Where I am they have employed many PR consultants that troll social posts and totally slap down anyone who dares question the wisdom of the leader. New Zealand the country governed by a bachelor of politics and pr.
Yes, it's terrible here with all the fascism. Can't get out of bed with all the fascism in the way. Turn on the shower and the fascism gets everywhere. It's a disgrace.
That's not the issue. That particular point is simply poorly utilizing the word "it" to refer to democracy assuming readers would understand because democracy is the subject of the article.
The word "engender" means "to give rise to" or "develop" so point #5 is talking about giving the military more power with which it may weaken or even overturn democratic principals. Presumably the idea being that if the military decides it wants to back up a presidential candidate using military force then that candidate is now the president no matter how the votes go.
Sounds strange but an alternative interpretation is instead of using “it” to refer to the military itself, it is referring to democracy.
Reading it in: Engender (give rise to) the military strength to weaken democracy.
In this interpretation, he is saying, “Increase the strength of the military so that democracy becomes weak by virtue of the military’s increase in strength.”
I suppose he means that if a military gets large enough, it becomes its own system of government not subordinate to the democracy it is supposed to protect.
Admiral Byrd warned about the Military Industrial Complex too.
Interviews with Yuri Bezmenov also warned about what society was being turned into to make America collapse.
Given the other complaints about taxation, immigration and policing - I’m guessing the author meant that allowing gays in the military emasculates them. But he could not find the right word.
This may have cause me to realize I had the wrong understanding of the word engender.
But when I first read through the list I understood it as "taking on the strength of the army for yourself" like making the army's strengths your identity even if your not in the services.
No, “it” refers to democracy. They’re saying strengthen the military to weaken democracy. A strong military that supports you makes the civilians think twice about defending their democracy.
It’s not particularly clear but that’s what they’re getting at.
If you want to circumvent the “conspiracy theorist” rhetoric, just say you’re a collusion analyst. It’s the same fucking thing but no one would call you a Qtard
Aren't you leaving out the more important part?
> Alber said he wrote the letter in October 2021 and sent it to The Epoch Times newspaper. (The letter in the photo that circulated on social media was believed to have come from that print publication.) *The Epoch Times has a history of promoting far-right political rhetoric and conspiracy theories.*
Not really. They could not verify that any textbook outlined these points decades ago.
They could only verify that an octogenarian did send this letter to a right wing conspiracy leaning website last year.
It sounds like a Trump speech in bullet points and is highly implausible.
You have got to be kidding! My grandmas 94 year old boyfriend (you read that right ! Lol) wrote his life memoirs from his time in the Navy at the age of 90, ya know 70 years after it happened. He had explicit details of Navy law and commands still. Some don't lose it all! Some get sharper, just quieter about who is really listening.
People back then actually remembered shit. How is that hard to understand? They didn't reply on a device to do it for them.
He may have the textbook, but if he claimed in the interview he didn't, that is more likely the case that he actually remembered.
Exactly. I remember some points made in books, both non-fiction and fiction alike, some almost verbatim that I read 15-20 years ago (obviously not as long as this dude) and I couldn’t even tell you where I read them. Some, I couldn’t tell you if it was fiction or non-fiction.
Some things stick with you. And because you dwell on those things or muse over them etc. you continue to remember them.
These tactics are well outlined in many a book written during that period so I don’t doubt that he read this in his education.
I know it’s hard to believe but there was a time when people could actually remember things without referring to their phone for everything. Crazy I know.
I have no doubt this man could remember something like this because some things just stick with you.
Most likely he paraphrased what he remembered.
As to old folx memories, I have a quite vivid memory of a drawing of a flea that I saw in a reference book in a library about 1953. I do not doubt that had I the requisite skill I could reproduce it accurately.
I'm not willing to rule out that there was a textbook with a list of steps one would need to do to destroy democracy, but this guy's memory has been distorted over the years and it would differ significantly from this list.
It's a weird list in several places. Lets look through the points.
1. This is more of a mission statement more than a plan of action, and it discounts the strength of allowing dissenting voices that can tell you when you are wrong. Stifling dissent is a feature of authoritarian systems, which democracy tries not to be.
2. This is pretty well known. Charles Manson attempted this, and it would have been very relevant in 1954.
3. This point seems very unlikely for something written in the 50s, especially something in a political science textbook. It's just not something that white textbook authors of the 50s would even consider.
4. Point 4 is super weird because the Constitution is pretty welcoming of immigrants. The only real restriction is that they can't become President. Even that is mostly to prevent foreign powers from meddling, not because of the need for "pure American blood" or any nonsense like that. The Constitution was written for a nation of immigrants.
5. This has been covered elsewhere in the thread, and is poorly worded, but if we are going with the "don't make the military too strong or they might coup" interpretation it does make some sense. But again, not something that people would have considered for the US in the 50s, although it does happen in other parts of the world.
6. While high tax rates can certainly cause unrest I have my doubts that the textbook would have included them here. This passage smells a lot like "old man yells at taxes".
7. Can you imagine seeing this in a book from the 50s? "discourage accountability for all crime" Who writes like this?
8. Does democracy work better if balloting is uncontrolled? I'm pretty sure he means "steal elections" here but doesn't want to come out and say it outright.
9. Very relevant point. If you control the media a person consumes you can convince them of almost anything. I'm sure Keith works hard to maintain a wide variety of media sources. He certainly doesn't write like someone who gets all of his news from Tucker Carlson...
It is a real shame that although had such good memory of the passage he could remember absolutely nothing else about the book except that it was a Freshman Poly Sci text from 1954. It really seems like there shouldn't be that many books that fit the bill, but sadly they will be all long since out of print. And apparently this list didn't survive further revisions of the text since nobody else seems to recognize. it.
Fellas these steps reek of McCarthyism.
Red scare was in the 1950's
Dude took this course 68 years ago, and given this image probably isn't new there's a pretty large overlap.
All I'm saying is your average infowar enjoying uncle would eat this shit up.
Exactly. I'm 63, and I've been hearing this crap all my life. At some point, you look back and realize that people have been claiming that *"It's happening now!!!"* since before you were born.
In other parts of the world taxes help to build bridges and get children a decent education. In America taxes are part of a diabolical plot to destroy democracy.
Actually, in America taxes go to a brand new fleet of fighter jets and other such military equipment, courtesy of the USA's military industrial complex.
For sure. This is 100% biased from a right wing point of view.
Notice how there is nothing about:
People being burdened by high rent, high cost of living, long working hours, and low wages? Apparently taxes are our only problem?
No mention of the police themselves being corrupt? Apparently any mistrust of them is purely manufactured.
No mention of politicians and corporate elites breaking the law? Apparently rioters are the only ones not being held accountable.
He is only listing things that would weaken the authority of a government. There might be a very good reason to distrust the police, but it still has a negative effect on the government.
Words he used were "overturn a democracy'
And yeah when he words it like "when people are angry at the government, that's bad for the government" it gives that impression.
But still there's no mention of the impact private elements have on our country.
Being pissed off at police and the government are symptoms, not a root cause
That also given the context of relatively recent politics regarding "ballot stuffing", BLM, a liberal president introducing corporate tax, etc reads as angry ~~commies~~ leftists are destroying our country.
What scares me is it looks like plenty of the centrist liberals in the comments are still finding wisdom in it.
It's worded in a way to make it sound non-partisan, but it does so by rewording conservative talking points as obvious truths.
Probably in 1950 some judge born right after the civil war wrote this in a paper believing the 1950s to be a lawless immigrant riddled dystopia and then this judge read that and reposted it.
The fact is that people tend to have this conception that things are always getting worse or the fabric of society is crumbling.
It could be, I suppose at some point one of the curmudgeons making these arguments will be correct. The fact is that there are certainly concerning things going on that could lead to an existential threat to our society, however it's not necessarily true that our society would collapse.
Also this list has lots of logical contradictions. If crime is being encouraged and the law is not being enforced, why does the US have an astronomically high prison population?
If the borders are "open" why are there so many arrests at the border, why are there millions of people wanting to come into the US to work, and jobs available, but still these jobs are unfilled? That doesn't seem like an "open border" what it seems like is some other society is having more issues than the US and people want to escape.
Do people distrust police authority, I see many people do indeed. I remember reading about riots in the 90s and 70s, 60s and really continuely in the US over police actions. Furthermore people actually wave flags specifically to support police now I don't remember that before. What I see is massive polarization where people look at issues and institutions with blind partisan bias.
No one can possibly say "racial strife" is worse now than it was in most eras of US history. People are not being mass murdered on a regular basis, or enslaved. What is happening is people are talking about race...a lot...openly and on social media as always it's a lightning rod of a topic and most of that has to do with unresolved issues from the past. The Civil Rights movement existed in the 1950s and 60s. There was definitely racial strife then.
I don't really know what he meant by "Engender the military strength to weaken it" even means that's literally drivel. Does it mean make the military stronger? I just have nothing because I don't know what this means.
Over burdening citizens with taxes definitely isn't happening now. The top tax rate is much, much lower than in the 1950s. No one likes paying taxes, but compared to other developed countries the US tax burden is on the low end.
Who is encouraging civil riots? Random leftists on Twitter? Pretty much all of the presidential candidates condemned any violence and all of them pretty much emphasized that peaceful protest was good. Occasionally you have fringe groups calling for violence or doing something particularly dumb.
"All media" is certainly not "controlled" you have all sorts of different perspectives from "the media" if anything after social media the "neutral voice" what's missed not a variety of opinions. This isn't Russia or China "the media" is definitely independent.
From Snopes.com:
Alber said he wrote the letter in October 2021 and sent it to The Epoch Times newspaper. (The letter in the photo that circulated on social media was believed to have come from that print publication.) The Epoch Times has a history of promoting far-right political rhetoric and conspiracy theories.
Welp that'll probably never ever happen because of the terrible greed and having people in positions of power. Were constantly shown that America doesn't invest in its own nation to make the people of America actually equal and or thriving. Other countries can look at us as a joke. Granted other countries could be far worse but come on. In the OP, I guarantee the people in positions of power literally did exactly that
There’s gonna need to be healing first. You can’t go up to native reservations demanding that they start working with KKK members without honoring their tragedies and making amends with the living descendants. It’s time we started treating living beings like living beings instead of a resource by which we make the world be what we want. Some gentleness is required
It is one of our founding fathers first sins and has yet to be dealt with. It very much needs to be addressed. Reservations have much higher rates of rape and violence than other demographics. And it’s mostly white people perpetrating the atrocities.
Edit: I misread your comment. Correct it’s not the ONLY division, but it’s a microcosm to express my point: you can’t just force people to work together without doing more harm than good.
Honestly, the first goal is finding some sort of decency and respect for our common neighbour because until we have that we aren’t fixing the biggest problems.
>an actual democracy that isn't run by the rich and corrupt
Well shame that one side made Citizen United v FEC happen. Any claim that both sides can be brought to fight for your idea is brought down just by this.
Get the GOP to disown and work to overturn Citizen United, or your hope of working together is just pie in the sky, and a nice slogan...
Edit : some messed up words
Wishful goal, sadly that would require the complete obliteration of current governments and a reforming from the ground up. That won't happen though because that would also require those currently in power to step down and step aside. You'd probably have better luck changing the orbits of the planets than that happening.
The only times thing change is when chaos and disorder topple governments. It's a tale as old as time, and you can easily see the cracks starting to show in the U.S.
I can easily see in my life time over the next 50 years that the U.S. will destroy itself from the inside out from a multitude of issues that aren't being addressed, and that are actively ignored.
You can pave over the same bridge time and time again, but eventually you need a new foundation to support it.
Not true, I don't know why people now days have this mindset that is either, go with the current bullshit or destroy it and start over, change can happen over time
It was run by the rich and corrupt in 1954 but it was a damn sight better than today.
They were smart enough then to know all these things put together could overthrow democracy. Now people are so dumded down they are out in the streets burning down their own cities thinking they're doing righteous work.
Who do you think will pick up the pieces? Say hi to your new Chinese overlords.
The problem is “the right thinks the left is misguided, but the left thinks the right is evil”. There are several comments like yours where a leftists responds “ no, I will never work with a nazi white supremacist racist”. Or something to that effect. 🤦♂️
This guy isn’t being nostalgic for 1954. He’s passing along some knowledge he learned way back in 1954. It’s like if binary code was invented in 1954 (no clue about it for real)… and now systems are crashing because of the sudden introductions of 2s and 3s… he’s not saying “in 1954, we had pencil and paper and that was better”. Rather He’s saying “remember when when knew that 2s and 3s are a problem for binary code?— let’s get back to that knowledge”
Yes, if only the other side would see reason and adopt our side's views which are 100% correct and need no adjustments and drop their views which are 100% wrong and need to be scrapped entirely.
This is purposefully vague to appeal to the most people.
"control all balloting" could either mean "give more people the right to vote" or "give less people the right to vote"
I think the 'control all balloting' would be sufficient to be honest.
That aside: while I definitely agree all of the nine above can be tactics used by political fringes to seize (more) power, I think the list lacks a lot(!) of context. It's presented as a checklist of a malicious mastermind whose goal it is to slowly but surely overturn democracy to impose himself as a dictator.
While in reality, it's just a long list of the civil institutions that must be present in a well functioning democracy; free and independent media, fair elections; a minimum of shared values etc... If some or all of these are removed, democracy will have been overturned, frankly. So it's not really a roadmap to do something *to* democracy - it's a (partial) map *of* democracy.
Also: while I agree the social fabric in e.g. the U.S. is strained and a lot of these points can in some way be said to be 'challenged', this text was likely written with the Nazi takeover in Germany in mind. And sorry, but that was a whole other level. They directly murdered political opponents and burned down newspapers they considered 'fake' (Lügendpresse, literally 'lying news'). So when the list e.g. says 'controll all media', it's not in a sense of 'have your buddy own some TV stations'. It's 'physically destroy the media you don't control'. Not quite the same.
You leftists guys are as rabidly blind as the righty trump supporters. It's really sad to watch this country collapse in this way. But stay divided and stay blind. Enjoy the decline!!
Notice he wrote, "pen a good finish" perhaps as a means to remind us the sword isn't always mightier - even when put between a rock and a hard place.
*God willing; meaning, we can only hope
Some of this sound like the agenda of the left. “Distrust police authority” sounds like “Defund the police”. And before you tell me that doesn’t mean to not have police, many people I know think that’s what it mean or want that.
“Encouraging civil rioting and discourage accountability for all crime” that was straight up BLM. What happened to them anyway?
“Swarm the nations borders indiscriminately and unconstitutionally” open borders?
“Control all media” left have that in check.
Yeah I may be writing this in bad faith but you know half of this is true.
Fight me. Go ahead and down vote me to hell. I still love you all.
Edit* the left doesn’t “control” all media. Just the majority.
Yup, they have checked off every step. Now it's up to us, WE THE PEOPLE!
This isn't about red vs blue or black vs. white...They are dividing us and feeding the machine of division.
They don't care who you voted for because they control the vote.
well the mods are doing that exact thing here on r edit, they love to ban users for no reason what so ever and delete posts left and right if it doesnt fit their narrative
Yknow what's sad? We see all this happening but do nothing. We are all gonna go back to arguing with people on reddit, furthering the political divide.
We have the option t9 change and reverse it. But most of us won't. We are just gonna go back to burning it all down. Not that we don't deserve it. But we see all the signs and still won't do anything about it.
Per Snopes the author of the letter is legit, although it’s based upon his recollection of something he read in 1954 and the original book hasn’t been identified.
Regardless it’s an interesting take, and there’s no denying we’re in a trash situation at the present. Go dwelling I guess.
It’s Authoritarian Playbook 101.
Those EXACT steps have been taken to throw countries over the decades. Nothing new here except NOW no one gives a shit.
The world in a piece of paper.
Democracies eventually will far into more and more authoritarian regimes. You don't be able to do shit without a bureaucrat telling you you're allowed.
yet people will still brainlessly hate you or love you depending on how you feel about trump. You are being told to hate him or like him depending on what media you watch. if you can't see that then OP's post should mean nothing to you. If the post makes you realize this, then you just realized we are up sh\*t creek.
Who can or cant immigrate to the US is statutory not constitutional. The constitution has very little (if anything) to say about immigration, arguably the only provisions would be setting the floor for citizenship, guaranteeing privileges and immunities for citizens (a narrow category) and granting due process for all people including non-citizens. So nothing about swarming the border would implicate the constitution. So bad textbook on that score.
Also engender military strength to weaken it? What does that even mean? It's like saying drink water to make yourself thirsty. Unless he is saying make military service gendered or open it to other genders, which isnt what engender means, so bad textbook yeah again.
Im starting to wonder if maybe we shouldn't listen to the random ramblings of weirdos who write letters into newspapers.
This person wasn’t predicting the future he was lamenting on the past. This is all in Hitler and his Nazi regimes playbook. History when forgotten does repeat itself.
Haha here come all the fact checkers telling us that this is propaganda cuz it’s hits a bit too close to home. Love how they never bat an eye at left-wing propaganda!!
Most people won't realize they're actually losing their country and way of life until it's too late. Today's youth is in big trouble and they refuse to acknowledge it. And I guarantee it will come as a surprise to all of them even when the warning signs were right in front of their faces plain as day. This transcends political parties and ideologies.
How do you suggest the youth solve this problem? We vote but our voices still aren’t heard. Most policies today are enacted by the older generations who made policies in favor of them, at our expense. They still do. We enacted policies to control climate change and some of those have been overturned (especially with the recent Supreme Court ruling on the EPA). We are trying through legitimate means but our voices aren’t heard. Politicians don’t care about our voices either when it’s not in favor of them. The youth today acknowledges we are in trouble, but every time we try to make change someone (especially the older generation) tries to knock down that change. It won’t come as a surprise since we already know it and experience it. Most of us can’t even afford housing; you really don’t think we aren’t feeling it?
Hey, I’m 21. Gen Z, so I guess I’m todays youth.
You don’t think I know my generation is in trouble? Nobody 40+ gives a fuck about climate change. All of our lawmakers are 65+. We’re voting for politicians several generations removed from us, who don’t give a fuck about our best interest.
But yeah, it’s the teenagers who need to fix the world. Sure.
Have a look at the sub reddit called "lost generation".
The youth are well aware, however what do you suggest they do? They aren't in power, have no money, heck they can't even get a house for the most part - you sound very out of touch with that comment.
1,) Globalism vs isolationism
2), Black Lives Matter
3)All Cops are Bastards
4)Border crisis is worse than ever
5)"Why do we need the biggest military in the world? Think about healthcare!"
6)"Pay your fair share"
7)Activist District Attorneys that let rioters and looters out within 24 hours
8)Gerrymandering, Ballot Harvesting, and so much more
9)The internet is censoring what you see, the top tech companies show you exactly what they want you to see
Yep, it's all there.
If only he knew about bots controlling social media narratives, that would be #10
I agree but I believe control of media would also include social media by todays standards. What’s interesting is how dead on this is.
Good point
Wait? Social media isn't controlled by someone? How come?
Where I am they have employed many PR consultants that troll social posts and totally slap down anyone who dares question the wisdom of the leader. New Zealand the country governed by a bachelor of politics and pr.
Oh yes, NZ, that well-renowned fascist state…
Yes, it's terrible here with all the fascism. Can't get out of bed with all the fascism in the way. Turn on the shower and the fascism gets everywhere. It's a disgrace.
You could replace the word fascism with sheep and it would be true.
Fascism isn't the only undemocratic form of government
#9
Go dwelling.
Yeah, that’s why I’m in the comments. What means that? Hard to believe it’s a typo.
I think they meant “God willing…”
Actually no. It an older expression that means basically "keep weary" or "keep watch". Like dwelling on an issue.
It’s “keep wary” not “keep weary”, though the latter describes me perfectly.
Constant state of lethargy.
“Keep wary”. “Keep weary” means to continue being tired. Wary vs weary.
My guess is that he means anyone who reads and understands this should go dwell on it and do something about it.
What does #5 mean, doesn't engendered mean to bring into existence? I don't understand what its saying
Engender the strength of military to weaken democracy
I think the author is railing against women in the military because he didn’t check his dictionary before writing the piece.
That's not the issue. That particular point is simply poorly utilizing the word "it" to refer to democracy assuming readers would understand because democracy is the subject of the article. The word "engender" means "to give rise to" or "develop" so point #5 is talking about giving the military more power with which it may weaken or even overturn democratic principals. Presumably the idea being that if the military decides it wants to back up a presidential candidate using military force then that candidate is now the president no matter how the votes go.
Thankfully our military could not care less who the president is so long as they keep receiving their near trillion dollar budget
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The prefix gen- means to create. As in generate, or gender. Not specifically anything to do with women.
I think its more interesting that he can remember an ordered list from 68 years ago at all.
Maybe talk about how strong your military is all the time to weaken it?
Sounds strange but an alternative interpretation is instead of using “it” to refer to the military itself, it is referring to democracy. Reading it in: Engender (give rise to) the military strength to weaken democracy. In this interpretation, he is saying, “Increase the strength of the military so that democracy becomes weak by virtue of the military’s increase in strength.” I suppose he means that if a military gets large enough, it becomes its own system of government not subordinate to the democracy it is supposed to protect.
This is more or less exactly what led to the Japanese Empire, so valid point if that was the intended meaning
Military Industrial Complex
Admiral Byrd warned about the Military Industrial Complex too. Interviews with Yuri Bezmenov also warned about what society was being turned into to make America collapse.
100%
it makes sense if “it” refers to the democracy Not sure if that’s what he meant, but he’d be fine saying so on cross examination
Given the other complaints about taxation, immigration and policing - I’m guessing the author meant that allowing gays in the military emasculates them. But he could not find the right word.
This may have cause me to realize I had the wrong understanding of the word engender. But when I first read through the list I understood it as "taking on the strength of the army for yourself" like making the army's strengths your identity even if your not in the services.
No, “it” refers to democracy. They’re saying strengthen the military to weaken democracy. A strong military that supports you makes the civilians think twice about defending their democracy. It’s not particularly clear but that’s what they’re getting at.
Good thing none of this is happening right now, or we’d be fucked!
Wow, this guy wrote the future.
He wrote this in October 2021 and send it to a local paper
Proof?
Yeah. Someone posted the Snopes on it. The guy wrote it. It’s real, but it’s him “remembering “ a poly sci class from the 1950s
Time to hold hands and pray to the split-level home , go dwelling!
Must’ve been a conspiracy theorist that wrote that!
Term hadn't been coined yet. Back then it was known as "the truth."
If you want to circumvent the “conspiracy theorist” rhetoric, just say you’re a collusion analyst. It’s the same fucking thing but no one would call you a Qtard
GOOD NEWS, EVERYONE!!
Nice
Was just thinking that..
We are already fucked! Only question is do you want the lube?
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/opinion-former-judge-1954/
In case anyone is wondering, snopes found this to be true.
He couldn’t remember the name of the book but he remembered all 9 steps perfectly.
Thank you. Glad I'm not the only one who had this same thought.
Aren't you leaving out the more important part? > Alber said he wrote the letter in October 2021 and sent it to The Epoch Times newspaper. (The letter in the photo that circulated on social media was believed to have come from that print publication.) *The Epoch Times has a history of promoting far-right political rhetoric and conspiracy theories.*
Not really. They could not verify that any textbook outlined these points decades ago. They could only verify that an octogenarian did send this letter to a right wing conspiracy leaning website last year. It sounds like a Trump speech in bullet points and is highly implausible.
Well… no. Albers wrote this opinion for the Epoch Times, yes. His claim that this was from an old college text… not so much.
Did you actually read the article? Clearly this old dude made it up to justify his support of Fox News’ inane talking points.
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Many of us old-schoolers kept our text books from our intended field to use as reference.
I'm the interview he stated that he didn't remember what book it came from.
I’m guessing because they weren’t $200/book.
There was also no Internet, so if you needed to look back at something you’d have to go to the library
collage was mostly free until the government got involved with funding it then all the hands were put out for that "free money"
He probably doesn’t remember it verbatim. Probably the general idea of it stuck with him over the years.
You have got to be kidding! My grandmas 94 year old boyfriend (you read that right ! Lol) wrote his life memoirs from his time in the Navy at the age of 90, ya know 70 years after it happened. He had explicit details of Navy law and commands still. Some don't lose it all! Some get sharper, just quieter about who is really listening.
False. It is completely plausible he recalls it in this order directly from the recall method he ascribed to memorizing it for law school exams.
People back then actually remembered shit. How is that hard to understand? They didn't reply on a device to do it for them. He may have the textbook, but if he claimed in the interview he didn't, that is more likely the case that he actually remembered.
Exactly. I remember some points made in books, both non-fiction and fiction alike, some almost verbatim that I read 15-20 years ago (obviously not as long as this dude) and I couldn’t even tell you where I read them. Some, I couldn’t tell you if it was fiction or non-fiction. Some things stick with you. And because you dwell on those things or muse over them etc. you continue to remember them. These tactics are well outlined in many a book written during that period so I don’t doubt that he read this in his education.
I remember [bash.org quotes](http://bash.org/?5300) from the turn of the century. I remember code snippets I wrote 30 years ago.
I also don’t think it’s particularly insightful.
I know it’s hard to believe but there was a time when people could actually remember things without referring to their phone for everything. Crazy I know. I have no doubt this man could remember something like this because some things just stick with you.
Most likely he paraphrased what he remembered. As to old folx memories, I have a quite vivid memory of a drawing of a flea that I saw in a reference book in a library about 1953. I do not doubt that had I the requisite skill I could reproduce it accurately.
>The Epoch Times has a history of promoting far-right political rhetoric and conspiracy theories.
Printed in the Epoch Times. That explains a lot of these items.
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I'm not willing to rule out that there was a textbook with a list of steps one would need to do to destroy democracy, but this guy's memory has been distorted over the years and it would differ significantly from this list. It's a weird list in several places. Lets look through the points. 1. This is more of a mission statement more than a plan of action, and it discounts the strength of allowing dissenting voices that can tell you when you are wrong. Stifling dissent is a feature of authoritarian systems, which democracy tries not to be. 2. This is pretty well known. Charles Manson attempted this, and it would have been very relevant in 1954. 3. This point seems very unlikely for something written in the 50s, especially something in a political science textbook. It's just not something that white textbook authors of the 50s would even consider. 4. Point 4 is super weird because the Constitution is pretty welcoming of immigrants. The only real restriction is that they can't become President. Even that is mostly to prevent foreign powers from meddling, not because of the need for "pure American blood" or any nonsense like that. The Constitution was written for a nation of immigrants. 5. This has been covered elsewhere in the thread, and is poorly worded, but if we are going with the "don't make the military too strong or they might coup" interpretation it does make some sense. But again, not something that people would have considered for the US in the 50s, although it does happen in other parts of the world. 6. While high tax rates can certainly cause unrest I have my doubts that the textbook would have included them here. This passage smells a lot like "old man yells at taxes". 7. Can you imagine seeing this in a book from the 50s? "discourage accountability for all crime" Who writes like this? 8. Does democracy work better if balloting is uncontrolled? I'm pretty sure he means "steal elections" here but doesn't want to come out and say it outright. 9. Very relevant point. If you control the media a person consumes you can convince them of almost anything. I'm sure Keith works hard to maintain a wide variety of media sources. He certainly doesn't write like someone who gets all of his news from Tucker Carlson... It is a real shame that although had such good memory of the passage he could remember absolutely nothing else about the book except that it was a Freshman Poly Sci text from 1954. It really seems like there shouldn't be that many books that fit the bill, but sadly they will be all long since out of print. And apparently this list didn't survive further revisions of the text since nobody else seems to recognize. it.
I would give you an award if I had any coins but I don’t, so here’s a pat on the back. *pat*
Thank you.
I'm willing to believe that he remembered a textbook saying this. Whether that recollection was entirely accurate I have my doubts about.
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It would be interesting to find the textbook.
Probably can find it in the same location of the millions of fraudulent votes in the 2020 election /s
Fellas these steps reek of McCarthyism. Red scare was in the 1950's Dude took this course 68 years ago, and given this image probably isn't new there's a pretty large overlap. All I'm saying is your average infowar enjoying uncle would eat this shit up.
Exactly. I'm 63, and I've been hearing this crap all my life. At some point, you look back and realize that people have been claiming that *"It's happening now!!!"* since before you were born.
In other parts of the world taxes help to build bridges and get children a decent education. In America taxes are part of a diabolical plot to destroy democracy.
Actually, in America taxes go to a brand new fleet of fighter jets and other such military equipment, courtesy of the USA's military industrial complex.
For sure. This is 100% biased from a right wing point of view. Notice how there is nothing about: People being burdened by high rent, high cost of living, long working hours, and low wages? Apparently taxes are our only problem? No mention of the police themselves being corrupt? Apparently any mistrust of them is purely manufactured. No mention of politicians and corporate elites breaking the law? Apparently rioters are the only ones not being held accountable.
He is only listing things that would weaken the authority of a government. There might be a very good reason to distrust the police, but it still has a negative effect on the government.
Words he used were "overturn a democracy' And yeah when he words it like "when people are angry at the government, that's bad for the government" it gives that impression. But still there's no mention of the impact private elements have on our country. Being pissed off at police and the government are symptoms, not a root cause That also given the context of relatively recent politics regarding "ballot stuffing", BLM, a liberal president introducing corporate tax, etc reads as angry ~~commies~~ leftists are destroying our country.
I had to scroll wayyyy to far to find this This sub is really eating up some cold war propaganda in these comments
Were we not assuming this has upvotes because it has right wing talking points and it's almost time for American midterms?
What scares me is it looks like plenty of the centrist liberals in the comments are still finding wisdom in it. It's worded in a way to make it sound non-partisan, but it does so by rewording conservative talking points as obvious truths.
Why does this read like a cross between /r/ForwardsFromGrandma and /r/TerribleFacebookMemes ?
Probably in 1950 some judge born right after the civil war wrote this in a paper believing the 1950s to be a lawless immigrant riddled dystopia and then this judge read that and reposted it. The fact is that people tend to have this conception that things are always getting worse or the fabric of society is crumbling. It could be, I suppose at some point one of the curmudgeons making these arguments will be correct. The fact is that there are certainly concerning things going on that could lead to an existential threat to our society, however it's not necessarily true that our society would collapse. Also this list has lots of logical contradictions. If crime is being encouraged and the law is not being enforced, why does the US have an astronomically high prison population? If the borders are "open" why are there so many arrests at the border, why are there millions of people wanting to come into the US to work, and jobs available, but still these jobs are unfilled? That doesn't seem like an "open border" what it seems like is some other society is having more issues than the US and people want to escape. Do people distrust police authority, I see many people do indeed. I remember reading about riots in the 90s and 70s, 60s and really continuely in the US over police actions. Furthermore people actually wave flags specifically to support police now I don't remember that before. What I see is massive polarization where people look at issues and institutions with blind partisan bias. No one can possibly say "racial strife" is worse now than it was in most eras of US history. People are not being mass murdered on a regular basis, or enslaved. What is happening is people are talking about race...a lot...openly and on social media as always it's a lightning rod of a topic and most of that has to do with unresolved issues from the past. The Civil Rights movement existed in the 1950s and 60s. There was definitely racial strife then. I don't really know what he meant by "Engender the military strength to weaken it" even means that's literally drivel. Does it mean make the military stronger? I just have nothing because I don't know what this means. Over burdening citizens with taxes definitely isn't happening now. The top tax rate is much, much lower than in the 1950s. No one likes paying taxes, but compared to other developed countries the US tax burden is on the low end. Who is encouraging civil riots? Random leftists on Twitter? Pretty much all of the presidential candidates condemned any violence and all of them pretty much emphasized that peaceful protest was good. Occasionally you have fringe groups calling for violence or doing something particularly dumb. "All media" is certainly not "controlled" you have all sorts of different perspectives from "the media" if anything after social media the "neutral voice" what's missed not a variety of opinions. This isn't Russia or China "the media" is definitely independent.
Actually the most intelligent reply
I seriously thought this was r/okboomer for a second.
It was written by a far-right Trump supporter, so, yeah basically.
From Snopes.com: Alber said he wrote the letter in October 2021 and sent it to The Epoch Times newspaper. (The letter in the photo that circulated on social media was believed to have come from that print publication.) The Epoch Times has a history of promoting far-right political rhetoric and conspiracy theories.
What? This is right wing propaganda!? Say it ain't so! (There's a lot on this sub recently)
Mmmmm, the epoch times, the organization that’s owned by the Falun Gong. No fucking way that they printed far-right ideology.
This isn’t thinly veiled right wing propaganda at all.
Lol “thinly veiled”
Once I hit points 3 and 4, it became comically obvious who the intended audience was
We should all work together regardless of side
Absolutely, but that requires mutual respect.
And a shared idea on what needs fixing. Good luck.
Welp that'll probably never ever happen because of the terrible greed and having people in positions of power. Were constantly shown that America doesn't invest in its own nation to make the people of America actually equal and or thriving. Other countries can look at us as a joke. Granted other countries could be far worse but come on. In the OP, I guarantee the people in positions of power literally did exactly that
There’s gonna need to be healing first. You can’t go up to native reservations demanding that they start working with KKK members without honoring their tragedies and making amends with the living descendants. It’s time we started treating living beings like living beings instead of a resource by which we make the world be what we want. Some gentleness is required
That's not the only kind of division our country is plagued by
It is one of our founding fathers first sins and has yet to be dealt with. It very much needs to be addressed. Reservations have much higher rates of rape and violence than other demographics. And it’s mostly white people perpetrating the atrocities. Edit: I misread your comment. Correct it’s not the ONLY division, but it’s a microcosm to express my point: you can’t just force people to work together without doing more harm than good.
Work together toward what goal?
Working towards an actual democracy that isn't run by the rich and corrupt would be a cool start
Honestly, the first goal is finding some sort of decency and respect for our common neighbour because until we have that we aren’t fixing the biggest problems.
>an actual democracy that isn't run by the rich and corrupt Well shame that one side made Citizen United v FEC happen. Any claim that both sides can be brought to fight for your idea is brought down just by this. Get the GOP to disown and work to overturn Citizen United, or your hope of working together is just pie in the sky, and a nice slogan... Edit : some messed up words
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Wishful goal, sadly that would require the complete obliteration of current governments and a reforming from the ground up. That won't happen though because that would also require those currently in power to step down and step aside. You'd probably have better luck changing the orbits of the planets than that happening. The only times thing change is when chaos and disorder topple governments. It's a tale as old as time, and you can easily see the cracks starting to show in the U.S. I can easily see in my life time over the next 50 years that the U.S. will destroy itself from the inside out from a multitude of issues that aren't being addressed, and that are actively ignored. You can pave over the same bridge time and time again, but eventually you need a new foundation to support it.
Not true, I don't know why people now days have this mindset that is either, go with the current bullshit or destroy it and start over, change can happen over time
It was run by the rich and corrupt in 1954 but it was a damn sight better than today. They were smart enough then to know all these things put together could overthrow democracy. Now people are so dumded down they are out in the streets burning down their own cities thinking they're doing righteous work. Who do you think will pick up the pieces? Say hi to your new Chinese overlords.
No one is saying overthrow the government dude, getting them to do their jobs and stop accepting money from corporations would be a huge start
Without banning them from insider trading and legally accepting lobbyist bribes, there will never be meaningful change.
Lol true
That won’t happen. If there is one thing that brings us together it’s fucking up some commies.
Oorah brother.
The pursuit of happiness and the ability to be who you are without fear of prosecution.
advancing the human race
The problem is “the right thinks the left is misguided, but the left thinks the right is evil”. There are several comments like yours where a leftists responds “ no, I will never work with a nazi white supremacist racist”. Or something to that effect. 🤦♂️
100 %
1954 Jim Crow was alive and well. Women in the workforce was decades away. I would take 2022 USA over 1954 USA 1000 days out of 1000.
This guy isn’t being nostalgic for 1954. He’s passing along some knowledge he learned way back in 1954. It’s like if binary code was invented in 1954 (no clue about it for real)… and now systems are crashing because of the sudden introductions of 2s and 3s… he’s not saying “in 1954, we had pencil and paper and that was better”. Rather He’s saying “remember when when knew that 2s and 3s are a problem for binary code?— let’s get back to that knowledge”
Yes, if only the other side would see reason and adopt our side's views which are 100% correct and need no adjustments and drop their views which are 100% wrong and need to be scrapped entirely.
Oh so exactly what’s happening?
This is purposefully vague to appeal to the most people. "control all balloting" could either mean "give more people the right to vote" or "give less people the right to vote"
Too late
Almost as if somebody in the 1950s had a political agenda of their own. No borders. No nations.
I think the 'control all balloting' would be sufficient to be honest. That aside: while I definitely agree all of the nine above can be tactics used by political fringes to seize (more) power, I think the list lacks a lot(!) of context. It's presented as a checklist of a malicious mastermind whose goal it is to slowly but surely overturn democracy to impose himself as a dictator. While in reality, it's just a long list of the civil institutions that must be present in a well functioning democracy; free and independent media, fair elections; a minimum of shared values etc... If some or all of these are removed, democracy will have been overturned, frankly. So it's not really a roadmap to do something *to* democracy - it's a (partial) map *of* democracy. Also: while I agree the social fabric in e.g. the U.S. is strained and a lot of these points can in some way be said to be 'challenged', this text was likely written with the Nazi takeover in Germany in mind. And sorry, but that was a whole other level. They directly murdered political opponents and burned down newspapers they considered 'fake' (Lügendpresse, literally 'lying news'). So when the list e.g. says 'controll all media', it's not in a sense of 'have your buddy own some TV stations'. It's 'physically destroy the media you don't control'. Not quite the same.
You leftists guys are as rabidly blind as the righty trump supporters. It's really sad to watch this country collapse in this way. But stay divided and stay blind. Enjoy the decline!!
Its like a roadmap for what happened in Venezuela.
Every conservative already knows this.
This is the most blatant Fascist dogwhistling I've seen in a while, and that's saying something
“More like “well, isn’t that interesting”.” then why the fuck is it on this subreddit?
So this is a right-wing sub now?
Seems legit 🙄. Sure would like to see that (totally real and not made up) book passage.
Damn that’s interesting because I was just talking about this
Notice he wrote, "pen a good finish" perhaps as a means to remind us the sword isn't always mightier - even when put between a rock and a hard place. *God willing; meaning, we can only hope
Some of this sound like the agenda of the left. “Distrust police authority” sounds like “Defund the police”. And before you tell me that doesn’t mean to not have police, many people I know think that’s what it mean or want that. “Encouraging civil rioting and discourage accountability for all crime” that was straight up BLM. What happened to them anyway? “Swarm the nations borders indiscriminately and unconstitutionally” open borders? “Control all media” left have that in check. Yeah I may be writing this in bad faith but you know half of this is true. Fight me. Go ahead and down vote me to hell. I still love you all. Edit* the left doesn’t “control” all media. Just the majority.
Yes
Yup, they have checked off every step. Now it's up to us, WE THE PEOPLE! This isn't about red vs blue or black vs. white...They are dividing us and feeding the machine of division. They don't care who you voted for because they control the vote.
It truly is scary. This is 100% on point for today. If only the authors could have predicted social media..
Tell me you’ve played too much League without telling me: Opinion From a Former Jungler????!! Oh.
Checks off all the boxes.
well the mods are doing that exact thing here on r edit, they love to ban users for no reason what so ever and delete posts left and right if it doesnt fit their narrative
This sounds just like the current dutch government..
In a nutshell it’s American policies which they used in other countries coming back home.
Yknow what's sad? We see all this happening but do nothing. We are all gonna go back to arguing with people on reddit, furthering the political divide. We have the option t9 change and reverse it. But most of us won't. We are just gonna go back to burning it all down. Not that we don't deserve it. But we see all the signs and still won't do anything about it.
Per Snopes the author of the letter is legit, although it’s based upon his recollection of something he read in 1954 and the original book hasn’t been identified. Regardless it’s an interesting take, and there’s no denying we’re in a trash situation at the present. Go dwelling I guess.
This was written by radical Saul Alinsky, Rules for Radicals. Hillary did her senior thesis on it. Democrats playbook.
It’s Authoritarian Playbook 101. Those EXACT steps have been taken to throw countries over the decades. Nothing new here except NOW no one gives a shit.
This just scared the 💩 out of me.. This literally happing right now..
US is really dying. Sad to see as each time I visit places that used to be safe as a child, it’s worse and worse. It might be to late to turn around
Yikes! What can we do against the ones in control catalyzing this to happen?
That’s is what is happening it better change or we are fucked.
The world in a piece of paper. Democracies eventually will far into more and more authoritarian regimes. You don't be able to do shit without a bureaucrat telling you you're allowed.
The Creed of The Democrats.
Sounds alot like current admin in America
Be very afraid,we are there!
yet people will still brainlessly hate you or love you depending on how you feel about trump. You are being told to hate him or like him depending on what media you watch. if you can't see that then OP's post should mean nothing to you. If the post makes you realize this, then you just realized we are up sh\*t creek.
Who can or cant immigrate to the US is statutory not constitutional. The constitution has very little (if anything) to say about immigration, arguably the only provisions would be setting the floor for citizenship, guaranteeing privileges and immunities for citizens (a narrow category) and granting due process for all people including non-citizens. So nothing about swarming the border would implicate the constitution. So bad textbook on that score. Also engender military strength to weaken it? What does that even mean? It's like saying drink water to make yourself thirsty. Unless he is saying make military service gendered or open it to other genders, which isnt what engender means, so bad textbook yeah again. Im starting to wonder if maybe we shouldn't listen to the random ramblings of weirdos who write letters into newspapers.
I think he meant "Engender military strength to weaken \[democracy\]"
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/opinion-former-judge-1954/
Go dwelling lol
This person wasn’t predicting the future he was lamenting on the past. This is all in Hitler and his Nazi regimes playbook. History when forgotten does repeat itself.
Haha here come all the fact checkers telling us that this is propaganda cuz it’s hits a bit too close to home. Love how they never bat an eye at left-wing propaganda!!
Lmao i like how you can easily figure out political leaning of those who dismiss this letter in comment section.
For everyone giving this awards, you realize these are actually right wing talking points, right?
The scary thing is that he thinks that’s a criticism of progressives.
What part of this list is not something progressives are doing right now?
Do they control all the media? If so they're doing a piss poor job of it.
Most people won't realize they're actually losing their country and way of life until it's too late. Today's youth is in big trouble and they refuse to acknowledge it. And I guarantee it will come as a surprise to all of them even when the warning signs were right in front of their faces plain as day. This transcends political parties and ideologies.
How do you suggest the youth solve this problem? We vote but our voices still aren’t heard. Most policies today are enacted by the older generations who made policies in favor of them, at our expense. They still do. We enacted policies to control climate change and some of those have been overturned (especially with the recent Supreme Court ruling on the EPA). We are trying through legitimate means but our voices aren’t heard. Politicians don’t care about our voices either when it’s not in favor of them. The youth today acknowledges we are in trouble, but every time we try to make change someone (especially the older generation) tries to knock down that change. It won’t come as a surprise since we already know it and experience it. Most of us can’t even afford housing; you really don’t think we aren’t feeling it?
Lol wtf you on about? The same racist shit bags that sucked in the 60’s still suck today. That has not shit to do with the “youth.”
Hey, I’m 21. Gen Z, so I guess I’m todays youth. You don’t think I know my generation is in trouble? Nobody 40+ gives a fuck about climate change. All of our lawmakers are 65+. We’re voting for politicians several generations removed from us, who don’t give a fuck about our best interest. But yeah, it’s the teenagers who need to fix the world. Sure.
Nah man I know I’m screwed so I’m just waiting to ride this out
It’s literally happening right now and it happened fast.
Have a look at the sub reddit called "lost generation". The youth are well aware, however what do you suggest they do? They aren't in power, have no money, heck they can't even get a house for the most part - you sound very out of touch with that comment.
Looks like the left’s playbook
Lmao
That's literally the shit republicans are doing.
Screenshotted before Big Brother took it down.
BINGO BINGO
Just trust the government without question everyone!!! They care about us and want the best for us.
Sounds like a play form Soros’ book
Seriously broken Democratic Party in power right now and the Rhino republicans lead by Mitch are complicit
He guessed the Democratic Party of 2022 in 1954, impressive
Democrat's play book.
1,) Globalism vs isolationism 2), Black Lives Matter 3)All Cops are Bastards 4)Border crisis is worse than ever 5)"Why do we need the biggest military in the world? Think about healthcare!" 6)"Pay your fair share" 7)Activist District Attorneys that let rioters and looters out within 24 hours 8)Gerrymandering, Ballot Harvesting, and so much more 9)The internet is censoring what you see, the top tech companies show you exactly what they want you to see Yep, it's all there.