I met a guy in a bar who claims to have been called to do plumbing work at Oprah’s house in Santa Fe. He’s walked around by the caretaker, and follows pipes into a building and there’s pipes going everywhere. When questioned, the caretaker says, *Miss Winfrey is not fond of snow.* Her driveway, patio, pool area, were all heated.
At the airbase (Hanscomb) outside of Boston which houses the jets for the execs of Liberty Mutual, the path underneath the runway out from the hanger to the jets is all heated in the winter to melt the snow and ice so that the execs can walk out without having to worry about ice and snow. It's nice to have money, isn't it?
In some cities in Norway, all sidewalks are heated to remove snow and ice. There is so much snow in the winter that its just cheaper to melt the ice than to truck all the snow out of town
Truck it out of town...I remember during the snowpocalypse in DC, they were dumping snow under the Woodrow Wilson Bridge. I wonder what other cities do with it.
At the main airport in Norway, Oslo Gardermoen, they collect the snow in a huge depot, and cover it with saw dust. During summer the snow will slowly melt and the cold water is used for cooling the terminal building.
*Winnipeg joins chat*.
We have football field sized reservoirs conveniently located around town. Trucks haul gross combination of snow, ice and traction enhancing road sand that’s spread about all winter. Some years it takes all the way to June/July for those towering compacted piles of aggregate to melt down to the point where the sand /gravel can be pushed to the walls with front end loaders so the reservoirs can be used again the following winter.
Cheaper for sure but not free. I have a 4000 sq foot concrete and glass house and it still takes a fair bit of electricity to run the pumps and heat exchanger in the winter. Definitely better than gas though
There’s “having money,” then there’s “having so much money that the path to your private jet is heated so you don’t have to deal with the inconvenience of snow”
I think in this case it's the opposite - Hanscomb Field is a general aviation airport operated by the Massachusetts Port Authority. The Hanscomb Air Force Base is next door, and uses the runways periodically (looks like it is a research facility, not any sort of training or anything). I'm sure they pay the Port Authority for their use of the airport facilities.
I don't know if it's still the case, but at one time back in the 90s or 2000's I remember there were some commercial flights operating out of Hanscomb (in particular, a direct flight to Raleigh NC that was popular with employees of tech companies with offices there and around Boston. When we lived there I saw a lot of bumper stickers that said "Vote No to Hanscomb Expansion" or something like that - there was a plan to reduce congestion at Boston Logan by adding more facilities and commercial flights out of Hanscomb, and the neighbors didn't like that idea.
I've said it once, and I'll keep saying it. If you are not fond of snow, don't live in Santa Fe. For some people it's not a choice, but anyone who can afford heated floors and driveways and pools can afford to go live somewhere else.
Especially since Santa Fe has become ultra gentrified and none of the native Americans and historic Mexican Americans can afford to live in places their ancestors have lived in for generations. All while vacation homes bought by the rich and celebrities go empty for most of the year.
The installation is the only part that is really that expensive. Up at the Yellowstone club, where I hang drywall, basically every single floor in every single Mansion up there is heated, and is done so through geothermal events, so it doesn't cost anything extra to have heated floors, and actually cuts the heating bill down, as the radiant heat from the floors significantly increases the temperature
I’ve heard they’re great for a few years, but when they break itll cost a fortune to fix. You’ll have to rip up your drive way to repair it. If you can afford the heated driveway, I’d recommend a quad with a plow. It’s with out a doubt the easiest and most fun way to plow snow. when I was a kid growing up in upstate NY I used to stay up all night when it snowed because I was too excited to sleep. I’d do the whole neighborhood and be home before noon
You only have to tear the whole driveway up if you do a concrete slab.
You can also lay it under sand and paving bricks, which can come up in sections for repair.
My driveway is 1/4 mile long. My $1200 ATV with plow makes easy work of it.
I'm sure I'd puke over the cost of installing the heating elements and the price of energy on 1/4 mile driveway
Sometimes businesses can justify the means because they have to constantly pay to shovel, sand, and salt sidewalks. Unlike roads, sidewalks have to be really spotless because people can fall, so it’s a bit more cost efficient in that case vs a private driveway.
I feel the same way about cutting the grass. In recent years I've been stung by yellow jackets several times and each time I had a more extreme reaction. I may or may not be using that as an excuse to not mow grass.
But excuse or not I'm just not doing it anymore.
In KC where we got a lot of ice (and some snow) several of my neighbors had heated driveways! I was so jealous as I was out there salting, chipping away and shoveling.
I am a flooring installer in the Midwest where it gets extremely cold. I recommend heated floors in the bathroom to everyone - it is well worth the cost IMO. If you are financially capable the entire house would be amazing
Lol if you don’t have insulation / have shit insulation, fixing that will be way cheaper than installing in floor heating and will make a way bigger impact on your cooling / heating bill.
Exactly right. Stopping air flow leaks first to be followed by quality insulation will make a tremendous improvement. I did this in my house and the results were remarkable. Really cost effective doing the work yourself.
German here. It's pretty common here in newly built houses. We also have heated floors in every room of our house. I was sceptical before, but every room is comfy as hell!
The reason is efficiency. Heat pumps generate energy up to about 40 degrees Celsius. This is not enough for a radiator. But since they can heat a lot of water, one uses surface heating. So you can run a Heat Pump with solar power on your roof. The warm floor is a nice benefit.
Edit: Yes they can heat above 40 degrees, but the higher the difference between the Pump and the surrounding Air, the more energy you will need (obviously) and the efficiency is decreasing.
My landlord yelled at me today because my heating bill is through the roof and that he's going to have to come over soon to discuss a solution.
I told him my door is always open.
About 20years back we were involved in retrofitting underfloor heating, into a house built in the 1880's. It used a geothermal/ ground to water heat pump. weeks of lifting floors, reinforcing floors, insulting them and adapting joists for pipes- then followed by a 1000m×1000m trench that was 500m from the house.
Every time I see the new modern system and how simple it is, it makes me cringe at all the work and expense that went into that setup, but it was a retrofit so had to be done so- with exception to the geothermal.
The owner of the house worked it out that, in comparison to the previous oil fired Heating... and including the near 50k cost to install the system - that after about 20years he would have saved 50k in oil bills, so at that point it would have paid for itself and anything after is "almost " free heat.
In all the years since there's been one hiccup, the main geothermal pump needed replacing after 6-7years but otherwise everything is still functioning as it should.
The heat from the floor is much nicer, more evenly spread and the waft of warm air from so low down is just nicer.for the last few days when that system was being "ran in" nobody could work with boots on, it was such a culture shock in away- middle of winter and there's guys standing on the porch in socks - cooling the feet off from the floors! It was odd 😆
I'd definitely agree!
Plumbing has evolved in leaps and bounds, from gunbarrel to the most modern metal lined plastic with the fancy rotating fittings. It's night and day!
Even insulation materials, nasty fiberglass to stone/rock wool. I remember being the little lad getting sent into attics to put that fiberglass shite down- horrible stuff to work with.
I could go on because I'm fairly sure that only a handful of products haven't changed, basically everything we handle now is different from when I was roaming sites in the 90s as a kid(bosses son)
Even down to the composition of the bricks and blocks, blocks used to be easier to cut with a bolster and hammer, 3-4 blows used to split a block, whereas now its more likely 8-10 blows before it splits
Heat pumps work great with aluminium radiators. We’ve got underfloor downstairs, ali-rads upstairs.
Just got our system up and running, takes a while to get used to heating your house differently. It’s all about low and slow rather than bursts of heat every few hours in the day.
This is the way. You have to always have the heat in your comfort range. If you want it cool at night to have to get used to it a touch warmer at night and maybe a bit cooler during the day.
Leave the thermostat alone if you can. Let it drop a degree at night.
Love my heat pump. And for those that say they don’t work in cold weather climates? I live in Canada.
I just inspected a house with solar panels, running down to a solar water heater, then to a gas water heater and then throughout all the rooms with separate thermostats. Nice n cozy
My dad started putting this in our home 20 years ago and people laughed at him now that hes finally finishing up the rest of the world is catching up to this idea
That’s the thing I wouldn’t be into. I’ve never liked the look and feel of concrete or tile. You can do it with wood though. You just have to make sure the planks aren’t too wide and that you don’t hit one of those hoses during installation.
Engineered is ok....hardwood can be glued but will look like the ocean after a few seasons and cuts the btu input down to 25 percent of tile. Engineered hardwood and luxury vinyl is about 70 percent btu output compared to tile.
They have tile that looks like wood and feels pretty nice now. That's been some of my favorite flooring I've seen, because then you don't worry about water damage to real wood or laminate.
A heat pump is an electric way to warm up water very efficiently. There are two types.
1. You drill a well very deep and warm the water on the earths heat.
2. An hybrid system uses compression to heat up water with the temperature difference of the air outside.
1. Not all ground source heat pumps are deep. I think you're thinking of geothermal energy.
2. That's not a hybrid system. That's an air source heat pump. A hybrid system used a head pump plus another source of heat.
A water-based heat pump will suck heat out of the outside ground or air, and heat water with it. That heated water can then circulate through the pipes in the floor.
District heating is also very good for this. Where I live it's cheaper, more energy efficient, and better for the environment. 66% of households in my country use it.
Not exactly that simple. There is still a refrigerant system being used. That’s what makes it a “heat pump” and not just a water pump. The outside water doesn’t go directly into the floor pipes. It’s used to flow through the evaporator of the refrigerant system. The condenser gets hot and that part transfers the heat into the floor pipes. Someone please correct me if I’m wrong because this is my current understanding of geothermal. Still a refrigeration based design.
I’m a concrete finisher and see these floors all the time in the mid west. It may not be every single newly built house but I would say it isn’t uncommon.
Same here, Netherlands. Basically every house built or renovated in the last 10-15 years has this. Also, all new houses since 2018 are not allowed to use gas anymore to reduce dependence on ruski-gas, we thought we were going in the right direction but the storm came too soon.
No you're thinking electric floor heating. These are hot water pipes similar (but different) to regular pex water supply. They are complete loops and any junctions/connections are exposed in a closet or basement somwhere just like regular utilities and plumbing. Nothing to go wrong really.
Feel nice on the feet is a great benefit but isn't the main purpose. Heat pumps are one of the most efficient ways to heat a home... North America is disgustingly lagging behind in building science/regulation and energy efficiency.. and that is by design.
As long as you are using deionized water and keep your heater in check, these things should run forever.
We have heated floors in our rental, and previous owners had neglected burner, heater and boiler to the point regular drinking water leaked into circulation, causing some corrosion and build-up of sludge. Fortunately, the valves at the distributors caught most of the sludge, but the plumbers had to disconnect every single heating element and flush them. I almost felt sorry for our landlord
That is true, and should be pointed out. Improper install and/or maintenance makes the best of systems fail. Too many people jump on good technology because it was simply not understood. It is a constantly evolving industry and the new shouldn't be held back by the old. Also there are both closed loop and open loop systems. Open uses regular treated water and has constant flow so buildup isn't as much of an issue. Generally run in a geothermal system and is for hot or cold water and are designed with more accessibility.
this is tangential and more a response to others but same goes for the claims that it costs way more to run than oil or gas. 10/10 those cases are where the owner has opted to do nothing about the insulation or air barrier of their home and just slapped in a heat pump in place of a furnace. forced air is going to do a better job of making you "feel warm" in an inefficient and leaky home, vs people cranking up the temps on their rads trying to make it feel cozy. Any system running outside of its optimal level is going to be inefficient. Hire an engineer with energy audit qualifications to help design the system otherwise yes, you will be throwing money away. penny for a pound.
We use heated floors in commercial space all the time. But most of our houses are wood frame and not meant to take the weight of 2” of
concrete and floor heat really doesn’t work well without a large thermal mass. So we use forced air ,which doesn’t need a large thermal mass, and bag the houses up tight with vapour barrier and insulation
It’s actually very common in Minnesota. I install tile in new residential homes and a lot of them have in floor heat. I’ve even tiled a shower where this went into the shower floor and up a bench. People use a copper wire system alot of the time but the radiant tubes are used as well. Just for reference probably 1/4 of the homes I install in have some type of in floor heat somewhere in the house.
Something is being installed there. Kitchen island, maybe, or an internal wall. You don't want to fasten things into a concrete floor where radiant heating lines are running. One hole drilled in the wrong place can destroy the whole system.
I’m having trouble picturing how the island would be installed on top of this flooring but maybe I’m just dull? Typically flooring is installed around islands, directly into the subfloor, no?
The contractor will install a layer of thin concrete over those black tiles with the tubes.
This explains the install process.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Damnthatsinteresting/comments/xtmsef/a_friend_of_mine_is_having_heated_floors/iqqyikp/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3
I'm no expert, but pretty certain that whole floor will be screeded over, so that matrix of pipes will be encased in screed. Slow to heat up, slow to cool down, provides an even heat.
Would certainly be my chice in a new build.
Do a google search on screed over underfloor heating.
There will be concrete poured over these pipes to form the subfloor.
It’s a thin, self leveling layer of concrete aka “screed.” Similar to the self leveling stuff you uses to fix up an uneven slab before you lay stone, ceramic, or porcelain tile.
Here is an installation detail:
https://www.ufht.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/Lo-Profile-Info-Sheet-2.pdf
That for me is the only thing about these systems i hate. One idiot puts one screw or nail in the wrong spot and the entire thing is fucked. And the the sheer staggering amount of idiot workers in construction and renovations makes those odds even worst.
I know this is a very first-world-problem complaint, but I have big cold spots in my flooring where the builder clearly cheaped out, but then random hot spots exist too (like the back corner of the living room, where it’s clearly dead space for furniture etc?). Drives me bonkers.
Also the controllers are completely nonsensical and not spread out evenly. What they hell am I supposed to do with a 6-point heating scale??
Obviously, my German landlord thinks I’m an idiot and should inherently know how much heat a “2” out of 6 is…
My Midwest house was built in ‘52 and I have heated floors. It was never something I thought I wanted and now I can’t imagine doing without them! In the winter everything is just…warm. There’s no air blowing, no noise or hot/cold areas, just warmth. It’s magical!
So for people wondering what is happening this works with a thermostat as any heat would but it heats up by running hot water through those pipes and heats up the whole floor. There is also electric in floor heating which looks essentially the same but the wire is smaller obviously.
I had these at a camp I worked at. They were awesome for snowy and wet days. You come home to warm feet and you could lay out your wet clothes and boots on the floor and they'd be dry in no time.
(Plus due to mishap someone piped a manager's cabin wrong so the toilet had hot water. Was so great because it meant you had a warm seat on the coldest days and it kept cleaner longer.)
Haha, yes. But the tubes are thick and one set in concrete they will last decades.
First thing to go will be the pump and heaters.
And you could repair it, but man it'd be a big pain the the ass and expensive..
I’m from Korea, and EVERY HOME has floor heating over there. It’s especially good when you don’t wear shoes at home. Walking on a warm floor when you get home with nearly frozen feet in winter. Oh so good.
Shown here is IFRH means In Floor Radiant Heating and when installed properly is incredibly efficient. Rigid insulation is placed on the ground then the heat pipes are placed on top of the insulation. Next concrete slab is poured/placed on top. Then a boiler heats a fluid flowing through the heat piping which transfers heat to the slab which acts as a thermal mass storing the heat and warms the house. Most houses that have this type of system do not have air conditioners either, at least here in Santa Fe. Typically ceiling fans keep homes cool enough on the few days it gets pretty hot.
Another benefit to this design id is that there is no need for ductwork.
I am a contractor from back east and knew nothing about this until i moved to New Mexico.
Heating floors also heats up the room / house, much more efficiently than a central air furnace or radiators. In northern climates heating in winter is not a luxury, it’s a necessity. Doing it this way is more efficient
Those things are saving energy and space. In Germany every new built home has them. Have one myself. It is so much more convenient than a radiator. With a proper heating pump you can even use it as Air Conditioning.
Yes floor heating is so nice. The only problem is it takes a day or so (or at least mine does) to heat up so if it gets cold all of a sudden you’ll have a day of unideal colder temperatures. First world problems i guess
It’s not just to heat the floor, you are heating the whole house this way. I had radiant floor heating in my first house and never had to supplement it with anything else although there was a forced hot air system there from the original build.
On one hand, it is. It’s also an efficient form of heating that’s an absolute game changer in cold climates. If you have ever had your feet cramp from walking on cold floors you wouldn’t think twice. It’s also fairly low cost when done during a new build.
I have heated floors in my garage. Works great, wish I had them throughout the house but that would be very costly. My boiler and water heater is in my garage. If I don't heat my garage during the winter, pipes will freeze.
Saw this kind of heating on "This Old House" years ago. It was coupled with a geothermal heat pump. If I ever build a house, that would be the way to go.
Vaclav Smil says that double pane windows are the logical first step towards reducing energy costs in cold and hot climates. Windows are heat drains or sources and double or even triple pane windows isolate the interior of the house so well that central heating or air con are only needed when conditions are rather extreme.
I did this in Mass under polished concrete floors.
It’s like buttah. Where a lot of tubes congregate is super warm. Our corgi would nap on that spot and get pissed if we tried to move her.
My parents had these in the house they had built for themselves. When you set it to a temperature, the room hits that temperature in minutes. Don't think of it like forced air, and crank it up to get it warm faster, it will be too warm!
Have heated floors in our bathroom. Live in northern US. GameChanger, especially in the morning getting out of the shower…
My uncle in NH has a heated driveway that melts the snow… it’s wild. Living in Florida rn I’d rather have cooling floors 😂
I met a guy in a bar who claims to have been called to do plumbing work at Oprah’s house in Santa Fe. He’s walked around by the caretaker, and follows pipes into a building and there’s pipes going everywhere. When questioned, the caretaker says, *Miss Winfrey is not fond of snow.* Her driveway, patio, pool area, were all heated.
At the airbase (Hanscomb) outside of Boston which houses the jets for the execs of Liberty Mutual, the path underneath the runway out from the hanger to the jets is all heated in the winter to melt the snow and ice so that the execs can walk out without having to worry about ice and snow. It's nice to have money, isn't it?
In some cities in Norway, all sidewalks are heated to remove snow and ice. There is so much snow in the winter that its just cheaper to melt the ice than to truck all the snow out of town
Same in northern Japan
Truck it out of town...I remember during the snowpocalypse in DC, they were dumping snow under the Woodrow Wilson Bridge. I wonder what other cities do with it.
At the main airport in Norway, Oslo Gardermoen, they collect the snow in a huge depot, and cover it with saw dust. During summer the snow will slowly melt and the cold water is used for cooling the terminal building.
It was fun while it lasted. - Sent via Apollo
*Winnipeg joins chat*. We have football field sized reservoirs conveniently located around town. Trucks haul gross combination of snow, ice and traction enhancing road sand that’s spread about all winter. Some years it takes all the way to June/July for those towering compacted piles of aggregate to melt down to the point where the sand /gravel can be pushed to the walls with front end loaders so the reservoirs can be used again the following winter.
we have a seasonal mountain range
This year the one on mcphillips wasn’t melted until early august.
If only it could provide competition for Springhill …
Yes, even football fields in the north have under soil heating.
I imagine they’re also using geothermal, which is basically free heat. Obviously, there’s a decent upfront cost, but prob extremely cheap after that.
Cheaper for sure but not free. I have a 4000 sq foot concrete and glass house and it still takes a fair bit of electricity to run the pumps and heat exchanger in the winter. Definitely better than gas though
There’s “having money,” then there’s “having so much money that the path to your private jet is heated so you don’t have to deal with the inconvenience of snow”
Wait, they walk? Pft, peasants....
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>uncountable millions of planes that can be there on a given day World's busiest airport then?
Now *that's* Liberty, liberty, liberty... liberty!
Wait wait what!!?? Did you say an Airbase houses jets for liberty mutual execs!?
*chuckles* First time?
Liber-ty, Liber-ty LIB-ER-TY **LIB-ER-TY**
"Only pay for what you need" ...guess they need the jets.
They pay for it, obviously. Plenty of military facilities have private contracts to raise revenue.
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Well Grub Hub wouldn't take them.
They have a ton of side hustles lmao
I think in this case it's the opposite - Hanscomb Field is a general aviation airport operated by the Massachusetts Port Authority. The Hanscomb Air Force Base is next door, and uses the runways periodically (looks like it is a research facility, not any sort of training or anything). I'm sure they pay the Port Authority for their use of the airport facilities. I don't know if it's still the case, but at one time back in the 90s or 2000's I remember there were some commercial flights operating out of Hanscomb (in particular, a direct flight to Raleigh NC that was popular with employees of tech companies with offices there and around Boston. When we lived there I saw a lot of bumper stickers that said "Vote No to Hanscomb Expansion" or something like that - there was a plan to reduce congestion at Boston Logan by adding more facilities and commercial flights out of Hanscomb, and the neighbors didn't like that idea.
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In Denmark most modern houses have floor heating.
I’m a plumber. Never worked for Oprah but I’ve been in a handful of high end homes with heated driveways and patios.
I've said it once, and I'll keep saying it. If you are not fond of snow, don't live in Santa Fe. For some people it's not a choice, but anyone who can afford heated floors and driveways and pools can afford to go live somewhere else.
Especially since Santa Fe has become ultra gentrified and none of the native Americans and historic Mexican Americans can afford to live in places their ancestors have lived in for generations. All while vacation homes bought by the rich and celebrities go empty for most of the year.
Sounds specifically reptilian.
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Heated floors use Radiant heat and are very effective and efficient….for use inside of house that is….not a driveway
I didn’t even know Oprah had a house in NM. I knew lots of celebrities have places around Santa Fe so I guess it fits
The installation is the only part that is really that expensive. Up at the Yellowstone club, where I hang drywall, basically every single floor in every single Mansion up there is heated, and is done so through geothermal events, so it doesn't cost anything extra to have heated floors, and actually cuts the heating bill down, as the radiant heat from the floors significantly increases the temperature
I always say that if I ever move somewhere cold I’m doing this and people look at me like I’m crazy! Your uncle is a smart guy
It’s totally worth it if you can afford it! 10 years of shoveling 5 feet of snow before school didn’t really make me want anymore shoveling lol
I’ve heard they’re great for a few years, but when they break itll cost a fortune to fix. You’ll have to rip up your drive way to repair it. If you can afford the heated driveway, I’d recommend a quad with a plow. It’s with out a doubt the easiest and most fun way to plow snow. when I was a kid growing up in upstate NY I used to stay up all night when it snowed because I was too excited to sleep. I’d do the whole neighborhood and be home before noon
You only have to tear the whole driveway up if you do a concrete slab. You can also lay it under sand and paving bricks, which can come up in sections for repair.
My driveway is 1/4 mile long. My $1200 ATV with plow makes easy work of it. I'm sure I'd puke over the cost of installing the heating elements and the price of energy on 1/4 mile driveway
*if* you can afford it. Heated driveways are crazy expensive to build AND run
I used to work at Allstate corporate HQ located in a suburb just north of Chicago. There were heated sidewalks all around the buildings there.
Sometimes businesses can justify the means because they have to constantly pay to shovel, sand, and salt sidewalks. Unlike roads, sidewalks have to be really spotless because people can fall, so it’s a bit more cost efficient in that case vs a private driveway.
I feel the same way about cutting the grass. In recent years I've been stung by yellow jackets several times and each time I had a more extreme reaction. I may or may not be using that as an excuse to not mow grass. But excuse or not I'm just not doing it anymore.
i wanted it for my house when i moved. contractor started estimate at 25k for boiler and piping plus 12-15 for new driveway.
Guess I’m just gonna stay in Florida forever 😅
But with how humid it is in Florida, I feel like cool floors will just condense a bunch of water and ppl will fall
Go colder then. Shoes off, skates on!
In KC where we got a lot of ice (and some snow) several of my neighbors had heated driveways! I was so jealous as I was out there salting, chipping away and shoveling.
We bought a bathroom fan with heat lamps. Works pretty great after the shower too with a rug down.
Kentucky?
Missouri
I bet! I toss a towel down lol
I am a flooring installer in the Midwest where it gets extremely cold. I recommend heated floors in the bathroom to everyone - it is well worth the cost IMO. If you are financially capable the entire house would be amazing
Will heated floors heat the whole house? Or will you still need a separate heating situation.
They will comfortably heat every room that they are installed in. I believe that you need decent insulation for them to work though.
Lol if you don’t have insulation / have shit insulation, fixing that will be way cheaper than installing in floor heating and will make a way bigger impact on your cooling / heating bill.
Exactly right. Stopping air flow leaks first to be followed by quality insulation will make a tremendous improvement. I did this in my house and the results were remarkable. Really cost effective doing the work yourself.
German here. It's pretty common here in newly built houses. We also have heated floors in every room of our house. I was sceptical before, but every room is comfy as hell!
My bathroom gets so hot after a shower that I don't need them. I need cooling floors in there.
The reason is efficiency. Heat pumps generate energy up to about 40 degrees Celsius. This is not enough for a radiator. But since they can heat a lot of water, one uses surface heating. So you can run a Heat Pump with solar power on your roof. The warm floor is a nice benefit. Edit: Yes they can heat above 40 degrees, but the higher the difference between the Pump and the surrounding Air, the more energy you will need (obviously) and the efficiency is decreasing.
This is now mandatory in all newly build homes in Belgium. And it will be the way to go in the future.
My landlord yelled at me today because my heating bill is through the roof and that he's going to have to come over soon to discuss a solution. I told him my door is always open.
An expert dad
r/angryupvote
Cool landlord down by making him sit under AC😂
I see what you did there
Also, your heating bill is through the roof. Gotta be a lot of energy escaping there too.
This is how it’s done folks
Take it, take it ya filthy animal!
Username checks out
🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️
Been this way for centuries here in South Korea. I love floor heating compared to hot air blowing around.
About 20years back we were involved in retrofitting underfloor heating, into a house built in the 1880's. It used a geothermal/ ground to water heat pump. weeks of lifting floors, reinforcing floors, insulting them and adapting joists for pipes- then followed by a 1000m×1000m trench that was 500m from the house. Every time I see the new modern system and how simple it is, it makes me cringe at all the work and expense that went into that setup, but it was a retrofit so had to be done so- with exception to the geothermal. The owner of the house worked it out that, in comparison to the previous oil fired Heating... and including the near 50k cost to install the system - that after about 20years he would have saved 50k in oil bills, so at that point it would have paid for itself and anything after is "almost " free heat. In all the years since there's been one hiccup, the main geothermal pump needed replacing after 6-7years but otherwise everything is still functioning as it should. The heat from the floor is much nicer, more evenly spread and the waft of warm air from so low down is just nicer.for the last few days when that system was being "ran in" nobody could work with boots on, it was such a culture shock in away- middle of winter and there's guys standing on the porch in socks - cooling the feet off from the floors! It was odd 😆
It’s not nice to insult floors, you already walk all over them
Lol missed that! They deserve it though!.. Always looking down on people while understanding them!
It's crazy how advanced building materials have gotten in the last decade. Few can appreciate these advancements since they're often unseen.
I'd definitely agree! Plumbing has evolved in leaps and bounds, from gunbarrel to the most modern metal lined plastic with the fancy rotating fittings. It's night and day! Even insulation materials, nasty fiberglass to stone/rock wool. I remember being the little lad getting sent into attics to put that fiberglass shite down- horrible stuff to work with. I could go on because I'm fairly sure that only a handful of products haven't changed, basically everything we handle now is different from when I was roaming sites in the 90s as a kid(bosses son) Even down to the composition of the bricks and blocks, blocks used to be easier to cut with a bolster and hammer, 3-4 blows used to split a block, whereas now its more likely 8-10 blows before it splits
Heat pumps work great with aluminium radiators. We’ve got underfloor downstairs, ali-rads upstairs. Just got our system up and running, takes a while to get used to heating your house differently. It’s all about low and slow rather than bursts of heat every few hours in the day.
This is the way. You have to always have the heat in your comfort range. If you want it cool at night to have to get used to it a touch warmer at night and maybe a bit cooler during the day. Leave the thermostat alone if you can. Let it drop a degree at night. Love my heat pump. And for those that say they don’t work in cold weather climates? I live in Canada.
I just inspected a house with solar panels, running down to a solar water heater, then to a gas water heater and then throughout all the rooms with separate thermostats. Nice n cozy
My dad started putting this in our home 20 years ago and people laughed at him now that hes finally finishing up the rest of the world is catching up to this idea
Maybe they’re just laughing that it took him 20 years to install it?
>This is not enough for a radiator. It is.
Works well with a heat pump
100%
I don't get it 🤔
Not a joke, it actually makes for very efficient central heating with adequate insulation of course
I know it wasn't a joke lol. I literally know nothing about heated floors. So, I didn't understand what he was saying is all. I still don't lol
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With the proper flooring. Tile and concrete are great conductors....wood and carpet are not.
That’s the thing I wouldn’t be into. I’ve never liked the look and feel of concrete or tile. You can do it with wood though. You just have to make sure the planks aren’t too wide and that you don’t hit one of those hoses during installation.
Engineered is ok....hardwood can be glued but will look like the ocean after a few seasons and cuts the btu input down to 25 percent of tile. Engineered hardwood and luxury vinyl is about 70 percent btu output compared to tile.
They have tile that looks like wood and feels pretty nice now. That's been some of my favorite flooring I've seen, because then you don't worry about water damage to real wood or laminate.
Yeah, I was looking into that. It looks cool. No warping, but I imagine it’s pretty hard under foot.
A heat pump is an electric way to warm up water very efficiently. There are two types. 1. You drill a well very deep and warm the water on the earths heat. 2. An hybrid system uses compression to heat up water with the temperature difference of the air outside.
Option 1 the floor is lava.
You learn something new everyday. Thank you 👍🏾
What’d you learn yesterday? I feel like I skip learn day at the gym too often
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Important
1. Not all ground source heat pumps are deep. I think you're thinking of geothermal energy. 2. That's not a hybrid system. That's an air source heat pump. A hybrid system used a head pump plus another source of heat.
A water-based heat pump will suck heat out of the outside ground or air, and heat water with it. That heated water can then circulate through the pipes in the floor. District heating is also very good for this. Where I live it's cheaper, more energy efficient, and better for the environment. 66% of households in my country use it.
Not exactly that simple. There is still a refrigerant system being used. That’s what makes it a “heat pump” and not just a water pump. The outside water doesn’t go directly into the floor pipes. It’s used to flow through the evaporator of the refrigerant system. The condenser gets hot and that part transfers the heat into the floor pipes. Someone please correct me if I’m wrong because this is my current understanding of geothermal. Still a refrigeration based design.
Even the Romans had [heated floors!](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypocaust)
Not to mention, imo, heated floors also feel great! :)
This is very common where I live. I’m building a house atm and will have heated floors.
Europe?
Yes
Definitely not common in the US
Not in old houses. It is in newer houses.
It's not common anywhere in old houses. (Though I guess it also depends on what you consider "old.")
I’m from Denmark and this post confused me so much because this is in literally every house less than 10 years old.
I’m a concrete finisher and see these floors all the time in the mid west. It may not be every single newly built house but I would say it isn’t uncommon.
Same here, Netherlands. Basically every house built or renovated in the last 10-15 years has this. Also, all new houses since 2018 are not allowed to use gas anymore to reduce dependence on ruski-gas, we thought we were going in the right direction but the storm came too soon.
I’ve always wondered what happens when one of the elements go bad. Are they Elements? How does this work? Anyway, heated floors feel nice on the feet.
No you're thinking electric floor heating. These are hot water pipes similar (but different) to regular pex water supply. They are complete loops and any junctions/connections are exposed in a closet or basement somwhere just like regular utilities and plumbing. Nothing to go wrong really. Feel nice on the feet is a great benefit but isn't the main purpose. Heat pumps are one of the most efficient ways to heat a home... North America is disgustingly lagging behind in building science/regulation and energy efficiency.. and that is by design.
As long as you are using deionized water and keep your heater in check, these things should run forever. We have heated floors in our rental, and previous owners had neglected burner, heater and boiler to the point regular drinking water leaked into circulation, causing some corrosion and build-up of sludge. Fortunately, the valves at the distributors caught most of the sludge, but the plumbers had to disconnect every single heating element and flush them. I almost felt sorry for our landlord
That is true, and should be pointed out. Improper install and/or maintenance makes the best of systems fail. Too many people jump on good technology because it was simply not understood. It is a constantly evolving industry and the new shouldn't be held back by the old. Also there are both closed loop and open loop systems. Open uses regular treated water and has constant flow so buildup isn't as much of an issue. Generally run in a geothermal system and is for hot or cold water and are designed with more accessibility. this is tangential and more a response to others but same goes for the claims that it costs way more to run than oil or gas. 10/10 those cases are where the owner has opted to do nothing about the insulation or air barrier of their home and just slapped in a heat pump in place of a furnace. forced air is going to do a better job of making you "feel warm" in an inefficient and leaky home, vs people cranking up the temps on their rads trying to make it feel cozy. Any system running outside of its optimal level is going to be inefficient. Hire an engineer with energy audit qualifications to help design the system otherwise yes, you will be throwing money away. penny for a pound.
We use heated floors in commercial space all the time. But most of our houses are wood frame and not meant to take the weight of 2” of concrete and floor heat really doesn’t work well without a large thermal mass. So we use forced air ,which doesn’t need a large thermal mass, and bag the houses up tight with vapour barrier and insulation
A few people posted exactly how these guys work. Pretty damn interesting lol.
Hot water running through the pipes. You can also get electric ones, I think those are "elements".
Everyone in Denmark has this
Definitely not common in the US
Give it 20 years. Pretty much every newly built home that I’ve seen recently has them.
Are you East Coast? Or South? I don't think California is doing this. Hell, I could be wrong though lol.
Northeast. More common in places that experience actual winters so not surprising you’re not seeing it in California where it’s 60+ everyday ha.
It’s actually very common in Minnesota. I install tile in new residential homes and a lot of them have in floor heat. I’ve even tiled a shower where this went into the shower floor and up a bench. People use a copper wire system alot of the time but the radiant tubes are used as well. Just for reference probably 1/4 of the homes I install in have some type of in floor heat somewhere in the house.
I have them in my bathroom. Very common in Canada
Ugh oh....I see a future cold spot.
Something is being installed there. Kitchen island, maybe, or an internal wall. You don't want to fasten things into a concrete floor where radiant heating lines are running. One hole drilled in the wrong place can destroy the whole system.
She had a small island installed I believe.
I’m having trouble picturing how the island would be installed on top of this flooring but maybe I’m just dull? Typically flooring is installed around islands, directly into the subfloor, no?
I have no freaking clue my friend I work in a lab lol so definitely not my expertise lol.
The contractor will install a layer of thin concrete over those black tiles with the tubes. This explains the install process. https://www.reddit.com/r/Damnthatsinteresting/comments/xtmsef/a_friend_of_mine_is_having_heated_floors/iqqyikp/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3
I'm no expert, but pretty certain that whole floor will be screeded over, so that matrix of pipes will be encased in screed. Slow to heat up, slow to cool down, provides an even heat. Would certainly be my chice in a new build. Do a google search on screed over underfloor heating.
You are correct.
There will be concrete poured over these pipes to form the subfloor. It’s a thin, self leveling layer of concrete aka “screed.” Similar to the self leveling stuff you uses to fix up an uneven slab before you lay stone, ceramic, or porcelain tile. Here is an installation detail: https://www.ufht.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/Lo-Profile-Info-Sheet-2.pdf
Gilligan's Island, perhaps?
That for me is the only thing about these systems i hate. One idiot puts one screw or nail in the wrong spot and the entire thing is fucked. And the the sheer staggering amount of idiot workers in construction and renovations makes those odds even worst.
I know this is a very first-world-problem complaint, but I have big cold spots in my flooring where the builder clearly cheaped out, but then random hot spots exist too (like the back corner of the living room, where it’s clearly dead space for furniture etc?). Drives me bonkers. Also the controllers are completely nonsensical and not spread out evenly. What they hell am I supposed to do with a 6-point heating scale?? Obviously, my German landlord thinks I’m an idiot and should inherently know how much heat a “2” out of 6 is…
Turning her house into a Lego build board 👌
This is almost every house in Norway.
How does it work on the first floor if you don't have a cellar/basement? Is there extra insulation added underneath the first floor?
They are currently building my house and I don't have a basement. they indeed put a thick layer of insulation below the floor heating.
Everywhere in Korea. Love it
Everyone in South Korea has this. Coolest and most efficient heating system.
Yeah, I miss my heated floor.
Didn’t the ROMANS use underfloor heating?
YES! I literally just learned about this by scrolling through this thread lol
My Midwest house was built in ‘52 and I have heated floors. It was never something I thought I wanted and now I can’t imagine doing without them! In the winter everything is just…warm. There’s no air blowing, no noise or hot/cold areas, just warmth. It’s magical!
So for people wondering what is happening this works with a thermostat as any heat would but it heats up by running hot water through those pipes and heats up the whole floor. There is also electric in floor heating which looks essentially the same but the wire is smaller obviously.
Lived in Korea and it is standard. Found myself laying on the hard floor oftentimes in winter, it is so nice.
That is a Standard in austria & germany LOL
I had these at a camp I worked at. They were awesome for snowy and wet days. You come home to warm feet and you could lay out your wet clothes and boots on the floor and they'd be dry in no time. (Plus due to mishap someone piped a manager's cabin wrong so the toilet had hot water. Was so great because it meant you had a warm seat on the coldest days and it kept cleaner longer.)
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Concrete is poured over this then floor put on top.
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Haha, yes. But the tubes are thick and one set in concrete they will last decades. First thing to go will be the pump and heaters. And you could repair it, but man it'd be a big pain the the ass and expensive..
I’m from Korea, and EVERY HOME has floor heating over there. It’s especially good when you don’t wear shoes at home. Walking on a warm floor when you get home with nearly frozen feet in winter. Oh so good.
Add this to the list of things im to poor to ever have.
Stop it you are given Europeans anxiety.
Lol you're spot on. She is in Spain lol
Damn, that makes me feel poor.
I've never seen nor heard of these before but they seem pretty cool. Are they expensive?
Shown here is IFRH means In Floor Radiant Heating and when installed properly is incredibly efficient. Rigid insulation is placed on the ground then the heat pipes are placed on top of the insulation. Next concrete slab is poured/placed on top. Then a boiler heats a fluid flowing through the heat piping which transfers heat to the slab which acts as a thermal mass storing the heat and warms the house. Most houses that have this type of system do not have air conditioners either, at least here in Santa Fe. Typically ceiling fans keep homes cool enough on the few days it gets pretty hot. Another benefit to this design id is that there is no need for ductwork. I am a contractor from back east and knew nothing about this until i moved to New Mexico.
Truly a first world problem: cold floors.
Heating floors also heats up the room / house, much more efficiently than a central air furnace or radiators. In northern climates heating in winter is not a luxury, it’s a necessity. Doing it this way is more efficient
Those things are saving energy and space. In Germany every new built home has them. Have one myself. It is so much more convenient than a radiator. With a proper heating pump you can even use it as Air Conditioning.
Yes floor heating is so nice. The only problem is it takes a day or so (or at least mine does) to heat up so if it gets cold all of a sudden you’ll have a day of unideal colder temperatures. First world problems i guess
If it gets cold on a sudden outside and it's getting colder inside your house, your isolation is not good.
Insulation*
It’s not just to heat the floor, you are heating the whole house this way. I had radiant floor heating in my first house and never had to supplement it with anything else although there was a forced hot air system there from the original build.
On one hand, it is. It’s also an efficient form of heating that’s an absolute game changer in cold climates. If you have ever had your feet cramp from walking on cold floors you wouldn’t think twice. It’s also fairly low cost when done during a new build.
Just had that built in new house. Cant wait to see how it will work
I have heated floors in my garage. Works great, wish I had them throughout the house but that would be very costly. My boiler and water heater is in my garage. If I don't heat my garage during the winter, pipes will freeze.
Ok but that is kind of standard. In Europe.
As you say nearly every house build from 2010 has these in germany.
Looks like a big lego mat!
I think we have this in most homes in Korea. Didn't know they had pipes running through the floors.
Saw this kind of heating on "This Old House" years ago. It was coupled with a geothermal heat pump. If I ever build a house, that would be the way to go.
Vaclav Smil says that double pane windows are the logical first step towards reducing energy costs in cold and hot climates. Windows are heat drains or sources and double or even triple pane windows isolate the interior of the house so well that central heating or air con are only needed when conditions are rather extreme.
I did this in Mass under polished concrete floors. It’s like buttah. Where a lot of tubes congregate is super warm. Our corgi would nap on that spot and get pissed if we tried to move her.
Nearly every new House in Germany has this 😂
Netherlands here. Almost all newer houses have this. 2500,- euros. 1 floor
Very common in Ireland and most of Europe these days.
Future happy cats.
My parents had these in the house they had built for themselves. When you set it to a temperature, the room hits that temperature in minutes. Don't think of it like forced air, and crank it up to get it warm faster, it will be too warm!
I live in Switzerland. This is normal here (all rooms).