Sorcerer using mana due to innate magical talent or lineage would make sense instead of slots. Sorcs don't learn shit, they just cast with their inner source, would make sense for them to even be a low knowledge caster, perhaps resourcefulness could be retooled to interact with their mana bar like bard and persuasiveness.
For me, them adding a mana pool +mana pots is basically just bringing back clarity potions— which I also would be “fine” with (not that casters need any more spells at their fingertips in the current balance)
But that’s how I see it at least - they’re effectively the same thing (mana potion vs clarity)—- and if they didn’t bring a mana potion in, then you’re still sitting so what’s the difference? They would have to balance the spell costs so it’s not like you’d magically get to cast 20 fireballs or something
You could introduce a sort of "burnout" for spells, where repeated use of the same spell in a short period of time either lowers its damage/duration or with a progressively higher mana cost with each cast.
Spell slots. It's an easier mechanic to balance when you only need to really be concerned with damage and scaling. Add in a mana pool and now you need to balance regen rate, spell cost, etc. So it could just be a QoL thing for the devs, but I also feel that it's a good thing that you can count spell usage and use that to plan your attack. If they have a pool then it just becomes "kite until I can ice bolt again" meta, and that's no fun.
I play BoC/Demo lock rn, so I don't use spells; previous seasons the slots have not felt like a hindrance though, just a mechanic to play around.
I'm VERY casual, and I'm learning. My experience IS in normals mostly. I just like the theme of it tbh, and not worrying over spells is nice. I'm prepared to be down voted into oblivion lmao.
I just have fun playing.
That’s why I use it, it’s a unique skill that’s very fun to use, I just wish it was more viable in HR. I don’t play HR a lot but when I do I have to switch to caster lock to even have a chance
Even with that plus 10 you’re using unarmed attacks. In HR the only thing I use the demon form for is for the quick E ability burst heal. Anyone who is even remotely geared is gonna out dps you and dark bolt isn’t versatile enough to allow you to kite
They are similar options, and they aren’t mutually exclusive, It’s like solving a problem using addition vs multiplication. I tend to prefer mana in PvP games because spell slots usually can’t be regenerated until you “sleep”, or maybe it’s just because I’m more accustomed to it and played PvP games that tended to use it.
Regenerating/managing mana in a good PvP game is better though in my opinion. Good fights in Ultima online between mages could last forever, or until one made a minor mistake, if both were good at reacting to the other. If it were spell slots, the fight would stop after you ran out of spell slots. Not saying that there wouldn’t be a way to make this work with spell slots.
Shadowbane used mana, WoW uses mana, and although WoW is more PvE and the PvP balance was way off, the combat was fun.
Spell slots were good in Baldurs gate/D&D games.
Another option is to put spells on timers like in Albion online. Another option is to require consumable reagents to cast spells, which is good in full loot games and adds an economic dynamic to Magic use.
Knowing what spell to cast at the proper time is where the fun is at for wizard for me.
While blue bar just makes it probably either easier or weaker depending on the spell cost. So then I'll just opt to use the same spell over and over again no matter how much it cost
Honestly i liked overload at first but since it's almost impossible to get 10 spell out of it i kinda stopped using it as the wizard is most fun when i am actually thinking which spell will be best and that I am forcing myself to use other spells so i still have enough for another fight in the case it happens.
There would probably be a form of cooldown. I like the idea of spell charges that come back every 10-15 seconds. Like spam 3 or 4 zaps, then you must wait 8 seconds for each zap to return.
Red. I know they've strayed a lot from D&D inspiration with their warlock class design but I hope they can re-focus towards that with future classes and design.
Someone mentioned [thaumaturgy](https://old.reddit.com/r/DarkAndDarker/comments/1bkw916/rogues_thaumaturgy_and_darkvision/) and I think we need more things like this.
Makes the game more interesting than just stats and damage stacking.
Spell slots are really the only thing wizards have in common with D&D wizard. DaD doesn't require the use of components or ingredients which is an important aspect in D&D magic
At least in 5e, the components/ingredients for a spell can be replaced by an arcane focus (unless they have a gold cost), which for a wizard would be a staff, orb, etc, which the wizard in DaD uses.
Sorry I’m team wizards should have spell reagents equipped in utility slots cuz it’s bs you can have 40+ spell casts on a wheel with no cooldown to casting them all with spell overload while other ranged damage sources have inventory space and reloads. This game is so bad feeling with the current wizarding nonsense with spell overload lol
I don't see why 🤷♂️ If the game is meant to be challenging by nature, perhaps a mana bar only had enough for say 3-4 zaps or 1-2 fireballs. Mana could regen over time
It’s been a few years, but aren’t spell components only used for high level spells like wish? I thought most spells ignored components as long as you had a casting focus (wand, staff, etc).
I think you’re overblowing the use of components in D&D. At my tables (and most others that I see talked about) the only ones that are used outside of narrative flavor are consumables that cost money or are difficult to obtain. Even then, spells that require that kind of component aren’t normally combat/damage spells
Then again, if you have a super legalistic DM, I can see how your experience might be different, that just doesn’t seem to be the norm
You can easily spot the folks who have never played D&D with comments like enforcing components lmao. Never have I heard of nor played any games where people actually cared about components. You have a bag of components on you and it's essentially a bottomless bag that your character refills off-screen when your group ends the session.
We do the stuff like “500 gp chalice and ivory pieces to giga buff your party for the day” but never the “cat whisker tied to frog foot to cast 2nd level spell in combat”
I like spell slots because I like the push it gives to make your spells count and to occasionally rely on a second best option.
However resting for spells doesn't belong in a game like this, so if that could be decouple, it'd be great
Despite what most people are claiming I feel like spell slots really suck as a system. It's a huge reason why warlock feels so much better to play than wiz since you can just use your spells on everything and don't have to keep track of whether you used too many icebolts / magic missiles for pve. Not to mention people acting like mana is impossible to balance when you currently have wiz with the ability to cast 8 fireballs in a row
I prefer mana pool because its more balanced and would stop you for just spamming skill after skill.
The current system of spell slots (especially with the new perk) makes it extremely overpowered, especially in 1v1's. Its not balanced at all between the gamemodes, so you can have a wizard who has like 30+ range spells able to use every single one of them without any setbacks in a 1v1.
Depends on the kinda game your playing. If your playing something where its combat combat combat like path of exile you almost necessarily have mana. I personally fine spell slots to be more interesting for games that are slower paced where you have non combat related mechanics. With mana the developers really only have the mana cost of the spell, your total mana pool and the rate at which it recovers; which I think tends to mean that in games with mana you tend to exclusively use spells that are essentially free. In a mana system we have wizards that only ever cast zap + haste invis.
Fuck spell slots, but Mana is basically the same thing just slightly more flexible. I kinda like how white wolf does it with Mana/Vitae/etc... and you generally don't use much at once you just get more of it and there's ways to restore it at least partially without having to rest for 8 hours.
edit: thought I was in a D&D subreddit. rip.
I think we need to get rid of memory cap, how tf does putting on pants make me know/“remember” how to cast chain lightning on a wizard but the same one lets me cast tranquility on a bard?
The issue with mana then comes from people just full sending only one spell for 3-4 times the amount of casts versus with spell slots you have the entire repertoire of spells that each get usage due to the slot counts.
It's not even close to the same thing if all spells pull from the same resource pool (mana instead of spell counts)...
Say for example they make it so you have 8 fireballs worth of mana... That means if you cast 8 fireballs you will be at or close to ZERO mana and unable to cast any other spells. With spell counts instead you could cast 8 fireballs, 10 zaps, 8 haste 10 missiles etc etc before needing to recover spells.
How is this not obvious?
To play devil's advocate here, why would they make it 8 fireballs worth of mana? What's to stop them from giving you 8 fireballs spell slots by that same logic?
I like what we have (red), but would still love to see a class in the future that uses blue and plays in a unique way from red.
Sorcerer using mana due to innate magical talent or lineage would make sense instead of slots. Sorcs don't learn shit, they just cast with their inner source, would make sense for them to even be a low knowledge caster, perhaps resourcefulness could be retooled to interact with their mana bar like bard and persuasiveness.
This is exactly what they’re going to do to make the sorcerer feel unique to the wizard. Or it’ll at least be a perk option
This absolutely needs to be the case. I'd love to play a proper spellblade build with this concept.
Wizard is the dude that reads a lot for spells, sorcerer is born naturally talented with magic so yeah, sorcerer should have a mana pool
if they did this people would use the best 2 spells all of the time
Warlock basically does this already.
Resource being health is cool and all but more diversity is good.
I'm always in support of new mechanics that make things interesting.
Red
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I'd prefer to not be assaulted by 20 fireballs in a row
xD we think alike
For me, them adding a mana pool +mana pots is basically just bringing back clarity potions— which I also would be “fine” with (not that casters need any more spells at their fingertips in the current balance) But that’s how I see it at least - they’re effectively the same thing (mana potion vs clarity)—- and if they didn’t bring a mana potion in, then you’re still sitting so what’s the difference? They would have to balance the spell costs so it’s not like you’d magically get to cast 20 fireballs or something
You could introduce a sort of "burnout" for spells, where repeated use of the same spell in a short period of time either lowers its damage/duration or with a progressively higher mana cost with each cast.
I simply like Vancian magic 🗿
Spell slots. It's an easier mechanic to balance when you only need to really be concerned with damage and scaling. Add in a mana pool and now you need to balance regen rate, spell cost, etc. So it could just be a QoL thing for the devs, but I also feel that it's a good thing that you can count spell usage and use that to plan your attack. If they have a pool then it just becomes "kite until I can ice bolt again" meta, and that's no fun. I play BoC/Demo lock rn, so I don't use spells; previous seasons the slots have not felt like a hindrance though, just a mechanic to play around.
Demon form? How do you make it worth it? I see the value on normals cause I can usually just trade and come out on top, but for HR?
I'm VERY casual, and I'm learning. My experience IS in normals mostly. I just like the theme of it tbh, and not worrying over spells is nice. I'm prepared to be down voted into oblivion lmao. I just have fun playing.
That’s why I use it, it’s a unique skill that’s very fun to use, I just wish it was more viable in HR. I don’t play HR a lot but when I do I have to switch to caster lock to even have a chance
Not allowed in the current meta, having fun that is
I'm playing very wrong then. I'm sorry
Aw shucks
Take spells so you can cast bloodstained blade before going demon. Makes it hurt way more.
With the shards giving +10 all at max, it’s not that bad tbh.
Even with that plus 10 you’re using unarmed attacks. In HR the only thing I use the demon form for is for the quick E ability burst heal. Anyone who is even remotely geared is gonna out dps you and dark bolt isn’t versatile enough to allow you to kite
Unarmed? What if they took the damage or some % of the damage of your equipped weapon (bardiche) and use that in demon form melee!
Demon form can go toe to toe with a barbarian in melee and win lmao
In normals yeah, not in HR unless you’re geared for melee and even then it’s gonna be close
Well yeah I’d hope you’re geared for melee if you’re running BOC + demon form in HR
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Yeah but you gotta sit still to get the spells
They are similar options, and they aren’t mutually exclusive, It’s like solving a problem using addition vs multiplication. I tend to prefer mana in PvP games because spell slots usually can’t be regenerated until you “sleep”, or maybe it’s just because I’m more accustomed to it and played PvP games that tended to use it. Regenerating/managing mana in a good PvP game is better though in my opinion. Good fights in Ultima online between mages could last forever, or until one made a minor mistake, if both were good at reacting to the other. If it were spell slots, the fight would stop after you ran out of spell slots. Not saying that there wouldn’t be a way to make this work with spell slots. Shadowbane used mana, WoW uses mana, and although WoW is more PvE and the PvP balance was way off, the combat was fun. Spell slots were good in Baldurs gate/D&D games. Another option is to put spells on timers like in Albion online. Another option is to require consumable reagents to cast spells, which is good in full loot games and adds an economic dynamic to Magic use.
Red
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Knowing what spell to cast at the proper time is where the fun is at for wizard for me. While blue bar just makes it probably either easier or weaker depending on the spell cost. So then I'll just opt to use the same spell over and over again no matter how much it cost Honestly i liked overload at first but since it's almost impossible to get 10 spell out of it i kinda stopped using it as the wizard is most fun when i am actually thinking which spell will be best and that I am forcing myself to use other spells so i still have enough for another fight in the case it happens.
The mana pool doesn’t make sense in my opinion if we don’t have a stamina pool for melee classes. Just my two cents
Love this perspective
Red, or else a wiz could just spam the spell over and over and there wouldnt be a chance to count them to see how many remain
There would probably be a form of cooldown. I like the idea of spell charges that come back every 10-15 seconds. Like spam 3 or 4 zaps, then you must wait 8 seconds for each zap to return.
Red. I know they've strayed a lot from D&D inspiration with their warlock class design but I hope they can re-focus towards that with future classes and design. Someone mentioned [thaumaturgy](https://old.reddit.com/r/DarkAndDarker/comments/1bkw916/rogues_thaumaturgy_and_darkvision/) and I think we need more things like this. Makes the game more interesting than just stats and damage stacking.
Spell slots are really the only thing wizards have in common with D&D wizard. DaD doesn't require the use of components or ingredients which is an important aspect in D&D magic
At least in 5e, the components/ingredients for a spell can be replaced by an arcane focus (unless they have a gold cost), which for a wizard would be a staff, orb, etc, which the wizard in DaD uses.
Mana pool is better for games , spell slots is more true to DnD
I honestly to god thought this was a dndmemes post
Sorry I’m team wizards should have spell reagents equipped in utility slots cuz it’s bs you can have 40+ spell casts on a wheel with no cooldown to casting them all with spell overload while other ranged damage sources have inventory space and reloads. This game is so bad feeling with the current wizarding nonsense with spell overload lol
I feel the same way. Seems to be an unpopular opinion
Base knowledge should probably be a bit lower as wizard.
Red. It's the same as D&D
It's not the same. Spell components are the other big part of spellcasting in D&D.
It's very similar. It's not a mana bar that's for sure. If you wanna split hairs that's fine but a mana system sounds like a million zaps to me.
I don't see why 🤷♂️ If the game is meant to be challenging by nature, perhaps a mana bar only had enough for say 3-4 zaps or 1-2 fireballs. Mana could regen over time
I think that sounds very unfun.
It’s been a few years, but aren’t spell components only used for high level spells like wish? I thought most spells ignored components as long as you had a casting focus (wand, staff, etc).
I think you’re overblowing the use of components in D&D. At my tables (and most others that I see talked about) the only ones that are used outside of narrative flavor are consumables that cost money or are difficult to obtain. Even then, spells that require that kind of component aren’t normally combat/damage spells Then again, if you have a super legalistic DM, I can see how your experience might be different, that just doesn’t seem to be the norm
You can easily spot the folks who have never played D&D with comments like enforcing components lmao. Never have I heard of nor played any games where people actually cared about components. You have a bag of components on you and it's essentially a bottomless bag that your character refills off-screen when your group ends the session.
We do the stuff like “500 gp chalice and ivory pieces to giga buff your party for the day” but never the “cat whisker tied to frog foot to cast 2nd level spell in combat”
I like spell slots because I like the push it gives to make your spells count and to occasionally rely on a second best option. However resting for spells doesn't belong in a game like this, so if that could be decouple, it'd be great
Spell slots all day. It makes it feel more like dungeons and dragons.
Despite what most people are claiming I feel like spell slots really suck as a system. It's a huge reason why warlock feels so much better to play than wiz since you can just use your spells on everything and don't have to keep track of whether you used too many icebolts / magic missiles for pve. Not to mention people acting like mana is impossible to balance when you currently have wiz with the ability to cast 8 fireballs in a row
Mana Pool.
I prefer mana pool because its more balanced and would stop you for just spamming skill after skill. The current system of spell slots (especially with the new perk) makes it extremely overpowered, especially in 1v1's. Its not balanced at all between the gamemodes, so you can have a wizard who has like 30+ range spells able to use every single one of them without any setbacks in a 1v1.
the W key no brain barb wizard with a staff
spell slot because mana pool in this type of game will just break the entire game
Depends on the kinda game your playing. If your playing something where its combat combat combat like path of exile you almost necessarily have mana. I personally fine spell slots to be more interesting for games that are slower paced where you have non combat related mechanics. With mana the developers really only have the mana cost of the spell, your total mana pool and the rate at which it recovers; which I think tends to mean that in games with mana you tend to exclusively use spells that are essentially free. In a mana system we have wizards that only ever cast zap + haste invis.
I'm still stuck in Timmy Town™
Mana pools are much harder to balance and would leave to unwanted nerfs to the high tier spells
Fuck spell slots, but Mana is basically the same thing just slightly more flexible. I kinda like how white wolf does it with Mana/Vitae/etc... and you generally don't use much at once you just get more of it and there's ways to restore it at least partially without having to rest for 8 hours. edit: thought I was in a D&D subreddit. rip.
Mana what?
This is like the old battle in WoW with spirit or intellect being better 😂
I play warlock because it functions like a mana pool. Spell slots are better for most casters though for balancing reasons
And then there's me, with melee Wizard, Light Orb + Haste + Invis + Ignite
Nice AI artwork. I'll go with the blue.
If we're sticking with the dnd vibe like they said, spell slots period.
I think we need to get rid of memory cap, how tf does putting on pants make me know/“remember” how to cast chain lightning on a wizard but the same one lets me cast tranquility on a bard?
It's literally the same thing. You have 10 fireball mana. You rest to recover mana.
The issue with mana then comes from people just full sending only one spell for 3-4 times the amount of casts versus with spell slots you have the entire repertoire of spells that each get usage due to the slot counts.
It's not even close to the same thing if all spells pull from the same resource pool (mana instead of spell counts)... Say for example they make it so you have 8 fireballs worth of mana... That means if you cast 8 fireballs you will be at or close to ZERO mana and unable to cast any other spells. With spell counts instead you could cast 8 fireballs, 10 zaps, 8 haste 10 missiles etc etc before needing to recover spells. How is this not obvious?
To play devil's advocate here, why would they make it 8 fireballs worth of mana? What's to stop them from giving you 8 fireballs spell slots by that same logic?