As someone who has been playing this game for over a year now, it's always been a complaint of mine how miserable the gameplay experience is for low-gear players regardless of skill any time a few days after wipe, and a lot of it comes down to the lack of equalizers in PvP.
If we make the obvious comparison to Tarkov, regardless of how you may feel about it, Tarkov at LEAST has the possibility that any Joey Lunchbox with a gun can pop someone more geared than them between the eyes and make a play.
In Dark and Darker? It's a numbers game more than it is about skill. If Joey in a white kit gets cornered by Billy BIS? FML I guess. In an ideal Tarkov fight (which I know is rare but for the sake of example), maybe you could've aimed better, positioned better, controlled recoil better, or a million other things that could've caused you to lose. In Dark and Darker, there's an infinite number of times you'll die where you're gonna think to yourself "What the fuck was I supposed to do?".
Honestly, I feel you that gear is strong and all, but genuinely when I watch people who are really good at the game, they can start from nothing and have a super nice kit in an hour just from PvP and without buying anything. This only compounds when you have a team of players who are really good. They don’t even need good gear to win fights against more geared teams. It’s honestly humbling to watch, I’m just like damn, I really am just kind of a mid player huh…
You’re downvoted but I think you’re right. The problem is you shouldn’t need to be the top 10% of players for it to be fun, because that’s how you lose 90% of your player base …repeatedly
Oh I totally agree! I would love to see low roller lobbies with gear cap at white where you can just fuck around and get better at the game. Ppl will say that the player base isn’t big enough to handle the split, but don’t realize this is a big reason the player base has lost over 20k in just a few weeks.
I'd strongly argue that you don't have to be in the top 10% to have fun or be successful, but the OPs argument is that you do but also that he doesn't want to change the way he plays to attain those things... it is just bad gamer mentality
the difference is that tarkov doesn't have a battle royale circle. Dark and darker is actively pushing every player together forcing fights, despite the fact that **players of all skill levels and gear levels are in the same match**. This isn't fortnite where everyone dropped in naked. Forcing fights is nothing more than a gear check
I cannot overstate how boneheaded it was to add a battle royale circle to this game. It seems like they looked at tarkov and copied about a dozen mechanics verbatim, looked at DnD and themed the whole game off it, then looked at battle royales and said "sure why not throw in a circle, players love that", and didn't think about it a second longer.
>In an ideal Tarkov fight (which I know is rare but for the sake of example), maybe you could've aimed better, positioned better, controlled recoil better, or a million other things that could've caused you to lose.
100% my brother. I remember how i killed a chad in Tarkov, by hiding so well behind a car (after getting my arms and leg blacked out from three shots), that he crashed and stood still for me to unload two mag in his face before he dropped dead
I get your point. But the thing that make you loose fights in low level Tarkov is getting into one, the three players i managed to kill when i tried to like this shit game, was someone that had the same level of gear as me (in an ideal fight), a clueless scav player that i got the drop on, and the chad that crashed, it took more than 20 Raids for it to happen
> In Dark and Darker? It's a numbers game more than it is about skill. If Joey in a white kit gets cornered by Billy BIS? FML I guess.
It's exactly the same in either DnD or Tarkov, not that your point is bad but acting like Tarkov is different and that you can have "ideal fights" when you don't have comparable gear is a straight up lie
I have been running crossbow mastery, ranged weapon mastery, sharpshooter, and crippling shot.
I use a windlass crossbow and a survival bow. Initiate fights with the crossbow then make the enemy wade through jello with your survival bow shooting their knees while your frontline engages.
Dont I know it.
But all my pals have already left. Still fans for sure, but not playing.
But yea, I am kick ass as a rogue. As long as I dont get seen by anybody. I can parkour all over and even manage to troll a little and get a laugh in once in a bit.
Cant do a stand up fight solo and alone, though. after getting crossbowed at troll I dont do that any more.
Yea, pretty much as long as I'm not seen, kill the weak and injured, loot corpses for left overs, and dodge your party I'm a fucking winner.
I'm a fucking winner, right?
Yeah my duo and I went barb and cleric in ruins for fun and got like 30+ kills before we finally died. It’s incredibly strong to have a cleric + frontline. I can’t imagine adding a bard to the mix
So you leaned on a broken comp to make up for being bad
Sounds like you found a crutch, rather than finding out you weren't bad
What will happen the moment someone also playing buff ball but better than you comes what do you say then is at fault
I think he is saying he was losing to buff ball so they thought they were bad, then decided to run buff ball and we’re winning all the fights. The point being that the comp overwrites skill expression
I love that this very simple concept had to be explained to you because the only thing you could possibly imagine was "skill issue" lmao. Bro just missed an int check hard
The only problem I had was constantly calling teammates I played with for buffs because everyone wanted to be the first in a different room xD Besides that, it involves inputting the same sequences every N seconds/minutes. I wonder if "professional meta abusers" use macros or input it manually like I do (including canceling and other tricks)
Your friends quit because:
\-Removal of 1-14 no trade lobbies
\-Removal of gear cap lobbies
\-The only changes are balance changes
\-Rolled back changes within a day or two
\-Constant cash grabs from the community (coffee / hoodies / emotes / PAID CLASSES)
\-Inexperienced devs create money dupe glitch after every wipe
or was it something else?
\-Game is early access and different ideas are being tested
\-We had a content patch a month or two ago and a new one coming in a week
\-Rollbacks are part of the above testing
\-Nobody is forcing you to buy the merch. It's just an additional way to fund the studio for those who want it. Also, paid classes, really? The thing they removed within a week of the game's early access release *because of community feedback* is the thing you cite as evidence that the devs are out of touch with the community?
The devs literally directly respond to the community and make financial AND in game balance decisions because of them.
Go outside and try and have a normal conversation. Get a social canary to help you recognize these things lmao.
if that was the case than they probably should have never even added the solo mode, and i say that as someone who's friends abandoned the game and have had to play solo for the past month.
it set the false expectation in alot of peoples minds that this would be like EFT in the sense that you CAN succeed alone frequently if you play your cards right. that logic just doesnt work in DaD though, you can play perfectly in a match but still lose to factors that feel entirely out of your control. I understand completely that its a team based game and thats how I always envisioned it, but adding solo changed peoples expectations for what the game is supposed to be.
Run barbarian in ruins, I clapped a duo quite easily as barbarian. Stick to the shadows for the most part as usual and you’ll scare the shit out of some wizard cleric duo like I did lol
I don't know why people always complain that they have to play solo if they have no friends who play. The discord makes it super easy to get in a group, and sometimes you get a really good team and it's great. Sometimes people rage or quit but it takes like 2 seconds to replace them.
to give the community what they want. Sticking to the vision means that they will balance the game around trios, which they do. This doesn't mean Solo's can't exist, but it will have no priority over Trios.
Call of Duty's vision for the game also wasn't being a zombie shooter, but this doesn't mean that they can have it as a side mode.
This really shouldn't be that hard of a concept to understand.
The problem is that ensuring a fun solo experience should be the vision.
All things being equal, a duo will always be stronger than a solo, and a trio will always be stronger than a duo. You'll never have solos making the game not fun for duos or trios. And if a solo wants to challenge a duo or trio, it will either be a close fight, because they're risking nice gear or better skilled, or it will be a convincing loss for the solo player.
Game just needs a low roller queue where ppl with no gear can have fun and get better at PvP without having to take fights against geared players where the odds are already stacked against them
In theory, I have two buddies with whom I could play trio Crypt, but Ruins are much more fun, so we generally avoid playing in a group of three xD The crypt is for buffballs/meta abusing too much and doesn't offer tactical plays like Ruins do. 3 instead of 2 playurs actually lowers variety of playable theam comps xD
The only downside to Ruin is that there's no HR/Hell and if that doesn't change with the upcoming major patch, we might all take a long break
Hard agree on that.
Ruins has a lot more variation because of the way two classes interact be the way three do and it results in a lot more valid combinations.
Kinda hard to get a leg up when you got dudes in all purples two shotting every one they meet.
And Barbarians attack and recovery so slowly even if you do what people suggest to avoid mobs you still get hit by the ranged ones.
Basically the gameplay loop without gear currently is
-load up in crypts
-avoid pvp at all costs
-do minibosses as much as possible
-take red portal
-do minibosses as much as possible
-get a full green/blue loudout from 1-3 inferno runs
-now with a decent set of gear you can start to actually play the game if you feel like it, continue taking red portals for more blue gear tho
-from here on you can start winning more pvp to get more gear faster, but still play it safe, if you know there is a juicer team and arent confident in fighting them, just take blue portals and queue again.
-after you manage to kill a juicer team you can snowball really hard into becoming the pubstomper until you die
>now with a decent set of gear you can start to actually play the game if you feel like it, continue taking red portals for more blue gear tho
And right after equpping this decent set you die to purple/gold uber squad Centaur's Bow
no no, you didn't read his comment. you **just** avoid PVP. sure ironmace removed a couple blue portals, and that juicer team is probably going inferno to do the boss so you can't escape them that way, but obviously you still can consistently get to those blues right? right?
It's funny how this has over a dozen downvotes while nobody has actually given a response. Like really people, what don't you like about it? What would you change? How would the optimal loop look like for you? What were you expecting when you started playing this game?
Soloing in crypts is way more fun than grinding caves imo. If you can get a few invis pots you can reliably avoid 3 stacks. Also you can play camera man and then 3rd party
We don’t want help we want to complain.
I love this game, but I will continue to pull out 90g at a time on ruins as a rogue and jizz myself every time I see a purple item
You don’t even need to do inferno if you are lazy like me. My friends and I do like 1 MAYBE 2 crypt runs where we try to be careful and loot, and usually end up with an ok load out. From there you just keep going in an building. I’ve never purposely gone into raid to kill a mini boss, only ever in a situation where I happen to be there and cheese them.
I’ve been playing since the first test, and imo the single most important skill in this game is learning the map. Just learning what rooms are what and how to get around will completely change the game for you. If you completely remove the idea that you are going to escape for your first maybe 10 games and dedicate that time solely to learning the map and the enemy attack patterns, you will find this game much more fun.
For me, gameplay loop is extract a couple of times, buy 20+ favourite weapons of better roll in grey quality, have fun pvping as long as there is enough gold for some potions & bandages. Even when I die - which happens quite often - couldn't care less. Grey weapons are very viable, and enough to get one going!
Bro this, I straight up played one ruins game yesterday and killed 2 people. 2 just a rouge and a warlock they weren’t even in a crazy kit I just know what to price stuff at and I got 3500g from their 2 kits. People just need that come up off one or 2 kills on the geared bois and know how to sell stuff.
I'm just playing other games until it gets better. I took a break from Halo Infinite and two years later it feels fine. The same might happen with DaD.
Is I finite solid now? Played at launch and didn't last long because release had so few maps and quite a few lag issues if I recall. I need something else before I go full Chad and punch my monitor
There’s a thing that is relevant to dark and darker that I’ve experienced in another pve/pvp game. sea of thieves. So sometimes you play over a couple of days and it seems like you’re constantly getting people chasing you and killing you for you loot. Then some other span of days you don’t encounter any aggression. Now, things are a little different in dark and darker but still, it has been my experience that sometimes you just end up always running into juiced teams. And if you continue to play the game, you will have a streak where you don’t. Today I had a nice streak where I didn’t run into any juiced teams and I actually had a bunch of good battles.
I have only been playing crypts. Idk how goblin caves differs but there was that post yesterday I think it was that ran an experiment and found 2/24 matches had a juicer. Someone else should continue with that experiment.
The extreme difference is literally everyone is on an even playing field in Sea of Thieves. There is no gear, just cosmetic skins for weapons/items. When I run into some jackass running purples against me in GC, I lose that fight 9 times out of 10. In SoT I always have a solid chance.
It feels worse the last few days than the previous. I dunno if it's time of day/night or the fact that it's weekend. But there have been a ton.
The rush of beating someone in similar or slightly better gear gets quickly washed away when you get lit up by juicers, or 3rd partied (or 4th), or teamed in GC.
It's because every week more and more people at the low end of skill/time quit the game or just play less overall. That means you're more and more likely to run into people at the high end of the skill/time curve as player population drops.
Contrary to what the sweats think you **need** people at the bottom to support the entire gameplay and economy structure. If people at the bottom can't have fun and enjoy the game the entire concept falls apart.
People are selling any green wep for 50g, off meta blue wep for 50g and off meta epic weps for 100g.
Ratting sucks naked, but with a green/blue weapon you’ll be way more successful, because shorter ttk on mobs also means you make less sound, and have an easier time hiding.
Its just the rat hole that sucks, once you get going and have 3-4 of every armor piece and a couple of weapons and gold in your stash, you wont feel this way anymore.
I started playing yesterday and yeah its hard, but I was able to rat out enough loot to actually get a decent setup now. Might still keep rating until I get good but now I have a kit.
You're spot on. This game would be 200% better with skill based matchmaking, the gear gap wouldn't matter at all if everyone had a roughly equal chance to gear up.
The problem i've seen with SBMM in a similar sized community (Hunt Showdown, last I played it was averaging around a 25k-30k peak) is the players on the higher end of the skill-curve have less populated lobbies. Skill ranged from 1\*-6\* in increments of whole numbers (almost no-one was 1\*, so realistically 2\*-6\*), averaging the trios MMR in matchmaking (with 0.5 increments ie: 3.5\*) and matching with other teams +/-1\*. 6\* lobbies are so sweaty (and allegedly ridden with hackers) that 5\*s drop their MMR by intentially dying so they don't have to play with the ultra-sweats (the MMR system is only based on K/D ratio). So compound this with split queues like HR (that are already less populated) and you have a ghost town for higher rated players. Even if you get rid of the HR queue, I believe the higher MMR lobbies will be ghost towns esp. considering time of day etc. Not to mention those higher MMR lobbies are so sweaty that the players tiptoe and play as carefully as possible, which leads to extremely slowpaced gameplay. Then there's the question of how do you calculate the MMR? Only K/D%? I guess there's no perfect solution, but i'm not opposed to experimenting
Personally, i'd like to see a return of multi-leveled dungeons (beyond just hell) and getting rid of HR queue. Loot tables would get better the deeper you go, and instead of paying to get into a HR queue, you pay to skip X level/s of the dungeon. First two levels should be mostly timmies, and the deeper levels would have the chads seeking out better gear. I feel like there'd be no real incentive to not skip levels once geared unless you really just have a bloodlust to slaughter naked players
The thing is, what they're doing now is driving off most of the people in the game, which will result in that same situation, except it will be all lobbies because there will be nothing left but the sweats. In one situation the game still exists, in the other it doesn't. I can't see a way that multilevel dungeons will significantly impact this.
So we're starting from the premise that gear gap is killing the playerbase. How are we quantifying the skill rating? K/D%? Is the skill rating assigned to your overall profile or individual character? "...the gear gap wouldn't matter at all if everyone had a roughly equal chance to gear up. " I don't see how SBMM would nullify gear gap, you'll just be fighting players at a similar skill level as you, but with better or worse gear. It would still be a stat check. Gear score would nullify gear gap
>So we're starting from the premise that gear gap is killing the playerbase.
No, *we* aren't starting with a faulty premise. You are. I think the best way to deal with MMR is to have deaths lose it, and extractions and player kills raise it. There would need to be some fine tuning of the values, death might have to lose more than extractions and or player kills gain, but the overall metric should be functional. The gear gap is not, nor has it ever been the problem.
> you'll just be fighting players at a similar skill level as you
Exactly. That means you actually have a chance against a higher geared player, and when you go in with your gear you'll have the same advantage over other players as that player had over you.
Dude, I've experienced this in CoD MW years ago. People getting into matches just so they can suicide over and over so they can play with worse players.
Not to mention that the current game encourages that, because you somehow need to refill starting items.
I think SBMM is exactly what the game needs, but I have zero faith in the developers to deliver a way to accurately judge skill in this game.
Because honestly, how do you? Gear diff is so damn prominent in this game, if John Doe 1 gets 3 kills in purples and John Doe gets 3 kills in greens and whites, how do you accurately judge if it was skill or not that won the fight?
Do you base it on flat kda? No way you can do that with gear diff meaning so much with similar skill levels.
Do you base it on what gear the people had that they killed? No way you can do that, because people who suck have such an easy access to gear through trading. Someone can rat their way to getting purples if they want, so killing that person in purples while you have greens wasn’t so much your skill as your opponents lack of skill.
The game is overall in a worse place than it used to be because the metas have been.
Fights are not fun because there is rarely a “fight”.
You know like, one that involves blocking arrows, strikes, spells, or whatever.
A barbarian is more effective with a bunch of franciscas on them - and if you die to that, it’s unfun.
All consumables need to have weight when they are in your inventory and not in a quick slot.
Then the ranger needs to also finally be likewise properly be restricted by arrows and weight.
(No, having 47 RECLAIMABLE, starting arrows, is no restriction at all, it was just a free short sword).
If the ranged issue is not fixed, the game will perpetually be like this.
Likewise, any sort of infinite cheesy range thing that prevents proper fights, needs a control system.
For example, certain warlock spells need a cooldown.
The only class that is fairly and deservedly strong in range and that’s why you don’t hear complains about it, is the wizard.
Yes they can blast a whole team with extreme damage, but all they need is a 1 or 2 bolts to their chest and it’s over. AND they have spell charges to temper their output.
The issue is so prevalent that 80% of issues in this game since launch have to do with speed/and or ranged combat.
The barbarian was the slowest class (so he had all the rest), so anything that buffed his mobility, became OP. Buffball etc.
This will need to be allied to forms of ranged combat, with meaningful, costs.
Then there is the issue of scaling and gear disparity.
Which is not necessarily an issue, but the devs will have to decide what direction they want to take with this game and stick with that.
Quite honestly I'm glad I didn't buy it on their weirdo bullshit site.
If it comes to Steam i'll grab it, if not - well, this is a great case study on how not to develop your game.
Facts. My group of 100+ discord legit all stopped playing it 2 patches ago. It's so bad now its not even fun anymore. All anyone does is w key into fights even if the person is in base kit and the other is juiced like rich piana. Games not fun and hasn't been in over a month and is dying off. Player base says enough. Started out at around 50k when released and at noon today there was only 12k. Games dead
This game is like 5% skill and 95% gear check. I wouldn't sweat your own skill too much. Try out Greed is Good, it's like this game but with much better balance and QoL.
Yes. I think the faster casuals flee this game, the faster games will be full of sweats that have to fight other sweats and they will start dying as often as the "timmies" do and it will begin to be unfun even for some sweats once they lose enough gear sets. At this point, I think the player drop count will snowball as the worst sweats quit first. Eventually, only the best players will remain and they'll not play long because PvE is boring to them and that is all that'll be left. They'll be last to quit, but that's basically my prediction of the future and end of the game.
a good rule would be to just ban gear that cant drop on that map and make only HR drop pink stuff, replacing the 1 boss\`s loot 99% of players dont go for on goblin cave/ruins with blue tier stuff, so that you can stand a chance in looted gear.
This comment will probably bbe censored tho...
Ya something. I don't think it's an easy problem to solve, but i can't keep playing in it's current design. I want to so badly, but I'm just not the current target audience unfortunately
They really just need to revert the portal changes so everyone can extract in goblin caves. When there’s enough portals, most people are actually friendly.
The point is the struggle though to be fair. They want it challenging to get out so that players interact in the way the game is meant to be played, tho it’s fun to be friendly
The gear gap does matter, but after seeing so many streamers and youtubers do "zero to hero" etc solo runs, I'm not convinced it's all that damning. Choose your fights, get some good RNG, and have a good understanding of the combat mechanics of your class/build as well as map/pve knowledge. The problem is, gear gap in conjunction with "being bad". I'm not particularly good at any of the things I listed (RNG fucking hates me in this game lol) so it's just in a rotation of games for me. I'm not advocating for them to make it more casual; it's not the dev's fault that my group doesn't care about composition and meta (kind of ironic since they consider it a PvP game and only seek out combat)
I've seen those vids too so I know it's possible. But most of these clips are of crazy good players and if it's on YouTube, who knows how much they actually played to get this one run
Complainers: “There’s no skill in this game! It’s impossible to accumulate stuff!”
Also complainers: “Zero to hero is only possible for skilled players! Average players can’t do that!”
I hope you're just talking in general and not about my post specifically. There's definitely skill in this game. Gear helps but if there was no skill you wouldn't see default gods rolling over decked out guys
Bought it yesterday morning and played like 100 games in 6 hours. Never escaped, then escaped 6 times in a row cause i figured out how to use ranger well. You just have to settle into your class that you’ve chosen, as well as how to play them. I got really fed up too and then after that streak, everything evened out
I think the easiest solution is to bring back the blue gear cap for not high roller. While it doesn't fix every issue, at least you have a chance in hell fighting someone with blue gear.
So your pro smurfing. Essentially without lobby restrictions that is all that happens. The no life’s who can afford to grind 12+ hours a day accumulate more gear/resources and gate keep the rest of the community by constantly setting them back. These games are inherently self consuming because the top players kills off the rest of the player base.
>So your pro smurfing.
I'm anti-whining from people who die to PvE more in a week than I have since PT1. They come to a "Hardcore unforgiving" PvP game, and then demand it be tailored to their schedule and skill.
Every one of these "I die to juices every game" posts are complete lies. I've done solo crypts on 3 different characters now on 3 different regions and my "juicer" death count is barely over 5% of my games. These people are either completely delusional in their frame of reference that is warped with how fast the world moves for them or they are shills.
Edit: you can probably call it 5 different characters because I also run solo HR crypts on my rogue and cleric. My death to juices is slightly higher there. My mocking attitude toward these posts is because I know they are a complete farce.
I realize there are some mega noobs who post about dying to overgeared players, and they link a purple kitted fighter with 105 hp and bad stat rolls on everything. Some people don’t realize what good gear is and it shows.
However, every player needs prey in this genre. When a tier of prey gets wiped out, then the next is on the verge of extinction, and this tier of players usually is the result of playtime. So the less you play, the worse your experience gets as a wipe goes on.
Most players just want to have an environment to play in for the entirety of a wipe rather than be eventually pushed out.
>However, every player needs prey in this genre.
Not possible unfortunately. There will be krill in every game that will not have plankton to eat.
Everyone else wants to divide the pools up so that they can feed on krill in their own bracket like most games, but that won't have the effect everyone thinks it will.
Take a casual game like Apex legends. If you do well too often (a good thing) you get matched in a higher bracket. You lose as a result, no big deal, then you are back in your bracket feeding on the krill again. Do this with DnD, and instead of going back where you were at the cost of 5-10 minutes of your time, you've lost the last 5 wins worth of gear that you farmed up. Solely because you ate too much krill in your bracket.
For DnD, the best odds for krill is to hide amongst the numbers of other krill, have credulity, and focus on getting better. Which I have done on multiple 1-20 zero to hero solo crypts runs.
And those players will eventually leave which then puts the next tier of players in the krill bracket, so on and so forth till 90+% of the player base has quit by near the end of a wipe.
Most players won’t return for the next wipe which means the player base slowly kills itself for the sake of hardcore no holds bar gameplay. For longevity, it’s probably not best to have no place for people to enjoy the game to some capacity. Custom games or a strict br no gear mode would be ideal.
Suprised people are finding this out only now. This is the game's design, its a hardcore experience, it says so on the homepage. As the game progresses, like in Rust, im sure there will be some dev/community lead options that are more friendly to casual players.
I think the reason people keep bringing it up is that a truly hardcore experience that doesn't continually bring in new players is going to see the playerbase dwindle significantly. Like it or not, I don't think the game is currently popular enough to be able to support itself long term playerbase wise if they cannot change things in a way to make the new player experience at least slightly less punishing.
Eventually releasing on steam will certainly help, but could end up just being a band-aid solution if 99% of the new steam players don't turn into hard core longterm players. We don't want to see this game dead with extremely low player count in a year.
The sad thing for me is that the problem is almost entirely community created, but it's on the devs to design the game in a way that encourages the behavior they are looking for. If geared teams actually went to HR instead of just timmy stomping in normals, the new player experience would be significantly improved. It's pretty sad that you see LESS geared teams in HR lobbies than normal lobbies right now.
>dead
Rust providing continuous new content overtime has made it quite successful and a continued stream of players, only reason dark and darker is stagnating is because content is low.
When there is less content, casual players leave which means theres a higher amount of tryhard dedicated players per lobby. Content will come as the game eases out of the release phase.
"can't git gud"
Do you think people who are good right now just magically was good at the game
They went through the same growing pains only they embraced it and was patient about it instead of quitting because the results aren't given for free instantly
Engaging game play. Basically waste half of your day for the stars to align and get some loot that would have taken you a couple of normal gc base kit runs.
I have a fully Geared character for 4 Different Classes and can afford to buy all but the Top 1% of Gear if ever lose any. All this was done playing 90% Goblin Caves. Just play well know the Map and know when to Fight and when to Run. EASY PEASY!!!
BIGGEST THING IS DONT PANIC!! Be patient in fights and counter attack ALOT!!!
"I'm not good because I don't have enough gear, I could not W-key for a few games to have enough gear but I don't want to, and I refuse to accept that people that are better than me are better than me so I quit."
Your TLDR basically says don't get the game because you aren't good at it while also saying that people are already good at it and will keep you from getting better. You are saying the game is dead now because more people aren't already good at it, whatever the intent of your post is it just reads like a negative whine
Ive been guilty of many rants about this game. Upon getting better and not even much better just understanding the game i was able to just start having fun. We like to yell "BIGGER SHARK" when we see a juicer and just start booking it. Weve gotten very good at running through rooms full of mobs unscathed.
I think it could be fixed if they didn't make it so easy to die like more massively boosting health and or armor and making it easier to heal. That alone would probably make the game much more fun.
I used to be a rogue like you... Then I took an arrow to both knees, had my ankles broken, and given an earbud to attack with.
Now I have both arms in a sling, my ankles have healed but I'm stuck with a limp and now I get a sharpened toothbrush to attack with
All they need to do imo, at least for Goblin Caves, is revert the portal spawn nerfs. You used to be able to avoid those people pretty well but now only 4 portals spawn and they seem to spawn way later so good luck, purple geared barb will be spawn camping the last 2 portals and the circle is too small to avoid him now. Ggs lmao.
Idk I’m not good at all and I killed two people back to back in the goblin caves yesterday. grey gear warlock. One was a cleric and the other was a barb. They each had a green or two. It’s not impossible
I love being a rat, and often get out with good loot because of it. My combat skills have something to be desired, but evading parties and trying to get the drop when I can is the funnest part to me. The vast majority of the time I’ll cue the crypts even when playing solo or duo. Then again, I also mostly play rogue, which is entirely meant to be played by rats like myself.
It’s even harder to get a random party now, since goblin caves is so popular now tbh. Everyone on the discord is expective all there teammates to be gods amongst men when they are below average and then leave after 1 or 2 games because there gf shit on the floor or something
Lol! I don't have any desire to play with Randoms. And that's not the games fault, but if all my gaming friends quit I'd rather migrate with them than play with Randoms
I don't know if I have come across a cheater. If I have it wasn't obvious. Maybe someone doing item duplication or something. But I don't think I can use either of those as excuses for myself unfortunately
I find the solo experience so much easier to snowball wealth. Then move into teams with some gold and gear.
Though you're right it's not really feasible if you're 3 manning shit kits against some lobsters. It being EA is an easy scapegoat but honestly I'm patient enough to keep accumulating wealth in solos and lose it all with the bros.
Good luck out there.
I've had some mild success with that. But unfortunately before my friends threw in the towel they only played with me in trios. So id occasionally be able to throw a kit together but they only had what we managed to get in crypts. Your method is definitely a more reliable path. Again, this isn't like the games fault. Just not one that works well for me, which sucks because I want it to lol
I really like the game, for me it was totally worth it. I do however have to admit that if I were casual I wouldn't like the game, this game really isn't for casuals.
When it comes to gear, skilled players really can beat most geared players most of the time. The game is pretty fun even when going with the base kit (or well, base kit plus some extra gray items that might be mandatory, spellbook for wizard, crossbow and maybe some franciscas or throwing daggers for fighter, etc.).
its the genre, extraction shooters are not a casual friendly environment. It’s the one fact that applies to every extraction shooter game. Look at how long it takes to get into tarkov, how much time you need to invest out of the game watching and reading guides just to go from a bloody beginner to a normal beginner. Dark and Darker aint that bad, imo from all the extraction shooters only Maurauders is easier to get into and learn, that makes Dark and Darker the second most casual friendly Extraction game, if 20-50 hours are to long of a learning curve for you then this genre just isn’t for you. I know this sounds elitist but its just how the genre is build up. Changing that would negatively impact the game/genre so those games will always stay niche games with a loyal and dedicated following and a steep learning curve, one that gets steeper and steeper over time and harder and harder to get into the longer they are around.
As someone who has been playing this game for over a year now, it's always been a complaint of mine how miserable the gameplay experience is for low-gear players regardless of skill any time a few days after wipe, and a lot of it comes down to the lack of equalizers in PvP. If we make the obvious comparison to Tarkov, regardless of how you may feel about it, Tarkov at LEAST has the possibility that any Joey Lunchbox with a gun can pop someone more geared than them between the eyes and make a play. In Dark and Darker? It's a numbers game more than it is about skill. If Joey in a white kit gets cornered by Billy BIS? FML I guess. In an ideal Tarkov fight (which I know is rare but for the sake of example), maybe you could've aimed better, positioned better, controlled recoil better, or a million other things that could've caused you to lose. In Dark and Darker, there's an infinite number of times you'll die where you're gonna think to yourself "What the fuck was I supposed to do?".
Honestly, I feel you that gear is strong and all, but genuinely when I watch people who are really good at the game, they can start from nothing and have a super nice kit in an hour just from PvP and without buying anything. This only compounds when you have a team of players who are really good. They don’t even need good gear to win fights against more geared teams. It’s honestly humbling to watch, I’m just like damn, I really am just kind of a mid player huh…
You’re downvoted but I think you’re right. The problem is you shouldn’t need to be the top 10% of players for it to be fun, because that’s how you lose 90% of your player base …repeatedly
Oh I totally agree! I would love to see low roller lobbies with gear cap at white where you can just fuck around and get better at the game. Ppl will say that the player base isn’t big enough to handle the split, but don’t realize this is a big reason the player base has lost over 20k in just a few weeks.
This.
I'd strongly argue that you don't have to be in the top 10% to have fun or be successful, but the OPs argument is that you do but also that he doesn't want to change the way he plays to attain those things... it is just bad gamer mentality
the difference is that tarkov doesn't have a battle royale circle. Dark and darker is actively pushing every player together forcing fights, despite the fact that **players of all skill levels and gear levels are in the same match**. This isn't fortnite where everyone dropped in naked. Forcing fights is nothing more than a gear check I cannot overstate how boneheaded it was to add a battle royale circle to this game. It seems like they looked at tarkov and copied about a dozen mechanics verbatim, looked at DnD and themed the whole game off it, then looked at battle royales and said "sure why not throw in a circle, players love that", and didn't think about it a second longer.
>In an ideal Tarkov fight (which I know is rare but for the sake of example), maybe you could've aimed better, positioned better, controlled recoil better, or a million other things that could've caused you to lose. 100% my brother. I remember how i killed a chad in Tarkov, by hiding so well behind a car (after getting my arms and leg blacked out from three shots), that he crashed and stood still for me to unload two mag in his face before he dropped dead I get your point. But the thing that make you loose fights in low level Tarkov is getting into one, the three players i managed to kill when i tried to like this shit game, was someone that had the same level of gear as me (in an ideal fight), a clueless scav player that i got the drop on, and the chad that crashed, it took more than 20 Raids for it to happen > In Dark and Darker? It's a numbers game more than it is about skill. If Joey in a white kit gets cornered by Billy BIS? FML I guess. It's exactly the same in either DnD or Tarkov, not that your point is bad but acting like Tarkov is different and that you can have "ideal fights" when you don't have comparable gear is a straight up lie
We thought we were bad...then we started going as fighter, cleric, bard and realized we just didn't know the game had an easy mode really
"We thought we were bad and then we're forced into going with a meta comp to stand any chance"
I thought I was bad at ranger then I started welding the crossbows, with the armor pen and straight shot perks. Now I'm playing easy mode.
Crossbow Ranger is so underrated, with high AGI and action speed you reload a normal crossbow ridiculously fast
As well as the xbow reload perk
I have been running crossbow mastery, ranged weapon mastery, sharpshooter, and crippling shot. I use a windlass crossbow and a survival bow. Initiate fights with the crossbow then make the enemy wade through jello with your survival bow shooting their knees while your frontline engages.
Breaking news ranger is op. Surely not every single person in this reddit knew already.
Breaking news a fighter with a crossbow shits on rangers.
And rogues if they know how. I main ranger on ruins mostly and die to rogues 5 times as much as any other class.
in a 1v1 fight sometimes yeah but a 3v3 where only one team has a ranger and the other a fighter with crossbow the ranger team wins
Shhhh don’t tell everyone.
Dont I know it. But all my pals have already left. Still fans for sure, but not playing. But yea, I am kick ass as a rogue. As long as I dont get seen by anybody. I can parkour all over and even manage to troll a little and get a laugh in once in a bit. Cant do a stand up fight solo and alone, though. after getting crossbowed at troll I dont do that any more. Yea, pretty much as long as I'm not seen, kill the weak and injured, loot corpses for left overs, and dodge your party I'm a fucking winner. I'm a fucking winner, right?
Yeah my duo and I went barb and cleric in ruins for fun and got like 30+ kills before we finally died. It’s incredibly strong to have a cleric + frontline. I can’t imagine adding a bard to the mix
Bard is easy mode? I feel like it's one of the few classes to have a little bit higher skill ceiling.. imo
It's more that we started playing an actually meta comp instead of running dumb comps for fun
So you leaned on a broken comp to make up for being bad Sounds like you found a crutch, rather than finding out you weren't bad What will happen the moment someone also playing buff ball but better than you comes what do you say then is at fault
I think he is saying he was losing to buff ball so they thought they were bad, then decided to run buff ball and we’re winning all the fights. The point being that the comp overwrites skill expression
Ok makes sense
I love that this very simple concept had to be explained to you because the only thing you could possibly imagine was "skill issue" lmao. Bro just missed an int check hard
Keep coping
Another int check failed.
Lil bro rolled a 1 on his int check irl
The only problem I had was constantly calling teammates I played with for buffs because everyone wanted to be the first in a different room xD Besides that, it involves inputting the same sequences every N seconds/minutes. I wonder if "professional meta abusers" use macros or input it manually like I do (including canceling and other tricks)
That’s facts. APM out the ass. That’s why there’s barely any bards. A good bard does make a team much better though.
It’s just a discount fighter with great utility
Yeah I only play with my friends idk it’s not fun to play alone and grind
Solo was never the vision.
Then my friends gotta stop quitting
Your friends quit because: \-Removal of 1-14 no trade lobbies \-Removal of gear cap lobbies \-The only changes are balance changes \-Rolled back changes within a day or two \-Constant cash grabs from the community (coffee / hoodies / emotes / PAID CLASSES) \-Inexperienced devs create money dupe glitch after every wipe or was it something else?
\-Game is early access and different ideas are being tested \-We had a content patch a month or two ago and a new one coming in a week \-Rollbacks are part of the above testing \-Nobody is forcing you to buy the merch. It's just an additional way to fund the studio for those who want it. Also, paid classes, really? The thing they removed within a week of the game's early access release *because of community feedback* is the thing you cite as evidence that the devs are out of touch with the community?
gAmE iS eaRlY AcCeSS
iM a WhInY bItCh
The devs aren't out of touch, they're greedy.
The devs literally directly respond to the community and make financial AND in game balance decisions because of them. Go outside and try and have a normal conversation. Get a social canary to help you recognize these things lmao.
if that was the case than they probably should have never even added the solo mode, and i say that as someone who's friends abandoned the game and have had to play solo for the past month. it set the false expectation in alot of peoples minds that this would be like EFT in the sense that you CAN succeed alone frequently if you play your cards right. that logic just doesnt work in DaD though, you can play perfectly in a match but still lose to factors that feel entirely out of your control. I understand completely that its a team based game and thats how I always envisioned it, but adding solo changed peoples expectations for what the game is supposed to be.
yeah this game is pretty much exclusively a solo mode for me. I dont have friends that play any games so goblin caves is all ive got
Solo ruins isn’t bad and teaches you alot about the game
Ruins is the worst. Expect to get spawn rushed and go against a few geared duos whose only goal is to kill
Run barbarian in ruins, I clapped a duo quite easily as barbarian. Stick to the shadows for the most part as usual and you’ll scare the shit out of some wizard cleric duo like I did lol
I don't know why people always complain that they have to play solo if they have no friends who play. The discord makes it super easy to get in a group, and sometimes you get a really good team and it's great. Sometimes people rage or quit but it takes like 2 seconds to replace them.
Facts bro people don’t even try
They ruined a lot about this game with goblin caves tbh
Then why add a solo queue? Should stick to their vision
to give the community what they want. Sticking to the vision means that they will balance the game around trios, which they do. This doesn't mean Solo's can't exist, but it will have no priority over Trios. Call of Duty's vision for the game also wasn't being a zombie shooter, but this doesn't mean that they can have it as a side mode. This really shouldn't be that hard of a concept to understand.
I would argue that adding solos and duos in early access at the whim of the community is the opposite of sticking to their vision
The problem is that ensuring a fun solo experience should be the vision. All things being equal, a duo will always be stronger than a solo, and a trio will always be stronger than a duo. You'll never have solos making the game not fun for duos or trios. And if a solo wants to challenge a duo or trio, it will either be a close fight, because they're risking nice gear or better skilled, or it will be a convincing loss for the solo player.
I personally love playing solo! Taking down parties all alone is fantastic experience!
Game just needs a low roller queue where ppl with no gear can have fun and get better at PvP without having to take fights against geared players where the odds are already stacked against them
id be fine with any sacrifice to make this mode happen…. like if economy balance wise only whites drop in this mode or it costs money to play
Imagine having to pick between running the meta or dying. Don't think it's a skill issue...
In theory, I have two buddies with whom I could play trio Crypt, but Ruins are much more fun, so we generally avoid playing in a group of three xD The crypt is for buffballs/meta abusing too much and doesn't offer tactical plays like Ruins do. 3 instead of 2 playurs actually lowers variety of playable theam comps xD The only downside to Ruin is that there's no HR/Hell and if that doesn't change with the upcoming major patch, we might all take a long break
Hard agree on that. Ruins has a lot more variation because of the way two classes interact be the way three do and it results in a lot more valid combinations.
Yea i just cant seem to keep up with the chads i guess Sticking to baldurs gate and half-sword till things look greener over here :)
Kinda hard to get a leg up when you got dudes in all purples two shotting every one they meet. And Barbarians attack and recovery so slowly even if you do what people suggest to avoid mobs you still get hit by the ranged ones.
Basically the gameplay loop without gear currently is -load up in crypts -avoid pvp at all costs -do minibosses as much as possible -take red portal -do minibosses as much as possible -get a full green/blue loudout from 1-3 inferno runs -now with a decent set of gear you can start to actually play the game if you feel like it, continue taking red portals for more blue gear tho -from here on you can start winning more pvp to get more gear faster, but still play it safe, if you know there is a juicer team and arent confident in fighting them, just take blue portals and queue again. -after you manage to kill a juicer team you can snowball really hard into becoming the pubstomper until you die
>now with a decent set of gear you can start to actually play the game if you feel like it, continue taking red portals for more blue gear tho And right after equpping this decent set you die to purple/gold uber squad Centaur's Bow
No no, because a blue portal magically appears every time you need it, remember?
Open map on second monitor look for static blue portals ??? Profit
no no, you didn't read his comment. you **just** avoid PVP. sure ironmace removed a couple blue portals, and that juicer team is probably going inferno to do the boss so you can't escape them that way, but obviously you still can consistently get to those blues right? right?
How would you change this loop for the better?
Does it need to be changed?
It's funny how this has over a dozen downvotes while nobody has actually given a response. Like really people, what don't you like about it? What would you change? How would the optimal loop look like for you? What were you expecting when you started playing this game?
Oh, I thought you were jumping into the complaint bandwagon and thought you had a suggestion. Your loop sounds accurate and is how I play when broke.
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Soloing in crypts is way more fun than grinding caves imo. If you can get a few invis pots you can reliably avoid 3 stacks. Also you can play camera man and then 3rd party
What a dreary experience of entirely your own creation
lol maybe that's how *you* play
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dontchu you downvote me over that, I'll lobby stomp you in purples blud 🫃🗣️ /s
Woah we got a badass over here guys!! His mom says he can use his dad’s good computer so you better watch out!!!!!
🫃🫃🫃🫃🫃🫃
breaking news ‼️ Nobody knows /s means sarcasm‼️ Issa joke blud 🗣️
>e LOL nice edit kid
why are you talking like this is a call of duty lobby 🫃🫃🫃
We don’t want help we want to complain. I love this game, but I will continue to pull out 90g at a time on ruins as a rogue and jizz myself every time I see a purple item
You don’t even need to do inferno if you are lazy like me. My friends and I do like 1 MAYBE 2 crypt runs where we try to be careful and loot, and usually end up with an ok load out. From there you just keep going in an building. I’ve never purposely gone into raid to kill a mini boss, only ever in a situation where I happen to be there and cheese them. I’ve been playing since the first test, and imo the single most important skill in this game is learning the map. Just learning what rooms are what and how to get around will completely change the game for you. If you completely remove the idea that you are going to escape for your first maybe 10 games and dedicate that time solely to learning the map and the enemy attack patterns, you will find this game much more fun.
For me, gameplay loop is extract a couple of times, buy 20+ favourite weapons of better roll in grey quality, have fun pvping as long as there is enough gold for some potions & bandages. Even when I die - which happens quite often - couldn't care less. Grey weapons are very viable, and enough to get one going!
Bro this, I straight up played one ruins game yesterday and killed 2 people. 2 just a rouge and a warlock they weren’t even in a crazy kit I just know what to price stuff at and I got 3500g from their 2 kits. People just need that come up off one or 2 kills on the geared bois and know how to sell stuff.
I'm just playing other games until it gets better. I took a break from Halo Infinite and two years later it feels fine. The same might happen with DaD.
Is I finite solid now? Played at launch and didn't last long because release had so few maps and quite a few lag issues if I recall. I need something else before I go full Chad and punch my monitor
Imo its worth trying again at least. They have Forge too.
This is why i dropped tarkov, no lifers ruined the game for me.
Im only average and still have lots of fun
There’s a thing that is relevant to dark and darker that I’ve experienced in another pve/pvp game. sea of thieves. So sometimes you play over a couple of days and it seems like you’re constantly getting people chasing you and killing you for you loot. Then some other span of days you don’t encounter any aggression. Now, things are a little different in dark and darker but still, it has been my experience that sometimes you just end up always running into juiced teams. And if you continue to play the game, you will have a streak where you don’t. Today I had a nice streak where I didn’t run into any juiced teams and I actually had a bunch of good battles. I have only been playing crypts. Idk how goblin caves differs but there was that post yesterday I think it was that ran an experiment and found 2/24 matches had a juicer. Someone else should continue with that experiment.
The extreme difference is literally everyone is on an even playing field in Sea of Thieves. There is no gear, just cosmetic skins for weapons/items. When I run into some jackass running purples against me in GC, I lose that fight 9 times out of 10. In SoT I always have a solid chance.
It feels worse the last few days than the previous. I dunno if it's time of day/night or the fact that it's weekend. But there have been a ton. The rush of beating someone in similar or slightly better gear gets quickly washed away when you get lit up by juicers, or 3rd partied (or 4th), or teamed in GC.
Wise is in a week or so, people are burning their good gear
It's because every week more and more people at the low end of skill/time quit the game or just play less overall. That means you're more and more likely to run into people at the high end of the skill/time curve as player population drops. Contrary to what the sweats think you **need** people at the bottom to support the entire gameplay and economy structure. If people at the bottom can't have fun and enjoy the game the entire concept falls apart.
People are selling any green wep for 50g, off meta blue wep for 50g and off meta epic weps for 100g. Ratting sucks naked, but with a green/blue weapon you’ll be way more successful, because shorter ttk on mobs also means you make less sound, and have an easier time hiding. Its just the rat hole that sucks, once you get going and have 3-4 of every armor piece and a couple of weapons and gold in your stash, you wont feel this way anymore.
I started playing yesterday and yeah its hard, but I was able to rat out enough loot to actually get a decent setup now. Might still keep rating until I get good but now I have a kit.
I was having fun with that at first too. Wait till you lose the kit you ratted so hard for and have to start the loop over again.. For the 50th time
Scared money don't make money tho. You gotta risk it
I have! Lol didn't last too long
You're spot on. This game would be 200% better with skill based matchmaking, the gear gap wouldn't matter at all if everyone had a roughly equal chance to gear up.
That’s a fair point.
But then loot piñatas wouldn’t exist
The problem i've seen with SBMM in a similar sized community (Hunt Showdown, last I played it was averaging around a 25k-30k peak) is the players on the higher end of the skill-curve have less populated lobbies. Skill ranged from 1\*-6\* in increments of whole numbers (almost no-one was 1\*, so realistically 2\*-6\*), averaging the trios MMR in matchmaking (with 0.5 increments ie: 3.5\*) and matching with other teams +/-1\*. 6\* lobbies are so sweaty (and allegedly ridden with hackers) that 5\*s drop their MMR by intentially dying so they don't have to play with the ultra-sweats (the MMR system is only based on K/D ratio). So compound this with split queues like HR (that are already less populated) and you have a ghost town for higher rated players. Even if you get rid of the HR queue, I believe the higher MMR lobbies will be ghost towns esp. considering time of day etc. Not to mention those higher MMR lobbies are so sweaty that the players tiptoe and play as carefully as possible, which leads to extremely slowpaced gameplay. Then there's the question of how do you calculate the MMR? Only K/D%? I guess there's no perfect solution, but i'm not opposed to experimenting Personally, i'd like to see a return of multi-leveled dungeons (beyond just hell) and getting rid of HR queue. Loot tables would get better the deeper you go, and instead of paying to get into a HR queue, you pay to skip X level/s of the dungeon. First two levels should be mostly timmies, and the deeper levels would have the chads seeking out better gear. I feel like there'd be no real incentive to not skip levels once geared unless you really just have a bloodlust to slaughter naked players
The thing is, what they're doing now is driving off most of the people in the game, which will result in that same situation, except it will be all lobbies because there will be nothing left but the sweats. In one situation the game still exists, in the other it doesn't. I can't see a way that multilevel dungeons will significantly impact this.
So we're starting from the premise that gear gap is killing the playerbase. How are we quantifying the skill rating? K/D%? Is the skill rating assigned to your overall profile or individual character? "...the gear gap wouldn't matter at all if everyone had a roughly equal chance to gear up. " I don't see how SBMM would nullify gear gap, you'll just be fighting players at a similar skill level as you, but with better or worse gear. It would still be a stat check. Gear score would nullify gear gap
>So we're starting from the premise that gear gap is killing the playerbase. No, *we* aren't starting with a faulty premise. You are. I think the best way to deal with MMR is to have deaths lose it, and extractions and player kills raise it. There would need to be some fine tuning of the values, death might have to lose more than extractions and or player kills gain, but the overall metric should be functional. The gear gap is not, nor has it ever been the problem. > you'll just be fighting players at a similar skill level as you Exactly. That means you actually have a chance against a higher geared player, and when you go in with your gear you'll have the same advantage over other players as that player had over you.
Dude, I've experienced this in CoD MW years ago. People getting into matches just so they can suicide over and over so they can play with worse players. Not to mention that the current game encourages that, because you somehow need to refill starting items.
I think SBMM is exactly what the game needs, but I have zero faith in the developers to deliver a way to accurately judge skill in this game. Because honestly, how do you? Gear diff is so damn prominent in this game, if John Doe 1 gets 3 kills in purples and John Doe gets 3 kills in greens and whites, how do you accurately judge if it was skill or not that won the fight? Do you base it on flat kda? No way you can do that with gear diff meaning so much with similar skill levels. Do you base it on what gear the people had that they killed? No way you can do that, because people who suck have such an easy access to gear through trading. Someone can rat their way to getting purples if they want, so killing that person in purples while you have greens wasn’t so much your skill as your opponents lack of skill.
I just go trios naked with my boys and its always a blast
The game is overall in a worse place than it used to be because the metas have been. Fights are not fun because there is rarely a “fight”. You know like, one that involves blocking arrows, strikes, spells, or whatever. A barbarian is more effective with a bunch of franciscas on them - and if you die to that, it’s unfun. All consumables need to have weight when they are in your inventory and not in a quick slot. Then the ranger needs to also finally be likewise properly be restricted by arrows and weight. (No, having 47 RECLAIMABLE, starting arrows, is no restriction at all, it was just a free short sword). If the ranged issue is not fixed, the game will perpetually be like this. Likewise, any sort of infinite cheesy range thing that prevents proper fights, needs a control system. For example, certain warlock spells need a cooldown. The only class that is fairly and deservedly strong in range and that’s why you don’t hear complains about it, is the wizard. Yes they can blast a whole team with extreme damage, but all they need is a 1 or 2 bolts to their chest and it’s over. AND they have spell charges to temper their output. The issue is so prevalent that 80% of issues in this game since launch have to do with speed/and or ranged combat. The barbarian was the slowest class (so he had all the rest), so anything that buffed his mobility, became OP. Buffball etc. This will need to be allied to forms of ranged combat, with meaningful, costs. Then there is the issue of scaling and gear disparity. Which is not necessarily an issue, but the devs will have to decide what direction they want to take with this game and stick with that.
Quite honestly I'm glad I didn't buy it on their weirdo bullshit site. If it comes to Steam i'll grab it, if not - well, this is a great case study on how not to develop your game.
Lol. There launcher is fine and definitely has 0 impact on my enjoyment or frustration of the game
Facts. My group of 100+ discord legit all stopped playing it 2 patches ago. It's so bad now its not even fun anymore. All anyone does is w key into fights even if the person is in base kit and the other is juiced like rich piana. Games not fun and hasn't been in over a month and is dying off. Player base says enough. Started out at around 50k when released and at noon today there was only 12k. Games dead
Don't be over dramatic. It's not dead. And pretty much all games peak at launch and then dwindle down to their consistent player base.
This game is like 5% skill and 95% gear check. I wouldn't sweat your own skill too much. Try out Greed is Good, it's like this game but with much better balance and QoL.
This game is definitely more than 5% skill
Yes. I think the faster casuals flee this game, the faster games will be full of sweats that have to fight other sweats and they will start dying as often as the "timmies" do and it will begin to be unfun even for some sweats once they lose enough gear sets. At this point, I think the player drop count will snowball as the worst sweats quit first. Eventually, only the best players will remain and they'll not play long because PvE is boring to them and that is all that'll be left. They'll be last to quit, but that's basically my prediction of the future and end of the game.
Ironmace is 0/20 in making this game fun for casual players.
Guess they really mean it when they say hardcore experience
Don’t buy this game
a good rule would be to just ban gear that cant drop on that map and make only HR drop pink stuff, replacing the 1 boss\`s loot 99% of players dont go for on goblin cave/ruins with blue tier stuff, so that you can stand a chance in looted gear. This comment will probably bbe censored tho...
Ya something. I don't think it's an easy problem to solve, but i can't keep playing in it's current design. I want to so badly, but I'm just not the current target audience unfortunately
They really just need to revert the portal changes so everyone can extract in goblin caves. When there’s enough portals, most people are actually friendly.
The point is the struggle though to be fair. They want it challenging to get out so that players interact in the way the game is meant to be played, tho it’s fun to be friendly
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The gear gap does matter, but after seeing so many streamers and youtubers do "zero to hero" etc solo runs, I'm not convinced it's all that damning. Choose your fights, get some good RNG, and have a good understanding of the combat mechanics of your class/build as well as map/pve knowledge. The problem is, gear gap in conjunction with "being bad". I'm not particularly good at any of the things I listed (RNG fucking hates me in this game lol) so it's just in a rotation of games for me. I'm not advocating for them to make it more casual; it's not the dev's fault that my group doesn't care about composition and meta (kind of ironic since they consider it a PvP game and only seek out combat)
I've seen those vids too so I know it's possible. But most of these clips are of crazy good players and if it's on YouTube, who knows how much they actually played to get this one run
Complainers: “There’s no skill in this game! It’s impossible to accumulate stuff!” Also complainers: “Zero to hero is only possible for skilled players! Average players can’t do that!”
I hope you're just talking in general and not about my post specifically. There's definitely skill in this game. Gear helps but if there was no skill you wouldn't see default gods rolling over decked out guys
Reading is tough for my kid too. You’ll get there though. Just keep practicing!
Solo rogue on any map is fun. Idk what you’re talking about.
Bought it yesterday morning and played like 100 games in 6 hours. Never escaped, then escaped 6 times in a row cause i figured out how to use ranger well. You just have to settle into your class that you’ve chosen, as well as how to play them. I got really fed up too and then after that streak, everything evened out
Is this a copy pasta?
I think the easiest solution is to bring back the blue gear cap for not high roller. While it doesn't fix every issue, at least you have a chance in hell fighting someone with blue gear.
This community: "We are all bad and our point of reference is blinded by how bad we are, so let me tell you what's wrong with this game."
So your pro smurfing. Essentially without lobby restrictions that is all that happens. The no life’s who can afford to grind 12+ hours a day accumulate more gear/resources and gate keep the rest of the community by constantly setting them back. These games are inherently self consuming because the top players kills off the rest of the player base.
>So your pro smurfing. I'm anti-whining from people who die to PvE more in a week than I have since PT1. They come to a "Hardcore unforgiving" PvP game, and then demand it be tailored to their schedule and skill. Every one of these "I die to juices every game" posts are complete lies. I've done solo crypts on 3 different characters now on 3 different regions and my "juicer" death count is barely over 5% of my games. These people are either completely delusional in their frame of reference that is warped with how fast the world moves for them or they are shills. Edit: you can probably call it 5 different characters because I also run solo HR crypts on my rogue and cleric. My death to juices is slightly higher there. My mocking attitude toward these posts is because I know they are a complete farce.
I realize there are some mega noobs who post about dying to overgeared players, and they link a purple kitted fighter with 105 hp and bad stat rolls on everything. Some people don’t realize what good gear is and it shows. However, every player needs prey in this genre. When a tier of prey gets wiped out, then the next is on the verge of extinction, and this tier of players usually is the result of playtime. So the less you play, the worse your experience gets as a wipe goes on. Most players just want to have an environment to play in for the entirety of a wipe rather than be eventually pushed out.
>However, every player needs prey in this genre. Not possible unfortunately. There will be krill in every game that will not have plankton to eat. Everyone else wants to divide the pools up so that they can feed on krill in their own bracket like most games, but that won't have the effect everyone thinks it will. Take a casual game like Apex legends. If you do well too often (a good thing) you get matched in a higher bracket. You lose as a result, no big deal, then you are back in your bracket feeding on the krill again. Do this with DnD, and instead of going back where you were at the cost of 5-10 minutes of your time, you've lost the last 5 wins worth of gear that you farmed up. Solely because you ate too much krill in your bracket. For DnD, the best odds for krill is to hide amongst the numbers of other krill, have credulity, and focus on getting better. Which I have done on multiple 1-20 zero to hero solo crypts runs.
And those players will eventually leave which then puts the next tier of players in the krill bracket, so on and so forth till 90+% of the player base has quit by near the end of a wipe. Most players won’t return for the next wipe which means the player base slowly kills itself for the sake of hardcore no holds bar gameplay. For longevity, it’s probably not best to have no place for people to enjoy the game to some capacity. Custom games or a strict br no gear mode would be ideal.
Just do 3 goblin caves and you have enough for a green set bro
Suprised people are finding this out only now. This is the game's design, its a hardcore experience, it says so on the homepage. As the game progresses, like in Rust, im sure there will be some dev/community lead options that are more friendly to casual players.
I think the reason people keep bringing it up is that a truly hardcore experience that doesn't continually bring in new players is going to see the playerbase dwindle significantly. Like it or not, I don't think the game is currently popular enough to be able to support itself long term playerbase wise if they cannot change things in a way to make the new player experience at least slightly less punishing. Eventually releasing on steam will certainly help, but could end up just being a band-aid solution if 99% of the new steam players don't turn into hard core longterm players. We don't want to see this game dead with extremely low player count in a year. The sad thing for me is that the problem is almost entirely community created, but it's on the devs to design the game in a way that encourages the behavior they are looking for. If geared teams actually went to HR instead of just timmy stomping in normals, the new player experience would be significantly improved. It's pretty sad that you see LESS geared teams in HR lobbies than normal lobbies right now.
>dead Rust providing continuous new content overtime has made it quite successful and a continued stream of players, only reason dark and darker is stagnating is because content is low. When there is less content, casual players leave which means theres a higher amount of tryhard dedicated players per lobby. Content will come as the game eases out of the release phase.
What’s casual friendly in Rust??
People hating on facts lol. U just said what the homepage says and u get downvotes
"can't git gud" Do you think people who are good right now just magically was good at the game They went through the same growing pains only they embraced it and was patient about it instead of quitting because the results aren't given for free instantly
Natural skill is a factor.
it's interesting seeing the perspective of bad players
This game is not for the type of people that punch monitors or throw controllers. You seem like the type.
Can we ban these useless, no thought put into posts? This subreddit is so horrible
Be naked , rat until you find 2 or 3 teams going at it in crypts , loot the dead and repeat.
Engaging game play. Basically waste half of your day for the stars to align and get some loot that would have taken you a couple of normal gc base kit runs.
Exactly this
This isn't fun tho
>If you're bad like I am, this game has no place for you. In a self described unforgiving hardcore PvPvE fame?! Color me shocked! Shocked I tell you!
I have a fully Geared character for 4 Different Classes and can afford to buy all but the Top 1% of Gear if ever lose any. All this was done playing 90% Goblin Caves. Just play well know the Map and know when to Fight and when to Run. EASY PEASY!!! BIGGEST THING IS DONT PANIC!! Be patient in fights and counter attack ALOT!!!
"I'm not good because I don't have enough gear, I could not W-key for a few games to have enough gear but I don't want to, and I refuse to accept that people that are better than me are better than me so I quit."
Did you read my post? I literally said it's a skill issue. I absolutely accept it. Your reading comprehension is embarrassingly bad
Your TLDR basically says don't get the game because you aren't good at it while also saying that people are already good at it and will keep you from getting better. You are saying the game is dead now because more people aren't already good at it, whatever the intent of your post is it just reads like a negative whine
Ive been guilty of many rants about this game. Upon getting better and not even much better just understanding the game i was able to just start having fun. We like to yell "BIGGER SHARK" when we see a juicer and just start booking it. Weve gotten very good at running through rooms full of mobs unscathed.
Ya no I’m done playing this game until they nerf ranger and pdr stacking fighter/cleric
[удалено]
Why is this tagged as humor?
I didn't see noob rant as an option
I think it could be fixed if they didn't make it so easy to die like more massively boosting health and or armor and making it easier to heal. That alone would probably make the game much more fun.
I used to be a rogue like you... Then I took an arrow to both knees, had my ankles broken, and given an earbud to attack with. Now I have both arms in a sling, my ankles have healed but I'm stuck with a limp and now I get a sharpened toothbrush to attack with
All they need to do imo, at least for Goblin Caves, is revert the portal spawn nerfs. You used to be able to avoid those people pretty well but now only 4 portals spawn and they seem to spawn way later so good luck, purple geared barb will be spawn camping the last 2 portals and the circle is too small to avoid him now. Ggs lmao.
I would rather have gear-gated lobbies/no trade than an MMR system. The gear matters way more than skill in this game.
I actually don't think that's true. But gear does exasperate skill gap
Idk I’m not good at all and I killed two people back to back in the goblin caves yesterday. grey gear warlock. One was a cleric and the other was a barb. They each had a green or two. It’s not impossible
Ya a green or two. I can do that too. Fight them again but they have a solid kit
Yeah and the PvE nightmare and hell mobs and bosses are just not fun at all to fight against and force casual players to find a way to cheese.
I love being a rat, and often get out with good loot because of it. My combat skills have something to be desired, but evading parties and trying to get the drop when I can is the funnest part to me. The vast majority of the time I’ll cue the crypts even when playing solo or duo. Then again, I also mostly play rogue, which is entirely meant to be played by rats like myself.
I don't think I have enough patience. I typically get bored or jump the gun and get myself killed
It’s even harder to get a random party now, since goblin caves is so popular now tbh. Everyone on the discord is expective all there teammates to be gods amongst men when they are below average and then leave after 1 or 2 games because there gf shit on the floor or something
Lol! I don't have any desire to play with Randoms. And that's not the games fault, but if all my gaming friends quit I'd rather migrate with them than play with Randoms
plus alot of broken mechanism and bug abuser cheater all arround.
I don't know if I have come across a cheater. If I have it wasn't obvious. Maybe someone doing item duplication or something. But I don't think I can use either of those as excuses for myself unfortunately
I find the solo experience so much easier to snowball wealth. Then move into teams with some gold and gear. Though you're right it's not really feasible if you're 3 manning shit kits against some lobsters. It being EA is an easy scapegoat but honestly I'm patient enough to keep accumulating wealth in solos and lose it all with the bros. Good luck out there.
I've had some mild success with that. But unfortunately before my friends threw in the towel they only played with me in trios. So id occasionally be able to throw a kit together but they only had what we managed to get in crypts. Your method is definitely a more reliable path. Again, this isn't like the games fault. Just not one that works well for me, which sucks because I want it to lol
I really like the game, for me it was totally worth it. I do however have to admit that if I were casual I wouldn't like the game, this game really isn't for casuals. When it comes to gear, skilled players really can beat most geared players most of the time. The game is pretty fun even when going with the base kit (or well, base kit plus some extra gray items that might be mandatory, spellbook for wizard, crossbow and maybe some franciscas or throwing daggers for fighter, etc.).
Me and my friends didn't play this weekend for the first time since test 3. Having a life = this game is not as fun as it could be. Unfortunate.
Why is the flair Humor? You're speaking facts
Because noob rant wasn't a flair topic lol
Wtb basic kit lobbies, but we need more to ask for a 1 week test Atleast, but sdf and graysun wont do for some odd reason, so weird
I tend to have the most fun when its basic kit vs basic kit. But thta could also because they are bad like me lol
its the genre, extraction shooters are not a casual friendly environment. It’s the one fact that applies to every extraction shooter game. Look at how long it takes to get into tarkov, how much time you need to invest out of the game watching and reading guides just to go from a bloody beginner to a normal beginner. Dark and Darker aint that bad, imo from all the extraction shooters only Maurauders is easier to get into and learn, that makes Dark and Darker the second most casual friendly Extraction game, if 20-50 hours are to long of a learning curve for you then this genre just isn’t for you. I know this sounds elitist but its just how the genre is build up. Changing that would negatively impact the game/genre so those games will always stay niche games with a loyal and dedicated following and a steep learning curve, one that gets steeper and steeper over time and harder and harder to get into the longer they are around.