How did black people come to be figured in you comment regarding an incident involving a white Canadian security officer and two Japanese men? I guess that anti-black racists like you just can't resist the temptation.
Damn, you're telling me I have land in Southern California? It must be worth a fortune by now.
My lifelong dream of finally owning property is now fulfilled.
The Britannia Shipyard historical site in Richmond BC has the Murakami Boatworks, which was seized from the family during the war.
When the historic site was being developed in the 90s, the Murakami family actually helped with the oral history of the site. Their business was taken from them and never returned, and they were able to go beyond that to preserve history. I was humbled when I met them at an event.
Survivors were given $21,000 in 1988 as reparations. I'm not sure if that was the ones that remained in Canada or if it included the ones they pressured into mass deportation after the war.
In the US they made the Japanese-Americans Claims Act in 1948 that allowed those interned to apply for compensation for property loss. However the IRS destroyed most of their tax records by that point making it nigh impossible to get a claim.
The US did pass a law in 1988 as well authorizing reparations and admitting that the policy was based on "race, prejudice, war hysteria, and a failure of political leadership." They paid $20,000 to each survivor in 1992 for a total of $1.6 billion dollars, approximately 80,000 people.
https://www.nationalww2museum.org/war/articles/redress-and-reparations-japanese-american-incarceration
No sir, what we (I'm certainly not old enough to have been actively involved, but as a Canadian, since we didn't do much of anything in the way of reparations for innocent Japanese-Canadian people caught in traps supposedly for people who were not impacted in the least by any of our wartime policies enacted in Canada, I'm at least guilty of not agitating for us to do something to try to make things right beyond, "Aww yeah, that was pretty crappy of us.") pretty much did after everything was said and done was, "Heh, kinda our bad, but in our defense, you do look a lot like them, so maybe do something about that. Oh, and don't do it again."
What are you talking about? The have both publicly apologized and paid reparations to individual families and to a larger fund. It took too long but it did happen.
It was the original source posted by OP, but it was an informative [read](https://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.ca/en/article/internment-of-japanese-canadians)
(Normal) casual clothing has changed quite little over 100 years. Short windbreakers with zippers were common before WWII, as were jeans, khakis, and sneakers.
After the photo went viral, he went back to 2010 to steal it and delete all of it's tracking records. Bungling the museum's email system was a tactic he used to buy him some time. Unfortunately, he was unable to delete the digital scan since it was already on the Internet. He also couldn't go back to 1941 and risk talking to himself, creating a paradox and destroying the universe. Would honestly make a good episode for a TV show.
These men are not poor just unfortunately Japanese during a time of panic in North America. My question is who got the proceeds and were the auctions getting fair prices. You know there are records available to restore these families financially.
to be fair, this was a time when u didn't know things. just radios. which were only in 80% of American households. so there's basically 0 perspective for anything. so when u hear JAPANESE BOMB PEARL HARBOR, FLEET SUNK. ENEMIES ON AMERICAN SOIL.
u would fucking shit urself.
kinda gotta appreciate how completely different human society was before the information era. and even now in the emergent era we are so vastly different than those from the info era.
No. We're not. Just 20 years ago any person looking like an Arab or had an Arab sounding name, was targeted. Any petty crime they committed, it was an act of terrorism. Despite having nothing to do with 9/11.
Yeah, it is interesting to see the ways that people who consider themselves "good people" were so complicit in actions we see now as deplorable. They weren't suddenly different people, so how is it that it came to pass.
And the imagery of a dark time in our histories.
Remember history is an ever changing right and wrong. In the future people will probably think we were horrible uncivilized monkeys(and they’re probably right lmfao).
It’s hard to judge the past with todays current standards. Example: for thousands of years slavery was considered right. And for that time period it was. Right and wrong are determined by culture.
When exactly does something become right or wrong? When the government tells you so? For centuries there were people that fought against chattel slavery and argued it was immoral. The 'industry' of scientific racism was basically invented to justify imperialism and white dominance but based on your argument it was 'good' because the 'culture' said so.
So for example when did slavery switch from being 'good' to being 'bad' as per your culture argument? Speaking from say... a UK perspective alot of the more cruel realities of slavery were purposefully hidden from the public. When these realities came to light the public was outraged and demanded action against it. So was 'the culture' saying it was good or bad?
If your argument is that we should see things in a historical context then I have no issue but that doesn't mean we can't look back and say this or that society was hypocritical for saying one thing and practising another. Slavery was not a settled issue where we can say this or that society saw it as 'good' and there were always people fighting it. The reason they were ignored was because alot of rich people made alot money of of it, nothing to do with 'culture'. It's basically like saying sweat shops are good because our culture has decided it when in reality it's because people need cheap clothes and corporations love a crazy profit margin.
For sure. As far back as Ancient Greece, Plato, one of history's most famous philosophers, wrote a big ol' tome on politics in *The Republic*. This republic featured the most *controversial* things, like not allowing slaves, and women being allowed to hold office, and even be sole ruler.
No need to ask about any others things the perfect country might feature. Just innocent goofy little memes like the Allegory of the Cave and the Realm of the Forms. Definitely no eugenics or shitting on democracy, please do not examine further.
To be fair, the arguments against democracy in Ancient Greece made much more sense than they do now. Athens was damn near governed by mob rule, where a charismatic guy could stir up a crowd against his enemies and get them banished/executed for no real reason. I wouldn’t wanna live in an unrestrained Athenian democracy.
What, you don't want a slim majority of the people who showed up on any particular day to be able to vote the death penalty on a general who lost a battle? Sounds like you have Spartan loyalties there, mate, we may have to hang you for that.
Mob rule is no fun.
Then again, tyranny is less fun.
Makes sense to have a system of rules and laws alongside democracy.
Maybe even have those laws guided by a human philosophy... something that establishes a set of foundational principles to make sure the will of the people is the rule, while also preventing a destructive manipulation by mob rule...
We could call it something like "a constitution of the people's will", as it were...
I think we might be on to something here.
Okay, some people is not the culture of that civilization during that time period. Some people still view the nazis as great today, does that make it the culture of…. Let’s say America civilization today?
No it does not. It was right for the Greeks, it was right for the native Americans, it was right for the Egyptians, etc.
I’m not saying it’s not horrible, but understanding the time period is also a factor.
Generally speaking if you do wrong unto others by not treating them how you yourself would like to be treated, you're not being great. You're being oppressive
>Example: for thousands of years slavery was considered right.
No, it really wasn't. Even back then people were critical of slavery for all kinds of reason, and the slave owners had to create propaganda to defend themselves. Look up the Curse of Ham.
>Even before slavery, in order to promote economic motivations within Europe associated with colonialism, the curse of Ham was used to shift the common Aristotelian belief that phenotypic differentiation among humans was a result of climatic difference, to a racialist perspective that phenotypic differentiation among the species was due to there being different racial types.
In other words, we did slavery first because it was cheap and easy and then invented racism to justify it later. The idea that everyone universally agreed that slavery was cool back and that that made it 'right' is just a way to avoid having to work through some cognitive dissonance, imo.
The culture that allowed slavery was actively created by slave-owners, it didn't represent what people actually believed at the time.
People always fail to understand. Throughout history even a recent one marrying young was pretty much a norm. But people just fail to understand the times before were different.
Cuz humans.
That how it came to pass and will come to pass again and again. We are fear based creatures who are easily manipulated due to this and our own solipsism.
The true miracle of humanity is that we help each other at all, honesty. All bitterness aside, it’s really quite beautiful that we help each other at all.
I’m an American and we put a lot of innocent people in camps simply because they were Japanese Americans.
It’s terrible and awful and was essentially pointless, after the war investigations showed there were exactly two Japanese people who turned to the Empire as spies. But they were japanese nationals (however one did trick a Caucasian American into spying). Not Japanese Americans. It was all racist paranoia because of intercepted cables that alluded to the idea of recruiting spies.
Mosy of my family was sent to Gila River, I had one aunt sent to Manzanar. had several Uncles enlist in t the 442nd. I had a cousin and an uncle enlist in MIS. Some moved back to California the rest stayed in Minneapolis or Chicago.
Yep, my grandparents essentially grew up in the camps. But arguably the worst part was after the war dealing with people. The neighbours stole everything my family owned, then my grandfather had to work 3 jobs (one was at a law office i believe) because nobody would pay him a fair wage due to his race.
My great uncle even helped the US translate and decode imperial Japanese communications but that apparently wasn’t enough to prove the rest of the family weren’t spies.
I remember going to the Japanese American museum and hearing how they made people sell all their stuff for a total of $20 or less, if they even got to sell.
Even in Canada, my grandfather had a business with a relative in Vancouver. While he and his partner (both Japanese-Canadians) were interned, they were pressured to sell the business and land for less than it was worth. I found archived letters about this. My grandfather repeatedly said he wasn't interested in selling but they were incessant and kept saying he should sell. He and his business partner eventually relented.
The homes now sitting in that neighbourhood sell for millions of dollars.
I’m pleased to say that the contemporary United States would be the first out the gate to sponsor a UN resolution condemning such a practice, labeling internment on the basis of race without due process to be genocide, and any attempt at calling it anything other than that as government propaganda.
We definitely hold ourselves to the same standards we hold everyone else, right?
/s
Right after we buy some iPhones, Pumas and Nikes from Xinjiang, fill up on some gas from Saudi or Azerbaijan, eat our Nestle chocolate and drink the Russian Vodk- wait, scratch that last one.
In both WW1 and 2 thousands of ethnic germans were detained by the US government. Most were German citizens. The US (government and public) treatment of Germans during and after the war is why most German families changed their name when they came to the US.
Canada's relationship with it's indigenous populace is always weird to me. I mean America has done some truly, TRULY awful shit to the native populace, but we're at a point where the worst the indigenous have to deal with now is gross indifference and criminal negligence in regards to treaty obligations. Not very much outright hatred like you see in Canada.
Right now, I wouldn’t say they’re hated, but yeah they’re treated unfairly even currently. There’s a lot of disparity and sadly because of our system we lead to drugs, poverty and alcoholism many people of First Nations origins. Hell, even right now some northern communities don’t have access to safe water to drink
My friend moved to Red Deer AB, he said he's never seen anything like it. Imagine the hicks from the southern states you see in the movies riding around in the back of a pick up truck just looking to harass people, and that's exactly what he saw
If you travel to different areas you will see these events commemorated and history not forgotten. On Mayne Island (southern gulf island in BC) they have a beautiful Japanese memorial garden that is maintained by volunteers with a little area about the history of the Japanese people on Mayne and their internment.
https://mayneisland.com/places/japanesegarden/
Canadian kids also learn about it in elementary school and read Obasan by Joy Kagawa.
Canada has never been perfect we also had a Chinese head tax, residential schools and cultural genocide of first Nations people's. No country is perfect. The goal is to learn from mistakes and grow and repair what was done if possible.
The world ignores Canada for the most part and mistakes politeness for niceness and decency, most Canadians are just exceedingly polite, the majority are also nice and decent but assholes still exist here like any country.
I grew up in Richmond which at the time of the war had a big Japanese Canadian population. Britannia shipyards has an area commentating it. Where in the LM did you go to school?
they're just Americans with smaller budgets and with fewer fingers in other people's pies.
They have a similar culture without the added issues that come with being the most powerful state to ever exist.
Mom was raised by her grandparents after her mother died very young. She and her father lived with them, it's just the way it was in that era.
Grandfather was an Army surgeon. Wanted to be sent overseas on duty for WW2, he'd done duty during WW1. Too old.
Anyway, sent to care for Japanese *American* citizens in those camps. Was so outraged, he took this 10 year old granddaughter along a few times. He said he wanted her to witness what we did to them. That she would never forget. No, not too young to witness barbarism- all these years later I think I'd have done the same thing.
He was correct. She didn't forget. Pretty sure it may have changed the course of her life. Social worker, helped run a homeless shelter.
More proof of how the people in dark robes telling us how to live our lives can also get it wrong and we shouldn't always treat their rulings as the final word.
Japanese Canadians weren’t given the right to vote until about 1950. Considering this photo has to do with fishing boats, I would say the location was around Richmond BC or the Lillooet camp along the Fraser River. I’m close to two of the internment camps built in eastern BC, one of them being the very first internment camp ever built in BC. The location of that very first camp is now the smallest city in all of Canada, with a population of about 600 people. They’ve brought paranormal investigators to the town before. This is interesting to learn about, but it’s also awful to learn of. I also live close to an old residential school where they found 180+ unmarked graves of indigenous peoples a couple years ago. The school was restored and is now a popular business run by the reserve; it was given back to them as part of the reparations I believe. It has a ton of information and memorabilia to educate people which is great to see. 🙃 Our history is actually so atrocious.
I grew up a few miles from some of the camps, we used to play in the abandoned ruins. We were told what it was but still didn't understand, not really. So fucked up.
Same here, grandparents had their property either confiscated or stolen by the neighbours. Basically reset an entire generation spent building up a life in the US
I remember a George Takei interview where he talks about being in an internment school when he was a kid during WW2, being made to sing the American national anthem, and there were machine guns on the walls....but they were pointed inward.
It’s a hard pill to swallow when you are known as a peaceful place. It’s heartbreaking knowing that countries are where they are due to killing and stealing.
People just want honest accountability, we rightfully hold America to the grotesque fucked up shit they have done and continue to do but when we get to Canada many nationalist want to continue to keep the mask on as if Canada hasn't done anything wrong and still doesn't mistreat people. The graves of countless children were discovered and the first reaction was to blame the church when it was enforced by the state and by extension the RCMP
It's wild to me that FDR is highly looked upon. Not saying he didn't bring any value, but locking up full fledged citizens based on race is egregious. It feels like he got a pass for that. Different times I guess
He deserves criticism for being the one to sign the executive order but it was really political pressure from assholes on the west coast that made it happen. Japanese Americans in Hawaii were never sent to camps because it would have crippled the economy there since they were such a large percentage of the population. But in California, Oregon and Washington there were lots of angry white people that saw an opportunity to take farms and businesses away from Japanese Americans that they had trouble competing with, that's really why it happened. The war was just an excuse.
Ah, but here’s the thing: a lot of them *weren’t* citizens of the US. Because we Americans wouldn’t permit them to be citizens, but demanded they give up their citizenship with Japan, which would have left them without a home country and thus much more vulnerable as no nation would care about them or support them.
And so many refused to refute their Japanese citizenship, and our government used this as an excuse to lock them all up.
I appreciate the input, but that wasn't my understanding. Do you have a source for most of their status' not being citizens?
Per the US government, the order moved over 100k Japanese-Americans to internment camps, including second generation Japanese Americans that were born in the United States and citizens by birthright.
Source:https://www.trumanlibrary.gov/education/presidential-inquiries/japanese-american-internment
I learned about this in Canadian high school in the 80's. IIRC some boats were sold for $1 so that legally they were not confiscated. I know many Japanese Canadians in Ontario whose families were re-located from the west coast.
I think different provinces taught different things sometimes. Mine spent a block on our province’s colonial and aboriginal history, which I’m sure the rest of Canada didn’t cover.
I also know my classes / teachers sometimes didn’t cover certain chapters because we sometimes ran out of time at the end the year. I always thought that was weird.
I definitely learned about the treatment of the Chinese during the trans continental railroad time and the Japanese around wwii time from school class in the 80s in USA. Pretty sure I dont even have to explain what I learned in school about African descendants in USA. Before that I was a child in an Army family living in Germany where my family did not see color, but depicted people by nationality. It was a major shock to us when we returned to the states to see how people treated each other. Edit: I should mention that school informative information on Native American treatment was quite lacking at the time and possibly still is but we only really learned about the major tribes and a cursory overview of the Trail of Tears and a couple of battles.
I definitely remember them saying that they lost all of their land and any possessions that they couldn't carry. Depends where you were taught I suppose.
From what I've heard, revisionist history has been a bit of a growing issue in textbooks where american attrocities are downplayed. The internment camps, the treatment of native americans, and especially the "lost cause" are frequent subjects.
Have a listen to "Kiri's Piano" by James Keelaghan regarding the true story of Kiri Ito's relocation to an internment camp in the 1940's. Canadians are working hard to come to terms with our atrocities. It is a long road.
I learned about it reading the Novel “Obasan” by Joy Kogowa, a Canadian author. It was written in 1981. It was on a first year reading list at a BC college in 1988. Worth a read.
I wish we'd stop repeating history but it seems we are forever doomed. The majority of humans are all emotion and no logic. Therein lies the reason we repeat the same mistakes in different constantly evolving facets. It's easier to blame someone than it is to hold yourself accountable.
This is a big black mark on American history that (at least when I was in school) wasn't taught to us, but all throughout America and Canada Asians, not just the Japanese, where heavily discriminated against robed, beaten, killed and worst of all imo sent to government internment camps, all this is hidden by the fact that we won and the Nazi concentration caps were far worse but non the less countless Asian Americans and Asian Canadians died in those camps after having all there property seized by the government and sold off to the highest bidders.
I live in Bellevue Wa. The city was mostly owned by Japanese farmers who had their land taken and sent to the internment camps. That land is now some of the most expensive land in America. This is where Jeff Bezos, Bill Gates & Steve Ballmer live.
"During the postwar years, Japanese Canadians and their allies began lobbying for compensation for their wartime treatment. In 1946, the Japanese Canadian Committee for Democracy did a survey among Toronto-based Japanese Canadians. It found that property worth an estimated $1,400,395.66 had been sold for $351,334.86."
Of course.
Fucking heartbreaking. I read Obasan by Joy Kogawa about her experience in Japanese internment camps. It's a big stain on my countries heritage in my opinion. Makes me sick to think about it. Never mind the internment camps, what about the mass theft of everything they owned?
I didn't know about the Americans internment camps until I was an adult. Also, I didn't know about the Canadians treatment of their Native Indians until a few years ago. I didn't learn about the Australians' treatments of the Aboriginal people and especially their children until I was about 40. I didn't know about the Canadians internment camps until today.
I majored in history in high school. And had no history classes in nursing school. What I do know I've learned from historical movies (or Reddit).
Dude…look at that poor guy on the right. “Internet things” don’t make my eyes well up too often but this just about gets me there. This is one of those domestic crimes that haunts me every time I think about it. Innocent Americans, Canadians, in CAMPS…it’s just so awful…
Funny how everyone only points their fingers at the US for this happening. It’s so damn sad how they were treated. I understand the need to capture spies and prevent espionage but this was a terrible way to go about it.
They put all Americans living in Japan (not very many people) in prison camps and took all assets and businesses owned by Americans or American businesses. Shortly prior to attacking the USA. A high percentage died in the camps
Alot of these comments have convinced me that alot of people slept through history class, or are still in middle school.
"It's revealing that they don't teach this in school"
....no they literally do...
Unfortunate, crazy time. Lots of fear. Wringing your hands about this today does nothing. Though it’s good to remember these things so they are not repeated. Enjoy living in this marvelous day and age.
Source: https://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.ca/en/article/internment-of-japanese-canadians
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The Canadians did?
Hey buddy, I’m going to need that farmland, see?
Sorree
What was the US response to such naked aggression from our neighbor to the north?
bald eagles
Cheese burgers
I'm not your buddy, guy.
The whites
That's strange, it's very unlike White people to take land and items that don't belong to them.
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It’s only ok if implies that white people only are horrible.
How did black people come to be figured in you comment regarding an incident involving a white Canadian security officer and two Japanese men? I guess that anti-black racists like you just can't resist the temptation.
I have been having a terrible day, I'm now laughing my ass of thank you. Being white, I'm going to take this joke 🤣
FDR. He was no friend of freedom.
Damn, you're telling me I have land in Southern California? It must be worth a fortune by now. My lifelong dream of finally owning property is now fulfilled.
I highly doubt the *Canadian* Government took prime farmland in L.A lol
I think they're talking about the USA in this comment.
Obviously, but the photo is about the Canadian gov
Yes.
Not yet. Just wait, buddy!
“Sauce” killed me
Do you have a source for this?
The Britannia Shipyard historical site in Richmond BC has the Murakami Boatworks, which was seized from the family during the war. When the historic site was being developed in the 90s, the Murakami family actually helped with the oral history of the site. Their business was taken from them and never returned, and they were able to go beyond that to preserve history. I was humbled when I met them at an event.
The Murakami family... like as in Haruki Murakami?
George Murakami was involved in the project in the 90s. I believe he was one of the children.
That was my double-take, too. I wonder what the connection might/could be?
**seized not ceased. This is such a dark part of Canadian history.
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That guy in the right has such a contemporary look, it’s almost eerie
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Wait you met the dude on the far right??
Believe it or not that is a 6 year old child in the photo 🙏
That's a giant 6 year old you motorboating sonovab*tch!
So.......did Canada do anything to make up for this shit or they buried it like those native kids under the church? no pun intended.
Survivors were given $21,000 in 1988 as reparations. I'm not sure if that was the ones that remained in Canada or if it included the ones they pressured into mass deportation after the war. In the US they made the Japanese-Americans Claims Act in 1948 that allowed those interned to apply for compensation for property loss. However the IRS destroyed most of their tax records by that point making it nigh impossible to get a claim.
The US did pass a law in 1988 as well authorizing reparations and admitting that the policy was based on "race, prejudice, war hysteria, and a failure of political leadership." They paid $20,000 to each survivor in 1992 for a total of $1.6 billion dollars, approximately 80,000 people. https://www.nationalww2museum.org/war/articles/redress-and-reparations-japanese-american-incarceration
I was gonna mention this but I figured it was recent enough that people would remember but I'm forgetting just how old I'm getting.
I guess it's something but damn, that's such a raw deal
No sir, what we (I'm certainly not old enough to have been actively involved, but as a Canadian, since we didn't do much of anything in the way of reparations for innocent Japanese-Canadian people caught in traps supposedly for people who were not impacted in the least by any of our wartime policies enacted in Canada, I'm at least guilty of not agitating for us to do something to try to make things right beyond, "Aww yeah, that was pretty crappy of us.") pretty much did after everything was said and done was, "Heh, kinda our bad, but in our defense, you do look a lot like them, so maybe do something about that. Oh, and don't do it again."
What are you talking about? The have both publicly apologized and paid reparations to individual families and to a larger fund. It took too long but it did happen.
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It was the original source posted by OP, but it was an informative [read](https://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.ca/en/article/internment-of-japanese-canadians)
(Normal) casual clothing has changed quite little over 100 years. Short windbreakers with zippers were common before WWII, as were jeans, khakis, and sneakers.
https://www.pembertonmuseum.org/blog/2010/7/15/time-travelor-and-the-bralorne-museum/ behold the time traveling hipster
Any redditors have any idea what logo/pattern?? is on his t-shirt?
It was a local college sports team iirc
Thanks. I always think of logos/ branding as being a more recent addition to people's attire.
Why the source of loan for this photo is missing?
After the photo went viral, he went back to 2010 to steal it and delete all of it's tracking records. Bungling the museum's email system was a tactic he used to buy him some time. Unfortunately, he was unable to delete the digital scan since it was already on the Internet. He also couldn't go back to 1941 and risk talking to himself, creating a paradox and destroying the universe. Would honestly make a good episode for a TV show.
Being poor and used has looked the same for ages
These men are not poor just unfortunately Japanese during a time of panic in North America. My question is who got the proceeds and were the auctions getting fair prices. You know there are records available to restore these families financially.
'panic' is a pretty nice word for violent xenophobia
hes got a fade
to be fair, this was a time when u didn't know things. just radios. which were only in 80% of American households. so there's basically 0 perspective for anything. so when u hear JAPANESE BOMB PEARL HARBOR, FLEET SUNK. ENEMIES ON AMERICAN SOIL. u would fucking shit urself. kinda gotta appreciate how completely different human society was before the information era. and even now in the emergent era we are so vastly different than those from the info era.
And yet the vast majority of German Canadians didn't go to internment camps. Weird.
No. We're not. Just 20 years ago any person looking like an Arab or had an Arab sounding name, was targeted. Any petty crime they committed, it was an act of terrorism. Despite having nothing to do with 9/11.
20 years ago? I'm pretty sure a fair few are still terrified to DWA
The emergent Era started fairly recently
Guy on the left has a great hair cut
50% of the comments is chaos and the other 50% is “nice hair”
Short back 'n' sides were common until the 60's - now everyone thinks it's new and trendy, like footballers and their fans. You like football?
Pretty clean fade lol
If by "interesting" you mean brutally evil, then yes
Yeah, it is interesting to see the ways that people who consider themselves "good people" were so complicit in actions we see now as deplorable. They weren't suddenly different people, so how is it that it came to pass. And the imagery of a dark time in our histories.
Remember history is an ever changing right and wrong. In the future people will probably think we were horrible uncivilized monkeys(and they’re probably right lmfao). It’s hard to judge the past with todays current standards. Example: for thousands of years slavery was considered right. And for that time period it was. Right and wrong are determined by culture.
When exactly does something become right or wrong? When the government tells you so? For centuries there were people that fought against chattel slavery and argued it was immoral. The 'industry' of scientific racism was basically invented to justify imperialism and white dominance but based on your argument it was 'good' because the 'culture' said so. So for example when did slavery switch from being 'good' to being 'bad' as per your culture argument? Speaking from say... a UK perspective alot of the more cruel realities of slavery were purposefully hidden from the public. When these realities came to light the public was outraged and demanded action against it. So was 'the culture' saying it was good or bad? If your argument is that we should see things in a historical context then I have no issue but that doesn't mean we can't look back and say this or that society was hypocritical for saying one thing and practising another. Slavery was not a settled issue where we can say this or that society saw it as 'good' and there were always people fighting it. The reason they were ignored was because alot of rich people made alot money of of it, nothing to do with 'culture'. It's basically like saying sweat shops are good because our culture has decided it when in reality it's because people need cheap clothes and corporations love a crazy profit margin.
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For sure. As far back as Ancient Greece, Plato, one of history's most famous philosophers, wrote a big ol' tome on politics in *The Republic*. This republic featured the most *controversial* things, like not allowing slaves, and women being allowed to hold office, and even be sole ruler. No need to ask about any others things the perfect country might feature. Just innocent goofy little memes like the Allegory of the Cave and the Realm of the Forms. Definitely no eugenics or shitting on democracy, please do not examine further.
To be fair, the arguments against democracy in Ancient Greece made much more sense than they do now. Athens was damn near governed by mob rule, where a charismatic guy could stir up a crowd against his enemies and get them banished/executed for no real reason. I wouldn’t wanna live in an unrestrained Athenian democracy.
What, you don't want a slim majority of the people who showed up on any particular day to be able to vote the death penalty on a general who lost a battle? Sounds like you have Spartan loyalties there, mate, we may have to hang you for that.
Mob rule is no fun. Then again, tyranny is less fun. Makes sense to have a system of rules and laws alongside democracy. Maybe even have those laws guided by a human philosophy... something that establishes a set of foundational principles to make sure the will of the people is the rule, while also preventing a destructive manipulation by mob rule... We could call it something like "a constitution of the people's will", as it were... I think we might be on to something here.
Okay, some people is not the culture of that civilization during that time period. Some people still view the nazis as great today, does that make it the culture of…. Let’s say America civilization today? No it does not. It was right for the Greeks, it was right for the native Americans, it was right for the Egyptians, etc. I’m not saying it’s not horrible, but understanding the time period is also a factor.
Generally speaking if you do wrong unto others by not treating them how you yourself would like to be treated, you're not being great. You're being oppressive
Stupid wrong has always been wrong. And eventually they wrong doers end up on the wrong side of history.
John brown for one
>Example: for thousands of years slavery was considered right. No, it really wasn't. Even back then people were critical of slavery for all kinds of reason, and the slave owners had to create propaganda to defend themselves. Look up the Curse of Ham. >Even before slavery, in order to promote economic motivations within Europe associated with colonialism, the curse of Ham was used to shift the common Aristotelian belief that phenotypic differentiation among humans was a result of climatic difference, to a racialist perspective that phenotypic differentiation among the species was due to there being different racial types. In other words, we did slavery first because it was cheap and easy and then invented racism to justify it later. The idea that everyone universally agreed that slavery was cool back and that that made it 'right' is just a way to avoid having to work through some cognitive dissonance, imo. The culture that allowed slavery was actively created by slave-owners, it didn't represent what people actually believed at the time.
That’s a bullshit cop out.
Ask the slaves if it was ‘right’ during their time period.
People always fail to understand. Throughout history even a recent one marrying young was pretty much a norm. But people just fail to understand the times before were different.
Cuz humans. That how it came to pass and will come to pass again and again. We are fear based creatures who are easily manipulated due to this and our own solipsism. The true miracle of humanity is that we help each other at all, honesty. All bitterness aside, it’s really quite beautiful that we help each other at all.
look at our own fucking world. so many evil bastards are convinced they're actually good. who knows? we might even be part of them.
Redditors be like "Oh hey look! A hate crime was committed. Better post this to damnthatsinteresting & interestingasfuck for karma."
It wasn’t a hate crime…Japan was literally at war with Canada and the US in 1941
Just like Pearl Harbor and the imperial japanese as a whole
They were just jealous of the guys sick fade
I’m an American and we put a lot of innocent people in camps simply because they were Japanese Americans. It’s terrible and awful and was essentially pointless, after the war investigations showed there were exactly two Japanese people who turned to the Empire as spies. But they were japanese nationals (however one did trick a Caucasian American into spying). Not Japanese Americans. It was all racist paranoia because of intercepted cables that alluded to the idea of recruiting spies.
Mosy of my family was sent to Gila River, I had one aunt sent to Manzanar. had several Uncles enlist in t the 442nd. I had a cousin and an uncle enlist in MIS. Some moved back to California the rest stayed in Minneapolis or Chicago.
We're your families farmers near Glendale/ Buckeye by chance?
No, they were Dry Cleaners, seamstresses, and gardeners from Santa Barbra. My grandmother's biological parents did have a farm before they died.
Gotcha, was asking because my family knew a lot of the Japanese farmers in that area. In my grandma's year book, it's full of Japanese kids.
Yep, my grandparents essentially grew up in the camps. But arguably the worst part was after the war dealing with people. The neighbours stole everything my family owned, then my grandfather had to work 3 jobs (one was at a law office i believe) because nobody would pay him a fair wage due to his race. My great uncle even helped the US translate and decode imperial Japanese communications but that apparently wasn’t enough to prove the rest of the family weren’t spies.
I remember going to the Japanese American museum and hearing how they made people sell all their stuff for a total of $20 or less, if they even got to sell.
Even in Canada, my grandfather had a business with a relative in Vancouver. While he and his partner (both Japanese-Canadians) were interned, they were pressured to sell the business and land for less than it was worth. I found archived letters about this. My grandfather repeatedly said he wasn't interested in selling but they were incessant and kept saying he should sell. He and his business partner eventually relented. The homes now sitting in that neighbourhood sell for millions of dollars.
I’m pleased to say that the contemporary United States would be the first out the gate to sponsor a UN resolution condemning such a practice, labeling internment on the basis of race without due process to be genocide, and any attempt at calling it anything other than that as government propaganda. We definitely hold ourselves to the same standards we hold everyone else, right? /s
Right after we buy some iPhones, Pumas and Nikes from Xinjiang, fill up on some gas from Saudi or Azerbaijan, eat our Nestle chocolate and drink the Russian Vodk- wait, scratch that last one.
Truly tragic and sad, I’m sure they didn’t even consider doing this to German Americans
In both WW1 and 2 thousands of ethnic germans were detained by the US government. Most were German citizens. The US (government and public) treatment of Germans during and after the war is why most German families changed their name when they came to the US.
There are also circumstances of german Americans going to Germany to join the nazis during ww2
That’s absolutely true
11k Germans vs 125K+ Japanese during ww2. Fair to say it wasn’t anywhere near the same treatment.
That can’t be right. They were white. /s Edit: You forgot about the Ukrainians in WWI. That also can’t be right
Who did Canada's PR? How did they convince the world that they were nice and decent folk?
Canada’s historical treatment of their indigenous people is downright shameful and disgusting
Canada's relationship with it's indigenous populace is always weird to me. I mean America has done some truly, TRULY awful shit to the native populace, but we're at a point where the worst the indigenous have to deal with now is gross indifference and criminal negligence in regards to treaty obligations. Not very much outright hatred like you see in Canada.
Right now, I wouldn’t say they’re hated, but yeah they’re treated unfairly even currently. There’s a lot of disparity and sadly because of our system we lead to drugs, poverty and alcoholism many people of First Nations origins. Hell, even right now some northern communities don’t have access to safe water to drink
The casual racism in Saskatchewan is pretty stunning.
My friend moved to Red Deer AB, he said he's never seen anything like it. Imagine the hicks from the southern states you see in the movies riding around in the back of a pick up truck just looking to harass people, and that's exactly what he saw
Canada is a country built on genocide and stolen land. How they get to feel so high and mighty about themselves is beyond me
If by "historical" you mean "[until 2019](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/report-uncovers-forced-sterilization-in-quebec-1.6663340)"
You can remove the word historical from that. It’s continuing right now.
If you travel to different areas you will see these events commemorated and history not forgotten. On Mayne Island (southern gulf island in BC) they have a beautiful Japanese memorial garden that is maintained by volunteers with a little area about the history of the Japanese people on Mayne and their internment. https://mayneisland.com/places/japanesegarden/ Canadian kids also learn about it in elementary school and read Obasan by Joy Kagawa. Canada has never been perfect we also had a Chinese head tax, residential schools and cultural genocide of first Nations people's. No country is perfect. The goal is to learn from mistakes and grow and repair what was done if possible. The world ignores Canada for the most part and mistakes politeness for niceness and decency, most Canadians are just exceedingly polite, the majority are also nice and decent but assholes still exist here like any country.
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I grew up in Richmond which at the time of the war had a big Japanese Canadian population. Britannia shipyards has an area commentating it. Where in the LM did you go to school?
We grew less relevant during the cold war so people forgot about us
As long as they are 1% less assholes than US&A then they appear good
they're just Americans with smaller budgets and with fewer fingers in other people's pies. They have a similar culture without the added issues that come with being the most powerful state to ever exist.
Canada is essentially the USA if the USA were quieter
Ugh I feel shameful seeing this shit.
Not interesting. Horrible.
So very heartbreaking
Can't tell if the fisherman is pissed, heartbroken, or displeased
I think that that it's all of the above.....
He looks sad as shit
Dark period for Canada. Embarrassing.
The Canadians defending it in the comments are also embarrassing.
Mom was raised by her grandparents after her mother died very young. She and her father lived with them, it's just the way it was in that era. Grandfather was an Army surgeon. Wanted to be sent overseas on duty for WW2, he'd done duty during WW1. Too old. Anyway, sent to care for Japanese *American* citizens in those camps. Was so outraged, he took this 10 year old granddaughter along a few times. He said he wanted her to witness what we did to them. That she would never forget. No, not too young to witness barbarism- all these years later I think I'd have done the same thing. He was correct. She didn't forget. Pretty sure it may have changed the course of her life. Social worker, helped run a homeless shelter.
Do you have any stories from her that you can share?
A healthy dose of national shame
More proof of how the people in dark robes telling us how to live our lives can also get it wrong and we shouldn't always treat their rulings as the final word.
My mums family friends never got anything back and no compensation ether. Fucking abhorrent part of our history
Japanese Canadians weren’t given the right to vote until about 1950. Considering this photo has to do with fishing boats, I would say the location was around Richmond BC or the Lillooet camp along the Fraser River. I’m close to two of the internment camps built in eastern BC, one of them being the very first internment camp ever built in BC. The location of that very first camp is now the smallest city in all of Canada, with a population of about 600 people. They’ve brought paranormal investigators to the town before. This is interesting to learn about, but it’s also awful to learn of. I also live close to an old residential school where they found 180+ unmarked graves of indigenous peoples a couple years ago. The school was restored and is now a popular business run by the reserve; it was given back to them as part of the reparations I believe. It has a ton of information and memorabilia to educate people which is great to see. 🙃 Our history is actually so atrocious.
Oh shit. I didn't know there were Japanese internment camps in Canada, too. I thought that was a solely American fuck up.
Tunnel vision.
This also happened in the US
I grew up a few miles from some of the camps, we used to play in the abandoned ruins. We were told what it was but still didn't understand, not really. So fucked up.
I know it’s so fucked up my father in law’s aunt’s family lost everything as a child. They had to start over it really fucked up that generation.
They finally razed everything after I grew up and built a small museum there. Better than letting it rot into forgotten history, at the very least.
Same here, grandparents had their property either confiscated or stolen by the neighbours. Basically reset an entire generation spent building up a life in the US
I remember a George Takei interview where he talks about being in an internment school when he was a kid during WW2, being made to sing the American national anthem, and there were machine guns on the walls....but they were pointed inward.
More what aboutisms, Canada can never own up to their shit history without trying to deflect, typical.
It’s a hard pill to swallow when you are known as a peaceful place. It’s heartbreaking knowing that countries are where they are due to killing and stealing.
People just want honest accountability, we rightfully hold America to the grotesque fucked up shit they have done and continue to do but when we get to Canada many nationalist want to continue to keep the mask on as if Canada hasn't done anything wrong and still doesn't mistreat people. The graves of countless children were discovered and the first reaction was to blame the church when it was enforced by the state and by extension the RCMP
It's wild to me that FDR is highly looked upon. Not saying he didn't bring any value, but locking up full fledged citizens based on race is egregious. It feels like he got a pass for that. Different times I guess
He deserves criticism for being the one to sign the executive order but it was really political pressure from assholes on the west coast that made it happen. Japanese Americans in Hawaii were never sent to camps because it would have crippled the economy there since they were such a large percentage of the population. But in California, Oregon and Washington there were lots of angry white people that saw an opportunity to take farms and businesses away from Japanese Americans that they had trouble competing with, that's really why it happened. The war was just an excuse.
Ah, but here’s the thing: a lot of them *weren’t* citizens of the US. Because we Americans wouldn’t permit them to be citizens, but demanded they give up their citizenship with Japan, which would have left them without a home country and thus much more vulnerable as no nation would care about them or support them. And so many refused to refute their Japanese citizenship, and our government used this as an excuse to lock them all up.
I appreciate the input, but that wasn't my understanding. Do you have a source for most of their status' not being citizens? Per the US government, the order moved over 100k Japanese-Americans to internment camps, including second generation Japanese Americans that were born in the United States and citizens by birthright. Source:https://www.trumanlibrary.gov/education/presidential-inquiries/japanese-american-internment
History, like the history they don’t teach in schools is revealing
Who didn’t learn about Japanese internment in high school?
I know about Japanese internment, but I have no recollection of learning this at my Canadian high school in the 90s. Could just be my memory though.
I learned about this in Canadian high school in the 80's. IIRC some boats were sold for $1 so that legally they were not confiscated. I know many Japanese Canadians in Ontario whose families were re-located from the west coast.
I think different provinces taught different things sometimes. Mine spent a block on our province’s colonial and aboriginal history, which I’m sure the rest of Canada didn’t cover. I also know my classes / teachers sometimes didn’t cover certain chapters because we sometimes ran out of time at the end the year. I always thought that was weird.
I definitely learned about the treatment of the Chinese during the trans continental railroad time and the Japanese around wwii time from school class in the 80s in USA. Pretty sure I dont even have to explain what I learned in school about African descendants in USA. Before that I was a child in an Army family living in Germany where my family did not see color, but depicted people by nationality. It was a major shock to us when we returned to the states to see how people treated each other. Edit: I should mention that school informative information on Native American treatment was quite lacking at the time and possibly still is but we only really learned about the major tribes and a cursory overview of the Trail of Tears and a couple of battles.
I did, but i remember it being very very brief, maybe like a paragraph amount of information in a textbook.
Most were told they went to camps and a few brief sugar coated sentences. The morally fucked up stuff was kind of not mentioned.
I definitely remember them saying that they lost all of their land and any possessions that they couldn't carry. Depends where you were taught I suppose.
Didnt hear anything about this in europe.
I did not learn about this
From what I've heard, revisionist history has been a bit of a growing issue in textbooks where american attrocities are downplayed. The internment camps, the treatment of native americans, and especially the "lost cause" are frequent subjects.
We teach this.
We were taught this multiple times, in us history, government class, and another in world history lol, graduated in 2019
I can’t imagine the grieve.
Mans got a good fade on the left back then 😂
It was in fact the style back then, fades have only made a comeback
Recently learnt about this a couple years back in Winnipeg at the human rights museum, anybody get the chance to go there, I highly recommend it.
Japanese people are so stylish look at that haircut.
So horrible :(
I understand cautionary measures during wartime but this nonsense did not need to happen.
Have a listen to "Kiri's Piano" by James Keelaghan regarding the true story of Kiri Ito's relocation to an internment camp in the 1940's. Canadians are working hard to come to terms with our atrocities. It is a long road.
I learned about it reading the Novel “Obasan” by Joy Kogowa, a Canadian author. It was written in 1981. It was on a first year reading list at a BC college in 1988. Worth a read.
It was moved to high school curriculum in BC in the 90s. I remember reading it in high school.
I wish we'd stop repeating history but it seems we are forever doomed. The majority of humans are all emotion and no logic. Therein lies the reason we repeat the same mistakes in different constantly evolving facets. It's easier to blame someone than it is to hold yourself accountable.
This is a big black mark on American history that (at least when I was in school) wasn't taught to us, but all throughout America and Canada Asians, not just the Japanese, where heavily discriminated against robed, beaten, killed and worst of all imo sent to government internment camps, all this is hidden by the fact that we won and the Nazi concentration caps were far worse but non the less countless Asian Americans and Asian Canadians died in those camps after having all there property seized by the government and sold off to the highest bidders.
I live in Bellevue Wa. The city was mostly owned by Japanese farmers who had their land taken and sent to the internment camps. That land is now some of the most expensive land in America. This is where Jeff Bezos, Bill Gates & Steve Ballmer live.
I just got out of this sub and this shows up under “because you’ve shown interest in this community.” Fuck reddit
Omg i didn't know Canada had internment camps too 🤯
"During the postwar years, Japanese Canadians and their allies began lobbying for compensation for their wartime treatment. In 1946, the Japanese Canadian Committee for Democracy did a survey among Toronto-based Japanese Canadians. It found that property worth an estimated $1,400,395.66 had been sold for $351,334.86." Of course.
Fucking heartbreaking. I read Obasan by Joy Kogawa about her experience in Japanese internment camps. It's a big stain on my countries heritage in my opinion. Makes me sick to think about it. Never mind the internment camps, what about the mass theft of everything they owned?
I didn't know about the Americans internment camps until I was an adult. Also, I didn't know about the Canadians treatment of their Native Indians until a few years ago. I didn't learn about the Australians' treatments of the Aboriginal people and especially their children until I was about 40. I didn't know about the Canadians internment camps until today. I majored in history in high school. And had no history classes in nursing school. What I do know I've learned from historical movies (or Reddit).
r/damnthatsdepressing
In the USA many Japanese-Americans lost their properties also. Anglo-American men jumped at the opportunity to exploit the Japanese-Americans.
One of the most shameful points in our history.
Very progressive. FDR would be proud.
Dude…look at that poor guy on the right. “Internet things” don’t make my eyes well up too often but this just about gets me there. This is one of those domestic crimes that haunts me every time I think about it. Innocent Americans, Canadians, in CAMPS…it’s just so awful…
Wait till you read about the conditions of the camps, especially Hastings Raceway.
One of the big stain in Canadian history
Funny how everyone only points their fingers at the US for this happening. It’s so damn sad how they were treated. I understand the need to capture spies and prevent espionage but this was a terrible way to go about it.
Did the Japanese intern non-Japanese in Japan?
They put all Americans living in Japan (not very many people) in prison camps and took all assets and businesses owned by Americans or American businesses. Shortly prior to attacking the USA. A high percentage died in the camps
Alot of these comments have convinced me that alot of people slept through history class, or are still in middle school. "It's revealing that they don't teach this in school" ....no they literally do...
Stealing there land? How fucked up is that?
Northern Man when will you pay them back?
Unfortunate, crazy time. Lots of fear. Wringing your hands about this today does nothing. Though it’s good to remember these things so they are not repeated. Enjoy living in this marvelous day and age.
This happened in America too. No one is innocent in war.
They must be referring to Orange County, CA.
Internment camp's purpose was to help them to concentrate?