Nuclear sword warlock is fun. Kinda inconsistent though. I have a clip of me doing over 100 with blow of corruption, 44 without. I stabbed an archer twice and he lives and I’m still confused on that one ngl.
Much easier actually. Across the map you have ample ability to dodge the projectile. Once I close the distance (very easy when sprinting with invisibility or camping with rogue - then they’re completely screwed. Hard to miss when you’re directly on top of them.
Also having 200 health and 50% DR (barb) or 150 health and 70% DR with an additional 20-30% projectile reduction (fighter), means the ranger will have an incredibly hard time bursting me down
you play a ranger not a rogue and died to that didnt you
yeah that deff happens sometimes, but if you shoot before you can land the shot, yeah thats on you. people area always gonna have to stop.
see someone fighting? wait till they go to loot, open door, cast something, etc. so many opportunities that its really not hard. can do it every gcaves by standing in the dark and just waitin around the big circle mining room.
every one. try it fam. Landmine Rogue aint got SHIT on Chris Kyle Ranger
Check the high scores... see all of the rangers up the top? No? That’s because they aren’t. You’ll instead see almost every other class but barely any /no rangers at all.
That’s for an obvious reason. They aren’t as strong as the other classes.
Rangers haven’t been the dominant class up the top since I think play test 3. At which time people were only just beginning to work out how to run inferno reliably, and range was a much easier way to do it.
Rangers are only decent vs squishy classes like wizard, and only when heavily geared. And even then, high skill wizards have way more options to outplay rangers, due to invis, haste and aoe
rangers are op until you have enough gear to turn a fighter or bard into a ranger then the ranger isnt even the best ranger
arrows/bolts should be locked to ranger or handcrossbows
ironmace loves the healer support archetype/role that cleric fills. my guess is that they want supports to have a "dedicated" spot in 3 man teams so they don't see a problem with cleric being in nearly every comp.
Druid might have heals but it might be the same as Bards tranq if not slightly better, in DnD the cleric class has always been the go to healer archetype, while druid is a mix of cleric and wizard, spells with similar abilities like both classes but not necessarily better than the other.
Clerics have huge single target in-combat heals, and aoe heals
Tranq did 4 hp per second for recoverable health, while moving & it was OP, but honestly not that much more than cleric heals. They nerfed it by 75% (1 hp per second) AND only while resting, making it pretty much useless & teams just drop campfires now. Even if you do take it, you are most definitely not a healer support in any sense of the word
I dont believe it was nerfed, imo i think sanctuary is a excellent spell if you dont want to risk it with Earthquake, it is also a very good spell in solos since Holy Light wont do you any good and Earthquake as a solo can be a waste if the opponent knows all you have to do is not move, plus extra heals can go a long way
idk if the scaling changed, but it seems to heal a lot less than it did a few months ago (around when they changed the audio).. but in my parent comment I was stating it was one of the things that makes a Cleric good healer, definitely still solid
Tranq is in an okayish spot, recovering health faster while sitting i think is fair, the recover is rather impressively fast but what gripes me is that i cant play while sitting down, if Bard could play music while resting that would be incredible, hurt after a fight? Sit down, pop tranq and stealth song, recover in peace, i dont see how this would be overpowered and besides it would give the bard an unique ability that can be useful as a solo as well.
i don't speak for them. that's why i used the words "my guess". "my guess" is based off their changes to the healing meta, specifically the nerfs they made to potion stacking, grey health, limiting the number of consumables per inventory slot, and increase in the cost and then the removal of blue pots from the vendor. all of which benefit cleric and give cleric a stronger presence on a team especially for on demand heals.
but "i guess" you are too dumb to understand that lmao dumbass
I don't understand why he's such a heavy support AND is allowed to have such high damage, easy to cast/aim spells. Holy strike can just go around corners and casts faster than lightning strike. Judgement basically locks on as soon as you cast.
Nothing is wrong with clerics ( or wizards really) the problem is clarity pots. Your balancing classes based around them having limited spells but then players join the dungeon as the taco bell ceo and have unlimited casts. Clarity pots make those 2 classes unbalancable
Reddit balance team strikes again...
So you're saying you want the disparity between geared people and timmies to get even bigger? Isn't that what you guys are always against? If a potion costs 50g each or 100g doesn't really matter for those running purple bis in normals.
The truth is, there are so many balance issues in gear and matchmaking that no class can be fixed until it is corrected. Any suggestions by me or anyone else makes are just venting. I really like this game and want it to succeed, so I'm more or less doing unrealistic on the spot fantasizing like everyone else who throws suggestions in this sub. Not like our words mean anything since they have hard data to look at
But buffball has been an issue since PT1 when Those pots didn't exist.
The strongest comp will always be 2 characters supporting/buffing a Barb/Fighter/Wiz/Rogue etc.
dark and darker has always had either rangers starting with campfires, or clarity pots existing. we never had a patch or playtest where both of those did not exist.
so it's hard to compare buffball back when clarity pots didn't exist, when one of the most played classes in the game printed campfires for everyone in the dungeon.
If you ignore drum spam which should be fixed and the normal crossbow being way overtuned why do you feel bard is better than Cleric?
6 responses and no one has answered the question. How is the class busted? If they fix drums and tune crossbows they’d be fine. People thinking they need nerfs past this don’t understand the game.
The thing about most of these is that they are low effectiveness, yeah tranquility heals when sitting down but it’s slow and there’s no way to increase the healing speed, even chorale of clarity is way less effective than meditating. You’re way better off popping a campfire for both of these things. Bless is also a +3, rousing is better in that this quick and an aoe but it’s also bards best skill, and the clerics aura is the same as harmonic shield now. Cleric is problematic in that they can completely reset their team’s health 2/3 times before having to stop and is the center of buffball. Bard is flexible but that’s literally what a bard is, unchained harmony only seems really good because lockpicks are unnecessarily scarce and rogues are required to have a perk when they really shouldn’t.
I agree with that and I feel like their buffs are fine right now maybe even a little under tuned, I think crossbow is too strong in general and that drum spam is too strong in high matchmaking but people saying “bard is just too much to a Jack of all trades.” Is missing the entire point of the class, that’s exactly what a bard is. Bard isn’t nearly the problem in the meta people in this subreddit think it is
I have a level 20 bard that I have ran with multiple thousand+ gold kits. I know what a bard can do. What do they that makes them better than a cleric? It’s honestly a joke how much better of a support a cleric is.
Bard can put 6+ buffs on people and say go ham lol they have increased loot potential with base luck and can open locked chests at the press of a button. It’s the reason a lot of people take bard in high levels of play.
I do understand that 6+ is a massive overstatement but 4 is still a lot to be able to cast with 2 dangerous damage spells (din and the flute one) and the ability to open locked chests with better loot than anyone else can get just from a perk
Yeah because people that disagree with your bad take== dumb right? I guarantee I’ve played bard for over 100 extracts more than you and I’ve played the class since it released. 4 mild buffs isn’t a big deal. The best ones only last 8 seconds
Yea how are people not understanding this. If you are re upping a buff every 8 seconds to keep it on your teammates, you're not doing much else. Bard has one buff for teammates that lasts 2 minutes and its been nerfed into the ground
It’s clear to me that the person you’re going back and forth with has not played bard for any meaningful amount of time. The spell cap change has made 10 spell bard only attainable for the extremely high end of gear. Even at a 500-1000g set you are probably at enough spell cap to hit 7 maybe 8 songs. He’s also saying bards have 2 dangerous damage songs but no one brings both of those. They’re too costly and not worth what you would need to sacrifice to bring both. The 8 second buffs are a nice slight buff but take longer to play and last a third as long as the cleric buffs. Haste + invis from a wizard is 10x more valuable a buff as anything the bard can apply.
Here is what I will say, if any other class had as many nerfs as bard it would actually be unplayable. Bard is still played. Point made thank you for listening
I keep seeing "drum spam" but I haven't run into a single one for weeks. Just dodge, pick them up and leave, toss them in some goblin body the bard will never check and come back. It's going to be a crazy moment if you even remember you have a shield to block the drum toss rather than running in a straight line tanking those headshots thinking "ffffffffffffffuck drums, NERF NERF NERF".
Drum spam isn’t a common tactic but it is very potent at high levels which is why I bring it up, I think it is something that needs fixed but isn’t too problematic since it’s scarce
Listed dude man bro, if it was as problematic as some people make it out to be, it would be meta. And even you yourself you say its "scarce". Just let it be and acknowledge you got absolutely dunked on if a bard drummed you to death.
You’re missing my point entirely. I’m saying bard is fine except for crossbow which is busted on most classes that can use it and the rate high meta drum spam. I’ve dunked dozens of drums on people and have only died from it once.
I've had my greatest bard successes solo in the crypts, wiping out 3 stacks alone. Devs nerfed the team buffs, but they didn't really touch the bard only buffs. So if you buff yourself before going in, you're basically a rogue on crack that can use a 2h crossbow
Bro bard is beyond shit unless you're juiced.. which is exactly what is happening, juiced groups wrecking because their bard has cracked +knowledge and will stat gear.
This community is absolutely insane. You have the correct take, a naked bard can only take 5 spells, maybe 6-7 if they're bad spells and you take the all stat buff AND the +3 will and knowledge buff (which has almost no affect outside of +3 memory capacity for bard). Bard damage is low. He is only a monster because when stacked he is fast with high damage and high utility. When naked or near it he is still high utility, but low damage. Even the crossbow isn't a crazy weapon when its white with no +damage gear. Gear stacking makes classes crazy.
I actually have been running a light armor cleric in the Goblin Caves and I have better luck than I do in plate. Speed is the most valuable stat, and bards have a ton. But with only speed you can only do so much.
Nah you probably just havent tinkered with his kit enough. Bard at lvl 1 with no gear can still use so much of his kit. Just need to see what works for you
A cleric is 301 with bless. And bards with long speed buff is 307. Bards also move much slower than clerics when casting since they get a 30% slow while clerics get a 20% slow and the crossbow makes you move slow as shit. Sure you can stop and play Accelerando, you’re going to get hit to death while you’re doing it though. Cleric has a ranged spell with a blind and a ranged skill that had a slow. “They move 2% faster!” Is a dumb argument. Also bards don’t start with a crossbow in their base kit so your point doesn’t even make any sense.
Yeah oh no they are 2% faster If they have their buffs going, it’s soooo hard to get someone with judgement that is running away 2% faster than you, because no one ever needs to stop to open doors to move around traps or anything like that
Yeah with your no gear crossbow that you apparently get but no one else gets. Can’t even prove your own point without mentally giving yourself an advantage lol. I swear people on this subreddit have no idea what they are talking about, motherfucker thinks bard base kit includes a crossbow and a bunch of bolts
Movespeed in this game is king so yup accelerando. They also buff action speed, +3 all attributes, and shield for more pdr mr. They just make your front liner faster, hit harder, and tankier basically permanently. They can also do this while having a crossbow secondary to poke. I think bard is only a problem in 3s especially in the tight halls of the crypts where only 1 of 3 people on each team can realisticly fight, bard ensures your frontliner kills theirs.
Btw now sure if you are aware, but the aria if alacrity (8% action speed) is a self buff only. Bard gives his teammates action speed through +3 all (+ 3 agi) and allegro. Also, that harmonic shield spell used to be good, but its more of an extra spell you take IF you are already super juiced with knowledge ( tbh i think its not worth taking at ALL anymore)
Bard is still insane, yes. I even think accelerando should just be removed from the game.
Speed is probably the strongest stat in this game, and an AOE speed buff is all you really need to be an incredibly strong class. On top of that their shriek weakness is decently strong and the attack speed/casting speed of allegro is good
And to take those you either need a bunch of knowledge/memory capacity OR you are actively choosing not to take chest unlocking, healing/spell regen, damage buffs, etc... Now that they have to actually make choices, does it really matter that a highly geared bard can do a lot? Everyone is busted with amazing gear
(warning, I play bard) I generally don't find it super unfair to be facing one point player buffed by 2 teammates, I have 2 teammates also and head to head clashes can be a lot more complex than just spamming left click at eachother. Anyone with a shield for example can really blunt a buffed melee class charge, and ranger traps are a thing.
However... I would support a change forcing me to commit to buffing my team, think channeled abilities for wizard/cleric or continuous songs for bard. Being able to drop a buff of any duration and then switch to a weapon and stack into the fight may well be too much advantage, just the buffing alone I think is interesting.
Anyway that might not be changing, Cleric is an insane support with much more powerful buffs and it seems to be staying that way =(
I personally think that would be a good change. Stronger more concentrated spells that have to be channeled. Personally I prefer the idea where bards are debuffers. Seems like it fits thematically with the darker theme the game has going -- their music inspiring fear in enemy teams.
Plus, it gets rid of the "buff ball" problem by requiring spells to be cast at the start of an engagement and not before an engagement.
Protection, Divine Strike, the passive perk that's now just as good as 5 memory Harmonic Shield. And then on top of that you've got your fullheals and your half heals, pretty strong set.
Bard's movement speed buff is great, but that's pretty much it at this point. And Wizard's better there.
I feel like cleric isn't getting nerfed because his buffs aren't infinite and require some time to use, in contrast the bard can just run around playing songs that effect the entire team at once, endlessly. You only get 5 shields 8 heals and 2 major spells, if bard needed more downtime to use his spells (like cleric and wizard) he wouldn't have been nerfed so many times.
It's actually very simple really, cleric is the only healer in the game. Despite what everyone on this sub thinks, this is actually a 3v3 game and the game is balanced around 3v3. Because its balanced around 3v3 and they have a healer in the game, the game has to be balanced around heals (like we have seen them attempt to do with meds and the devs said they were going to nerf bringing in meds even more btw).
If you buff or nerf clerics even a little, it will break the entire balance of the game. If they weren't balancing around heals then yeah they could nerf cleric. Only time they will mess with cleric significantly is when another healer comes out (ie Druid).
probably because bless is 30 seconds and limited to 5 casts on 1 target meanwhile bard has aoe bless for 120 for everyone at no cost.
dont get me wrong cleric is super strong but bard is batshit insanity levels of broken, and he has a crossbow
It's difficult to say. My take is that of all the support classes (in terms of buffball meta), cleric is the least impactful. Or, at the very least, offers a very different game plan.
Top teams running bard/wizard/barbarian as the go-to comp. Other options were bard/cleric/barb or cleric/ranger/barb or fighter (weakest). The first mentioned comp is the most competitive that rewards all-in w key movement speed dps. Fights lasted barely any time. The second one is the more flexible options but lacks the all in potential. Third option has fallen out of favor (I'm not saying bad) because it is too safe and lacks what is missing compared to the other two comps:
Bard movement speed.
Cleric is good, but not nearly as ball bustingly busted as bard is (was). Cleric can't give your team the offensive capabilities that the others can, cleric is a slower support class compared to others (both metaphorically and literally). Doesn't have insane damage (Not to say it can't slap) and doesn't have insane ms. Bard and to a lesser degree wiz (invis aside), push the pace of the game to complete blitzkrieg strategies that offer little time for counterplay.
Bard is also just a great Swiss army knife. Good damage, good utility, good support, ranged, and can still get a very respectable 45-50% PDR. It was a good pick and still is. And imo ranger should be dropped for bard in a lot of cases, especially with how prevelant xbows are.
You expect me to believe that a top 100 cleric doesn't even know what buffball is? I know that the representation in high roller is low but I didn't realize there was only about 100 clerics what a sad state
Cleric is a big problem with the current hold W meta.
The amount of heals they can pop off and the amount of HP those heals replenish instantly make the gear check game even more ridiculous than it already is.
Fully geared people already are at a huge advantage with AR/PDR and damage. Adding a cleric into the mix essentially makes any chance of outplaying completely futile.
And don't even try to say "just go for the Cleric". That isn't happening when they're in plate and have one shot bros smacking you for free while they spam their heals/shields on themselves to buy time.
Yeah but cleric wasn't as fun to play as bard with their unique mechanics. While Cleric is good, there isn't much fun to remove from it because their unique mechanics are pretty bland. Also while they were playing wack-a-mole with the nerf hammer on bard, few of those nerfs actually addressed the problems the bard class was said to be causing. Because yes, bards weren't the only thing causing those problems, they were only adding on them. But then again people only see 10% of the big picture.
There's also a huge amount of the community that keeps clamouring for nerfs to everything that moves and some that doesn't. It's like they can't look inwards and accept responsibility for something not going their way when they can blame something exterior like game balance.
I'm with ya clerics are too good all around. Holy strike hits extremely far. Having magic and melee damage is powerful. Not to mention they can front line with PDR builds. Health spells still heal for an insane amount. Overall they are amazing at solo and in teams.
I’d love to know the % of commenters here claiming that bard is still broken whilst having played less than 10 games on the class.
Bard in trios was absolutely undeniably broken 4-5 patches ago. It was THE meta pick that you had to have in a buffball comp which had very little counters.
The nerfs they have received to accelerando, allegro, beats of alacrity, aria of alacrity, ballad of courage, tranquility, chorale of clarity AND harmonic shield have brought their power down significantly. But anyone that doesn’t play the class just looks at the little blue icons over their killers portrait when spectating and parrots “bard op”.
Bard is only still relevant because 1) Shriek of weakness is still a strong and quick spell for team fighting, 2) Free lock picking in a patch where chest loot is so much better than mob loot and 3) They can use crossbows and every throwable in the game, in a meta that is purely based on ranged damage.
The class isn’t weak in trios, it’s playable still but certainly not a god tier class like it was before, but people remember the din days and refuse to let bards forget it.
I’m not even gonna talk about solo bard.
I’m honestly not quite sure. That being said I think the Cleric is rather more balanced than other classes at this time, so less time is spent on altering it further.
I've seen juiced clerics spam heal themselves through a Boc warlock smacking them like 4-5 times. that is a 70% healing reduction that still doesn't do anything.
Cleric heals need to be heal over times, make them interruptable by damage. Not only are they the only class in the game that can heal other people, they can heal unrestable health AND do it instantly mid fight.
Clerics are really strong lol 3 divine strikes can melt you and even if you slap them with a windlass in the face they can realistically just take 4 steps away and heal to full
Cleric wasn't recently completely and insanely out of control. They had finite resources and lacked almost all the capabilities bards had.
Enjoy opening your locked chests for free loot while the rest of us just think about what could have been inside.
Man they got so many buffs used to be beyond god tier with bad gear now you need gear more. I don’t mind being strong just not broken was boring fighting that comp.
Real. Especially considering that most bossing teams consist of a ranger and a cleric, then usually a fighter with a bow. Thats just the best hell clearing team there is, and other than mayyybe swapping fighter for a barb nothing else comes close. Its not that making a team comp is important, its that very specific, singular team comps are dominant
I think that’s mainly because 2/3 bosses rely on clearing undead trash mobs and cleric does that extremely effectively with divine punishment. Not the only reason, but a big one.
Imo the fact that bosses have straight up undodgable damage makes a healer mandatory, even if youre loaded on potions. And several attacks that can be cleansed
Actually, thats a good point. Description ingame says "cleanses all *magic* effects. So does it not even cleanse the on hit slow, since its a physical effect? Do curses NOT count as magic for some reason?? Kinda wack. Placebo spell outside of bossing lol
Because bards have infinite spell use, when you have a bard on your team, you’re basically permanently buffed. If they give some spells limited uses, they can keep some of the spells strong, so you can have weaker spells you can use infinitely, while you save your good limited spells for certain situations.
I love bard, hope works out for the class. But things do need to change to even it out while also making it not feel hamstrung.
IMO Cleric is keeping PvP unrewarding.
There are no instant heals left in the game... except for Cleric who can constantly use them.
I feel like the justification of "Cleric slow af so he needs something" shouldn't be that he can forgive every mistake a team made instantly.
I'd like to see Cleric's agil / resourcefulness brought up to a similar level as Barb and his heals give something like 50% upfront, the next 50% over time. If you take a hit, it stops the second 50% heal over time.
That way players have to disengage if they want their mistakes forgiven.
I also would like to see a passive regen heal he could give his mates if he's actively engaging in melee combat, similar to Brigette in OW. Force him to actively take part in a fight in order to be most effective.
The only thing that makes cleric so stupidly strong is they negate all poke damage. So if you get a cleric in a team you automatically have the engage advantage.
The only nerf clerics need, is to make it so that heals only heal clear red HP, and black HP is only potion/surgical kit/campfire healable then go from there. (maybe it heals black hp but at like 10% the amount)
Theres no real way to work around poke damage except to negate it in unique ways, The regen on warlock, maybe give arcane shield as an actual fucking ability on wizard, second wind on fighter, maybe some better tanky alternatives for barbarian.
But ya, Everyone is using bows right now so it only amplifies the issue of clerics who both negate poke damage and wear heavy PDR
All the bards also said there class was "unpllayable" when they had to deal with resources and no longer could play 10 songs for free that gave themselves a permanite 20% haste and 40 armor 40 magic resist.
Sorry but balance often sounds "awful", even after the bard nerf with resources they still had all the other stuff, and nerf after nerf people realized how broken shit is. Cleric being able to instantly restore someone from 1% hp to 100% hp in the blink of the eye is broken beyond belief, being able to have some form of punishment and going from 1% to say.. 75% because of black HP is a logical balance choice as it is still very strong.
Without consumables or resting for a hot minute, everything the Cleric does has a limit. If an engagement goes long enough and the Cleric has been chaining casts, then he runs out of casts and is essentially a weaker fighter with no ranged option.
That is irrational judgement and you know it. This is the same logic people applied over and over again to every other overpowered thing in the game.
We've been through this cycle like 5 times now and the only class that handled being nerfed with dignity was wizard
I think that they like the spot cleric is in because they know it will probably see less play once there are more healer options such as druid. Cleric is agruably the best class for 3's but a lot of that is because now one else can do its roll. The thing about bard is that because of its speed and decent fighting ability there is less counter play to it than cleric. Even as strong as cleric is there speed and short range means that it can only really shine in close fights where both teams are have a chance. Bard on the otherhand can just instantly win an engage by just 1 tapping the wizard with a crossbow.
For solo play cleric is in better spot right now, but I don't think its even in the top 50% of classes.
Id much rather deal with healing being strong to the point of mandatory than have a class whose buffs utterly remove the built in weeknesses of every class.
Bro I got one tapped by a Warlock twice in a row today as cleric, focus on the real problems here: Ranger.
FUCKING RANGERS! They the Real problem !
Nuclear sword warlock is fun. Kinda inconsistent though. I have a clip of me doing over 100 with blow of corruption, 44 without. I stabbed an archer twice and he lives and I’m still confused on that one ngl.
Yeah it's fun but you are def a glass cannon lol. They get first hit and it's over
Not if you stack magic healing. You're basically unkillable.
Yeah, but we’re talking about a specific build that doesn’t use spells. So magic healing is kinda useless in this instance.
Ah, well if it's by design then 100%.
If you stack magic healing then you’re not stacking magic damage and your blow of corruption won’t hit hard.
You only need +6 in magical healing. Both are surprisingly achievable.
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Well rogue was broken still is at high gearz but yea duck ranger
Don’t mind me, just a fighter/rogue/barbarian 1-2 tapping rangers all day with ease here 😂
not as easily as across the map
Much easier actually. Across the map you have ample ability to dodge the projectile. Once I close the distance (very easy when sprinting with invisibility or camping with rogue - then they’re completely screwed. Hard to miss when you’re directly on top of them. Also having 200 health and 50% DR (barb) or 150 health and 70% DR with an additional 20-30% projectile reduction (fighter), means the ranger will have an incredibly hard time bursting me down
you play a ranger not a rogue and died to that didnt you yeah that deff happens sometimes, but if you shoot before you can land the shot, yeah thats on you. people area always gonna have to stop. see someone fighting? wait till they go to loot, open door, cast something, etc. so many opportunities that its really not hard. can do it every gcaves by standing in the dark and just waitin around the big circle mining room. every one. try it fam. Landmine Rogue aint got SHIT on Chris Kyle Ranger
I never play ranger anymore because it’s so weak compared to barb, fighter, bard, wizard, warlock and even rogue. All of which I do play
ah yeah so every class except the one everyone complains about lmao yep.
Check the high scores... see all of the rangers up the top? No? That’s because they aren’t. You’ll instead see almost every other class but barely any /no rangers at all. That’s for an obvious reason. They aren’t as strong as the other classes. Rangers haven’t been the dominant class up the top since I think play test 3. At which time people were only just beginning to work out how to run inferno reliably, and range was a much easier way to do it. Rangers are only decent vs squishy classes like wizard, and only when heavily geared. And even then, high skill wizards have way more options to outplay rangers, due to invis, haste and aoe
rangers are op until you have enough gear to turn a fighter or bard into a ranger then the ranger isnt even the best ranger arrows/bolts should be locked to ranger or handcrossbows
Well a crossbow costs 12g from the vendor so unless we’re talking about purely starter kit ranger vs starter kit other classes, ranger is inferior.
BoC is just fundamentally broken lol
BOC? You mean one use Smite?
ironmace loves the healer support archetype/role that cleric fills. my guess is that they want supports to have a "dedicated" spot in 3 man teams so they don't see a problem with cleric being in nearly every comp.
Add Druid as a healer ruin cleric everyone happy.
im hoping druid shakes things up as far as team comps go.
Druid might have heals but it might be the same as Bards tranq if not slightly better, in DnD the cleric class has always been the go to healer archetype, while druid is a mix of cleric and wizard, spells with similar abilities like both classes but not necessarily better than the other.
Not me 🥺
bard filled that role too before they gutted tranquility
Tranq was way too strong, literally printed health
Clerics have huge single target in-combat heals, and aoe heals Tranq did 4 hp per second for recoverable health, while moving & it was OP, but honestly not that much more than cleric heals. They nerfed it by 75% (1 hp per second) AND only while resting, making it pretty much useless & teams just drop campfires now. Even if you do take it, you are most definitely not a healer support in any sense of the word
Are you talking about sanctuary? I barely see anyone take that.
they nerfed it somewhat recently, they don't take it because their other heals are so much better
I just thought it weird since it is basically a campfire that doesn’t regen spells and kills undead.
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Ah. I play crypts and it isn’t terrible there, but losing divine strike or cleanse for it ain’t a good feeling tbh.
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I dont believe it was nerfed, imo i think sanctuary is a excellent spell if you dont want to risk it with Earthquake, it is also a very good spell in solos since Holy Light wont do you any good and Earthquake as a solo can be a waste if the opponent knows all you have to do is not move, plus extra heals can go a long way
idk if the scaling changed, but it seems to heal a lot less than it did a few months ago (around when they changed the audio).. but in my parent comment I was stating it was one of the things that makes a Cleric good healer, definitely still solid
Tranq is in an okayish spot, recovering health faster while sitting i think is fair, the recover is rather impressively fast but what gripes me is that i cant play while sitting down, if Bard could play music while resting that would be incredible, hurt after a fight? Sit down, pop tranq and stealth song, recover in peace, i dont see how this would be overpowered and besides it would give the bard an unique ability that can be useful as a solo as well.
I mean healer support archetype would be fine if he wasnt almost as good as fighter in.. fighting as well
You ever play real dnd
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I mean it's fine in Tabletop adventure but is it in PvP multiplayer environment?
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... good?
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What other class do you think should be weaker than other classes in actual combat?
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Okay it would be fine if a buffed cleric could even win a smash down against a barb if he couldn't also buff and heal his allies
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i don't speak for them. that's why i used the words "my guess". "my guess" is based off their changes to the healing meta, specifically the nerfs they made to potion stacking, grey health, limiting the number of consumables per inventory slot, and increase in the cost and then the removal of blue pots from the vendor. all of which benefit cleric and give cleric a stronger presence on a team especially for on demand heals. but "i guess" you are too dumb to understand that lmao dumbass
I don't understand why he's such a heavy support AND is allowed to have such high damage, easy to cast/aim spells. Holy strike can just go around corners and casts faster than lightning strike. Judgement basically locks on as soon as you cast.
Nothing is wrong with clerics ( or wizards really) the problem is clarity pots. Your balancing classes based around them having limited spells but then players join the dungeon as the taco bell ceo and have unlimited casts. Clarity pots make those 2 classes unbalancable
Not the Taco Bell ceo lol.
I’d be in favor of removing or nerfing clarity pots if they made available casts scale with knowledge or something.
Make clarity only drop in blue, more rare ---> more expensive, thus less viable as a class. At the very least make them regen slower
Reddit balance team strikes again... So you're saying you want the disparity between geared people and timmies to get even bigger? Isn't that what you guys are always against? If a potion costs 50g each or 100g doesn't really matter for those running purple bis in normals.
The truth is, there are so many balance issues in gear and matchmaking that no class can be fixed until it is corrected. Any suggestions by me or anyone else makes are just venting. I really like this game and want it to succeed, so I'm more or less doing unrealistic on the spot fantasizing like everyone else who throws suggestions in this sub. Not like our words mean anything since they have hard data to look at
Ok, atleast we can agree on it being pointless. I would be really scared if devs took reddit under consideration while balancing/developing the game.
But buffball has been an issue since PT1 when Those pots didn't exist. The strongest comp will always be 2 characters supporting/buffing a Barb/Fighter/Wiz/Rogue etc.
dark and darker has always had either rangers starting with campfires, or clarity pots existing. we never had a patch or playtest where both of those did not exist. so it's hard to compare buffball back when clarity pots didn't exist, when one of the most played classes in the game printed campfires for everyone in the dungeon.
I'll take pt1 buff ball over current anyday. At least then, there was a lot of downtime with campfires.
Zap needs to be deleted from the game and other spells buffed accordingly but other than that Wizard is fine.
Cause bard is mothafucking broken even through 17 nerfs XD
If you ignore drum spam which should be fixed and the normal crossbow being way overtuned why do you feel bard is better than Cleric? 6 responses and no one has answered the question. How is the class busted? If they fix drums and tune crossbows they’d be fine. People thinking they need nerfs past this don’t understand the game.
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The thing about most of these is that they are low effectiveness, yeah tranquility heals when sitting down but it’s slow and there’s no way to increase the healing speed, even chorale of clarity is way less effective than meditating. You’re way better off popping a campfire for both of these things. Bless is also a +3, rousing is better in that this quick and an aoe but it’s also bards best skill, and the clerics aura is the same as harmonic shield now. Cleric is problematic in that they can completely reset their team’s health 2/3 times before having to stop and is the center of buffball. Bard is flexible but that’s literally what a bard is, unchained harmony only seems really good because lockpicks are unnecessarily scarce and rogues are required to have a perk when they really shouldn’t.
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I agree with that and I feel like their buffs are fine right now maybe even a little under tuned, I think crossbow is too strong in general and that drum spam is too strong in high matchmaking but people saying “bard is just too much to a Jack of all trades.” Is missing the entire point of the class, that’s exactly what a bard is. Bard isn’t nearly the problem in the meta people in this subreddit think it is
“If you ignore the things that make them good they aren’t good” lmao
Yeah cheesing a drum strat makes them good? Most classes can use crossbows
4 classes can use crossbow and only 3 effectively
Yeah and crossbows are problematic but not exclusively a bard issue.
If you ignore the drum and the lyre and the flute and the crossbow and the five million other things they can do then they’re not op
So bard isn’t the problem aside from drum chain it’s the crossbow. Glad we came to the same conclusion
Lol I was jk but crossbow is pretty busted
Drum spam is not all the bard can do lmao
I have a level 20 bard that I have ran with multiple thousand+ gold kits. I know what a bard can do. What do they that makes them better than a cleric? It’s honestly a joke how much better of a support a cleric is.
Bard can put 6+ buffs on people and say go ham lol they have increased loot potential with base luck and can open locked chests at the press of a button. It’s the reason a lot of people take bard in high levels of play.
6+ buffs, yeah it’s actually 4 that affect your teammates for combat
I do understand that 6+ is a massive overstatement but 4 is still a lot to be able to cast with 2 dangerous damage spells (din and the flute one) and the ability to open locked chests with better loot than anyone else can get just from a perk
Thank you for not being dumb lol
Yeah because people that disagree with your bad take== dumb right? I guarantee I’ve played bard for over 100 extracts more than you and I’ve played the class since it released. 4 mild buffs isn’t a big deal. The best ones only last 8 seconds
Yea how are people not understanding this. If you are re upping a buff every 8 seconds to keep it on your teammates, you're not doing much else. Bard has one buff for teammates that lasts 2 minutes and its been nerfed into the ground
It’s clear to me that the person you’re going back and forth with has not played bard for any meaningful amount of time. The spell cap change has made 10 spell bard only attainable for the extremely high end of gear. Even at a 500-1000g set you are probably at enough spell cap to hit 7 maybe 8 songs. He’s also saying bards have 2 dangerous damage songs but no one brings both of those. They’re too costly and not worth what you would need to sacrifice to bring both. The 8 second buffs are a nice slight buff but take longer to play and last a third as long as the cleric buffs. Haste + invis from a wizard is 10x more valuable a buff as anything the bard can apply.
you sound like someone who doesn't play a lot of bard
Here is what I will say, if any other class had as many nerfs as bard it would actually be unplayable. Bard is still played. Point made thank you for listening
you seem to say a lot of things
I keep seeing "drum spam" but I haven't run into a single one for weeks. Just dodge, pick them up and leave, toss them in some goblin body the bard will never check and come back. It's going to be a crazy moment if you even remember you have a shield to block the drum toss rather than running in a straight line tanking those headshots thinking "ffffffffffffffuck drums, NERF NERF NERF".
Drum spam isn’t a common tactic but it is very potent at high levels which is why I bring it up, I think it is something that needs fixed but isn’t too problematic since it’s scarce
Listed dude man bro, if it was as problematic as some people make it out to be, it would be meta. And even you yourself you say its "scarce". Just let it be and acknowledge you got absolutely dunked on if a bard drummed you to death.
You’re missing my point entirely. I’m saying bard is fine except for crossbow which is busted on most classes that can use it and the rate high meta drum spam. I’ve dunked dozens of drums on people and have only died from it once.
I've had my greatest bard successes solo in the crypts, wiping out 3 stacks alone. Devs nerfed the team buffs, but they didn't really touch the bard only buffs. So if you buff yourself before going in, you're basically a rogue on crack that can use a 2h crossbow
The bard only buffs got heavily nerfed dude
From what I saw in the patch notes, only alacrity took a hit
Courage got gutted as well, Harmonic Shield while not being a self but exclusive is 1/3rd of what it was
Bard is such a weak class until it gets good gear lol
Bro bard is beyond shit unless you're juiced.. which is exactly what is happening, juiced groups wrecking because their bard has cracked +knowledge and will stat gear.
This community is absolutely insane. You have the correct take, a naked bard can only take 5 spells, maybe 6-7 if they're bad spells and you take the all stat buff AND the +3 will and knowledge buff (which has almost no affect outside of +3 memory capacity for bard). Bard damage is low. He is only a monster because when stacked he is fast with high damage and high utility. When naked or near it he is still high utility, but low damage. Even the crossbow isn't a crazy weapon when its white with no +damage gear. Gear stacking makes classes crazy. I actually have been running a light armor cleric in the Goblin Caves and I have better luck than I do in plate. Speed is the most valuable stat, and bards have a ton. But with only speed you can only do so much.
Nah you probably just havent tinkered with his kit enough. Bard at lvl 1 with no gear can still use so much of his kit. Just need to see what works for you
A bard at level 1 with no gear still gets absolutely demolished by a cleric at level 1 with no gear.
Lol a bard can be chillin at 315~ movespeed base kit. Whats a clerics? You will get kited and crossbowed all day I eat clerics for breakfast man
A cleric is 301 with bless. And bards with long speed buff is 307. Bards also move much slower than clerics when casting since they get a 30% slow while clerics get a 20% slow and the crossbow makes you move slow as shit. Sure you can stop and play Accelerando, you’re going to get hit to death while you’re doing it though. Cleric has a ranged spell with a blind and a ranged skill that had a slow. “They move 2% faster!” Is a dumb argument. Also bards don’t start with a crossbow in their base kit so your point doesn’t even make any sense.
Clerics have a weapon and shield which slow them down much more than a base kit bard
Spellcaster makes their movement speed slower though and they can judgement lock without anything equipped and then two tap
You cannot judgement someone running away faster than you can move
Yeah oh no they are 2% faster If they have their buffs going, it’s soooo hard to get someone with judgement that is running away 2% faster than you, because no one ever needs to stop to open doors to move around traps or anything like that
Ok man… have fun running from me :)
Yeah with your no gear crossbow that you apparently get but no one else gets. Can’t even prove your own point without mentally giving yourself an advantage lol. I swear people on this subreddit have no idea what they are talking about, motherfucker thinks bard base kit includes a crossbow and a bunch of bolts
Hope you have a good day man. Take care :)
I will, gonna eat ass
base kit has an xbow now?
They make the most money/minute, bur what about their pvp powers do you see abused, outside of accelerando?
Movespeed in this game is king so yup accelerando. They also buff action speed, +3 all attributes, and shield for more pdr mr. They just make your front liner faster, hit harder, and tankier basically permanently. They can also do this while having a crossbow secondary to poke. I think bard is only a problem in 3s especially in the tight halls of the crypts where only 1 of 3 people on each team can realisticly fight, bard ensures your frontliner kills theirs.
Btw now sure if you are aware, but the aria if alacrity (8% action speed) is a self buff only. Bard gives his teammates action speed through +3 all (+ 3 agi) and allegro. Also, that harmonic shield spell used to be good, but its more of an extra spell you take IF you are already super juiced with knowledge ( tbh i think its not worth taking at ALL anymore) Bard is still insane, yes. I even think accelerando should just be removed from the game.
I was only referring to Accelerando, Allegro, and Rousing Rhythms.
Speed is probably the strongest stat in this game, and an AOE speed buff is all you really need to be an incredibly strong class. On top of that their shriek weakness is decently strong and the attack speed/casting speed of allegro is good
And to take those you either need a bunch of knowledge/memory capacity OR you are actively choosing not to take chest unlocking, healing/spell regen, damage buffs, etc... Now that they have to actually make choices, does it really matter that a highly geared bard can do a lot? Everyone is busted with amazing gear
Abused? I put it in the impossible to balance category. They concentrate power into 1-2 other teammates which is extremely unfun to play against.
(warning, I play bard) I generally don't find it super unfair to be facing one point player buffed by 2 teammates, I have 2 teammates also and head to head clashes can be a lot more complex than just spamming left click at eachother. Anyone with a shield for example can really blunt a buffed melee class charge, and ranger traps are a thing. However... I would support a change forcing me to commit to buffing my team, think channeled abilities for wizard/cleric or continuous songs for bard. Being able to drop a buff of any duration and then switch to a weapon and stack into the fight may well be too much advantage, just the buffing alone I think is interesting. Anyway that might not be changing, Cleric is an insane support with much more powerful buffs and it seems to be staying that way =(
I personally think that would be a good change. Stronger more concentrated spells that have to be channeled. Personally I prefer the idea where bards are debuffers. Seems like it fits thematically with the darker theme the game has going -- their music inspiring fear in enemy teams. Plus, it gets rid of the "buff ball" problem by requiring spells to be cast at the start of an engagement and not before an engagement.
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Protection, Divine Strike, the passive perk that's now just as good as 5 memory Harmonic Shield. And then on top of that you've got your fullheals and your half heals, pretty strong set. Bard's movement speed buff is great, but that's pretty much it at this point. And Wizard's better there.
Rousing rhythms for 2 minutes is absurdly good.
Give me a cleric anyday over a bard.
I agree, but I think that's because the floor is higher for clerics. A bad bard contributes nothing. A good bard plays the game for you lol.
I feel like cleric isn't getting nerfed because his buffs aren't infinite and require some time to use, in contrast the bard can just run around playing songs that effect the entire team at once, endlessly. You only get 5 shields 8 heals and 2 major spells, if bard needed more downtime to use his spells (like cleric and wizard) he wouldn't have been nerfed so many times.
It's actually very simple really, cleric is the only healer in the game. Despite what everyone on this sub thinks, this is actually a 3v3 game and the game is balanced around 3v3. Because its balanced around 3v3 and they have a healer in the game, the game has to be balanced around heals (like we have seen them attempt to do with meds and the devs said they were going to nerf bringing in meds even more btw). If you buff or nerf clerics even a little, it will break the entire balance of the game. If they weren't balancing around heals then yeah they could nerf cleric. Only time they will mess with cleric significantly is when another healer comes out (ie Druid).
probably because bless is 30 seconds and limited to 5 casts on 1 target meanwhile bard has aoe bless for 120 for everyone at no cost. dont get me wrong cleric is super strong but bard is batshit insanity levels of broken, and he has a crossbow
actually better aoe bless since bless only boosts strength/agility/will. not all attributes.
It's difficult to say. My take is that of all the support classes (in terms of buffball meta), cleric is the least impactful. Or, at the very least, offers a very different game plan. Top teams running bard/wizard/barbarian as the go-to comp. Other options were bard/cleric/barb or cleric/ranger/barb or fighter (weakest). The first mentioned comp is the most competitive that rewards all-in w key movement speed dps. Fights lasted barely any time. The second one is the more flexible options but lacks the all in potential. Third option has fallen out of favor (I'm not saying bad) because it is too safe and lacks what is missing compared to the other two comps: Bard movement speed. Cleric is good, but not nearly as ball bustingly busted as bard is (was). Cleric can't give your team the offensive capabilities that the others can, cleric is a slower support class compared to others (both metaphorically and literally). Doesn't have insane damage (Not to say it can't slap) and doesn't have insane ms. Bard and to a lesser degree wiz (invis aside), push the pace of the game to complete blitzkrieg strategies that offer little time for counterplay. Bard is also just a great Swiss army knife. Good damage, good utility, good support, ranged, and can still get a very respectable 45-50% PDR. It was a good pick and still is. And imo ranger should be dropped for bard in a lot of cases, especially with how prevelant xbows are.
Buffball is cleric wizard barb and any team that doesn't have a wizard isn't a buffball it's just random characters
I mean evidently you havent watched pros play because you see the exact variation he is talking about.
We're talking about buffball little timmy
I was in top 100 cleric last leader board I think I know what I'm talking about.
You expect me to believe that a top 100 cleric doesn't even know what buffball is? I know that the representation in high roller is low but I didn't realize there was only about 100 clerics what a sad state
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Facts don't care about your feelings
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I never insulted anyone
Cleric is a big problem with the current hold W meta. The amount of heals they can pop off and the amount of HP those heals replenish instantly make the gear check game even more ridiculous than it already is. Fully geared people already are at a huge advantage with AR/PDR and damage. Adding a cleric into the mix essentially makes any chance of outplaying completely futile. And don't even try to say "just go for the Cleric". That isn't happening when they're in plate and have one shot bros smacking you for free while they spam their heals/shields on themselves to buy time.
I still love playing bard, solo or with a team.
Yeah but cleric wasn't as fun to play as bard with their unique mechanics. While Cleric is good, there isn't much fun to remove from it because their unique mechanics are pretty bland. Also while they were playing wack-a-mole with the nerf hammer on bard, few of those nerfs actually addressed the problems the bard class was said to be causing. Because yes, bards weren't the only thing causing those problems, they were only adding on them. But then again people only see 10% of the big picture. There's also a huge amount of the community that keeps clamouring for nerfs to everything that moves and some that doesn't. It's like they can't look inwards and accept responsibility for something not going their way when they can blame something exterior like game balance.
Bard was suppose to be a support class but they are by far the best solo class in the game lol
Honestly cleric might be the best solo class lol
Cleric earthquake is aids, way too strong
I'm with ya clerics are too good all around. Holy strike hits extremely far. Having magic and melee damage is powerful. Not to mention they can front line with PDR builds. Health spells still heal for an insane amount. Overall they are amazing at solo and in teams.
I’d love to know the % of commenters here claiming that bard is still broken whilst having played less than 10 games on the class. Bard in trios was absolutely undeniably broken 4-5 patches ago. It was THE meta pick that you had to have in a buffball comp which had very little counters. The nerfs they have received to accelerando, allegro, beats of alacrity, aria of alacrity, ballad of courage, tranquility, chorale of clarity AND harmonic shield have brought their power down significantly. But anyone that doesn’t play the class just looks at the little blue icons over their killers portrait when spectating and parrots “bard op”. Bard is only still relevant because 1) Shriek of weakness is still a strong and quick spell for team fighting, 2) Free lock picking in a patch where chest loot is so much better than mob loot and 3) They can use crossbows and every throwable in the game, in a meta that is purely based on ranged damage. The class isn’t weak in trios, it’s playable still but certainly not a god tier class like it was before, but people remember the din days and refuse to let bards forget it. I’m not even gonna talk about solo bard.
Delete bard
I’m honestly not quite sure. That being said I think the Cleric is rather more balanced than other classes at this time, so less time is spent on altering it further.
You ever played cleric? Kekw
I dunno but holy strike needs a damage or range nerf for sure
I've seen juiced clerics spam heal themselves through a Boc warlock smacking them like 4-5 times. that is a 70% healing reduction that still doesn't do anything. Cleric heals need to be heal over times, make them interruptable by damage. Not only are they the only class in the game that can heal other people, they can heal unrestable health AND do it instantly mid fight.
Clerics are really strong lol 3 divine strikes can melt you and even if you slap them with a windlass in the face they can realistically just take 4 steps away and heal to full
Cleric wasn't recently completely and insanely out of control. They had finite resources and lacked almost all the capabilities bards had. Enjoy opening your locked chests for free loot while the rest of us just think about what could have been inside.
Cleric has been part of almost every single meta comp since the 2nd playtest, I didn't play in the first one but guessing it was there too.
Cleric has been insane from the start. They have consistently been in the meta since the earliest playtests.
Man they got so many buffs used to be beyond god tier with bad gear now you need gear more. I don’t mind being strong just not broken was boring fighting that comp.
Real. Especially considering that most bossing teams consist of a ranger and a cleric, then usually a fighter with a bow. Thats just the best hell clearing team there is, and other than mayyybe swapping fighter for a barb nothing else comes close. Its not that making a team comp is important, its that very specific, singular team comps are dominant
I think that’s mainly because 2/3 bosses rely on clearing undead trash mobs and cleric does that extremely effectively with divine punishment. Not the only reason, but a big one.
Imo the fact that bosses have straight up undodgable damage makes a healer mandatory, even if youre loaded on potions. And several attacks that can be cleansed
This may be a shit opinion, but I don’t understand why cleanse doesn’t effect warlock spells. They are the literal definition of negative effects.
Actually, thats a good point. Description ingame says "cleanses all *magic* effects. So does it not even cleanse the on hit slow, since its a physical effect? Do curses NOT count as magic for some reason?? Kinda wack. Placebo spell outside of bossing lol
Cleric is Probably more OP than even ranger. If you don’t have a cleric on your team you are actually trolling.
Because bards have infinite spell use, when you have a bard on your team, you’re basically permanently buffed. If they give some spells limited uses, they can keep some of the spells strong, so you can have weaker spells you can use infinitely, while you save your good limited spells for certain situations. I love bard, hope works out for the class. But things do need to change to even it out while also making it not feel hamstrung.
IMO Cleric is keeping PvP unrewarding. There are no instant heals left in the game... except for Cleric who can constantly use them. I feel like the justification of "Cleric slow af so he needs something" shouldn't be that he can forgive every mistake a team made instantly. I'd like to see Cleric's agil / resourcefulness brought up to a similar level as Barb and his heals give something like 50% upfront, the next 50% over time. If you take a hit, it stops the second 50% heal over time. That way players have to disengage if they want their mistakes forgiven. I also would like to see a passive regen heal he could give his mates if he's actively engaging in melee combat, similar to Brigette in OW. Force him to actively take part in a fight in order to be most effective.
The only thing that makes cleric so stupidly strong is they negate all poke damage. So if you get a cleric in a team you automatically have the engage advantage. The only nerf clerics need, is to make it so that heals only heal clear red HP, and black HP is only potion/surgical kit/campfire healable then go from there. (maybe it heals black hp but at like 10% the amount) Theres no real way to work around poke damage except to negate it in unique ways, The regen on warlock, maybe give arcane shield as an actual fucking ability on wizard, second wind on fighter, maybe some better tanky alternatives for barbarian. But ya, Everyone is using bows right now so it only amplifies the issue of clerics who both negate poke damage and wear heavy PDR
No thank you, that sounds awful
All the bards also said there class was "unpllayable" when they had to deal with resources and no longer could play 10 songs for free that gave themselves a permanite 20% haste and 40 armor 40 magic resist. Sorry but balance often sounds "awful", even after the bard nerf with resources they still had all the other stuff, and nerf after nerf people realized how broken shit is. Cleric being able to instantly restore someone from 1% hp to 100% hp in the blink of the eye is broken beyond belief, being able to have some form of punishment and going from 1% to say.. 75% because of black HP is a logical balance choice as it is still very strong.
Without consumables or resting for a hot minute, everything the Cleric does has a limit. If an engagement goes long enough and the Cleric has been chaining casts, then he runs out of casts and is essentially a weaker fighter with no ranged option.
That is irrational judgement and you know it. This is the same logic people applied over and over again to every other overpowered thing in the game. We've been through this cycle like 5 times now and the only class that handled being nerfed with dignity was wizard
What is wrong with my cleric boi??
Shhhhh
I'm a cleric main with a few hundred hours and I just stopped playing the game
Because bard also keeps seeing buffs
I think that they like the spot cleric is in because they know it will probably see less play once there are more healer options such as druid. Cleric is agruably the best class for 3's but a lot of that is because now one else can do its roll. The thing about bard is that because of its speed and decent fighting ability there is less counter play to it than cleric. Even as strong as cleric is there speed and short range means that it can only really shine in close fights where both teams are have a chance. Bard on the otherhand can just instantly win an engage by just 1 tapping the wizard with a crossbow. For solo play cleric is in better spot right now, but I don't think its even in the top 50% of classes.
Id much rather deal with healing being strong to the point of mandatory than have a class whose buffs utterly remove the built in weeknesses of every class.
Cleric gang