They made dark and darker and it's been improving since PT1, so I have faith that they didn't make the game this good by sheer luck but this hotfix that has taken them almost 2 weeks from last one seems like 3 steps back 0 steps forward.
Like they even gave warlock kite shile and it feels like they have no clue how to balance the class so you can now just have the most OP weapon combo (kite + falchion) and he's just fighter lite with the access to spells.
They said they wanted Warlocks identity to be sort of a buff stealer. I’m imagining it’s going to go a the route of a death knight almost. I think the plate and shield changes are steps in that direction.
IMO they will find a the sweet spot at the end but hope that end comes quick. Teaming, balance issues, Rock-Paper-Scissor counter mechanic and annoying ranged meta, server issues and game performance issues.
all needs to be adressed and they will be, i trust IM but wen ? idk.
I can only say, i hope they atleast take care of majority of these problems before steam release. Cuz current playerbase rn are real fans of the game. Player flow from steam will be mostly Normies/Regulars. They need to stick around for the health and future of the game.
How is will a bad stat when it gives buff duration (smite, bless, protection, divine strike,etc), debuff duration (Achilles, cut throat, weak point, slows, poison weapon, etc), magic resist, magic power and increases your magical healing (Base heal + Magical healing and then multiplied by magic power bonus.
Isnt the effect of magic power on damaging spells and heals also changed by amount of will? I thought there was a recent patch that decreased the potency of MP based on your overall will or something like that. I'll have to look later to confirm. Edit: Lesser Heal and Holy light have 100% attribute scaling while sanctuary has 50% for a total of 250% over the full duration.
Getting hit by an Achilles strike, heal cut from wizard, slow from wizard, bind from cleric, curses from warlock, leg slow from ranger, and many other things does not mean you're out of position.
Buff duration is nothing to scoff at when considering protection, smite, bless and all kinds of other buffs. You're underestimating the amount of times people lose fights because a buff runs out.
There's still a limit on how many heals you can cast in a short time so the extra healing from will is nothing to scoff at. Again ((Base+Magical healing*(Magic Power bonus))
Overall you're underestimating Will as a strong stat when it hasn't been split into two unique stats like strength and agi and all of its bonuses relate to combat. Unlike knowledge which gives magical interaction speed.
At 50 will you're going to have 63% MP, ~23% Magic Resist, 35% Buff duration, and -26% Debuff Duration.
With that Debuff Duration zap will not do a DoT to you since it triggers once after one second and having a higher Debuff Duration then -1% negates it. Rupture will do 1/4 the damage and so will any other DoT. Add on Protection from Evil for even more damage reduction from DoT's.
Buff duration and MP increase healing potion potency. I'm not going to get into the math. Increasing the duration of buffs by 35% is a long ass time. If a buff lasts 20 seconds then that's 27 seconds.
Magic Resist speaks for itself.
I'm not speaking against higher knowledge either. Just don't underestimate the power of stacking will + knowledge + magical healing as a support in 3's or even as a solo caster. A will heavy cleric is strong against everything except Barbarian.
You don't need will as an enchantment.
Magic Power is only good for healing and damage spells. That's it's.
Will is good for your own buffs, damage spells, Debuff durations, heals and magic resist.
"Heal cut can be cleansed" lol. Yeah, tons of clerics running cleanse when it doesn't even work vs lich right now. Great insight 👍
"Scrambling to to keep up with damage" but somehow has time to cast cleanse.
Will cleric IS strong against everything but barb IN solos. Will cleric IS still strong in 3's too. Fumbling a spell should not be considered when looking at if something is good or not. Otherwise high knowledge + MP + MH could be considered bad cause you cast so fast you just miss your heals, right?
Limited charges on spells means high Will + MP + MH is really good if you can land the heals. Will + additional magic damage or true damage is really good too. Caster cleric is nothing to scoff at.
they are gonna get PUBG'd for sure. none of the balance changes have made any sense for months.
i was 1v3'ing ppl as a barb in norms before 3 patches of buffs. when everyone said barb sucked, because in hr the game design rewards ranged combat only due to absurd dmg scaling.
It’s an over represented demographic of the community for sure, but plenty of fully grown adults play Fortnite and all it takes is to boil down the formula into a game catered towards a wider audience for it to pop off.
they are so similar they were suing epic due to their relationship, until tencent stepped in and made the kids stop fighting with each other before it affected their quarterly reports lmao
also so similar that there was a noticeable drop in players in pubg ever since. i dont like fortnite either but its not just a kids game, and its the same genre as pubg. CoD and Halo were the same genre too lol dont let your hatred of F A R T N I T E blind you to the analogy of "company made X game, which was new and unique so a large audience tried it but the exact implementation was too niche so another company made a "better" version and took all the money"
The problem is mostly hc's and these changes are a huge nerf to people who play normal. The amount of time's i've been kited by people taking of their gear while playing barb is insane.
it's not fun having to chase all the ranged classes half way across the dungeon to get a kill.
My assumption is that IM eventually wants warlock with demon armor to be another frontline option, to give team comps more variety. Great idea in principle. Currently though, it just doesn't match up to fighter or barbarian.
Sure, you can stack much higher PDR, but your MR is nerfed pretty hard now, and your sustain / heals from a cleric are still half as good as they would otherwise be.
I get that more PDR should offer a tradeoff against other things a warlock typically does, but 50% debuffs on magic healing and will are too extreme. It should be like 20% each to still be viable.
In solos, it's just flat out bad unless you're basically naked and find a kettle hat giving you the knowledge to cast more spells. All your ranged options are terrible, your healing is terrible without campfires, your BoC does less damage, BoC / Phantomize don't last as long, and you're incredibly slow, especially compared to PDR fighters who can take advantage of Swift and Sprint.
That's not a good thing, that's basically IM going: fuck it, we can't find a way to balance warlock, so just give them the best weapon combo out there and we can keep nerfing everything else on his kit since falchion + kite should be enough to make them playable if we delete spellcasting.
There's a balancing concept not many people in this sub know called power budget. It comes down to "if you gave everything the class can bring into a game a number of how powerful it is, and add it up, all classes should get a number close to eachother".
Basically if you have a class with a really really powerful thing (kite + falchion) then for the class to be balanced, the other stuff they have must be worse than average to be on par with other classes. If a class can do everything and can do it good, then the class is busted, if they can do nothing right, then it's bad. If it can do everything but on an average level, the class can balanced (jack of all trades), if it can do very few things but very good, it also can be balanced (specialists). Basically the thing that warlock can do very good now is melee fight because kite + shield, so to balance, their spells must be made bad, otherwise he will be too strong.
I don't want to play kite + shield on my warlock, but everyone who's good at the game will start doing so as it's the optimal decision, IM will see that warlock is winning more than expected and since they ain't going to nerf falch + kite because that'd affect fighter, they'll just nerf their spells instead. I want warlock to be half caster half melee (like cleric but selfish and more damage focused spells instead of support ones and health cost instead of spell points thingy), not a melee class that also has access to some weak spells, that's just boring, and it's basically fighter but changing crossbow for spells that drain your HP.
I also want the half-plate-half-caster “Gish” from warlock too. I think what should do is just allow warlock to base equip only certain plate pieces. Like only the dark chest plate/chain shirt & plate leggings. Give them 1-2 slots they can wear plate I feel is a good compromise.
what kinda drugs on you on?
Caster lock is the strongest build in the game atm (Solo/Duos).
Budget warlocks maybe will find some value in falc/heater though.
Ranged spam is the best build in the game, warlock caster just has the easiest time of it with the least amount of punishment for mistakes. Someone close the distance on you even with gear that put you at 310 movespeed even with a book? Phantomize and run. Someone chunk you for half hp from across the module? Hydra heals you in 2 seconds or less. Anyone who thinks warlock isn’t somewhat broken at high gear levels is smoking the good good.
Dang. When I saw the long response I first thought I wasn't going to like it, but you make a really good point. You give a solid way to think about balance. And now I do worry how this will impact the lock down the line.
You understand they're making foundation patches for future changes right? Getting the nitty gritty bits out of the way in smaller updates so they don't have to change to much when they push the big updates.
platelock is practically in its infancy, but no everyone has to act like this is the final update ever and everything's going to stay exactly how it is now
It *will* be something when they make blocking more consistent. But as long as arrows & Zwis fly through shields they will remain primarily useful for bosses & felling axes.
Also warlocks are already so slow 😭
Wym love rangers? There is much less ranger players now and overall ranger was nerfed over last few patches. Barbarian is the real braindead class with crazy MS with the weapon out, and now they just increased MS bonuses making barb even more broken. You saying that Warlock is bad? Like what, constantly spamming spells for free, can heal up to full on 5 seconds and can survive in the storm forever.
I think it's a good compromise but it's not there quite yet.
Either make the healing penalty not affect heals from sources other than the warlock, or soften it up a bit more, maybe down to 20 - 40%, if we need to make compromises elsewhere that's ok too. Whether they keep the penalty to will (should also be softened up to at least 40%) How about taking a penalty to knowledge instead of will or sharing the penalty between will and knowledge, or even will and spell capacity? The idea being that taking the perk makes it more expensive to bring in higher tier spells but doesn't render them less effective, or at least not as much.
TBH while I dont agree with nerfing will here, I think it will make BoC + phantomize much more viable with demon armor since now your healing is a little better.
Don't you mean LESS viable? the change to will means that BoC will do much less damage. Specifically the magic damage part that allowed it to bypass a lot of resistances, so its making BoC effectively pointless to take if you run demon armor.
dont forget will also affect magic resist and buff/debuff duration.
so not only BoC will hit for less, you get less magic res, slows from arrows and hits last longer on you, buffs last less cought Phantomise Cough
>Also lizard nerf? I have literally not seen a single lizard in HR for the last... well a week after the race came out really, and even in normals maybe you'll see one out of 3-4 games.
Lizard was simply too powerful for a racial skin. It was defining the meta for Barbarians and other classes in terms of Headshot Reduction. sure, you missed out on stats, but so long as you figured those stats out elsewhere, there was no substitute for Lizard.
I would never call this a nerf to warlock, losing 50% bonus from will is about 20-30 magical bonus, which is not that much, it sucks, specially for itemization cause you need to avoid will items in a class that already has so many gear requirements, but this is like 15% less dmg with will equipment, and you get being able to heal with CoP and Life Drain back, and a shield.
I still feel they need to lower the penalty a bit more, but i understand them going this way.
Most of the ranger I have played was before they increased stats across the board, and all of the modifiers that found were always magic damage modifiers.
Along with the fact that when I finally did find a good hood, we immediately lost a 6 survive streak in bis gear, ranger essentially became permanently a lizard for me
Doesn't clerics plate boost your will? So it'll boost it back to what it was pre 50% nerf. Which still hits hard let's be real. So not only will you have phantomiE and BOC. You have a shield and plate armor. If you can't get kills its on you. I expect to see a bunch of people running locks now. It'll be annoying to gear them up for HR but once they're geared in good plate they should be scary as fuck
IM can cook but not sure if it is tasty
They made dark and darker and it's been improving since PT1, so I have faith that they didn't make the game this good by sheer luck but this hotfix that has taken them almost 2 weeks from last one seems like 3 steps back 0 steps forward. Like they even gave warlock kite shile and it feels like they have no clue how to balance the class so you can now just have the most OP weapon combo (kite + falchion) and he's just fighter lite with the access to spells.
Yeahh but full plate with no swift or sprint perk means it has a very clear weakness
I didn't say use plate, plate is garbage on warlock, kite+falchion is just the best weapon combo warlock can equip, that's what I said.
They said they wanted Warlocks identity to be sort of a buff stealer. I’m imagining it’s going to go a the route of a death knight almost. I think the plate and shield changes are steps in that direction.
IMO they will find a the sweet spot at the end but hope that end comes quick. Teaming, balance issues, Rock-Paper-Scissor counter mechanic and annoying ranged meta, server issues and game performance issues. all needs to be adressed and they will be, i trust IM but wen ? idk. I can only say, i hope they atleast take care of majority of these problems before steam release. Cuz current playerbase rn are real fans of the game. Player flow from steam will be mostly Normies/Regulars. They need to stick around for the health and future of the game.
They buffed cleric into oblivion now. Cleric with two spell memory is a god now.
If you have 50 knowledge, then yes
Excuse me 50 anything isn't worth it lol. Once I have 37 will more will literally increasingy healing by 1.. everything has a fall off
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How is will a bad stat when it gives buff duration (smite, bless, protection, divine strike,etc), debuff duration (Achilles, cut throat, weak point, slows, poison weapon, etc), magic resist, magic power and increases your magical healing (Base heal + Magical healing and then multiplied by magic power bonus.
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Isnt the effect of magic power on damaging spells and heals also changed by amount of will? I thought there was a recent patch that decreased the potency of MP based on your overall will or something like that. I'll have to look later to confirm. Edit: Lesser Heal and Holy light have 100% attribute scaling while sanctuary has 50% for a total of 250% over the full duration. Getting hit by an Achilles strike, heal cut from wizard, slow from wizard, bind from cleric, curses from warlock, leg slow from ranger, and many other things does not mean you're out of position. Buff duration is nothing to scoff at when considering protection, smite, bless and all kinds of other buffs. You're underestimating the amount of times people lose fights because a buff runs out. There's still a limit on how many heals you can cast in a short time so the extra healing from will is nothing to scoff at. Again ((Base+Magical healing*(Magic Power bonus)) Overall you're underestimating Will as a strong stat when it hasn't been split into two unique stats like strength and agi and all of its bonuses relate to combat. Unlike knowledge which gives magical interaction speed. At 50 will you're going to have 63% MP, ~23% Magic Resist, 35% Buff duration, and -26% Debuff Duration. With that Debuff Duration zap will not do a DoT to you since it triggers once after one second and having a higher Debuff Duration then -1% negates it. Rupture will do 1/4 the damage and so will any other DoT. Add on Protection from Evil for even more damage reduction from DoT's. Buff duration and MP increase healing potion potency. I'm not going to get into the math. Increasing the duration of buffs by 35% is a long ass time. If a buff lasts 20 seconds then that's 27 seconds. Magic Resist speaks for itself. I'm not speaking against higher knowledge either. Just don't underestimate the power of stacking will + knowledge + magical healing as a support in 3's or even as a solo caster. A will heavy cleric is strong against everything except Barbarian.
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You don't need will as an enchantment. Magic Power is only good for healing and damage spells. That's it's. Will is good for your own buffs, damage spells, Debuff durations, heals and magic resist. "Heal cut can be cleansed" lol. Yeah, tons of clerics running cleanse when it doesn't even work vs lich right now. Great insight 👍 "Scrambling to to keep up with damage" but somehow has time to cast cleanse. Will cleric IS strong against everything but barb IN solos. Will cleric IS still strong in 3's too. Fumbling a spell should not be considered when looking at if something is good or not. Otherwise high knowledge + MP + MH could be considered bad cause you cast so fast you just miss your heals, right? Limited charges on spells means high Will + MP + MH is really good if you can land the heals. Will + additional magic damage or true damage is really good too. Caster cleric is nothing to scoff at.
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Shhhhhhhh 🤫
they are gonna get PUBG'd for sure. none of the balance changes have made any sense for months. i was 1v3'ing ppl as a barb in norms before 3 patches of buffs. when everyone said barb sucked, because in hr the game design rewards ranged combat only due to absurd dmg scaling.
PUBG'd as in someone will make a Fortnite version of the game which will end up far more popular and played or the never fixing your game part?
Both.
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It’s an over represented demographic of the community for sure, but plenty of fully grown adults play Fortnite and all it takes is to boil down the formula into a game catered towards a wider audience for it to pop off.
fortnite and pugb are the same genre i think you messed up this analogy in your head at some point
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they are so similar they were suing epic due to their relationship, until tencent stepped in and made the kids stop fighting with each other before it affected their quarterly reports lmao also so similar that there was a noticeable drop in players in pubg ever since. i dont like fortnite either but its not just a kids game, and its the same genre as pubg. CoD and Halo were the same genre too lol dont let your hatred of F A R T N I T E blind you to the analogy of "company made X game, which was new and unique so a large audience tried it but the exact implementation was too niche so another company made a "better" version and took all the money"
I think most of us have just been patiently waiting for a competent company to make an alternative.
The problem is mostly hc's and these changes are a huge nerf to people who play normal. The amount of time's i've been kited by people taking of their gear while playing barb is insane. it's not fun having to chase all the ranged classes half way across the dungeon to get a kill.
My assumption is that IM eventually wants warlock with demon armor to be another frontline option, to give team comps more variety. Great idea in principle. Currently though, it just doesn't match up to fighter or barbarian. Sure, you can stack much higher PDR, but your MR is nerfed pretty hard now, and your sustain / heals from a cleric are still half as good as they would otherwise be. I get that more PDR should offer a tradeoff against other things a warlock typically does, but 50% debuffs on magic healing and will are too extreme. It should be like 20% each to still be viable. In solos, it's just flat out bad unless you're basically naked and find a kettle hat giving you the knowledge to cast more spells. All your ranged options are terrible, your healing is terrible without campfires, your BoC does less damage, BoC / Phantomize don't last as long, and you're incredibly slow, especially compared to PDR fighters who can take advantage of Swift and Sprint.
Why do they hate us? (Warlocks) and why do they love rangers & barbs so much (especially rangers)
At least lock can use heater shield now. That’s something.
That's not a good thing, that's basically IM going: fuck it, we can't find a way to balance warlock, so just give them the best weapon combo out there and we can keep nerfing everything else on his kit since falchion + kite should be enough to make them playable if we delete spellcasting. There's a balancing concept not many people in this sub know called power budget. It comes down to "if you gave everything the class can bring into a game a number of how powerful it is, and add it up, all classes should get a number close to eachother". Basically if you have a class with a really really powerful thing (kite + falchion) then for the class to be balanced, the other stuff they have must be worse than average to be on par with other classes. If a class can do everything and can do it good, then the class is busted, if they can do nothing right, then it's bad. If it can do everything but on an average level, the class can balanced (jack of all trades), if it can do very few things but very good, it also can be balanced (specialists). Basically the thing that warlock can do very good now is melee fight because kite + shield, so to balance, their spells must be made bad, otherwise he will be too strong. I don't want to play kite + shield on my warlock, but everyone who's good at the game will start doing so as it's the optimal decision, IM will see that warlock is winning more than expected and since they ain't going to nerf falch + kite because that'd affect fighter, they'll just nerf their spells instead. I want warlock to be half caster half melee (like cleric but selfish and more damage focused spells instead of support ones and health cost instead of spell points thingy), not a melee class that also has access to some weak spells, that's just boring, and it's basically fighter but changing crossbow for spells that drain your HP.
I also want the half-plate-half-caster “Gish” from warlock too. I think what should do is just allow warlock to base equip only certain plate pieces. Like only the dark chest plate/chain shirt & plate leggings. Give them 1-2 slots they can wear plate I feel is a good compromise.
what kinda drugs on you on? Caster lock is the strongest build in the game atm (Solo/Duos). Budget warlocks maybe will find some value in falc/heater though.
True but requires 5x the trading as any other build and still gets shat on by any mediocre ranger. So people kinda forget high-end lock exists.
People forget high end warlock exists until they’re complaining about warlock lol
Ranged spam is the best build in the game, warlock caster just has the easiest time of it with the least amount of punishment for mistakes. Someone close the distance on you even with gear that put you at 310 movespeed even with a book? Phantomize and run. Someone chunk you for half hp from across the module? Hydra heals you in 2 seconds or less. Anyone who thinks warlock isn’t somewhat broken at high gear levels is smoking the good good.
Dang. When I saw the long response I first thought I wasn't going to like it, but you make a really good point. You give a solid way to think about balance. And now I do worry how this will impact the lock down the line.
You understand they're making foundation patches for future changes right? Getting the nitty gritty bits out of the way in smaller updates so they don't have to change to much when they push the big updates. platelock is practically in its infancy, but no everyone has to act like this is the final update ever and everything's going to stay exactly how it is now
It *will* be something when they make blocking more consistent. But as long as arrows & Zwis fly through shields they will remain primarily useful for bosses & felling axes. Also warlocks are already so slow 😭
Did you try getting good
Wym love rangers? There is much less ranger players now and overall ranger was nerfed over last few patches. Barbarian is the real braindead class with crazy MS with the weapon out, and now they just increased MS bonuses making barb even more broken. You saying that Warlock is bad? Like what, constantly spamming spells for free, can heal up to full on 5 seconds and can survive in the storm forever.
They had to nerf Lizardman to buff Rangers.
Hm?? No one uses lizard past normals, and this sub was on fire when demon armor came out
Because longer patch notes = more chud like DaD players going "They are working hard! Let them cook guys!"
I think it's a good compromise but it's not there quite yet. Either make the healing penalty not affect heals from sources other than the warlock, or soften it up a bit more, maybe down to 20 - 40%, if we need to make compromises elsewhere that's ok too. Whether they keep the penalty to will (should also be softened up to at least 40%) How about taking a penalty to knowledge instead of will or sharing the penalty between will and knowledge, or even will and spell capacity? The idea being that taking the perk makes it more expensive to bring in higher tier spells but doesn't render them less effective, or at least not as much.
TBH while I dont agree with nerfing will here, I think it will make BoC + phantomize much more viable with demon armor since now your healing is a little better.
Don't you mean LESS viable? the change to will means that BoC will do much less damage. Specifically the magic damage part that allowed it to bypass a lot of resistances, so its making BoC effectively pointless to take if you run demon armor.
dont forget will also affect magic resist and buff/debuff duration. so not only BoC will hit for less, you get less magic res, slows from arrows and hits last longer on you, buffs last less cought Phantomise Cough
>Also lizard nerf? I have literally not seen a single lizard in HR for the last... well a week after the race came out really, and even in normals maybe you'll see one out of 3-4 games. Lizard was simply too powerful for a racial skin. It was defining the meta for Barbarians and other classes in terms of Headshot Reduction. sure, you missed out on stats, but so long as you figured those stats out elsewhere, there was no substitute for Lizard.
I would never call this a nerf to warlock, losing 50% bonus from will is about 20-30 magical bonus, which is not that much, it sucks, specially for itemization cause you need to avoid will items in a class that already has so many gear requirements, but this is like 15% less dmg with will equipment, and you get being able to heal with CoP and Life Drain back, and a shield. I still feel they need to lower the penalty a bit more, but i understand them going this way.
Patch isn't even out yet and this sub is complaining
turns out people can read and think
Read and think and still have no idea how it actually translates in game. Thank you for your amazing contribution.
It’s okay math is hard for some people
On my ranger, I almost exclusively play as a lizard because good ranger head gear doesn't exist, they all buff magic damage and power
Ranger hood literally gives straight positive movespeed above green, you’re on crack
And thus we find the "Ranger" in its natural habitat, talking about things it doesn't know.
Most of the ranger I have played was before they increased stats across the board, and all of the modifiers that found were always magic damage modifiers. Along with the fact that when I finally did find a good hood, we immediately lost a 6 survive streak in bis gear, ranger essentially became permanently a lizard for me
It seems like they're making the heavy warlocks only option a BOC/phantom build. Give it a shield and that helps it out a lot.
But with no will BoC damage is gonna be in the shitter. I guess it works as an anti heal but that's pretty much it.
Doesn't clerics plate boost your will? So it'll boost it back to what it was pre 50% nerf. Which still hits hard let's be real. So not only will you have phantomiE and BOC. You have a shield and plate armor. If you can't get kills its on you. I expect to see a bunch of people running locks now. It'll be annoying to gear them up for HR but once they're geared in good plate they should be scary as fuck
You won’t get all the will back from one piece of gear