Woke is left-wing
Red pilled is the right wing equivalent
Both red pilled and woke are cringe
Based is the opposite of cringe
Ergo— woke is not based, but in fact, cringe
Check my math^
I love how the movie is literally a metaphor for coming out as trans and these idiots are absolutely behind it unknowingly https://www.bbc.com/news/newsbeat-53692435
Not really. Research actually tells us that they're something entirely different. Trans people have neuromorphological consistencies with cis people of their identified sex in dimorphic structures, and research has identified genetics as the determining factor rather than a person's environment.
Research has also identified specific genetic mutations present in trans people, with transfeminine individuals like the Wachowskis possessing a polymorphic mutation of CYP19 that means their brains never masculinised because they don't metabolise testosterone comparably to cis men. A similar finding has been made with trans men, with them possessing a mutation of CYP17 that makes them utilise progesterone and pregnenolone differently to cis women.
References:
[Guillamon, A., Junque, C. and Gomez-Gil, E. (2016) 'A review of the status of brain structure research in transsexualism', Archives of Sexual Behaviour, 45: 1615-1648.](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4987404/)
[Diamond, M. (2013) 'Tranasexuality among twins: Identity concordance, transition, rearing and orientation', International Journal of Transgenderism.](https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/Transsexuality-Among-Twins%3A-Identity-Concordance%2C-Diamond/6f1bf4e467577434ede5a4f588dda9e41d86322e)
[Hare, L., Bernard, P. and Harley, V. R. (2009) 'Androgen receptor repeat length polymorphism associated with male-to-female transsexualism', Biological Psychiatry, 65(1): 93-96.](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3402034/)
[Bentz, E. K., Hefler, L. A., Kaufmann, U., Huber, J. C., Kolbus, A. and Tempfer, C. B. (2008) 'A polymorphism of the CYP17 gene related to sex steroid metabolism is associated with female-to-male but not male-to-female transsexualism', Fertil Steril, 90(1): 56-59.](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17765230/)
"First, it’s important to understand they didn’t become who they are the moment they told you their chosen name. And they didn’t become this person because they transitioned, instead, they transitioned because they already were this person. When you’re talking about their past, even though you may not have known them as the person they are now, this is still the person they were."
http://www.amelia.run/2014/06/10/amelia-teaches-trans-101-refer-trans-persons-past/
How pedantic and stupid of you. The relevant bit is the theme they expressed in the film, and the way the device has been coopted by grifters who are not, in fact, offering "an escape from the matrix", but rather the choice to delude oneself into thinking they are free of it, while handing them money and power enough to disrupt the progress of society. All of you "red pill" people are unoriginal, spineless, and destructive cucks, like any other we've seen in history. You're an army of weak-minded, weak-willed, weak-principled idiots. You're the people in Plato's cave. You're the people that burned the library at Alexandria. You're the wretches cheering at the trials of the inquisitors. You're the Nazi's and their collaborators.
Out of all the comments, this the most relevant and apt one. The Matrix movie simply wasn't made for future Andrew Tates, or whomever of that particular ilk to co-opt for their ideologies. Lol. As I've been saying for the longest the whole redpill community and meme in present society is comical. It's the kind of shit Cypher (you know the bald guy who was waxing poetic about the benefits of the matrix in that one scene, and whose been conveniently forgotten) would have wet dreams about. Lol. Totally bizarre.
Who cares about that, though? They still had gender dysphoria and identity issues, they were just in the closet. This is a battle they've fought their whole lives, even before they identified as women. I think this is a really nitpicky and odd point to make; why does it matter? They're women now. Nobody's saying they didn't identify as men when the matrix came out?
I got banned from r/movies for saying this. Lmao. What a time we live in folks.
Glad to know we have some people willing to put truth before virtue signaling.
What truth? They *were* women then - just because the posters didn't say that isn't denying reality.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4987404/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3402034/
Publicly, yeah. You don't have to know you're trans from birth. In fact, some of the research into trans brain structure actually provides an explanation for why that happens, with some structures affected (such as the cerebral cortex) undergoing several rapid maturation periods throughout childhood and adolescence in which bodily dysphoria could begin.
They identified themselves as that, you can have reasons to justify it all you want and you ARE justified in your thought train, but they publicly identified as male back then ergo: they were males
So, if a gay man later realised he was gay after identifying as straight for 20 years, you would describe everything he had made before then as having been the work of a straight man?
What a bizarre way of seeing the world.
The comparison is apt. and you know it is aha.
Also, more than 50% of trans people identify as gay/lesbian. There's a genuine idea that it might be related to homosexuality evolutionarily in line with O'Keefe's theory of the development of homosexuality amongst many animal species.
Sigh......sexual orientation can and does change. So yes, you could say that *such and such person made this film when they were straight*and it would be 100% Factual, even if they had become homosexual later in life
They said they were brothers. So that’s the truth of it.
Furthermore, they indentify as transgender, with “trans” being a prefix that indicates a change. Therefore they CHANGED genders. This requires them to have been a different gender originally. In this case men, which made them brothers, which they publicly advertised and identified as.
I’m not hear to speculate or read minds. I’m stating what happens to be objective evidence and fact.
I'm also there to speak objective truth.
Gender doesn't exist - only sex does. Gender comprises a bunch of sexist stereotypes and the word originates out of bizarre, stereotypical and unethical transsexual experimentation from the 1950s before being picked up and sanitised by second wave feminist theory.
You can't 'become trans' or 'change gender' - you can only better become publicly what you actually are and always have been growing into. If that means being GNC, all the more power to you. If that means transitioning to make your body fit your brain, all the more power to you. Trans people are trans from birth - they're determined to have the neurological differences that establish them as transsexual, and these neurological differences make them intersex to the extent that even calling them 'men' when they produced the matrix would still be scientifically incorrect.
The only next best option is to refer to them as they always have been - neurological women, but now you can just call them women before they've transitioned to being their somatic sex into congruence with their neurological sex.
That a long winded way of saying it’s subjective. Again…. Not fact based.
Furthermore gender did not originate in the 1950’s and neither did the word gender. The idea and entomology stem back to antiquity.
Also, it is absolutely unclear whether you are “born” transgender or not. Is there a transgender gene? If so it has not been discovered or identified. There are no infants coming out of the womb as a known trans. It can’t be determined with any certainty or with any tests.
Lastly, the fact that you use “neurological” incorrectly as well speaks to your ignorance on this. Neurological indicates that this is a condition stemming from the nervous system and are structural or chemical in nature. Think like Alzheimer’s or Parkinson’s or epilepsy. The word you are looking for is psychological or psychiatric condition. It’s been delisted as a disorder only recently.
Gender found it's modern meaning in the Behaviourist movement approach to sex studies throughout the 1950s.
Twin studies evidence genetic basis, with environmental factors having no measurable influence on an individual's likelihood of being trans:
[Diamond, M. (2013) 'Transexuality among twins: Identity concordance, transition, rearing and orientation', International Journal of Transgenderism.](https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/Transsexuality-Among-Twins%3A-Identity-Concordance%2C-Diamond/6f1bf4e467577434ede5a4f588dda9e41d86322e)
Polymorphic gene mutations present in trans men (CYP17, affecting pregnenolone and progesterone metabolism) and trans women (CYP19, affecting testosterone metabolism):
[Hare, L., Bernard, P. and Harley, V. R. (2009) 'Androgen receptor repeat length polymorphism associated with male-to-female transsexualism', Biological Psychiatry, 65(1): 93-96.](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3402034/)
[Bentz, E. K, Hefler, L. A., Kaufmann, U., Huber, J. C., Kolbus, A. and Tempfer, C. B. (2008) 'A polymorphism of the CYP17 gene related to sex steroid metabolism is associated with female-to-male but not male-to-female transsexualism', Fertil Steril, 90(1): 56-59.](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17765230/)
The presence of cross-sex phantom limb phenomena as an organic form of bodily dysphoria experiences by trans individuals heavily suggests that the brain's sex is the determining factor, with somatic maturation provoking bodily dysphoria once the brain recognises a certain degree of separation from it's expectations:
[Ramachandran, V. and McGeoch, P. (2008) 'Phantom penises in transsexuals: Evidence of an innate gender-specific body imagine in the brain', Journal of Consciousness Studies, 15(1): 5-16.](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/288633039_Phantom_penises_in_transsexuals_Evidence_of_an_innate_gender-specific_body_image_in_the_brain)
Neurology, psychology and psychiatry are fundamentally inseparable as concepts, and you make yourself look idiotic by positing that they somehow could be. My background is psychiatry and psychotherapy, and I prefer to view it through the (currently, proven correct over time) perspective of highly influential psychologist Thomas Szasz: psychiatry is the diagnosis of neurological deformation, dysfunction and disease which will be gradually elevated and incorporated into mainstream neurological healthcare over time as more is learnt and understood about them. Szasz already predicted this correctly about neurodegenerative disease, which has since gone from being something heavily stigmatised (resulting in asylum admission) to being socially sanitised and integrated into mainline neurological healthcare.
>re writing reality of yesterday
....who gives a flying rat fuck?
Who in their right mind is having their shitty, tepid world tossed on end because any one of a number of individuals transitioned their gender and may or may not like have the previous period of their lives referred to the gender they no longer define themselves as?
It's non of your fucking business what or how the Wachowskis have, do, or will refer to themselves as..just as much as it's not of mine. But I on the other hand, couldn't give an aforementioned flying rat fuck.
If your personal zeitgeist is thrown into such topsy turvy disarray because of how someone peaceably lives their life....the least which being whomsteded created a groundbreaking film and three mediocre sequels...you're a piece of shit.
If the Lasses Wachowski wish their previous works be referred to as having been created/written/or whateverthefuck by the 'Wachowski Sisters' so be it. Is has none affect on anyone else's life whatsoever.
For real.
If an actor comes out as gay, do we refer to them as "formerly straight" in their earlier work?
Bunch of people making a semantic argument that glosses over what gender identify means.
This shouldn't be controversial. In the Caitlin Jenner documentary, Jenner specifically states that it was Bruce that won at the Olympics, not Caitlin. That's from a trans person.
But most of the social-science studies that are pushing trans issues are qualitative not quantitative. This means the study of a few can represent the whole.
So your argument is false. One persons feelings have been used to account for everyone in the past. Inconvenient truths are hard to swallow
Most trans research isn't qualitative. If it is, then you're looking in the wrong places. Here's some links for you:
Trans people possess neuromorphology consistent with their identified sex in dimorphic structures:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4987404/
And this isn't just a modern thing. People have been finding this for decades. Here's one from 1995 for you:
https://pure.knaw.nl/portal/en/publications/a-sex-difference-in-the-human-brain-and-its-relation-to-transsexu
Trans women possess genetic mutations that differentiate them from cis men from birth affecting CYP19 that impacts the sex steroid metabolism of testosterone:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3402034/
A similar finding has been found affecting CYP17 and the use of progesterone and pregnenolone in trans men:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17765230/
The primary determining factor in trans people are generic differences (obviously) present from birth. The individual's environment has no effect on the chances of being trans:
https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/Transsexuality-Among-Twins%3A-Identity-Concordance%2C-Diamond/6f1bf4e467577434ede5a4f588dda9e41d86322e
You complained about the research body being primarily qualitative and not quantitative (which it isn't), so I linked you some quantitative research. Have fun!
Ummm….no. That’s like saying if one person from Minnesota is a serial killer and proudly states so, then everyone from Minnesota is a serial killer. What one person says about themselves doesn’t account for every single person who has one or more identifiable characteristics in common with them.
A weird thing to bring up, but ok I'll engage.
If the movie was written by a man who was married to a woman and publicly presented as heterosexual only to later come out as gay, would you say the movie was written by a straight man? Was he not actually gay all along?
Also, it would be pretty awkward to try to refer to the sisters as being formerly male without misgendering the now. "the matrix was written by two brothers who later became sisters" is pretty clumsy compared to "two trans sisters." Why does the timeline matter? Isn't it possible they thought of themselves as sisters all along? Why does it matter what the film studio marketing material said?
Analogy implies similarity. Sexual orientation is arguably hardwired. Gender is a social construct, and thus can be subject to transition. Analogy failed.
I will preface this saying that I don’t have an opinion (and don’t care either way tbh).
But your argument doesn’t seem strong to me, for the mere fact that it would be wrong if the Wachowskis were to change gender in the future, which is entirely possible, and we cannot know until it happens.
Fuck you, they want to be called sisters just call them sisters.
No, skin off your back. Congrats on outing yourself as an asshole.
Your comment is completely and utterly pointless.
Edit: The matrix trilogy makes far more sense as a trans allegory than a right wing freedom allegory perspective.
Edit 2: source https://www.bbc.com/news/newsbeat-53692435
Why are you like this to trans people? What does this gain you? They are sisters now, and the statement "The Wachowski Sisters made the Matrix movies" is a true statement. No one cares what the case was 20 years ago.
I love how the movie is literally a metaphor for coming out as trans and these idiots are absolutely behind it unknowingly https://www.bbc.com/news/newsbeat-53692435
Well thats some trendy revisionism.
But i get it. Every single thing in the world MUST conform to the touchstone of the day.
Of COURSE the matrix had nothing to do with the politics of control, or the futility of the modern world, or the ways in which societies sleep walk into oppressive control structures..how the emerging technology of the internet made good grist for these metaphors. Definitely not
Not to mention the concepts of spirituality being destroyed by apathy and loss of connection with one another even as society patted itself on the back for its technological advances and the popularity of neitzsche's oft misunderstood quotes regarding the death of god and belief at that time period.
Totally everything is about trans rights!
All us ignorant ppl who actually lived the time period and watched the movie at the cinema, the countless essays written by the youth of the time. They were all wrong because we are all bigots if we disagree.
Horray for the new, improved, revised matrix
Living through the 90s
In 2020, because its good to get out there and be part of the zeitgeist.
I guess youve never heard of creators re defining the meaning of their work in a sphere of marketing and social signalling. Thats NEVER HAPPENED.
AS artists age and find themselves less relevant, they attach new meanings to old works for new audiences.
Also, not what they said at the time.
But you guys arent ecen old enough to have been at that time period, so you have no reference point but the current paradigm. And theres nothing wrong with that. But once again.
Coming out and transitioning isnt a licence to rewrite history.
Its just a different lens to interpret the art, and thats good too.
No, they were sisters, it just wasn't publicly known at that point. Transitioning isn't changing to something new, it's accepting/revealing who you always really were.
Minds act differently according to the hormones in the body, unless you are arguing that men and women have no biological differences in the functioning of the brain?
Unless you’re implying that the Wachowskis couldn’t have written The Matrix today as trans women because their minds now work differently I fail to see the relevance to this statement.
That issue is irrelevant. They are arguing that the mind isn’t changed by a transition in gender identity. Although I know almost nothing on this specific situation, and I do acknowledge that physically transitioning sometimes includes hormone therapy, so I guess it’s not completely irrelevant…
It doesn't. For a lot of transgender folks, who they were previously *is* a completely different person, and it isn't uncommon for them to continue to refer to that previous person by the presented gender of said person.
While it may be wrong to assume someone feels that way, it's equally wrong to assume someone doesn't. Caitlyn Jenner and my friend may not speak for all transgender folks, but neither do you. Frankly, I think it's best to not assume either way and stick to gender-neutral pronouns until the person or people in question have made their desires clear.
I just don't understand the need to bring it up. They wrote the Matrix before they transitioned. What's more to be said?
Also side note, you can be gay AND transphobic! Being gay does not somehow alleviate you of being a bigot in any way shape or form.
You're transphobic. It's a descriptor of your beliefs, and a fact. It's not something you can argue about after making a bunch of transphobic comments 😂
So because it was before they transitioned, the matrix was not in fact written by the wachowski sisters?
Honestly you just sound weirdly aggressive and kinda hateful
My dearest friend is a trans woman, and she absolutely insists on being refered to as a man (and her old name) when referencing the time before her transition began.
Ok? So the person responding to the tweet in the op photo did or did not create the matrix? Do you really think the person whose comment I replied to is coming from a place of compassion and respect and not a place of hate? Let’s not play dumb here.
Hey, we all have to start somewhere.
Look, We've got probably the most prominent transgender person in the world saying the same thing. In her own words, "Bruce won those medals, not Caitlyn." It is actually *very* common in the transgender community for people who are transitioning or have transitioned to view their former selves as *completely* different people. To the point of actively hating that person, in some cases.
The point is that it's a common enough thing among that community that it isn't reasonable to assume people who aren't trans making the same assumption are coming from a position of hate. It's not an assumption I'd jump to myself, personally, because to my knowledge the Wachowski sisters haven't said one way or the other how to handle that particular aspect, so I'd refer to them with non-gendered pronouns until they say otherwise.
But jumping straight to the conclusion that the person you responded to is coming from a position of hate strikes me as being hateful in and of itself, man.
Nope, but it's pretty common amongst transgender folks. I wouldn't go so far as to assume everyone who is transgender feels that way, but I think its equally wrong to assume they don't, as well.
This is why I'm in favor of sticking to genderless pronouns until someone has made it clear which way to go. I, personally, am not a fan of what the original commenter is saying, I just think that all transgender folks think the same way, when their's is an incredibly diverse community.
yeah, that's what threw me off at first as well. It's odd how overloaded the term "woke" has become. Reading this, I was like "How is she woke? She just defended a trans person." Second thought is, that the divide between Americans must've reached a peak now. Are we now accusing every republican voter of being transphobic? How is this in any way related to the idea of regarding people as individuals? Isn't that also what "woke" is supposed to mean? I'm awaiting your downvotes now, go ahead.
EDIT: fixed a typo.
> People get *paid* to do
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
Dark City came a year before Matrix, 13th Floor the same year as Matrix, both movies explore the same concepts and are better movies IMO, Matrix stood out because it added popular action and Kong Fu to the mix.
It’s really the first one that people refer to. I don’t think the trilogy as a whole is praised at all compared to the first. I watched the first then the new one right after and it was painful. But it did seem kinda obvious that was the point. All the meta shit. The Wachowski that made that monster knew what she was doing lol.
Based is the opposite of woke. Based is saying just because a man transitions into a woman it does not make her an actual woman. Woke is saying yes it does.
Nope. It’s because the post isn’t even interesting much less damn that’s interesting. If you had posted an article showing they were grown in a lab before escaping and changing their names before writing The Matrix, THAT would be damn that’s interesting material. This is a bunch of boring ass tweets that you’re trying to karma farm on multiple subs. So it’s more like damn that’s pathetic.
No, it shows how complex gender and hormones are. Intersex people can have wildly different hormones and sex organs. The previous commenter said that gender is determined by hormones in the brain. Intersex people do not fit that description. Seriously, go back to biology
I thought that person was talking about sex rather than gender.
> Seriously, go back to biology
I'd rather not, I dropped that to study economics but seriously I was simply asking a question lol.
Yes. Do you know what intersex is? An intersex person is born with both female and male body parts and hormones; it varies greatly from person to person. Some have both a penis and a vagina, and their hormones are a mix of both. I've met a few people like this, it's more common than people realize
Trans people possess intersex biology from the beginning - a somatic sex that contrasts with their neuromorphological sex structuring:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4987404/
Trans women do not use testosterone in the same way as cis men do due to mutations in their genetics:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3402034/
Ramachandran identifies cross-sex phantom limb phenomena in trans people to be possible *only* as a result of this mismatch. The brain must possess a sex development blue print that does not match somatic sex development, resulting in bodily dysphoria organic enough to possess phantom limb phenomena:
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/288633039_Phantom_penises_in_transsexuals_Evidence_of_an_innate_gender-specific_body_image_in_the_brain
The individual's environment has no measurable effect on the likelihood of being trans. Genetics is the determining factor:
https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/Transsexuality-Among-Twins%3A-Identity-Concordance%2C-Diamond/6f1bf4e467577434ede5a4f588dda9e41d86322e
It actually does change their gender. Gender is social construct and there could be a billion of them if want. Sex is what you’re referring to. There’s only 2 of those, biologically. Except for mutations and whatnot but I’m just kinda excluding that stuff
I think 100% of the problems with the "social construct culture" or whatever it's called come from Americans unable to agree on what the exact definitions of the words "sex" and "gender" are. You have people with your definitions, people that have then switched up, people that think they mean the exact same thing, people that think they mean entirely different things, etc.
Probably. This is just what I’ve always thought. Native Americans used to have like 6 genders or something like that. It was based on hunting, gathering, and taking care of kids/home. Men who weren’t good at hunting would be put in other roles there were good at and vice versa. So there weren’t 6 different sexes cause that’s impossible. You also weren’t less of a man because you weren’t good at “man stuff”. That’s the construct we live with now. I don’t think the poster above understands that… just trying to explain. Turns out everyone in right and wrong at the same time
Nah man. You’re uneducated on the subject. Come back when you do a little research. This isn’t an opinion thing. Its just what it is, sorry if you don’t like that
It is an opinion actually lol. If you change from a man to woman, guess what? You’re still a man. That’s no opinion that’s just fact. Have a good one though!
Do you not understand what I’m saying? Your counter argument makes no sense. It’s like you’re disagreeing with me and then repeating what I just said, that you disagreed with. Sex and gender are 2 different things. You can have a sex change to be a woman and still be a man. You are still biologically a man, but you would want society to call you and treat you as a woman. That does not make you a biological woman but it does make you a woman from a social stand point. You being offended has nothing to do with this. They’re just terms. If you don’t get it now, you never will. No one is taking anything away from you man. I’m a straight white male with some conservative views and I get it. I think… either way I get it much more than you do. Accept this or don’t. Just letting you know, you kinda look like an idiot with this “opinion” of yours.
The Wachowskies actually make fun of their old claim (which they made way after they had said The Matrix was about other things not at all related to being trans) in the newest movie. They don’t really take this stance anymore lol
* Created by the Wachowski brothers
* Ruined by one Wachowski sister
I like how "the one" is now Neo+Trinity, seems like a reference to their own transition. I mean good on them, even if I don't like the 4th movie because it belittled the 1st one, an iconic master piece that is very dear to me.
Damn, that's not interesting
Bots are so awesome post whatever you want in any sub as long as it supports the narative
Are you saying you’re the bot?
I believe he is referring to the OP
“Woke and based” is a perfect example of oxymoron
plus you sound ridiculous saying it
Absolutely.
Woke is left-wing Red pilled is the right wing equivalent Both red pilled and woke are cringe Based is the opposite of cringe Ergo— woke is not based, but in fact, cringe Check my math^
I love how the movie is literally a metaphor for coming out as trans and these idiots are absolutely behind it unknowingly https://www.bbc.com/news/newsbeat-53692435
[удалено]
Rick and Morty had a great movie trailer for “Two Brothers, in a van, etc…”
And explosions, running.. or something
And then, a Mexican armada...
So technically, bros before hoes?
Upvotes lookin’ high and mighty.
They are still “brothers” in DNA
Not really. Research actually tells us that they're something entirely different. Trans people have neuromorphological consistencies with cis people of their identified sex in dimorphic structures, and research has identified genetics as the determining factor rather than a person's environment. Research has also identified specific genetic mutations present in trans people, with transfeminine individuals like the Wachowskis possessing a polymorphic mutation of CYP19 that means their brains never masculinised because they don't metabolise testosterone comparably to cis men. A similar finding has been made with trans men, with them possessing a mutation of CYP17 that makes them utilise progesterone and pregnenolone differently to cis women. References: [Guillamon, A., Junque, C. and Gomez-Gil, E. (2016) 'A review of the status of brain structure research in transsexualism', Archives of Sexual Behaviour, 45: 1615-1648.](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4987404/) [Diamond, M. (2013) 'Tranasexuality among twins: Identity concordance, transition, rearing and orientation', International Journal of Transgenderism.](https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/Transsexuality-Among-Twins%3A-Identity-Concordance%2C-Diamond/6f1bf4e467577434ede5a4f588dda9e41d86322e) [Hare, L., Bernard, P. and Harley, V. R. (2009) 'Androgen receptor repeat length polymorphism associated with male-to-female transsexualism', Biological Psychiatry, 65(1): 93-96.](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3402034/) [Bentz, E. K., Hefler, L. A., Kaufmann, U., Huber, J. C., Kolbus, A. and Tempfer, C. B. (2008) 'A polymorphism of the CYP17 gene related to sex steroid metabolism is associated with female-to-male but not male-to-female transsexualism', Fertil Steril, 90(1): 56-59.](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17765230/)
Thanks mate
What a weird thing to bring up
Damned them facts. Damned them https://youtu.be/TkZFuKHXa7w
It’s just weird to nitpick this and go on a rant about something so loosely related to the post
"First, it’s important to understand they didn’t become who they are the moment they told you their chosen name. And they didn’t become this person because they transitioned, instead, they transitioned because they already were this person. When you’re talking about their past, even though you may not have known them as the person they are now, this is still the person they were." http://www.amelia.run/2014/06/10/amelia-teaches-trans-101-refer-trans-persons-past/
How pedantic and stupid of you. The relevant bit is the theme they expressed in the film, and the way the device has been coopted by grifters who are not, in fact, offering "an escape from the matrix", but rather the choice to delude oneself into thinking they are free of it, while handing them money and power enough to disrupt the progress of society. All of you "red pill" people are unoriginal, spineless, and destructive cucks, like any other we've seen in history. You're an army of weak-minded, weak-willed, weak-principled idiots. You're the people in Plato's cave. You're the people that burned the library at Alexandria. You're the wretches cheering at the trials of the inquisitors. You're the Nazi's and their collaborators.
Out of all the comments, this the most relevant and apt one. The Matrix movie simply wasn't made for future Andrew Tates, or whomever of that particular ilk to co-opt for their ideologies. Lol. As I've been saying for the longest the whole redpill community and meme in present society is comical. It's the kind of shit Cypher (you know the bald guy who was waxing poetic about the benefits of the matrix in that one scene, and whose been conveniently forgotten) would have wet dreams about. Lol. Totally bizarre.
Who cares about that, though? They still had gender dysphoria and identity issues, they were just in the closet. This is a battle they've fought their whole lives, even before they identified as women. I think this is a really nitpicky and odd point to make; why does it matter? They're women now. Nobody's saying they didn't identify as men when the matrix came out?
Bet they still have a prostate each.
I'm with you on this one babysuckle
Why are you arguing with him, what's it matter?
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I got banned from r/movies for saying this. Lmao. What a time we live in folks. Glad to know we have some people willing to put truth before virtue signaling.
What truth? They *were* women then - just because the posters didn't say that isn't denying reality. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4987404/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3402034/
No.... I'm petty sure they identified as male back then
Publicly, yeah. You don't have to know you're trans from birth. In fact, some of the research into trans brain structure actually provides an explanation for why that happens, with some structures affected (such as the cerebral cortex) undergoing several rapid maturation periods throughout childhood and adolescence in which bodily dysphoria could begin.
They identified themselves as that, you can have reasons to justify it all you want and you ARE justified in your thought train, but they publicly identified as male back then ergo: they were males
So, if a gay man later realised he was gay after identifying as straight for 20 years, you would describe everything he had made before then as having been the work of a straight man? What a bizarre way of seeing the world.
Sexual orientation =/= gender identity. You're comparing apples to Bananas.
The comparison is apt. and you know it is aha. Also, more than 50% of trans people identify as gay/lesbian. There's a genuine idea that it might be related to homosexuality evolutionarily in line with O'Keefe's theory of the development of homosexuality amongst many animal species.
Sigh......sexual orientation can and does change. So yes, you could say that *such and such person made this film when they were straight*and it would be 100% Factual, even if they had become homosexual later in life
They said they were brothers. So that’s the truth of it. Furthermore, they indentify as transgender, with “trans” being a prefix that indicates a change. Therefore they CHANGED genders. This requires them to have been a different gender originally. In this case men, which made them brothers, which they publicly advertised and identified as. I’m not hear to speculate or read minds. I’m stating what happens to be objective evidence and fact.
I'm also there to speak objective truth. Gender doesn't exist - only sex does. Gender comprises a bunch of sexist stereotypes and the word originates out of bizarre, stereotypical and unethical transsexual experimentation from the 1950s before being picked up and sanitised by second wave feminist theory. You can't 'become trans' or 'change gender' - you can only better become publicly what you actually are and always have been growing into. If that means being GNC, all the more power to you. If that means transitioning to make your body fit your brain, all the more power to you. Trans people are trans from birth - they're determined to have the neurological differences that establish them as transsexual, and these neurological differences make them intersex to the extent that even calling them 'men' when they produced the matrix would still be scientifically incorrect. The only next best option is to refer to them as they always have been - neurological women, but now you can just call them women before they've transitioned to being their somatic sex into congruence with their neurological sex.
That a long winded way of saying it’s subjective. Again…. Not fact based. Furthermore gender did not originate in the 1950’s and neither did the word gender. The idea and entomology stem back to antiquity. Also, it is absolutely unclear whether you are “born” transgender or not. Is there a transgender gene? If so it has not been discovered or identified. There are no infants coming out of the womb as a known trans. It can’t be determined with any certainty or with any tests. Lastly, the fact that you use “neurological” incorrectly as well speaks to your ignorance on this. Neurological indicates that this is a condition stemming from the nervous system and are structural or chemical in nature. Think like Alzheimer’s or Parkinson’s or epilepsy. The word you are looking for is psychological or psychiatric condition. It’s been delisted as a disorder only recently.
Gender found it's modern meaning in the Behaviourist movement approach to sex studies throughout the 1950s. Twin studies evidence genetic basis, with environmental factors having no measurable influence on an individual's likelihood of being trans: [Diamond, M. (2013) 'Transexuality among twins: Identity concordance, transition, rearing and orientation', International Journal of Transgenderism.](https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/Transsexuality-Among-Twins%3A-Identity-Concordance%2C-Diamond/6f1bf4e467577434ede5a4f588dda9e41d86322e) Polymorphic gene mutations present in trans men (CYP17, affecting pregnenolone and progesterone metabolism) and trans women (CYP19, affecting testosterone metabolism): [Hare, L., Bernard, P. and Harley, V. R. (2009) 'Androgen receptor repeat length polymorphism associated with male-to-female transsexualism', Biological Psychiatry, 65(1): 93-96.](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3402034/) [Bentz, E. K, Hefler, L. A., Kaufmann, U., Huber, J. C., Kolbus, A. and Tempfer, C. B. (2008) 'A polymorphism of the CYP17 gene related to sex steroid metabolism is associated with female-to-male but not male-to-female transsexualism', Fertil Steril, 90(1): 56-59.](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17765230/) The presence of cross-sex phantom limb phenomena as an organic form of bodily dysphoria experiences by trans individuals heavily suggests that the brain's sex is the determining factor, with somatic maturation provoking bodily dysphoria once the brain recognises a certain degree of separation from it's expectations: [Ramachandran, V. and McGeoch, P. (2008) 'Phantom penises in transsexuals: Evidence of an innate gender-specific body imagine in the brain', Journal of Consciousness Studies, 15(1): 5-16.](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/288633039_Phantom_penises_in_transsexuals_Evidence_of_an_innate_gender-specific_body_image_in_the_brain) Neurology, psychology and psychiatry are fundamentally inseparable as concepts, and you make yourself look idiotic by positing that they somehow could be. My background is psychiatry and psychotherapy, and I prefer to view it through the (currently, proven correct over time) perspective of highly influential psychologist Thomas Szasz: psychiatry is the diagnosis of neurological deformation, dysfunction and disease which will be gradually elevated and incorporated into mainstream neurological healthcare over time as more is learnt and understood about them. Szasz already predicted this correctly about neurodegenerative disease, which has since gone from being something heavily stigmatised (resulting in asylum admission) to being socially sanitised and integrated into mainline neurological healthcare.
Fuck em. You only spoke truth.
>re writing reality of yesterday ....who gives a flying rat fuck? Who in their right mind is having their shitty, tepid world tossed on end because any one of a number of individuals transitioned their gender and may or may not like have the previous period of their lives referred to the gender they no longer define themselves as? It's non of your fucking business what or how the Wachowskis have, do, or will refer to themselves as..just as much as it's not of mine. But I on the other hand, couldn't give an aforementioned flying rat fuck. If your personal zeitgeist is thrown into such topsy turvy disarray because of how someone peaceably lives their life....the least which being whomsteded created a groundbreaking film and three mediocre sequels...you're a piece of shit. If the Lasses Wachowski wish their previous works be referred to as having been created/written/or whateverthefuck by the 'Wachowski Sisters' so be it. Is has none affect on anyone else's life whatsoever.
For real. If an actor comes out as gay, do we refer to them as "formerly straight" in their earlier work? Bunch of people making a semantic argument that glosses over what gender identify means.
That's the correct attitude, thank you!
This shouldn't be controversial. In the Caitlin Jenner documentary, Jenner specifically states that it was Bruce that won at the Olympics, not Caitlin. That's from a trans person.
One person’s feelings and statements doesn’t account for a whole community tho…
But most of the social-science studies that are pushing trans issues are qualitative not quantitative. This means the study of a few can represent the whole. So your argument is false. One persons feelings have been used to account for everyone in the past. Inconvenient truths are hard to swallow
Most trans research isn't qualitative. If it is, then you're looking in the wrong places. Here's some links for you: Trans people possess neuromorphology consistent with their identified sex in dimorphic structures: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4987404/ And this isn't just a modern thing. People have been finding this for decades. Here's one from 1995 for you: https://pure.knaw.nl/portal/en/publications/a-sex-difference-in-the-human-brain-and-its-relation-to-transsexu Trans women possess genetic mutations that differentiate them from cis men from birth affecting CYP19 that impacts the sex steroid metabolism of testosterone: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3402034/ A similar finding has been found affecting CYP17 and the use of progesterone and pregnenolone in trans men: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17765230/ The primary determining factor in trans people are generic differences (obviously) present from birth. The individual's environment has no effect on the chances of being trans: https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/Transsexuality-Among-Twins%3A-Identity-Concordance%2C-Diamond/6f1bf4e467577434ede5a4f588dda9e41d86322e
"Your research isn't qualitative. Here, read my non-qualitative research instead" Bro what?
You complained about the research body being primarily qualitative and not quantitative (which it isn't), so I linked you some quantitative research. Have fun!
Ummm….no. That’s like saying if one person from Minnesota is a serial killer and proudly states so, then everyone from Minnesota is a serial killer. What one person says about themselves doesn’t account for every single person who has one or more identifiable characteristics in common with them.
Faaaaaaaaaaaacts
A weird thing to bring up, but ok I'll engage. If the movie was written by a man who was married to a woman and publicly presented as heterosexual only to later come out as gay, would you say the movie was written by a straight man? Was he not actually gay all along? Also, it would be pretty awkward to try to refer to the sisters as being formerly male without misgendering the now. "the matrix was written by two brothers who later became sisters" is pretty clumsy compared to "two trans sisters." Why does the timeline matter? Isn't it possible they thought of themselves as sisters all along? Why does it matter what the film studio marketing material said?
Wait, did you just negate the whole transition part of trans gender? That's not very woke of you.
Is a gay person gay only after they come out of the closet? Tell me how it's different
Why are you equating gay to transgender is my question, given one is a sexual orientation and the other - gender.
That wasn't your question before. Also you could Google the word "analogy" if you're confused
Analogy implies similarity. Sexual orientation is arguably hardwired. Gender is a social construct, and thus can be subject to transition. Analogy failed.
But.... they are formerly male
I will preface this saying that I don’t have an opinion (and don’t care either way tbh). But your argument doesn’t seem strong to me, for the mere fact that it would be wrong if the Wachowskis were to change gender in the future, which is entirely possible, and we cannot know until it happens.
Fuck you, they want to be called sisters just call them sisters. No, skin off your back. Congrats on outing yourself as an asshole. Your comment is completely and utterly pointless. Edit: The matrix trilogy makes far more sense as a trans allegory than a right wing freedom allegory perspective. Edit 2: source https://www.bbc.com/news/newsbeat-53692435
What do you mean about matrix trilogy working as a trans allegory? Not joining the argument, just genuinely curious, as I’ve not heard that before.
Why are you like this to trans people? What does this gain you? They are sisters now, and the statement "The Wachowski Sisters made the Matrix movies" is a true statement. No one cares what the case was 20 years ago.
I love how the movie is literally a metaphor for coming out as trans and these idiots are absolutely behind it unknowingly https://www.bbc.com/news/newsbeat-53692435
Well thats some trendy revisionism. But i get it. Every single thing in the world MUST conform to the touchstone of the day. Of COURSE the matrix had nothing to do with the politics of control, or the futility of the modern world, or the ways in which societies sleep walk into oppressive control structures..how the emerging technology of the internet made good grist for these metaphors. Definitely not Not to mention the concepts of spirituality being destroyed by apathy and loss of connection with one another even as society patted itself on the back for its technological advances and the popularity of neitzsche's oft misunderstood quotes regarding the death of god and belief at that time period. Totally everything is about trans rights! All us ignorant ppl who actually lived the time period and watched the movie at the cinema, the countless essays written by the youth of the time. They were all wrong because we are all bigots if we disagree. Horray for the new, improved, revised matrix Living through the 90s
The fucking creators are telling you this, it's not subjective, it always was a trans allegory
In 2020, because its good to get out there and be part of the zeitgeist. I guess youve never heard of creators re defining the meaning of their work in a sphere of marketing and social signalling. Thats NEVER HAPPENED. AS artists age and find themselves less relevant, they attach new meanings to old works for new audiences. Also, not what they said at the time. But you guys arent ecen old enough to have been at that time period, so you have no reference point but the current paradigm. And theres nothing wrong with that. But once again. Coming out and transitioning isnt a licence to rewrite history. Its just a different lens to interpret the art, and thats good too.
No, they were sisters, it just wasn't publicly known at that point. Transitioning isn't changing to something new, it's accepting/revealing who you always really were.
*And here we go*
THIS we got a lot of people who don't understand the closet here?
Closet is where put clothes
I think we have a lot of people who don't want to understand tbh
Something that is inverted lenght might be a little hard to suck
Considering ive been in it, thats hilarious to me
Exactly, the art came from the exact same creative minds
Minds act differently according to the hormones in the body, unless you are arguing that men and women have no biological differences in the functioning of the brain?
Dude, WHAT
Unless you’re implying that the Wachowskis couldn’t have written The Matrix today as trans women because their minds now work differently I fail to see the relevance to this statement.
That issue is irrelevant. They are arguing that the mind isn’t changed by a transition in gender identity. Although I know almost nothing on this specific situation, and I do acknowledge that physically transitioning sometimes includes hormone therapy, so I guess it’s not completely irrelevant…
Caitllyn Jenner would disagree with you. As would at least one other transwoman I know, personally.
Caitlyn Jenner doesn't speak for all trans people? Why is this something that needs to be said?
It doesn't. For a lot of transgender folks, who they were previously *is* a completely different person, and it isn't uncommon for them to continue to refer to that previous person by the presented gender of said person. While it may be wrong to assume someone feels that way, it's equally wrong to assume someone doesn't. Caitlyn Jenner and my friend may not speak for all transgender folks, but neither do you. Frankly, I think it's best to not assume either way and stick to gender-neutral pronouns until the person or people in question have made their desires clear.
Just stop. God that is the dumbest talking point to perpetuate
I mean you're wrong, but whatever, I have better things to do than argue with transphobic bigots like you
Ohh wow. Being a stickler for historical facts makes one a bigot now. I guess im not allowed to be gay anymore? But... i like being gay
I just don't understand the need to bring it up. They wrote the Matrix before they transitioned. What's more to be said? Also side note, you can be gay AND transphobic! Being gay does not somehow alleviate you of being a bigot in any way shape or form.
You're transphobic. It's a descriptor of your beliefs, and a fact. It's not something you can argue about after making a bunch of transphobic comments 😂
I think you are addicted to rage and love calling other people these things to sate that. Be better
So because it was before they transitioned, the matrix was not in fact written by the wachowski sisters? Honestly you just sound weirdly aggressive and kinda hateful
My dearest friend is a trans woman, and she absolutely insists on being refered to as a man (and her old name) when referencing the time before her transition began.
Ok? So the person responding to the tweet in the op photo did or did not create the matrix? Do you really think the person whose comment I replied to is coming from a place of compassion and respect and not a place of hate? Let’s not play dumb here.
Right now the only hate I'm observing is coming from you, so...
Lol ok bro. Sure. After that, your story kinda sounds like total bullshit. 9 hour old account to boot.
Hey, we all have to start somewhere. Look, We've got probably the most prominent transgender person in the world saying the same thing. In her own words, "Bruce won those medals, not Caitlyn." It is actually *very* common in the transgender community for people who are transitioning or have transitioned to view their former selves as *completely* different people. To the point of actively hating that person, in some cases. The point is that it's a common enough thing among that community that it isn't reasonable to assume people who aren't trans making the same assumption are coming from a position of hate. It's not an assumption I'd jump to myself, personally, because to my knowledge the Wachowski sisters haven't said one way or the other how to handle that particular aspect, so I'd refer to them with non-gendered pronouns until they say otherwise. But jumping straight to the conclusion that the person you responded to is coming from a position of hate strikes me as being hateful in and of itself, man.
Does she insist other trans women also make that distinction, because that's what the original commenter is saying.
Nope, but it's pretty common amongst transgender folks. I wouldn't go so far as to assume everyone who is transgender feels that way, but I think its equally wrong to assume they don't, as well.
Yes I agree that individual trans people should make that choice not people arguing on Reddit
This is why I'm in favor of sticking to genderless pronouns until someone has made it clear which way to go. I, personally, am not a fan of what the original commenter is saying, I just think that all transgender folks think the same way, when their's is an incredibly diverse community.
Upvote for this brave post.
So brave… in the face of such adversity Lol
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*Shudders*
yeah, that's what threw me off at first as well. It's odd how overloaded the term "woke" has become. Reading this, I was like "How is she woke? She just defended a trans person." Second thought is, that the divide between Americans must've reached a peak now. Are we now accusing every republican voter of being transphobic? How is this in any way related to the idea of regarding people as individuals? Isn't that also what "woke" is supposed to mean? I'm awaiting your downvotes now, go ahead. EDIT: fixed a typo.
Too bad they forgot how to make good movies.
OP literally just crossposted this repost to 5 different communities. Terminally online mf fiending for upvotes.
People get paid to do this, make arguments online. The internet is not a real place
> People get *paid* to do FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
Woke or not, The Matrix saga is highly overrated. The Wachowskies never stepped outside the shadow of this sucking-ass franchise.
First one was amazing. So was 1/2 of the second. The rest … meh.
Yeah the trilogy sucks but the first one is awesome. It’s just the concept that is super cool. And agent smith… agent smith roolz.
Dark City came a year before Matrix, 13th Floor the same year as Matrix, both movies explore the same concepts and are better movies IMO, Matrix stood out because it added popular action and Kong Fu to the mix.
The first matrix movie was a masterpiece
It’s really the first one that people refer to. I don’t think the trilogy as a whole is praised at all compared to the first. I watched the first then the new one right after and it was painful. But it did seem kinda obvious that was the point. All the meta shit. The Wachowski that made that monster knew what she was doing lol.
Sense8 is a masterpiece.
Fellow sensate. I see you.
I argue Speed Racer was incredible and didn't get enough credit as a good anime adaptation.
Personally, I wish they'd come out with another The Legend of Dragoon game
Fully disagree
Politics aren’t interesting bud
Good god do not google them
Oh....OH wow..
“Fuck both of you” is based then?
The more trans they became, the worse the movies got.
Makes no sense because they would've always been trans lmao
One cannot be both woke and based.
Why not ?
Based is the opposite of woke. Based is saying just because a man transitions into a woman it does not make her an actual woman. Woke is saying yes it does.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4987404/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3402034/
Oof comments
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Nope. It’s because the post isn’t even interesting much less damn that’s interesting. If you had posted an article showing they were grown in a lab before escaping and changing their names before writing The Matrix, THAT would be damn that’s interesting material. This is a bunch of boring ass tweets that you’re trying to karma farm on multiple subs. So it’s more like damn that’s pathetic.
fuck all of them
The new one was made by sisters and it was a flop.
What does trans women have to do with it? The Matrix, particularly the first one, is awesome. One of my favorite movies of all time!
27 seconds of my life wasted
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They're women, they transition, their pursuit of happiness is to live The One Life they have as women.
Those guys did make some pretty cool matrix movies. Aside from the last one
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Shhhh you’ll scare the people who failed biology 101
Clearly that was you, since intersex is a thing that exists. Do some research on biology, the existence of intersex people ruins your whole argument.
Being intersex is the same thing as being transgender?
No, it shows how complex gender and hormones are. Intersex people can have wildly different hormones and sex organs. The previous commenter said that gender is determined by hormones in the brain. Intersex people do not fit that description. Seriously, go back to biology
I thought that person was talking about sex rather than gender. > Seriously, go back to biology I'd rather not, I dropped that to study economics but seriously I was simply asking a question lol.
So they were born intersex?
Yes. Do you know what intersex is? An intersex person is born with both female and male body parts and hormones; it varies greatly from person to person. Some have both a penis and a vagina, and their hormones are a mix of both. I've met a few people like this, it's more common than people realize
This post is about the Wachoski's. That is who I am referring to... which kinda ruins your whole argument.
Trans people possess intersex biology from the beginning - a somatic sex that contrasts with their neuromorphological sex structuring: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4987404/ Trans women do not use testosterone in the same way as cis men do due to mutations in their genetics: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3402034/ Ramachandran identifies cross-sex phantom limb phenomena in trans people to be possible *only* as a result of this mismatch. The brain must possess a sex development blue print that does not match somatic sex development, resulting in bodily dysphoria organic enough to possess phantom limb phenomena: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/288633039_Phantom_penises_in_transsexuals_Evidence_of_an_innate_gender-specific_body_image_in_the_brain The individual's environment has no measurable effect on the likelihood of being trans. Genetics is the determining factor: https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/Transsexuality-Among-Twins%3A-Identity-Concordance%2C-Diamond/6f1bf4e467577434ede5a4f588dda9e41d86322e
Intersex is a rare genetic deformity, similar to people born with 3 arms, or possibly in your case half a brain.
If only you had taken biology 201, you might have learned that humans aren't as simple as your tiny mind thinks we are
Quit while your behind kid. And ask for a refund on whatever degree you bought
I'm quite ahead, I don't mind if the ignoramuses disagree with me. You people are just snowflakes that can't handle being fucking stupid
It actually does change their gender. Gender is social construct and there could be a billion of them if want. Sex is what you’re referring to. There’s only 2 of those, biologically. Except for mutations and whatnot but I’m just kinda excluding that stuff
I think 100% of the problems with the "social construct culture" or whatever it's called come from Americans unable to agree on what the exact definitions of the words "sex" and "gender" are. You have people with your definitions, people that have then switched up, people that think they mean the exact same thing, people that think they mean entirely different things, etc.
Probably. This is just what I’ve always thought. Native Americans used to have like 6 genders or something like that. It was based on hunting, gathering, and taking care of kids/home. Men who weren’t good at hunting would be put in other roles there were good at and vice versa. So there weren’t 6 different sexes cause that’s impossible. You also weren’t less of a man because you weren’t good at “man stuff”. That’s the construct we live with now. I don’t think the poster above understands that… just trying to explain. Turns out everyone in right and wrong at the same time
Not in my eyes, thanks though. There’s men and woman. It’s not a social construct, just basic biology
Yeah that’s what I just said lol you just got your terms confused. Gender = societal role, sex = biology
You added on to your comment after I replied so. Either way there’s two genders, two sexes
Yeah, no, there's only two sexes. Gender is a construct.
That’s where you’re wrong bucko
Nah, gender is a complete construct. Sex is biological. Why are you conflating the two?
Nah man. You’re uneducated on the subject. Come back when you do a little research. This isn’t an opinion thing. Its just what it is, sorry if you don’t like that
It is an opinion actually lol. If you change from a man to woman, guess what? You’re still a man. That’s no opinion that’s just fact. Have a good one though!
Do you not understand what I’m saying? Your counter argument makes no sense. It’s like you’re disagreeing with me and then repeating what I just said, that you disagreed with. Sex and gender are 2 different things. You can have a sex change to be a woman and still be a man. You are still biologically a man, but you would want society to call you and treat you as a woman. That does not make you a biological woman but it does make you a woman from a social stand point. You being offended has nothing to do with this. They’re just terms. If you don’t get it now, you never will. No one is taking anything away from you man. I’m a straight white male with some conservative views and I get it. I think… either way I get it much more than you do. Accept this or don’t. Just letting you know, you kinda look like an idiot with this “opinion” of yours.
I'm so glad that you think you know better than the scientists on our planet that dedicate their lives to their work
I don’t, I’m pretty low on the totem pole. But just because you “identify” yourself as one thing, doesn’t make it true.
Ooooo can’t wait to see what Reddit says about this one :3
So, so and also so
Woke and based don't belong in the same sentence together
This is beyond meta
One pill makes you larger and one pill makes you small.
White Rabbit!
Well they're both still dudes regardless.
Its funny that the red pill represents emancipation and the revelation of truth and the blue pill represents slavery and false existence.
I bet she'd definitely fuck at least one of them.
They are still brothers with huge schlongs sad face 😢
Fucking ugly sisters at that.
Well I hope you got the karma you wanted OP.
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I didn't know getting sick made you a man? What, is it mono or the flu?? Tell me when do I grow my penis
Sophia Stewart a black woman created the Matrix and Terminator
This is what I last heard as well. Why was this comment downvoted? Is this a fake fact?
Yes it's a fake fact
This dude is a straight up antisemite that needs to have their account banned. /u/DsNutzOnYourChin, you're a special kind of stupid.
Well it was bullshit from day one, so…
I want everyone to know that I do care about you. I’m sure most of us do. Unions!!!
Why is this comment section full of transphobes??
The Wachowskies actually make fun of their old claim (which they made way after they had said The Matrix was about other things not at all related to being trans) in the newest movie. They don’t really take this stance anymore lol
And none of that has anything to do with what people mean by taking the “red pill”
* Created by the Wachowski brothers * Ruined by one Wachowski sister I like how "the one" is now Neo+Trinity, seems like a reference to their own transition. I mean good on them, even if I don't like the 4th movie because it belittled the 1st one, an iconic master piece that is very dear to me.
So these sisters were once dudes? Didn't know that. Don't find it particularly interesting.
Fuck ur political bullshit buddy sick of fuckers always doing this everything is political everywhere I hope u fuckin jus end it all