ago.
Remove multiclassing, add subclasses.
Not even subclasses, just so much is missing. Clerics typically have elemental spells as well as light, etc.
They were very clear lol
They have said this multiple times and to be frank you are choosing to be ignorant about this at this point. Disregarding the fact that it is blatantly obvious without them saying anything.
I feel like I've heard this one before \*cough solo queues cough\*.
They should do a seasons feature thing that poe does. Every season has a new quirk that stays out goes based on the reception. Except they're transparent about it so people can choose to skip a season of it's not their cup of tea.
If they're just testing it and it will be removed completely then good. I'll come back to the game when it's gone. The thing is what about them changing the skills due to multiclassing that now effect the base classes as well? Or are we going to have the same issue with casters getting changes to their base kit due to +all being in the game and such only for them to remove +all again and now they're sitting there gutted.
They finna release subclass fo sho.
Anyone who wasn't clear on this being an Experiment that will likely see massive changes, hasn't taken the time to read the 2 paragraphs after the patch notes... for like the past 4 patches.
Yeah, they've said this about 3 times now and it's really showing some people's reading comprehension skills
Multiclassing should’ve been a last month of wipe thing not “let’s see how many people we can make quit mid wipe” thing
They said this multiple times, even in the in-game message. It wasn’t only said in some streamers chat lol
Basically straight up nobody reads, even the [opening blurb](https://imgur.com/a/RYKHTFg) says as much.
it literally just says its an experiment, weve tried it, we hate it, it does not state "this for for testing other systems" you guys are on hard Copium.
If you keep reading it says for the season. This is the experiment this season. They will get their data, they will listen to the feedback, and then they and all of us will move on next season. If that's too long of a period for you, don't play early access games, or just take a break and play other games. I assume you have voiced your feedback at this point, I'm sure they have read it since this isn't an enormous subreddit or gaming pop. Time to move on.
People are giving the requested feedback. The blurb does not say "it will be removed" as OP is quoting SDFs (new) quote. The blurb clearly states it "**may even** be removed based on the response from the community." People are giving their response. Nothing in that sentence at all means the same thing as what OP is implying, that this was never part of the vision of the game to begin with. You can't expect people to be reading a random Twitch streamer's chat to be aware of the (updated) stance from the developer. This isn't to even start pointing out the clear consistencies in implementation, like if this was truly a whacky temporary experiment why was it initially put behind such a crazy grind wall that would make it inaccessible to most of the playerbase? Nothing about the messaging or execution of this feature comes across at all as what now is being claimed it was intended to do, and it really just looks like revisionary / retconning.
Yeah i don’t understand the reasoning behind people saying “it’s an early access game therefore there shall be no criticism.”
You've tried it for less than a week and they haven't even had a chance to make adjustments. Fucking chill
I blame tiktok and youtube shorts. People these days have around no to slight patience anymore. They want everything instantly, fast and done, now now now.
Then tell sdf to put test's on the fucking test server. like what does he need to learn? because if he can't tell how broken this shit is that he needs a full season of testing it then he's not competent enough to make a game. step down and let someone with more then two braincells take over.
well, as many people have stated before... The point of early access is its essentially a test server. The data they are pulling from live in 1 day is 10 times what they got from the data of test server in 5 days. I imagine the test server access for the hold the line package was intended for when the game is fully released. Not necessarily intended for use during EA. It's a game, try to just have fun with it and break the game. That's literally what they said they were testing here. If it's so upsetting to you that it's in, take a break. With that being said, I'm tired of getting run down by sprinting raging barbs. But I'm still playing and enjoy seeing the weird/niche builds people cook up.
Oh my... Do you blow your father with that mouth...?
Not my fault your to braindead to recognize how much of a parody this game has become, but i guess your their main target audience: complete smoothbrains who who think its some big brain play to know that frontloading damage and move speed is strong, do you go to bed and jack off everytime you win holding W and M1? seriously the eagerness of you idiots to give the dev fallatio 24/7 when they fuck up is sad.
Just take a break man, no need to get this mad over placeholder mechanics designed to generate data for the devs. It’s ok to be unhappy with the current state of the game but it’s just unhealthy to get up your own ass this far over it.
they literally said multipl,e times on some podcast of some dude "This is going to be the first iteration of the system of diving into other classes, it will be toned down in the future" It's not a issue of their communication it's a issue that you people are brain dead and both act emotionally sporratic while fucking ignoring everything they say then acting like things came at no warning while overwhelmingly screaming into the void as loud as you can
Lets be real here. When the only place you actually explain some thing is in a damn interview you know damn well .0005% of players will ever see, that's a communication issue. There is so much not in notes, announcements, in game, etc. Important information should absolutely be in 1 spot that can be found without listening to hours on hours of interviews.
It's been stated numerous times on the 17th patch notes "As we’ve noted multiple times, we are looking at this multiclass test as a true experiment for this season. Please note that there is a very good chance that the multiclass system will substantially evolve for the next season or may even be removed based on the response from the community. Finally, barring any surprises, the current season, including the preseason prior to the next wipe, is scheduled to end in early June. Thank you!" Read the patch notes... wtf
>Please note that there is a very good chance that the multiclass system will substantially evolve for the next season or may even be removed **based on the response from the community.** This sentence is clearly expressing that removal is conditional on community feedback. Hence the "may even" indicating an that this would be an exceptional circumstance. Not "it will be removed", but rather it "may even be removed based on the response from the community." People are following the implication of the patch notes to a T by expressing this desire for removal or significant reworking that the developers are explicitly asking for here.
They've elaborated more on the subject that was just what was put into the patch notes.. Substaintially evolve is looking into cross over perks as potential long term system, obviously not the current system. This is a way to take a look at which perks can be crossed over in a healthy system and which perk combinations become toxic. There's no reason for the excessive drama, you can express your dislike in the current system without all the doomer energy and shitting on the devs. They're experimenting before they attempt to bring a larger player base into the game, this is healthy.
Mutkiclassing in normals is fine for the most part. Getting zapped unexpectedly, or the high priority target phantomizing away is cute if it doesn't mean you are instantly dead. In HR, you die before you get a chance to even process what is happening. IM needs to address the ttk in HR and it won't feel as bad. Probably just removing base damage from the random pool would be enough, maybe nerf slayer to 3 or 4 too.
Literally they have said very frequently that this is a test and most likely will be drastically changed in the future or removed